How Honest Shops Win Customers for Life with Brian DiCesare

0:03And it goes back to our reputation in the industry. There's a lack of trust because every time the car comes in, it's $2,000. It's $2,000. That's, you know, that's why we write everything up. Here's everything, right? I don't care if it's $8,000, but these are the couple of things you need. But just, just be aware that you're going to have this coming down the pipe that way.

0:27They know in the back of their mind that, hey, I got some maintenance I gotta do. If everybody did the same thing, if we were, you know, uniform with that, a lot of that trust could change a lot of things in our industry. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to another exciting episode of the Jada Mechanic Podcast. It's another sunny Sunday night here in Ontario.

0:54Kingston, Canada. And, uh, not a Canadian tonight, guys. It's been an all-American weekend. So, you know, I'm trying to get us up to that 51st state that everybody thinks I should be. Um, but I got a friend of mine from Pennsylvania that I met at Tools. Um, and he kind of reached out to me. We, we hit it off pretty good at Tools.

1:13We had a lot of great conversation. And he's like, I want to be on the podcast. And I want to, you know, I've got some difference of opinions and stuff that he wanted to share. So I'm with Brian DeCesar tonight. Brian, how's it going, bro? Doing good, man. It's an honor to be on the podcast. A little bit out of my element, to be honest with you, but you know, it's how we're gonna go about, you know, bringing some change into this awesome industry, you know, that I've loved my entire life.

1:40Yeah, you showed me now before we got on, you showed me a picture with him and his father, um, and standing next to— what's— what were you guys standing next to? Was that a Camaro? Yeah, it was, uh, I believe it was a Mustang. Okay. Yeah, it was a little Mustang. So that's little Mr. DeCesar right there. And, you know, my father back in the '80s on a Polaroid.

2:02So, yeah, you know, was your dad a wrench? Was he a tech? Yeah, well, he was a body guy, you know. Um, he was, he was an awesome body guy. Uh, you know, he, um, He, him and my godfather started a shop in Jersey and, um, you know, there was a difference of opinion and then he kind of like bounced around, um, after that.

2:25But, you know, from my earliest memories, I was in the shop. That's, that was life, you know. Um, get dropped off, be with dad all day in white pants, and my mom would freak out because I'd come home filthy and he'd be like, you sent him to the shop in white pants. What'd you think would happen? You know. Right? Yeah, because it's the same thing— primer dust and body filler.

2:44And yeah, I grew up in that too. That was my dad, right? And I joke all the time, like, you know, he was forever working in the garage next to the house, 8, 9, 10 o'clock at night, weekends, you know, always, always doing side work, always putting together, you know, put lots of Mustangs together. Because I don't know if they do it like— you're in Pennsylvania, but I don't know, up here those strut towers on the Mustangs would rot right out.

3:09Like, and it didn't matter, right? From the first gen, like I call them, like I can remember him doing '65s and '66s all the way up to like, you know, the '70s stuff. And it always seemed like everybody just thought it was a strut tower and it ended up being like part of the firewall and, you know, the fucking— what we'd call the dog leg.

3:28And like, it was just— they were just rotten. Yeah, we have a big problem with rust here too, and it's, it's from the, the treatment on the roads before it snows. You know, I mean, those are most of the memories with him, too. You know, it was either, you know, in the shop or at the, at the Veterans Stadium for the Phillies.

3:44You know, it was baseball or cars, one or the other, you know. So and he was, he was an auto body guy. How did you decide? Because like I tell everybody, like, I was bored of bodywork. Like, I'd sanded on so many cars by the time I was 12, you know, and been around it that it didn't, it didn't hold any interest in me at all.

4:04I'm like you. I knew my dad was good at what he did. But I didn't pay it any attention, right? Like, I was just like, you know, wow, you know, last there was a hole there and now there's a perfectly, you know, hand-fabbed repair panel and it's straight and smooth and, you know, all that stuff. I was just all about how fast did the freaking things go.

4:24Yeah. And, you know, I didn't want to do— well, you know, as a kid, you know, I got tired of bodywork too, you know, the sanding and the dirt. And it's just not something that I wanted to do. You know, and as a teen, like kind of rebelled a little bit. I actually, that one of the high schools that I went to was a trade school and I went for welding.

4:44Okay. And learned how to use a plasma cutter and stick weld and MIG weld and stuff like that. And looking back on it, like having that in my tool belt, you know, in this industry has been very useful over the years. And, um, it's funny cuz I'm sitting here thinking about him and he had this like '86 IROC 5-speed. I love that.

5:02I loved being in the back of that car. And I remember we pulled into this 7-Eleven one time and it wouldn't start. And, you know, he's pushing it down the road and then hopping back in and dumping the clutch. You know, those are the memories that I have, you know, as a kid. And then, you know, fast forward into now, like, I got into this because, you know, I was always good with my hands.

5:29You know, I had built go-karts in the shop with him. I have pictures of that somewhere too. And, you know, as a teen riding bikes, I would strip the entire bike down, change colors, you know, do this, do that. You know, I was always one of the ones in the family, hey, the lawnmower won't start or this won't, you know. So always really good with my hands, you know.

5:53In the back of my mind, I kind of always knew I was going to be a mechanic because when people would ask me, you know, I— that's what I'm going to do. Um, but, you know, my path into the industry, you know, wasn't normal. Like, when I got out of high school, I went into sales, you know. Okay. I was doing— I was, uh, it was, it was a scam, right?

6:14But it was the white, the white van scam where, hey, I got extra speakers on my truck. There were actually speakers I was a young kid. I didn't know when these guys were making $200, $300 a day back in, you know, the early 2000s. And I did that for about a year and found out that I was good at talking to people.

6:33You know, I'm very personable. And I ended up going to a trade school in Bristol. It's Penco Tech. It's still around today. I think they're celebrating like 100 years being open. So I went and got an associate's degree in specialized technology. So, you know, you had fundamentals and engines and everything like that, but I had already had that background, you know what I mean?

6:59So like getting into fundamentals, like I knew some of the stuff that they were teaching and I was just getting some of the theory of operation behind it, you know, like I knew how things worked, but then I knew why they worked, you know? And then I had this, this, uh, engine teacher, Mr. Hamza, man, and he was, he was unbelievable. Like I couldn't remember the 4-stroke cycle and it was, he just broke it down, suck, wheeze, pop, blow, you know?

7:24And like that's gotten me out of so many jams over the years. Just remember, all right, well this isn't, all right, well, all right, here we go. That we're missing something, you know? You have fuel, you have spark, you have compression. All right. And you know, during the schooling, I went and worked, So my dad and my godfather had started this shop and my dad ended up going away, like going and doing his own thing.

7:52And my godfather owns this property and the front is a body shop and then behind it are a bunch of shops. So I went to him and I'm like, hey, like I'm in school. You told me when I went to school to come back and that you would help me, you know, get in somewhere. So he's like, go talk to Jamie, which was one of the guys that ran it, 4-bay shop behind him.

8:11Okay. And, uh, he specialized in Subarus. He, he had worked at a Subaru dealership for like 20, 25 years and then decided to go out on his own and then took a lot of customers, you know, independent. Yeah. And, um, you know, one of the things that we were talking about is I watch pretty much all your podcasts. I spent some time today just watching them just, just to hear what people were talking about and Um, it's a lot of dealer guys, you know?

8:42Um, and I'm not picking, you know what I mean? Like, I've been independent my entire career. You know, I've never worked at a dealer or a chain or anything like that. And, um, so I go to work for Jamie and, um, you know, I start out sweeping floors, you know, organizing, learning where things are, changing oil here and there, tires, you know, a lot of tires in the beginning.

9:03Yeah. Um, and I worked with this guy named Bob and he can have an engine, one of those Subaru 2.5s out in like 40 minutes. Yeah. Like, you know, I've pulled engines over, you know, prior to this and just watching him, I'm like, it's just blown away. You know what I mean? And, um, I don't know how many Subaru engines you've ever done, but they like to, to freeze together right there at the bell housing.

9:31And, um, yeah, you know, learning some tricks on how to separate them and, you know, putting a little anti-seize, you know, on the guide pins and such. And, you know, just getting— starting to get the flow of a shop as an adult, you know. Um, so I end up graduating from Penco Tech in like 2008. I want to say, or 2009. And, uh, in Pennsylvania we have, uh, yearly emissions and safety.

10:03Okay. So it's, you know, '96 and newer, it's an OBD2. You plug into the car, you test the gas cap. That's the emission side. And then the safety side is, is anything falling off? Are the brakes metal to metal? Is the windshield cracked? You know, just a lot of safety stuff. And, um, Jamie was like, look, I don't have enough work here for you, you know, and Bob, you know.

10:29So I kind of floated around a little bit, you know. Um, I had a membership to a junkyard, so I would go and pull parts. And, you know, at this time I'm like 21, 22, so I'm doing a lot of work on the street. And, um, one of the things I was taught, you know, early on was like, if you can learn to work on jack stands, you can do it in the air.

10:51Your leverage points are different, your techniques have to be different, your process has to be different. And, um, you know, like any young tech, the money's not good and you're, you're, you're paying for tooling. Um, you know, on top of that, you know, I'm paying $30 grand to go to school, so I have that bill, you know. And, um, so I'm just doing my thing on the street, you know, $40 for a pad slap, no rotors, you know, just doing young stuff for young friends.

11:21You know, looking back at it, I did what I had to do to survive. And, you know, those are things that I wouldn't do today. You know what I mean? Just for safety reasons. Yeah. When you, when you talked about, like you kind of said, and we talked about this before, how it's a lot of dealer guys, I sometimes have to remind people that like a lot of the really angry people that contact me about wanting to be on and be heard, they work at dealers.

11:46Yeah, that's true. And that's so— it's like, and I don't know if, like, I want to think that the podcast has got traction really good in both, you know, independent side of people and dealers. But for some reason, man, like, I get so many more people reaching out to me that have been like either left the dealer or in it and hate it or like bounced around and finally landed in a good one and they want to share like it, but they've got a lot of negative to say.

