Episode 274 - Can The Automotive Service Industry Be Saved? With Cecil Bullard and Wayne Marshall

0:00For years, the automotive industry has been plagued with the perception of shady business practices, greedy owners, and incompetent technicians. It's time we flip the script. Good clap, David. I'm very proud of you. I don't know if you know this, but this is not a standard podcast, David. We started this podcast in order to bring everyone together to have the tough conversations everyone's been avoiding.

0:32Instead of endless complaining and pointing out the problems, we seek to get everything out in the open and look for real solutions. To do that, we bring on industry experts, vendors that are changing the game, multi-million dollar shop owners, as well as those that are struggling every single day to pay the bills, and everything in between. We're not professional podcasters pretending to know how it is.

0:56We're in the trenches every single day trying to pay the bills and hopefully achieving some success. So if you're tired of overly polished scripted conversations, it's time to tune in to the Changing the Industry podcast. Lucas and I are proud to partner with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence as a means to help shops, whether they're getting off the ground, hiring their first technician, or looking to pass along their business to a new generation.

1:29So jump down to the show notes and check the link in the description, which will take you to their events page. The Institute is committed to bringing world-class training to shops all over the country, including their leadership intensive, their MARS intensive, and the service advisor 3-day intensive. Some of these events take place all over the country. So jump down to the show notes, click the link, find an event near you, and experience world-class training unlike anything else you've seen.

2:03And now on to the episode. Now, maybe we don't have the right training of our techs. Maybe we need to be doing more there too. But so that's, that's what you sit there and you start wondering about. Talking about— we good? Yeah, you like? Um, are you in focus? That's the big question. Are we both in focus? We can talk about— we announced our new holding company yesterday.

2:27Oh, nice. Well, we will talk. Gear Group Holdings is now the owner of the Institute and a lot of other things too. Will be, will be soon. So, uh, let's start on certification. Okay. Okay. I got a text message yesterday. Okay. Or licensing. I think this is really interesting. Let me go back and find it here for you. And I will just read to you this message.

2:56And I hope that he's not going to get mad at me for sharing this, but I think it is very interesting. This is somebody in the know. Like this is somebody who has the answers. And it says, let's see here, "Dude, do I have a story for you. The short version is," and today was the, let's start with this, today was the Maryland hearing on a bill requiring technicians to license for ADAS calibrations.

3:30The short version is, that this bill that was about licensing all technicians in the state of Maryland to perform ADAS repairs was bombarded by NADA. The sponsoring senator in the introduction walked back the requirement for dealerships to comply, citing pressure from the industry. It was lobbying theater, but just another example of how changing our profession and making improvements of any kind are stifled by those with the deepest pockets.

3:59Pockets. And so the dealerships came in and went to NADA and said, hey, Maryland's going to have this bill that actually makes sure that our technicians are proficient and qualified to do the job. And NADA said, no, no, no, no, no, we can't have that. We don't want that because that could cost us money. Now, there's a lot of hate, right? There's a lot of frustration on this discussion of licensing right now.

4:24There's some who really want licensing and some that really hate licensing. I'm not going to disagree with David. I think that the problem is, is that there is licensing in some areas already. But it's not enforced. Right. Okay. So that becomes the other issue. In Canada, it's not enforced? No, not really. I work with many shops in Canada and I have for years and years.

4:50And most of them will have a tech that's Canadian trained, whatever the program is. Okay. But some of them don't. And they use that training often from the one guy to have other guys that are not trained. It's not, it's not an enforceable system at this point. Like I do with the dealerships where I want the one guy to take the test for everybody in there.

5:14Well, right. You got the one master tech and then you got the other part changers. You know, the dealerships, if you go back, I don't know, 20 years, maybe 25, the dealerships, if you were going to work for a dealership, you were going to become a master BMW tech or a master Mercedes tech or whatever. And then they said, wait a minute, we could save money if we only had one master tech and we had 7 C-techs or whatever.

5:39Right. And so now the master tech will do all the hard stuff and the C-techs will. And, and That has proliferated into what we have today, and the dealerships are empty, and they're complaining about how they can't get techs to fill the bays that they've created. And but what if we really were still making master techs? What if we required master techs?

6:04What if we required a certain proficiency from our technicians to come in the industry and be in the industry? Okay, so here's the thing. We just had an episode with Ash Kaplan who does the remote service advising, and we got into the EOS discussion, right? Really interesting. Please don't go touching power cords. The last time Wayne was on, you effed everything up and turned it off.

6:28We went blank. I remember that. I remember it too. At that episode, it was like, oh, jeez. We're talking about EOS and we're talking about accountability. Right. And one of the big issues is, is we're not holding people accountable. Right. Well, well, okay. And I'll just play the devil's advocate. Is it our job to hold the industry accountable? And by the way, who gets to decide what accountable is?

6:59Right. Okay. Because that's the— and what does it mean to the consumer? That's always the argument. And oh, by the way, it's probably going to drive prices up. So my, I'm going to have to pay more for my kid's car. Um, but, but hold up here for a minute, right? How many shops, let me just ask you, how many shops have you had to dang near yell and scream at because that technician's turning 4 hours a day and they won't say anything about it?

7:22The biggest problem in automotive business, if I think you and I had this discussion at one point, for me is that they really don't understand the business numbers and the business financials. So they, they don't know how the machine works, right? So if I'm going to work on an engine, I understand, uh, hydraulics, I understand mechanical, I understand air-fuel mixtures and all that kind of stuff, because I have to understand those things in order to make an engine run the way it's supposed to, etc.

7:51We have a bunch of people with a great big engine that —that is literally their life's engine—that have no idea about the systems of that engine and how it works. Right, for sure. Okay, now a part of that is productivity and whether or not you have productive technicians. Right. So frankly, the average productivity, the last number I saw, and there was a number out like 2 weeks ago, PartsTech ran, and there's some numbers in there I just can't believe.

8:21They actually show the, the labor rates have come down from their last one. Do what? Yeah, the, the number was like 110, and then last one was 126 or something. So, uh, the average labor rate. So check it, check it. Okay, I'm going to call BS on that. Yeah, I don't, I don't agree with that necessarily. And, and whenever you're doing surveys, surveys are, are funky anyway.

8:45The data is not It's not necessarily good data. Yeah, but there I didn't see a productivity thing in there from them. But the last time I saw something, it's about 70%, 72%. So they don't even know how to manage or measure productivity. They're not measuring it. I had a guy yesterday, one of our clients yesterday, I said, we need to— We all know that shop management software is an absolute requirement to properly run a profitable auto repair shop.

9:13And I could come here and tell you that there are thousands of reasons to choose shopware over any other option, be it the world-class analytics, the amazing people behind the product, the fact that the product is so fast, it's easy to use, it's easy to learn. You can onboard people overnight into this product and have them working. It has world-class record-keeping. But see, that's not the reason.

9:34The reason that I want you to choose Shopware is because it differentiates you from all of the other shops in town. It creates a world-class experience for your consumer that was built for the consumer. It's something they're used to. It's very much like any other checkout process you can find online. And now they can even get the same financing that they can in other shops online right here from Shopware.

