Ep 100 - Andrew Fischer | Why Most Technicians Shouldn't Own a Shop

0:00We're technicians and we think back of the house is the hardest thing. I'm sorry, man. I still think being a service consultant, service advisor, service writer, whatever you want to call them, that is still hands down the hardest job in the shop. I don't want the job. We can fix cars. When that customer comes in our shop and I'm in the office and they're like, they're starting to say the stupid things.

0:19I can't do it. I've learned I turn around and walk out. I do the same thing. Because I'll be like, I can't do their job. The following is a special edition of the show. Don't worry, today's episode still features doofuses talking about the aftermarket. This one just doesn't include my dad, so it's probably better than normal. The stuff said on this show does not necessarily represent the views or opinions of our peers, our sponsors, or any other associations we may have.

0:45Chances are there may be some spicy language in this show, so if you're sensitive to that, you should probably move along. Without further ado, here's your special host, Brian Pollock, with Confessions of a Shopper. Presented by Techmetric, the best thing to happen to the world of personal transportation since the advent of internal combustion engines. We're recording now. Like, we're just— we're ready to go.

1:13Braxton will probably literally put this in there. I've seen him in action. So now we gotta behave. Okay, so now we gotta behave. So how things been going for you? I'm here, dude. You're here. I'm here, man. You're filling in. You're filling in this afternoon. Filling in. We had an instructor not show up, so gonna Was only supposed to instruct tomorrow and Saturday, and now we're doing an evening session today.

1:38So pulling it off last second, try to kind of, uh, off the top of my head is not one of the ones I've had to do yet. That's a little tricky. It's, it's, you know, the good part is you gotta, we got a catalog, you know. It's only, the only thing I got going for me is I got a catalog and I could pull something, you know.

1:53I should probably introduce you, Andrew Fisher. Thank you. Fax, Fax, Tech Fix, Tech Fix, World Pack, World Pack, Car Quest, Car Quest. Uh, I think that's it. Is there anybody you don't work for? Obviously I'll be, I'll behave, I'll behave. But yeah, I mean, you know, whatever it takes to get as much as we can out there. So, you know, it's, uh, maybe oversaturation to an extent, but you know, it's, uh, what I do for Tech Fix, I don't do the same for World Pack.

2:23What we do for World Pack, I don't do the same for Car Quest. You know, you try to, you hit different tech technician levels through the different companies. So I'm just really blessed, man. I, I can't say it any better. And you're kind of running a shop too, leadership, major leadership position, like, yeah, I do in there at the shop, day-to-day operations, still in the shop, still in the front of the house.

2:44Um, you know, I do a lot of leadership coaching with, with Tech Fix and Shop Fix. So, you know, I feel like a fraud most days because, as you know, we never have it together. So, you know, you're riding highs and you're riding deep, deep So, you know, it's, uh, it's, it's humbling. Humbling, that's probably the best word for it, right? You know, um, the wide range of training that you're doing now, you know, one of the major complaints we hear from shop owners— actually, we were just having a conversation in here when you came in, and right before you came in, um, there's somebody talking about how it's, it's very difficult The training end

3:26of this industry is very difficult right now. It's difficult on the trainers. You, like me, are away from our families. Yep. Doing this thing. You way more than me. I'm, I'm just, you know, I'm just, I'm just having a good time. You're like in it. How many, how many weeks a year are you traveling? I— all of them. It seems that way.

3:45So last year I was away from the shop a total of, I think it was 65, 67 days. Oh my God. That doesn't count weekends because most of these fall on the weekends. So I mean, it was, it was a lot of time away. That's tough. And then one of the other things that we talked about is specifically the evening type training.

4:04Correct. That's out there is like, it's fricking tough. I mean, I just had a conversation. We just brought, and I won't name names, we just brought guys to an AC class. And whenever I can, I try to go in with them. I want to see what's being taught. And the name of the class was Modern Climate Control Systems, I think. Okay., and, um, it wasn't anybody you're associated with.

4:27Um, and we sat in there, and I'll tell you what, man, it's tricky. Our shop, our shop is hourly, and we, we pay our guys to go to training. So you're at a point where these guys are— these are, these are essentially overtime hours. These are time and a half pay hours because we're in New York State, and that's— it's not an option to pay them straight time.

4:46You know, I think different states maybe have different rules where you could pay guys training hours straight time or whatever. Yeah., but we don't have the option. So we're paying time and a half. And we went in there and this guy spends, I timed it on my watch 'cause I was on a mission. I wasn't there to learn about modern AC systems.

5:04I was there to see what am I paying for? You gotta vet it. 28 minutes on R12. When was the last time you seen R12 in your shop? Every car that has R12 in it, has been rotted up to the door handles and in the junkyard since 2010. Yeah, same. I mean, we're in a very similar situation, very similar climate, very similar salt situation with you and I.

5:26Is probably maybe a little bit more by me because— yeah, but anyways, very similar, right? They've been gone 28 minutes on that. And I'm not gonna get super technical because this is the Confessions of the Shop Owner and not super technical podcast, but as you know, newer AC systems, heat pumps, solenoid valves, blah blah blah, made more changes in the last 8 years than they did in the previous 50s, right?

5:47In the previous 50 years. More has changed in the last 8, in my opinion. The stuff that I was interested in, the teaching of the heat pumps and the solenoid valves and all this stuff— the class ends at 9:30, starts teaching on it at 9:27. Well, they probably didn't know it either. That's, you know, and I'm not bashing, but you, you know, we see it.

6:10And that's— I love it when people say things that are correct even if it's not Well, it's the reality, right? And we, we have to be real. Like, as a technical trainer, again, I know this is shop owners and management, but as a technical trainer, we have to, we have to be real with ourselves too, right? Like, they're— I'm not going to go in and teach an alignment angles class, right?

6:32No, that's not my specialty area. Absolutely. And I would— it would be a fallacy and it would be a fraud for me to do so. Could, could I do it? Hey guys, Carrie Lynn with Turnkey Marketing. If you are looking to increase cars and you're looking for the right demographic to go after, you wanna get the right people who need auto repair right now, then give us a call.

6:54We have a service called Direct Track and it utilizes AI to find people in your area who are the great demographic that you wanna go after, have raised their hand and opted in saying, I need auto repair help right now. We send them an email as soon as they open the email. We then get their physical address, follow it up with commercial ads on all their streaming services like Hulu and YouTube and ESPN, Fox News, all those different things.