12:14So I mean, sometimes I feel, Brian, like it's like everything I'm saying is like being heard, but it's like in the, in the circles that we run in, which is more like ASOG and changing, and you know, we have the aftermarket side of things, right? Like you, where you grew up, and they're hearing these conversations, but they're hearing all these grumpy people from the dealers, and they're going— their simple answer is like, well, just leave the dealerships.

12:40Yeah, it's tough. Yeah, it's a tough transition, and it's tough to leave anywhere where you're— like I say this, you know, the devil you know, right? So you're in some place and it's like you're kind of— you're, you're surviving, you know, you're getting some flow. It has its ups and downs, every job does. To turn around and just go like that and go no more Ben, I did it and it's tough.

13:05It's really tough. It is really hard to decide. The first time I took a job that wasn't a dealer job, I was shit and tacks. I was so nervous. Yeah. And it's because you never know what you're going to get on a daily basis. And listen, even in the independent world, like part of my, what we're, you know, eventually my story, just how many times I've been screwed.

13:29You know what I mean? It's the same. You know what I mean? Like the dealer politics are different from a lot of guys that I've talked to, you know, whether it be your podcast or just guys that I know in the industry locally. You know, there is change coming. There is change happening, but it's, there's a, I feel like the technology has to keep growing in order for some of these hole-in-the-wall places to finally fall off.

13:54To where, yeah, all the better shops can absorb a lot of that clientele, you know what I mean? And a lot of those technicians can find places where it's good culture and it's a good living and, you know, you don't mind getting, getting up and going to work every day. Yeah. Now when you say like you were screwed, how, how were you screwed?

14:16Just like in the sense of, so short times or? Not so. I worked at, um, 2 different shops for a period of 4 years. Um, I, I get to this shop and there's, there's one tech in there and, you know, they pay me very well. You know, um, I'm there 2 months and the service writer quit. New service writer comes in. He's a good dude.

14:42They fire the other tech and they're like, we're gonna get you somebody. We're gonna find someone. 6 months go by, you know, of me in this 3-bay shop by myself, 10 to 14 cars a day. Not everything's getting finished. I'm making a killing. Yeah, but I am miserable. I don't want to get up. I don't want to go to work. My body hurts.

15:06I'm angry at everyone. I don't want to— you just— life's like, money's one thing, but At what point do you enjoy life? You know what I mean? And 5 days a week or 6 days a week? 5 days. Yeah, 5 days a week, man. And, you know, I had to— I always say, like, one of the guys I work with, I'm like, why do I got to lose my temper for things to change?

15:28You know, I'll warn you and say, hey, we should probably do this, or why don't we do things like this? And then when I lose my temper, it's like, whoa, whoa, calm down. All right. All right. Well, We'll get somebody. I'm like, I'm going on vacation. Yeah, who's gonna be here? Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, yeah. So in the midst of me being there, they bring in this kid, and, um, he doesn't really know much.

15:55He had went to a trade school, you know, not a large set of tools, and I try to bring him under my wing. Um, I'm a big torque spec guy, so, you know, torque sticks on the impact gun, and then when it hits the ground double-check them, you know what I mean? And, uh, his first 2 weeks there, he left 6 wheels loose, you know?

16:15Um, I had him do a wheel bearing job for me, um, and I was like doing one thing and I'm coming over and I'm checking and I'm like, all right, make sure you tighten these bolts. And then I got pulled away and he put the wheel on the car and the next thing I know, the thing's coming back on the tow truck, you know?

16:32So that was the help that I was getting. So in the midst of all that, I'm like, I gotta find— I can't do this anymore. Like, mentally, I'm burned out. Like, I'm physically worn out. My mentality's not good. You know, so I start looking for a place on Indeed. And, you know, I had somebody drive like 45 minutes to meet me at a local restaurant.

16:58And they're like, you know, we want to bring you in to be our foreman. So I had said that I had never worked for a chain. Like Mavis or any of that stuff. This is like a small independent chain. They have like, I think they have like 7 shops now. Okay. And, um, they're based out of Delaware. They drive up and they're like, hey, listen, we all opened a store in Delaware County, you know, we want you to come be the guy over there, you know, we'll pay you whatever, you know.

17:27And I'm like, I'll think about it, you know. So Um, I go back to work after this vacation, after meeting with these guys, and, um, they fire the kid, my helper. So you're right back to— right back to being by myself. And I'm like, fuck this, I'm done. You know, I told my service writer, I'm like, Friday's my last day. I don't think he told the owners.

17:56I pull up that Friday with my truck and the trailer and I'm loading my toolbox onto the trailer and he's like, I'm like, I fucking told you I'm out. Well, whoa. I'm like, I can't do this by myself anymore. Like, it's too much. I can't plug tires and do these timing chains on this Chevy Traverse. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's, I can't.

18:18I remember the one day I had a Chevy Traverse subframe out, you know, it's getting timing chains. And then I got a water pump on a Ford. You know, that's a timing cover too. And it's like, hey, can you plug this tire real quick? Like, bro, I got like $7,000 worth of work sitting in these 2 bays. Like, you plug it, you know what I mean?

18:37So, you know, I load up and it was a minor inconvenience for 2 weeks. And, you know, I get to their Delaware store and they're like, man, you're everything you said. Because, you know, in our industry, we get a lot of people, I can do this, I can do that. And, you know, you get guys and they, They can't, you know. And, um, so they put me through this little— they told me I was going to be in Delaware for 2 weeks.

19:01I was there for 6 days, you know. So they moved me to the store that they were gonna— it was gonna be mine. So I get there and, you know, there's what, 1, 2— there was 4. There was 2 service writers and 3 techs. And, um, the manager was a degenerate gambler. Um, the one tech used to be a security guard, so he was like a year in doing tires and, you know, he had potential.

19:31And then there was another guy that was just, just a butcher, man. And, um, so for 3 months, you know, I got that place turned around. We got into the black and then, um, they ended up firing the one service writer for reasons I have no idea. And they brought this other guy in and He was, he's awesome. I have, I couldn't say a bad word about him.

19:51And, um, they ended up firing the manager that was there. So before that, they just turned the place over. So, uh, the manager that they brought in, he was awesome. They ended up letting the other 2 guys go. So now I'm in a 7-bay shop by myself. And I'm like, you know, the, uh, general manager and the owner's brother-in-law come in and they're like, look, it's only going to be for 4 weeks.

20:20We're going to bring people in. And I believe them, Jeff. When I tell you I believed them, they have other stores. Like, I'm like, you know, I'm like, I believe you. They had this floating tech who I'm still friends with today. And, um, he would fill in at the other locations, you know, when people were on vacation or called out sick, or if they, you know, were Their workload was heavy.

20:44So he was there. So, but I'm 7 bays, you know what I mean? And I'm getting all the cars that none of the other shops can fix. You know what I mean? Locally, you know, I'm tracing down broken wires on Hondas and, you know, cars that have had work done and it's, they're still not right. I remember, I'll never forget this, this CR-V.

21:07This lady comes in with this CR-V. She's been chasing this. It was like a 20, A '15, 2016 Honda CR-V. Had probably at the time like 140,000 miles on it. Okay. She comes in, she's like, I had my car at this other shop. You know, they can't figure out what's wrong with the AC and I got an oil leak and this smell.

21:27I'm gonna tell you this story because I ended up working at that other shop and she came to that place to get gas and rec— she recognized me. Right. And she's like, you fixed my car. I'm like, yeah, well I'm here now. So, So she left them and came back to the shop that she had left initially. But, you know, it's, it's me and the, the floating tech and I got a shop full of cars and I'm dying.

21:50It ended up being a, uh, clogged proportioning valve, right? Um, the, it would just spike pressure and the, the compressor would kick off and then vent the atmosphere. Mm-hmm. So end up selling that and then she approved the timing cover and, um, I'm like, I'm going on vacation, like, and, and so is the floating tech, like, at this point, you know, so they fired everybody in February.

22:16It's June. All right. Yourself. By myself with this guy that's like tires. Like he's looking, he's helping me set lifts up. He's kind of helping me do multi-points, like digital vehicle inspections. And that's it. All the other work's getting done by me, and I'm getting to that point. I could literally feel it in myself at this point. I had been with them over about a year.

22:43It was about a year because I, I got there in July the year previously. So here I am again, 5 months by myself. Like, what the fuck? Like, how did— why does this keep happening? It's almost like it was me. Like, why does— why does it keep happening to me? Like, I'm not— am I that unique? You know You know what I mean?

23:03I— so I gotta ask because it'll kind of— if you're paid on straight commission, like, that's good if you're getting that much work, right? Yeah, that's what we think, or we're taught to think in this industry. But I was the same way. Like, what I mean, it was so funny when I was straight time, and a lot of us are like this, you complain when there's too much work and you complain when there's no work.

23:26Yep. What I mean, and So you're trying to— and people go, well, what's wrong with it? Look at all the money you're making. It's the pressure of all these deadlines, of trying to— the logistics of whose car, Mrs. Smith goes today or Mrs. Smith goes tomorrow. It's all that that weighs on you too when you're by yourself. I'm not by myself at my shop, but I'm by myself every Friday.

23:51My coworker, he does 4 days a week. And every Friday he's off for medical stuff. So like, and you'll see it, it's the end of the week, cars start getting sold, stuff starts piling up. And every Friday for me now almost is like I'm slammed. Yeah, I'm, I'm— or it's— and you know, I say slammed like I get out of there at 4 o'clock, but like, you know, I'll come in on Monday and we've sold 3 cars over the weekend.

24:19And then it's like, depending on if how long ago I might have worked on that, all of a sudden, because every salesman promises them Like, uh, you know, we sold it on Saturday, it should be ready to go by Wednesday. And all of a sudden you're like, uh, so we gotta order tires, we gotta order parts, we gotta like— this one's got an AC problem.

