Ep 175: Why Change Doesn't Have to Be Scary with Joe Flammer
With Joe Flammer
Now playing — The Limitless Leadership Podcast
About this episode
In this episode, Josh Parnell is with Joe Flammer, Account Executive at Broadly and former auto repair marketing professional, about leading through change, embracing feedback,…
Key takeaways
- —Feedback is a gift that can lead to personal and professional growth.
- —Navigating change requires faith over fear, especially during acquisitions.
- —Understanding your blind spots is crucial for effective leadership.
- —AI can be a powerful ally in enhancing business operations and marketing.
- —Intentionality in leadership can significantly impact team dynamics and outcomes.
Frequently asked
- How can I effectively receive feedback without taking it personally?
- View feedback as a gift that can help you grow. Remember that it’s an opportunity to improve rather than a personal attack.
- What should I do if my shop is acquired?
- Focus on the skills you bring to the table, as they are valuable in any acquisition. Stay adaptable and open to new opportunities that may arise.
- How can I identify my blind spots as a leader?
- Seek honest feedback from trusted individuals who are not directly connected to your work. This can provide insights into areas for improvement that you may not be aware of.
▸Full transcript
What you know about yourself, you can change. What you don't know controls you. I get very businesslike, very hard-lined, can be very harsh, and I have to fight that all the time. That's stimulus and response. Yeah. All the time with kids, with teammates, with, with everything. Um, and so giving that space intentionally and asking somebody, and I think you have to really, when you are asking somebody, you can't go to somebody who gets their paycheck from you, they're not going to be honest, right?
You maybe go to your best friend, but you really have to give them the opportunity. You're listening to the Limitless Leadership Podcast, the podcast designed to help automotive repair shops learn how to lead, coach, train, and manage their team better by sharing proven techniques and thought-provoking interviews from industry leaders. Are you ready to transform your leadership skills by tapping into unrecognized potential?
To achieve limitless results. Let's get ready for liftoff. It's time to go from great to greater. Here's today's episode. Hello everyone, and welcome back to another episode of the Limitless Leadership Podcast. Before we get started, don't forget to like, comment, subscribe. Be sure to do all the things you need to on social media to help this podcast impact people and build leaders just like the leader I'm meeting with today.
My friend is the account executive for Broadly, or an account executive. You know, I'm gonna say you're the account executive for Broadly. The, okay, I'll take it. Thank you. Yeah. Joe Flammer. Uh, Joe, thank you for being here, man. Hey man, I'm super excited to, super excited to be with you today, man. It's a, it's a great day. I've been following you for a while, you know, watching, watching some of the podcasts and so super excited to be on here.
Thanks for having me. Well, of course, man. It's, hey, it's my pleasure and I'm excited to get to know you more, Joe. I'm excited for our audience to get to know you more. Um, you know, you and I had an opportunity to connect, uh, not too long ago, and I was like, we gotta get Joe on the podcast. Like, it was a great conversation.
I felt like we connected pretty quickly. Um, so with that being said, go ahead and share with the audience, Joe, who you are, what you do, and how you do it. Promotive is the recruiting engine dedicated to helping modern automotive shops hire better and grow stronger. With deep aftermarket experience, they know shop operations, the technician talent market, and how transformative the right hire can be.
Promotive runs a full hands-on recruiting process. They find active and passive talent, screen candidates with intention, and guide everyone through a clean, professional hiring experience. The result is a pipeline of candidates who are aligned, prepared, and ready to contribute. Shops work with Promotive because they deliver consistency, clarity, and real results. They take on the heavy lifting so shops can stay focused on customers, operations, and growth.
If your shop needs to hire or wants to build a better recruiting pipeline, Visit gopromotive.com, start a search, schedule a conversation, and see why so many shops trust Promotive to find the right technicians. This episode is brought to you by Limitless Leadership because great teams don't happen by accident. They're led on purpose. If you're tired of wearing all the hats, putting out fires, and wondering why your team won't step up, Limitless Leadership is for you.
They help leaders transition from player to coach who develop people and multiply impact through in-person or online leadership training like the Limitless Leadership Blueprint, or their Roots to Results coaching method, their services are designed to help you tap into unrecognized potential to achieve limitless results and help you create safety and trust in order to provide clarity and direction. So if you're ready to stop managing chaos and start leading with purpose, head to limitlessleadership.co to book a complimentary discovery call today.
Sure. So my name is Joe Flammer, as you already know, and I'm an account executive for Broadly. So for those of you in the auto repair space, even any of the home services, you may have heard of Broadly before. We've done a lot of pieces in the past for reputation management. So seen a lot of the Broadly team in the past at different auto repair conferences and pieces like that.
And in the past, I had worked in marketing specifically in the auto repair space, which is where I kept on seeing Josh come up with former clients and friends still in that space. And what I have really done is just help businesses grow, figuring out, okay, what is it that's really needed from the marketing perspective, from the marketing side? Not just here's our one resource and we're going to give you that one resource, but really what is the mix that's needed to accomplish your goals?
So I love the strategic piece of that. People who have worked with me in the past would realize that kind of every time that somebody would come back to me and say, Hey, car count's up from what it used to be, but we need more. We just hired another tech. We just built on 2 more bays. That would always scare me a little bit, and then you go to work.
And that's the part that I love doing. So that's what I'm doing today is still continuing to help businesses grow through good marketing. And the other piece that we're doing with Broadly is Broadly has really evolved from what maybe a lot of the industry would've known 5, 6 years ago to to where we're doing a lot of AI. So really to help small businesses kind of out of the box, what aligns up, what is really helpful for those businesses to convert the leads that they're getting now, to manage the workflows, to do the automation.
So that's a real fun piece of what I'm doing now. Awesome. Well, I appreciate you sharing that, Joe, and I just really value, admire, and respect the fact that you are, like many of us, someone who recognizes AI is an ally, not an enemy. And I think that for anyone who is still utilizing or rather exercising fear in relation to AI, the reality is like we're missing an opportunity here.
I mean, AI is here to stay whether we like it or not. But when we know how to leverage AI for our benefit and for the growth and the success of our business, I mean, that's a massive win. And the good news is you are at the forefront of leading that charge. And so I wanna commend you for that. Um, share with the audience how you got into, uh, let's, let's go back for a little bit cuz I'm sure there, there's correlation with Turnkey Marketing, uh, a company you were with, uh, formerly.
Um, there's a relationship there that I'd love for you to share with the audience, but how did you get into the industry and then how did you get to Broadly? Leading a shop can be isolating, especially when you're trying to grow and still take care of your people. The good news is you don't have to piece it together alone. Techmetric is the all-in-one platform built for shops and growing operators who want less chaos and more clarity.
Shop management, integrated payments, and built-in marketing all working together in one place. No bouncing between tools, no syncing issues, no missed opportunities, just a cleaner operation, a stronger customer experience, and a business that's built to grow. See how it works at techmetric.com or use the link in the show notes. Sure. So a lot of the audience probably knows my sister, Carolyn Rodenberg.
Who is the founder of Turnkey Marketing. Turnkey is excellent. I still sing its praises, still will tell people to go and use Turnkey. I don't know of anybody else who's doing that kind of at the level that they're doing and just believed in it so much and saw so many wins for our clients. Still super close with Turnkey and a lot of the staff there and of course my sister.
So really believe in what they're doing. And when I got involved with Turnkey, Kari Lynn was on a growth trajectory with helping businesses in the auto repair space. Specifically lining up with a lot of the coaching groups in the space. And that's how I got started and how I got to know a lot of the people around the country and spent a lot of time setting up booths at trade shows and coaching events and also working on the actual marketing for my clients.
So getting to know a lot of the people who you and I both know, I think some of the sponsors for your show, I think we've probably worked with all the sponsors of your show in the past and Really love all of them. They're great folks. So worked for them for a while and then about a year and a half ago, another marketing agency here in Kansas City came and had a really great opportunity for me and it was just a good opportunity for my family and I at that point.
So made the switch and was working for a company here in Kansas City, mainly with local companies and then our largest software partner, which is Broadly and their parent company Vendasta. Actually acquired our company about 7 months ago. And so that has been a journey for anybody who's been part of an acquisition. Josh, I know you have some background with kind of corporate America with Christian Brothers and things.
And so that was definitely a change for me. But it's a, I mean, it's on the forefront of AI, on the forefront of how the industry is changing, the marketing industry and marketing technology. Is really what they do. So that's been, uh, a really cool journey and coming across some of the people, even a guy some of you might know, Christiani, who has been with Broadleaf for a long time, who I used to see at trade shows and events, uh, a lot.
And so getting back involved with that has been really cool. That's incredible. So, um, let me ask you, like, what— there's a lot of, there's a lot of acquisitions happening right now across the automotive repair industry. Yes. And, um, There with that, for some, there is some trepidation and there are some fears because if I'm an employee at an automotive repair shop and all of a sudden I get acquired by private equity, um, I start thinking, oh wow, is my job still gonna be here tomorrow?
And, and the reason I bring this up is because what we know is that our thoughts dictate feelings, our feelings dictate actions, and our actions dictate our results. And for many of us, understanding how to navigate the thoughts that we're having, knowing that we have up to 60 60,000 thoughts per day. Studies show that 80% of our thoughts are negative, 90% of our thoughts are repetitive, and one of the greatest mistakes any of us can make is assuming all of our thoughts are actually true.
How do I navigate change? Now, when I talk about this type of change, an acquisition is a massive change for anybody, but change in general, you, you went through change 7 months ago when your company was acquired. How do you navigate change? Like, how do we get over fear and exercise faith over fear? That's a great question. And, it's a muscle I've had to exercise a lot in the past.
So, before my auto repair days, I actually was a pastor and did mission work overseas. And, we had moved over to New Zealand in 2007, moved cities within New Zealand a year and a half later, went through a bunch of earthquakes after that and had a lot of change that happened in moving industries. And that is absolutely fear-inspiring, right? Those kinds of things.