7:20And then we also get their physical address and we start sending banner ads and display ads to every single device in that house. It has been incredibly effective. It has made shops seem like they're everywhere to those people who need repairs right then. And I mean, I'm telling you guys, the return on investment has been huge. So if you want to increase car count, you want to get great people in the door, give us a call or reach out to us and ask us about DirectTrack marketing.

7:49Running a shop for 20 years teaches you a lot, like how outdated systems can make your job a lot harder than it needs to be. I used to deal with slow check-ins, clunky estimates, wasted time chasing down updates. Then I switched to TechMetric. It's an all-in-one cloud-based SMS that lets me run my shop from anywhere. Streamlines my estimating process, keeps customers in a loop with real-time updates.

8:12I'm not telling you that it was all Tekmetric, but I'm telling you that Tekmetric was a big part of it. Since I switched to Tekmetric, my average repair order 4 years ago was $293, and right now it's $916. That's not luck. It's better processes, faster workflow, speed of service that's facilitated by this technology helps me get higher and better authorizations from my customers.

8:36If you're ready for a shop management system that actually works for you, tap the link in the show notes and check out Tekmetric. You're going to like what you see. Yes. Would it be what the attendees wanted? Absolutely not. No. And that's part of the problem. I think it's a big part of the problem. It's a huge— and I understand because the other thing that ties into this is maybe in this class that I had the guys at, you know, maybe this isn't a good example, but you go to a lot of classes And they spend a lot of time on fundamentals and everybody's always like, oh, they just, you know, I'm not taking a

9:11fundamental class, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then it's like, you start working with these guys, you have them in your shop and you're seeing comebacks, you're seeing this, you're seeing that. And you're like, this is the same guy that doesn't think he needs to take the fundamental class. And here we are, you're coming to me, we've got this problem on this vehicle.

9:31You've not checked the oil for, you know, for VVT Pro. You've not checked the oil. You've not checked the battery. Like, like, dude, like there's a lot of mystery problems and actual problems that are oil level and condition. Absolutely. And battery condition. But that falls on us as management and owners. Cause here's where the problem comes in, right? We let them select the classes they want to go to.

9:54Yes. And the reality is, in my opinion, you know, the average technician, the first, we're going to call it 10 years, okay, probably shouldn't have that ability. I think the average technician, the management knows— management, ownership, shop foreman, however your shop's structured— they know where that technician is struggling, and that's where they need to be. The biggest issue is they need to decide.

10:20Absolutely. The, the other issue you run into is we're— we— I'm, I'm going to coin Matt Fonzlow here— we over-romanticize the diagnostic side so much And let's be real, man, that's the problem, right? That is the problem because not everybody is built to be diagnostic technicians. 100% agree. And until we realize that, and does that mean that the suspension guy is less more than the diagnostician?

10:47I don't think so. I think you make a good point. I think we see it all the time. We really do. We see If you go to the average shop out there and you watch guys put wheels on cars, how many shops do you think when you go to them, do you think the guys are cleaning the wheel hubs and torquing the wheels?

11:08I mean, I've— outside of ours, I have never seen that happen in a shop outside of ours. Now again, I don't get into a lot. We're really focused on EVAP diagnostics, oscilloscopes, this, that, and the other thing., and we'll have, uh, Timmy the technician will put, uh, brakes and rotors on the front and rear of a vehicle, and it'll come back Paul Satan, and we'll call the parts store up and be like, hey, these freaking Wardinskis you sold me are hot garbage, this thing's freaking shaking.

11:34Timmy— and then I get a hold of the vehicle, right? And we don't have— we're, we're big time on cleaning wheels. These are problems we've had in the past, which is why we're like what we are now. Same exact same thing. I'll pull the wheels off and the freaking hub was so dirty when he railed this thing on there with impact gun, I have to take a hammer to get the wheel off a car.

11:52We just put the wheel on, which people in the South— people in the South, you're not gonna understand this part. They are spoiled. Okay, but here we are, we're lacking fundamentals, but Timmy the technician is going to go to the scope class and he's going to go figure out how to find the moon phase with a lab scope that applies to 0.2% of the cars that ever come through the door anyways.

12:14But Timmy can't get his brake jobs done to come back not squeaking. Yeah, I mean, it's a huge ego issue. It— ego and ignorance is the, the biggest issue in my personal opinion. You know, I think the, the other issue you run into, and this, this is going to upset people, the alphabet soup BS that we throw around from the technical— I mean, we were just talking about that just before we went on live here, you know, but the, the alphabet soup that— I'm sorry, their, their ABC level is so broken in the There's no standardization.

12:46And the idea that we keep throwing this around, I mean, I, I say this in classes all the time. I am a C, maybe even a D-level tire technician. I'm going to break some stuff, dude. Like, I'm just going to be honest with you. I might be an upper-level C, low-level B diagnostic tech. So where does that make me, a C-level tech?

13:04I just, I don't believe in it. I can't subscribe to it. Not in today's world. The days of bumper-to-bumper that every technician can get through everything is done. And how many times, how many times in these groups have I responded to people, what do you mean by a tech? And they're like, a guy that I can give everything. And I go, here's the deal, I don't know everything.

13:24I know a lot of really smart people. I haven't met a guy you can give everything. No, I, I haven't met a guy that is going to— except for Scott Manna, um, I haven't met a guy that was for— that was for Fonzel. I haven't met a guy that you're going to give a European immobilizer problem to and then he's going to rebuild a GM 10-speed, and then he's going to put injectors in, and whatever, he's going to correctly diagnose some diesel injectors, not just sling them in there, right?

13:52And then do whatever else. Like, like, it's, it's not gonna happen. It's not a person, guys. The person doesn't exist anymore, and it hasn't in a long time. Now, some of us— I mean, I'm gonna be straight up with you, dude. My ego for the first 15 years of my career, you thought you were the shit. I thought I was. You were fixing some stuff, but I was getting real lucky.

14:11I got real lucky. I was a dealer guy. I was rebuilding transmissions, doing drivability, but I see pattern failures, right? Don't get me wrong, I had some— quite a bit of independent experience too, but I got, I got cocky. Yeah. And then reality hit, you know, reality hit really bad, really fast. And that's when I realized, like, I got to figure out a lane to stay in.

14:32And what am I the best at? I'm not a high-producing guy. I've just never been a high-production technician. I could probably do 85 to 100% I'm sure most weeks, sure. But that's not, you know, we preach it or we hear it preached across the board, you know, your tech should be 120% effective, blah, blah, blah, blah, BS. It's tough to hit. And the guys that tell you this, I see this all the time in certain groups, oh, I've got a technician, it's 180% effective, blah, blah, blah.

