He Made $3.1 Million and ZERO Profit (And How He Fixed It) | EP4 | Shop Fix Academy Podcast

Stop Refusing Cars! This Is How Marketing REALLY Turns Into Profit | EP20 | Shop Fix Academy Podcast

Most auto repair shop owners assume weak car count means they need more marketing, but sending more customers into a shop that isn't ready to say "Yes" can make the REAL problem even worse. Ryan Hillenbrand joins Guy Roberts and Michael “The Berg” Rosenberger to explain how better operations, stronger average repair orders, and a consistent customer experience have to come before aggressively buying more demand. Learn the marketing tiers a growing repair shop should work through, from the opportunities already available inside the business to professional digital marketing and the advanced tactics many owners jump into too early. Your repair shop needs to convert its marketing into sustainable revenue before deciding where the next marketing dollar should go.Our Sponsors:Tekmetric is the all-in-one platform built specifically for auto repair—it's what modern, growth-minded shop owners are running on. https://auto.tekmetric.com/4g8XPX0 When Leads Near Me and Shop Fix Academy work together, auto repair shops win. When proven digital marketing combines with powerful coaching and a passionate community, the results are remarkable!Book your strategy session today. Mention code SHOPFIX and get $500 off your first month.https://leadsnearme.com/ShopFixPodcast/Our Products:If you want your shop to reach the next level, start with the person leading it and build your foundation with Shop Fix LITE.⁠https://shopfixacademy.com/shop-fix-lite?utm_source=sfa-podcast&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=join-lite&utm_content=cta⁠Better leadership starts with learning what to do differently, so create your free training account and start putting proven Shop Fix strategies to work in your shop.⁠https://shopfixacademy.com/free-training?utm_source=sfa-podcast&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=freetrainingaccount&utm_content=cta⁠Motivation can get you started, but growth takes continued execution, so see what’s coming up at Shop Fix Academy and get in the room for what’s next.⁠https://shopfixacademy.com/upcoming-events?utm_source=sfa-podcast&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=sfa-events-2026&utm_content=cta

How A Software Engineer Built A $1.5M/Month Multi-Shop Operation | EP19 | Shop Fix Academy Podcast

A shop can stay busy yet still lose money when the owner doesn't know which numbers to track, which systems are broken, or what needs to change first. In this episode, Guy Roberts and Michael “The Berg” Rosenberger sit down with Matt Carlson, a former Microsoft software engineer who had never worked in a professional repair shop before starting his own. Matt eventually grew to five locations generating $1.56 million in one month! Matt breaks down how broken workflows, pay plans, and a lack of accountability kept his first shop stuck, and what happened when he finally began implementing the systems and coaching already available to him. Improving the way you operate doesn't require abandoning the purpose behind your shop. A strong mission can help attract the right employees, customers, and community. Learn how Matt turned operational chaos into scalable growth, while creating a cycle between business and nonprofit that makes a much larger impact beyond the shop.

How To Build Systems So Good Your Auto Shop Runs Itself | EP18 | Shop Fix Academy Podcast

Almost every shop owner can relate to being so stuck working as a technician in their shop that they never have a chance to grow the business itself. Shop Fix Academy Coach Kyle Meadows was in the same boat: sleeping at the shop so he could work 24/7, just trying to get the next mortgage payment, always working on the next car..but he actually found a way out, and in this episode he breaks down how you can do the same! From less thank $20K months at his auto repair shop to averaging over $600k months now, Kyle has locked down VITAL systems and processes that make it so he doesn't even have to BE AT THE SHOP.Learn the specific techniques he uses at his shop today that allowed him to spend 4 months this year on vacation while his shop was still printing money! Anyone can achieve true freedom in their shop with the right systems.

Eric Thomas: Give Up Your Dreams OR Give Up Your Life! | EP17 | Shop Fix Academy Podcast

Most struggling shop owners are not short on effort. They are repeating activity without the disciplined execution, self-leadership, and culture needed to move the business forward. In this episode of the Shop Fix Academy Podcast, Guy Roberts and Michael “The Berg” Rosenberger sit down with Eric Thomas to explain why motivation can start the engine yet fail to carry a business to the next level. Eric reveals how consistent activity becomes rehearsed failure when a team stays busy without producing the required result. Learn why successful owners plateau, how past wins create complacency, and why the leader must change before the shop can grow. From visible standards and team fit, to accountability that requires strong commitment, this conversation shows how a repair shop can create consistent performance without depending on individual heroics.If you want your shop to reach the next level, start with the person leading it and build your foundation with Shop Fix LITE.https://shopfixacademy.com/shop-fix-lite?utm_source=sfa-podcast&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=join-lite&utm_content=ctaBetter leadership starts with learning what to do differently, so create your free training account and start putting proven Shop Fix strategies to work in your shop.https://shopfixacademy.com/free-training?utm_source=sfa-podcast&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=freetrainingaccount&utm_content=ctaMotivation can get you started, but growth takes continued execution, so see what’s coming up at Shop Fix Academy and get in the room for what’s next.https://shopfixacademy.com/upcoming-events?utm_source=sfa-podcast&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=sfa-events-2026&utm_content=cta

215 - Ask Me Anything: Car Count vs. Profit - Why More Cars Doesn't Always Mean More Profit