9:57So I'm going to encourage you, go into the show notes, click on the Shopware link, and get your free demo today. At least put a whiteboard up because we're going to ask our technicians to do 8 hours a day and we need some record. You know, you can't manage what you can't measure, so we need some kind of measurement. He goes, oh, there's no room for a whiteboard in, in the shop.

10:15And I'm like You're kidding me, right? Well, what if we created a spreadsheet that we just printed every day and handed to them? Here's what you did, right? Right. Well, yeah, well, but then I'd have to print it every day. Well, it's like, don't you understand that if your techs are doing 3 hours, you're— I've got a guy that pays, you know, he's got a tech, uh, he pays $18 an hour for Then you throw the load in, right?

10:44So now he's $22 an hour. Yeah. And then the guy is 16% productive. Yeah. Okay, so do that math. So now you're paying this guy $100 an hour or close for every hour that you actually sell. That is actually working. And your posted rate is $130, $140, but your effective labor rate's like $112. Right. So now you're making $12 on an hour because not because you're paying the guy too much, because really you're not paying him very much, right?

11:14But because he doesn't have any productivity and the guy can't figure out why he's broke all the time. Yeah. And you, you have a tech that you're paying $100 an hour who's a terrible tech. I, I walked in and I, I said this in the last podcast, I walked in on a conversation between David and, and I don't want to get all the way away from licensing conversations.

11:37But I walked in and David's talking about how he's talking to Liz Perkins and he was saying, like, I understand that you want to treat your techs really well. I understand you want to really do a good job for them and make sure that they're taken care of. But I also am going to tell you that you have to have something to motivate them because I have tried to treat them really well and it's done nothing but bit me in the ass.

12:00Right. And so I'm not a flat rate proponent. I don't like flat rate. I think flat rate's bad. And I think it's killed this industry because I think it's made people do things that are negative for our industry. Right. They've sold things they shouldn't have sold. They've been driven so hard. If it's just base flat rate, they don't get paid any other way.

12:17Right. They've done things that are unethical to get a paycheck. How do we blend that then? If, if there's no motivation, it's like, well, I give my guy 40 hours a week every single week and it starts at this. And if he's comfortable, Guess what? Production does decline. How do we navigate that? Well, same thing about motivating to get licensed. I haven't built a flat rate pay plan in 10 years.

12:43Right. And I have not built a salary or hourly pay plan in 10 years. You build blended pay plans. You have to have motivation. It's one of the rules, you know? Yeah. So in my world, Everything has rules. Like, we're gonna do pay plans. Well, I wanna pay enough for showing up that you're gonna wanna show up. And so that if I say, hey, would you help somebody push a car in?

13:10You're not thinking, well, I'm not getting paid for this, so I don't wanna help the people around me. We gotta build a team. Automotive service is a team sport, right? Yeah. And so you build a blended plan and you want about 60% of the pay to go to the employee for showing up, and you want about 40% motivational. One of the rules is the motivation has to be enough.

13:33So when you look at someone who says, well, you know, yeah, I got a flat rate pay plan, and, you know, I pay my guys $20 an hour when they do 20 hours, and then if they do 25, I give them another $3, and if they do this, I can, you know— and you look at the difference between, you know, I got to put in the extra effort to get the pay And if it's a very small difference, they don't want to put in the extra effort.

13:55So you've got to constantly look at your pay plans. Are they— is there enough in there to motivate the employee? That's the rule. The rule is it has to be enough to motivate someone. And not everybody's motivated and driven. Not everybody's motivated. But, but it's also not about— you can't, you can't just go, well, here's your pay plan and that should motivate you.

14:13There has to be management, which, yeah, which in most businesses, and I don't mean I mean, this is what I do and this is what I'm working on. I must be horrible at it because in most businesses, the management is really the struggling part. Yeah. You have these conversations with shop owners and even in big groups at Vision, at STX, and you got 400 people in the room and you're having a conversation and they're going, well, yeah, I should have a pay plan that motivates and then that's it.

14:43And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. That's a part of it. The other part is what's the expectation? And if you're not meeting the expectation, what's the conversation? And what's the consequence, right? And how do you manage someone so that they understand what their job is and what they're supposed to do? We— the whole industry makes me insane. That's why I'm insane, folks.

15:10I beg to differ. There's a lot of reasons for that. Like, that's just one of the reasons he's here. One of the many. But on the other hand, it's very intriguing because how do you solve these problems, right? If they— Yeah. If the average person comes into our industry and they— I don't even think going to management school is the answer. You know, we get these kids out of these tech schools who are very knowledgeable.

15:36About how the car works and everything, but they can't fix a car because they don't have the experience, right? Yeah. So it's, it's always a blend of knowledge and experience that's going to make you good at whatever it is you decide to do. The thing, the thing I would say around all that, a motivation— either you have something inside you intrinsically or you don't.

15:58And as much as I can want it, we can want it for them, if they don't have something inside of them Is the percentage of those who are motivated going down, though? Part of it is there's been a lot of research written around loyalty, and we hear it all the time. I hear it from owners. He hears it from owners. And they'll sit there and say, well, employees aren't loyal anymore.

16:21And the first question I always ask, I said, well, what are you doing to create loyalty? Why should they be loyal to you? You got to be loyal to them. So if you're not doing X, Y, and Z to help build some loyalty and connection, then how do you ever expect them to reciprocate it back? And that's where all this starts to begin.

16:39And that's, you know, it's a team sport. And he's right. And we all have to come together and coalesce in ways that at the end of the day, we're going to make the business successful because we all want to grow and have a paycheck and so on and so forth. But I always start with, you know, you see it in those who just are, I hate to say it this way, they're just, they're lazy.

16:59And no matter how much financial incentive you give them, they're still going to be lazy. Yeah, you should be able to identify that though pretty early on. Exactly. I would argue very much to say that motivation is not going down. Okay. I would say that the different generations are motivated by different things. Correct. It's changing. We were motivated by paycheck. In my generation.

17:24You know, we were, we had it beat into us, whatever, you're gonna have a tough job, they're gonna, they're gonna treat you poorly. If you come, if you own a paycheck, that's your win, right? Yeah. But that's not the way it is today. There's a, there's a video, Ken Robinson, that I talk about sometimes. And he says something in there that stuck with me forever, as he said, you know, we told these kids that the dream was, is you'd go to college, you get a 4-year degree, and you get out and you get a good job.

17:52And that was promise. And he said, it turns out that that's not true. And it hasn't been true for a long time. No. And so we've promised them something. And so we've not followed through on the promise. And so we've kind of burnt some of them. So think about, think about this in terms of the automotive industry. Yeah. We, these kids and their parents spend $40,000, $50,000 to send them to WyoTech.

18:15Yeah. Tech school. Get their degree. And they, they're supposed to come out and get a good job. Yeah, and I think we all understand that when you first come out of something like that, you're going to be doing oil changes and you're going to be doing brakes and some other stuff, and it'll be a few years before you're like the master tech guy.

18:33Yeah, but most shops, most of our automotive businesses, when we're hiring somebody like that, we're, we're making them the oil change guy, or we're making the slave of the master tech at the shop. Yeah, I don't know how many shops I've had a, well, the master tech gets all the credit for all their hours. And so all they're doing is the grunt work for the master tech.

