Building a Career From Scratch at 30 with Sean Pierce

0:06It was nerve-wracking to pull. Yeah, I did that for like maybe 8 or 9 years and then decided I wanted to work towards actually becoming a mechanic. So everybody over here when I did it was trying to get jobs or like, oh, go to school, get your ASEs, come talk to us. So they didn't have intern programs around here, or if they did, it was like you're gonna spend quarter at the dealership, then go back to school for a quarter, and then flip-flop.

0:32And if you didn't hold the job or you didn't pass the class, then you lost your job. It took me till like I was 30 to go to school, to go to trade school to get my ASEs, to get an associate's degree in automotive technology. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to another exciting episode of the Jaden Mechanic Podcast. Um, it's not as smoky here as it has been, but today's guest, uh, Sean Pierce and I were just talking about how Sean's in Oregon and it's actually one of the largest forest fires that's going on right now.

1:12He's like 6 miles from, uh, but it's going the other way, so, you know, you don't have to worry. I don't think this one's gonna get shut off early or anything like that because of it, but, uh, things can happen. So Uh, Mr. Sean, how are you today? Pretty good, keeping busy. Yeah, that's always good. So we got a farm, so all our animals are keeping us busy.

1:32So right on, good for you. How much— what kind of animals? Um, I mean, they're all pasture pets for my wife, but, uh, got goats, 2 donkeys, a horse, chickens, dogs. So It's one of those farms where everything's got a name and a face and none of it's really food yet. Yep. The only thing we get food-wise is from the chickens. So yeah, my, my brother's buddy has a kind of a farm like that.

2:01And I mean, it's a lot of fun. It's— I think it's really cool to raise up kids in that. But I mean, it's, it's, it's always— I always just was like, God, those are expensive pets, you know what I mean? Like, they eat a lot. And, you know, it was the whole thing for me with horses. I, I worked with a technician, I can remember And at one point, what he was paying to rent his house was the same as what his girlfriend was paying to board their horse, her horse.

2:27And I was— and I mean, they were struggling. Like, they were, they were really, you know, they had some tough financial situations. And I'm like, this doesn't make sense to me. Like, what the— yeah, I mean, we're lucky enough that we've got 5 acres and a barn and everything, so we're not having— I don't know if we'd do it if we had to board something.

2:42That would be Yeah, really expensive. Like you said, she, she can't ride the horse to work. Like, what, what are we doing? We're— it's my grandfather, God bless him. Like, if he wasn't betting on them when they're going on the track, to him they were just a hay burner. That's what he called them. And I guess kind of my, my bias is stuck with that.

2:58But, um, kind of tell us a bit about yourself, Sean. Uh, well, I'm a— currently I'm a tech, uh, at an independent shop. Okay. Uh, it's, it's It's more based towards like Toyota specialty and Sprinters. Nice. Um, not on the Sprinters being nice, Toyota being nice. Sprinter, that's kind of— it is great. Yeah, Sprinter can suck. Sprinter, it doesn't matter what we buy, like tool-wise, it's never, it's never enough.

3:30It doesn't give you all the information. So, uh, but that's what we specialize in over here in Bend, it's all those really expensive camper conversions and people only drive them twice a year, so they're always breaking down. So yeah, I follow a guy on YouTube, Kits Auto Repair, and he seems to have built himself a little niche. I don't know if you've seen him or not.

3:51And like people are bringing him a lot of Sprinters that have been converted over to RVs or even not converted, just like, you know, Sprinters that have got the electrical problems that all Sprinters do or, you know, derated because the turbo's shit, or so on and so forth. And I just shake my head because I was in Chrysler when the first Sprinters hit the market, right?

4:13So before Mercedes was bringing them out in terms of the North American market, Dodge was bringing them too. And I remember looking at that when I hit the ground and I remember going on a course and it was like the first public service information that came down from Chrysler, all the wire colors were wrong. Every one of them. And we're like, oh yeah, it was, it was a bad thing.

4:34It was like they gave us service information from the year before. So you'd be looking at a glow plug circuit like all the wires are wrong but the pins are right. And then it was just, it, it absolutely added a lot more wrinkles to trying to fix these. So I mean, I have no love for that. Yeah, no, with that I'll stay away from as best I can.

4:56Yeah, we have, we have other guys that really like to work on them, but yeah, they're all— a lot of them around here are old, like FedEx, Amazon trucks, so they've got a ton of miles on them. Yeah, and people think they look great, and then you get into them and it's just like whatever they did to make the doors not light up the dome light circuit or anything, and all that's cut out.

5:15So we're having to trace down and figure out what they did, why they did it, and people don't want to pay for it. Well, and that's, I think, because the, you know, and I follow them too. Like, I see the overlanders and the people living the van life on YouTube, right? And it's very romantic, you know, when you look at it in terms of, wow, that's really cool, you know, to be able to move around and free and, you know, fixed address and just kind of, but like, you gotta have some pretty good DIY skills, I think, to get through them or else you're gonna be everywhere you pull in and break down, you're gonna

5:52be going broke. Like, it's, it's crazy because I can remember— shoot, I can remember one of the last Sprinters I worked on had a, a fuel pump driver problem coming from the ECM, and it was like, it wasn't turning on the fuel pump. And, you know, it had been towed in and everybody had told them they needed a fuel pump. It's like, nope, the ECM's not grounding, you know, the relay.

6:14Like, it's not— it's— I can make it run for a little bit, but it's not. And, you know, and then of course they, like you said, they don't have any money for, uh, I can't program it, I can't like order parts parts for it. It was just a cluster. And of course then it gets towed back out of there and they don't want to pay their diag.

6:30And it's like, I'm sorry, I can't put this fuel pump in this for you because it's not going to fix the damn car. Like you don't have ground going back to your fuel pump. Why not? Well, the ECM's shot. And yeah, it was just, I felt bad for them because nothing ruins a vacation more than a breakdown. But yeah. So at your shop then, Sean, do you stick to the kind of the Toyota side of stuff or?

6:55I mean, we kind of work on everything. I'm— I would say like Toyota, or I'm really into Euro cars. That's all, you know, I grew up with Euro cars. I did— when I did car audio for like 13 years, I did all the Euro cars that came in because the electrical, and then worked at a couple European like specific shops. So I tend to do both, but I work on everything there.

7:19We work on anything from like a GMC Safari all the way up. So we have an NSX coming in Monday that we've worked on for like the last 20 years. Yeah, so it's kind of everything, but I do enjoy the Toyotas. They're— it's pretty much all the same. Yeah, problems all the way across. And people over here, they don't, they don't mind spending money on their Toyotas.

7:44Like, no, it's It's a pretty niche market that we've kind of nailed over here. Okay. And, uh, it just makes it easier when, you know, we use all OEM parts. So we've, you know, got really good— like, what am I trying to say here? Uh, we're really good with like the dealers, local dealers and stuff. So they, you know, tend to help us out on getting parts or finding parts.

8:14Yeah, yeah. So which— and that's key, right? Because it's like we, we see so many, you know, and you and I kind of talked before we got on about how so much of the issues that's happening in the, in the shops now is that they're forced to buy something and put it in, and it might not even be their first choice, but it might be the only thing available, right?

8:33Because otherwise you might be, say, you know, I'm going back to the European side of things, Yeah, Worldpack can ship it, but unless you live somewhere close to like where there's a Worldpack warehouse, you're not getting it same day. You're not even necessarily getting it next day. You're probably getting it within the week if you're lucky, right? And yeah, we're, we're like right next to the airport here, so Worldpack, they're pretty fast at sending us stuff, but it's, you know, if we don't order it by 3 o'clock, yeah, it'll be 2 days away.

9:03So But I was in Portland and there was a hub there. We got a delivery every hour on the hour. So leaving that to come over here, it's kind of hard. How did you get into the car audio thing? It was kind of like your first, you kind of said like that was your first kind of sticking your toe in the water auto repair.

9:23Like how did you get into that? Uh, I just had a buddy that was doing it and, you know, I did all my radio stuff growing up, just like mechanic stuff. Like I didn't have the money to pay pay somebody to do it. So I just figured it out. But, you know, I, I really like wiring diagrams, which is weird to say.

9:44But I mean, not a lot of people like them. And especially you go into European stuff, but they just kind of came easy to me. Makes sense. So yeah, so, you know, doing I say car audio, it's not just stereos and speakers, but it's, you know, I did a lot of alarms. So you had to figure out like ohms resistance or, you know, what's, what's going to take this, you know, CAN bus wiring to get that to open and close.

10:14Um, I did a lot of like fiberglass fabrication, metal fabrication. So I did all that stuff on the side and I thought I'd try and take it into the car audio part of it. So, uh, once I got in there, it was super easy. Um, and the companies I worked for were like, I mean, one of them was the, one of the biggest, I would say in the Northwest, they had like Oregon, Washington, Colorado, and Texas stores.

10:45So, um, there was a lot of knowledgeable people there that if I couldn't figure it out, I lean on these people from all these different markets. To get an idea. But, you know, I think doing that part and all the wiring and interior teardown definitely helped me get to the mechanic part of it. But we would have brand new cars come from like exotic dealers.

11:17Like, I think the last car I worked on was like a 2013 Ferrari California. Wow. And the guy, he bought it, told the dealer it couldn't have more than 3 miles on it, and then told us that we couldn't put more than like 4 miles on it. But we were doing like, you know, interior out, bumpers off to do front cameras, rear cameras, uh, radar shifters, just a bunch of stuff.

11:47And like to see those cars come in before even like all data had that information, right? Like it was nerve-wracking to pull a $100,000 car apart too. I, I can't even imagine it. Like how, I mean, how I would even go about it, you know what I mean? From the, without the, what's the process of removing this bumper? Where's all the fasteners?

12:14You know, like that is scare me. It doesn't scare me so much on like a 10-year-old Toyota, right? But I mean, yeah, like talking about a, a supercar, $100,000 supercar with no service information. Like, you must develop some pretty good patience and some pretty good, like, I can't stress about how long this is supposed to take me. I just have to without breaking anything, you know?

12:39Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah. So doing that stuff, like, I think I did that. I'm trying to remember how long I did that for, like maybe 8 or 9 years. Wow. Uh, and then decided I wanted to, you know, work towards actually becoming a mechanic. So everybody over here when I did it, uh, was trying to get jobs or like, oh, go to school, get your ASEs, come talk to us, right?

13:09Uh, so they didn't have intern programs around here. Or if they did, it was like, you're gonna spend, you know, a quarter at the dealership, then go back to school for a quarter and then flip-flop. And if you didn't hold the job or you didn't pass the class, then you lost your job. Yeah. So it took me till like I was 30 to go to school, to go to trade school.