215 - Ask Me Anything: Car Count vs. Profit - Why More Cars Doesn't Always Mean More Profit August 5, 2026 - 00:53:54 Show Summary: Higher car count does not always create higher profit. Excess volume can lower repair order averages and increase mistakes while exhausting the team. Strong financial data helps owners find the right workload for their business model. Shops should improve margins and workflow before investing in more marketing or staff.   Host(s): Lucas Underwood, Shop Owner of L&N Performance Auto Repair and Changing the Industry Podcast Cecil Bullard, Founder of The Institute   Show Highlights: [00:01:00] – Higher repair orders can create less stress and a better client experience. [00:04:00] – Strong sales mean little when the business still loses money. [00:09:00] – Last minute work can disrupt promises and increase costly mistakes. [00:15:00] – Excess car count often lowers sales and employee satisfaction. [00:18:00] – Every shop must find the workload that supports its model. [00:20:00] – Clean financial data helps owners make sound business decisions. [00:22:00] – Fix weak margins before spending money to attract more clients. [00:28:00] – A thoughtful response can protect workflow without rejecting the customer. [00:42:00] – Adding technicians without strong processes can create greater chaos. [00:49:00] – Clear goals and accountability help employees understand how to succeed.   In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://youtu.be/7M70n_DfTDg   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com.   Episode Transcript: Ask Me Anything Car Count vs. Profit - Why More Cars Doesn't Always Mean More Profit Lucas Underwood: What is up, everybody? Hey, y'all. It's Lucas Underwood from the Changing the Industry podcast and L&M Performance here in Blowing Rock, North Carolina. I am joined today by the one, the only, Mr. Cecil Bullard. We're gonna be talking about car count versus profit. Cecil, how are you today, buddy? Cecil Bullard: I'm doing fantastic as usual, Lucas. Lucas Underwood: Very good. Very good. So Cecil, one of the, one of the things I'll never forget, I taught a class at a industry event one time, and I had been in another class where the person was talking about do whatever it takes to get them in the door, and they'd been in a shop, and they were in their own shop, and the, the advisor had turned down a car at 4:00 in the afternoon that came in for a coupon oil change and wanted to wait. And so she chased the person back out into the parking lot and said, "No, no, no, no, no, we'll get you in. We'll make it work. I'm gonna pull a technician off something else. I'm gonna put them on this," and fired an advisor over it. And I've, I'd been in that class, and I'm talking about that in this training, and that person was sitting in the back of the class and I didn't see Cecil Bullard: him. Yeah. Lucas Underwood: And, and the thing that I said about it was this, is I said, "Listen, one of the most impactful things that I've ever experienced was being on the other side of an experience like that as an advisor, as a technician, what it feels like to feel that kind of pressure and why we shouldn't do that to our people And so I know there's been a massive movement, movement in the industry that's pushing people to say yes to every car that comes in the door. Doesn't matter what it is, just more cars, more cars, more cars, more cars. And I have had a very, very different experience than that. I am someone who has experienced a higher ARO with less stress and less pressure on our people, a better experience for the client, and I have found that that works best for me. And I'm not saying it works best for every organization, but I wanted to dig in with you and talk a little bit about this. Are you a say yes to every car man, or are you a balanced car count and balanced ARO man? Help me understand. Cecil Bullard: I think there's a, I think there's both, frankly. Um- Okay ... it, it has to make common sense, and I think you're really talking about two different things. So first of all- Yeah ... you know, before you fire someone for not doing what you want, does the person really understand what you want, right? Yeah. I mean, is that, is that well defined? Did the guy know that no matter what, I have to bring that car in? Uh, you know, so at 4:00, your service advisor made a decision. He'd made promises to other customers that they would have their cars. Yeah. And instead, now you're jumping in the middle of that and you're saying, "Well, I'm gonna fire this guy because he turned down a, a discount oil change or whatever." Yeah. Maybe a dis- and it- maybe a dis- you know, the guys, the discount oil change guys would say, "Well, yeah, but we do discount oil changes 'cause it leads to other sales." Lucas Underwood: Right. Cecil Bullard: But so that's one thing, you know? I- I- is the person who works at your counter... Um, I, I was in, uh, North Carolina. You saw me last week. I was on the road- Yeah ... for four da- after one of my meetings, and this happens a lot, one of the kids came up, young guy, uh, looked like he was about 14, but he was probably in his 20s, and he's like, "I'm a third generation. My dad runs the shop, but, but you know, my dad, he's getting in the middle of everything. It's really hard." And, and, uh, I, I always say you work for someone, they write you a check- You have to make a decision about what you're willing to put up with or not put up with, right? For sure. As an, as an employee, right? Lucas Underwood: Yep. Cecil Bullard: And so when you decide that I, I wanna work here and I wanna take the check, i- in a way you also decide I'm gonna follow the rules of the company, whatever those are. Yeah. Whether Cecil agrees with them or Lucas agrees with them or, or whatever. None of that really matters. What matters is that the person that's writing you a check is, is basically saying, "This is how I wanna do it," right? Lucas Underwood: Right. Cecil Bullard: And, you know, behind the scenes, we can have all the arguments we want. We can sit down and go, "I don't think that's correct." Um, a- a- but until the owner changes their mind about how we do this, then you gotta do- That's how business Lucas Underwood: runs ... Cecil Bullard: you gotta do how, what the owner wants. And so if that employee got terminated legitimately because- Yeah he knew better, then I'm, I'm fine with that. I, I, I think we have a craziness in our industry. I think we've all lost our minds because You know, you, you look at car count, car count. I mean, that's everybody's... That's like the mantra, right? More cars, more cars. I'll make money if I have more cars. Yeah. Well, that's, that's not necessarily true. It's never been true, frankly. Lucas Underwood: Right. Cecil Bullard: Right. You know, we have these shops. I mean, I can't tell you how many times, you know, having done seminars in the industry for well over 20 years and, and, and worked with automotive- thousands of automotive shops, we have these shops that come in, they're doing $2 million a year worth of business and losing money. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And, and so... And we also have shops, frankly, that are doing, you know, uh, 700,000 and losing money, and, and I'm pretty sure there's shops out there doing 10 million and losing money. Yeah. Uh, there's a balance and there's a way to run your business that is successful, right? Yep. Lucas Underwood: Absolutely. 100%. So- And, and look, h- I, I'm gonna, I'm gonna take a play directly from the Cecil Bullard playbook, okay? Hey- I'm gonna pull the play straight out of the playbook because you said something that I think we need to address right here and right now, okay? We Cecil Bullard: lost our minds in our industry? Lucas Underwood: Well, I mean, you would've had to have had one to have lost it, okay? You have to have something to lose it. So, I, the industry in that sense, we're in trouble. But, you know, th- this brings up something that's completely off-topic and, and I'm just gonna ask you what you think about it. There's all these technicians who are really upset right now, right? They're, they're very disgruntled, and it's primarily in the dealership space, right? You know I make these videos and they come out- Yeah every single Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday and Sunday. Yeah. And these videos come out, and all these dealership guys get so upset and so mad because they think that I'm talking about the dealership space. And I keep saying to them, like, you set the terms for what you're willing to accept in that, that job, in that role as an employee, and if you don't like the job, for God's sakes, leave. Cecil Bullard: Yeah, there's- And if Lucas Underwood: everybody leaves- Cecil Bullard: There's so many... There, I mean, you know, I, I think if you got a thousand shop owners in a room and you said, "How many of you need a good technician in your shop?" You know, 999 hands would go up, right? Yeah. Um, the, the... And, and yet we have these techs that are so miserable in their lives, in their sh- in the shop that they're at, and the, bec- the owner doesn't pay me, doesn't appreciate me, doesn't whatever, or she doesn't- Yeah or whatever. Okay, Lucas Underwood: cool. Why Cecil Bullard: are you there? Go somewhere else. Right. I mean, holy, holy crap. Um, yeah. I'm with you, man. I mean- I am like, uh... And I was t- I talk about the level of incompetence you're willing to accept. I, I do that- Yeah ... with owners because, you know, nobody's gonna be Cecil, right? Yeah. And by the way, in Cecil's head, in my brain, I think I do it right all the time. Right. Yeah. I mean, there's a piece of me that knows that's not true, right? But we're all a little- Sure ... insane in some ways, and we think that, you know, we, we know how to do things, and we think that our way is the right way. And, and, but as an owner, I'm gonna work twice as hard as pretty much anybody else, you know? Yeah. If it... I, I was talking to one of our, um, our marketing people. I, I used to print our workbooks, and I used to write our workbooks, and I used to edit our workbooks. Yeah. And, excuse me. I don't, I don't do that now, but I was, I was talking to her and I said, "You know, I used to be here at 2:00 in the morning-" Lucas Underwood: Yeah Cecil Bullard: printing workbooks because I had a class the next day that I needed the workbooks for- Uh ... and putting them together. 100%. And now I'm really glad I don't have to do that. Lucas Underwood: But- We, you know, we got a, we got a review the other day b- at the family business, and it said, "The owner was in there serving food." And I wanted to reply and say, "Yeah, because, like, I gotta do whatever I gotta do." 