24:40Like all this stuff that you wrote down, nobody did anything about because they never fixed this crap until it's like the paperwork is done. Then we're not spending our money, we're spending theirs, right? Yep. And I— it's that workload of the deadline is the stressor that I think a lot of us in this industry don't necessarily give enough weight to what the— what it is as a pressure, right?

25:08The flat rate thing of am I going to make any money or not is one, but it's that deadline thing of when you're— when you're feast or famine that's driving you crazy too. So, so you've been there 4 months and it's almost like you by yourself again with 7 bays. Yep. Yeah. So what do they keep telling you when you go to them and go like, I need somebody, I need somebody?

25:27So not only— so they are bringing people in for interviews. So during the course of the day, I'm getting pulled off of what I'm doing to go sit in on these interviews now. And at this point, I'm like, just give me somebody. Yeah. You know what I mean? So fast forward again, I'm going on vacation. And there's nobody there. It's just this floating tech.

25:50And they ended up bringing another tech from one of the other shops that they had been telling me for 3 months was eventually going to come to my store because he lived around the corner. He literally lived around the corner. Yeah, but we didn't— I ended up finding out a little bit later that they didn't want to break up the group that they had at the other store, which, listen, I get, but don't tell me you're bringing this person You know what I mean?

26:16Like I've, um, had a lot of success over the years, like teaching younger guys. Like I was at a company for like 9 years. Um, I ended up, I was started as a B-tech and then was a foreman at one of their other stores. And, you know, I ended up pulling kids off the gas pump. I'm like, just give me somebody that wants to learn.

26:34That's it. Like, I don't even care if they've ever worked on a car, just they show up to work every day and they're willing to work. That's it. And I'll teach them, you know what I mean? Like I will show them, have, let them have a little bit of desire, you know what I mean? To, to wanna work on cars, you know?

26:52I think that's the biggest thing in our industry too. It's like I hear it all the time, especially with Lucas and stuff like that. Like, and, um, even going all the way back to the OG Wrenching Network days on Facebook, you know what I mean? Like how do we get young guys in? Well, One, we gatekeep, you know what I mean? Like, I— me coming up, I had a lot of issues, you know.

27:13I got put into a position very early on in my career where I had to figure it the fuck out. Like, there was nobody was coming to save me, and I had to sink or swim. And that's when I really dug in and started to read. The amount of reading— like, I really appreciate what Brian Pollock talks about all the time. Like, the first 40 hours you make your income, the next 40 you hone your craft.

27:35Like between Scanner Danner, Jason Garoppas on YouTube, the Snap-on trainer guy, and, you know, Royalty. Now we have all these other ones, but Scanner Danner, I bought his book in like 2014, you know what I mean? And I read that thing probably 30 times, you know, and part of his private classes and stuff. But like, that's, that's what, like, just to share the information, like these days, like especially the young guys I have with me now, it's like, This is why my tools are organized like this.

28:07This is why I do the things I do. You know, we're a team. We pull in horn, lights, wipers, racket. You know what I mean? And you save 15 minutes right there. But it's about community. You know what I mean? Like, I feel like coming up too, a lot of the older guys were about like, it was so feast or famine about feeding their families that they didn't want to really share that information.

28:33Now, I feel like the pay's catching up. You know, it is, is we're getting almost to a point now where I think everybody can kind of slow down a little bit. I had a great conversation yesterday and he's like, yeah, we're all on, you know, incentivized. We're hybrid pay. We all, you know, if somebody, if you got to push a car in, if somebody needs help, we all stop and are available.

28:57And it's like nobody's sitting there going, hurry up and learn this because I got to go back to my bay or else I'm going to be behind. And none of that happens, right? And I think that that's what this industry— finally, if we can get there, I think we're going to— it's not about flat rate or pay or whatever, but if we can get that attitude changed where it's like we all need to just slow down and be, like you said, a community.

29:19This industry is a community finally. And I'll say this, it took the internet getting as big as it did for that to happen because I can remember 14 years ago when I worked in a shop, you know, a young apprentice would ask me like, how did you learn all this stuff? And I'm like, dude, YouTube. Like, I wasn't getting sent to training classes.

29:40So it was like, I can remember, well, like, as long as Paul Danner's been on YouTube, Scanner Danner, I've been watching his stuff. Yeah. And then it's like, there was Eric the Carb Guy before there was Scanner Danner. And it was like— and then there was, you know, Ivan from Pine Hollow comes along, and Eric O from South Maine comes along. And now it's this giant— Humble Mechanic, you know, like there's all these people that are all over YouTube that are teaching guys and girls how to fix cars.

30:14And I was there at the, like, the opening of that, right? So when these people now, these young people, and it's like they know of Check Engine Chuck on TikTok, or they know these people on TikTok. I'm like, you got to know where the OGs are. They're over on YouTube, right? That's where you get your long format. That's where you really get your education.

30:33Yeah, guys will show you little tips and stuff on TikTok. It's 6 minutes. But if you really want to learn, I tell all these people, how do you not know by now in our industry who Paul Danner is? How do you not know who Eric O is? Who Ivan is? Like, how do you not? But it's because whatever TikTok is showing them, that's the— that's how they find their people.

30:55So it's, it's cool to me because it's like when I recorded last year and I got to have Check Engine Chuck in the same room with like Keith Perkins and, and Scanner Danner, right? It's kind of like this— not to say that Paul Danner's old, but you know what I mean? It's like the OG. And then we have the guy that like when you step into the different streaming service is their number one guy, Chuck, right?

31:22And it was like to bring those 2 together and put them in the same room and just watch them like sit there and listen. It was the coolest thing in the world, right? Like it really was. And then, you know, so I tell people all the time, like, if we can stop fighting over money and start getting back to being craftsmen and teaching people how to do this, We'll solve so much of this BS, but it's the money first that is like why we're all, like you said, why we're gatekeeping.

31:51Sorry, I didn't mean to— no conversation there, but yeah, like I think that's what you were getting at is, you know, you had to, you had to sink or swim. Nobody's going to come and save you, you know. And, and to be honest with you, like I think that was a little bit of kick in the ass that I needed, you know what I mean?

32:07Like I, I always have the attention to detail, and that's what I tell my guys now, like If I'm walking through the yard and there's a piece of trash and I have my gloves on, I pick it up. You know, something's out of place, I put it away. And the one kid came up to me, he's like, why do you always do that?

32:23I'm like, it's a— if I know that I do it, I'm gonna do it on everything else I do today. You know what I mean? And if nobody else, if I don't do it, who else is gonna do it? You know what I mean? And like some of the, the leadership classes like that they, they send you to and they talk about leading by example.

32:39So like, I really take that stuff home with me and try to do it on a daily basis, you know? And like you were talking, one of the guys I started following recently was the Car Care Nut. And I kind of like him because he tries to break it down to the— now to the customer, because I feel like now we got to bridge the gap because I still run into a lot of people that have the old way of thinking, well, can't you just plug that thing into it?

33:04Like, no. Have you ever been to a baseball game? Yeah. You know how you have the section And then the row and the seat. Well, that scanner only gives you the section. You gotta find the row and the seat on your own, you know? And when I explain it to people like that, they're like, oh, well, yeah, that's why we have to charge you for the testing, you know?

33:21Yeah. Um, but, uh, I kind of forget what, but, but the training part, like I've been doing training my whole career because of being in the independent world. So like a lot of the stuff that the dealer guys were getting right off the bat, I was getting 5 years later. You know what I mean? Or 6 years later. And it was through like our auto parts places.

33:43It would be like, uh, Eastern Auto Parts Warehouse would have classes in the fall, NAPA would have them in the spring, and then like, you know, Snap-on would have like one a quarter, you know? And I would go to all of them and, uh, they would cover like test cases and stuff like that. And that was pre-internet days, so if you didn't go, you didn't get the info, you know what I mean?

34:04And, uh, That's back when they still gave you the certificates, the paper one. Now everything's digital, you know? So, but, um, I mean, where we met that at Tools, you know, that was my first time at an event like that. My first day there, I had breakfast with Brian Pollack and then I sat down and had lunch with Keith Perkins. And then you were sitting in the class.

34:23I'm like, I'm like starstruck right now. You know what I mean? Like, we watch you on, on, when you watch people on TV, it's like almost like, you know, you look up to people like that, you know what I mean? So it was, it was cool to be there and then just to hear, hear them talk and like, wow, we really share a lot of the same beliefs and vision for this industry.

34:46Yeah. You know, we're not really alone. Like as many times as I thought I was alone in this industry for doing the little things, trying to take care of the customer and their car and make sure it's safe and not Not trying to rob, you know. Yeah, there's a lot of that, you know, where they just— you know, I worked with a guy, he sold a brake flush, and he would laugh as, as he sprayed the, the brake reservoir with brake clean.

35:11Like, dude, you know what I mean? Like, I worked with guys that was like that. He would use a suction gun to pull, pull the fluid out of the master. Right? So he wasn't— he never cracked a bleeder screw. He never— like, they would use a suction gun, suck that master dry, you know, pour in clean fluid, wipe it down like he said.

35:34Um, and, and I thought, wow. Which, I mean, you can see his point. Well, you can't see it, but their justification was like, the customer can't prove anything, you know what I mean? Not that they're gonna bother, you know what I mean? Yeah. And do a test strip, it's gonna show that it's new fluid. Yep. Sure. In there. But it isn't the whole fluid.

35:58It's not the whole system. No. Injection service was one that I used to like. It would drive me nuts. I'd see other guys in the shop and they'd sell one. And at the end of the day, the can was sitting on their bench, never poured into the car. Never, never done. It was just, they just wanted the quick 2 hours of selling a fuel system service, which was an injector flush and a throttle body.