13:38Uh, to get my ASEs, to get an associate's degree in automotive technology, because I was tired of everybody saying you need to have all these, yeah, certificates, I guess. But I grew up working on my own cars and, you know, became that friend that everybody came to their house to work on their cars or help them out. So I always wanted to be a mechanic, but Uh, it just seemed a little bit harder to get there from the beginning.

14:10So it's not as clear a path as we think, right? Like it used to be, because I know when I was coming up and we're talking, so we're talking the end of the '90s, right? A long time ago now. It, every shop needed a young person. Like they, even if it was just like, we need you to take out the trash and do some oil changes and be able to lift the tires on for the old guy.

14:33Like we need someone. And if you showed some initiative and you had some natural aptitude, I guess, then you worked your way through. But now I think it's like there's such a shortage, but yet there's no clear— I was just talking with somebody else about this and there's no clear path that goes, this is what day 1 looks like and this is what day 365 looks like and what the difference will be.

15:00There, I think it's we just wing it. Know, uh, and I, I don't think we can do that anymore. I think we've got to get in and go, okay, by the end of your first month, you know, I need you to know how to like do an oil change and, and torque, you know, the drain plug and torque the canister fill, you know, cartridge for the filter.

15:18And I need you to, you know, be able to check the tire pressures and do a DVI and, you know, get the air box back in and all that kind of stuff. And then, you know, by end of say the first year, I, you know, I need you to be able to understand what bad brakes look like versus what good brakes look like.

15:35And yet it doesn't seem to be like that. It seems to be we throw them in there and then all of a sudden it seems to be whatever aptitude the young person shows us determines their projection or their trajectory. And I don't think that works, Sean, you know. Yeah, we, uh, luckily at the shop I work at, he's, uh, he's owned it for 20 5 years.

15:57Okay. Uh, and he's grown it from like a single bay industrial shop to now we have 12 bays. He built this building, we got an alignment rack, but he'll, he'll start a kid out as like a shop porter, let them start doing some oil changes, work their way to a C-tech, B-tech, and, and so on. And We've seen some people that haven't even made it out of the porter range, but we have one guy that's been with us for 9 years and he started out as a shop porter and he's an A-tech now.

16:36We had another guy that just went from, I think it's been a year now, he was lube tech and is now a C-tech. So there's ways to do it that he's doing correctly that helped out everyone. I think that, you know, helps figure out the person just with them being in a shop every day and understanding how everything goes. And then once they become a lube tech, then we can watch them and then start, you know, with their DDIs, looking them over, make sure that they're seeing the correct stuff.

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17:58They're a partner in success. I've been in the trenches and I know what works. TechMetric isn't just managing shops, it's transforming them. Measure up by every measure with TechMetric. Hit the link in the show notes below for more. And I think that's helped. And just the fact that he does it. And I don't think there's any other shops in our town that do that.

18:19So it's made some great techs. And they've, like I said, he's been here for— one of them's been here for 9 years. Now, when they, when they get a little bit of ability, is he good at keeping them working with him? Or does he lose them to competitors? No, uh, I mean, they stay with us. Um, this other guy's been here for— that's now a C-tech— he's been with us for 4, 5 years now.

18:47So, and he's done this though almost, I would say, for 20 years. He's done this style of bringing techs up from the bottom. So he knows what he's doing. Yeah, right on. And it helps. We all help in the shop. We're not like a flat rate based pay structure. It's more hourly with production bonus. So there's a lot of like, everybody's there to help each other, but they're also there to get that, I guess, bonus on production.

19:23But if I have to stop and help someone out or help the CTEC understand like, play in an axle or any of that stuff, uh, or double-check their DBIs. It's not— it's not hurting me because I can go back right away. That's good, right? Because it's— it's— it always ends up— oh, everybody's like, it's a flat rate thing. It's not a flat rate thing.

19:44But if— if the incentivization means that I have to be running around like my butt's on fire to hit my number, it doesn't matter about flat rate or not. I cannot give the time that my coworker might deserve to understand how to do something better, right? And so it's not a flat rate thing. It's a— we have to make the numbers work so that everybody is moving and efficient and is enthusiastic and productive.

20:15But man, if you're seeing that attitude come out where it's like, I don't have time for this, I don't have time for you, I can't teach you, or I shouldn't have to do that for— You're not— your system's not working. Too many times it's, you know, that person is toxic. But I, I keep saying, why are they toxic? What made them that way?

20:36And some people are just a-holes. They really are. Uh, some people, you know, they— the grind just makes them where they can't back up and they can't slow down and think and just ride the curve. It's, you know, they're, they're too far gone. But if you've got people that are working together and helping one another, the last thing you want to do is screw that up by starting to, you know, reach for 5% more.

21:02You know what I mean? Like, it's just, it's a, it's, it's going to cost you more than 5%, I guess is what I'm trying to say. So yeah, right on. What, um, your boss, what's, uh, just a single organ— just a single shop? He just says, yeah, yeah, yep, just says the one. Uh, it's just him and his wife that run it.

21:24They've ran it the whole time. Uh, I think he, you know, our area has a local newspaper, or, uh, maybe I guess it's a newspaper, but in a 60-mile radius, uh, everybody in those 6 towns vote. Every year for best auto shop or best hot dog stand or whatever. They have all these different categories. But for the last 7 years straight, we just found out on Thursday that we won it for the 7th time in a row.

22:00Wow, congrats. And out of— I think he's won it 10 times total now. So it's, it's a well-recognized shop because he's been around for for so long and he's very big in the community. He like goes and helps school programs. Like they do like auctions and stuff and kind of help out the community. So he's big into the community. He's been around here for 30-something years.

22:32Yeah. So he knows how to treat the customers well. The techs well, knows how to build, like getting everybody to work well with each other. So him doing that has made it so he's able to just have the one shop and not have to have multiple shops to kind of make up some money or anything. Yeah, it's better, I think, to do one really, really, really well.

23:07Than to try to get 3 or 4 that are just mediocre. You know what I mean? And again, mediocre is all relative to people's perspective, right? Like we talk all the time about shops that are known to be the go-to to get something complicated done. And then we have the other shops out there that are like good, reliable, can do 90% and get through it effectively and efficiently.

23:32And please the customer. We could call them if you wanted, like the dealer alternative. Um, you know, are you guys— it kind of sounds like you guys are right on that where you're probably pretty specialized on what you're doing in terms of your 2 brands because you focus on those 2 brands and you become that kind of dealer alternative, right? Yeah. And we do have like a— we have like a Mercedes dealership in town, but they're so backed up with just recall stuff that, I mean, if we needed something to get programmed from them, before we got a factory scan tool, it would take 3 months for them to get to us.

24:14So they've gotten to the point where if it's a service item from the dealership, they'll send that Sprinter to us. They'll tell the customer, this is who we approve to work on your vehicle besides us. Right. Um, so that's pretty good that we've specialized in that point and we're able to have the specialty tools, the specialist programmers and everything. Um, and same as the Toyota as well.

24:41You know, a lot of the dealerships around here don't work on cars that are older than 20 years anymore. Yeah. So they, because we work with them so well, they do put our name out and that helps us being specialized in those areas. But we do work on, you know, all, all genres of cars. Uh, we're, you know, I think we're one of the few people locally, if not a little bit further than that, that still work on like the old FJ40s, right?

25:15So I mean, that he started out working as a dealership when those were, you know, popular, 20, 25 years old. And, you know, we're still working on this day, and we're, you know, the dealers are starting to bring those parts back, and we're not afraid to work on them. So, well, we've got a majority of, you know, FJ40s, FJ60s that have spent 20 years with us.

25:43They keep these cars around with, you know, close to a million miles on them. Wow. Yeah, it— we don't— I don't see many of those up here, like where I live. They're, they're not, they're not super common. I did have a— I had a good friend when I lived in Ottawa that they had one in the family, and it was, uh, it was a pretty cool— because we were all Jeep guys, and then he'd bring this thing out and we're like, what the heck is that?

26:08Like, it's, you know, but it was pretty impressive what that machine would do, I have to say. Like, it was, it was pretty cool. So, and then I have a friend I work with right now that he spent a large part of his youth over in, you know, Europe and Africa and stuff like that with his father's career. And they would talk about what those things would do, right?

26:25Like, you know, he's like, well, when we lived in Africa, you'd go this place. And he says, but like, you come through a section where there was the road just washed away. And he's like, but so snorkel kit was just standard equipment, right? Like, you just had to have it. And it's funny now. So when you're up here and you see one with a snorkel on it, you're like, you know, what's that gonna do?

26:48But it's very much just a part of that identity of that vehicle. I think it's pretty cool. You know, it's kind of like, I mean, we just make fun of it because it's just a tractor motor pretty much. It doesn't have horsepower, but it's got torque. And it's just funny seeing them on the road still and like the next generation of kids, you know, their grandparents had it, their parents have it, now the kids are starting to get them.

27:13So, uh, yeah, it's pretty funny. Yeah. What, um, we kind of talked about like some of the struggles you were— you, you seem to run into with parts. Do you want to kind of share me— with me what— give me some examples of how— is it a supply thing or a quality thing that's really causing you a lot of, uh Angst, or is it both?

27:35I think it's a little bit of both. I mean, we have all the Auto Zones, the O'Reillys, Nappas around us, but a lot of their stuff is starting to go downhill pretty bad. We don't like to use it if we don't have to. You know, our first option is OEM. Uh, Worldpac is the next step to get, you know, whatever B-grade OEM parts.

28:00Um, but we, you know, sometimes we don't have a choice because it's somebody in town vacationing, right? We have to roll the dice and hope, well, is this, you know, Napa part that's gonna be good? And then what's starting to get kind of scary now is to open a box from Napa and see that it's dormant. Yeah, because you see the dormant part and then you see the Napa part, so you go for the Napa part and then it's dormant inside the box.

28:26So Uh, not that Dorman has a ton of bad stuff, but there's some stuff you want to stay away from. Yeah, they're— I mean, and again, like, I've made some good, good relationships with them over there. And, you know, they get— again, because they're the biggest player, that's, that's the first thing, because they're the biggest player in the aftermarket that are in terms of are actually trying to put out parts that are, are an alternative and a solution.

28:54Let's say that, right? They obviously get dragged under the bus the most because they are the biggest player in that realm, right? Like, how many other people are like, let's build a window regulator, you know, for, for this particular car, even though, you know, it's not a known failure, but let's, let's make sure that we can serve our customer by having one?