'Cause Cecil Bullard: everybody quit, and, and I'm in trouble, and I c- I'm the only one. Otherwise, I wouldn't be there. Lucas Underwood: Right. I've gotta do what I gotta do, right? Yeah. Like, this is how we're gonna survive. And, and I, uh... What is it that old Dutch always says? Like, "I'm paying for the blessings of tomorrow with the sacrifices of today." Of today. Whatever it takes. But Cecil Bullard: we a- you know, a- and so you, you create the level of incompetence. And I would say from an owner's point or a manager's point, you say, "Okay, in that position, I'm willing to accept 3% warranty," right? Yeah. So I've got a tech, I'm willing to accept 35 hours a week as a, okay, that's, like, you, you, you hit 35, you're, you're still in my good graces. You- Lucas Underwood: Right ... Cecil Bullard: you only have 3% warranty, you're still in my good graces. But, but also employees have to do the same thing. I mean, you have to decide, what am I willing to put up with? Am I willing to put up with- Yeah ... crappy pay? Well, if you do, and you take the check, and you keep taking the check- Lucas Underwood: Ain't Cecil Bullard: nothing gonna change then shut up. Right? Right. I mean, stop bitching about it. And we're, we're a, an interesting industry. Like you said, maybe we never had a mind, but- Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: you know, we, we, we constantly eat our tails, you know? Yeah. We constantly bitch and bitch and bitch, and, and we don't W- I don't even think we fully understand. So, you know, I'm pretty sure if, um, if, uh, uh, Aaron Stokes was still alive and, and we had Aaron on this, Aaron would be saying, "Yeah, you say yes, and you say yes because of this, this, and this," right? Yeah. Because that was w- that's one of their philosophies, was that yes philosophy. And on the same time, I would be saying Yeah, but sometimes you gotta say no. Yeah. Because you've already made promises to other customers because you're pulling a guy off of a $5,000 job that he could finish up- Lucas Underwood: For a $29 Cecil Bullard: oil change ... and you're gonna have him do a, an oil change where you're gonna lose $35. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And then he's gotta come back to the $5,000 job, and he's gotta get his head back in the game. So now you've increased the odds of, of mistakes happening, comebacks, et cetera. And so I think there's a point where you say to the customer, "Look, you know, we, we would love to do that oil change for you, absolutely. Only I can't do it tonight, right now, because my techs are all tied up on other jobs, and we've made promises to customers." Absolutely. "And I'm pretty sure if you were one of those customers who I made a promise to, you would not want me pulling the tech off of your car to do someone else's- To, to do that ... service or whatever it is, right?" I, I think- And it's not even about a $29 oil change. If it was a $300 oil change, I still wouldn't pull my guy off of a $5,000 job- Yeah at 4:00 to do that oil change. Lucas Underwood: I, I think it's easy, right? Like, so, so my vision of leadership is, is my job is to create a awesome environment for my internal customers, my employees. Right. And, and currently I'm not in the shop that much, so it is my managers' job to create an amazing experience for them, and then they in turn create an amazing experience. The desired outcome is a safely and properly repaired automobile for our consumer that is safe and reliable for them and their families. Or that, that's what we're trying to accomplish, and we have the guardrails which say, "Here is the, the metrics of profitability that we expect, and so you guys stay within these guardrails. Here's where you're going. This is the roadmap. This is what we want." You saw the roadmap. Well- I've, I've got it on the whiteboard, right? Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And so- And you're also not, you're not setting yourself up for success here, right? I'm, I'm bringing a, a $29 oil change. So I'm working with, uh, big old tire guys, uh, not, not the big company, but a guy who owns three locations. Yeah. And we're doing free tire rotations and free brake inspections. Yeah. We're doing hundreds of them. You know what we're selling? Probably Lucas Underwood: nothing. Nothing, Cecil Bullard: right? Lucas Underwood: Right. Cecil Bullard: Because we're so busy doing the tire rotations and brake inspections, we forget to look at the car. We don't have time to get to the Lucas Underwood: actual work Cecil Bullard: that they could approve. We, we forget to estimate the work and, and we don't have time to have a conversation with the customer. Yeah. And so I'm, I'm literally going... I said, "Why, why do you guys do free brake, uh, you know, inspections, free tire rotations?" Yeah. He said, "So we can look at the car." Well, you forgot that- Does it matter if you're not getting the end of it? somewhere along the... Yeah. So now I'm gonna bring this, this oil change in, and we'll get to that question in just a second, but I, I just have to make the point. I'm gonna bring this guy in at 4:00. It's a waiter, you know? Yeah. Uh, we're gonna service the car, and if I have a good technician do a good inspection, we're 35, 45, 50 minutes in. So now we're pushing 5:00 Then we will find stuff on this car that needs to be talked about. Customer may not buy it, but it needs to be talked about. The whole reason I'm doing the cheap oil change is to get the guy in so I can look at the car and try to sell him the things that he really needs, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Except now it's close to 5:00. Is that customer gonna sit for another 15, 20 minutes while- Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: my service advisor estimates the work, and then is he gonna sit for another 15 or 20 minutes with my service advisor after that to discuss what he needs- In- ... so that he can make a good decision? Lucas Underwood: In this instance, the, the, their theory was is like just, just find one thing wrong with the car that will make them leave it, and then do an inspection and provide the inspection later. I didn't feel like that was very kosher. Cecil Bullard: It's not my, it's not the way that I would- Lucas Underwood: No, I didn't feel like Cecil Bullard: it ... I would approach it. And it's certainly, it's certainly not the way that I would teach. I don't wanna have three phone calls with you, right? Yeah. Or three meetings. I don't wanna find one thing and say, "Oh my God, your, y- you know, your oil leak is coming out of the, the whatever timing cover so badly, we've gotta do your timing cover, and it's gonna cost X, Y, Z." And you go, "Okay, you know, I've seen the leaks. Do it." Yeah. And then you leave And then I go, "Oh, and now we've had time to check the car over, so here's another $5,000 worth of crap." Right. I don't wanna have that. I wanna have one conversation. I don't wanna have three or two, right? Right. I may have two because when we get in the middle of stuff, uh- Yeah we may find something- My vein's gonna have to- ... that are related that, that we can't see at that point in time with a basic inspection. But I certainly don't wanna have three conversations. And- Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: and I think you're, um... Everything is i- with a client is about how does that client feel about us, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And that experience with us. And, and so by telling him yes, I made him feel good, okay? So yeah. Tell him, any, anytime you tell someone, "No, I, I really can't do that," if that's all you say, you're in trouble, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Or no. Uh, nobody wants to hear no, right? Yeah. "Oh, my gosh, I would love to do that for you right now, but unfortunately there's just not enough time, and if we did it right now, we wouldn't do you a justice. We wouldn't be able to-" Yeah "... inspect the car. We wouldn't be able to tell you about what's going on with the car. You would not have the information you need to make intelligent decisions, and my whole job is making sure that you have the information you need to make the right decisions about Lucas Underwood: your car." Is advising you, being your advocate. Cecil Bullard: That, that's what I do, right? Yeah. And so this, this yes mentality and this car count thing of just driving as many cars through. We... I watch... I'm a numbers guy. You, y- everyone in the industry kinda knows, you know? Cecil understands the numbers or thinks he does. And- Yeah and I watch shops drive car count, and as they drive car count, I watch sales go down. I watch- Yep ... average repair- Yes ... orders go down. I watch mistakes go up. Employee satisfaction Lucas Underwood: go down. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. The whole nine yards. Employees are, are running around- Yep ... like chickens with their head cut off. Yep. There's a lot more inefficiencies that, that happen in the business. Yeah. And so if you, if you run a shop and you really pay attention, you'll learn where your sweet spots are, right? Yeah. Where does the shop make m- the most money? Where does the shop create the most happy clients? Where does the shop create the best average repair order? You know? Yeah. Those things that matter to me. And then where does the shop create the most profit? Because y- I, I have to, I have to be profitable here i, in the short term, and frankly, in the long term. Yeah. Otherwise, I, I have to go work f- For somebody else, and I'm not employable Lucas Underwood: Right. I, I'm the same way, and I, I think it's important, right? O- one of the things that I'm bad for doing is painting with a broad brush. Yeah. If you own, own a tire store, right? And, and you can turn hundreds of tires a day, that, that's a different model than what we're discussing. We're not talking about a high volume just tire store or something like that. That's a very different model. But even then, these same practices work in that tire store the same way they work in, in a mechanical shop. Cecil Bullard: And- Most of, most of the tire guys that I know are- Mm-hmm ... probably doing 50% tires, 50% um- Mechanical ... at least. Yeah. I mean, I know there's some that are 70% tires, 30% service, but I don't know of- Yeah ... any tires, uh, other than maybe discount tires, that are only doing tires. Just tires. Yeah And not getting into any of the service at all. Um- Lucas Underwood: Well, you know, I, I thought, I was, I've talked with Mark Ponz a lot. Brilliant, brilliant businessman, right? And, and one of the things that I always learned from Mark was, was, "Hey, watch the way we do tire business," and then we kinda shift gears in the mechanical business. You have to. It runs a little bit differently, right? Cecil Bullard: It's a different business, right. Lucas Underwood: And so you've got your tire team that's out here just nailing the tires out, and that's what they do every single day. And, and I've, I've, because of ASEA, I've had some amazing opportunities to work with some of the best tire men in the entire country. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: And, and I always, I was the guy saying like, "You can't make it with tires." How do you make it? And then I meet Mark Ponz and I'm like, "Whoof. He did more than make it with tires." Cecil Bullard: Holy smokes, you can make a lot of money with tires. Yes. But- Lucas Underwood: Yes ... Cecil Bullard: it's a different margin, it's a different business. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. And it, it's ran differently. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: And so, you know, I found my sweet spot to be three cars a day per tech, somewhere between $900 and $1,100 on my ARO. That, that's my sweet spot. That's where we run. That's where things work. We get too much higher than that, we start getting into very complex jobs. And, and listen, I talk to a lot of shop owners, "I got a $3,000 ARO. That's too high." And they're like, "What are you talking about that's too high?" Well, Cecil Bullard: if, if you're a diesel shop, it's not. For sure. If you're a European shop, you're pushing the edge. But- For Lucas Underwood: sure ... Cecil Bullard: but if you're a general repair shop, it's, it's too high, right? Lucas Underwood: Exactly. It means you're Cecil Bullard: doing engines and transmissions all day. It also means you're doing a lot of heavy duty work. Engine repair. And if you're doing a lot of heavy duty work, the margins and the matrixes that- You currently would have in place normally that would be taught to you will never work for your business- Yeah to make the profit you need. Lucas Underwood: Exactly. Right. You're 100% right. You're 100% right. And, and I think that's why, you know, it's like when I talk to folks about coaching with the Institute, I'm always saying, "Listen, there is no cookie cutter model that fits every shop." Like, this is a- I think there, Cecil Bullard: I think there is, frankly. I mean, if you say, "I'm a tire store," there's a model that works best. Yeah. If you say, "I'm a- I don't Lucas Underwood: disagree ... Cecil Bullard: I'm a discount store-" I don't disagree with that ... there's, there's a model that works best. Yeah. But, you know, I was... A- and again, I, I have never run a discount store, so I've never done- Yeah ... a cheap oil change or anything cheap. Or frankly- Right ... I'm, I never, when I was running shops, I never was a discounter. So- Yeah ... I don't understand that model. And I know some guys, however, that run really discount. Yeah. I've known some guys in my life. And, and their model works for them, only their techs are usually, uh, pretty transient because- Yeah they're just- Discount model, that's it ... they're not paying them enough, and they're running too many cars through, and that's, their service advisors can be somewhat transient in that business, and their customers can be somewhat transient in that business. Yeah. So the other part of that is if I'm running a discount model, I have to keep really hounding- Yeah marketing. Tha- those are the guys that are also saying you need to send out 10,000 to 40,000 mailers every month so you can bring- Yeah ... these oil changes in, so you can do enough business to- Here- ... you know, to be profitable. Lucas Underwood: Here, here's my thing, though, okay? When, when we look at the numbers, right? When we look at the financials, because I talk to Eric Jordan all the time at Geisen. Cecil Bullard: Yeah, yeah. Lucas Underwood: And I'm like, "Dude, I... You know where I was at, I didn't have clean numbers." I, I ran through a, a spell where we didn't have good bookkeeping and, and our numbers were a mess. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: And it's impossible to run a business without good clean numbers, right? And so what I'm saying, though, Cecil, is that without good clean numbers, without good clean data, there is no model that's gonna work. And I think that when they have good numbers, that GP number that you have to hit every single month to pay the bill- Cecil Bullard: Yeah ... Lucas Underwood: what, what the shop down the street's charging- They don't, they don't- ... is irrelevant to you. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. They also- Lucas Underwood: What you have to make is what you have to make. Cecil Bullard: If you don't have clean numbers, you make mistakes. Yeah. And you make bad decisions. So, you know, imagine- I've made bad Lucas Underwood: decisions with clean numbers, Cecil. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Right, yeah. But, but, you know, imagine that we brought a new car in or a, you know- Yeah ... a four-year-old whatever, and we didn't have a scanner, and we couldn't get the data- Yeah ... out of the car, and so now what are we doing? Now, now it's the, you know, well, I, I, based on my experience, I think, or- Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: you know, my tech is saying, "Let's- Yeah ... place re- let's rep- replace these six parts. Maybe that's gonna solve the problem." Yeah. I, I don't wanna be that company. I wanna be the company that says, "I know exactly what's going on with your, with your business, and- Yeah these are the three or the five things that we can do that will really improve your business and- Yeah ... put more money in your bottom line, create more happy, happier employees, happier- uh, clients, et cetera. For sure. Um, we do have a question. Let's- Yeah. Kyle ... let's get to the question. 2020, Kyle. I know that this is supposed to be ask me questions, so, and I've al- I have kinda read the question, but I'll let you read it. I read it myself, so. Yeah. " Lucas Underwood: I'm a mobile programming and testing company netting 8% currently." Now, Kyle is a, a fairly new company, very proud of him, doing awesome things. "My GP's 55% per RO, but my car count is only about 10 per week, so two a day. Should my next step be more investment into marketing or jump into coaching to maximize what I currently have?" Cecil, what do you think? Cecil Bullard: Well, I would, I, I, I would lean on the coaching side, and here's why. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Y- Cecil Bullard: you're supposed to be making net 20, and your gross profit is off by, uh, what is that? 12, 14 points. Yeah. I mean, I need 62 to 64% GP. Lucas Underwood: Yep. Cecil Bullard: And I need to know where that's missing. For sure. And what I have to do to get that. So you can bring more cars in at this point, and you'll st- and, and if you maintain a, a net eight, you're just gonna... If you wanna make tw- you know, the 200 K you told- A higher Lucas Underwood: net eight. Cecil Bullard: I wanna make, I don't know, I wanna make $200,000. At 8%, $200,000 is an awful lot of cars to work on, an awful, awful lot of places to make mistakes, and a lo- awful lot of liability. Yeah. At 20%, you know, $200,000 is a lot less cars, it's a lot less liability, and a lot less places to make mistakes. I- So for me, I, I'm, I might do both. It, it would depend on, you know... I mean, 8%, if you're doing, you know, 10,000 a month, okay, I'm making 8%, that's, in my opinion, that ain't enough to survive. You know, if you're doing 100,000, you might do both. You might, you know, get coaching, improve your margins, figure out where your business is going wrong, and then while you're doing that, you might improve car count and put a few more, you know, butts in seats so that I can make 20% on more people instead of 8%. Lucas Underwood: So here, here's my perspective, okay? So, so thing number one for me here Is that you're exactly right, and my reasoning's a little bit different. I would want to fix my net and I would want to fix my gross profit- Gross Cecil Bullard: profit ... Lucas Underwood: first before I started stacking more clients in the door, because now I'm gonna have more attrition because I'm changing my model midstream as opposed to narrowing down and polishing my model right now and getting my model right before I start presenting it to more people, right? Well, then- So, so I can set the expectation early. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And if you, if you do that, you'll have happier clients that will continue- Yeah ... to use you and come back. And- Lucas Underwood: I Cecil Bullard: agree ... this is a mo- mobile programming guy, so his client is probably not, uh, like the end user. This m- he may be working with more shops. I mean, there's- Yep definitely more information I'd need in order to- For sure ... evaluate him. And, and he is- These are the five Lucas Underwood: things ... he's working with a lot of shops. Right. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And, Lucas Underwood: and I think he's doing some mobile diag too. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: But so here- But you're- ... here's the next question to that though, right? Okay. Because I think there's a lot of mobile diag guys out there, there's a lot of mobile techs out there, and, and that does lead us to that next question is, hey- Like I, I'm not... If I do a DVI, how am I gonna upsell something? Because I'm really just coming out to do the diag and program the vehicle. Cecil Bullard: Well, in, if I'm working with other shops, I'm not doing a DVI. We're, we, we are just there to fill a, a place. That's why- Yeah ... I never liked, like, uh, being the alignment guy for the 10 shops around me. Um- Yeah ... because when the car comes in, I see things that- Lucas Underwood: Wasted Cecil Bullard: opportunities ... that the customer should be talking. We, w- we need, I, I feel like- Yeah ... oh, my God, why aren't they telling the customer that, you know, your upper control arm bushings are falling out of the car, and- Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: you c- I can't even align it, right? It, I, uh, uh, but it, I have different roles in, in different places. And, and if I am coming out to do programming and I'm the, I'm at the end user, the, you know, the client who owns the car, and I do a DVI, I might have an opportunity to sell additional stuff. But do I have the tools with me? You know, do I have the parts there? You know, do I have the equipment? Can I do it wherever I'm at, or do I have a place where I can take it and do it? I mean, there's a lot of additional questions and information, you know, depending on the model that you wanna build, right? I- And- Lucas Underwood: Yeah. I- ... Cecil Bullard: I don't think you should run three different models. I think you need to find the model that's gonna work the best for you, and that's the model that you wanna run, and you wanna run it as, a- as, as well as it can be run. Right? Lucas Underwood: I, I don't know anything about the mobile business, and I'm not gonna pretend to. But I, I think if it were me, right, what I would be doing is I'd be working with professional shops, and I'd say, "Hey, what I'll do, you guys get the cars you need programmed lined up. You get everything you need. In other words, do you have multiple cars that are gonna need programming? Do you have things? Try and get those all scheduled on a day for me. I'll come out, and I'll get the repairs made if you need me to do repairs. Whatever. I'll get diags done. But get me a day's worth of work," right? Cecil Bullard: Yeah, yeah, yeah, because I can't be moving around. I'm losing- Exactly ... my time, and time has to be billable no matter what. So either I