36:20And, and, you know, you get into the whole, do you take the throttle body off to clean it, all that jazz. Like, I'm not— that's— I'm not up to discuss. But like, they knew then if the can wasn't even there, they at least got 1 hour that the customer paid for that, that, you know, never did anything. And that shit would just drive me nuts, you know what I mean?

36:39Because it's— that's blatant theft at that point. Yep. And then, you know, because it's a situation of Hypothetically, say that the injector cleaning actually did something back then. And you can— did port cleaning port injectors ever really do anything or not? That's a whole thing. But if it was doing something and nobody ever did it, the next time it comes in for a misfire, you're not going to be able— the next person's not going to be able to sell it because it was just done within the last year, right?

37:09Even though it might fix the car. So there was lots of cars that like it had already had it done, quote unquote, on history. And I would have to go and do it again for free. Yep. You know, as part of my process. And I'll tell you, it did work on a lot of the cars because it did clean up a lot of the idle.

37:30Does it— is it ever going to restore an injector? No, it's not. But it does clean up some of the idles on some of the the older stuff that was, you knew, you definitely knew it was carboned up for sure. You could drive it and tell, you know, at least they get the spray pattern to change a little bit, you know. And it drove me nuts so that somebody was like, because these were guys that were already making $10, $12 a day.

37:53Yeah, like they're making good hours. They're making more than me that was lucky to hit $9 because I was doing diag heavy. Um, and you'd sit there and be like, So why don't they just stop ripping the customer off? And the thing that would stress me out is like the manager knew it was happening. Like everybody knew who was doing it and it was happening.

38:15Didn't care. Yep. Keep your shop production numbers at a certain amount, right? What do you care? So when you mentioned the guy like spraying the brake reservoir off and wiping it down with a rag and laughing like that, yeah, that's That's shit. And that's— and then you wonder, like, in today's world, when we have to sell 2 hours of testing off the bat, why people are like, why?

38:41You know, why do you need to do that? I know for myself, like, I need to be able to lay my head down at night. You know what I mean? Like, you see things in every industry. It's not just ours. You know what I mean? Like, we may think that some of these other industries are glorious, but I hear guys all the time talking about You know, you just scroll on TikTok and any trade they're showing you where people are shortcutting this and, you know, these buildings aren't up to code and, you know, so it's, it's, it's everywhere.

39:10It's everywhere. Foundations are cracking. Like there used to be a Canadian show up here on TV. It was called Homes on Homes. Oh, that's my guy, Michael. Yeah. You, so you've seen him. Yep. Like, and what I loved about him is he'd go, Well, see how this is done to code? So it's done to code. It's legal. See how when we do it this way, how so much better it is and lasts longer for the customer and all this kind of stuff makes the house worth more, more efficient.

39:39That's what I love because if you want to see building code get changed, that's how you'd see it get changed is by somebody out there advocating for the industry saying this is how we make it better. So shout out to Mike Holmes. Like, as a fellow Canadian, I've watched him, and I'm not a guy that's handy around the house at all, but I would watch him and be like, that's the kind of what I want to do for my industry, what he does for, you know, carpentry and construction and all that kind of stuff.

40:08That's what I wanted to do. That was the end goal. Um, because I think it's so— like you said, people don't understand. You know, they go and buy a house, or they hire a contractor, or get a car fixed. They don't know They're trusting us that we're legit qualified and, and, you know, honest. And it's, it's still bad that there's guys out there that are, you know, wiping down a master cylinder and putting an hour in their pocket.

40:36Yeah. And, you know, I don't know about up there, but with the— so we use a lot of BG products. You also get a kickback from BG. So like, yeah, you know, it just Some of the things, it's like, why? You know what I mean? Like we were, we were talking about pay and I'm sitting here thinking about pay structure and it's like, I got a very good guarantee with a very high flat rate number with a very good bonus.

41:02So it's like, I'm in a position where I can do the right thing today. You know, you know what I mean? And everybody around me does the right thing because there's none of that cutthroat. There's 4 cars and 10 techs, you know, and everybody need, it's Thursday and everybody has 10 hours in for the week. You know, so which I'm like actually fixing the cars today and, and providing a good service to the customer is like, it's a good feeling every day, you know?

41:30And that's why I keep saying I don't go back to dealers because all of them right now are, there's too many techs for the car count. And then even then the, the ARO, the average repair order is almost always straight warranty. You know, and everybody goes, well, like, uh, you know, you can, you can get the, you know, the times are not terrible.

41:50Yeah, like if you're one of those guys that you like, you're the transmission guy at that dealer, you can get like what Nissan CVTs, right? We all did. If you did enough of them, pretty soon that was a good job for you because you could hit the time easy, easy peasy. Some guys could even half it in the warranty time. Well, if there's no more trannies coming in What's everybody doing?

42:13No, like you said, to hoping that the service writer can sell all the BG fluid flushes that have to be done on that vehicle at 90,000K, which, you know how, you know, people that have never worked in the dealer, you see all the comments all the time where it's like, I only go to the dealer for the warranty stuff. Well, if you've never been that dealer tech and seen that reality, it is heart— disheartening every day to go in and know that you're going to deal with like 10 people today, customers, that you're going to prep 10 estimates, do 10 DVIs, and they're not going to buy nothing.

42:49Because it doesn't matter if it's fallen off. They are there because of a recall. They're there because of a complaint under warranty. And they're so irritated about the fact that it's broken under warranty, or it's, it's so inconvenient to them to have to be there that you're— they're not, they're not interested. It's like It could catch on fire on the way home and they'll be like, I'm taking it to my guy.

43:10I don't want you guys touching it. So, you know, the whole thing of the dealer guys is like everybody gets so mad at them and says they can't fix anything. But think about what that would do to your psyche if you were doing all these inspections on all these cars and you know it needs work done and you know that it doesn't matter what you do, you're hardly going to get any of that work.

43:31Yeah. Right. It's like getting a work order that says Jiffy on it. Yeah. You know, for an oil change. Like, are you not going to even attempt to sell this? You know what I mean? What do you mean Jiffy Lube? You know, like, no, like, we look at these cars. I'm still going to look at this car. You know what I mean?

43:49No, I mean, I've never really thought about it like that. You know, as far as like, it's tough, the dealer guys. Like, I don't know if I could show up every day knowing that either my service advisor is not going to try to sell anything or the customer doesn't want to do anything at the dealership. And it's not, you know, I'll say this, a lot of dealers hire, like a lot of service writers get their start in dealerships because it's like the, it's, it's the same.

44:16A lot of techs get their start because they'll hire them and give them a chance. But man, I can, I can show you some really good writers that eventually got beat down and were like, I'm not, I'm not even trying to sell anything because it's like I've, I've tabled 8 estimates today and all 8 have said no. Number 9, like, is here for an oil change and a recall.

44:39Uh, why bother, you know? And it's that why bother thing of like where I get so mad and people get on me because it's like I always thought it was flipped where Advisors should have been the ones on a heavy commission, and the skilled trades in the back should have been on some kind of salary. And that would have forced them, because it's like, you can say you're only going to make $30,000 a year as a service writer, shit pay.

45:07And a lot of them are just like, they just sit there, you know, and, and do that job year after year, and they eke out their living, and they manage to survive and live, you know, within their means at $30,000. And then you got a technician in the back who's like, they want you to pump out 50, 60 hours a week. And you're hoping then that you can do that so you can earn this kind of living and pay for your tools and all this kind of stuff.

45:32And yet there's no cars coming in and there's no work being sold. And then you have an advisor who doesn't really, is just kind of checked out and doesn't care and they're not selling. Well, who really at that point is the bigger offender in the dealership or the business period? Of why it's not producing. It's the advisor. Yep. And then it starts at the top.

45:53And unfortunately, they're at the— they get all the praise and they get all the shit too. And that's the same thing in the independent world. You know, the customers think that the service advisor fixed the car. And they also think he's the one that fucked it up. You know what I mean? So it's, it's a double-edged sword, you know? Yep. They think if, you know, they're so happy because the service writer took care of them.

46:15But if the car has to come back, that damn service writer must have given it to the wrong tech. Yep. And it's like, they don't— they're not in charge of dispatch. Like, I mean, some places they're not, you know, larger operations definitely they're not, right? It's just a work order to them and they don't— now, you know, they might dispatch like your requisitions or, or your comeback or your diag or whatever.

46:37Yeah. But otherwise it's like when they come in and they go Well, we were just talking about that yesterday and it's like the guy said to me, he's like, I don't send a customer to a dealership or any shop unless I know one of the technicians personally there. Because he said, otherwise I don't feel good about sending them because I don't know what experience they're going to get.

46:59That's very telling of our industry, Brian, where it's like, and it's so common for us. Well, what's that place like to work? And it's like, well, you can go see all the Google reviews. But I can't speak for it because I don't know anybody that works there. Like, that's, that's a different level of insight into how is it really going to be probably for my friend or the typical customer.

47:21If I know the person there, I can go and say, yeah, go see Brian, he's excellent at, you know, you've got a Subaru or whatever. Yeah, he knows them, go see them. But it's like now it's gotten so funky where it's like people are like, what kind of car should I buy? And I'm like, I don't know. Yeah. Not only you can see all the Google stuff about they're having transmission failures or something, but I can't even in my confidence be able to say, yeah, go buy a Jeep from this dealer and service it there because I know a person there that's good.

47:54All the good people that I knew, gone, left. They've taken jobs for the city. They've gone to independent shops. So it's like, I don't know how to recommend anything anymore. You know, it's like, I guess I'll work on it, you know, unless you buy one of those Euros and then don't, don't, you know, I don't even know if we can be friends.

48:15Yeah. As you're saying that, I'm thinking about, you know, all the people that, you know, I've known over the years that have made the switch to independent or left the industry completely, you know, that were at the dealerships. You know, it's funny too, because, you know, along the way, like everybody was like, You know, I was asking early on, like, should I go to a dealer?