29:17They do that. And then it's like people go Oh well, it's not machined right. A friend of mine was talking about shifter tubes for Econoline van. She's gone through this whole thing where it's like, you know, and it ends up being machined wrong. And so they were very good and helpful in a sense to her to say, you know, shout out to Lindsay, um, well, okay, you and 3 other people have brought it to our attention that it's actually the holes are machined flipped.

29:46So, you know, go ahead and buy the, the OE parts Send us these parts back and we'll pay for your labor. Like, that's, that's not somebody, you know, and this isn't being done through her local parts house. This is being done right from Dorman itself. That's looking for this. So, I mean, we talk all the time about like, you know, oh, I put this part on from Dorman and it only lasted, you know, 6 months.

30:14Sometimes that's a situation of like I'll talk about, you know, blower motors, resistors as an example. And they'll say, I put a Dorman one in, only lasted 6 months. What happened? Well, it failed again. Have you looked at the blower motor? You know, or like people don't— wiring. Yes. And they, and they go— and of course Dorman bears the brunt. They get the bullet hole that says, you know, they build a shit part.

30:39We're not always in our industry addressing the system as a complete system. We're looking at, you Failed parts, failed parts, failed parts. And then failure analysis. And what makes us good at what we do is understanding what failed and why and cause and effect. And I think sometimes Dorman gets hammered on that. It's like, how many times have they warrantied out a window regulator and the door is bent all the time, you know, or it's installed properly?

31:06Or this is the other thing we talked about this. Do you know how many parts they get shipped back that are not their part, but their actual failed OE part, because somebody just did not want to pay for a part. They wanted to try something, and then it fixed it, and they never technically bought a part. They just got a warranty claim.

31:26And see, Dorman doesn't immediately open up every package and go, sorry, we're not paying any money. They just pay. Well, that's people that are, are screwing them, and they're really Um, messing up the numbers of what's really accuracy. So when people start running off going, oh, they have a return rate of this, I pay it no mind, right? Like, I know the Dorman parts that have been— they've been nice enough to send me and I've put in my Jeep, I've had zero problems with.

31:55And it's not just me, it's other people that talk about— let's talk about that Pentastar oil cooler as an example. For this reason, I finally put one in that I had Like it just leaked as soon as I put it in. And the customer, unfortunately, they bought it from an online supplier, you know, so there was no warranty. They were, they were in a really bad way.

32:16But when I contacted Dorman about it, just saying, hey, have you seen this? They immediately wanted to see the part, see the packaging to know, because they're talking about there's a lot of these counterfeits now that are coming out that are in a box that looks like ours. But it's not ours. And it ended up that I wasn't able to send it back to them because the customer wanted the part for their own warranty BS and everything else.

32:40But this is something we got to remember. So I don't, I don't pay attention much to the, the internet babble anymore about that particular brand. Have I had, you know, Dorman parts fail? Yes, I had some vent valves on some Nissans that didn't work. Launch Tech USA has established itself as a trusted leader in automotive diagnostics and aftermarket solutions by delivering cutting-edge technology and reliable support to the North American market.

33:06Driven by a deep understanding of today's repair environment, Launch Tech USA develops solutions designed specifically for the growing demands of modern vehicles and professional technicians alike. Each year, Launch Tech USA introduces new innovative products designed to work with the latest advancements in vehicle systems, diagnostics, and repair demands. From advanced diagnostic scanners to ADAS calibration, alignment, and next-generation solutions, every Launch Tech USA product is engineered with purpose, built for accuracy, efficiency, and real-world performance in today's professional shops.

33:41Our commitment to innovation is unwavering. Focus drives our precision. Innovation fuels our progress. Together, they set us apart. Launch Tech USA is driving the future of automotive diagnostics. To find out more about Launch Tech USA, visit our website at www.launchtechusa.com. Tell them the Jada Mechanic sent you. So I always say, you know, engine management, it's not my first call, but I have— if somebody says, do you want to put a control head in for— and it's from Dorman, I've got no problem doing that.

34:10You know, a switch, a window regulator, nope, got no problem, do it all the time. You know, it works. I don't, I don't have issues with it. So I think they get blamed too much is what I'm trying to say. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I mean, like, like you said, counterfeit parts, we We don't tend to put customer parts in. Like, they have to be a longtime customer for us.

34:34We have to, you know, you don't have a warranty, but, you know, this is not normal for us to do. And we're starting to even go away from that because there's counterfeit NGK parts, counterfeit Bosch parts. Like, it's getting harder. And then you have to, because they're buying their parts from eBay, and finding it, you know, a Denso coil for $20 when it's definitely a, you know, $80, $90 part.

35:05Yeah. And then trying to show them like, go online, this is the counter— this is how you tell a counterfeit part. You wouldn't know that, but because we see it all the time, we actually have to start before we work on the car, kind of do some research, make sure it's not counterfeit or, you know, it's tough. It is. And, and the biggest player in the aftermarket, RockAuto— lots of people have talked about them in the last few months about how they have shown examples of counterfeits they bought from there, you know.

35:33So I mean, it's like we used to be able to say, oh, you were going to be fine if you bought from RockAuto. We can't even say that anymore. And then let's be real, there's dealers out there that buy aftermarket parts and sell them in the dealership because if they can buy a Nippon Denso starter from the parts house for less money than what they can buy it from the OE, and, and they get a better margin, they're going to sell it.

35:59Of course they are. They think it's all the same. But this is how the counterfeit parts wind up in the dealer-level dealer parts inventory. It's how it happens. It all comes back to people that are making the decisions on where they buy their inventory from are You know, obviously we're all trying to— post-COVID, trying to recoup some of those losses. This is how this stuff happens.

36:24And it's like, I wish I could say it's going to get better, but I feel like it's going to get a lot worse, Sean. I really do. Oh yeah, yeah, it's, it's pretty tough. Like, because, you know, some of these parts aren't easy to get into. When you guys say you use almost OE, like even pads and rotors Yeah, there's been some.

36:49I mean, like, we try to use— I say a lot of the majority of the Toyota ones, if they're local or they can be next day and the customer's okay with it, we'll do OEM pads and rotors. If not, we'll try and get as close to OEM as possible, or You know, we'll do like the— I can't even think of it right now.

37:12We'll do like the Napa brake packages that are like— can't think of the name right now. I know which ones you mean. Yeah, they're— yeah, so we'll do those and just, you know, we'll, we'll try our best to do OEM as possible, but it's not every day that we can do that. The nice part with like a You know, we, even if it's like a parts house or we've done some dealer stuff, every new rotor that goes on, we turn.

37:44Really? We match to the hub per wheel and we take that first layer off. That way we can make sure that it's true and straight. So you're using an off-car lathe every time? Yeah. Wow. Oh, very cool. So It's just a way to eliminate any potential comebacks for warpage. And we've seen, like, we've had some OEM stuff come that's been, you know, need 2 passes or whatever.

38:15Uh, but it's just a practice that he's always done. I thought it was crazy coming into this shop. We never turned, we never turned rotors wherever I worked at. It was always just replace it. And when I found out that he turned new rotors, I was like, well, that's weird. That doesn't make any sense. But after doing it for 3 and a half years, and seeing it from anything from an Akebono or a Brembo or something, all the way up to dealer stuff, it makes sense.

38:45Yeah. Yeah, I, I used to say all the time, like, the rotors got pretty good. Like, I didn't have to machine Now, certain brands that we would buy, if we bought them aftermarket, yeah, I'd have to chuck them on the lathe and, and pull a cutoff to, to make sure it was true. Um, drums, for a long time you couldn't even get a drum back in my day from Chrysler for the back of a caravan.

39:08If you bought it through the parts department and put it on, you still had to machine it. You had to take it, you had to true it on the, on the brake lathe. And, and everybody's like, why? Well, they would thump if you didn't. They literally would thump. It did not matter how you, um, how tight you set the chute clearance, they would thump and it would drive the customer nuts, right?

39:28And it's like they came in with like a drum that was completely beyond spec, but it didn't thump. And you put a new drum on, sent it down the street, and it was thumping. And everybody was like— so yeah, it became a situation of we had to add additional labor to the job to machine the brand new part. And, um, that was a frustrating thing.

39:47I machined thousands of rotors back in the day because like when we would have a Caravan come in, um, and the customer had, you know, say it sat and had a little bit of lot rot or, um, before it got sold, or the customer got them a little bit, you know, they weren't used to the car and they would kind of wear their first set of pads down.

40:09Well, back then, you know, we're talking the late, you know, early 2000s, it was still $100 a rotor for a rotor. To buy it from the dealer where I could chuck it on the lathe and an hour labor, $80, $90. Um, I could, I could shave off just a little bit. The new pads would bed in fine, no problems. But we had like, we couldn't do that with Grand Cherokees.

40:31We couldn't do that really with, um, the bigger trucks because by the time we would knock them off, there was so much deflection in the hub where it went over like the hub-centric of the rotor that went over the hub you couldn't get it true again. So you had to be sure to re— like up here, and I'm sure it's the same for you, you got to get that stuff super clean before you put the new rotor on, right?

40:52And I think that was why for so many guys when they talk about doing on-car, that's the way you can do it because you don't disturb any of that. It stays exactly as it was. Um, yeah, like you said, it's matching to that hub surface. Yeah, not— I've seen lots of guys end up with a wheel bearing failure 2, 3 months later after a brake job because like up here, you know, you take a bunch of swings with a hammer to get that rotor off and yeah, you're hurting the wheel bearing, you know.

41:20So it's just one of those things where so much in the way we do the job steers people to think, oh, this part's junk or that part's, you know, don't use this. A lot of it still comes back to how much we do what we do in the bay, right? Like, how is your process look in terms of, you know, it's like, do guys— we get into the conversation all the time— do guys clean the back of the hubs on the, on the rim where it goes up before they put the wheel back on?

41:4920 years ago, we were never doing that because they were almost all steel rims with a hubcap or steel, and it didn't oxidize the way it does now. Every, every time I take a wheel off, I'm cleaning the hub, the back surface of that rim, before I put it back on. Every time. Because it's just you see how much better it torques up and how accurate it stays, and less pulsations and less everything.

42:12Less vibration is a big part of it too, because you can stick that on the machine, spin it up on the machine, it balances perfect. You can put it on a car and drive it, and you're like, this thing's shaking your teeth, what's going on? There's your problem, lady, right? Like, it's, you know, I— that's where when we get into why it seems like Everything's taking longer, techs aren't producing as much.

42:34There's literally so many more steps now to doing just what used to be a basic repair that you can almost make the argument that like a brake job isn't going to be an hour and a half anymore, it's going to be closer to 3 by the time you do it, right, per axle. Like it's just the way it goes. On-car machining, everybody thinks that's so efficient.