And stress is really just change. How much change are you going through? So really had to learn to navigate that. And through different experiences in life, got to learn a lot, had some really good coaches who have walked me through some of those times of change and how to navigate that. And I think for me, you use the word faith. That's a big component of who I am, what I believe, what fuels me, and the faith that knowing, to use a cliché, I don't know what the future holds, but I know who holds the future, right?
And knowing that in my past and in my beliefs that all things work for the good of those who love him and have been called according to his purpose. So for me, holding on and just knowing, hey, I don't know what's going to happen here. But I know that even if it's not the outcome that I'm looking for, it's going to work out well in the end.
And so holding onto that has been really helpful. And then just knowing, I think looking back on the past when you have navigated a lot of change and realize, man, things generally worked out okay. Even if it wasn't what I was anticipating, like I'm still in a house, I haven't missed a meal. You know, my family's doing good. And so I think that kind of muscle memory of, man, we've had brushes, things that seemed really bad and they worked out okay.
I don't know if you've read much of Malcolm Gladwell, but I'm a big Gladwell guy and I think it's him that talks about in World War II how it was the people in England who during the Blitzkrieg, Germany comes over, drops all these bombs, and everybody was scared. They thought they were going to break the psyche of the people right away. But what they discovered is there were a lot of near misses and the near misses, a bomb would drop on the empty shed beside your house and you would survive.
You're kind of like, I survived that. I'll be okay now. And it actually created this huge capacity for toughness and resilience within the British people. And I think also led by such an inspirational character like Churchill kind of, we're never going to surrender. And they went on and I mean, they kicked butt. They're awesome. They were stalwarts. So I think that having gone through, and I think specifically with this whole AI and acquisition piece, so I'll go to that acquisition piece.
It is a nerve-wracking thing when a company is acquired and you don't know who the new boss is. You don't know what the new plans are. And I've seen a lot of friends go through that as well. I think within the automotive repair industry in particular, the skill of technicians, I mean, you know this as well as I do, better than I do.
I mean, those are skills that are hard to replicate. That's right. And so there, I think for somebody, if I'm a technician working in a shop, knowing what I do about acquisition, your business has largely been bought because of your skill. And so that can really be a safeguard. What is the valuable thing in the acquisition? Sure, your customer list, recurring customers, but also the skill of your technicians.
So if you're a skilled technician, they're going to want you. And lots of times the company that comes in to acquire might not have the same relationship, but they have really good tools. So you get access to those really good tools. So I would, Definitely be wise. Think, hey, what could be a plan B if this doesn't work out, if they go a different direction?
But also say, hey, I'm going to prove that I'm good at what I do, that I am an asset to this company moving forward. And usually there are even more opportunities there for the people who do hang on and accept. Yeah, that's right. That's powerful perspective that you just shared, Joe. And I want to commend you for something that you that you mentioned also, you said, even if, you said, you know, even if this occurs, because you're exercising faith over fear and faith is even if, and fear is what if we can say, well, what if we get acquired?
Or we can say, hey, even if we get acquired, I'm going to exercise faith. And to your point about the future and who holds the future, what we know is that the similarity between faith and fear is that they both believe in a future that hasn't happened yet. So why wouldn't we choose faith? And what we know is that where there's faith, there's also fear.
Otherwise there wouldn't be a cause for faith. So it's okay to have the fear. It's a healthy dose of fear, if you will, but it allows you the opportunity to exercise faith over fear in the midst of all the things that are occurring. You mentioned having great coaches in your life. Normally I'd ask this question towards the end of the episode, but because you teed me up for it, I'm going to ask you right now.
What is the best advice that you've ever received from a coach or a mentor? Man, I've been super blessed to have great mentors in my life, great coaches in my life for a long time. One thing that I come back to all the time that my wife and I talk about all the time is when we are getting ready to move over to New Zealand, we went through this organization or we spent some time with this organization, great organization in Colorado Springs called Mission Training International.
And we spent 3 weeks with them preparing. We thought they were going to be teaching us about how to live in a different culture, but it was different from what we expected. And really what they were saying was you need to understand yourself because the struggles that you've had here, the limitations that you've had in America, they are just going to be exacerbated when you go overseas and you're dealing with a different culture, different people.
And they came, we did a ton of kind of the psychometric test, DISC, Enneagram, StrengthsFinder, all those kinds of things, met with counselors and coaches a lot. But one thing that they came back to over and over again, there was a man named Robin who was leading the program, South African man, great accent. And he would say, what do you know? I feel like because you mentioned the accent, you've got to say it in Robin's accent now.
Ooh, I'll try it. You know, I was just with a South African friend last night, so that helped refresh it. But What you know about yourself, you can change. What you don't know controls you. I don't know how good that was. My African accent is there. That's good, man. Hey, A for effort. I appreciate the effort. Thank you. What you know about yourself, you can change.
What you don't know can control you. What you don't know controls you. Okay. Can you elaborate on that? What you know about yourself, you can change. What you don't know controls you because they talked a lot about is the Johari window with the 4 quadrants. And so in the quadrant, and I wish I had a diagram, maybe you can add it later in the edits or something.
But there is kind of what we know about ourselves, what others know about ourselves, what others know about us. And then, and so in that, there's like this area where what I know about myself and what I can change, right? What I know about myself. And so it's what I know about myself, what others know about me, what I know about myself, what others know about me.
And the blind spot for everyone is what others know about me, but I do not know about myself. Okay. And so the goal here was learn more about yourself. And when you learn more about yourself and you realize what those blind spots are, how do other people perceive you? What are other people seeing that you have no idea about? And when you're aware of those things, the more aware that you are of those things, the more you can say, wait, this is my natural reaction.
This is what other people have said about me. I'm going to just take a beat. I'm going to, and I'm going to realize, hey, here's my natural reaction that might not serve me very well right now. And I'm going to choose something else. There's that great quote you've probably heard of by Viktor Frankl, who's a Holocaust survivor who wrote Man's Search for Meaning.
And he said, between stimulus, so it's what happens to us, and response, what we do with that, there's a space. And in that space comes our opportunity to choose our response. And in that space lies all of our opportunity for growth and our freedom. And so when you realize, wait, this is how I normally, this is my impulse, this is how I always respond.
I don't want to do that. I'm going to choose something different. That's where we can grow a lot. And so that what you know about yourself, you can change what you don't know controls you. Just learning more about myself. And there was some hard work. There was some gut-wrenching work in there that has continued at different times in my life. That's been really helpful.
And I think can be taken into anything that you do, anything that a person does. That's incredibly impactful. I mean, you touched, you just touched on something, Joe, um, that I, I often relate to my clients, uh, on coaching calls when we talk about regulating our emotions and, you know, emotional regulation being one of, if not the greatest skillset anyone, especially leaders, can possess.
Knowing that when emotions are high, logic tends to be low. Mm-hmm. Knowing that when knowing that emotional maturity is having feelings, but not letting our feelings have us. And one of the ways that we can exercise emotional regulation is to implement the 3 Ps, where we pause, we process, and we pivot. And what you're describing is that that space between stimulus and response is an opportunity for us to choose to pause, to simply pause, take a breath, remove ourselves, physically remove ourselves from the situation if the situation allows, then it allows for us to process what we're thinking, challenge the thoughts that we're having, question the thoughts that we're having, to give you a new
perspective on what you're experiencing. And with perspective, the way that we view things drives the way that we do things, which allows me to pivot accordingly. And yes, and I want to just commend you for a moment. Um, I, I, I'm a— I appreciate the fact that we're talking about the work that you do for yourself up here. And if you're listening, you can watch this episode on YouTube at The Bearded Leader.
I'm pointing to my head for a reason because many of us, like, look, I talk about improving our mental health on a regular basis. It is— our minds are the most valuable asset that we own. And if there's a gym on every corner that we can go work out and improve ourselves physically, why is improving our mental health still a taboo topic?
The fact that The fact that we're able to recognize, look, if I'm gonna strengthen the most important muscle that I own, which is my mind, I'm going to seek counseling, I'm gonna seek coaching, I'm gonna seek therapy, and all the other things that I can do to improve this. I'm pointing to my mind again. And so I commend you for the work that you do on yourself.
To me, what you're doing when you work on yourself first is leading yourself. So that you can adequately and effectively lead those around you. If I were to ask you, Joe, what does leadership mean to you? How would you answer that question? Yeah, it's a great question. Uh, and I think there are a few things. I think a lot of times when I think about leadership, there's just the simple fact leadership is anytime that you have influence over other people or a situation.
But that's super general. I think it's a little bit different from what I tend to think of when, especially with the people who are listening to something like this who are working on themselves, that leadership is that intentionality behind what the people that we lead, the organizations that we lead, the situations that we're in, how can we impact those intentionally, proactively? And And not just kind of be flying by the seat of our pants?
Or even when we are flying by the seat of our pants, how have we trained ourselves to be ready to fly well by the seat of our pants? So it's that, I think that intentionality piece and caring for the situation that we are in, and we don't all have the same framework for what that means, what the end result is, but I think that the intentional piece is something that we all share.
Or can't share. I like, I like what you just shared, uh, when you, when you said, how have we trained ourselves to be ready? Um, it reminds me of a, a quote from Chris Voss. He wrote a book called Never Split the Difference. And towards the back of that book, there's a quote that stood out to me that I still use to this day, which is when he says, when the pressure's on, we don't rise to the occasion.
We fall to our highest level of preparation. Yes. How are we training? Like, how are we preparing ourself for whatever it is that's going to come our way? Um, let me go back for, for a moment and, and ask about blind spots. Um, I, I love talking about blind spots. I, I like to, to even introduce this in trainings whenever I say, hey, look, if you're, if you're sitting here and you're, you're thinking, Josh, you don't know me, I don't have a blind spot, that's a blind spot.