18:55And there's no motivation to move to the next level. And it kind of comes back to the same thing with how some of these guys are so jaded, right? Like they really have been burnt by the industry. They really have been done wrong. You know, you brought up one of the things about Cecil is Cecil really doesn't like the negative commentary on social media.

19:14Neither do I. And so one of the things about that is, is I've got a video. I listened to it this morning. I've not released it yet, but it's, it's about the fact that there are a lot of techs who jump in completely ill-informed and they're keyboard warriors, right? They just jump in and talk trash and they act like they know what they're talking about when they don't.

19:34They don't know the numbers. They don't understand how business works. Owners too. So it's in the industry. Yeah. In general. For sure. And so we— but, but there is that subset of them, that subset of technicians who have been given a promise that's not been honored, that's not been met. Right. And I think that unless we're willing to step up and try and make that right and extend an olive branch to a degree to start turning this around, but it takes networking and communication.

20:02It takes us working together to accomplish it. But whose responsibility is it? So, so that's the other piece of the pie, right? So I do a service advisor class and— or a manager class or whatever, and after every class there's a guy that comes up to me and says, you know, I want to do these things but my owner won't let me.

20:21Yeah, right. What do I do? Well, the owner paid for you to be in this class. I'm teaching the class. I got to be careful, right? I can't get a little— quit and go somewhere else where you can. Yeah, I mean, you could. Yeah, you could, but But realistically, if you're not getting what you need from where you are, is it up to the owner of the business or whoever, the manager, to determine what that is and offer you all of that?

20:46Or is it up to you to say, these are the things I need in order to be happy where I'm at? And then if the business can't give you that, isn't it up to you to say, I don't want to live here anymore? Yeah, I want to live somewhere else. Think about the— just the automotive industry. What if, right? What if we did have certification licensing?

21:06Yeah. And what if we did chase the bottom 15% out of the industry? And what if we made it more difficult for just anybody to open a shop out of their garage and start working on cars at $50 an hour, and we don't pay for parts and all of that, which a good third of the online internet right now is going, yeah, let's do that, right?

21:28You know? Yeah. And another third is saying, you guys are nuts, man. You're gonna— can't happen. So you'll destroy everything. But what if, right? Yeah. And then what if we could actually raise our labor rates, uh, so that we could pay a fair wage with a good bonus if you do what we need? And what if we actually determine what that was and we had good management built into our company so that we could get it done?

21:53Well, I can tell you it's been done. I have many companies that work for us that pay their people really well, exceptionally well. They have very happy employees and they have a very busy business, but they're not the people that go, well, we can't, right? We can't do that. We can't. You know what, um, the automotive industry people are so stupid that they cannot pass an ASC test.

22:18So, so, uh, or any test that we might give them. So we can't have testing. We can't have a program that qualifies people because automotive people are just too stupid. That is a perfect reel right there. I'm going to need you to cut that up into little pieces. It's ridiculous. You're right. You're right. It's ridiculous. And I had a good conversation with a guy who's really extremely frustrated with the automotive industry right now.

22:46Very mad, very upset. Feels like he's really been let down, was terminated from a position. He's very jaded right now. He's upset because I'm saying like, hey, listen, I'm not saying that I don't want certifications or licensing, but I am saying this is a long road. This is not, this is not going to happen. Hey y'all, Lucas here. It's story time. Over the past 6 months to a year, I've actually been working more and more in the family business.

23:09Now the family business is not an automotive business, it's a tourist attraction. And one of the things that was happening in that family business is we were doing all of the marketing internally, be it social media ads, be it Google, all of it. We were handling all of it, website building, the whole 9 yards. And here's the deal. It became very clear our marketing efforts were ineffective.

23:29Now we could see that we weren't getting return on investment. We could see that we weren't getting good conversions. And that's when we stepped in and hired someone. We hired a professional that knew what they were doing. And for the first time in years, our parking lot's full when it's typically empty. And that's why I'm gonna recommend you pick up the phone today and call Shop Marketing Pros or click the link down in the comments below because you shouldn't be learning how to do marketing.

23:52Your marketing machine should be working for you right here, right now, making sure your bays are full. So go into the link in the comments and click on the Shop Marketing Pros link for your free marketing analysis today. Overnight. This is— we don't start it. Yes, 100%. The end of the road. Yeah. We keep saying, well, it's going to take 10 years, going to take 15 years.

24:12Yeah, it is. If we do it right and if we do it fairly and if we, you know, create the way that it needs to be created. Yeah, it's going to take time. 100%. And it isn't fair to the guys that have come in and dedicated a lot who don't have the knowledge, haven't had the opportunity to have that knowledge. But if you put the knowledge in front of them and they're not willing to apply it, yep.

24:33Now again, whose responsibility is it? Is it possible the naysayers are the ones who wouldn't meet the standard? No, I don't— it's funny to me because I know some of the naysayers. You and I know them, yep, right? And some of them had podcasts and etc., and they're smart guys. They're not dummies. Um, So I don't, I don't think that maybe half the naysayers are the guys that think they can't do it.

24:56Yeah, we do have high instances of dyslexia in this industry, and we have high instances of ADHD. I have no proof. I, I have no tests that have been done that I can verify that with. So don't— I've got a verification. Don't go, I've got verification. Cecil's a liar. He said we have this and there's no proof. ADHD and become shop owner.

25:17Yeah, yeah. In my experience, a large percentage of the people that I work with, shop owners and tax, have ADHD. Okay. And there's a lot of dyslexic people that were pushed into this from my generation. Yeah, yeah. Uh, and from the, the next generation and the previous generation. I don't know further if they did that because most— many of the schools got rid of their programs.

25:41Yeah. But, but So what? How do we help those people qualify? How do we help those people be good businessmen? How, you know, because that's it. You know, when you run your shops right, both of you know that when you run your shops right, they make more money, you're able to pay more, you're able to create more happiness for everybody there and for your clients too.

26:04Um, Wayne, I'm going to ask you, do you I'm not going to go into why I have this question. You were from outside the industry in a lot of ways. Is it just me or does this industry seem a lot harder than in other industries? No. Okay. I see a lot of, you know, when I had and I did my other consulting work and coaching as I worked with CEOs, did some M&A stuff, the challenges that you see in this automotive space is very similar.

26:42There's certain aspects of running a business and how to put the pieces of the puzzle together that Cecil and I talk about. It doesn't make a difference if you are running this company or this company or this or this. They're all the same. There's just certain elements of that. And one of my sayings that now people repeat, when we look at accounting and everything, the math's got to math.

27:04Yeah, it's just got to work. And I don't care if it's in the automotive space, if you're a plumber or electrician or you're a small manufacturer or whatever, the math still got to math. There's just certain things that have to play out. Now, there are certain nuances and there are certain ratios and KPIs that we do look at that are different in the automotive space than in some other industries.

27:26Right. But at the end of the day, net operating and net income and other things and expenses and that are the same. So it really comes back to saying, okay, if we can sit here and look at this, what are some of the fundamentals or foundational elements that you got to put in place that lets you build and create a good business?