42:53It is, but the setup time takes a lot longer than just knocking a rotor off and putting a rotor on, you know. Yeah. And you know, we see some guys that are flat rating brakes and they go, I don't understand why these brake parts don't last. You take the clips off, the pads are seized in the brackets because the, you know, all the rust that's underneath the clip.

43:14Nothing's lubricated. If it's lubed, it's lubed with the wrong thing. You know, it's ugga-duggas for the put the wheel back on. And everybody goes, I don't understand why my brake job lasts, doesn't last. And then somebody else can use the same parts and the brakes last 3 years. And it goes, well, that guy must be crazy the way he drives. Nope, it's just the little details.

43:33Yeah, and that's the nice— I mean, I— this is the first shop that I've ever worked at that was like hourly cost of production. It was always flat rate before. So, um, seeing, I guess, the mentality, like you said, somebody just slap it on as fast as possible, not cleaning or checking. Uh, it's a different mentality. Not saying that there's flat rate people, and I was the same way.

43:59Like, I was still super cautious and examined everything, but, uh, there's other people that aren't that way. So yeah, you can see the difference between that. And I can see how it happens too, because what— in the dealership when I was there, we had advisors that were like, they knew that some guys would turn a brake job in and out in 40 minutes, done.

44:21Set of front pads and rotors, 40 minutes in and out, you know, no kind of road test, no kind of bed-in process. And you see other guys like me that was like they were an hour and a half every time, right? Well, the advisors pretty much figured out soon that it was like if, if we had a guy that could do it in 40 minutes and it came in at 4:00 and closing time was 5:00, they still sold it and promised it for 5:00.

44:42They didn't care. Whereas now it's like if you look and, and quality becomes the, the number one priority, making the job last. They don't play that game where they go, yep, sure, you can have it done in an hour even though, you know, uh, we bill it out at 2 to get it done right. Because 2 means, you know, we're, we're throwing the caliper brackets in a blast cabinet and cleaning all that, and maybe we put some paint on them before we put the shim on.

45:09There's all kinds of ways, right? We're doing, you know, uh, Sherwood at Royalty talks about like their, their process to just to bed in the brakes after they put brakes on. That's a whole road test of like 5 miles and so many stops. And like, he shoots a video on doing it. I do it the exact same way. They used to say it was like 30 stops at, you know, I think 30 kilometers an hour, you know, metric up here, with like 30 seconds in between.

45:37That's what they used to say. And it was hard. Like, can you get that in a perfect world? Well, no, but you can get pretty close. It gives you the idea that you can't just like back it out of the bay, throw it in the parking spot, and hand the keys to the customer. That doesn't work. They are going to have a very frightening first couple of stops, you know, depending on how they drive, until— and then they're going to come back with squeaks and rattles, and because they never embedded them in right.

46:01So yeah, you know, and working, you know, a lot of European cars, they, they're pre-coded and everything, and that's, that's to help with the bedding process. And yeah, if you're driving it around and putting a couple stops on it in the parking lot, that's not doing anything. Customer's not going to know how to do it afterwards. Well, they're just going to take it and drive it.

46:25And I can remember when, when coated rotors first hit Chrysler in the part— in the, in the dealership, guys that had comebacks, they were convinced it was the coating. And they would take then a Roloc disc and start buffing the coating off before they went and drove the car, before they assembled it. I'm like, Wait a minute. That's— I think like they wouldn't bother putting that on there unless there was a reason for it to be there, you know?

46:48But again, they— you couldn't teach them that they had to take 10 minutes extra time. Like they just weren't going to hear it. They weren't going to have it. They just— I've always been able to do them in half an hour. Damn it, I'm doing them in half an hour. I'm tripling my time. Job paid one half. Yeah. Then at 30, you know, how much money am I putting in my pocket?

47:06Pretty good. It was frustrating. Brakes are one of those things where it's like I do a lot of them still, and, um, it's the same thing, man. You can take— I say this all the time— you can put on some pretty, um, less expensive stuff and still get a really good result if you spend the time to do the job properly, right?

47:27Like, and, and the industry proves that because there's guys online that will tell you they spent $18 on a set of pads and $50 on a set of rotors, and they did their own brake job, and it lasted 2 years, and they were happy with it. Why? Because they might have spent a little bit more time doing the cleaning, the prep, than some of us professionals do.

47:47Yeah, you know, it's— that's, that's doesn't mean that necessarily like the DIYers are really, really, you know, making us look bad. I'm not, I'm not here to say that, so What, um, what do you really like to do? Like you say you like the European stuff, but, and you like wiring. So you, are you, have you been steered to kind of the diagnostic side on those cars?

48:14I would say I spend probably 3 days a week on just doing diag. Wow. And then 2 days a week getting that diag done as a job. Um, but I would say it's me and another guy between 8 guys that are there that just do a majority of the diag, right? I like it. I'm one of those people that don't give up, like I'll fight it to the end.

48:41I'm also like, if I can't find it on AllData or get information direction from Identifix, I'll go deep in the internet and You know, when I did— I worked on Volkswagen and Audi only for 5 years. Wow. If I couldn't find it and I found it in a Russian web page by Google translating it, I like— I would spend time finding it.

49:09I don't like to see something— A, I give up and give it to another tech and have them try and do it. Uh, that, you know, I'm always just like right there It's just right there. So I think that's why I like Diag, because I can figure it out. Yeah, it's rewarding, isn't it? Like, it's— yeah, it kind of— and I tell everybody that's what got me addicted to it was because it was like not everybody could do it.

49:38So I felt really good when I could do something that somebody else couldn't because like, yeah, you can turn hours and I can put a steering rack in or I can do brakes or I can do tires or I can do struts or I can do Timing belts. But man, that just got like assembly line work, right? Whereas the, the problem solving, yeah, that was really rewarding to see something towed in and it didn't run and it was, you know, network was down and, and you find that eureka moment and you restore that car back to the way it was supposed to be.

50:11And you know that like everybody's kind of looking around going, what? No way, I'd have never thought of that. Yeah, that's a dopamine kick that, man, I still chase that in my life to this day because it's just like you feel so good. It's like the only thing that makes me wash away the crap that took forever was like the holy shit, nobody else would have got this, which is not true.

50:35Somebody else would have eventually. Somebody else maybe even faster than me for sure. I know a lot of smart guys, but it's that in the moment thing that, oh, like, you know, because we all get these cars and you get in and you're like, you know, saying a little prayer before you hit the key, right? But when you see that failure, you find that chewed wire, you find that loose pin, or, you know, you go and unplug that network, you know, that module and your network's restored, nothing feels better in the world than that.

51:08Nothing. You know, to drive the car again and the miss is gone and the power's restored and the stalling stopped, all that shit. That's, man, I'll chase that high till I'm done, I think, you know. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, uh, it's definitely rewarding and it's all— it's something I'll always like when I figure it out. It's something I keep in my mind.

51:31Like, I don't really For like, I'll remember a lot of stuff from years ago. It just sticks there. It shouldn't, but it'll come back at some point. It's not the only time it's ever going to happen. We— when I was at the Volkswagen shop, we were down the road from an insurance auction place and the dealers didn't work on totaled cars because they were afraid of a pinched wire or something.

52:02So they would come to us as well with accident damage and having to figure that out. So finding, you know, breaks in wires or whatever, that also helped as well. Because they didn't have another option. Yeah, because the dealership didn't want anything to do with it. So I had a lot of just the electrical part was like a huge— it's been a huge part.

52:28I did it in car audio. So I had to figure out like I said, CAN bus wires or triggers or whatever, even before, like, we had an equivalent. I can't remember the name of it, but it was kind of like all data's electrical sections, right? And, uh, they would, you know, all the alarm companies, if we saw the car first, they would, you know, and we could figure out it takes this many ohms of resistance to make this door unlock because it was different than the last one.

52:59Would actually send that information to them. Yeah. And they would give us credit on this. I can't remember what it is, but they would— that's how they would figure it out before the dealership would give them to them because they were a third-party company. So getting to figure that stuff out too was fun. So I think just the electrical part of it and the hunting down definitely is very rewarding.

53:22So, and being European cars most people don't want to touch it because it scares them. But it's just, it's a wire with a circuit and it does something. Yeah. So with your background then on a lot of that kind of work, Sean, have you been able to kind of avoid the flat rate, what's the word, flat rate culture that kind of comes in with like trying to always rush and get things done?

53:54Or have you still been bitten by that too in your, in your career? No, I mean, like I said, this is the first shop that I was hourly. Everything else I was at flat rate. Even when I did the car audio side of it, it was commission. So it just taught me to be more efficient with my time. Okay. I never had a problem with flat rate.

54:19And it might have been just because I was at like decent shops that there was a— we never had like a dip in business. So I never was at really those like shops that sat around and did nothing for days. Right. So I didn't really see the negative of it. Negative side of it. Some jobs, yeah, on diag would take longer. But we, because of the type of car, we would get to a point and ask the customer, like, do we— we think we need another 2 hours.

54:53Are you willing to pay another 2 hours to continue this? Uh, we think we'll find it in that time. Or if it's something that it's been at multiple shops, what's a, what's a reasonable number you want us to stop at? Yeah. Before you give up. That way it gives us an idea of how in-depth we're gonna have to go with it. So it doesn't— I'm not getting an hour diag to do electrical diag on something that takes me 7 hours.

55:21Yeah, you're not going to take on the hero car for only an hour, you know what I mean? That's— yeah, and then they come in with like that stack invoices from 2 other shops and one, you know, one uncle with a toolbox, and the car's still broken. All of a sudden, you know, you got an advisor telling them, well, yeah, okay, so our diag's an hour.

55:42Know, our initial diag is an hour and then we'll call you after that. Man, we've got to be a lot more willing in this industry to— and it's not about taking advantage of the customer, but it's about having a very real conversation about this is what this could really look like. Like, I got some sharp people in the back, but the first— say we charge 4 hours— the first 2 of that is that I— we've got to go behind everybody that's already been in here and see what they did.

56:08And look at what parts they installed and look at, did they forget to unplug something? Is the cheap part that somebody bought on Amazon actually— were they right in their diagnosis, but their execution using the product is what failed? All that stuff has to be fleshed out. And it's not— people just need to have a lot more conversation that goes, this could go 5 hours, but listen, if we get it in 3, We're not putting 2 hours in our pocket and, and, and, you know, taking advantage of— we're gonna, we're gonna stop at 3 because that's all it took.

56:42But we need a commitment here that we're gonna be— because otherwise, like, there's so much of this is flow anymore, right? It's flowing. It's like, okay, Sean, uh, you gotta call the customer for another hour, stop what you're doing, go get on another job. Like, that's just like, you might as well go home and keep brain not muddled with a different car.