15:01That's BS because I'll tell you what, you and I take those phone calls from those guys. So, you know, we got to stop lying to ourselves. And then the other, the other side of it is, is, you know, Does, you know, does their— do they— did they decide to run a labor multiplier, right? There's a lot of shops. Yeah, we did. Sure.

15:19Yeah, yeah, right. If you run a 1.5 labor multiplier, yeah, sure, the guy maybe turn 80 hours a week, I guess. I don't know. But straight book time and everything done right, and then like, like, I'd really like to see— I'd like to see the numbers, and then I'd like to see all the comebacks and how that affects the supposed efficiency. Because I've— we've dealt with this at the shop.

15:37All the time. I mean, guys that are super fast, but man, they get that car in and they get it out and it's like a boomerang. That's like, back in the bay, you know. You know, luckily for us, we have pretty robust QC process. It doesn't— same, I was just gonna add that. And, you know, and like, for— we run a 30— you can tell, you're like, oh, instantly.

15:55And, you know, we run a 30% labor bump in our shop. Um, but QC— and honestly, yes, we are a flat rate shop, but sure, I expect my guys— take the, take the labor bump out of the equation— I do ask them to be about 80% efficient. Sure. But I specialize them. Yeah. So I've got a Euro guy. We kind of do that too.

16:18Like I got a guy that does heavy line repair pretty well. I'm typically going to give him the heavy line repair. Absolutely. I got a guy that welds really well. He gets it all. He's really good at it. All the exhaust repair goes to Cole. Cole does a good job at it, man. You don't want me welding. I can promise you that.

16:34Well, he can weld and he can like see it and he's young. He's young, he doesn't have 20 years experience. I mean, he's only 5 years experience, but he can look at stuff and he's driven enough shitboxes in his life where he can look at something. And I mean, like, we just give him— he's got a little red toolbox over there full of all these little exhaust connectors, this, that, and the other thing.

16:52He'd be like, oh yeah, I'll just take that out, do this, I need a flex pipe this long, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, we'll fix it, right? Good for him. I can't do that. He doesn't. I got, you know, there's other guys I cannot give that job to. It will not get done. Yeah. And there's— and that's okay. It's okay. But again, you know, we, we talk about it, we hear it in the industry.

17:13I want a guy that can diagnose and that's going to produce, you know, 50, 60 hours a week in a 40-hour work week. Man, that is, that is such a pipe dream. Those guys don't really exist. I think the other thing too is the, the culture in the industry. The front counters are not— a lot of that I do One thing that I do okay-ish is efficiently get through diag stuff.

17:38In most of it, getting most of it billed out correctly, like I used to get super frustrated because I'm doing it. You know how it is. You're the one actually touched the car. You're like, dude, this freaking sucks to try to figure out. It takes this long. You know, a lot of them are fast. Don't get me wrong. You know, a lot of them are like the thing's diag, your report's written, 15 minutes on to the next one.

17:58You get a ton of those. No doubt. Most of it is that, right? But You know, and let's say that 10% takes a little, you know, you know, let's say that, let's say 80% is that. And let's say like the next 15% takes a little longer, you know, I might have an hour into it. So we got to, you know, but, you know, I got it barely done.

18:14But then you get like that last 5% where it's just got towed out of another place or it doesn't make sense or the service or are you working on a Honda with a weird problem? Because Honda, every third step in any service information, replace ECM with known good. Yeah, right. And what I found when I was getting very frustrated about what we were billing for that stuff is I found that I was making the assumption the boys up front understood this.

18:45They don't. And they don't. And it's not their job. And that's not a shot at them. Our guys— I got— I'm gonna, I'm gonna put this out there. Whenever I talk about my own shop, I feel like we have the most cohesive team we've ever had right now, and I'm super happy with it. But sometimes I think one thing as far as what they understand.

19:05I'm like, I'm thinking they're in my head. I'm like, oh, well, well, why do I have to explain this to you? It can't be this. We can't do that. Like, what are you talking about? They just don't know. It's not their job. And the beautiful part is hearing you say that because this is my struggle every day. Yeah. You know, but same, same situation.

19:19I think we finally got a good team together. My, my advisors do a really good job. Um, what we do to kind of try to combat this is I'm big on a complimentary— let's say it's a runnability problem, I'll do a complimentary code scan. And I will— so funny, because people hate parking lot scans. Oh, I'm all for it. We do parking lot scans to make appointments all the time.

19:43That, that is our model. I can't believe, I can't believe you make fun of the people that do free diag, but you do parking lot scans all day because they're like, Jones has a freaking turbocharged engine with a freaking purge valve code. I'm gonna tell her, hey man, this freaking check valve is probably stuck. You probably shouldn't freaking get on this thing going down the road.

20:00It's gonna damage your fuel tank, you know what I mean? Well, let's say, you know, greatest example, we do a lot of European stuff. I get a BMW in, they got a check engine light, pull it in, do your complimentary scan. I got 20 codes in the enhanced side and 5 on the generic. We just went through— that is not a level 1 hour diag.

20:18We just went through this and I did same exact thing on a Mini BMW, whatever. Same thing. And that was just like you said, we're like, I'm like, you know what? I told Will, I said, we are so little into this right now. What's up guys? I was just coming to talk to you about one of my favorite pieces of software that we use in line with TechMetric, that our point of sale system platform that we're using.

20:43And that is Detect Auto. And you've heard me talk about Detect Auto for almost a year at this point. My team loves it. I enjoy it. It makes life easier. And I just want to talk to you about one of those features, and that is just their maintenance tool. If you know how time-consuming and tiring it can be to go back and search history one by one by one by one to get a picture of a vehicle service history before you make your maintenance recommendations, this is going to save an enormous amount of time.

21:07In 30 seconds or less, it's checking CARFAX service history, it's checking OEM service interval recommendations. And it's checking your own internal customized service interval recommendations. And it combines all that information to give you a picture of the maintenance that has been missed or is not known on that vehicle and adds those recommendations automatically to your inspection process. With just a couple clicks of buttons, that can be added also directly into your repair order and your estimate.

21:33I think it's a great tool. It's a great time saver. I love it, and I think you will too. You should give it a shot. If you want to find out more, check out the link to Detect Auto in our show notes. We don't even have to charge this guy at this point, and we can tell him if he would like to drop it off with us and spend about this much money, yeah, to start, and be prepared for the heartburn of being the second owner on this 10-year-old auction vehicle.