48:34They're like, no, go independent. I had a steering and suspension teacher that he worked for Chevy way back in the early '90s. And he's like, go to an independent shop. You want to work on everything. You want to be able to do everything. And like, I could speak for myself. Like I've been able to learn many different, like different factors of the, uh, of this industry.

48:58From the front to the back, you know, and, and everything in between. And, uh, being useful, you know what I mean? The more you know, you know, the, the harder it is to be replaced. And, um, yeah, I, I was waiting for you to bring up Jeeps because I got a 2019 Jeep Wrangler throwing all kinds of lights that came in on Friday.

49:21And, uh, the only module that doesn't communicate with the scan tool is the ABS module. So I have a little bit more tracing to do, but you know, I don't think it's a computer. I think I got a bad connection somewhere, but that's waiting for me tomorrow. Yeah, look for your star connector on that, right? Yep. That's kind of the doer. I mean, I got a '15, so like I don't get as much— well, I mean, I worked on a 2020 Gladiator the other day.

49:47I mean, when I say worked on it, I evaluated it. They're trying to get me to buy it. And it needs a ton of work and they're asking way too much money. So that's probably not going to come into my personal fleet. I like Gladiator, but I— and I do eventually, I will own one. I think they're pretty cool. But this is not the one for Jeff, right?

50:07My '15 Wrangler is in way better shape than this '20 Gladiator, you know, and it's only like my Wrangler. So I'm going to use the metric system for everybody that loves it so much. My '15 Wrangler's got 160,000 miles. 65,000 on it and it's a '15. This '20 Gladiator has got 150,000. So I would be spending a substantial amount of money and only gaining like 16,000K less mileage.

50:38It's not worth the money because it's like mine's been undercoated, mine's got new brakes, mine's got, you know, all the fluids have been done. This I know nothing about. It looks like it has been worked really hard and put away in a bad way, you know. So, and it probably needs the Dorman engine update with the metal everything, right? You want— it's— I'm surprised it doesn't have a, a failed thermostat like it probably should have by now, right?

51:05Like every Pentastar wants a, uh, a thermostat. It hasn't. It doesn't tick, but it does have a 300 TTC stored in it, so there's something going on there. It's, um, you know, it's just one of those ones where it's like, I ain't gonna touch it. But it's so funny to me how, you know, people get in their head that it's like, don't take your car here and don't take your car there.

51:30And it's like we were talking yesterday, that can be based on one technician can be screwing it up for everybody. Yep. And, and we know, like, if you work in any shop, it's not just a dealership thing, you know your, your weakest link, you know your your, your star player, and you know, your weakest player, and they tend to tolerate that. So it's like they see it where the car, you know, tech number, whatever, another comeback, another comeback, another comeback, you know, but if he's staying within a certain production and it's only in a certain level, they tolerate it.

52:05Well, that person is continuously damaging the reputation maybe affecting the Google reviews if you want to get in on that. But it's like, what are we going to do at this point, Brian? Like, we, you know, we're in a shortage. We can't, we can't, you know, we got to get cars fixed, you know. Yeah. And I was, I was watching a thing the other day too where, you know, they were saying most tech techs these days are B-techs, they're metal hangers, you know, unless you're, you're into the scope world.

52:34Like, there's very few master techs. And, you know, for a while Before I heard that, I would tell you I'm a master tech. But after hearing that, like, I don't know. You know what I mean? Like, I'm very good. Um, and I have all the tools, you know, I have all the testing equipment and all the knowledge, but, you know, am I?

52:54I'm not into the programming aspect yet, which is something that I would really like to get into, but it's a bit of an investment. You know what I mean? So. Yeah. And, you know, I bought the scan tools on my own and my scope on my own. And, you know, because of Steckler, I had to go get an 8-channel because we sat in that class and saying, if you're using a 4-channel, you're behind.

53:17You know, I'll tell you what, the 8-channel does work wonders. So I'll give them that. But, you know, and then the subscriptions to all these different manufacturers and, you know, the area I'm in, I'm like Villanova University area. It's all Audis and Mercedes and BMW and Volkswagen. So, you know, everything's plastic and everything's a computer. So, yeah, you know, it gets very expensive very quickly to repair some of these vehicles, you know.

53:44And, you know, Brian Pollack, I always remember, remind everybody when they talk about the thing, Brian says it's easy till it's not. Yeah. You know, that's the difference. Like, it's, it's a lot of pushing buttons and cashing checks. And making money. But man, when one goes wrong, it's like that's when you really start your work, because can you recover it, or how bad did it get when you, you know, flash the wrong thing, or, or, you know, like what happened, what, what it just decides to brick?

54:17Like, that's what scares me so much about programming. And like, I mean, I've done it with the, you know, the Autel like live where you go in there and find somebody. I've used the, the Snap-on RAP or whatever, I guess, which is like, you know, you call up Snap-on to the call center and they tell you when to log in and they sit there.

54:37You just sit there and put a tender on it and watch it and click a few buttons and, and they're handling it right. But man, it scares me with the idea of like all these guys that are buying dedicated laptops and partitions within the laptops and then subscriptions. Like Brian tells you, every Sunday night he's doing like 2 hours of work on his laptops.

54:55To, to update everything so that Monday when he goes to work, the first car that he might have to flash, he's not going to spend 2 hours like updating it before he can do it. It's already ready to go. Well, like, that's Brian doing that, and there's, you know, that seems to be the way it's done in the industry. Most of the guys that are heavy into programming, that's a big part of their weekend, is like making sure everything ready to go on Monday.

55:21But like, you see the conversations, I've seen them. Guys are like, how many times is this General Motors site down? All several times a week, you know what I mean? It just can't keep up. And everybody's like, so you got a customer sitting there and all they want is like an HVAC reprogram or something, and you can't do it. And then, you know, what happens then?

55:43How do you juggle that logistically? So it's like I always wanted to be like I could diagnose the car, but I always was spoiled from so many years in the dealership of programming where most of the time it goes pretty smooth because you're using the OE script, the OE, you know, tool that I was just like, if we had a customer and, you know, uh, Nissan 101 DTC, you know, you know that TSB that says first thing you check is this and that software update fixes a lot of them.

56:14I was— I had no problems telling the customer, you know, just head over there and have them do it. They'll charge you, you know, $120 or whatever, and it's done. And I don't have to— because for me, by the time I would like try and get a subscription or try to get somebody to come in through Autel and do it, I was paying the same amount that they would have paid.

56:35Yep. And I'm gonna mark it up above that, and then they're going, why is it costing more for you to do it than the dealer? It's a fair question. It really is a fair question. Like, I don't mind telling them that I have to charge more because I'm not the dealer, but it's just one more wrinkle, you know. Um, our local Dodge dealer, radio frequency hubs in Ram trucks, really bad problem, right?

56:57Like, common failure. And they were programming them so cheap that it wasn't even worth it for us to even try to go on to Autel and get somebody to remote in live and flash it. Wasn't even worth it. Wasn't even worth it. Just tow it over there and have them do it, drive it back. You know, it was— wasn't worth the time.

57:18And that, that's one of the, the challenges in the independent world. And, you know, reading a lot of the legislation that's coming out here in the U.S. side with, you know, these forward-facing cameras that are going to monitor the drivers, and, you know, Ford and GM meeting with the president to try to block us out of fixing these cars? Like, you know, at what point, at what point, you know, does it end?

57:43You know what I mean? And I feel like we're on a trajectory of, of technology that it's like we talked about earlier, it's sink or swim at this point, you know? And my gut's telling me to get into the programming now, you know what I mean? And the conversation I had with Brian with, with the dedicated laptops and everything that he does, you know, ahead of time to make sure that it goes smoothly.

58:07And plus everything I see online in the Change in the Industry, you know, podcast group and, you know, that's, that's where we're going. It's, we're gonna come to a point in the industry, dealer independent, the guy in the garage where you can't replace a tail lamp assembly without programming something. You know, Ford's already there. And the thing is, it's like people talk about Tesla and self-driving mode is so cool.

58:37Well, there's other people that are going to do that too, right? We're going to see it happen. And then the thing is, we had a really good conversation yesterday and it's like everybody then is immediately going to want that because what it means, like Mike Allen in his podcast last week, he said, We're going to get to where there's so many cars on the highways and the highways are not going to be able to get bigger.

58:56And the only way it's all going to work that everybody's going to be able to drive home at 70 miles an hour like they want to within 10 feet of each other and not have an accident is because the car will be doing the driving. That's the only way we're going to be able to fit the amount of cars on the highways that we can.

59:11So 2 things I took from that conversation is going to happen. We're either going to price it out so that the amount of cars on the highway go go down and then we're not overflowing the grid, or the technology is going to get to be at such a point where it's taken over everything and it becomes affordable enough that we're still going to see the same amount of cars, but we're going to have less control.

59:36And that scares me. And then it's like the programming thing, to me, it's kind of the same idea as the ADAS conversation. You know, when we're already seeing like GM doing over-the-air programming, right? And then it's like, so all these people, all of a sudden it's like, I'm going to invest all this money into being able to program these cars. If they flick a switch and next week decide we're going to— our next run that rolls out is going to be able to program remote over the air.

1:00:02You know, they'll just tell the customer, hey, it's an EV anyway, it's plugged into the wall, right? We're going to go ahead and update that car while it's plugged in. And, and, you know, time down. People won't even know. No, no. And then all of those people that's made that investment, what do you do? What do you do with that investment? It's, it's like my dad's scan— I have the brick with the cartridges.

1:00:27It's just sitting in his toolbox. Like, yeah, I have old scanners that are outdated, you know. Today I'm— I got the Autel Maxis Elite with the J-box. I do have the the box. And then the Snap-on is the SOLUS Plus. Okay. You know, cause I like to have the Snap-on, but you know, I have one, I have a couple scanners just sitting in the case.

1:00:48It's like collector's items at this point. You know what I mean? Brian Pollack's got like a, I'll call it like a, I would call it a china cabinet, but it's like this essentially this, this thing in his, in his house and it's got vintage scan tools in it. At some point they're going to be like those old gas pumps with the, the glass things at the top.