27:47And it's simple ratios that we start getting into that I know we talk about from a coaching standpoint all the time is, I mean, you start right out of the box. What are your cost of goods and services that are being done? What's your gross profit and what you're operating up? What are all your expenses down below? If all of a sudden your expenses are 40%, 43% and more, you're going to struggle when you look at where you're at in your top line on your revenue and the cost of goods and services.

28:15Those things stay true and it doesn't make a difference where you go. So if you don't know your numbers and we talk about it a lot, Cecil's done classes on it, we do at the institute, a lot of others do. If you don't even know your numbers, I don't care what business you're in, it's gonna be gonna struggle. Yeah. Well, so, all right, you open the hornet's nest.

28:37I guess I'll just ask about it. Cecil, your biggest pet peeve, the thing that really makes you angry and like I say it, I'm nervous about even talking about this, right? But like the thing that really pisses you off and gets you fired up is the fact that You've been doing this for this long. These other coaching companies have been doing this for this long.

29:00And the percentage of business owners that have been reached, the percentage of the industry that's been reached overall is very small. So as an industry, do we want to let other outside influences control us and our business? A lot. Okay, so, uh, one of the comments— you, you released a podcast we did. There were a lot of comments, you know, I've never seen a— I've never paid an electrician $400 an hour.

29:34Well, I got news for you, I have, and in Utah of all places. Okay, and I've never seen this, and, uh, they don't do this and they don't do that. All BS. I mean, really. Yeah. Okay, so And then someone in there said, well, you know, we really shouldn't think about this this way because, you know, look at the auto body. They're controlled by the insurance companies.

29:58Okay. Do we want that? No, we don't want the insurance company coming in and telling us we can only charge $65 an hour, $67, $68 an hour. I talked to an estimator 2 days ago who said, I'm done. I'm out. I'm ready to quit. I can't take this anymore because it's getting worse. Yeah, and, and so, and the insurance companies are, are, are putting more of a, a push on controlling all of that so they save money, so they can make money for their stockholders, and their CEO can make umpteen tens of billions of dollars a year, uh, etc., etc., while the public, the person that owns the car, is not getting a car that's

30:36fixed correctly. And ADAS, that— there's, there's some estimates that over 80% of ADAS cars that have had accidents The ADAS was not done correctly. So these cars aren't going to stop when they're supposed to. They're not going to do what they're supposed to. And they're on our roads today. And you want to know what? Our legal representatives, our government representatives, are pushing even more pressure on that because guess who they get their money from?

31:02Okay. And, and so it's going to get worse instead of better. And do we want them controlling us, or do we want to be in control of our lives? For me, it isn't, it isn't about money. I know some people would say, man, that guy's, he's only about money. It's about control. Okay. And if we don't do something and we don't get started, we don't get anywhere.

31:22It's really interesting you say that because there are a lot of other coaching companies who are working very hard to build a private equity system where they get a lot of shops under their umbrella and they come up with a way to make a lot of money. And so their, their, their focus is the money to get there. They're trying to get out, right?

31:47They're going to build up this private equity or venture capital deal and they're going to sell a lot of shops and they're, they're angling for that. Right. And it's obvious you just have to look at what's happening and, you know, that's what's happening. But I have heard people say Cecil's all about the money. I'm going to be honest with you here in the conversations that we've had.

32:05You aren't going in the direction that's all about the money. You're going in a direction that seems like, hey, I'm trying to save the industry. I'm trying to save the small guys, not the big guys. Do you know how much money I've invested in my business? Millions. I'm in, the company owes me money, and, you know, it's like, well, we need to do this, or I think we need to do this.

32:28Oh, okay, well. Let's go borrow some more money. Let's go put some more money in, right? You know, etc. If it was all about the money, I would have sold this thing before. Yeah, right. And don't get me wrong, there is a thought, you know, if you're a business owner and you're at my stage, right? Right. What, 85? By the way, I'm also— I'm not 84, 85.

32:52The Titanic. Remember, where were we on the Titanic? Yeah, he came over on the Titanic. He was one of the survivors. But, um, It's a private joke. But yeah, I'll explain to you when the cameras are off. No, I think you've already said it. So when you get to this point, you're saying to yourself, OK, what is my out? And you're dumb if you don't, right?

33:14I think if you don't plan and you don't say, I've got to have an out— and maybe the out is private equity is coming in and offering 3 times what I'm going to get from anywhere else. And I would be an idiot not to do that. I mean, that doesn't necessarily mean I'm only in it for the money, right? I mean, when you, when you get, I don't know, in your 60s, and neither of you guys are there yet, but when you get there and you, they, they, you know, you go in because you got a headache and they say, hey, you got a golf ball-sized tumor in your head, you start thinking a little

33:45differently than you might have thought a week before, right? And how, what if I do become a bumbling fooling, I have to have somebody wipe drool off of me. How am I going to pay? David already is, you know, etc. So, so, you know, the reason that I'm— I talk about the money is because there are so many shop owners, and by extension, just, just go on to the jaded mechanic and the other mechanic guy and the other one, and, and the, the shop is screwing me and we're not making money and they're not treating us right and It's everywhere, right?

34:19There's so many of— so much of that going on. And you know why that goes on? Why? Because we don't have any cojones. Because we're afraid to charge an extra $30 an hour, uh, because they're all going to leave us. Our clients will leave us if we charge— if we're not cheaper than the guy down the street. Screw that. Yeah, there'll always be somebody cheaper than you, right?

34:41Yep. We, we We should be $300 an hour today. There should not be a shop in the United States that's less than $300 an hour. We should have certification licensing that's reinforced. We should have an association like the, uh, the lawyers do. Yeah. Or the American Medical Association. Or the dealers have to pass or you don't go to work. Yep. All right.

35:05Why? Because that helps us control our industry. It helps us, it helps us be in control of our industry. The one thing that's going to retire you, take care of your family, the families of the people that work for you, uh, his family, etc. And control shouldn't be a bad word in that instance, right? Because it's us, it's the industry controlling itself.

35:28Yes, it's the industry regulating itself. So what would you rather do? Would you rather wait until ADAS is out and people start getting in accidents because wasn't fixed right, and now your state's going to pass a law. Yeah. And create the, the test that is going to chase some people away, and then they're not going to enforce it evenly because it's never happened anywhere.

35:50Right, right. You know why you can't be a lawyer if you don't pass the bar? It's the association that makes that happen, the Bar Association. Right. It's not the government necessarily. They created the laws that say you've got to pass the bar if you want to be a lawyer, right? Right. And we can do those same things. And it might be a 40-year project, and I might not be around for the end of it, but by God, I'm going to be here for the beginning of it, right?

36:19So how, how? Lay out the strategy. You got to gather, uh, you got to gather as many like-thinking people together as you can. Okay, uh, you got to control some of the messaging. Okay, and I'm not saying you got to lie to the public or lie to, lie to people or whatever, but the message has to get out that— and, and it has to be, this is beneficial to you.

36:43It's not an easy ride, but if you don't take this ride, the ride is— they're going to put you in a bus and bus you somewhere. Yeah. Would you— you You know, when you say that, right, like what I— you say control the messaging or control the narrative. It's not even for me about control. It's about having a narrative. I don't like having a message.