22:03It puts you in a position where you can use your experience, but the service writer doesn't know. And see, that's where I was screwing up. I was assuming that the service writer knew that every 12-year-old BMW second owner auction car was going to be a freaking dumpster fire and we need freaking 5 hours to get going or else we're going to be losing our tails when it's got 27 codes in it.

22:21They don't know. They don't. But you know, here's a very uncomfortable conversation. We're technicians and we think back of the house is the hardest thing. I'm sorry, man. I still think being a service consultant, service advisor, service writer, whatever you want to call them, That is still hands down the hardest job in the shop. I don't want the job. We can fix cars.

22:42When that customer comes in our shop and I'm in the office and they're like, they're starting to say the stupid things. I can't do it. I've learned, I turn around and walk out. I do the same thing. Because I'll be like, I can't do their job, man. And then the other thing is, so then like what I finally figured out for me is I'm like, okay, the issue is I'm not communicating this into something they can use to sell the right amount of time.

23:06I'm essentially putting a bunch of jargon that nobody understands in a 3-paragraph write-up and seeing, I need 2 more hours because it might as well be because I said so. Because all this shit doesn't make sense, doesn't make sense to anybody, and it shouldn't. Why would it? They don't do it. So that's like the biggest stride we've made in charging properly for the diagnostic work.

23:27Parking lot, me figuring out how to communicate properly. Absolutely. It was me. That is, you know, we with Tech Fix, you know, Kevin Roth and I do the, the mindset call every second Tuesday of every month. Gotta give the plug there. But this is one of the things we talk about all the time, because let's, let's be real, most technicians don't know how to communicate.

23:48We don't have that ability. And trying to teach very introverted people— let's face it, most of us are introverts. We get into this business because we got to worry about the car. Hyperfocus. ADHD. Absolutely. Absolutely. So trying to learn those skills, like learning soft skills for a technician, probably the hardest skill. You take the lab scopes, you take the scan data, you take any type of testing you have, throw it out the window.

24:14It's learning how to communicate. It's the hardest. It actually got a lot easier once, honestly, once AI came around. Oh, it helps. It helps. Because I'll have something going, I'll have like 4 paragraphs written, and I'll be like, turn this into something that somebody can understand in an 8th grade reading level. All day long. I'll copy and paste that right out of the order, right into Chat AI and say, turn this into something that the normal educated person at 8th grade level can understand.

24:40Yep. And you know, it's not per— you can't just copy and paste that back. You'll read through that and you'll edit some stuff. But dude, I mean, I was riding the struggle bus and it's like, I don't mean to be like this. I'm freaking weird, dude. Like, you know, it's— I tell my techs, you know, I think you guys use tech in the shop, right?

24:55So with tech, I want you go ahead and put the technical. In a spot that we hold in-house, right? So I have something to reference back to. Yeah. But you make it simple where the service advisor and the client can read it. Yeah. So I still want technical because not being at the shop a lot, same with you, you know, from time to time, I can go in there and look at some specifications or I built out an inspection that they're going to follow to the T.

25:25Go ahead and put your technical in there, but I need you to explain to the client really simplistic. What system's broke? Why it's broke? What fixes it? Right? The 3 C's. Let's handle that. What's broke? Why it's broke? And like the stuff that I've honestly used it for is programming. Yes. Like to explain, cause the customer's like, well, you're putting this new computer and what do you mean it's gotta be programmed?

25:44You know? And to explain, well, I'm like, well, what do you mean it's gotta be like, they all, the service information says it's gotta be programmed. No. Well, and then you learn to use maybe AI to help you a little bit. Yeah. And you say, hey, explain why this transmission control module has to be programmed and it breaks it down and like, oh yeah, the transmission control module needs a specific set of instructions for that exact valve body with those exact flow rates, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

26:10And then it like gives up like almost like a metaphor, like another example or whatever, you know, and it's gotten a ton easier, honestly. It really has. But yeah, that's like the biggest problem. Is the communication, letting them know why it needs to be done, not just the whole— and sometimes you get in your head, you're like, why do I have to explain to you?

26:31I just spent 45 minutes testing, doing this, doing that, blah, blah, blah. What are you, what are you talking about? I'm telling you it needs this because I said so. No, that doesn't work. No. Well, think— they can't tell the customer because they said so. Think of it like this, dude. What is— what does most technicians say about a service advisor, right?

26:47You're a technician secretary, which, guys, that is ignorant. Listen to me, that is ignorant. Yeah, it's not like that. They don't do what we do, right? We, you know, uh, Kevin Ross says this to me all the time, you know, as from a technician standpoint, we see things two ways: broken or fixed, black and white. That is it. That is just— had this conversation with Jim yesterday.

27:05That's how we're programmed. We have an issue with a vehicle at the shop and we decided we— long story short, it's not our problem, but it is, but we're just gonna put parts in and just fix it. Like, I'm not— it's a business, it's a business thing, right?. And I literally texted him on my phone yesterday. I texted him. I said, that's the funny thing.

27:25Fixing cars is very black and white. Business is not. Absolutely. Right. Literally texted him yesterday morning on the ride here from the truck. That's the deal. It's the reality, you know, and, you know, we see it black and white. Most technicians devalue what that service consultant advisor, again, whatever you want to call them, what they do. And it's ignorance on our part because Listen, when something doesn't move, we hit it harder.

27:51We don't have the ability to do that with a client. WD-40 and a hammer. Yeah, WD-40 and a hammer. We can't do that with clientele. And really, when you look at it from a different aspect too, like again, as you've progressed in your leadership in the shop, you've learned that as a technician, we get upset with clients a lot. Like the way they ask things, you think they're second guessing.

28:11Oh yeah. But that's not what they're doing. They just don't know. They don't know the questions to ask. What they really want to know is just a couple things. How much? How long? Can I trust you with my money? At the end of the day, that is really all they're looking for. But they don't, they don't know how to convey it. So they may come in and say, I've seen this on Google, or I looked here.

28:31It's not a shot, guys. It's they don't know how to ask questions. And that's where the writer or the consultant really shines because they know how to get those questions out of them. Yeah, a well-trained, a very well-trained writer will be able to do that. And I, I know exactly what you're talking about. They come in with the ChatGPT, or we used to do the thing for years, they'd come in, they'd come in with the AutoZone printout.