Can you, Joe, can you talk to the, share with the audience, what does it mean to, to allow someone to speak truth into your life to help you identify the blind spots that will allow you to make changes in your life to better your life and those around you? Sure. Yeah. That's something that we had to do at that week that we were at.
We had to ask 3 people who were close to us to give us feedback. And there were 3 specific questions, and I can't remember what those questions were. And that was difficult to hear, that super vulnerable. And the feedback that I got from my younger brother, who at the time was probably, I was 26, so he was probably 21, but he had lived with us for a summer, the summer before with my wife and I.
And so got a really good front row seat into how we did things and how I was. And he gave me some feedback and he was kind of putting himself in first person. Hey, here's how you treat me when I forget to put the lawnmower away after I mow the lawn or whatnot. And I think the question was, how do I treat people in general?
How have I treated you? How have I treated my spouse? I think that was one of the things. And it was kind of hard feedback to hear, but wow, I get it. That makes so much sense. Okay, well, let's move on to the next question. How do I treat Amy? And he said, that's what I'm talking about. I was using myself as the example, and it was, I mean, that was super difficult for me.
And I think really in my life, it's feedback. It's the thing that I continue to work on the most. When I get very businesslike, very hard-lined, can be very harsh, and I have to fight that all the time. That's stimulus and response all the time with kids, with teammates, with everything. And so giving that space intentionally and asking somebody, and I think you have to really, when you are asking somebody, you can't go to somebody who gets their paycheck from you.
They're not going to be honest, right? You maybe go to your best friend, but you really have to give them the opportunity. I did a thing in grad school. This is probably 10 years ago. Called a T-group. Have you heard of these? I haven't. It's something that was really developed through Stanford University, and it's where you get 9 people, like 7 to 9 people in a circle.
One of them is the facilitator, and you have them in a circle and there's not an agenda. There's not a question to start. You sit in a circle and then whoever wants to talk first talks first. And they talk about whatever they want. And then the only real agenda to it is you're critiquing one another the whole time. So the first person who started out, I was the first person in our T group who started out and said something.
And somebody said, Joe, you're so pushy. You were the first one to talk. And then, wow, okay, good to know that you think that. And somebody else said, Veronica, you are always so critical of people. I think what Joe did was completely appropriate. We're sitting here waiting for a group to start. And somebody else said, John, why do you have to ask those questions all the time?
And it was just getting, and you're getting feedback and then writing notes on it. And so that was really helpful. But one of the rules in there is you couldn't be doing it with anybody that you knew beforehand because it's going to hurt the relationship. So that would be what I'd say is find somebody who maybe is a little bit arm's length away, that it's not going to hurt, you know, your dinner conversation that night.
But get that, get feedback from somebody who you can trust, but who maybe isn't in your household or who you pay. Is the idea to essentially subject yourself to the scrutiny and to the criticism in a way that will strengthen your ability to receive coaching, which is not criticism, condemnation, judgment. Coaching is feedback, um, and it allows you to essentially prepare the muscle to identify blind spots that might, you know, might be true or not.
But regardless, someone's bringing it to your attention. Um, is, is that the purpose for the T-Group? Yeah, absolutely. Um, and it's to get that feedback from people who can give it a little bit more anonymously and who it's not going to hurt them if they If they give me bad feedback, no skin off their nose. I'm not going to take their birthday away from them.
So they get to go home, but they've given that feedback and I've gotten that feedback. And you can take that and do something with it or say, no, I'm not going to do anything with it. I don't believe it. And some of it was great feedback also. People saying, hey, I really appreciate the way that you said this thing. Hey, I really appreciate the way that you listened to me well.
So there was positive feedback and there was also critique for growth. But it really did set up, I think, this idea. I think after going through something like that and speaking with other people who have gone through things like that, it helps you to look for the reactions of others. It helps you to say, man, I don't have all the answers. It helps you say, hey, there are some things that I do well and I can take confidence than that.
So there were a lot of different opportunities in there. I think we wound up spending like 6 hours in T-Group over the course of 3 different workshops. And so there was a lot of feedback and I still go back, have my notes on one of those shelves back there and I go back to them sometimes. That's good. That's powerful. It's always powerful to review previous notes.
When we write notes, it helps increase our chance of retention by 17%. You mentioned how it allows you to be around the reactions of others. And I think that whenever we're improving our effective— or when we're improving our communication to create effective communication, a big part of communication is being able to listen, to receive information, to process information, utilizing that information to best serve somebody, which then allows us to not just react, but it allows us to respond.
One of my favorite books, Joe, is called The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz. And, and one of the Four Agreements that he talks about is don't take things personal. Let me ask you, how do you, how do you train your brain, train your muscles to receive coaching or feedback or mentoring or whatever, you know, fill in the blank, and but not take things personal.
When someone shares a blind spot with you, it, it, we can receive it really tough and it can just weigh on us, or we can just not take things personal and recognize that this person is doing us a disservice by not sharing this with us. How do you, how do you receive this and not take it personal? Yeah, I think of a few good pieces is I, I'd say I'm still learning that.
That's a lesson that I still, need to learn a little bit more. But I think to be able to go and say that this is something that Carrie Lynn says all the time, feedback is a gift. So when, if ever a client, a turnkey would give feedback that was hard feedback, hey, this isn't working, or hey, I didn't like that. She would always say that.
And I learned that from her. Feedback is a gift. Feedback is a gift. I can learn from this. So I think that was really helpful to get out of that. And I think of something else that somebody who you've probably met before, Aaron Stokes, passed away, who's just going and spending a lot of time in the back of the room where he was speaking as a vendor was a huge influence in my life.
And something he said a lot was you can either have a big ego or a big wallet. You get to choose. And that affected me as well. And I've taught that to my kids as well. And so I think realizing, hey, feedback can be a gift. I get to choose what I do with that. Is that going to make me better? Is that going to make me more successful?
Or am I going to throw my toys out of the playpen and just get really upset about that? So that's been really helpful for me, is those 2 statements. And just learning that. There's also, you know, example, go back to, you know, the faith component in the Old Testament. David, there's this point where he's fleeing Jerusalem after his son had kind of staged a coup, and one of his enemies is throwing rocks at him and spitting at him and, you know, saying all these things.
And one of the soldiers says, you want me to go kill that guy? And he says, no, he's teaching me something right now. I'm learning from him. And so that's a you know, that's a really good, um, you know, teaching as well from David. Yeah, powerful, um, powerful stuff, man. Joe, I appreciate you being on the show. Uh, this will likely not be your, your only time on the podcast.
Uh, if anyone who is listening or watching this episode wants to get in touch with you, wants to learn more about you or Broadly or any of the services that you guys can provide, uh, how can we get in touch with you? Yeah, I'd say one way obviously is email jflammer at broadlysummit.com. The other way is just look up Joseph Flammer on LinkedIn or on Facebook.
Likely if you're watching this podcast, we have a lot of mutual connections, so it'll probably be pretty easy. And Flammer isn't a very popular name, so be pretty easy to pick me out. So look for Joseph Flammer and you're going to find me on there on the socials. Awesome. Sounds good. So Joe Flammer, F-L-A-M-M-E-R. Find Joe, connect with Joe. Uh, I can assure you, you're gonna walk away better from your conversation with Joe than when you came.
So Joe, again, man, thanks for being here. And, um, thank you for tuning in to another episode of the Limitless Leadership Podcast. As you know, we look to transform our leadership skills by, by, um, transforming— what, what do we look to do? We, we, we look to transform our leadership skills by tapping into unrecognized potential to achieve limitless results. I had a moment just now where I say the same thing so repetitively, it, it's second nature.
And then all of a sudden I had a, I had brain fart. Uh, but that's what we like to do. We like to tap into unrecognized potential to achieve limitless results. So, so thanks again everyone for being here. Uh, have a great day. Don't forget to smile today. Tell your loved ones how much they mean to you. I'm Josh Parnell reminding you to keep leading well.