gotta- Exactly ... charge... If, if I'm, if I'm working with five shops in a day- And I'm traveling around I have to shop Lucas Underwood: to shop, I spend as much Cecil Bullard: time and gas money Lucas Underwood: moving Cecil Bullard: Am I charging enough? Yeah, do, am I charging enough to cover the vehicle, the, the expenses- Yeah ... the, the gas, the rent, the, uh, excuse me, the utilities, the payment, whatever, uh- Yeah you know, or... Utilities, holy smokes. You know, I bet I'm, I'm thinking one thing, and it c- what comes out of my mouth is something else sometimes. Um- Lucas Underwood: We're used to it, Stace, so it's fine. Cecil Bullard: Yeah, it's all right. Guy's losing his mind. Um- You Lucas Underwood: never had one ... Cecil Bullard: and never had one in the first place. Um, but am I charging enough? And- Yeah ... and by the way, if I'm going to one shop and I'm gonna be there all day, that cost, uh, can be less for that shop than if I'm going to five shops. If I'm going to five shops- Yeah ... I have to cover all the traveling time and all the expenses that go with it. I've gotta charge more, otherwise I only make 8% or I only make 3% or whatever. I don't make my 20%, and I need my 20%. Lucas Underwood: I, I, I think, you know, to summarize basically where we've gone with this is, is like, the, the base numbers, the 55 and the 8%, are not fixed by increasing car count. Mm-hmm. So we fix those numbers first. Cecil Bullard: Yep. Lucas Underwood: And then, like, we, we get some of that dialed in, and we get the model dialed in, we get the efficiency dialed in, and then we work on marketing to bring more in if we need it at that point. But that's, I, I, that's how I would take it. Yeah. Cecil Bullard: So imagine you were, say, building houses, and you weren't charging enough, plus you maybe weren't building the house in a correct manner. All right? Yeah. So, and I, I build more houses, I create more liability- Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: that la- later I may have to go back and fix, repair, whatever. Um, I think you always wanna fix the model first. And, and there- Sure ... is a point, you know, hey, I'm a guy. I, I wanna start a business. I don't know what I don't know. Uh, I'm gonna get in there, and I'm gonna work my butt off and, and all of that, but there's a point in that where you have to say to yourself, "I want this to run well- Yeah and I want this, you know, I want... And so I need to know what it really takes to run it well, because I don't wanna work, you know, 12 hours a day, uh, in order to make the money I need to take care of my family or to- Yeah ... you know, take..." So yeah, I, I mean- A- and that, back to the... Okay, so I hope we answered that well enough, Kyle- Yeah, I think so and thank you so much. Thank you so much for that, that question. Um, and, uh, you know, back to this yes mentality, I told you I'm, I'm of both worlds, so I don't wanna tell a customer no, no matter what. Yeah. I, I really don't. But sometimes I have to say, "Yes, but..." Right? Lucas Underwood: Right. " Cecil Bullard: Yeah, we'd absolutely love to take care of that for you. However," right, "this is the situation." Uh, I always try to, um, to create some, uh, empathy, uh- Yeah ... around what's, what's going on in my world. Yeah. And, and by the way, if I get a guy that comes in who's really pissed off because at 4:00 I can't stop everything and change his oil- This is Lucas Underwood: somebody I want in my shop. Cecil Bullard: Yeah, and is that the guy I wanna work with? Yeah. And the answer is no. N- for me, the answer is- Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: uh, uh, unequivocally no. Lucas Underwood: So, so many of these shop owners, okay, and, and I'm gonna be really blunt here, and I'm not talking about the Institute. You blunt? Wait a minute. Yeah, I know, right? I'm not talking about the Institute when I say what I'm gonna say, okay? Cecil Bullard: Okay. Lucas Underwood: But so many of these shop owners, they go to a class somewhere, and somebody gives them these ideas of what to do. Now, listen, I, I've been this guy. I've been disconnected from the front counter. I've been disconnected from the base, and I go to a class, and this person recommends... And, and I'm gonna tell you, why do you think coaches have got such a bad name? There's, there is a coach that, that if you go on TikTok and search his name, it's technicians cussing him. Like, every TikTok video is people just cussing this guy out, right? And it, it's, it's that they have become so disconnected from what it's like to do the job. Now listen- I think what happens is, is that owner has been struggling for a long time. I've told you about this in my personal life before, that I spent so many years fighting and just climbing and trying to get things right and dealing with the stress and the upset client and all the things, that the minute somebody was willing to walk in that front door and take that pressure off of me, I'm like, "Here you go. It's yours. Take it. Do whatever you want with it. I don't care." Right? Cecil Bullard: Like- Well, would you... I mean, if you're gonna listen to someone- Yeah ... give you advice, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Um, uh, you know, uh, am I going to do some research on that person or that company- Lucas Underwood: Absolutely ... Cecil Bullard: and, and find out- Lucas Underwood: Absolutely ... Cecil Bullard: you know, you know, what their clients are, are saying and, and, you know, where did that person get his education? You know- For sure ... what, what's the, where's the- Lucas Underwood: What's Cecil Bullard: their experience? Uh, as they said in What Are the Bona Fides, right? You know- Yeah ... um, uh, in, in whatever movie- Right ... I can't remember the title to, but, um, i- or are, are you just, uh... At one of our events, and again, I'm gonna be brutal but not name their name. Lucas Underwood: Right. Cecil Bullard: You know, last year, um, chose speakers based on the title of their thing. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And, and they got a- Never Lucas Underwood: actually inspected the class or anything. Cecil Bullard: They got a lot of complaints. Uh, uh- Yeah ... and I heard a lot of feedback from people saying, "Wow, I, you know, in 20 minutes I walked out of that class." Yeah. And, and so do you wanna ha- I, I'm not saying we don't wanna have new people in the industry, 'cause we do. We wanna bring new people in, but do you wanna have people that, that have no bona fides, no, no qualifications? Just, they're just basically- Well- The, the thing I hate about the internet is they're able to say, "I'm the expert on this," and all of a sudden- Exactly everybody believes they're the expert on this- 100%. Lucas Underwood: 100% ... Cecil Bullard: even though they don't have the experience. They don't- Well- ... have the, the basic knowledge to really- E- ... be the expert. Lucas Underwood: Here's my beef though, right, is like they, they can come in and say whatever they want and, and it's, it's like a lot of what's being taught in the industry right now has consequences that, that we're not paying for yet. And I believe there were a lot of things taught over the past however many years that we're paying for the consequences right now, right? Like, there's a lot of things that we're paying for that were done years ago, and this is just how the industry works, and now we're paying the price for it. We don't have any techs, and all of these problems and all this stuff's coming up, right? And so when I... I guess what I was saying about, like, they're teaching these things, but they've never been on that side of the counter. And so it's like the shop owner comes back and says, "Hey guys, we're gonna start doing this." Well, let me ask you, Mr. Shop Owner, how many years has it been since you've sat on that front counter? How many years has it been since you were the one getting the butt chewing because you did something that was shady or was... Right? Like, have you disconnected yourself from the, the experience? Have you disconnected yourself from the consumer, the advisor, the technician? So I'm gonna- Because many of the guys we teach- Cecil Bullard: Yeah Lucas Underwood: were technicians, they were advisors. And- Cecil Bullard: Yeah, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna kick you in the teeth here. Lucas Underwood: Okay. I like it. Do it. Cecil Bullard: Just because you sat on the front c- on the front counter- Lucas Underwood: Mm-hmm ... Cecil Bullard: doesn't mean that you learned anything. Lucas Underwood: Of course. Cecil Bullard: So, so I think, um, like having a technician who becomes a service advisor, I would rather have a service advisor who was never a technician. Yeah, I- And I know a lot of shop owners are gonna go, "Man, you're crazy, Cecil." But there's bad habits that you learn as a tech- Yes, absolutely ... that are great habits when you're a tech, but when you're a salesperson, service advisor- They're terrible ... they're not good habits, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And, and so that's one thing. One thing is, okay, so you did it for 20 years. So what, right? And, and I know, you know, that's some of my bona fides. I used... You know, I- Yeah ... I did this. This is... I've, I've, I've run business, been successful, et cetera. I, I believe I've learned a lot of things that, that maybe many shop owners don't really know and understand. Here's, here's the other part of this. There are things that need to be taught to a tech that a service advisor should not be taught. Yeah. There are things that a service advisor needs to know that a tech shouldn't know, and, and there are things that a manager needs to know that are different than a service advisor, and there are things that an owner needs to know that are a, a lot different, and not all of those will, you will learn by being on the counter or by running the business, right? For Lucas Underwood: sure. Cecil Bullard: And, and listen- We... I've got guys that has, have been doing this for 30 years. I see them all the time. They come up and they're like, "Yes, I've been, I've had a shop for 30 years" and, and their business is worth $150,000 all in. And they, and they have no money. Right? A- and but they've been working at this for 30 years. Lucas Underwood: We've always done it this way. Yeah. But, but here's my point, though, is, is where I'm going with this is a little bit different. Where I'm going with this is it's been so long since you've sat on that front counter, and your policies and procedures are causing problems for the front counter that you don't even see. Cecil Bullard: I, I cannot use my policies and procedures when I was running a shop 15 years ago for a shop today. Yeah. Exactly. Lucas Underwood: Um- Cecil Bullard: Exactly ... and, and we don't teach that, you know? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: It might be a good place for you to start, because you can see what a policy and procedure should, should look like. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: But to take my policy, even my sche- the way I scheduled- Lucas Underwood: Yeah, Cecil Bullard: completely different um, uh, today, I think it's a bit different, right? I, i- it has to be modified. But- And that, another thing you want your coach to be is somewhat flexible on certain things, because- Yeah ... if they're not, they're gonna teach you what they learned 25 years ago, right? And- Well, Lucas Underwood: I, I mean, I guess my point in that, though, is let, let's, let's go back to the example given, okay? Of, hey, we're gonna have this situation where we bring this car in, and they've got a coupon, so we just wanna get the car in to convert it into a car that we can turn into a higher ARO, right? Now, I've got an advisor who's at the end of the day. Yeah. They're trying to make all of their telephone calls, they're trying to update all of their clients, they're trying to get everything cleaned up. Cecil Bullard: Once finished the 15 tickets that are going on- Exactly ... they get the money in the bank, et cetera. Lucas Underwood: Trying to make sure- Right ... the shop looks good, trying to get everybody wound down. They're, they're in the end of the day. They're phasing it out. They're getting ready to bookend the day. Plan tomorrow, right? Cecil Bullard: Right. Lucas Underwood: And now I've got a technician who's in the middle of a job, he's got an hour left, and I'm going back and I'm saying, "Hey, I need you to stop what you're doing. I need you to inspect this car. I need you to do an oil change right now. I need you to pull this thing in right now." And plus you're asking the advisor to go to that client, write an estimate for something simple, something that needs to be dealt with right now. It's a big deal to get the car to stay, and now I'm arranging a ride for this person, right? So the- Now you wanna talk about disgruntled, think about how that disrupts every single person in the shop's day. I've disrupted a porter, I've disrupted an advisor, I've disrupted a client, I've disrupted a technician. Cecil Bullard: I've disrupted my profits. Yes. I've disrupted my, my workflow. Lucas Underwood: Absolutely. Cecil Bullard: You know, one of the biggest, one of the biggest expenses in the automotive industry, the biggest cost and, and where we're losing the most money is that we do not have good workflow. Yeah. So the productivity issue, and we have a... Because of that we have a lot of techs complaining 'cause they can't get paid. If they're on flat rate and we don't have productivity, and it is the fault of the business because of our flow, um, then they got a, they got a legitimate complaint, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And, and what we're doing, I have a class called Stack the Deck, and what we're doing is stacking the deck against us. Yeah. We're not stacking it in our favor, Lucas Underwood: right? Right. Cecil Bullard: And so we're doing... By, by bringing that car in at the, at the last minute, we're doing everyone a disservice. Everybody. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: The, the client, the car, the service advisor, the tech that's gonna have to be pulled off, and, and we're creating kind of hatt- havoc and, and bad attitudes. Lucas Underwood: Chaos. Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And, and if we create, you know, bad attitude and havoc in our, and chaos in our business, then what are our results gonna be? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Okay? Exactly. And you can beat guys only so long. You know, you, you can- Yeah ... be a forceful manager and, and use the whip or the, you know, the, the prod or whatever only so long when guys say, "Uh, no more of this." It is not a long-term strategy for running a good business that's gonna last long-term and be profitable long-term. It's just not a good strategy. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Yeah. I think you're exactly right, and, and I think that that's where it comes back to me that, that if I build a workflow That is prioritizing profit over the car count, right? Because I, I don't believe in the, the high car count numbers. I- now let me tell you something. I, I had an epiphany a few years back because I was in three bays. You've seen the shop. Cecil Bullard: Mm-hmm. Lucas Underwood: I was in three bays, and it didn't take a lot- With Cecil Bullard: no ceiling. I mean, nine feet- Yeah ... or eight and a half feet or whatever. Yep. Yeah. Lucas Underwood: It didn't take that much to fill that shop, and it didn't take that much to pay that shop's bills. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: And then you've seen the new shop, and I, I, I'm, I don't even have to tell you, it takes a lot to pay its bills, right? Cecil Bullard: Yes, sir. Lucas Underwood: And so I have a whole new appreciation for people who try and drive car count. Like I get it. I get it. Cecil Bullard: I had a... In the, in the class, I had a, a guy come up and he's like, "Hey, I'm just, I'm just me, and, uh, what should I do now?" And I'm like, "Well, first of all, I, I don't know enough information." Yeah. "But second of all, when it's just you in one bay, you're gonna have the least expense, but you're gonna make the most money." It's gonna be hard because, you know, you gotta be the service advisor. You gotta, you know, when you've gotta answer the phone- Yeah ... you have Lucas Underwood: to stop what you're doing- Maybe you can stack Cecil Bullard: that bank account full like that ... blah, blah, blah. But you, you can. Yeah. I also have to... Kent made a comment that, um, it requires you to hold the stick. Somebody has to hold the stick. Yeah. And my answer is, "It doesn't require me to hold the stick. It requires the stick to be held- Yeah ... and held by somebody that, that knows what, what they're holding and knows what they need to do, right?" Yeah. Flying a plane, I don't wanna put my, you know, uh, 13-year-old grandson flying a plane. He's no experience. I put the stick in his hand, we're probably in trouble. You know, I want, I want a pilot, I want Dutch at the- Lucas Underwood: Exactly ... Cecil Bullard: you know, behind the wheel, right? Lucas Underwood: Well, you know, it's funny you say that because I was getting ready to bring him up. I, I was talking to him years ago. I was really frustrated about the way the shop was going, and he said, "Son, let me tell you something" He said, "When I worked for the airline," he said, "it does not matter who flies that plane or who does what on that plane." He said, "Because I was the left seat captain, that was my job." He said, "I could let anybody I wanted fly the plane. For God's sakes, I could let a passenger fly it." Cecil Bullard: Yeah, but he- "But I Lucas Underwood: could give them- Cecil Bullard: But he's responsible ultimately for what happens on that plane ... Lucas Underwood: I could give them all the authority in the world- Yeah to fly the plane, but ultimately it was still my responsibility." Good luck. And I said, "What does that have to do with me?" He said, "You're letting a bunch of bimbos fly your plane." Yeah. Cecil Bullard: People who don't know. Lucas Underwood: Like- Cecil Bullard: That's like, that's like- You know? It's like- ... going to coaching and, and going to classes- Yeah with people who, who have a nice internet presence who don't really have the, the experience or the knowledge to really help you out. Lucas Underwood: Yeah, 100%. Cecil Bullard: You know? And, and, and- I, I see these, some of these new coaches come on and they say things and I'm like, "Well, that sounds really pretty, but-" Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: you know, it i- i- it's not meaningful or impactful. It just sounds pretty. Lucas Underwood: Right. Okay, we've got a question here. Um, Steve from Wasp Automotive: "My question is how do you decide when adding capacity, another tech, actually helps profit versus creating more chaos?" Been there, done that. It's all in the numbers. It's all in your financials. Ha- I, what do you say, Cecil? What Cecil Bullard: do you- I think, um, I think you look at your business and you say to yourself, uh, you know, like, "I've got three techs. I have one service advisor. I'm probably... My flow is now starting to get affected because one service advisor, three techs." Lucas Underwood: That's Cecil Bullard: for sure. Uh, and 11, 12 cars a day, maybe 15 if you're running a lower ARO model, and that service advisor can't talk to all those people, answer all those phones, deal with everything that's happening and make that happen. So you say to yourself- Yeah ... "Okay, um, I'm gonna add a fourth, uh, uh, tech," before you really have your service advisor stuff really set up. So, you know, I'm, if I'm adding a fourth tech, I'm, I'm certainly probably at that point adding a second service advisor. And if you're, if you're willing, if you have your systems and processes down and your shop is efficient, the, if you have a, a decent ARO, if you, if you know your inspection process and your sales process is good, then let's add a tech. But if you're, if you're adding a tech because you feel like we're, we're stacked too deep and I can't get the work out, then y- y- Yeah ... it's not the tech you need, it's the process you need. Lucas Underwood: So- Right? ... w- what I do in my shop, okay, let me give you a rundown of how I do my daily planning, my weekly planning. Yeah. Is I'm monitoring how much work we have in the shop at any given time. So I know how many hours and I know how many dollars I have in the shop, and I'm saying, "Okay, I know what my typical sales per build hour are, and does that line up with the financial model we've put in place for the shop?" And so if I'm consistently at that number, I can take my hours and I can say, my technicians should be able to turn eight hours a day. There's gonna be days they're a little bit less, there's gonna be days they're a little bit more, but if I have X number of hours and it gives me a runway, because I view this like my runway, right? Like, how far can I go? And I run this shop somewhere between five and seven days out, is, is typically where it falls, right? Yeah. I wanna have between new appointments coming in, right, because I know my average hours per repair order, new appointments coming in versus the work that I have here right now. How much work would that give me, right? And a lot of guys come back and say, "How could you judge what a new appointment's gonna be?" Because it's my average hours per repair order. That's what we always run. It doesn't go up and down hours. It goes up and down five, 10, 15 minutes. It goes up, down .1, .2. It's not a huge swing. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: And so now I'm looking at the shop and I'm saying, "Okay- If that is the case and I have this much work and I'm billing this much, is the work getting done? No, it's not. Okay, well now I have an efficiency problem in the shop. Cecil Bullard: Maybe. Maybe- Okay, the work... Go ahead. Maybe it's an efficiency problem in the shop. Maybe it's a, I have too many clients and I need another tech, right? So- Lucas Underwood: Well, I guess, I guess what I'm saying though is if, if I'm in that situation, right? So if I've got that number and my number is, is each tech should be able to do eight hours a day, and I am not moving that number through the shop, and I go and I look and I find out, hey, I got four hours per day per tech, that's an efficiency problem. And by the way, that's a- Adding another tech Cecil Bullard: will not fix that problem don't hire another tech. Yeah, because now you're gonna have- Unless you- Now you're gonna have five guys doing three hours- Doing four hours a day ... or whatever. So yeah. And, and all the marketing, all the money you've spent on that and everything else- Yep ... is just gonna go by the Lucas Underwood: wayside. 100%. So- But I'm gonna maximize what I have, I guess is my point. I'm, I'm, I, it, it's ran by the numbers. There's a formula. I Cecil Bullard: think, I think if you're smart, you're always maximizing what you have. And so- Yeah ... um, you know, you're, the question that I ask every day is, is why not, right? W- why- Yeah ... aren't we? Why, why, why isn't the institute growing faster? Why are we not, uh, signing up more people? Why are we, you know, whatever, whatever it is. Because the answer to that question is the answer I need to, in order to really move my head- Yeah ... right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Sure. And, and so if you're, if you're saying, you know, I've got, um, six hours of productivity out of my s- out of my techs- And now I'm gonna hire another tech because I have too many cars. Well, m- maybe your price isn't high enough to, you know- Yeah ... maybe your price needs to be a little higher. Uh, so th- that's a way that you might manage car count. So we're booked three weeks out. Well, booked three weeks out is, is not okay, and what, what often happens is I, I have customers come in today, and they were scheduled for whatever, and then we found $4,000 worth of stuff they need, and they wanna buy it- Get bumped I said, "I can't, I can't do it today." Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: So they get bumped a week and a half out, two weeks out. And then the other problem is if I'm, if I'm scheduling that way, and, and I have new people that are, that I'm... They don't know who I am. Yeah. So they're calling for a first time. I need to get those people in either today or tomorrow. Yeah. I cannot- If you wanna retain that ... schedule those people. Yeah. Otherwise, that money I spent is wasted money. Yeah. And, and so, you know, there, again, there's these balancing and tipping points in your business that if you really understand the business and you're watching the numbers as, as Ken says, you know, if you know where you're going and you're, you know, you got s- your hand on the stick, and you got the data that you need- Yeah then all of a sudden, I'm making better decisions, and so I know what to do when I need to do it. And then- For sure. Lucas Underwood: Absolutely ... I Cecil Bullard: think, I think everybody should have mentors or coaches. Uh, y- you know, mentors, uh, uh, many of... Some of those are paid because you, that's what you hired them for. Yeah. And they might be your coach, and some of those are not. I mean, you know, I'll, I'll call you occasionally for something and say, "Hey, Lucas, what do you think about this?" Because- For sure ... frankly, I look at you in s- some areas as that guy where I can call you and get some good information. Right. Um, and, a- a- I just think we have so many people in our industry that they just don't know enough about the business and how- Yeah the business runs to make the best decisions, and so they keep running into the wall. Lucas Underwood: They were really good at fixing cars, and they were really good at maybe selling service. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: But they weren't good at running the business that fixes cars and sells service. Cecil Bullard: Well, Lucas Underwood: how many- There's a d- there's a difference. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And then, you know, how, how about how do I manage these people? I mean, I can't tell you how many times I've heard, "Well, my guys won't do good inspections," or, "They won't take-" "... 20 pictures of the car," or whatever. Ah. And, and, and I'm, I'm like, part of me is, is flabbergasted, right? Yeah. Part of me is like, how, how do you have people that won't do what you need them to do, and you keep writing them a check every, every week- Yeah right, or every two weeks? And, and then part of me is, is angry, like- Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: are you, are you really that dumb that you, you can't figure this out, and, and manage people, and make sure that you're getting, you know, what you need out of your staff? And, and so I, the... I'm always two people in my head, you know? I'm just always. But they keep doing the same thing over and over. Yeah. And they keep thinking they're gonna get different results. Lucas Underwood: You know- Cecil Bullard: It's insanity ... Lucas Underwood: here, here's what stands out to me, because you know I've been working at the other end dealing with- Mm-hmm ... with much younger employees, right? Cecil Bullard: Yep. Lucas Underwood: And I had one a while back come up to me and said, "I really appreciate you holding me accountable." And I said, "What are you talking about?" And they said, "Nobody has ever said to me, 'Why didn't you accomplish this thing?'" And they just acted like I was gonna be upset or was gonna be mad if somebody came and said, "What about?" And they said, "The problem was is I never knew if I was winning or losing. And so I need somebody to tell me I'm doing good or I'm not doing good- Yeah so I understand where I need to go, but that's not happening anywhere else I've been." And see- Cecil Bullard: Well, it doesn't... In most places it does not happen, my friend. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And so- Lucas Underwood: Exactly ... Cecil Bullard: you know, we, we don't have goals. I'll, I'll go into a shop and say, "Well, what are your goals for your techs? How do they win," right? "Well, uh, they do a lot of work and they don't have any comebacks." Well, first of all, not having any comebacks is ridiculous because you can't work on cars without having a comeback. Lucas Underwood: You figure that Cecil Bullard: one out, buddy. Second of all, what's a lot? What's a lot of work, right? I mean- Yeah ... a lot of work is, is 10 hours a day. I mean- Yeah ... uh, people need... If you hold people accountable, if they understand, if you're fair, meaning- Yeah ... they know what their target is, they know what they have to do, and then you hold them accountable, they're very happy. They're happier than they can ever be. Yeah. It's the people that don't have any direction, that don't know if they're winning, you know, every two years, every three years they move to another shop hoping that they can find that thing that they don't have, and the thing that they don't have is goals, targets, accountability, and winning. I mean, those are the things you absolutely have to have to be a happy human being, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: If not, it wears at you and it wears at you until what you do is you go online and you just bitch, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And, and so we got a lot of online complaining going on. Lucas Underwood: Yep. Cecil Bullard: Um- Lucas Underwood: The, the quickest way to a depressing life is unmet expectations. Yeah. And the only human being capable of setting your expectations is you. Is Cecil Bullard: that right? Well, and that's the other thing I think we all... You know, I, I always say, um, managers need to manage, meaning- Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: you know, you... When I was a tech, I kept track of every hour I billed, okay? Now, the reason I was keeping track of every hour I billed was not because I d- I thought my company was gonna not pay me for it. The reason I kept track of every hour was because every day was a competition against yesterday. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: So if I did seven hours yesterday, today I wanna do eight. And, you know, I, I, I'm competing against myself. In, in a way, part of my life has been managing myself because if somebody else- Yeah ... doesn't create the expectations for me, I create the expectations. Lucas Underwood: Amen. Cecil Bullard: Because I need the- The dopamine or whatever that comes from being successful. Lucas Underwood: Amen, Cecil Bullard: buddy. Uh, if not, at the end of the day, you watch me. I'm sitting watching TV doing this because- That's it ... I wasn't successful today, right? I di- I didn't- Yeah ... make anything happen. Lucas Underwood: Kent says, "Complaining can make the problem feel bigger it is to the point it feels insurmountable." Um, I- Cecil Bullard: Yeah, it happens all, all, all the time in this, in this industry ... Lucas Underwood: somebody told me one time that human beings can be in love with their problems. They can make their problems their identity, and so I think that Cecil Bullard: that's- Well, think, think about this. As a technician, I'm a problem solver. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Right? And problems are brought to me all day long, but all of a sudden- Yeah I become a salesperson or I become a manager, sol- creating problems so that I have problems to solve, right? Lucas Underwood: Amen. Cecil Bullard: And, you know, don't get me wrong, you'll... A- as a salesperson you'll have plenty of problems to solve. As a manager you'll have ple- plenty of problems to solve, but we have a lot of people in, in the industry that are creating their own nightmares- Lucas Underwood: Yes Cecil Bullard: and then they're living in them, and then they're complaining about them. Yeah. And, and, and my mind is like, "Okay, fix it." Lucas Underwood: Right? Exactly. Exactly. Cecil Bullard: It might not be easy. It might not be quick, but fix it. Stop doing what you're doing today. Start learning how to do something just a little bit different and, and because you keep going the same way, you keep getting the same thing. Lucas Underwood: That's exactly right. If you continue to do the same thing and expect different results, that is the definition- Is Cecil Bullard: insanity ... of Lucas Underwood: insanity. Cecil Bullard: Yes, sir. Lucas Underwood: Cecil, thank you for being here today. Cecil Bullard: Yes, sir. Well, thank you. I love these things. And- Yes, sir ... uh, thank you for those of you that participated and, uh, and asked questions, and we'll be back again soon I'm sure. Lucas Underwood: That's it. Well, I guess another month and we'll be back Cecil Bullard: here. Another month, and we'll make your head Lucas Underwood: hurt one more time. Another AMA. Yeah. Waiting to hear y'all's questions. Cecil, see you next time, buddy. Cecil Bullard: Love you, brother. Lucas Underwood: Love you, brother.