28:53Oh yeah. And, uh, I would see back when, back when Jim worked the counter a lot, towards the end of where he was working the counter every day, you know, he's kind of like in and out, he's, I mean, he's very involved actually every day because, you know, we got the shop across the street and everything else, but I used to laugh at it.

29:11I used to think it was funny. He would grab somebody to come in with the AutoZone printout, you know, and he'd— I remember he'd be sitting on the counter, and the way our counter set up like this, there's a garbage can back here. He'd spin around in the garbage can, and I used to think it was the funniest thing I'd ever see.

29:26But it's just like you said, they went there because they don't know anything. This light came on, I don't know what it means. Uh, I stopped here because it was a Sunday So I went to AutoZone, they scanned it, and they say I need an ignition coil. Well, the communication— how do you turn that into, just like you said, we have to understand they don't know.

29:51No, they're not trying to get one over on us. Always in some cases they are. Sometimes they're trying to be cheap. It's an exception. Sometimes they're trying to be cheap. Most of the time they don't know. They don't know about the testing involved. How, how would the customer know? Dude, I can walk— I— we can go to the next 7 shops down the street.

30:09You and I can walk in there right now and ask half the technicians in that shop, the technicians working in the field, how to test the ignition coil. They can't give us a thorough ignition coil test. The difference between 2-wire, 3-wire, 4-wire ignition coil— they can't do it. No. Why should the customer know? Yeah, and you know, the it's a perfect training opportunity for your client.

30:32You know, we always treat that— I don't know who came up with it originally, but you know, a code, right? They went to AutoZone, got the code. I always love doing the zip code mail analogy. Hey, that code may have us in your zip code, but our proper testing— because I hate the word diagnostics, that's my conclusion. I know, I, I use the word too much.

30:51Yeah, and I did too, but like, really I catch myself doing it. It's like the alphabet soup. Yeah, same thing, right? You don't like it, but you still use it. But, but if you explain it to them, hey, the code gets us in your zip code. For through our testing, we're going to get to your street or your neighborhood, right? Then we're going to get to your block, then we're going to get to your small neighborhood, and then I'm going to be knocking on your door and you're going to answer it.

31:13That's what the testing is going to do for us. And most clients, when they hear that, you see the comfort in their face, right? Now every once in a while you're going to get, well, the shop down the street doesn't do this, or, you know, they don't charge, blah blah blah. And that's fine, whatever you want to— whatever. I don't care what the next shop does.

31:30I don't care if you don't charge for diag. Yeah. And sometimes the answer is just, we do. Yeah. Hey, this is how we do it. This is what we do. We do. And we explain it, you know. And, and somebody told you to come here because, you know, turns out we don't advertise at all, and somebody else told you to come here to get your car Yeah, like, because that's— this is what we do.

31:49And maybe you're not accustomed to it, but you're, you know, we sell— that's, that's the other major thing. We sell fixed vehicles. Absolutely. Absolutely. Some people don't like that. Some people are like, well, you're paying for our time. Well, okay, to an extent. If you can't produce a fixed vehicle, what was your time actually— what was your expertise actually worth on that vehicle?

32:15Well, and I've been We bought cars. Uh, same. You sell a guarantee. So when we call a client, if we're wrong, I'm gonna eat it. We're never gonna charge a client for a bad decision. Oh, and I never understand that. I, I don't— oh, total, total side quest. We get a lot of cars in where they've been billed. Oh yeah, for parts installation.

32:38The car's not fixed. Like, sometimes from other— a lot of times from other independent shops. Honestly, I'm not kidding you, a lot of times from dealers. Oh, I get it. I had another shop in our area. He had a problem on a GM vehicle. He couldn't get through it, whatever. He's like, you know what, I'm just going to send it to the dealer.

33:01And it wasn't an intermittent type issue. It was a circuit fault type issue. And they just didn't have what it took to get through it. He didn't have the mixture at the time to get through it of technicians. He's got the guy now. He didn't, he didn't have it done. Look, when I first opened my shop, I thought my old systems would keep up.

33:16The software that I had would continue to evolve, but as we grew, the slow estimates, scattered workflow, increasing downtime, it really just, it was becoming a real problem. That's why I switched to TechMetric. It's not just software. It's a complete shop management system that makes my life easier. Smart jobs, instant estimates, integrated payments. Integrated financing options. I mean, it allows me to focus on the work that actually makes me money and not get bogged down in the other details.

33:44My shop's repair orders have jumped over 300% since switching to TechMetric, and when I need help, their support team responds in real time. I actually was online with them asking questions just this week, and I got answers in minutes rather than having to wait for callbacks and emails days later. If your system is holding you back, it's time for a change. Tap the link in the show notes and see how TechMetric can help you move your shop forward.

34:07He sends it to the dealer and they tell him, okay, yeah, we think it needs an ABS module. Think— we think it needs an ABS module. It's going to be installed and programmed. It's going to be like $2,300 and there's no guarantee. Once you— once you own it, if it doesn't fix the car, he paid the dealer. Like, I'm like, how do you When the vehicle isn't fixed, we have a hard fault code and it's got the same code and the thing's not fixed.

34:36How do we wind up in this world where the customer's paying? That's the deal. That's the, we charge for our time. It's 5% better, Brian. Yeah. We charge for, well, you're paying for that technician's time. His time ain't worth shit. He didn't find the broken wire that was 4 inches from the connector I found. His time wasn't worth anything. No. And I got a great example of this too.

34:57We just recently, probably 3 months ago now, I had a 2.4 multi-air Jeep, one of the small Jeep Renegade. Okay. This poor lady had had this vehicle at 2 dealers and 2 independent shops before they brought it to us. Setting throttle body codes, going into limp mode instantly. New throttle body, new PCM, new connector. Cause you know, worked on the older ones.

35:18It's gotta work on the new ones. Long story short, she comes in by us. She's very upset. They asked me to look at, cause you know, it's gonna be a crazy one. Let's get the shop foreman involved. 90% of the time when they come from other shops, it's power is missing somewhere. So I go to it, you know, and in classes I always teach, you know, you gotta, you gotta have a system, gotta have a process.

35:40I didn't even start the car. I go in and I look at freeze frame when the code's set. I was at 13 RPM, so during cranking. So it's during cranking. So what's the very next data pit I look at is voltage. In the dirt, 7.6. I needed a battery or needed a battery. Fix the car, right? That lady was just like arguing with us.

36:01It wasn't going to fix it. I walked up front. The conversation you and I had earlier— nobody thinks they need to know the fundamentals. Why are you calling me without a battery test and without oil level? Don't call me. Yeah, don't call. Don't let— don't call me if you don't know what the battery test result is. You don't know the oil level.