57:02Because I know what it was like back in the day. I would— I'd be on one diag and we'd have to call the customer for more time, and I'd get onto another diag. Well, shoot, by the time I came back to that one that we were waiting on, it was like starting over again, you know? Yeah, having to refamiliarize. Yeah, or getting the tool back out or pushing it back in, or like any of that kind, or It was like, you know, all of a sudden now I had gotten enough work that I was like, I was gonna have a good week and I didn't even want to think about that car till next Monday

57:36and the pay rolled over again and all that kind of stuff. Like, that was all stuff that came into my mind too. Whereas if like we just have the conversation right up front and be very transparent with the customer, that's like, this one's gonna suck, you know, it's gonna— it's— are you willing to see it through. And if they say no, cool.

57:58You know, we don't, we don't hurt our reputation. We don't, you know, burn the customer. We don't force our hand and stick a known, you know, oh, Identifix says this is the biggest offender, jam that in there. We don't do that. You know, being under the, under the gun for time is what's making so many of us that like everybody thinks we don't know what we're doing.

58:21And the reality is, I keep coming back to it and I, you know, I upset some of my friends because I say I believe there's a lot more talent out there than what we're giving credit for. But it's the time and the money right now that's keeping people from being able to really show what they can do. And I get it. It's a tough economy.

58:40But I don't— I, in my heart of hearts, don't want to believe that so many of us are that incompetent with what we're doing. I want to believe that we just weren't given enough time to do it. And, you know, I know that's a pipe dream in some cases because there are some people out there that just shouldn't be touching the car.

59:01And I got a lot of— I got a lot of crap for saying, you know, if you don't know what you're doing, don't touch it. And of course people said, how are you ever going to learn if you don't try? And they had— they're making a very good point for Sure. But try, we can't try on every car and customer finance that for us because it's the same as like, do you charge the customer for learning?

59:24Well, not really, but sometimes it does happen. And it's just, is it right? That's a big conversation, isn't it, Sean? Like it's a big, what do you think about that? Like, you've had cars, I'm sure, that have kicked your tail. Oh yeah, I was thinking, I was talking with a buddy the other day. Uh, I worked on this Audi, it's like an Audi S8 with the V10 in it, and, uh, it came in with 74 codes and it had everything from EVAP to ignition to It had like the exhaust solenoids to open up the flappers.

1:00:12I mean, it like 26 different systems and they all kind of linked up. Uh, and that, that kicked my butt. And that was one of those customer things where we're like, look, I mean, it's 74 codes. Yeah. And we're going to spend time trying to link them together. Clear them, hope that the circuit that's bad is going to come back, and then we can— goes from 74 to 20.

1:00:42All right, cool, that's great. And luckily this customer was good enough that he was just like, just go ahead and, you know, call me after 20 hours. Not that it needed to go 20 hours, but, uh, he understood that a lot of the stuff wasn't even linked together. So I think that having the customer understand that and giving him— letting him know the process that it might take and him giving us that number helped out.

1:01:20But it was still— I mean, I think it took me like almost almost 19 hours to figure it out. Yeah. And even at 10, we're like, you sure you still want to go? We've like limited it down a little bit, but there's still a lot more to go. And it ended up just being like a high-pressure pump blew out a main relay, but before it blew out that main relay, it took out one of the ECMs because it had 2 ECMs.

1:01:50And when that happened, then it started seeing missing circuits. So it was, yeah, just daisy chaining. But you know, what is there? Yeah, that was— what's their thinking, Sean, for putting 2 ECMs in it? Like one, I guess it's too many drivers for one to handle, so they kind of split it. Is that the, the thinking? Well, I know on like that Audi it was because it had 2 throttle bodies.

1:02:16Okay, so they would do like a bank 1 ECU and a bank 2 ECU. Oh yeah, yeah. Uh, which makes sense, but it's not like— sometimes it was bank 1, bank 2, but sometimes it would be like the throttle body here, and then it would be the half the firing order, so it would swap out. So you'd think you'd be chasing one, but you'd have to chase it in both.

1:02:40And yeah, maybe that's why is because too many drivers, right? Everything's ran from the ECU now. So that would be my guess, because that's— I mean, that was a lot of stuff to put in, you know. If he had one ECU, you'd be just chasing your tail trying to figure it out. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Which is— I mean, I could see an advantage to having 2, because if you have 2 duplicate you know, everything going on, you could have a known good maybe to compare if, if it would allow you to see that trend, I guess is what I'm trying to say.

1:03:19But man, that's— you're— we're talking next level stuff. You know, I think back to when I first started working on ambulances. They used to have this— we call it an ECM. It was an ECM back in the back that controlled all the other functions on the body of the ambulance. And they ran all the lighting off the one corner of the ECM, which again was the circuit board inside.

1:03:42Now what would happen is when it would have all these lights on at once, that corner would start to overheat, and then it would want to shut down, and it would lose lighting, and it would do all kinds of wonky stuff. Now the people that created the computer were smart enough that they went, okay, we've, we've figured out through our testing that this is what happens.

1:04:03All these ambulances, what we want you to do is start moving pins around in the harness, and then we're going to send you an updated file that's going to turn on unused drivers on a different part of the board, and you go back to fixing your lights. And I remember I went and did the first one like that, and then I went, wait a minute.

1:04:19And I started getting an amp clamp out, and I started looking at, you know, amperage. And I'm like, if I just switch the lighting to LED, we don't have to redo the harness, and we don't have to redo the program. Well, I thought, let's try that. And sure enough, it worked without having to redo anything. So they're very much like— sometimes the engineers are like, it's engineered to work with these kind of lights.

1:04:42Cool. But if I put LEDs on, which was costing a lot less money now and is a better light than, than what they wanted to do, it fixed it the same. So that's when I think about like more than one way to fix something. There's always more than one way to fix something. Yeah, but it's, it's that ability for me, that's when I really kind of stepped out and went, okay, so there's no— because there's nothing published in ProDemand or AllData or Identifix about this because this is— somebody has built this program, this hardware, this everything for this body that goes on the back of this Chevy 3500.

1:05:20And you're talking to them and they're like, well, this is what our guys came up with. And I'm like, cool. I fixed some lights. And, you know, it's just one of those things where when you get to that level of where you can think outside of what the engineer was thinking about, you can fix anything, man. And that's like, you know, I wasn't paid flat rate.

1:05:42I was just showed up, here's a broken ambulance, go fix it. And I went, right on, let's see what I can do here. And yeah. It was fun. It was a lot of fun. You know, they taught me a lot. What, um, how do you find when you're working on that kind of those higher-end cars, are you set up mostly with all the OE service information as well as, like you said, the OE scan tool?

1:06:09Uh, I, I can't remember what it is that we have, but it does a lot of the European stuff and it does have a lot of the OEM, like, um, tests and everything on it. Okay. Uh, ISTA, or is that what it is? I think so. Yeah, we just got it like a couple months ago. I haven't used it that much. Um, but a majority of the stuff I, I tend to use like all data and Mitchell as much as I can just to get the wiring diagram down on it.

1:06:49Um, I have like the RossTech scan tool for Volkswagen Audi, and that, that I feel is— it's a free program, you buy the cord. That's probably one of the hands-down best modules or scan tools that I've ever used. Right. Um, because there's been chance or instances where I've gone through like the Snap-on or, uh, Autel or anything and it doesn't even show like the, the PIDs or anything or give you the option to do like throttle body relearn or whatever.

1:07:25Um, and then the Rostec, you know, I spent $900 on a cable and it does It's a factory program. Yeah. So it's— I just jump around, I guess, and if it doesn't work with one scan tool, I'll try another scan tool, uh, just because we have the option to have them. But I own the Rostec personally, so even the OBD generic function on the Rostec, it'll work on like 90% of the cars, and it gives you a lot more information than a scan tool does or a Snap-on does or whatever.

1:08:01They're trying to emulate that as best they can, but, you know, everything's starting to be like paylocked. Yes. Yeah. So, uh, that's— they can only go so far, whereas, you know, factory scan tools are obviously better at that point. But I, I try to, I guess, remember which one I can get the most information out of. Yeah, I'm lucky now. I've got, I've got 2 scan tools.

1:08:32I've actually got 3 available to me. 2 are my own. Uh, I've got a Snap-on and I've got a Launch. And, um, and then we've got a smaller Autel. I can't remember the thing, but it's a little tiny one. Very capable tool for what it does. But I mean, what the Launch will do, um, especially on Euros, is so far ahead of what the Snap-on will do.

1:08:52And I mean, and it's a Zeus that gets updated like every month, you know. It's just on automatic update constantly. But the, the Launch just comes out and does so much more. And not only does it do it so much more, the topology's there, which is really cool that the Zeus doesn't do. And then it's like, you know, the way to navigate it around to find the really quick stuff that you want to do— like, I just want to clear the service light, and I just want to, you know, check the oil level, that, you know, because it doesn't have a dipstick— so much faster.

1:09:18So much faster. I, I love that tool. I— it's my first kick at a Launch, and, uh, I Definitely, they've been great sponsoring me here, and, uh, I just absolutely love the tool. It's my first grab now. I almost never grab the, the, the Snap-on anymore. And I keep thinking, like, the launch, I'm gonna hook up to a domestic and it's gonna have a hole that the, that those, the Snap-on won't.

1:09:44I can't say that yet. It's been able to do everything domestic-wise too that I've needed to do that the Snap-on could. So it's pretty I think the days of being in a shop and only having one tool are long gone. Long gone. I think the days of one tool, one service information, you can't get by anymore. I think it's just become, uh, you got to have multiples, you know, in order to be able to get through this stuff.

1:10:08And, uh, you know, you can never have too many resources, I guess is what I'm trying to say. So yeah, I mean, we just bought the new launch too. I don't remember which one it was, but yeah, we have 2 Autels 2 Snap-ons, the Launch, that one OEM interface one for Euro cars, and then we have a guy that has a Topdon.

1:10:27Mm-hmm. Yeah, and we'll snag that every once in a while. It, it's just whatever's gonna work the best. So, but yeah, one, having one scan tool is not working anymore. Mm-hmm. Now, how do you find Do you touch EVs and hybrids at all? We do. I've done a couple of the like Audi hybrids, uh, not a ton of information out there on them, not a lot of functions that the scan tools do, but there's enough to get by with what we're doing.

1:11:04Uh, and then we do a, we do a ton of Priuses and the RAV4 hybrids, um, and we have the the TIS or the GTS, Toyota GTS. So that helps out a ton on those hybrids and stuff. Yeah, it's, um, we had a Volvo, one of their, what, a VX90 or the big, the, the SUV with a hybrid. And, um, it was a problem car for, for us because customer bought it on the condition that like that Volvo checked the state of the, the battery.