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218 - What Your Opt-Outs Reveal: Your CRM Isn't Broken. It's Being Misused
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In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode. 👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://youtu.be/10RC8L1nKhM Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this! Links & Resources: Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com. Episode Transcript: Jimmy Lea: Hello, welcome. Glad to be with you today. It is Wednesday, so excited for Webinar Wednesday. Coming to you live from the road. I'm in Eugene, Oregon, here at Brian Slater's shop in Eugene, Oregon. This is the North Eugene Auto Repair in in Eugene, and so coming to you from the road. Thank you, Brian. Jimmy Lea: Appreciate you letting me use your office today as we're out and about visiting shops. It's just an awesome, gorgeous weather here in northern U- northern... no. I was gonna say northern Utah. I'm not in northern Utah. I'm in Eugene, Oregon, and this is not northern Utah, but it is gorgeous weather. Jimmy Lea: So if you don't have gorgeous weather where you are, you wish you were here. We're gonna have a great conversation today. Those of you who have comments, questions, comments, put them into the chat section. That chat section comments allows us to have this conversation back and forth. I will be the voice for You've got questions, comments, concerns for our guest, want to make sure that those are voiced for you, put them in the comments section. Jimmy Lea: My guest with us today is ever-present, ever-linguist, Mr. Craig O'Neill of AutoFlow. Craig, how the heck are you, brother? Craig O'Neill: I'm really good, Jimmy. Really good. I was actually thinking northern Utah, as you mentioned Utah, even though it was Oregon. Both places are beautiful. I can't blame you for the distinction issue there. Craig O'Neill: That was- that's all right. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. No it is absolutely gorgeous up here. Now, I will tell you that there is a large lack of mountains in Eugene, Oregon- ... Jimmy Lea: That northern Utah does have, is bounteous mountains. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. A lot of them. Yeah. I can't wait. Ogden, a couple, next month. Next month now is October. Jimmy Lea: Yes. October for the Mars Conference. Craig O'Neill: Yep. Jimmy Lea: Yes. Yes. Speaking of Mars Conferences we're gonna put up a QR code for the Mars Conference. If you scan this QR code, it will get you right onto our registration page, and those sticking around to the very end, there is this very special, very unique offer for anybody who wants to attend the Mars Conference. Jimmy Lea: So stick around, scan the QR code. Save that in your smartphones. We are gonna have a great conversation about marketing. Craig is one of our presenters at the Mars Conference, and super excited for Craig to be here. Craig and I have known each other for a couple of years now, and worked together at a couple of companies, and- Jimmy Lea: glad that we are able to still be friends here in this wonderful industry that we call home. Craig, what are we talking about today? Craig O'Neill: Jimmy, this is the, one of my favorite topics to go into. We're talking about CRM systems, of course. Now I have some opinions about CRM systems. Both of us come from a background that deals in these systems. Craig O'Neill: You have opinions as well, and you have some observations, and my observation is simply this: the systems themselves are capable of some pretty cool things- Jimmy Lea: Yeah ... Craig O'Neill: but we aren't using them very well. The it's not broken, they're being misused, is the title of our conversation today. Your CRM isn't broken, it's being misused. Craig O'Neill: And I don't like to walk into a conversation with "Oh, you're doing something wrong", or on the opposite side of it, I don't like to walk into a conversation as you guys are doing it right. You're just fine, but other people are doing it..." Like I, I've used stuff wrong. I've made mistakes in how I leverage the different systems and tools that are available, and I just believe, and I hope you just go along with us today, there might be a better way than our way that we're approaching it now. Craig O'Neill: Be open to that. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Be open to it, because what they're, what you as a shop may be doing today is working. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. It's not even a debate. It is getting results of a certain level and type that are appearing to be adequate. Jimmy Lea: Adequate for today. And hopefully with this conversation that you and I are gonna have as we talk about the customer relationship management software Hopefully there's something we can expose shops to that might say, "Hey, maybe there is a different way of doing this." Craig O'Neill: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: So what are these ways? What are the five mistakes that shops make the most, or not the mistakes. What, how can we help these shops improve? Sure. I would call Craig O'Neill: them hurdles that we have to get over, right? Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. This one it's an opportunity for us to make it better. It's an opportunity to make it better. Jimmy Lea: This is what it is. It's not a mistake. You're not doing it wrong. Consider this. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. We're gonna talk about a lot of things on this, and I think before we even get into those hurdles, let's talk about the nature of communication today. Yeah. People's attention span today, because I think that there's a couple of different things that we need to understand. Craig O'Neill: And first off, let's talk about why we even wanna leverage a CRM system. And for many shops, you might have a sustainable s- sort of automatic practice here, but when you're a busy shop, you feel very successful, and then all of a sudden things are not as busy as they are. This happens to all of us. All the time. Craig O'Neill: We've ... shop, Jimmy, our transmission shop, family business that I came up, down into grew up in, and like we never had a slow spell. The shops around us always had those little slow spells, and we're like, "Yeah, we don't." And that was a good feeling until it happened to us, too. So we're all vulnerable to it, and the knee-jerk reaction that I see is this. Craig O'Neill: People as eventually hit that slow spell. They check, see if other people are experiencing it, too. We comfort ourselves with the fact that others are doing it, defining it as a, a market-wide symptom of broader events that we have no control over. And so then we can just comfort ourselves with another idea. Craig O'Neill: It's like, "Ah, it'll come back around." And I heard this over, and over again from my family who is owner of the business, my, my dad and my grandpa, because that has been the experience. It always comes back around. Why would we ever be okay with the fact that a slow spell also technically always comes back around? Craig O'Neill: And if our knee-jerk reaction to those moments is then to go into a, a degree of marketing or a degree of follow-up or a mass blast text strategy, like I see a lot of people fall into is like, "Huh, the work needs to be drummed up. We'll turn to our CRM system. We'll construct the perfect message and send it out, and then people will make appointments and fill our bays." Craig O'Neill: Sound familiar? Jimmy Lea: Oh, it does. It does. And if we know those, those times are gonna come back around because it's cyclical, what are we doing? We... It- Yeah ... is preventable. What are we doing that we can prevent this from happening and being that cyclical item? Because- Craig O'Neill: This is, this goes straight into it, because what I see people doing with the knee-jerk response is they're actually crippling their ability to handle the cycles of this. Craig O'Neill: When you do a knee-jerk text blast response, what's the number one reaction that you get to it every single time? Opt-outs. They are the most common reaction to this, and that's what I... If you go on the socials and you look on comment threads of shop owners experiencing a slow spell, they're asking each other "What's the perfect message that you can type out that gets fewer opt-outs and more appointments?" Craig O'Neill: There isn't one. There is no perfect message that gets X number of people. The ratio will never be the same in two demographics with unique people being the customers or clients in every one of the unique repair facilities that we have. There is no perfect message. Jimmy Lea: No. They're not. They're looking for that silver bullet, Craig. Craig O'Neill: Yes. It's silver bullet is the right term for this, and I discussed this on my podcast in an early episode of the podcast Speak Up: Effective Communication on the Automotive Repair Podcast Network. It was episode 14. I said, "What your opt-outs are really telling you," and I think that what they are telling us is something we need to listen to. Craig O'Neill: So now on that, let's move into the attention span of the people in the world today versus the past. And Jimmy, I love to read. I love deep thoughts, and we're gonna get philosophical for a second. I know you don't mind. Love it. We love this. Yeah. Let's Jimmy Lea: go. Craig O'Neill: Signature classic, C.S. Lewis. One of my favorites, Screwtape Letters. Craig O'Neill: In the early chapters in that book it's describing... I won't go into the details of Screwtape Letters, but the way that you distract someone if you're trying to distract them from serious thoughts in C.S. Lewis' time period was, and I'll quote here from the book that- Got the guy to think he was hungry, and then I showed him a newsboy shouting, "The midday paper," and the number 73 bus going past, and before he reached the bottom of the steps, I had him into an unalterable conviction that whatever odd ideas might come into the man's head when he was shut up alone with his books, a healthy dose of real life, which he meant by the bus and the newsboy, was enough to show him that all that sort of thing just couldn't be true. Craig O'Neill: He knew he had a narrow escape, and then years later was fond of talking about it. I w- I'll skip ahead. But thanks to the process which we set at work in them centuries ago, they find it all but impossible to believe in the unfamiliar while the familiar is before their eyes. So this is hard to digest 'cause it's C.S. Craig O'Neill: Lewis. You... It's like a tough piece of wonderful, awesome, the best flavor steak in the world that you gotta chew on a whole lot of times before you can actually get to digesting it. But the point is, C.S. Lewis's era, the distraction was you wanted to get them into this stream of events and that's your business is to fix his attention on the stream. Craig O'Neill: Teach it to call it real life, and don't let him ask what it means by real. And that stream is exactly what people are having today. This is a word used by C.S. Lewis before streaming like we are on a webinar, streaming across the web even existed. What distracted a man? Just being on the street with a bus and a newsboy shouting. Craig O'Neill: That's yesterday. That's 1940s United Kingdom, actually, in C.S. Lewis' time. Let's fast-forward Johann Hari's book, Stolen Focus: Why You Can't Pay Attention and How to Think Deeply Again, absolutely nails the same point in the modern age and puts a name to it with this term called the f- this frenetic digital interruption, and he says, "Is pulling our attention away from our thoughts and suppressing your default mode network," cool term. Craig O'Neill: I think we're almost in this constant stimulus-driven, stimulus-bound environment, moving from one distraction to the next, and if you don't remove yourself from that, it will suppress whatever train of thought you had, right? And I think that frenetic digital distraction really i- it's just, we have to acknowledge this is the reality we're in today, and there's people that are struggling with notifications and attention, and bombarded with media messages. Craig O'Neill: Every news article you read has the pop-up ads. Are we in that same zone like C.S. Lewis, where a newsboy and the sign on a bus is the only thing that could distract our attention? No. We are under a constant 24/7 assault for our attention span today. That's where we're communicating from, and when your shop gets a