36:14I don't want you to tell me it's good. Everybody knows it when they call me. If you say it's good, I'll— Brian, if you called, said it's good, or somebody I trust says it's good, I trust what you're telling me. Yeah, but if, if you're not there and you tell me it's good I don't want to sound like an asshole here, but I will hang the phone up.

36:31I will hang the phone up. Yeah, give me specs. But like, I don't— like, so that's like, that's my big beef in this industry. Like, we sell fixed cars and it hurts people's feelings, but man, there's— you're going to run out of talent on cars. Anybody that tells you they don't have— I got a couple Volkswagens and a Jeep I haven't fixed.

36:50Okay, that, that's the reality. That's the real situation. I think the Jeep This is where many years later from when I didn't fix the Jeep, I think I know what was wrong with it now. I think I honestly— I think I honestly— we got a junkyard, it was like a '95 Jeep. Those are the ones that hurt because after the fact, once you get that knowledge, you're like— many years later, I'm like putting two and two together in my head.

37:10I'm like, wait a second, I know what happened. The PCM was bad, and the Jeep that was in the junkyard that the PCM came out of went to the junkyard because that PCM was bad. I'm Pattern. It's the only thing that makes sense. But anyways, that's not fixed. Can't get a hold of it. If I could buy— if I could find that thing— it's crushed.

37:29If I could have bought that thing and fixed it, that's how irritated I am about it. Same thing. And I have, um, I have a Volkswagen Touareg out back that I'm gonna have to figure something out on to make run again because I just— I can't live with it. It's, it's here, but it's not fixed. It's not fixed. I mean, cars that are And I have two, I have two Touaregs out back.

37:49I have a diesel and a gas out back. I'm sorry. That are, and everybody's always like, oh, and as soon as I see somebody in the comments somewhere, oh, I've never, it's always the shop owners. It's always shop owners that are also techs and they're like, I've never had one I haven't fixed, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And the comments 2 weeks later, they're like, hey, I got this '03 Chevy that won't communicate.

38:11And I'm like, does it have an aftermarket radio? Radio and they're like, yeah, why? I go, never mind. Because you don't give them the answer because they're so cocky. You know what's funny you say? You know how many shop owners I've— I worked for a shop owner one time early in my career that looked at me when I was in the middle of some testing and said to me, and this is during the heyday of IATN, just I got to put that out there.

38:31Okay. I don't know what's taking you so long. I can diagnose any vehicle from my computer desk in less than 45 minutes. Handed him the tool and walked out of the office. You know, and guys, this isn't a shot at shop owners, like, not at all. But you are— I hear, I see this all the time. If you've been out of the Bay for a while, the last 5 years, I always make these blanket statements.

38:55It's probably different. Vehicles last longer in certain parts of the country. Vehicles do not last long up by us. No, same. So we're working on, you know, our 2010s are gone. We're not working on 2010s. Very similar situation. We're not working on 2010s. The average mix of vehicle that crossed the threshold into our shop, the technology is continuing to advance at an exponential rate.

39:19If you've been out of the bay for 5 years and you're going to try to make some blanket statement from your desk, don't. Just don't. Yeah. If you think the technician shortage is bad now, go ahead and piss one of them off by saying something like that. And I get it. And there's a lot of issues with techs. I get it. Yeah, I get it.

39:39Absolutely. But it's not what it was. If you've been out of the bay for 10 years, this ain't what it was. Oh no. When you were, you know, even in there, even 6 months, you know, I've been leader, you know, running the shop pretty consistently for about a year. And when I have to go back out and get involved in a car, there's a lot of times I gotta stop I got to practice what I preach.

40:06Theory and operation. How's this thing working? What's the enabling criteria? I'm in the shop almost every day and I just got pinched on it like a couple of weeks ago. It was— I went to do a purge seal on like a '23 Blazer with a 4-cylinder. And these new GMs have these things, they're purge pumps. Yes. So I made the assumption I didn't read, I didn't RTFM.

40:28I have a whole ass class based on RTFM. Literally teaching that class tomorrow, right? Yeah. Made— there's chat groups that people have made with me called RTFM. Had poker chips with RTFM written on them. I have that on my diagnostic cart that I will fix. And your GMs have never changed their EVAP system since 1996. So I roll in there, do a purge seal and it ain't working.

40:48I'm like, oh, this fuel tank pressure sensor is goofy. And I start looking around and the purge— long story short, it's— they added a component. They changed how they purge the engine. Yeah, because then RTFM. That's 3 years ago. But here's the other thing. We talk about this from a technician standpoint. The biggest issue I see, and I bet you see the same thing, we talk about reading the manual.

41:12The reality is a lot of— I'm going to blanket statement Tex, and I don't mean it that way because this is a countrywide problem, but reading comprehension is a serious issue. And the reality is there's a lot of times I will try walking a technician through something and they will read it to me and they don't comprehend. Yes, we see it in our field, but until we fix this, we're fixing anything.

41:37The funniest reading comprehension example I ever made, I ever, I ever had was we had Braxton did this thing where he takes something I say and he cuts it out of context and turns it into rage bait. So it was referring to people who won't read the manual, and because somebody had made a comment that, oh, this whatever is 22 pages long or something.

42:02And I said, copy and paste it into ChatGPT and tell it to summarize it for you. And because they can't comprehend, they don't want to read the 22 pages. The reply comment was, listen to this guy telling us to just type the problem into ChatGPT. The— I was trying to solve his reading comprehension problem and he blocked himself up with more reading comprehension issues because that's not what I said at all.

42:27It's funny how that works though. I remember, I remember, dude, do this to help yourself. He's like, are you seriously saying ask ChatGPT what's wrong with the car? I'm like, that's not at all what I just said. I remember with Tech Fix, Lowell had a video out probably 2, 3 years ago now that got edited. And he straight up said, guys, if you don't have technicians capable of doing advanced diagnostics, stick to brakes and suspension.

42:52And nobody remember that one at all. Oh God. Oh, and they just, I had text messages, emails, messages for months on this. And it's because nobody listened to what he said. He stated, if you don't have those technicians currently, don't get involved with things you're not specialized to do. They will burn you to the ground. Ah, dude, I couldn't do what you guys do, man.

43:14They will burn you to the ground. They will absolutely burn you. I stopped responding in groups because of it. Like, then, then they take they take us as assholes then too, because I'll ask a very— so I'm very big into being direct, right? A direct, you know, difficult conversations. But somebody's being passive-aggressive and you're just going to be regular. Yeah, I'm just going to be direct, right?