1:11:38And they checked it out and said, yeah, it's 4 years old, 5 years old, battery's at 90%. And it was. We have all the printouts from the dealer and the whole thing. Well, within 3 months, the battery was only at 50% capacity. And then the customer was irate because they ended up like— and I get it, but it's one of those used car things, right?

1:12:00It's just, I don't know. I don't love the technology, but I'm slowly by the month, every month, I'm having to embrace it a little bit more. That it's just going to be, you know, unless I get out now, I might as well get comfortable with it because it's— I'm going to see more and more of them, you know, they're not going to go anywhere.

1:12:17Um, yeah, and with us being Toyota, like, based, all these new Tacomas and Tundras that are all the hybrids, uh, yeah, we're gonna have to start, you know, we're already starting, you know, doing like oil changes and stuff like that, but diag is going to come and we're going to have to be able to be on top of that. So I think there's incentive to learning it.

1:12:43I understand like the Prius hybrid, like that's an easy car to work on. It's flawless. But you start getting into like this Audi hybrid I went on and it didn't have, it only had like 30,000 miles on it and it was already having like sensor issues. So, and the information wasn't there and I, you know, had to shoot apart at it and actually end up calling Audi and they luckily helped us out with a little bit of it.

1:13:11But yeah, we have to jump on that boat too. Yeah, and getting it, and even our shop car, we have loaner cars at the shop, you know, we have a Hyundai EV and we have a Volkswagen EV, so we're not going to pay somebody to work on those. So Yeah, you know, we're learning on those. So it, um, it's definitely like more learning that that's gonna have to happen.

1:13:40So, and like having, like you said, like each day having to get into it a little bit more to be comfortable with it because it's not going to change. Yeah, and, and, you know, Everybody's so scared of it, you know, from the sense of— but I mean, I don't think— I think some of the initial fear from the physical standpoint of I can really get hurt, you know, and yes, you can, but they're making them so good now that you have to be like almost intentionally trying to sabotage yourself in order to hurt yourself.

1:14:21Like, it's— and if you want to go in and service so much of this, You can't even get at it without pretty much like doing the disconnect that's gonna make it safe, you know what I mean? Oh yeah. You know, I used to remember like when the dealership for Nissan, you know, and it was like, it was a big joke because the guy had to service, he had to change a battery out in a Leaf.

1:14:40Who knows, you know, like shocking. Yeah, that's what they do. Um, and they, you know, you have to put up the pylons and rope around them and, you know, get the hook for him in case, you know, all that kind of stuff. And I'm like, yeah, I mean, it's— is it a little overkill? No. But, you know, we know that there's shops out there that now are servicing these quite fine and following and having no issues.

1:15:08So, you know, I think it's just one of those things where, you know, as people become more comfortable, they're not so scared anymore. And then it's like, From— because from a tech standpoint, it's pretty simple. It's very simple. You look at the way some people do EVAP as an example, and then you look at how people do EV, and it's like, well, EV is way more easier to understand than the ways you want to do an EVAP system.

1:15:33But, you know, it's, it's when we get into the, well, how are they doing the, you know, the HVAC in, in regards to that and intermixing? That's when we get into where I think most of the people are not paying attention to the precautions, I think is what's happening is with EV. Guys are going out with a Prius and buying a can of refrigerant at the AutoZone and trying to pump it into the car.

1:15:53God, don't do that. I mean, don't do that in any car, but please stop doing it when— stop looking for your cheapest place to service the HVAC system on your hybrid or your EV, please. Let the people that know what they're doing touch it. Um, ADAS the same way. Please stop looking for the cheapest, you know, stick with the professionals. Um, what, uh, when you see the technology coming on, Sean, what are you really excited for?

1:16:28Tough question, I know. Yeah, I mean, a lot of the, um, I want to get into more of the ADAS stuff. Okay. Just, uh, we don't— I mean, we have a ton of body shops around us, so most of the time it just goes to a body shop, have them do calibrations and stuff. We have the space in the shop that we can start doing it, right?

1:16:49Um, because they're— I mean, I think the way that the systems integrate would be nice to understand it. And I guess be able to replicate what the system does. So learning about it and being able to, further on down the line, diag it. I think that's exciting because I just drove something the other day. I don't remember now, but it just the way that it like self-corrected and, you know, like I'm not a big fan of like the self-driving cars.

1:17:43Yeah, okay, I was just gonna ask you. Yeah, it's a little weird, but, uh, I think there's room for error in that. But if you can understand why it's doing that, then it might make it a little bit easier to be okay with it. Well, it's like I tell everybody, if you want to see something really cool, you know, go to, go to Las Vegas and, and just take, you know, take the Tesla Loop.

1:18:08Like, get in, you know, get in an Uber Tesla or like, you know, taxi Tesla and have them run you through the loop, you know. And, uh, it, it's the first time I ever did it was last year, and it amazed me to watch these like Because you're in tunnels underneath Vegas and, you know, you're whipping along, the car's driving itself, you're sitting in the passenger seat and he doesn't have his hands on the steering wheel, he's not touching nothing.

1:18:33And you can see in the screen the tunnel that's next to you underground, but you can't see it because it's dark. But you're seeing the car come in the tunnel towards you the other way, and it's like, it's the trippiest thing in the world, right? And it's showing you the next cross tunnel where that's gonna happen, and I'm like This is the coolest thing in the world.

1:18:53Like, not from a standpoint of like, man, do I want to work on them all day long, but it's neat in the sense that it's like when Mike Allen was talking just the other day about how self-driving is going to become a thing because as we keep getting more and more cars on the highways, the only way we're going to be able to keep all those highways moving is by self-driving because like we're not going to have distracted people, we're going to be able to whip along at 70 miles an hour within 10 feet of the person in front of us's bumper and not have an accident because that's the only way we're going to

1:19:28be able to fit all these cars on the highway. And that's a scary proposition then because it's like you said, it's one person that doesn't get the calibration right and all of a sudden we have a chain reaction. And I, from the ADAS side of it, I've talked to a lot of guys and they've made some big investments in ADAS. And then it's like it doesn't pay out as well as they would have hoped because it's— they're being beat up by the body shops that only want to pay X amount of dollars for a calibration.

1:19:58Or— and the dealers are going, hey, you like, you know, my guys do them in an hour. Your guy's not really doing it an hour. Like, they're, they're getting the light to go off, but is it really calibrated? Like, I don't necessarily I haven't embraced the idea yet that I want to trust the, you know, that I can put my cruise control on and come up right on the bumper of somebody doing 75 miles an hour and not hit my brake pedal.

1:20:27Like, I, I'm not there yet as a, as a motorist. Um, yeah, believe that, like, it's like anything else. I think as we keep going further and further into the tech, there's going to be more systems in place that it, like, it won't rely on just one, it'll rely on a multiple system or You know, something's going to happen, another camera that maybe, you know, the two have to agree or something like that.

1:20:50I don't know, but it's going to be cool. It's not going away. That's for sure. I can tell you. It's just, I hope it's not pricing cars out of the everyday person's budget because they're not going to be able to afford to fix some of these systems. Like you and I have seen lots of cars come in with an airbag light or an ABS and they're not fixing it.

1:21:11Because it's getting towards maybe the end of its life and they don't bother and they don't care. And, you know, and that's just ABS. Now when it's like the thing's gonna self-drive and it's not gonna hit the brake because nobody calibrated it properly, that's scary. So, you know, and I think that's scary on the other end too. Like you said, like that tech may have got the light to go off.

1:21:36Yeah. But that, you know, is that— that's going to fall all the way back to you, or is it just going to be because it was part failure? Like, it's, it's pretty— yeah. Well, I can remember the front radar sensors when they were really problematic in Nissan. You saw the time that they were paying the, the tech to diagnose it, change it out under the recall, put it back in, and supposedly do all the calibrations.

1:22:03It wasn't getting done. There's no flipping way it was getting done for the time that they were going to pay. Um, guys were putting the camera in, uh, clearing the codes, probably running through some kind of self-check and driving it. And if the light stayed off, it was shipped. And, you know, the high— the high and mighty in the industry want to get really mad at those technicians for doing that or not following the process.

1:22:30And I can see both sides, but I mean, here's the thing. If it— let's say it's not ADAS. Let's just say it's an alignment. Look at how long it takes you to do an alignment on some of these cars now before we even bring the ADAS in. Let's look at some of these high-end European cars and look at what the real time is to do an alignment.

1:22:46It's not an hour job, you know, so much more. Well, if we can't even get people to pay more money for the alignment, you're not going to get them to pay more money for the ADAS. Because when the alignment's off, they'll definitely be able to tell you that it's off. Oh, it won't track. I got, you know, drifts. The steering wheel's not straight, blah, blah, blah.

1:23:06Where depending on how they drive, the ADAS could be off and they might never even know until that one time that they've got the cruise on and it's late at night and they're driving and, you know, it's dark and, you know, they come up on somebody that they don't see because they looked behind them for a second and the child in the back or nodded off, who knows.

1:23:26Well, they just— what happens? Big fiery crash. Like, and then who do you— like, how do you say the forensics to be able to go back and actually point the finger at who is responsible for that? Richard Falko was talking just the other day. It's still going to be very hard to be able to blame that on the last person that calibrated it, but it's something we all have to think about.

1:23:47So I think it's going to be, you know, going forward, a lot of us technicians are going to have to take the, the advocacy stance and say, no, this is the right thing to do. And if I'm going to do it, I have to do it the right way and you have to pay me for it or else I don't want to touch it because, you know, I'm liable.

1:24:10Yeah. You know, does that scare you to have the liability come back? Yeah. Oh yeah, a little bit. I mean, that's— I mean, I guess it's no different than doing brakes or whatever. Yeah. But I mean, it's, you know, they— the government got mad when you would take TPMS off, and that was just a warning sensor. So you're starting to miscalibrate, or it's not— not be able to care the or not care, not get the time that you say to do the job properly.

1:24:49Uh, yeah, that's coming back on you is a pretty big fear. So hoping that it doesn't come down to that, but then, you know, you hear about it and you're like, was that something that I did? Yeah. Yeah, because I'm still the same way. Like, I, I'm pretty good for remembering cars when I see them, license plates and stuff in my parking lot.

1:25:14And I know I worked on it last and it might have been 3, 4 months ago, but I'm asking like, what's that here for? Because, you know, it might have been like an intermittent problem and I hadn't seen it 3 months and I was patting myself till my arm was broke on my back thinking I fixed it. And I was like, nope, it's— they're hearing it again.