little slow and you decide you're gonna have a knee-jerk reaction to the slowness, and you expect a message to land that leads to action with a population that's drowning in this reality, would it be any surprise that it only sees marginal results? Jimmy Lea: Is there any irony that it is called streaming? Is there any irony that it's called a reel? No. Craig O'Neill: Jimmy, it's like the oldest problems are always resurfaced again in our lifetimes today- Yep ... with different technology. Jimmy Lea: Oh, it's totally different. And now it's 17-second blurbs about it's a seven-second commercial, it's a 17-second commercial. Jimmy Lea: We're being bombarded with this instant stimuli to totally distract us from what is actually real- Yes ... and consequential, and you're being bombarded by things that are momentary blurbs of Jimmy Lea: Endorphins Craig O'Neill: Yeah. It, and it just- It's a Jimmy Lea: temporary- Craig O'Neill: You're competing with that- Yeah ... tendency too, to escape with these things. You're spot on. This, this topic is why I lead into these five barriers to that are causing us, like the things that we're misusing in our CRMs, right? Yeah. I consider them barriers or hurdles because we can get over them. Craig O'Neill: Yeah ... and we can decide to lever it right. And number one and we have a slide for this, so I put it up there. I know some people like to read and some people can listen. I wanted to put this quote on there because... And I'm gonna, fatal sin of speakers, I'm gonna read the quote. I know it's on the slide, but I know some of you can't see it, and I know some of you are only listening. Craig O'Neill: Yes. I can't read it. Oh, Jimmy, I'm sorry. It's too small. Too small? Oh, that's okay. That's why I'm here. Yeah. So- You can Jimmy Lea: read all of them. Read all of Craig O'Neill: them ... it's a big meaty slide. Problem number one though is we're not communicating to people on what matters to them. That's the problem. And to reference this point the, a great read, and please write this down, pick up this book, How to Win Friends and Influence People in the Digital Age. Craig O'Neill: Amen. If you're interested in this topic at all, read that book. It's from the Dale Carnegie and Associates. So updated for the digital age. There's so many profoundly good things in this, and this is a quote I pulled straight from the book, and I wanna make sure it gets its proper reference there. Craig O'Neill: But it says, "When it comes to mattering to others, you must discuss what matters to them. Assume all else will fall on deaf, or in this case, dull ears. This is an interesting principle to consider given the spirit in which the vast majority of people are communicating today. Most messages are primarily meant to educate others about our lives, our products, to reveal compelling portions of ourselves we think others would be attracted to. Craig O'Neill: While this appears to be an assertive strategy, it is actually a passive strategy in that it requires others to connect with us." "The trouble is that's marketing monologue, not relational dialogue. It's assumption, not assimilation. When assumption guides our efforts to befriend or influence others, the results end up on the wrong side of memorable." Craig O'Neill: Okay. End quote. That is that's another, like I'm giving you solid food to digest today. That's, that's- ... we don't have time to go this layer of depth in our presentation at Mars, so that's why I'm really happy to have this conversation today. It's a primer. If you walk in primed with some of these thoughts, you're gonna be able to get a lot more out of it. Craig O'Neill: But here's where I go with this. We are communicating from a position of our interests most of the time in the auto repair shop. When it slows down, we're interested in filling our bay. If we were really interested in having those customers come in, we would have done the harder work of relating and documenting and managing the data, all sorts of things differently to have a sustained conversation that they understood the value in, because we understand what's important to them. Craig O'Neill: And that's a whole different thing, and that's gonna come up again as we move into these, these other hurdles. But I think that's the thing, first and foremost, remember what messages right now are you pushing out there that are not memorable? I didn't give this in the slide, but I have an example recently, Jimmy very recently. Craig O'Neill: I turned 43 earlier in August, and I'm not on social media these days. The one thing that was fun is getting all those birthday harvests. You know how you get all the happy birthday thing. It's actually a lot of work. Yeah. Then you gotta go like everything and all that stuff too. But don't worry, I don't miss that entirely because I have been a patron in local businesses that have CRM systems in my neighborhood chiefly my Subaru dealership where we have a, a vehicle leased presently. Craig O'Neill: And I got three happy birthday emails from three separate people in that organization. Two of them were identical emails automatically constructed, and there was a neat little quote in the bottom of one of those emails. It actually said, "This email is automatically generated, and we do not monitor replies to it." Jimmy Lea: Oh my God. That's- Craig O'Neill: But it was a beautiful picture of balloons with the branding of that dealership on it. Oh, it was touching. It was such a great birthday blessing to receive that on Sunday afternoon. Jimmy Lea: Had it been from an actual person and not an automated system would've made it even better, but... Craig O'Neill: Sure. But does the birthday greeting from a business actually land on the memorable side of communication, or is it a cheap and simple automated gimmick to feign that you care with a direct interest that is more for the business's benefit rather than it is for my birthday, right? Craig O'Neill: Congratulations, you captured my birth date in a data field in a system that is automated to generate a joy, because I don't unsubscribe because I love these examples. It really was a gift for me that I get to use and communicate from. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. And that's good. That's good. Craig O'Neill: But no, this is a common thing, and we've we've seen this strategy. Craig O'Neill: You and I have been in the CRM space for a while, and you've seen that given as a best practice. We wanna capture the, birth date and month, not the year. Birth date and month. And then you can have these sort of birthday messages go out. All right, maybe you have that strategy applied in your shop. Craig O'Neill: Is that a wrongness? No. Maybe some people really appreciate it. I think a lot of people don't give it a second thought, and that's the majority. Jimmy Lea: They probably don't, but they also aren't sending it from an email that is not being monitored and not gonna reply. Craig O'Neill: Let's hope not. Yeah. ' Jimmy Lea: Cause if Jimmy's Super Shop were to send you a happy birthday message, it would purely be a happy birthday message. Jimmy Lea: There's no other ulterior motives whatsoever. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Jimmy- And you would reply and say, "Oh, thank you so much, Jimmy's Super Shop." We would reply again to say Craig O'Neill: I would hope so. Yeah. Now, my experience in birthdays are one thing, but all sorts of messages. I know when CRM automation occurs, and I'll touch on this at Mars a little bit further the team is not engaged in that part of the process, and it's difficult for them to engage in the inbound Present Jimmy Lea: conversation. Jimmy Lea: Yeah Craig O'Neill: Yep. There's a, a loss of continuity there. So I do feel a lot of times there's automated things going out from a shop, but there is actually no behavior that is being encouraged or directed or accountable any accountability layer for the team to be a participant in that. So it does play in that. Craig O'Neill: But this goes to number two which I think is at the root of the whole problem, and this is, again, another quote from the Dale Carnegie and Associates. First off, problem number two we're not cultivating a community, and this, this principle comes for me from my study in this book. And as I was reading that book, assessing how shops are leveraging CRMs, this stuck out. Craig O'Neill: And it says, and I quote, "Often forgotten is the long-term plan. Businesses call it a customer retention strategy, but it is best thought of as a lively, meaningful dialogue among a community of friends. If the foundation of all long-term success is the establishment of trust-based relationships, then the goal of all interactions should be to convey value as soon and as often as possible." Jimmy Lea: Not just birthdays. Craig O'Neill: Not just birthdays as a data field. What's meaningful for a client in a repair shop? What's meaningful to them in a repair shop? What is the purpose in our community, and how are you articulating the value of staying in touch so we can continue to express what this purpose is and how it benefits you? Craig O'Neill: And by the way, Mr. Client, it's very important, save this number in your phone so that you recognize that we're a contact 'cause you can reach out to us here, and we're gonna be here if you have any questions. And that's starting to get to the sense of community here. And Jimmy, this is getting more important. Craig O'Neill: In today's world, here's a tip for y'all right now. I want you to open up your phone, go to your text message app, look at the spam folder How many messages do you have in the spam folder of your messages app, whether you're using Android or Apple, does not matter. Automatically, messages are going straight to those folders with default settings from the phone's operating system and device. Craig O'Neill: There's a bunch in there, and a lot of it probably is spam, correct, Jimmy? Jimmy Lea: Oh, I'm pretty sure all of it's spam. Craig O'Neill: A lot of times it's very accurate in mine. I- I've only on occasion seen one or two messages in there. Here's how your shop is gonna land in the spam folder. If the client never accepts you as a contact and never engages in the dialogue with you in text. Jimmy Lea: Yep. Craig O'Neill: And so the manifestation of this, and I've started to see more of this recently, very recently, just this summer people sending a DVI link to their client, for example, but the client claims they never got it. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Craig O'Neill: But they do receive- Because it went to spam ... messages without the link went to the spam folder because sometimes those links are just being interpreted when it's not saved as a contact. Craig O'Neill: The solution is to get it saved as a contact. Interesting little issue, but that takes a little effort, doesn't it, to keep your client- Yeah ... to add you as a contact. There's some cool tools to do that, simple QR code scans, and lots of things we can do at the counter to help people through this problem. Craig O'Neill: But we need our advisors to express the importance of the communication and why they should want it before they'll ever accept it as a contact. Jimmy Lea: That's right. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. So interesting, right? So I think that cultivation of a community, that's the easy entry point. Help them understand the value of the communication that's coming and why we're going to be reaching you and make sure they actually do want it. Craig O'Neill: And that leads perfectly into hurdle number three. Hurdle number three is we are not gaining an opt-in for the purpose we seek. And Jimmy, you know this is true across the board generally for opt-ins and shop capturing, and we're gonna talk just a minute about this here as well. We'll do this after the next point. Craig O'Neill: The next point is a strong one on this. But you want the customer to want the message from you. Yeah. Does that happen automatically that they understand what you're going to be sending them and why you're going to be sending it? Jimmy Lea: Not unless you explain it. Craig O'Neill: Not unless you explain it. What's the value in it for them? Craig O'Neill: Why is there a benefit for them to be on a list in your shop for a certain type of message? I used an example earlier about text blast when it gets slow. And the mistake I see the most, Jimmy, is that shops literally have their all or repeat customer list, and they just hit this whole list with this message like, "Hey, we're slow. Craig O'Neill: Come in." Yeah. What if... just go with me here. Love it. What if you created a list that people could sign up and subscribe to in your shop? It's like, "Hey, if you wanna join our slow day list, there's a couple advantages of this. If you wanna just you have a few lingering maintenance items type of a thing, and we have openings we have a... Craig O'Neill: Maybe there's a promotion rate, or maybe it's just literally we can get you in and out because we know time is important, and we're not a discount culture anymore here, right? So maybe we express the speed of service. We know it's inconvenient to have the car down when it's quiet like this. We'll have loaners or rides available. Craig O'Neill: Whatever. There's benefits for you signing up on this list, so you can gain access to this thing that we're gonna do to make it better for you. Would you like to be on that list? We maybe send one or two of these out-" a quarter and perfect, right? And they sign up for that, so now you've got a warm lead list of people who are ready to fill your bays when they need filling. Craig O'Neill: How hard would it be to create that? Jimmy Lea: Oh, not very hard, and I wanna rename it already. I wanna call it the VIP available spots list. Perfect. Craig O'Neill: Yes. Yes. All sorts of things that you could do. Yeah, you could call it your membership list. Whatever. You go crazy. Have fun with it. Communicate the value of it. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. And you have some- My wife does this at art shows. She sells her art in these art shows, and she's found that even just the placement of the sign-up form matters. Like, when it's front and center, people who are waiting in line for the checkout now are able to sign into that book while they're waiting for their turn to check out with the art, and she gets way more signups for her email list. Craig O'Neill: Love it. It's perfect. Yeah, and similar practices are totally possible still today, but what do shops do? We automatically assume everyone wants to get any type of message we wanna have for any purpose, and we never clarify or distinguish any special type of thing, and thus they never get the opt-in. Craig O'Neill: And thus, what are your opt-outs telling you? Man, that's their first chance to talk to you about their preference for the type of communication you send. And you know what happens in an opt-out, Jimmy. You know as well as I do. That number's blacklisted at the carrier level. Jimmy Lea: Yep. Craig O'Neill: That's hard to undo. Now you gotta communicate to them about the value of reengaging in that by texting the word start to this number, and that's a harder thing for a busy service advisor or customer service rep to be able to engage in. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. No, it's true. It's true. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: We've gotta communicate with them on the level they want in the form that they want. And sometimes those opt-outs are them saying, "Look, I just don't want to communicate in this method." Craig O'Neill: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: But what do they prefer? Craig O'Neill: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Might Craig O'Neill: be. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: What's the conversation? Where have you built the relationship to continue that conversation on their preferred platform? Craig O'Neill: Yeah. Look, I cooked my cellphone a long time ago doing demos of AutoFlow at, with multiple instances. Now I get texts that I forget to clear out of their thing all the time. That texting's not the best way to get me during the day. I am, however, in my inbox. And I promise you, you have clients that's the same thing for them too. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. Or they don't even want... Now, go with me here. What if we had a list of people who prefer a phone call follow-up, Jimmy? Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. And there are. Craig O'Neill: Yes. Jimmy Lea: There's people that's what they would prefer. Craig O'Neill: Yes. 100% yes. And if you don't get the buy-in from that group, and you think everyone wants a phone call follow-up we already do this- You're wrong Craig O'Neill: at Chris' shop, Jimmy. Yeah. You wanna know in about 90 to 120 follow-up calls that we do in a week there we have a gal doing this for us, for Golden Rule Auto Care. Yeah. We get about 10 to 15% of those calls that go out end up with good connections. Like a good conversation. Jimmy Lea: Oh, they actually answer the phone and have a Craig O'Neill: conversation. Craig O'Neill: Actually answer the phone and have a conversation. Only 10 to 15% 10 to 15. Around 120 calls. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. I, Craig O'Neill: I- Not a huge number. Jimmy Lea: No, it's not. Because people are busy, and they don't wanna be interrupted. And those that want the conversations, they're the ones that answer the phone. And the other 80, 85%, 90% prefer a text message or an email or a Facebook message or purely nothing at all. Jimmy Lea: Thank you very much. Goodbye. Craig O'Neill: Let me ask you this, Jimmy. You got it, man. And when you get a phone call today from a number that's not a contact in your phone- ... do you answer it? Jimmy Lea: Voicemail. No. I- Craig O'Neill: Or screening? Yeah ... Jimmy Lea: I found the you push the two buttons on both sides, boop, right into voicemail. Done. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. I, I have, one of the call screener things on mine now. If it's not a contact, it hits that pretty much automatically. I don't answer my phone. I don't answer my phone. I then check to see the missed call, and if it is something important, I'll call it back. That's the world we're entering, and it's the same principle that we just discussed with that text message that i- if they darn a contact, same is true for the phone number that you're dialing from. Craig O'Neill: If that hasn't yet been saved as a contact, look, guys, your call isn't gonna be trusted yet. Area codes that are mine are the least trusted. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. Yes. But that's the world now, and we have to be able to recognize that and combat that. Yeah ... but that involves becoming that contact, agreeing to that type of conversation, and maybe making a note somewhere in your management or CRM system about those preferred lev- levels of contact. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. So- that's the hard work here, and I understand why shops that are low staff or only have one service advisor to five technicians, and he's also the CSR, and he handles payroll because he's also the owner, and yeah, it gets really tough really fast. And you have opportunity there when you're overwhelmed to hire someone else who can do these things, that's gonna add value to your business. Craig O'Neill: They'll be able to help cultivate these lists, which ke- it's more retention, guarantees you have the income and the cashflow to be able to support their livelihood, and everything gets better. But the starting point's really tough. Problem Jimmy Lea: Number four Craig O'Neill: Let's go. All right, this one's key. Mass blasts- Oh Craig O'Neill: without express written permission are against the law. True. And this is- True ... the really bonkers part of this is shops are loosely aware of this and yet they do it anyway. I forget what the fine is right now, and I'm not a lawyer. I'm not giving legal advice. Just disclaimer on that if you can put it in bold. Craig O'Neill: Yeah, no. But I think it's a $1,500 fine per offense, and if somebody knows that they did not expressly give you permission to text them very specifically- Jimmy Lea: Yep ... Craig O'Neill: text is what we're talking about here. Yep ... that's something they could sue you for and win every time. Notice a lot of the largest organizations out there with multiple locations do not engage in this method of follow-up Jimmy Lea: Because- They Craig O'Neill: know the targets Jimmy Lea: they've lost multiple court cases. Jiffy Lube is one that comes to mind. You can Google it. Court cases where Jiffy Lube had to pay out multimillion dollars because of their mass texting clients. A- and- and what's makes it worse is that they were mass texting clients who had opted out. Craig O'Neill: Oh. Oh, no. Craig O'Neill: So they had a blacklist failure- Yeah ... which is even another thing. So yeah, this is where, okay, you videcoders out there, I know you're out there, and I know you're even playing with APIs from groups like Twilio. And you might think "Cool, we can do texting real easy." Guess what? Start managing your blacklist because Twilio sometimes doesn't do it properly for you. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. And the carrier sometimes doesn't do it properly, and it is still you on the hook every time. And if you're giving your software platform to other people to use, your platform, unless it has clear terms and conditions, could also fall under some scrutiny. Oh, boy. It gets sticky. Investigate that. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. It does. It really is. So there's a difference between mass sending a marketing message versus pinpointing and being very specific. Craig O'Neill: Oh, I'm glad you bring this up, Jimmy. Yeah we have a slide on this. So CRM permissions are not actually the same across the board in multiple channels. So the- you probably use terms like transactional versus promotional, Jimmy, I'm sure. Craig O'Neill: But industry terms do vary from- from some- And our industry itself is not usually good at taking universal language- ... Craig O'Neill: And carrying it forward. But these three categories of- of text messages, I put this out. This is I don't have the source on here, but I pulled this source from online. Craig O'Neill: Conversational, informational, promotional. I wanna draw your attention to that blue arrow on the screen. It's kind of a bluish-green arrow, Jimmy. It's on that- Yep ... one, two, three, third row down, where it's talking about how that- that message is constructed. Messages promoting a brand, a product, or a service Or anything that prompts a consumer to buy something, go somewhere, or otherwise take an action. Craig O'Neill: That, if it's in that category, requires express written consent to be legal. Express written consent. Consumers may sign a form, check a box online, or otherwise provide consent to receive promotional text message in some fashion. That express written consent is the highest form of consent, and I haven't met an organization that's tracking it yet. Jimmy Lea: And through the TCPA- Yeah ... which is the act that governs over texting and how you can communicate, it used to be that you had to have a wet signature for that promotional message to go out, and you had to retain it for seven years even after you stopped your business. You still had to have it on file. Jimmy Lea: It's now changed. You can track it digitally. Yes. But you have to be able to provide the source, the date, the time, where it consent was given- Craig O'Neill: Yeah ... Jimmy Lea: for you to send promotional messages. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. Yeah ... Jimmy Lea: conversational, reminders, informational. Now and it's interesting you've got informational broke out here that you do need consent Craig O'Neill: Express consent, which is different than express written consent, and this was interesting to me when I started studying this too, and these things are pretty stable. Craig O'Neill: I don't see this element changing a lot. Yeah. But permission can happen over text on that, or on a form or a website, or verbally, and that's an interesting one. And that's just a message that contains information, just information. It's a status update, it's an appointment confirmation or a reminder. Craig O'Neill: Those types of things are information text, and that's handled- Yeah ... very differently than a promotional marketing text that's asking them to take an action. It tips towards promotional anytime you're asking them to click a link to schedule an appointment, for example, on your slow day blast type of scenario. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. That is a promotional text purely. Even if it's a deferred service reminder. Think about those deferred service drips that people have active in just about every CRM system in the world. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Craig O'Neill: That is asking the consumer to take an action, and this is exactly the type of thing I will be combating in, in, in our session at Mars 'cause we have a better way forward. Craig O'Neill: We can start talking a little bit about that here too. But those deferred work little drips are... Like, it's a strange thing to do. It's the thing your customer said no to during your visit that we're now assuming they want to receive an, a reminder about without any knowledge that this is coming, and certainly no express written consent. Craig O'Neill: And all of the burden is fully on them to take the action to make something happen about that still deferred work. Yeah. We aren't doing anything. We, in fact, automated the whole thing. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So what's- Craig O'Neill: It's a passive reminder, as we discussed earlier, right? Jimmy Lea: What's the better way? Are we gonna discuss that here, or are you waiting for Mars? Craig O'Neill: Oh, we can ta- we can talk on it here. So our better way is, it depends on our sense of purpose here, but I think let's go to barrier number five before we talk about that better way, 'cause I think this plays into the whole topic that we're discussing. And this is really the largest barrier, and it is the, the one that I think needs to be overcome before you fix any of the other ones. Craig O'Neill: We don't have our whole organization truly oriented towards retention as a goal What are we oriented towards then? Is the question I like to ask. And if you really stop and you really think about what your organization is structured to achieve, what is it? And it might be what you consider your most important metric might give you a clue. Craig O'Neill: I think it's an interesting question to ask, Jimmy. I do this a lot in different courses. I ask what's the most important metric for a service advisor or for a technician or for this or that?" I like to ask specifically for our front counter staff, whether it be a CSR, a reservationist, a service advisor, whoever we have working our front counter. Craig O'Neill: What is their most important metric? And you get all kinds of answers. You've probably heard every one of them, Jimmy. Closing rate. Those service advisors are like, "I sell 98.92% of all work I ever write up." Terrible stat, by the way, 'cause that's the work you write up. You can artificially inflate your closing rate on sales by writing up what you know will sell. Jimmy Lea: Yep. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. But I th- I'm gonna give you my answer. Jimmy Lea: Okay. Craig O'Neill: Your ratio of returning customers Jimmy Lea: Agreed Craig O'Neill: It's your most important statistic Jimmy Lea: If they're not coming back, you're doing something wrong Craig O'Neill: Correct. Yeah, I don't care what your ARO is really. It's an interesting stat to know. You'll establish baselines for all sorts of KPIs. Craig O'Neill: They tell you useful information. But is our goal to sell all of the stuff we find on every visit? And is our team like, "Is that's what's gonna impress the boss? That's what's gonna make him very happy"? Jimmy Lea: No, returning customers. Totally agree. Craig O'Neill: Yeah, because what's the value of one good visit, right? Yeah. Craig O'Neill: What's the value of one visit versus the lifetime value of a client? Jimmy Lea: Yes. The lifetime value has so much more weight to it. Neck and neck. Tens of thousands of dollars versus- Craig O'Neill: Hundreds. Yeah ... Jimmy Lea: hundreds that, for that one visit. Craig O'Neill: Some, yeah. Yeah. And o- I had family accounts, family accounts- Yeah ... literally in the hundreds of thousands with, For Jimmy Lea: the lifetime value? Craig O'Neill: Lifetime value of that particular individual. He had a lot of vehicles in the family. Jimmy Lea: And, What's the family fleet? Craig O'Neill: It's the family fleet ... it's a family fleet. It's Jimmy Lea: a Craig O'Neill: fleet Jimmy Lea: account. Craig O'Neill: Yep. Yep, but even when the kids grew up, they were still coming in as well, too, and that, the lifetime value of the relationships that turn into more things, like, man, if that's true, though, and we do this. Craig O'Neill: Jimmy, we pay lip service to this all the time in our industry. It's a relationship-based business. It is. And then we go and we emphasize we gotta sell this much, and this is our target for sales, and all this other thing, and it's and how much time really are we putting our human attention on our team's human attention in this frenetic age on retention strategy? Craig O'Neill: Yeah. How involved are they in your team right now towards the goal of getting people back in the door from the beginning of that visit to the end of that visit, and what happens in between, the humans involved? And Jimmy, you've been in this industry. It... Most shops, I hear they say, "Hey, my guys aren't gonna use this. Craig O'Neill: I just need this to be automated." Jimmy Lea: Yeah. We'll try and make it sound as personal as possible in that automation, but Craig O'Neill: Yeah, we use those cool little variables. Your service advisor gets filled in with the service advisor's name, all the automated message, and automation has merit. It does. We create, through automation, consistent repeatability of things that we want to have occur That's good, right? Craig O'Neill: It is. Jimmy Lea: Make it personable, and make sure you're responding. Craig O'Neill: And make sure you had a hand in that, and make sure you are responding. Correct. The service advisors know these are going out, they know when it's going out, and they're maybe involved in scanning to see who replied and who didn't, or maybe that's somebody's job in the shop. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. And we'll talk about this at Mars a little further. I believe it is somebody's job in the shop. We call... I call it the reservationist. A lot of people have a CSR. Yes ... it's a fun topic because... And it goes deep, and we have podcasts on that too. But dude, it's an orientation thing. It's if it's important to you, you're gonna do something about it. Craig O'Neill: If it's not important to you, you won't do anything about it, and that's the measure that, yeah, like, all right. So I just kinda threw a C.S. Lewis mindset at you. There's like this is one of the things I love about reading some of these, these thinkers, right? It's and of course, he's Christian apologetics and that sort of thing, but he said... Craig O'Neill: i'm breaking it down to just a simple point, like something is important or it's not important at all. Craig O'Neill: That middle ground in this topic, I think this is true, that middle ground's not given to us, which forces us to either have to decide, "Eh, it's really not important and we can continue as we are because we're okay with the results," or, "No, this is a really important topic. Craig O'Neill: Our strategy for getting clients into the shop is of actually critical importance to the ultimate success of our business, and is the most important thing that we should be focusing on to guarantee our success. So we're gonna really put in all of our effort towards this goal instead of just reacting to the chaos, reacting to the things that made it in today." Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Craig O'Neill: Wow. What would happen to your business with that focus? Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. Yeah. Man. We wanna exponentially increase it. We wanna rocket fuel this. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: And I wonder what the statistics are. There, there was a, a, a read a while ago that talked about restaurant industry was tracking this. How can they get a client to come back for the second dining experience- Yeah Jimmy Lea: and the third dining experience, and the fourth dining experience? And once they get 'em in for that fourth dining experience, they've got a client for life. Craig O'Neill: True. Yeah. I actually just had a interesting restaurant follow-up. I'm on the email list for one of the sushi joints here in Grand Rapids. I love sushi. Craig O'Neill: Love this place. We go Maru Sushi on Cherry Street. Fantastic. Next time you're in Grand Rapids, wonderful. Love going there with my wife. It's our go-to spot. We had a couple months of a dry spell there where we didn't make it in, and we were busy with art shows and all sorts of stuff. Sure. And I got an email that must have been triggered. Craig O'Neill: It's like their little lost customer reminder. It's like- Jimmy Lea: Yeah ... " Craig O'Neill: It's been a while. Here's a free app- appetizer" Okay ... for next, on, on your next visit." It was an interesting follow-up. I thought it was really good. Oh yeah, it has been a while. Man, I want sushi right now, is what I experienced with that. Craig O'Neill: And then, and there's a benefit for me right there in it, and I already wanna go there anyways. It's just been a while. Jimmy Lea: Yes. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: It's a great way of getting you back in. I, there, there was the example That the manager would go around and say, "Oh, is this your first time?" They had different colored napkins, so he knew- The servers ask us, they're the new ones that don't recognize us. Jimmy Lea: They ask, "Have you guys been in before?" It's like, "Oh, yeah." Yeah. All right. "You can hold on to the menu. N- unless you need it to show us that you haven't taken the order yet," right? Yeah. Yeah. The the managers are going around and they're giving away, "Hey, on your second visit, make sure you try the cheesecake, and here's a coupon for a free cheesecake." Jimmy Lea: You get me back for a $100 meal for a free cheesecake, is it worth it? Craig O'Neill: Totally. Jimmy Lea: What's that cheesecake cost you? Craig O'Neill: Cheapest marketing. All right. So look- Cheesecake more cost ... how much Jimmy Lea: money Craig O'Neill: do you spend on other marketing efforts for what kind of results? Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And we've got to do the optimizing everywhere. Jimmy Lea: We've got to optimize ourself in all the locations. There's, which is true. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: But also how effective, and it's extremely, ex- extremely effective when they're there at your shop enjoying the experience, you give them a reason to come back. Craig O'Neill: Yes. And I like what you said there, Jimmy, and I think that's worth drawing some out a little further. Craig O'Neill: What you described is what I we have an improv club in our Toastmasters club, so the we play a lot of improv games, and we've been taught the yes and- Yes and ... approach. Yes and. Yes and. It is, it's, so it's a rule in improv where one of the people in your troupe are make something, that's truth now. Craig O'Neill: You react with that. It's not, you can't go combat this thing. It's not this or this. It's these things now have to be recognized as, as connected. The reality of Jimmy Lea: what you create. Combining forces for something good. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. So you said- Using that idea ... all networks, all channels, and this is exactly it. Craig O'Neill: This conversation that we're having doesn't say "Oh, yeah, we just master this and we won't need to spend as much money in this other area." That's not necessarily the case. Now, although maybe you have have some restructuring of that, it's you do refine your strategy on how your team is engaging retention, and you continue your outreach efforts, and maybe restructure how your phone call skills and other things go into all the m- effort you did take towards generating leads actually gets converted into real clients that come back again. Jimmy Lea: Oh, yeah. W- I was talking to a shop the other day, "My marketing's not working. My marketing's not working. I need to redo all my marketing." Got digging into his phone call log, discovered 43% of phone calls were- Ooh ... not being answered. No. 43%. Craig O'Neill: This is the world th- that AI assistants are entering. Craig O'Neill: And Jimmy- Yes ... this is this is the deepest, saddest thing in the world for me. AI assistants are one, a thing that is i- in demand and two, that it's sometimes better than the Jimmy Lea: people. If you're not able to answer the phone, you need to figure out either you need a human that's there answering the phone, or you implement this AI answering system- Oh, man Jimmy Lea: that's tied to your point of sale that sees your schedule, that can schedule- Better Craig O'Neill: at containing the context and keeping the notes and everything else ... four different... Jimmy Lea: Absolutely. Craig O'Neill: Yeah, I know. Jimmy Lea: And it's true. If- I do not support the idea that the AI answering your system is going to replace your advisor. Jimmy Lea: Absolutely not. Yeah. Craig O'Neill: No. Jimmy Lea: You do need to answer the phone as quickly as you humanly possibly can, but if you're not able to, that's where you've got this backup that can take care of business. And it's an interesting thing. Craig O'Neill: And this backup Jimmy Lea: is just that. Yeah. It needs to be backup, not plan A. Craig O'Neill: Oh, not plan A. Craig O'Neill: And in fact, you need to be aware And we were having this conversation in our team, too 'cause our sales guys, when they're calling shops, they're hitting AI- Jimmy Lea: Yes ... Craig O'Neill: systems far more frequently than they ever used to, and it's interesting to see that volume go. But simultaneously, we understand, like, how do you feel personally when you call a business and the first thing you get is an AI? Craig O'Neill: Are you happy or a little sad about that? And in an election year right now, it has turned divisive. And we did tailor- trace this back to this really started about two weeks ago. Even in demos where we're talking about AI features- ... the data center issue is coming up. And, like, all these things are, like, top of mind, front and center. Craig O'Neill: "Oh, I can't believe you guys are engaging with AI stuff in this world right now." And it's oh, wow, hot button issue. You have an AI assistant, you probably are gonna have a 50/50 split. I'm y- I'm talking 50/50. Some people will love it and think it's fine or just tolerate it. The other 50% are going to hate it, hate you, and may never call you again. Craig O'Neill: And congratulations, now we're in 2026. Yep. Jimmy Lea: And I, I think the 50/50 might be a little, Craig O'Neill: I'm just thinking about how the elections play out- Jimmy Lea: Yeah ... for two different parties. I propose there's probably a 30%, maybe a 33% that loves it, 33%- Fair ... that hates it, and 33% that's in that middle that says, "Ah." Craig O'Neill: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: I Craig O'Neill: would love to see a strong third party too, Jimmy, but that's neither here nor there. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. So look at this though. We talked orientation. We don't have a whole organization structured towards retention. Now I had a great coach. Bob Greenwood was my coach. He passed away 2021. And I talk about this frequently. I echo what he taught me a long time ago, and he described our professional responsibility. Craig O'Neill: He asked the question, "What's our job? What's our job? What is your job?" I remember being the technician in the room that raised my hand, and I told him what he was expecting someone in the room to raise their hand and say. Jimmy Lea: Fix cars. " Craig O'Neill: I fix cars." Yep. He pounced. He was ready. This is what he did. I've seen him do it multiple conversations after that. Craig O'Neill: He said, "No. Your job, your professional responsibility, is to make sure the vehicle's safe, reliable, and efficient. That's the job. And that, Mr. Client, is why we do a multi-point inspection on every vehicle that we do, and we will send this digitally to you, and we won't let you down." And there's lots more that goes into that, but there's a whole underlaying sense of purpose about the service that we provided. Craig O'Neill: And if that is our job, to make sure the vehicle's safe, reliable, and efficient, we owe it to our customers to be participants in that- Yeah ... as a member of the community of which they are also driving in. It has direct benefits to us and the other people we love on the streets. But that's an orientation, right? Craig O'Neill: And if that is what you believe about your purpose in this industry- Amen ... yeah, we're gonna start following up with the strong ability to communicate that sense of purpose, and people will hear the conviction in there and that commitment that you made to not letting them down. And that is not going to be heard in your competitors. Craig O'Neill: If you master this, and you don't, you will stand out, I promise you. Jimmy Lea: It's true. It's true. Yeah. Craig, this is a, a phenomenal conversation that we're having, talking about all things marketing, customers, customer relationships. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Managing those relationships, communicating in their preferred method, form, and fashion. Jimmy Lea: This is gonna continue in our Mars Conference. I can't wait. Let's throw up that QR code again. If you are able to attend, and you are listening to this, today is... What day is today? Craig O'Neill: Today is the 9th. Jimmy Lea: September 9th It's called Wednesday. September 9th, intensive giveaway winners. Oh, don't forget the giveaway winners here, Craig. Jimmy Lea: We've- Oh ... le- but- Great Do you wanna announce the winners first, or do you wanna announce the the special giveaway for everybody listening? Craig O'Neill: Let's do the winners first, Jimmy. I'm excited. So we had a drawing as we had two tickets to give away to Mars, and we have two winners, and we'll be sending emails to these winners as well. Craig O'Neill: Winner number one, Preston Callahan. Winner number two, Jordan Jawarenko. And we will get those emails out to you and hope to see you in Utah. And yeah bring your hiking shoes if you wanna go up in the hills with me. I definitely encourage getting up in the hills. So- Jimmy Lea: Are you gonna be rucking? Craig O'Neill: Oh, see, when I'm in the hills I don't just bring useless weight, I bring actual hiking gear, so I just call it hiking when I'm actually in a mountain. Jimmy Lea: When you're in Utah, you go hiking. Yeah. Everywhere else it's Craig O'Neill: rucking. Yeah. Rucking is what I would call urban hiking. Jimmy Lea: It's for you flatlanders. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. Yeah. So no, I will definitely be ha- I have a pack, I have I put water in there for weight and snacks that I can eat, and the, the idea is you get it lighter as you go with that sort of stuff, but- Oh ... it's absolutely beautiful. So these- Yeah ... are the winners from the Autoflow drawing that we'd had. Craig O'Neill: Those of you who did not win on that drawing, we'll still email you and hope to see you in Utah. Take advantage of this promotion. I think it's gonna be a great conversation. I've done this intensive multiple times. Jimmy, I gotta give you guys some props on this because this is my favorite format literally in all events that I go to. Craig O'Neill: You're in one room together at your headquarters in Ogden, Utah- Yeah ... which is a cool town. Everyone hears the same presenter. We get everyone here asking those same questions, and then- Yep ... the next presenter's gonna be up, and then we do that. We have great food in between, and then there's breakout sessions afterward where we get to go and break out into groups and discuss everything that's done. Craig O'Neill: No one's missing any of the context from any of the presentations. It's not like you're in one session and then another session is going on and "Man, that would've been a cool talk too, but this is really good." You don't have any fear of missing out on anything that's happening. Everybody's a participant the whole way. Craig O'Neill: It's awesome. Jimmy Lea: Oh, and I love the, the vendors are included. Everyone is in the same- Yeah ... room, and we're having these conversations together. It's not just shop owner to shop owner point of view. We get everybody's point of view in on these conversations- Yeah ... which is super awesome. All right. So if you scan this QR code, grab out your smartphone, scan this QR code, this is a coupon. Jimmy Lea: It is on- coupon, oh, I hate calling it that. Yeah. This is a special member VIP. Because you are watching this webinar, this is a cu- the, this code is good until 12:00 AM tomorrow morning, Pacific Daylight Time The code is, and I have to switch over to my other computer, the code is Mars300. This is $300 off of the general admission pricing. Jimmy Lea: So you and a- anybody of the public that is out there, you will get the webinar, the the whole entire intensive, Mars Intensive at the institute member pricing. So use the code Mars, M-A-R-S 300, and that is good until, for in the next, what? 12 hours? Craig O'Neill: Yeah. Where are we? 10, 12- And after Jimmy Lea: you fill that out- Oh, 13 hours. Jimmy Lea: You got 13 hours. Ready, set, go. Go ahead ... after Craig O'Neill: you fill that out, email us and I will tell you my favorite two sushi joints in Ogden, Utah, and maybe we can even grab a bite there. Jimmy Lea: Ooh, that's great. And you know what? We do have a couple of more tickets available. There's not a lot, but there are a few more tickets available for that exclusive dinner with Cecil Bullard. Craig O'Neill: Nice. Jimmy Lea: We're gonna have some great conversations. Those that are speakers are invited to be able to be part of this conversation and it's an exclusive dinner with Cecil, so you're gonna have some really good, intense, great conversations with the speakers of the event, with Cecil being there. These are gonna be some really good focused conversations. Jimmy Lea: Those Craig O'Neill: are my favorite moments, Jimmy. Yeah, the event is one thing, but the conversations that happen throughout and at dinners these... If you're not frequently going to industry events like this is... You owe it to yourself to do this. The ideas that you get to go back with are phenomenal, and the connections that you make and the sense of community that you feel that, that's permanent Jimmy Lea: Agreed. Jimmy Lea: Agreed. Couldn't have said it better. Thank you, Craig. Oh, yeah. Congratulations to Preston. Congratulations to Jordan. Look forward to seeing you in Ogden, Utah, October 26th, 27th and 28th, right before SEMA Apex. And for those who are the adventurous types rent a car. Let's go drive down through Zion and Bryce Canyon and- Yes Jimmy Lea: I'm sure Craig Craig O'Neill: and- Zion. If you haven't been to Zion National Park, what is that place? It is beautiful. It is. Southern Utah, phenomenal, dude. I could go... We have another hour here, so we can just talk about Southern Utah. Man, dude- ... you guys have got the pocket of beauty in this world. It is phenomenal. Craig O'Neill: Like- Jimmy Lea: It's gorgeous. Yeah. It is gorgeous. Craig O'Neill: Absolutely. You will... And Salt Lake City's no joke either. You fly in there, you're gonna think, "This is amazing," and it is. And then you go to Southern Utah and you think "What is... It gets better?" Jimmy Lea: Yep. Yep. Glad you had a great experience with your family down there in Southern Utah. Craig O'Neill: Dude, my wife and I are flying out a little early. We're staying through the weekend before the Mars Intensive we're gonna be hiking some hills then too. It's hard to get the bigger hikes in between the event stuff. Jimmy Lea: Yes. Craig O'Neill: It gets dark- Yes, it is ... it gets hard on the mountain. Jimmy Lea: It does. It does. Jimmy Lea: Even with that, it's not quite enough. I got you. With that, thank you, Craig. I appreciate you being here, brother. Oh, thanks. Thank you so much. Look forward to Mars- Can't wait ... the Mars Intensive. Let's continue this conversation. Let's get in deeper with these conversations and have a great time. I will see you there. Jimmy Lea: Thank you, everybody. See Craig O'Neill: you soon.
From Garage Beginnings to Master Tech: Ly Khoa’s Hustle and Humility
Glenn Piccolo interviews Ly Khoa (Master Lee), a top-performing technician, about his journey from lowering Hondas in high school to trade school, corporate shops, running his own business, and returning to tech work. They discuss efficiency, organization, parts management, shop culture, benefits of 7-day operations, and the realities of owning a shop versus being a master technician. Ly shares practical advice for technicians who want to increase hours and earnings—focus on skill mastery, maintain a great attitude, stay organized, seek out work proactively, and understand when entrepreneurship is (or isn’t) the right path. AutoShopAnswers.com Auto-Shop-Media.com