43:39Right. Facts, not feelings. I'm big, especially my leadership style is very much facts, not feelings. Yeah, I'm not going to kind of gussy this up for you, but like, hey, so you'll ask a question and then you'll get, oh, that's why nobody goes to technical training because you guys are assholes. Dude, you literally have the answer in front of you. You're just too damn ignorant to see it.

43:57Yeah. And you want to know why you don't get help in these forums? Because you have— man, I watched poor Rich Felco get destroyed in one just a few months ago. One of the most knowledgeable dudes out there. And you want to know why? It's because of stuff like that. I don't know how you guys do it with the podcast, man, because I see you guys get it left and freaking right.

44:15I tell people all the time, the 5 smartest dye guys I know in the country. The 5 smartest— I know I'm very fortunate to know a ton of people smarter than me. If I had to rank them, which would be very difficult because we're talking about the top 0.1% in different specialties, they are different specialties. If I had to pick out the top 5, the top 5 I would pick do not respond in any forums or anything any longer because they're just like They can't deal with it.

44:47They just can't deal with it. The amount of ignorance. Everybody wants a silver bullet. Nobody wants to work. You ask people, just like you said, what are the fuel trims? Good. Yeah. What's good? Good. What's all readings? I just did one a couple of weeks ago. Everything on the scan tool is good. I go, well, the car ain't broke. Like, how do you help these people?

45:10And this is a huge issue. And like, there's owners in this industry that care. They care. They want their goal. Their goal. I was talking to one this morning. I had breakfast with her this morning. Her goal is to be profitable and make all of her employees' lives better. She goes, this, you know, she said, this thing where everybody's talking about serving the public, this, that, she's a bunch of hogwash.

45:33This is my goal. I want to be profitable and make my employees' lives better. There's people who want to do that, but man, the egos make it difficult. The egos are the big thing. But I, I, and I think I know who you're talking about. And it goes back to, uh, again, I gotta, I gotta give Kevin some shout out here. Kevin taught me years ago, Mr.

45:54Roth, he said, you know, there's a circle of business. The owner's got to give first, but they receive last. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, it's the owner takes care of the employees. Yep. The employees take care of the client. Client's going to take care of the business. The business is going to take care of the owner. It's the circle of of, you know, responsibility, I guess, be the best way to put it.

46:16And I, I do think that a— I think a vast majority of ownership have the right intentions. Sure. The, the problem is, is they don't necessarily know how to execute. And let's face it, like, the reason all the coaching companies exist— and, and I'm all for them, I think, I think there's a coach for everybody Yeah, there's a lot of different flavors.

46:42I think that you probably got to find your flavor. You gotta find one. Not everybody's got the same flavor. Not everybody wants to run the same way. But the reality is, is we're techs, right? And I don't own the business. I don't have the financial responsibility that Mark, my owner, does. Okay, I couldn't have that. Okay, I am not financial— I am not financially responsible.

47:01You wouldn't be able to sleep with that much paint on paper. I couldn't do it. That's what they call it with farming, right? Yeah. I, I am very, uh, I would be the employee I would want to hire. And I— this sounds like very egotistical, but I really care. Like, I watch every— like, I watch everything. That's how I got to where I am.

47:20But, you know, most, most owners were former technicians that didn't understand business. And let's face it, a lot of owners still don't understand base business. So, you know, having those is, is huge. But I do, you know, back to the whole thing, I think most owners want to. And the reality is they're just not making the money they thought they were going to.

47:41And that again, that's where I think, you know, I think everybody needs a coach. I've had this conversation with so many techs and they're like, oh, well, I think I'm going to go out on my own. You talk to them and, you know, they think they're being treated unfairly. And I'm like, well, what do you do? This, that, and the other thing.

47:56You get a good feel for where they're at. They tell you what they're making. You ain't gonna make that as an owner. I'm like, that's not gonna work. You're not. No, no. I'm like, you're gonna have to grow. I go, you'll— I go, once you get a 5-bay shop with 5 guys working on in it and, uh, probably a writer and a half, a full-time and a part-time writer at the counter, you could probably make that.

48:23But the perception versus reality Yeah, I, I think these guys, a lot of them think that they're— you're gonna— a lot of them see— the other thing is a lot of them see the result of many years of hard work. Well, and they think that you— huh? That's in anything. Yeah, I mean, think about how many times you sit in a class, you look at a technical trainer and you go, damn, that dude's smart.

48:46No, he's just been beat up. He's standing on a pile of shit that got him there. That's— I tell everybody, like, any success you think I have, first off, I screw up daily. They're like, how did you know that wasn't going to fix it? Uh, because I've put that part on before and it 100% does not fix this problem. And this is the question, even though it says it does, it's hard not to do it, man.

49:04Hard not done that. It's never this, it's never this, it's never this. And then one day it's that. That eventually happens too, right? It's never this, it's never this, it's never this. You get the whole it's never this about 137 times, and then like one day you're like, well, it's not that, I gotta go find the real problem. You can't find the real problem because it was that thing.

49:20And I'm like, okay, well, lesson learned. But yeah, black, white, and gray. Yeah, everybody looks at it and they're like, oh, I'm gonna go out on my own and I'm gonna do this work here. And like, and they think they have this huge— oh, all these customers are going to come to me and this, that, and the other thing because they always come to me.

49:38And then they find out, oh, they were going to that shop because they got a loaner car and they have Synchrony. Um, you're working out of your barn, do you have a loaner car and synchrony so they can finance the repairs? Oh no, you don't. Here's the other thing, company that much. I think from a technician standpoint, I think I would be a better technician today if I was production.

49:57Now understanding technician KPIs, understanding them now, like having a grasp. If I would have had that 10 years ago when I was doing production, what they were looking for, dude, I'd have freaking rockstar. I would have hit 200. No, I'm just joking, but I would have had a much easier life. I actually about to say you'd hit 200 hours a week. No, no, not, not, not me.

50:18Never been sleeping in your toolbox. You just crawl in it and shut the door for 4 hours, come back out. I, I literally just sent one of my first employers a message and thanked him for being— he was kind of an asshole to work for, but I was an asshole employee. And I sent him a message apologizing and said to him like, hey, you're probably the best leader I ever worked for, right?