37:06I don't like the negative. You said that. I hate it. You know why? Because 90% of it's negative. Yeah. What if this is a great industry? What if 50 or 60% of it were positive? Do you realize that there are shop owners Technicians right now that work 40 hours a week make $100,000, $150,000, have 401s and IRAs and medical and dental and all that.

37:30There are shops that are actually getting this done, but it's not the bulk of our industry. And the minute you say that there are people who are doing it, there's a naysayer out there screaming. Well, yeah, they must be raping people. You kidding me? Oh, they're charging for parts. Well, that's— we shouldn't do that. Oh, give me a break. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

37:48Yeah, no, I mean, again, the math has to math. Yeah, right. And whether we do it with parts or labor or parts and labor or whatever, I don't care. Yeah, anymore I don't care. Yeah, 20 years ago I would have, I would have told you exactly you have to do this, this, and this. And by the way, I was right then, I'm right now.

38:08Okay, but I'm, I'm not so much you got to do it this way. I mean, I've met too many guys like David who say I don't want to do that. Okay, then how do we accomplish the same result? Yeah, and just do it a different way. I mean, if you don't want to charge for, um, uh, diet, don't charge for diet. You have the right to do that.

38:27You own the business. But understand that you're devaluing diagnostics, right, industry-wide. Yeah, right. Yeah, which hurts a lot of people in this industry, and believe it or not, it's hurting you whether you, uh, especially if you don't have a technician. But no, it's got a ripple effect that it, it hurts everybody. But stop. Start thinking about what other industry could you get in with a high school education, maybe, and end up within 15 years owning your own business and having the opportunity to build something that's worth millions of dollars, right?

39:02Where else does that happen? You know, Chris Enright released a video the other day, and he was talking about the fact that He was really frustrated. He was really bothered and aggravated by something that was happening. And he said, I see all of these guys leaving shops and they're leaving as technicians to start their own shop and they're doing the things that they left the other shop for.

39:20They are, you know, continuing this negativity in our industry. They're continuing to be the problem that is this industry. Well, you left to be different and you left because you didn't want to live that, but now you're forcing your people to live what it was you were under. They're saying they think the owner's making a ton of money and the owner isn't because we see the numbers.

39:39And then they think they can go and do it the same and better and make a lot of money cheaper. I'll just feel cheaper. Yeah. And then they realize that this is hard. Just because I was a good tech doesn't mean I'm a good business owner. Yeah. And then they, they get on the struggle bus similar to what, what they saw and observed with the past job they worked at.

39:57They start making the same bad decisions and they start making some of the same bad decisions. I don't begrudge those guys. No. You know, at the end of the day, Oh, God bless them for wanting to be done. Keep their expenses to nothing, you know what I'm saying? If they start out and it's like, I've got a scan tool and then the electricity and insurance and that's it.

40:16I don't pay for marketing, I'm not going to training, I'm not keeping up with equipment, I only work on 6 vehicles. You see what I'm saying? It's the ones that go, I want to expand, or I don't want to say no. And like, that was my fault. That was my Yeah, if I had learned early on to go, yeah, I can't do that because I don't have the equipment for it, and I'd been okay with that and just let the customer walk out the door, I would have been in such much better shape than I ended up being in.

40:46Yeah, because I would have learned very quickly that at the end of the day, like you said, the math has to math. Because if my expenses are low enough, doesn't really matter what the hell I charge because my revenue is going to be enough. Because I'm keeping artificially now. You don't want to end up being the guy that was arguing with us on keeping like any kind of software or, um, you're having insurance like, oh, I don't need all that.

41:11It's like, dude, you gotta have, you gotta have something. Well, it's amazing how many businesses we see who just run on cash and then pay— they got a guy, they pay cash, they do all these things. Yeah. And you're not really running a business. You are, but you're not. And you don't have any value when the time comes. And then there's— yeah, how do you value it?

41:28Because it's just— it's all cash and it's— but they have to be aware of that. But at the end of the day, like, if you're not— if you're not saving back enough money and the minute you get hurt, you're 52, you hurt your back, now you can't walk. We just had that happen. Yeah, we just had a guy who went and started his own shop, blew his knee out, hadn't been able to work in 6 weeks.

41:47He's like, dude, I don't have any money. And I thought y'all were full of shit when you were talking about disability and full of shit when you were talking about workers' comp or something just to have something. Yeah, he's like, now here I am, I've depleted all of my resources, I don't have anything and I can't work. And you know, I either got to sell my house, borrow money from my family or whatever just to survive so I can survive.

42:08Correct. Yeah. We have the wrong measurement in this automotive industry. Our measurement is on how busy we are, how many cars we have. Yeah, we propagate that in the media. Yeah. And it's not on whether or not how successful my business is financially., right? Yeah. And how much I work to get that done, right? And I don't care if you want to work 80 hours a week.

42:28I'm one of those kind of people. I like working. But, but are you financially successful or not? Yeah, right. There's a lot of liars out there too, man, that, that look like everything's well and good and beautiful and I've got 12 shops and blah blah blah, and they're in so deep. They're one bad month from being done. Well, I mean, that, that's— hey, Mike Allen said on this show the other day and was like, dude, I— you've seen my P&L.

42:51I don't have any money. I just act like I have money. I'm the same way, right? It's all cash flow, just cash flow. A few changes that— well, I mean, here's the— start charging for diag. Yeah, you know, I wouldn't, I wouldn't necessarily have an issue with licensing per se. It's if, like you're saying, if it was set up like the bar and we as an industry or as an association or something could elect the right people in there to then manage licensing, the testing.

43:22And it can't be about money, okay? It cannot be about an association that has testing that so they can make a bunch— so the, the white guys in charge— we're not supposed to throw ASC under the bus. That was not the purpose. I didn't say that. No, no, I didn't put that name out there. But it's the problem with ASC, even fundamentally, is that— because you're right, too many guys have dyslexia to my— I've seen the tech notes from some of these techs.

43:50Like, dude, I've seen them comment on Facebook, and you know Facebook has a button you can hit and it'll, it'll clean up your, your comment. Like, yes, it'll use correct spelling and some grammar. And just— it's almost every day that I hear shop owners talk about credit card processing and credit card processing fees. And I'm gonna tell you right now, if you're that worried, You're stepping over dollars to pick up pennies.

44:15What do I mean by that? When it comes to credit card processing, it's all about the service. It's all about the support and the great rates at the same time. And that is exactly why I use 360 Payments for all of my payment processing needs. They are the best payment processor in the automotive space. So don't wait. Go to the link in the show notes and get set up with 360 Payments.

44:41They're integrated with all of your favorite shop management softwares, and it makes your life so much easier. The period would be nice in there just so I can understand what the hell he's trying to say. So those are the guys that are not going to go run out and get AC testing. So it needs to be what McColls is pushing, which is practical testing.

45:02Like somebody has to show up and see everything. It's a combination. Oh really? We have the technical knowledge, We spend a lot on being certified, but not credentialized. Yeah. So we're sitting there saying, okay, I can— whoever, I'm not going to say names. I could go out, I could study, I could pass the test. That doesn't mean I can do the job.