1:25:30Or, oh no, remember that stall? Yeah, it happened again. You know? And then you're like, oh, so, you know, I don't— I don't— I'm not kept awake at night anymore like I used to be. But that being said, you know, when we get into more and more— like, we take a bumper off to put a condenser in, you know, and, and, you know, you can tell everybody in the world that, you know, okay, you need to go get a calibration done, but we don't do that here.

1:26:01So, you know, you need to call this person and, uh, make this appointment, and it's going to cost X. And they go, okay, and they drive out of there not understanding a word you said. And then something happens. Who's at fault? I mean, you could make the argument that like really how we should handle that is built it into the estimate when you gave them the estimate to put the condenser in, and that's the right thing to do.

1:26:27And then sublet it out ourself. And then yeah, we should do that that way. But then there's always somebody that's like David Roman says, they don't read the service information, they don't read the flipping manual, as Brian says. And they don't know, and they take it apart, no warning light comes on, they give it back to the customer, and everybody's thinking they're completely fine.

1:26:49And then something happens, you know. Yeah. Um, that's what scares me. That's what scares me. So, you know, we, we've always had a big responsibility in this industry to do things right so that people are safe, but I think as we keep adding more layers to it, it keeps coming The onion gets bigger, you know. What, um, what frustrates you about the job?

1:27:18Like, we kind of talked about the parts thing. Is that the biggest frustration right now for you? Uh, yeah, I guess the part thing would be— I mean, luckily we use like NAPA and WorldPac, so there is some labor kickback. It takes time, and then you got to do the right steps to, to get it approved and stuff, which is good, but it's still, it's still frustrating when you've changed the part 3 or 4 times and keep using the same part because it has the warranty on it rather than just upgrading to— now we've had time, we could have gotten an OEM part.

1:27:58Um, yeah. That I would say that or sometimes there's like a lack of ambition of wanting to perform the steps correctly. Right. So that's a little frustrating to see because like, you know, that if it were you, like, it would— those are the steps that you would do to get to that conclusion. And then somebody else does it and you're like, well, I don't understand, like, why you didn't go in this.

1:28:41Yeah, sometimes service manual specifically says it goes through the step. They just ignore the service manual, don't look at it, try to do what they can, which is fine. You don't learn unless you try. But I guess that would be like the lack of ambition or seeing it as there's no, I guess, no heart in it. Like, you just see it as a job.

1:29:05Yeah. So like, I work on cars all day. I get home, I have 2 project cars I work on. Okay, cool. When I get done with that, I watch car YouTube stuff. So I'm in it as a mechanic. I, I've always been into cars, so my heart is into cars. So I see this as a career, but I also still really enjoy it.

1:29:35Uh, and some people just see it as a job, which is fine. They don't have to be into it like I am. So it's not, it's not every day that Yeah, you want to spend 20 hours a day working cars, looking at cars, watching car stuff. So yeah, I, I was like you. Uh, I was ate completely up with it, right? Like, I, I was— before I had a driver's license, I was reading Hot Rod magazine and I was watching, you know, all the car shows.

1:30:05And then I'm gonna really date myself, you know, like, uh, it went from watching, you know, the Nashville Network on Saturday morning things with the— all the car shows. To then it was like Monster Garage with Jesse James and, you know, oh yeah, all this kind of stuff. And it's like I just, I just was always around it. And now sometimes I sit there and I think like I've lost some of my fire or I lost some of my passion for it.

1:30:31And then I remember that like it hasn't— that it's gone away, it's just kind of changed. It shifted to what I'm doing now, which is having these conversations, right? And it's like Yeah, you know, we were joking the other day, like some guy went by with something with a really loud exhaust on it, and the old me is like, what a moron.

1:30:48Like, you know, can't even— I've got to talk louder now because this dickhead is going by, you know, with straight pipes on his motorcycle or something. But then it's like we go and pull this Demon Challenger into the shop, uh, because we're trying to sell it for a customer sublet. And, you know, the salesman pulls it in and then just raps the throttle 4 or 5 times, right?

1:31:10Wide open throttle. It sounds awesome. And I'm like, that's cool as hell. So, I mean, you know, I think it's more of a timing thing for me and a perspective thing because it's like, I don't, you know, do I sit there as much as I used to when I was a kid and stare at the high performance stuff? No, I'm, you know, project cars to me don't really interest me anymore.

1:31:30And you know, like high performance, I just look at it and I go, high cost, you know. Even me, like as a Jeep guy, I look at these trail rigs and I go, ugh, I wouldn't even want to drive that, you know. Meanwhile, it's so capable in its element that it's cool as hell. But I'm like, oh, all I see is that as I see it was work.

1:31:51But then I realized that like I get on here and have these conversations sometimes like I'm talking 6, 7 hours a week about our industry and what we're doing and all that kind of stuff. Some people wouldn't want to have 20 minutes of that conversation before they'd be so frustrated or bored. So I think it's not that I've lost the fire, it's just shifted, it's changed, right?

1:32:13So I'm glad that you're, you're still, I guess I'll say, ate up in it, because it's like, you know, I, I can't find the motivation to go out and like you know, change the front brakes on my Jeep right now in my own driveway. Like, I can't find that anymore. I'm just like, I'll make time one day when I'm at the shop, you know?

1:32:32Yeah. Because I don't want it— like, I'm like, oh, get down on my hands and knees in the driveway. No, I don't want to do that. But, you know, the, the 30-year-old me would have been like, oh yeah, no problem, 2 hours, done, you know? The 50-year-old me is like, it's also a beautiful day, man, and I can like go, you know, launch the boat and fish.

1:32:53So I, you know, like, I have a lift here at the house that I put in when we moved here. And I still, like you said, just do it at the shop. When, if it's something easy, I'm like, I just don't feel like pulling it in, putting it up, dragging tools from the garage to the shop. So yeah, I can see that.

1:33:17I'm at the shop, I'm already dirty. Let's go ahead and let's go ahead and just do it then. Yeah, knock it one extra hour, you know, while I'm already dirty and I'm out of home. So like with the hoist at home, that's mostly for your project cars. You're not, you don't find yourself having to do side work or stuff like that, or?

1:33:36Uh, I don't do it as much when we moved here. Uh, the last house we were at, we were like in, in town, so I would do nights, weekends, and it was a word-of-mouth business and it was pretty good. But moving out here, I'm, you know, 15, 20 minutes off the main road, right? And about 30 miles from a town. So it's hard to get people to come out here.

1:34:06It's usually friends and friends of friends now that are doing it, but it's It's not like a full-time side job. So I've thought about doing mobile mechanic because there's— I'm out where there's a bunch of ranchers, right? So, and with us being, you know, 25, 30 minutes from town, it's kind of hard for them to get away. So I've looked into doing the trailer and slowly doing weekends and offering what I can.

1:34:38But I'm 44, so to start up working full-time and then doing full-time at night, and with the animals that we have and my wife, it's, you know, that's a lot of work. Now, are you hoping at some point to be your own businessman, your own boss? Is that kind of the— I mean, yeah, before we moved I mean, yeah, before I moved, I was going to build a shop at the house and just do that.

1:35:07It was to the point where I could have done that. Right. But moving out here and having to start over, it's a, it's a little tough. I'd like to do it. Or even the last shop I was at, I took the job specifically to take over the company because the owner wanted to retire. And then after 2 and a half years, he says, I want to go another 5 years.

1:35:30Yeah, I didn't really want to wait that much longer to take it over. Um, but I think that's, um, most people want to try and get it in themselves, and I would love to do that. I've, you know, am able to keep myself busy enough, then yeah, that would be the goal. Yeah, I, I can tell you that, like, I, I feel like at 50, like, that ship has sailed for me.

1:35:57Other people tell me that, you know, you still have lots of time and you should. And then other parts of me are just like, you know, like, I'm good where I am. Like, I'm making good money where I work. You know, the podcast, it's a pretty flexible schedule. That's the main thing, right? Like, I've had other offers and people, you know, still shoot me a message probably once a month saying, you know, we're hiring, you know, heard about you, we'd like you to come on.

1:36:22And it's like, It sounds good until they talk about, well, we're open Saturdays. Yeah, yeah, that's it. That's a no for me. Or, or, you know, we work on this pay plan, and I'm like, that's a no for me. Um, you know, or it's like, we, we wanna work into these type of cars, and I'm like, no, that's a no for me too, because based on how The other 2 may work.

1:36:50So I don't know if I'm in my coasting phase of my career. I probably am. But it's not a lack of passion. It's just like, I know what I know and I know what I'm good at and I know what I'm comfortable with. And I think that that's like, it took me a long time to get to that kind of comfort and knowledge.

1:37:14I think as we age sometimes, you know, I think we're slowly— we're conditioning ourselves sometimes by the way we ingest information too, that we're changing the way we learn. And I know 30-year-old me could learn really effectively and really fast, and 50-year-old me, man, it's like weapons-grade ADHD. Like, I get so distracted now and it's so hard to focus. And, you know, I don't know what's caused that.

1:37:47I don't know if it's TikTok brain, as David Roman says, or, you know, too much doom scrolling or what. But I find that it's just like I can learn when I'm at work, I'm learning on the job, but it's really hard now to come home and like put in that other 40 hours that like my friend Brian talks about that makes you exceptional.

1:38:08Like I can put in 10 to 20. No problem. But, you know, hypothetically, round numbers, right? But that full whatever, like the way I used to be ate up with this, where it's like no car was going to kick my butt and I had to know everything, and I'm just not there anymore, you know. Um, I still don't give up at work, but I say that I don't give up work because I'm more— I already know that's not me.

1:38:35That one that you're coming in and you want, I already know that's not me. I'm not your guy. So maybe that's just the difference now. I'm not sure. So do you feel like that, that you're getting that way? I mean, still like the challenge. But yeah, there's, you know, when I've looked at jobs, it's like, yeah, I don't really want to work on domestics that much anymore.

1:38:58Or yeah, it's, it's, you know, beyond my scope. And yeah, I don't want to learn that. Or I've made it this far and I haven't had to learn that. So what's the— why add to it? But I think keeping myself busy helps with staying focused more. But when it shuts off, then I'm just like, what do I do? Like, it's just because I've done— or I consistently just keep myself busy with cars.

1:39:32And then I'm like, I should shut it off. Then what do I do? Like sit around and try and figure out like a new hobby or something, but I'm already like keeping busy with this stuff. Now let me ask you, because I don't want to keep you all night long, but let me ask you then, the young people that are coming in, Sean, do you feel like they're different than you and I when we came in?

1:39:57And do you feel like they have to be as eaten up about this as, as you are to be successful? Or do you think that they can— like, are they gonna be unsuccessful if they're not? Like, what do you think they have? I don't think they have to. I've worked with people that could just care less about cars after work. But they're really good at what they're doing.