1:01:08Like, hey dad, what's that? Oh, that's an OBD1 scan tool, son. You know, Brick in there, he's got the first gen Vantage, which I have one. He's got a, you know, a Vantage Pro in there. Like, he's a collector of Vantage Pros. Like, if you didn't know that, like, who was it, Volvo, I think it was an OE tool, was a Vantage What was Advantage Pro?

1:01:32Okay, shipped in blue. Brian has one. He has to complete his collection by having— like, the guy's a bit of a nut when it comes to Advantage Pro. Like, he's, you know, but it's like the Genesis, he's got one of those. I mean, I worked on that. That thing was a fucking wheel chock. That's all it was good for. Now other people are like, no, man, it was a great tool.

1:01:51I'm like, no. I had the Brick from the time the Brick hit, and then I saw somebody hand me a Genesis and I went, this thing is like should be thrown in the lake. It's so bad. The keys, I remember like K27, I think it was K27 for GM. And then like key 12 or 16 or something like, but I remember I lost the keys.

1:02:13I was, I was working for a guy and he's like, you know, where the fuck are the keys at? I'm like, they're on the scan. They're always on the scanner. I ended up zip tying them to the thing. So like there was enough room where like you could get them off, but They never left that connector again, man. That was— and then when they would break, you know, and that's how far— and that's only within the last 15 years of technology that we're talking about right now.

1:02:37It's only been 15. Look at where we're at. You know, my 2025 Camry has that autonomous mode where you press a button and it holds the lane. It literally updated its, uh, its climate control Last night I came out and it was refreshing. I'm like, yeah, you know, so they're, they're doing a lot of that remotely already, which would be a great— it would be very helpful, you know what I mean?

1:03:02But then what if something happens and then you get like 100,000 dead cars because in the middle of the update their system glitched? So it opens up a lot, you know what I mean? Like, Brian, where do those cars get towed in? Yeah. All of a sudden it's like, you know, there's 100 Silverados tomorrow that they tried to do an over-the-air update and something got bricked and now the ECM is offline.

1:03:28Yeah. And is that on the customer? Is the customer paying that tow to the dealer or to the independent? Or what if they're at a hotel on a road trip with their family? You know what I mean? Yeah. And so then do we put in something where it's like, maybe you put a feature into the car where it's like, do you want your car to be able to receive over the air or do you wish to go to your service service provider and you, and you click and select it.

1:03:52Yeah. And say no. It's the same as I think about this ADAS stuff where everybody's like making all these huge investments in like, you know, targets and, and dedicated rooms with perfectly flat floors and, and, you know, not too much reflective light and all this stuff. And then I'm going, if they flick a switch and make these things dynamic, right? And, and all of a sudden How many times do we need to pull out targets?

1:04:18And how many times do we, you know, like they're already talking, like, I think it's Chrysler or Stellantis, I guess we're going to call it now. I dated myself. A lot of them are dynamic. They do it themselves. You just go on a road test and it learns it, right? So you know what the ADAS reminds me of is the early TPMS systems.

1:04:34Remember like the Ford magnets? You would have to use the magnet to trigger them, to wake them up and stuff like that before you Like, I feel like we're in that first phase of ADAS and I, I like to— like, there's the— ADAS is the future. There's— we're not going away from it. Yeah. Just like the TPMS sensors. But now where we are, where you can get an Autel with 50 sensors and they're universal and just go around, like, it's going to get easier.

1:04:59You know what I mean? Oh, I can remember that when it was like, oh, I can't remember the company, the name of the company, but it was the OE TPMS tool for Chrysler. And it was like there was a magnet. Well, we all figured out that you didn't have to use that. We all had a speaker. Yeah. And we changed on the warranty that that magnet worked just fine.

1:05:20And it was the same thing. You just left the key on, went around, ping, ping, ping, ping, ping, relearn, done. Yep. You know, and if it wouldn't ping, they'd jam a sensor in it. Right. And I made the argument that people have caught flak and, you know, the comment thread rolls up where it's like, think about how many times we see a car come in now, though.

1:05:38That the TPMS isn't functioning properly and nobody's fixing it. Yeah, it scares me with, with ADAS is because we're going to put all this stuff in these cars. When it's broken, customer like in the wintertime drives up on a parking, you know, lot cement thing barrier and they don't see it there because covered snow. They drive up over it and they hook their bumper on it and they tear their bumper off, right?

1:06:01She was in a hurry. She was going She, she was trying to get to Starbucks. They're going to keep driving that car. Yep. Like, they don't care that all of a sudden the cruise control, they could come up behind somebody and rear-end them. They don't care, man. They just want to get to where they want to go. And that's what scares me about this ADAS is because it's like at some point the public, without knowing— this is what scares me too— is I think the car is going to get to where it's like if it can't self-drive It won't drive.

1:06:31Yep. And then what's that say for people? And everybody's like, well, big deal. Like, I'll be able to afford to fix it. How? How many times do you have people come in and they can't even afford 4 new tires? I mean, they got a budget, you know, any, you know, a lot of, a lot of what we're seeing now is like, what's priority?

1:06:48Well, you know, you need 2, at least 2 tires and you should probably do that, that outer tie rod end. And then when you come back, we'll look at the car again and, you know, maybe do some of the maintenance stuff, you know what I mean? Came in for my air conditioning, I didn't even know about my tires and my tire. Yep, right.

1:07:05And now all of a sudden we're the jerks because it's like they want cold air, I totally get it, and we're telling them before you can get cold air, Mrs. Smith, like, you really should see the wire braid coming through the tire, really should make that a priority. And, and the tie rod end that you don't hear Because you got your, you know, you got your playlist on, on, on 10 all the time.

1:07:29Like, I— you don't even know what that is. You just are trusting me that you need a tie rod. Yeah, maybe put a DVI and I can shake the wheel and tell you that that's not supposed to go up and down, but you don't know, right? You just wanted cold air. This is where I really am scared with how much people want to surrender decisions and control back to the manufacturer.

1:07:54Yeah. And I think that's scary, right? I don't think it's a right to repair thing, but it's like, I think the public is going to willingly give a lot of it up. Well, they've done— they've given up a lot of other things unwillingly or just willingly without even, you know, the iPhone. Have you ever read some of the stuff in there? I just you can't function without the phone these days, but it's like, I don't want this thing around me either, you know what I mean?

1:08:19Yeah. Or why is it that I— why is it that I walked past, you know, something at my local Bass Pro Shops and I picked it up and I spoke about it to the person that was standing next to me and I never went to my phone? And yet when I go home now, the next thing that Facebook is showing me is ads for this thing that I saw at Bass Pro Shops.

1:08:43Yeah, it's, it's crazy too because you were talking about the people leaving the dealers and I'm like, I'm in the Philadelphia area and literally every dealership is looking for techs. Like they're paying for ads and it's just ad after you. If you scroll the reels or Instagram, it's just ad after ad after ad. It doesn't matter the brand. I'm close to New Jersey, so I get some of their stuff from over there and You know, you got me thinking about the ADAS thing.

1:09:11The amount of cars in Philadelphia, you got to think about the parking situation. It's very tight. If you park in South Philadelphia, Center City, you're, you're buttoned up with those parking sensors. So if they start shutting those, people don't fix that. Like you said, like it with the TPMS lights. And, and one of the problems in, in Pennsylvania is with the safety inspection.

1:09:32Like a lot of times, like some of the, the way the, the safety book is written, like people look at us like it's, it's me. It's, I'm like, it's the state, you know? So as the technology advances, this, these, this book hasn't really been updated like or rewritten in a very long time. You know, they give you different like updated pub numbers, but it's still basically what it's been for like a very long time.

1:09:57And there's nothing in there about ADAS or TPMS or, you know, the automatic parking brakes or anything like that. You know, so, and I mean, I safety, I safety cars every day, all day, right. For our standards up here. And people are amazed when I tell them that it's like, I can safety your car with an ABS light on. Like technically that's legal.

1:10:20Yeah. Here too. As long as the red brake light's not on. That's the, that's the one. And I'm like, but I don't. And it's like, I've caught flack because it's like the TPMS light's on. We get them all the time. Up here, you know, people get a winter set of snow tires and rims, right? Like they do down there. And, you know, because people were so behind the times and trying to embrace TPMS, they all have rubber valve stems in.

1:10:44So these cars will come in on trade and they've got a winter tire package on there with no TPMS. Well, me, I can technically sign that car as safe with the TPMS light on. Do I? Nope. It gets 4 new sensors. Right, like that. And everybody gets mad at me and it's like, you don't have to do that. I'm like, explain to me how you've disabled a safety system in the car, right?

1:11:08The car now, say it's a Nissan, it's just got 4 bars instead of 4 pressure readings because it's got rubber valve stems in it. Tell me how I didn't disable a system. Yep. They're like, well, technically you did. Well, in the eyes of the government, they're like, put the lights on so the customer knows they're liable for checking the tire pressure. When's the last time you ever saw anybody check their own damn tire pressure?

1:11:30You don't, right? At all. The people don't. I had to show somebody how to— a grown man how to check his oil the other day. And I'm just— I'll show you once. You know what I mean? I had a guy that works in our company and he brought in his ex. It was a Ford. What was it? 2012 Ford. Escape, right? And he brings it in last week, and it's because somebody told him, hey Mo, your right front tire is soft.

1:12:03So of course then we look at it. Well, I think it's been soft forever because the tire is starting to dry crack, right? It's got one of those rims on it that— remember Ford when they had— it was a steel rim, but they had a chrome piece, like plastic, that went over top, and they're hard to get like Guys, poverty caps, right?

1:12:23But they, they leak through those style of rim all the time. And I'm wetting the tire down trying to find it, can't find a leak. And I said to him, I said, well, and I, of course, I get in and drive it in and show me TPMS's lights on. I'm like, well, like, how long has your TPMS light been on? Oh, he says years.