50:40I didn't understand I understand it now. It's funny how everything comes full circle. One of the first people I ever worked for, um, one of the first— well, the second, the second job at a shop I ever had, um, life happened to him. His dad had a produce business. Long story short, his dad passed away, whatever. And, um, he runs his dad's produce business.

51:01The dude was super smart. He taught me— he was the shop owner that could die back in 2004. This guy could die a car. He knew why. He knew why the car was broke. He would show you. He taught me how to diag a catalytic converter. He taught me how to diag an O2 sensor. He taught me how to diag ignition misfire.

51:20It's so funny because come full circle, he runs this produce business now. So now this guy that got me going in the right direction, this industry, like brings his broken stuff to me. He's like, I don't know what's wrong with this thing. Just awesome. Figure it out, man. You know what I mean? That's awesome. Isn't that awesome how it just came full circle?

51:38That's so great. You know, and I love it, but being able to admit it too. Like, I gotta be honest with you, man, writing him, that was a struggle for me because I remember, I remember when I actually worked for him twice. Okay. And on the second leaving, or maybe it was the first, I don't even remember anymore. He— it's your— I mean, years ago, and I've got the memory of my second leaving.

52:00Yeah, I don't remember. Dory the goldfish is me anyway. But, um, he said, you're only successful because of me. And I held that close to the freaking chest for years. And I gotta be honest, when I started getting a little bit of popularity, I guess I'd say, I made sure he seen it. Right. Kind of, kind of as an asshole move. But in retrospect, a lot of who I became was because of him.

52:28Right, right. But that was a hard— that was a hard pill to— right, very hard pill to swallow to say, you know what, you did have whether it was positive or negative, we'll leave that out. But you had, you did have an impact, enough of an impact for me to get my shit together and get in the right direction. Yes, absolutely. And you know, me at 25 versus me at 40 today, I, I appreciate it a lot better than I did then.

52:50Cuz back then, you know, you're, you're on, you know, pure testosterone. Like, nobody's going to tell me anything. I'm 25 years old, I know everything, I've done everything, don't talk to me. Yep, absolutely. And, and again, like, from a technician standpoint now, understanding my KPIs as a technician. I think if more technicians learn those before they wanted to go out and be an owner, I think it'd be a fucking reality check.

53:15Forgive my language, but it would be one hell of a reality check for a lot of us. Right. That's awesome. That's great advice for all the technicians out there. Every one of you. Because we have technicians that listen to this podcast because they get ahold of me sometimes. So complaining about their ESO. So, well, what a great conversation. We've been at this for about an hour.

53:36Dang, time flies, brother. Right. I really appreciate you being on. Thank you, man. Uh, I appreciate you. Maybe I'll pop into your class later. I won't ask any questions. I try to behave. I try to behave when I'm in your class. Guys, I need you to understand, was it 2 years ago? Before we end this, 2 years ago, I believe it was here at Tools.

53:52Was it like your first major teaching day? I taught Super Saturday. You were going to teach 8 hours. You were teaching an 8-hour class. I was filling in then too. That's right. And not only, so I want you guys that want to teach, and I encourage anybody to teach because if you want to get good at something, you got to teach. Yeah, yeah, yes.

54:11And that's scientifically proven. This asshole sits in my front quarter along with Kokonas, Steckler. I brought Steckler, uh, Mr., Mr. Jim Wilson. Mr. Jim, I love— yeah, old man Wilson. And shout out to Mr. Wilson. And there was a couple others, I, I don't remember who they were. There was a bunch of us in there because everybody's like, what are you doing this morning?

54:30Everybody's gonna goof off. I'm like, Andrew Fisher's gonna like teach his first major gig. I'm like, let's go sit in the front row of this thing. And nobody would sit in the front row, but I sure did. Right in the front quarter. And you know what, I still to this day, every time you teach, I'm teaching the same session. So I never— you can never get it.

54:45I can never do it. It pisses me off, man. I think, uh, I think when, uh, when class submissions and stuff came up for this, I told Brett, I go, I will, I will teach, but I have to teach at the same time Andrew Fisher teaches because he's not gonna sit in the front row of my class and heckle me. But I don't think heckled you.

55:01You know what, I'll tell you this though, that was some of the best constructive criticism. And as an instructor, get ready for that. Um, that was some of the best constructive criticism I ever got. Um, you know, Brandon pulled me aside, worked with me. You and I talked. Jim busted my balls the entire time. And it wasn't anything negative. It's like, hey, hey, that's really cool how you did this.

55:21I maybe would have done this. And then you were, you know, it was just whatever, you know. And I learned a ton of stuff in the class too. Great. It was a great class. It was career technical training career-changing for me. Oh, that's awesome. And you know, as much crap as I give you over it, it definitely was one of the best things that could have ever happened.

55:40Oh, that's awesome. So thank you. I will never admit that again. So edit that out when you do the edits. Edit that out for accident. But no, it was humbling. It was here, I think it was 2 years ago. It was last year. Last year I had to hurry up, get in because my kids graduated. I remember you were in and out last year.

55:55I taught Sunday morning, so we drove. You taught Sunday morning? Yep. I had enjoyed a little bit too many adult beverages. I made sure to text you. I said, hey, I thought your class was great. My head really hurts. I have to go sit somewhere else where there's no noise. No, this is not you, man. Your class is great. Tools is always so great to me, man.

56:16You know, we're all blessed, you know, all these, all these organizations that, you know, allow allow us to teach and the, the conferences. And then like Benji, Benji and Chad bringing me into their shop. I got— still got to do some stuff for Dan. I owe him. Yeah, I own, uh, Joe some stuff. So I'll make sure to sit in the— when you're at Dan's shop, I'll come sit in the front row of that too.

56:36You know what, in his shop I can get away with saying a lot more. So, but yeah, you know, I just want to thank everybody for that. You know, it's, it's definitely humbling, you know. And, uh, you know, didn't forget where I came from as far as the technical training goes. I do appreciate you brother. I appreciate you too. Thanks for being on.

56:52Thanks for listening to Confessions of a Shop Owner, where we lay it all out— the good, the bad, and sometimes the super messed up. I'm your host, Mike Allen, here to remind you that even the pros screw it up sometimes. So why not laugh a little bit, learn a little bit, and maybe have another drink? You got a confession of your own, or a topic you'd like me to cover, or do you just want to let me know what an idiot I am?

57:10Email mike@confessionsofashopowner.com or call and leave a message. The number is 704-CONFESS. That's 704-266-3377. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to like, subscribe, or follow. Join us on this crazy journey that is shop ownership. I'll see you on the next episode.