1:40:25They're, you know, I think— I don't think that, like, like you said, watch— growing up and watching like David Stacy or Gears or whatever, I don't think that's around anymore. It's mostly like you said, TikTok. It's, yeah, 30 seconds, 2 minutes, whatever. Uh, so their attention to that's that short of a time. Like, it's just That's how much they think about it.

1:40:56But I still think there's going to be a generation that it's all going to be computer-based or it just won't be part of the car, like the car part of it. It's just going to be another machine. For them to, to, to figure out. And if they don't, I think it needs— like, it needs to keep them busy enough to, to keep their mind stimulated, but I don't think it needs to, to be able to take up all their time, right?

1:41:43Because there, there are starting to be like us where Um, like you said, like not, not consuming your life. And this is what I like to work on, this is what— so there's going to be those more specific people that I see on like Indeed and stuff. Yeah, you drive around and only do ADOS. Yes. So they're not having to be like ASE and do all 8 sections or 10 or whatever it is now, uh, so they can focus on just one part of it.

1:42:21What, uh, in closing, what do you think is the biggest obstacle right now with the, the young people and the shortage? Like, what do you think is the main contributing factor and how do we, how do we get through it? I would say that people are having a hard time getting in because there's no— because there is a shortage. There's not— they want to get a body inside, and that person doesn't have necessarily the right training, or they don't want to spend the time to train them.

1:42:53So they're getting into it and like making mistakes and then getting, you know, yelled at for making that mistake, but they were never taught the right way to do it. I think that, that, I mean, that would scare me away. Yeah. Because I wasn't properly trained. But then there's also like when I went to school, there was like there were trade schools and around here they're starting to close up.

1:43:25Teachers are retiring. Nobody wants to fill back in the space. Yeah. So there's no— there's less classes. And when even when I took it back in 2011, The one of the teachers retired after being a teacher for 30 years and they could never fill a spot, so they just ended that program altogether. And it took me 7 semesters to get into the program.

1:43:48So I did all my prereqs before, but I kept trying to get into that program every single quarter and it turned it in like, sorry, I can only do a lottery because so many people want to get in this class. So there's not like stable teaching out there anymore. And then the— somebody might not want to go through that whole process of waiting to get into a class.

1:44:12They'll just find the next thing that's relevant to that field. So if we could get more programs like what we have, where you start as a lube tech, if you can get them in early enough, or You know, we do working interviews to see what you're capable of doing. I think if more shops did that and not necessarily like just having them come in and, you know, my shop pays for working interviews, so you're not getting taken advantage of.

1:44:47And that way he knows that he's wanting to invest in you to see what you're doing, if you're capable of doing it. So it's not like a time waster on both sides. I want you to work with us for the day so we both can— you can see how we work and we can see how you work. And we're willing to pay you to not just waste your time.

1:45:12Yeah. And not, you know, you're not just doing an interview to make it look like we can't find anybody. So I think if more shops did that, then you might have a better candidate pool. Yeah, I think, I think like what you've got where you're working right now, I think is a testament to your boss and the ability that he understands, you know, there's a sequence and a pathway for a young hire to come in and become very successful in this industry.

1:45:42And I think that that's a really good, you know, he represents I think a great ideal about what we have to do going forward. And I mean, it's a funny thing. We get talking, everybody wants certifications or everybody doesn't want certifications, but they say they're coming. And, you know, ASE, you know, got purchased by Wrenchway and all this kind of stuff. And I mean, you know, I don't even really know what that looks like.

1:46:09And, you know, ASE where I am is not a thing. But certification and government licensing where I am is very much a thing. It's the only thing. Um, and I, you know, it's not a fix. I gotta keep saying that. It doesn't fix all the problems, man. Not even close. Um, you know, it doesn't. I don't even think it necessarily brings up average technician competency.

1:46:34But I, I only say that because I'm not exposed to too many technicians that didn't go through the program. So I can't say. Now, if— and again, the, the people outside of my country that I network with, we're talking less than 5%. So they're already the, you know, the people that are like involved in this podcast and, you know, involved in the groups of how you and I come to know each other and all that kind of jazz.

1:47:00We're talking— they're the 5%. They're the outliers already. So, you know, if I can interact with more people that didn't have the kind of the background that I did and how we had to come up or how you came up, maybe I could make the argument that yes, you definitely need certification because it keeps these— this level from, you know, down. But I don't think so.

1:47:20I think it comes back to drive and ability and ambition and enthusiasm and the want to be good and the want to not have it beat you. The car. And I think if we can get more people in with that kind of passion and we don't grind them up and spit them out and run them through the gauntlet of really high incentivized flat rate pay, I think we fix this.

1:47:54Because I think the buzzword's culture, but it's really the culture of the industry is the culture of the industry. It already is what it is. And I mean, everybody I think knows what it is. And it's not looking real great right now, but it's looking better because we're having a conversation. And so, you know, I think what we have to do is just continue to stay the course of recognizing where we're failing and then talking about it and then starting to implement little changes, um, that address it and try to do something good.

1:48:27Because like You know, for it being called the Jaded Mechanic Podcast, I'm not the jaded guy that everybody thinks I am. But what I am is somebody that like has had a lot of talk with a lot of people about where they were and are and headed and what they love about this. And I can tell you that like there's a lot of people that like they stayed in it because there was something in them.

1:48:55That kept them in it. And it was that resiliency to, I have to know, I have to fix it. And I don't think you can teach that, but I think we can make it a lot more enticing to people where they want to be that. And then, you know, you're going to find those people that have that kind of attribute and they're going to just gravitate towards us and it's just going to take time.

1:49:18It's not a money thing. You know, people's every comment, every short is it is. It's just a pay thing. The pay is the pay, and it's— but if you feel good about what you do, like if you go home at the end of the day and you feel that reward that you— we had that eureka moment and you fixed that car and you got paid well, it's not really about the pay then, you know.

1:49:43Yes, you have to get paid well, but it's not like you have to be paid more than your, you know, neighbor that does drywall. Or your cousin that does plumbing. That euphoria of being that endorphin kick is the culture. And then the pay will be good and it may not be the best, but it will be something that I think most of us can be happy in.

1:50:13And if we can get that and sell that to the young people, I think we're gonna do good. So what, um, closing thoughts, Sean? What do you think, man? Where do you want to be in 2 years? Uh, I would say like I've, uh, wanted to get into the ADOS stuff a little more, so learning that will be a challenge with not having the ability to like put it down.

1:50:48So, but, you know, I hope to be at the same place. I've been there for 3 and a half years. And it's like you said, he has great culture, the training's great, you know, he pays for us to go to trainings, the outside, outside of the shop, you know, we're all friends, we hang out with each other, we do like excursions. With the shop.

1:51:13So the culture's there. And having that as like a stepping stone, like not having to worry about that stuff, allows me to be able to want to go out and advance my knowledge some more. But being able to figure out where I should branch that to is going to be based off how am I going to be able to apply it. Yeah, so I hope to, once I start to figure it out, feed him and hope that he wants to do the next step and bring it on or try it.

1:51:52Or, you know, he's in a network with a bunch of other small shops. Maybe they have that ability there that we could go and, yeah, try it. So, um, but besides that, it's just like more outdoor stuff like camping, hunting, and all that. Uh, we moved to like a part of the state that it's, you know, there's thousands of lakes around here, plenty of places to go camping when it's not on fire.

1:52:24So hoping to spend more time outside. Yeah, the next 2 years and explore like what's around us. It's good for the peace of mind, isn't it, when you're out in nature? That's what I found. You know, 100%. Like, it's— nothing's better to recharge me than to just, uh, you know, reconnect. Like, just get out in nature and get away from the noise and fish.

1:52:47You know, it's such a simple, simple activity, uh, and it's not a cheap activity, although it doesn't have to be as expensive as I make it. But, um, you know, it's definitely something about it. And that's what I just tell everybody, is you can be ate up with cars, it's all good. You know, but make sure that you're able to unplug from the job and keep that passion alive because I think that that's how you have a long successful career in this.

1:53:15And, you know, Sean, I want to thank you for coming on today. I don't want to keep any more of your time. I'd love to see you guys if you and your boss can make it to a destination event. I think that'd be really cool. I think you guys would love it. You know, we've got one coming up. Uh, Asta is really, really coming up fast.

1:53:35We're, you know, just about 2 months away for that. And then, you know, I'll be at SEMA Apex in Vegas in November. So, you know, that's— as somebody that's been a car guy their whole life like you, uh, I tell everybody that's one trip everybody should make once, is just see, see it, experience it. Uh, it's an expensive trip. Vegas is not a cheap city, but it's not as bad as everybody makes it out to be, is my point.

1:54:03And, um, I mean, what you get out of it is worth it, I would assume, at that point. I haven't made it there, but yeah, I've always wanted to go there. I've worked at shops that have like tried to get in there, or buddy that works at a shop and he's like, I'll get you on payroll and we'll get you in there.

1:54:17But, uh, I think it would be worth it. Yeah, yeah, it can relight your passion for sure. So anyway, Sean, I want to thank you for being here today. I gotta let you go. Um, I don't want to, you know, it's been a long day. And, um, please reach out to me, keep me informed on what's going on, you know. Uh, we'll, we'll have you back again.

1:54:42I'd love to continue to see where you are, you know. Uh, if I can reach out to anybody, you know, if you need a hand in trying to figure out how you dip your toe into the ADAS thing, get a hold of me and I'll be able to point you in the direction of people that have done it. And, um, you know, that'd be great.

1:54:58Yeah, thank you again for coming on here today. I really appreciate it. Um, to my family at, you know, uh, Launch Tech USA and Techmetric, thank you guys for everything you do for us. Um, you make this all possible, and, um, I hope to see a lot of you at ASTA and again at APEX, you know, and, and If you can't make it to one of those 2 shows, but, you know, try to make it to a show.

1:55:22I think you'll find that it'll really recharge your batteries and really, you know, if you're missing some of that passion, it's a great way to reignite it. So everybody, thank you very much. I love you and we'll talk to you soon. Sean, thank you, brother. Thank you. Hey, if you could do me a favor real quick. And like, comment on, and share this episode, I'd really appreciate it.

1:55:47And please, most importantly, set the podcast to automatically download every Tuesday morning. As always, I'd like to thank our amazing guests for their perspectives and expertise, and I hope that you'll please join us again next week on this journey of change. Thank you to my partners in the ASAR Group and to the Changing the Industry podcast. Remember what I always say: in this industry, you get what you pay for.

1:56:08For it. Here's hoping everyone finds their missing 10mm, and we'll see you all again next time.