1:12:42And I'm going like, so You know, we can put all this shit into cars and I really don't think it's going to matter because I don't think people are going to fix it. Like, I think until they're forced to fix it, which is what's going to happen, is the cars are going to get to a point where they're going to be like, hey, I'm a Tesla and I self-drive.

1:13:04I can't rely on you to be a good enough driver anymore with the amount of people that are out on this, on the roads. We're all self-driving. As soon as something disables self-driving, you're not gonna be able to drive the car. I think that's the ultimate endgame that the manufacturers want to play. I really think it is, you know, and that's just like, if that's not scaring everybody, it really friggin should.

1:13:26Yeah. And, and it's, you're not even really owning it either because even with my car, like, listen, I have, I buy a brand, I have a beater and I have a brand new Toyota. The Toyota, I drive to the shore or wherever. It's nice to have. Yeah. I have to pay a subscription fee for the remote on my phone to have to be able to start it, adjust the climate.

1:13:50Yeah, it's cool, but I pay $15 a month. So even though I'm— I own the vehicle, I don't own the car. That's right. Yeah. So it's like my Sirius Radio subscription is $28 a month. Yep. And then it's like if I want my remote start to work, I got to pay that as subscription-based too. Yeah. So it's like they're finding ways just to keep— even with PlayStation, I'm a GTA guy.

1:14:13I can't wait. Now they're saying no disc. I like collectibles. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, I got The Godfather back here. You know what I mean? Like, I want the map like we had, you know, 13 years ago when Grand Theft Auto 5 came out, you know? Yeah. So it's And, you know, I don't know what this means for then the technicians coming forward because like you hear them talk about how they're going to go to Trump, right?

1:14:40Or they did go to Trump and Trump kind of like sent them home. No, you guys are talking crazy. People should be able to work on their own car. That's the synopsis of that conversation. But the real reality that's coming forward is there's going to be a lot more talks where it's going to be like, oh yeah, you're free to work on it if you want.

1:14:58But we're going to price everything that you would need to do these ADAS calibrations and these updates to make the car continue to operate the way it was designed. It's going to be at such an astronomical price, I think that you're going to see people not pay the money for it. Yep. You know, and then it's going to be— it's the same old thing, everybody, the right to repair.

1:15:17Well, we should have access to this and access to that. Dude, they've been playing with us for years because it's like they'll say Yeah, we'll give you access, but it costs this amount of money. And everybody goes, well, that's such a ridiculous price. I can't afford it. Nobody said they were going to make it affordable. They just, the government said you had to make it available.

1:15:36We make it available. Yeah. And at what cost, you know, and some of the, you know, speaking with some of the parts reps and some of the tool truck drivers, like a lot of shops are aging out, you know, in the next 5 years, there's going to be a lot of shops closing so that it's gonna shrink down. You know what I mean?

1:15:55As, as far as options to have your vehicle repaired as well as skilled people. And then all that knowledge dies with those guys that retire and don't pass it on to anybody, you know? Well, and, and, you know, it's not for me to sit here and wave the flag of the dealer. That's not what this is about. But like we talked about, like some of the guys that I've had on that were 20-year vets of the dealer.

1:16:19And they got fed up and they left, right? You— I, I don't care how you think you're gonna hire somebody young and they're gonna be great and everything. You have lost 20 years of brand knowledge that you cannot replace. You can't do it. And they went to your competition, which is they're now in the aftermarket, and they brought that wealth of knowledge on that product.

1:16:43It's like me, like when I left Chrysler and I hit the independent Like, I— they were amazed at what I knew about that product in terms of the common failures. Like, I knew TSBs that weren't published. I knew recalls that weren't— I can remember central timer modules in Dakotas and Durangos were a real common problem for everything from lighting to, uh, 4-wheel drive actuation.

1:17:09And I remember working in a shop where it's like I, I condemned the the central timer module. That was why it wouldn't— the 4-wheel drive wouldn't work. And they went and got a price. It was like $700 for one back then. And I'm like, um, go pull up this recall, which of course the vehicle doesn't apply to the recall, but pull this part number from the recall and ask them how much it is to buy that module under the recall part number.

1:17:35$70. And it works. It worked fine. You know what I mean? And it's— it wasn't like I had to do programming back in the day. It was a plug and play. So if I hadn't have known that from my experience of doing the recall over and over again, like, is the information out there? Sure it is, but it's not at the level of the, of the speed of somebody that comes with that experience, experience on that van.

1:18:02So when you have guys that just all of a sudden go, F this, I'm done, I don't care what you hire or what you say, you, you lose. You've lost. Now, that doesn't mean that they get to come in every day like me, like I was towards the end, to be toxic and, you know, um, stop caring and stop— I didn't stop caring, but I was like, I was fighting every day.

1:18:25I was fighting every day. I woke up every day and chose violence. Like, I had a chip on my shoulder, and you were gonna know it was there and why it was there. And I would fight you on everything. And so when you lose those people, yes, you lose that toxic problem, but you also lose a ton of knowledge that goes along with it.

1:18:46And it's just— this is where we have to find this happy balance of like, how do we keep, you know, our veteran, you know, happy and satisfied and paid well? So that we don't lose that knowledge. But at the same time, how, you know, if they become damaging to the culture, you probably can't fix it, you know. And I think where the independent world and the dealership guys share the same pain is that we become toxic because of the bullshit with whether it be the manufacturer, the cars, parts, the customers, The service writers, personal stuff, you know, because there's, as much as I try to separate my personal life from work, you know, there was

1:19:35a stretch of time there where my mental health working in the shop by myself and going through a breakup with a female, man, it just, it wasn't good. And, you know, and our, we're in our industry, we're the toughest of the tough and you just don't talk about that stuff, man. And, you know, there, there was a crumbling point there. For a little while, you know what I mean?

1:19:55Well, I mean, as a man, you're not even supposed to talk about it, right? Yep. That's, that's the whole thing. You're really not, you know. It's— and, you know, I'm not trying to throw shade at different careers, but I mean, if you're a first responder, you're a fireman, you're a police officer, you're a correctional officer, it's becoming more acceptable that, yeah, you can talk about your day and you can talk about it.

1:20:15And, but I mean, man, like, where we are You can't just immediately go over to your friend and go like, listen, Brian, I'm having a really tough time here, right, with what's going on at home. And then, you know, this place is this place. We can joke about what's going on at home, but we only joke about it. You know, it's not so accepted yet and become the norm that we can share with our coworkers.

1:20:40And I say everybody's like, why is that? A lot of the time the guy that I'm working with is my competition. He's not my teammate, he's my competition. I'm trying to catch him, or he's trying to catch me, right, through the pay structure and the culture and all this kind of stuff. So when we talk about culture in this industry, it's not just about pay, but it's about that ability that I can stop what I'm doing and go help somebody, or I can just be there to listen.

1:21:07And it doesn't mean at the end of the day it was an absolute, like, the wheels fell off the cart. Because we took some time to be there for our coworker, you know, or they took time to be there for me. Right now, I think we're running at such a fever pitch that most shops can't stop and do that. And they talk about their KPIs and everything, but what's the real— what's the real metric?

1:21:32Or is there ever— you know, the funny part is they all talk about family culture, family this, and And you get there and it's, it's laughable. And that's why I'm grateful, like the group of men that I work with on a daily basis, man, like the other lead tech knows everything. There's, we've, we've stayed after and talked more than I've talked to anybody in my career.

1:21:58And it's like, he knows when I'm off. I don't even have to say anything. He'll just let me be. He knows I'm the type, just leave me alone. I'll eventually come around and when I do, I'll talk to you. And I could read it on him, you know, and that's, I think we need more of that in the industry. It's just somebody to lean on because this, these cars, you know, there's days I drive home with the music off 35 minutes, man.

1:22:19Just like, why, why do I do this to myself? Why do I choose these battles? You know? And then when you do fix it, it's that, that dopamine hit that you just can't describe. Like, man, I fucking fixed that thing. Nobody else could. You know what I mean? I was just gonna ask you, but then you answered it, because it's like, I think the optimal place that we can get is where it's only the cars that are problems for us, right, that are stressing us, but the culture is so good that it's like, I don't, I don't go home hating my job because of, you know, this guy, you know, I had to fix his

1:22:58comeback and nobody said thank you, or, you know, I watched him pull another car in and he hit 20 hours today and I hit 7 because like he won't do anything but the easy shit, right? They feed him. If we can ever get to where that's not even a problem anymore and all we had to do is just stress about fixing the car, then I think it would be a lot more like the mental health in our industry wouldn't be so bad, right?

1:23:22But it's that, it's that culture and then the complexity of fixing these vehicles that I think for a lot of us right now It's just too much. And, you know, we talk about the suicide numbers in our trade and all that kind of jazz, and I can't remember them now to quote them, but it's bad. Yeah, it's really bad. I just saw it the other day.

1:23:43We're like number one in the trades for, for, you know, unaliving. So, and I mean, you know, my dad died from alcoholism, you know what I mean, at 55, 7 years ago, you know what I mean? So Brian, how many techs do you know that have addictions? I mean, I'm, I'm sober almost 13 years, you know what I mean? It just, without it, you know, it's, it's rampant, you know what I mean?

1:24:10And especially in this area, you know, I mean, when the opioid crisis started, man, Kensington's one of the biggest open-air drug markets in, in the, on the continent, you know what I mean? So I know so many technicians that like the only way they got a hold of their alcoholism was to switch to marijuana. Yeah. So I mean, and now they're like, they are, they smoke a lot of it.

1:24:36I'm not judging, but it used to be that they used to pound, you know, a bottle of vodka a night. Yeah. Because they were so, you know, now they go home and smoke a joint. And they're, they're way more even-keeled. I'm not sure that that's the solution, but when I, when I know so many technicians that like they go home and they drink 4 or 5 beer— like, I grew up with my dad as a body man.