45:26And I could say, but I'm now certified. Yeah. So somewhere it's got to start from, okay, I get the certification. You got to start somewhere. But eventually, just as you said, there's credentials that show you actually know what you're doing. Yeah. And you're actually being able to show it and demonstrate that I have subject matter. And you have a version of the new technology as well.

45:47Right. Which is going to have a cost to it. It is going to have a cost. But again, if we don't do it with the sophistication of the automobile and the way it's going, et cetera, the insurance companies want to come in here and control it and all that. It's going to happen. And we're idiots, frankly, and I'll put myself in the very same bucket with everybody else if we don't get a hold of this and get it going.

46:12We can make— we can have testing that would say, okay, you are dyslexic, great. Let's run this this way for you, right? Because all we really need to know is can you do the job? Not can you pass a test? And when you have certification, which we have in our industry, But, but for anybody that can pay and take the test will certify you doesn't mean you can do the job.

46:36That's correct. We're in the wrong place. I wouldn't even push back on can you do the job? It's do you have the right practices to do the job correctly? Because you may not be able to do XYZ job because you've never done it before, but you know, to look up service information, You know, so I'm doing an interview for a guy, um, for one of my owners.

47:01He's going to hire a shop foreman, and the guy's a Chevy guy, been a Chevy guy. And I'm like, you're a BMW Mercedes shop primarily. Yeah. And you're hiring a guy for shop foreman. So I'm interviewing the shop foreman, and I'm saying, what do you think about that, right? Do you— you know, he goes, look, I can read a book. I, I know where the information is.

47:21I know where the data is, and I might take a little longer but I've done these jobs. I've done, you know, timing chains on these, on different cars. I've done air conditioning on different cars. And, and, and that was a great answer for me. That's a perfect answer, right? Absolutely. And you wouldn't believe how many guys don't get that answer though, right?

47:39I know, they go sideways because it says Ford and not Chevy, and it's like, they're just timing chains, right? Yeah, right. And if you follow, if you follow the manual and you do it correctly the car's going to run fine. Back in the old days, um, Ford came out with their variable venturi carburetor. Nobody wanted to touch them. I went to— you know how much money I made doing variable venturi carburetors?

48:01And the cool thing about VVs was when you got the right tools and you adjusted them correctly on the bench, you put them on the car, you have to do nothing, right? They ran, they started, they were great. And, and we're in an industry where we're all going You know, I don't, I don't want to buy the tools. I don't want to do the thing to make sure that it runs great.

48:21We need this. Yeah, we need this at this point in time. We needed it 20 years ago. Well, so, so here we are. You know, Zeke Young said the other day, well, great. Like, when are we going to stop talking about making the industry better and when are we going to start doing it? Come join, not the institute. You don't have to pay us or anything, but we have a a group of, uh, a fairly large-sized group of vendors and people that are getting together to, uh, really move this forward.

48:53Okay, figure to try to figure it out. Come, come talk about participating and reach out to us. Yeah, part of that. Okay, I think the revenue model is entirely doable. The vendors can, can, they can just pay into it to support it because you end up with better shops. But this like you just go to the local municipalities and go, if the shop is going to open for business, they need to have this cert.

49:16They have this cert, they have to have technicians that are licensed by this board. Well, we have to— we also, we have to market just based on— I know, we also have to market to the public, uh, that we're no longer, um— it's got to mean something to the consumer. It doesn't mean anything to the consumer. Yeah, yeah, it's never going to stick and work.

49:35Think of simple thing of a barber, cosmetology, all are licensed. And when you go to the shop, you're looking for those things. The problem is that the average consumer assumes the shop is— they do— licensed, certified, blah, blah, blah, blah. They assume it. This is where we as independent shop owners don't talk enough about. We have techs who have gone to this schooling.

50:00They have this certifications. They have this. Credentials. We don't talk about it enough. Some of us do. Some do. But in a whole industry-wide, we don't do enough. And even with the service advisors, these guys, they're, you know, if you go to the doctor, you don't always see the doctor, but you might see a physician assistant. And you still trust that physician assistant.

50:28Who's kind of like the service advisor for the doctor. If there's a real problem, they're going to go talk to the doc. Yeah. Just as the service advisor is going to go talk to the tech. But we trust that person. We need to trust the service advisor. We don't do enough to talk even about that because they're the ones that start that journey.

50:47If we set up that licensing though, I'm just talking, if you set up one and you do it one shop, in that area to sign up for it. And this was— I mean, they're going to preach it loud and wide. So it becomes an immediate differentiator. So one of the, one of the things that makes our best shops best shops is they understand what their unique selling proposition is, and they're able to communicate that well to their clients, potential clients.

51:15It's probably one of the biggest differentiators. Um, we have whole businesses in our industry around pricing that are price comparison tools, etc., because everybody thinks that's what the public wants. We have— tell me one business that says they have the best technicians, they have the fewest comebacks, they have the, you know, all the right equipment, they've done this job successfully, you know, 8,000 times, blah blah blah, and By the way, they're moderately priced.

51:49Okay? Tell me one business that does that. Nobody. And you would think, okay, well, let's see, AAA kind of maybe did that 35 years ago. They were thinking AAA shops were a little better, a little different, and they kind of marketed that. That went away from AAA in the last 20 years. That's completely disappeared. Yeah, I don't know what it— what does it mean to be a AAA shop today?

52:11Shops sign up for it because they get those. Yeah. Right, but, but I mean, it used to— but it did, it used to mean something. But what's it mean today? People in your business, you want people who want to maintain their car so they're never towed, right? What, what kind of clients you want? So I don't know, we, we need to— we can go around, it's a very long— it's a, it's not a long conversation.

52:34I am so tired of talking about it. Yeah, we need to get doing it. And so I'm moving forward. I'm 64 going on 85. That's right. That's right. And I don't have a lot of time left and I'm done talking. We're doing, right? Okay. So how do we make it stick? What's the next step and how do we actually get it to stick to where you're actually at the board?

53:01We have to, yeah, we have to, we have an initial start of that. Yeah. Okay. And you're on the board, Lucas. Yeah. When I don't show up to meetings, like, you didn't show up to the meeting, and he's on the board. That happens. This is not the first time. It's like the old saying. I may want to point out that I sent him a message going, hey, this is going on.

53:23And he's like, yeah, I'm not going to be able to make it. I'm like— Craig O'Neill is actually also on the board, and I don't think he knows it yet. It's the old saying, you know, if nominated, I won't run. If elected, I won't serve. Sorry, you don't have a choice. Back to that is we have to, um, we do have to have some conversations because we have to be very careful about pushing people out or, or not being like— you gotta— you said you gotta fix the car my way.

53:53I, I'm gonna say no. I'm gonna say the car has to be fixed. Yeah, properly. And, and so there's a standard though. I think that you— there's a— to meet the standard. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I grew up very much black and white. And one of my dad's— when I worked for him, one of the biggest arguments we had was I installed the radiator different than he did.