Ep 169: How They Doubled Revenue With Fewer People with Brian Moak

Ep 109 - Becca & Tony Zanders | The Truth About Selling Your Auto Repair Shop

Tekmetric transformed my shop. Plain and simple. Want that for yours? Touch HERETurnkey Marketing takes the stress of doing something I'm not good at off my plate. And gives it to someone who is. Click HERE for more.47 Consultants brings your shop’s story to life on social media, helping Carfix engage 60,000 people in Raleigh in just a few weeks. See what 47 Consultants can do for your shop, and tell them Big Daddy Mike sent you!Elite Worldwide's Ignite 2027 is coming up in February and NOW is the time to sign up. It's happening in Vegas February 4-6 and it will be the best 3 days of your shops year when you attend. Save $100 when you use code CONFESSIONS HEREWhen I used the maintenance tool for the fist time with Detect Auto, my mind was blown. My advisors had the same reaction - and then SO MUCH MORE TIME. Learn more about Detect Auto and book a free demo now!In this episode, Mike Allen sits down with Tony and Becca Zanders to discuss the realities of selling an auto repair shop and what it takes to leave behind more than just a paycheck. They share the story of building Heritage Auto Repair from the ground up before selling it to a longtime employee, explaining why preserving their legacy mattered more than chasing the highest offer. The conversation explores private equity, succession planning, burnout, and the emotional challenges many owners face after selling their business. Tony and Becca also offer practical advice for increasing your shop's value, building systems that outlast you, and creating an exit strategy that aligns with your long-term goals.Timestamps:00:00 Legacy vs. Payday: The Truth About Selling Your Shop 01:00 Meet Tony & Becca Zanders: Building Heritage Auto Repair Together 04:41 From Backyard Garage to One of Idaho's Top Repair Shops 07:00 Selling to an Employee Instead of the Highest Bidder 08:20 Private Equity, High Multiples & Internal Buyouts 10:42 Questions Every Shop Owner Should Ask Before Selling 12:14 Don't Wait Until Burnout: The Three Keys to a Healthy Exit 16:07 Defining Your "Why" Before You Sell 17:44 Choosing the Right Successor and Passing the Baton 21:14 The Emotional Reality of Staying On After the Sale 23:24 Losing Your Identity After Selling Your Business 24:18 Empowering Employees to Increase Shop Value 27:13 The D6 Elements: Building a Sale-Ready Business 35:16 How to Start Planning Your Exit—Even If You're Late 37:03 The Biggest Mistakes That Destroy Shop Value 39:40 Why Strong Processes Matter—Even After the Sale 44:02 Vegas Food Recommendations & Planning for AAPEX

AutoShop Ministries Episode 3 - From Technician to CEO: Pace, Purpose, and Long-Term Success

Joe Adams and Chaplain Devontae Tidwell discuss why endurance beats speed in leadership and business. Using scripture & practical examples, they explain how steady, sustainable effort builds lasting success. They challenge listeners to slow down, set a sustainable pace, and ask whether today’s choices will still be good eight years from now—emphasizing discipline, patience, and long-term planning.