54:14Yeah. And it took about 20 minutes less time. And he was like, you can't do that. You have to drain the Pitcock for 20 minutes before you— no, I can pull the lower hose off and it'll dump it out in seconds and I'll get it done. And I had a conversation with him that said, are you looking for how I did the job, or are you looking for the job was done right and the result was the right result?

54:35And I think that's the difference too between, okay, I'm a, I'm a good tech, I understand how to do the job and get the right result, but now I'm going to be a business owner and I have to be more like— if I'm managing people or if I'm going to own, I have to be more, are we getting the right results? I have to be more focused on results.

54:53And we're, as an industry, we're We're not necessarily focused on result, we're focused on process. Like, how did we do that job, right? Yeah, that's a good point. That's a really good point. But we are going to start and determine criteria, which by the way, the criteria we determine in the next 6 months may not be the criteria that ends up in the end 5 years from now, right?

55:19But we have to move in and we've We need to create the structure in the organization. And half the industry or 40% of the industry is still going to fight it. Yeah. And that's okay. They've been fighting forever. Let them fight. Yeah. One of the things, just as he does, and this is because we're both in our 60s, and you can't be kind of pregnant.

55:42And that's what we've been doing in this industry. We want to be kind of pregnant. No. And we want to talk about how we're going to make the baby, not how we're going to raise the baby. No, I mean, you think about it. Yeah. And it's really time to let's get pregnant, let's have the baby, let's start to do. Yeah. And, and start to move.

56:01Yeah. Now, it might not be right for all, and it's been a lot of effort of being inclusive, not exclusive, but we want to be inclusive. We want to get as many people to get into the conversation because it's when you get that conversation going, you're going to move the needle. But ultimately, at the end of the day, as much as we say and how much it means to us, it's somewhere got to trickle.

56:23It's got to mean something to the consumers. And the consumer's got to be going down the street and say, no, I'm going to go to Tom's shop and not Bill's shop because Tom's doing this. And I know this and I know what this means. And that becomes a value differentiator. And that puts you in that, you know, we talk so much about that unique selling proposition.

56:45And what we're doing and how you talk to your clients and everything else. But if the consumers don't see a difference, the industry can talk about it until the cows come home and it's not going to make a difference. We've got to get it to there. Just that— and I'm not trying to disparage the associations, but every association has like a code of ethics that they operate under.

57:07And it's just a sheet of paper that they send you out whenever you pay your dues.. And when I first started, I paid my dues. They sent me the sheet and it was something that I pointed out to every single one of my customers. I've got it hanging up by the front, by the front counter. You know, this is something we abide by.

57:23You know, we pay into this, yada yada. The customer could give two fairies, you know, who is association? No, means nothing. Like, yeah, I had no, no concept. The, the biggest issue you see with pushback, at least it was for me, was my immediate— and this was, I mean, this was sort of because everybody immediately thought this has to be government. And my disdain for the incompetency of government in general always made me go, no, no, no, no licensing, no.

57:54I don't want the government involved. And no, exactly right. We're talking about industry is exactly where I'm like Well, yeah, I mean, just like you're saying, the bar, like, well, yeah, what if we elect the people? What if we're the one that— well, monitoring— everybody buys into an organization, everybody's paying into the organization, that organization's full job is to make sure that competent people are touching the cars, and then that's it.

58:19And the consumer is going to those particular shops, or they're okay paying less, but who knows what they're getting. So when you hire an unlicensed technician Right. He may burn your house down, but you may save a few dollars. The funny thing is right now that's already happening. The consumers are paying less. There's an imbalance. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So why not, why not make it official?

58:40Why not clean it up? Why not? Why not make it what we want it to be as an industry? Yeah. As opposed to what they might force on us. I'm going to go back to the association comment a little because we've had, you've had conversations with different leaders of the different associations around the country in general. And the common statement I'm hearing is we talk and we participate, we're teaching classes, we're exhibiting, we're what have you.

59:09But they're talking about their membership and there's a struggle on the membership. The value proposition of the next generation coming don't see the value of that association that mom and dad did and mom and dad were members of and supported it. Now the next generation's coming in and they're like, yeah, we're going to bow out. But why? And it really comes down to what we're doing to create relevancy.

59:34And if we're not doing something to raise the bar with content, information, all the things we're talking about, you're giving the millennials, the Gen Xs and millennials and even now Gen Zs who are coming in, no reason to stay. Yeah, for sure. Well, the associations, No reason. There's been a decline in the associations for a number of years, and the issue really has been, like, nobody saw value in it.

1:00:00Nobody saw value in what the association was doing, and it's like, okay, well, pay us to come to our event, and the event really pays for the association throughout the year. You have this board and you have all this stuff, but it's not a board of action. It's not something that's doing something. It's social. Exactly. It's become social. So, and I suggested this to, and I won't say names here, but I've suggested this book to a couple associations I've been talking to.

1:00:26And there was a book written, it's been about 10+ years ago, it's called Race to Relevance. And it's dealing with just associations. Yeah. And if we don't change our thought process, and if we don't do something that's gonna make a difference and move the needle, you're giving the next generations no reason because our generation, the baby boomers, we did it out of loyalty.

1:00:47We paid the fees. We did this. We came because that's just what you did. It was part of the game. It was part of the game. And we did it out of the loyalty of what that baby boomer generation did, because that's just what you do for the industry to help it and support it. The next generation is saying, well, wait a minute.

1:01:04If I'm not getting any value, why am I going to give you $1,500 or whatever the dollar amount be every year and come to this and that when I'm not doing it? It's doing nothing to move the needle. And they're now starting. So it comes back to where's the relevancy? And if we don't— and I'll pick on us at the Institute. We talk about it a lot in our leadership.

1:01:26What are we doing to start driving our content? What are we doing to start improving? What are we doing to do and create that relevancy that keeps us out there? We want to try to be better at being not that we want to be that cutting-edge thought leader, but if we're not doing things to start driving and making people stop and go, wait a minute, that makes sense.

1:01:46What can I do with this? If we're not doing more to drive data, better information that you can take that makes a difference and put into action, then we're not going to be relevant. Yeah, I would also say, and we are doing all kinds of things. We just launched Auto Academy. We have other things that are going to come out in the next few months, but we also have to take responsibility for ourselves.

1:02:11Okay. Amen. When I was a young person in this industry, I didn't want to be in this industry. I'm not supposed to be here. I should have played pro basketball. I should have retired with $100 million in the bank and bad knees. And I still have bad knees, but I didn't get the $100 million. Okay. But there was a point in time where I said, if I'm going to do this, even if it's for a short time, I want to get good at this.

1:02:36So I went to classes, I paid for classes myself, I gave up my time, uh, to go to those things, to support those things. And, and I gained, I gained. I made this comment, you know, uh, and somebody put it out— I don't know if it's you guys or somebody— but, you know, the education that I paid tens of thousands of dollars for, maybe even hundreds of thousands thousands of dollars for has made me millions of dollars.

1:02:58Yeah. Okay. And, and one of the problems that I see is I think it's, it's across all generations. We have a lot of people that say, yeah, but, right? Yeah, but I don't have the time to take that class. Well, wait a minute. We have a 5 Ways to Improve Your Profit, your net profit. Uh, it's a 15-minute online class. It's free.

1:03:20Uh, I know we pushed it out through you guys. We pushed out a lot of ways. It's on our YouTube channel. Come in and you can even find it in our classes. It's no damn charge. And it will tell you 5 ways that you could make probably another $100,000 to $150,000 in your business. And we can't get people, you know, not that 90% has not seen that.

1:03:41Yeah. Okay. And it's free, right? Dude, I'm going to tell you, the 90% doesn't know what net profit is. Yeah. I don't have time to improve my life. We have to take responsibility for our own lives. Yeah. Okay. Not that's, that's lacking, right? In today's society, that's something that's lacking. You know, I'm going to upset some people, right? I'm going to upset some technicians.

1:04:02I did an episode with Jeff the other day and I said, look, I said, there's plenty of information out there now. Now, listen, you started your career 20, 30 years ago. I understand that maybe all this information wasn't out there, right? Oh, yeah. But, but here's the thing is like right now, If you're 17, 18 years old and you're coming into this industry and you're not putting $5, $15, $20, $25, $50, $100 back in an IRA every single week, you're insane.

1:04:28You're insane. I mean, like, it's obvious. But see, that's just it, is they never looked at it and said, I have responsibility for my outcome. But think about, think about this. So I've got the giant Snap-on toolbox that I paid— that is not an investment. I just want to say that out loud. And, and I'm spending, you know, $100 a month, $200 a month, $300 a month, $500 a month on tools because I see tools as essential to do my job.

1:04:56What am I spending on my education? Yeah. Okay. My time. How much time am I learning about business? How much time am I learning about people and their personalities and how to deal with different people? And yeah, how much of that am I actually doing? And listen, that's for technicians too. That's not just for everybody. But it's interesting when we— so we're on the advisory board with Weber State, which is one of the one or two top tech training.

1:05:24Yeah, for sure. Phenomenal. And we get into the conversation with— and maybe remember Cade when he was saying this, but he says, there's a difference. Johnny comes to their career day to understand. And there's a difference when you watch the groups of coming in. Johnny's coming and he's bringing mom and dad because Johnny's got enthusiasm and wants to learn. Yeah. And then you got the other side where mom and dad are bringing Johnny.

1:05:48Yeah. Because they're just trying to get Johnny to do something. Yeah. And then they wonder why Johnny doesn't do well, doesn't invest. And we've got too many that we're not doing enough to talk about this industry and how good of an industry it can be. Yeah. And where it can take you. Yeah. And instead we're like, well, wait a minute, you're you're going to college, but it's not the same.

1:06:08Yeah, you didn't come out with a BA or a BS in science or English or whatever, business, whatever it is. So it's not the same, but it is. And we need to start looking and recognizing the professionalism of what this is and not look at it as what has been 20 and 30 years ago. Yeah, well, and talk more about that too.

1:06:30You know, the, the technicians right now, primarily technicians some service advisors, not nearly as many, some business owners, not nearly as many, always talk smack about the industry. Right. And it's like, by God, you were part of it, right? Like if you're unhappy with where the industry is, fix it. Yeah, exactly. You have a, you have a role where we're at and you have a role in fixing it.

1:06:53Do something about it. Stop talking shit about it. Pick up and do something. I talk about marketing because it's one of the things that's kind of important to shop. And I talk about local involvement in BNI with a lot of different people. And I have some guys that go, oh, we have this great BNI group, I'm this, I'm that, and, and etc.

1:07:11And I have other people, well, we tried BNI, it sucked. And my answer is always, what did you do about that, right? Did you, did you get in the leadership? Did you change the messaging? Did you change what they did? Because the guys I know that did that have fantastic BNI groups that help support their business. The logic behind that doesn't work.

1:07:32Like, you're telling me every single B9 group sucks? Yeah, this huge organization. Just because that one does doesn't mean this one does. Chamber or whatever. Yeah, yeah, it's gonna be all suck. Seriously. And, and, and just be— you, just like the guy that comes to me and says, my owner won't let me. You have a decision to make. Yeah, right. This is your life, it's not his life.

1:07:54That's right. It's not your wife's. I guess your wife's going to be tied to it, but you know, it's your life. You have a decision to make. Your decision is, do I want to create some rules around my life and what I'm willing to accept and not accept? And do I want to have a vision for who I want to be in the world, right?

1:08:10Yeah. Uh, and, and then do I want to stay here or not? Can I work with the owner to get what I need? Yeah. Or, or should I just bitch about it online because it's an easy place to not have any accountability, which is what makes me more angry than anything. I'm really impressed you didn't drop like 15 expletives. No, the F-bombs were there.

1:08:31I just held them back. The thing about— I'm going to go back to the young people in this next generation. There's a lot of them who have enthusiasm and they really want to excel in this. And we have one of our coaching clients, and I love his story. And he says, I'm going down the street and there's this young kid and I'm seeing he's out in the driveway and he's working on a motorcycle.

1:08:54And this thing's apart. I mean, it's in pieces and it's laying out in the drive. And it was probably not a week or two goes by. And also now I see him driving it up and down the street. And he goes, one more, a few more weeks after that, I'm going by and here's an old Fox Body Mustang and the engine's out of it.

1:09:10Next thing you know, he says, I see him a few weeks go by. I see him driving it up and down the street. So I just stopped and talked to him. And the kid happened to be just out of high school. And I'm like, what do you want to do? And this and that. Why don't you come? I'd love to talk to you and love to bring you into our shop.

1:09:25He's now one of his better growing young techs, and he's doing all the little things. And there's, there's people, there's people out there with the enthusiasm. And if you invest a little bit of energy and do something to support and help, you'll create that loyalty. You'll create the change. And we sit there and we think at times that, well, that's on them to do.

1:09:48But if you don't give them something and help give them a little bit of a nudge and support, what are they going to do? It'll fade away. It'll fade away and it'll die. We try hard to teach our company, everyone in our company, it's okay to come with a complaint. Yep. Okay. But if you don't come with a solution, I don't want to hear your complaint.

1:10:10I am so sick of this industry. Everywhere you go, it's owners suck. And by the way, all owners don't suck. I know some really great owners. I know a lot of great owners. A lot of great techs too. I know some techs that suck, but I know some really great techs, right? Blah, blah, blah. If you're just going to get online anonymously and bitch and you don't have a solution or you're not willing to be part of the solution, shut up.

1:10:33And go sell shoes. Exactly. I'm done. I'm with you. I'm with you. I've had it. All right. So how— who's invited to the party and how do they get in contact with you about being part of the party? WeAreTheInstitute.com. Ceeslaat, WeAreTheInstitute.com. Let me know. Yeah, we'll, we'll figure it out. Okay. We do have a pretty good large size group of vendors at this point in time.

1:10:57We are trying to get some things in order. Let's just have conversations. They cost nothing. Yeah, let's talk. So technicians can email you? Absolutely. You want service advisors can email? Absolutely. Managers, etc. Don't care. Let's be part of the solution. I love it. Let's do it. Thank you for listening to the Changing the Industry podcast. If you enjoy the show, do us a favor and leave us a review on your favorite podcast player.

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