1:25:04Yep, probably did too. Where it was, that was every night. Not my dad so much, but it was like, for a while it was every Friday afternoon. That used to be the joke, that you couldn't get your car out of the body shop on a Friday Because everything at noon shut down. And in the lunchroom, I can remember walking in at 8 years old.

1:25:23I can remember walking in to pick up my dad because they would let him go at like 2 instead of being there till 5 because nothing was rolling anyways. And the week— and there'd be 6 cases of beer on the lunchroom table. Yep. Now I'm not judging, but I mean, that's, that's 6 cases of beer. They didn't have like 100 people working there.

1:25:47But when you look at it from this side, it puts it into perspective, you know what I mean? I'm sure you've gone through your struggles, you know, and I get it now. Like, when I was younger, I didn't understand. I could have been angry or whatever, but now looking back, it's like, man, like how we— you talked about before with the pressure of the deadlines of being by yourself, you know, in the shop, and then, you know, this bill's due and I'm, I'm not making any money here and the car's broken and The cat's got to go to the vet.

1:26:17For me, I never got into the addiction, knock on wood, thank God. But I was so angry with everything. I was so angry with my workplace. I was so angry that it affected my relationships. I was essentially, for all intents and purposes, I was married. And, and, you know, we never walked down the aisle, but we lived together for a substantial amount of time.

1:26:45My— the, the industry, my— where my head was in that destroyed it, ruined it, because I could not— I would be so mad some days that I could not get how I was feeling out. I mean, I could talk, I could bitch about it, I could complain, but like She didn't understand. I mean, she understood because she had heard me do it for years.

1:27:08She, she knew what flat rate meant. She could recite it, but I couldn't go to her and say, what do I do? How do I make it better? You know, that's where you can go to your coworker if you guys are working as a team and you can kind of work through that. But I mean, my brother right now, his really good friend is, you know, found out that his wife has had 2 affairs on him and they're trying to figure out, like, 3 kids under 10, what do we do?

1:27:40You know, and he's looking at this like, I'm liquidating the second business that I have now, which I think was probably part of the reason that, like, she strayed, because I think he's— he already had a full-time job, very high demand. He's a first responder. And then he has this secondary business on the side. And I think it was eating up all the time that he had.

1:28:02And I think that's probably why she just felt at some point like she didn't matter and, you know, she wasn't important. And I mean, I know in his heart of hearts he was doing everything for the sake of the family, but this is where when we talk in this industry about like, okay, you're gonna go to work this week and you're gonna do your 40, and you're gonna have to do your second 40.

1:28:26Nope. What's the sacrifice when we're doing our second 40? What are you missing? I mean, I can relate to it, man. You know, like, are we sitting in bed at night, you know, watching Scanner Danner videos to try and become better for the next day? And everybody— or, you know, so it's— yeah, I mean, we're all sitting there before we go to bed staring at our phones, maybe sitting in bed next to your wife and she's staring at something completely different.

1:28:55I'm not saying that's healthy, but if we come home every night and we decide, okay, I got to spend 2 hours to make my craft better for tomorrow, how do we find the time? Because that's that 2 hours. That should be when I want to come home and see my son or my daughter and hear about their day and spend time with them and, you know, take them to a hockey practice or watch them, you know, take them to a wrestling practice.

1:29:19Or if I have to be doing this after I'm done that, this polishing of our craft, there's going to be a sacrifice there. And also, you know, with the anger, like, what are you doing for yourself too? You know, we had talked about it a little bit before, beforehand, and I think for myself, like, once I started to find some hobbies outside of the industry is when I kind of was able to, you know, in essence, let my hair down and relax a little bit, you know.

1:29:56And for me, that was playing recreational softball. Like, it could look like fishing, it could look like whatever it needs to look. For a while there, I was into mountain biking, you know what I mean. And, but just to— but then again, like, that's also taking time away from the family, you know what I mean. So like trying to include everybody in the, in the activity too, you know, and It's not easy, man, you know?

1:30:20Yeah. Or we see people talk about like, well, I go to the gym, you know, and I'm saying that that's probably a good idea for a lot of us because I think like that might be a cheat code to kind of extend our career a little bit without some of the aches and pains is going to the gym because it keeps us mobile and fit and, you know, strong or at least flexible.

1:30:43But man, that's a commitment in time too. Yep. Right. All of a sudden we don't have with, with our families and stuff. And I just, I, you know, everybody says that, you know, well, if you don't that second 40 hours, you're just going to be mediocre. And there's a lot of people in a lot of other trades, though, that are not mediocre in the trade.

1:31:04And I'm not just talking from pay, but from ability that don't have to do that 20 that 40 hours a week, you know, that we have to do. And I think it's just like, because going back to the, you know, the, the housing market as an example, or excuse me, that trade, they move slow. That technology changes slow. The code changes slow.

1:31:25Our stuff, what we work on, changes next month, right? Next model year. Yeah. And then one model in that brand is different from the next one. This one runs a completely different network, you know, like Completely different AC system, whatever. And you're sitting here going, how the hell am I going to learn all this shit? And then the other people in the other trade, HVAC, are like, yeah, I walk out to the H, you know, this unit on the side of somebody's house and I throw my gauges on it and I throw a charge in and I fix the damn thing or I don't.

1:31:55I know what I need all inside of 2 hours and I swap a board out and hit power. Yeah. And that's it, you know. I remember them telling us that it's like we needed a new AC unit at our shop because, you know, it was tripping a breaker. And they were— they got this estimate for whatever. And I said to them, I said, are you really sure you need a unit?

1:32:17Maybe it's just like the breaker's tripping because the system hasn't run all season. And, you know, after a couple times of tripping the breaker, it'll start— you know, the compressor will free up and it'll start working. Well, shoot, if that's not all it took was just some time being used and it's working again fine. Yep. But they were ready to dump $7,000 into a unit, you know.

1:32:39So I— when we, when we talk about, you know, that the demands that are on us and, and why the culture is this and the— and everybody wants to get paid, you know, crazy amounts of money, $100,000, how do they all want 6 figures? Greedy fucks. This is the very reality, is the commitment that we have to make to our craft I think warrants that kind of pay now, Brian.

1:33:03Oh, for sure. With the technology, you know, any— and I know this may cause some, some grief in the comments at some point, but I feel like even the lube guys deserve a little bit more, you know, especially if they're going to be the ones coming behind us. Like, how do we get them to buy the tooling, you know, and also want to stick around long enough to learn the trade You know, when everything— when you can go to Chick-fil-A or McDonald's and make $24 an hour.

1:33:33Yeah. Or, you know, the, the truck that they pull in to do an oil change on costs $100,000. Yep. And yet we want to pay them $12 to be responsible for that thing getting the oil back in it in the right spot. You know, the Subaru, right? They didn't drain— they drained the trans and filled the engine. Yep. Like, that happens how many times a day, you know, in our industry?

1:33:59Probably a couple times a day somewhere in industry it's happening, right? I worked at a shop where it's happened. It wasn't me, somebody else, you know. And it's like, so we want to pay these guys nothing, but they'd be responsible for $100,000 trucks so they don't blow the engine up and the tires don't fall off. But we say we can't pay them more than $14, $15 an hour.

1:34:24That's, that's, that's BS to me. But it's like, it's these— this thinking that I can't charge for this service. Well, that's just— that again is, is what Cecil calls stinking thinking. You certainly can, right? And are you gonna— is everybody gonna bring it to you if you start charging $300 for an oil change and you do 2 a year on the car?

1:34:47Is everybody going to bring it to you at $300? No, no, they're not. But if eventually more people go, I'm going to start charging $300 because I'm going to pay the person this amount, it's going to get an inspection done, it's a rotate with a, with a balance every time, it's an inspection, it's a good DBI, all this stuff— well, the people that don't want any of that, we're never going to get them anyway, no matter how cheap we make anything more than the oil change.

1:35:14It doesn't matter how cheap we make it, doesn't matter if we give it away for free. We're not— we're just wasting our time. But if we all of a sudden start saying we're gonna charge $300, then at least a lot more people are finally gonna get maybe to $100. I mean, our local Midas is still doing an oil change with synthetic oil up to 5 quarts around me for $70.

1:35:34There's a place around here that's like an independent franchise that's home of the $44.95 oil change. And it's, you know, it's, you know, when you look at it from a business side, all right, why are they doing it? They're getting it, the oil change in there, to bring their car count up so that they could do more vehicle inspections, so that they could sell more stuff.

1:35:57But yeah, how many cars are you— what, like, I would love to see the numbers. Like, what are you really selling off of that $44? The clientele that you're getting off of that, the bumper's falling off. It's probably, you know, the car's probably not in good shape and you're probably giving them a $6,000 estimate and they're going, no, I just want the oil changed.

1:36:14That's right. Um, Midas up here used to be famous. It was $34.95 before synthetic and it was $34.95 would get you a blend and it gets you 2 free wiper blades. Oh man. Think about the cost. It was back then, it was $14 to buy 2 good blades. And I mean good, like good. Like, they wouldn't fall off. They were squeaky and noisy, but they didn't fall off.

1:36:39And people are like, hell, I need a wiper blade and an oil change. That's where I'm going. And it was fantastic marketing for him. But I'm old enough to remember when it was $34.95. So now when I look at it and it's $70 for a synthetic oil change, and they're not giving away wipers yet, but they might this fall, you never know.

1:36:58And I'm sitting here going, it's the same thing. It doesn't matter. And everybody goes, That's the best place to take it. It's the cheapest price. And I go, you do realize that at that price they have to find work on every car that comes in. It's something, something has to be an air filter, cabin filter. There, here's your, here's your fluid samples.

1:37:19Like, look at how this is dirty. Okay. And it's, again, it goes back to our reputation in the industry. People are, that's where a lot of, there's a lack of trust because Every time the car comes in, it's $2,000. It's $2,000. That's, you know, that's why we write everything up. Here's everything, right? I don't care if it's 8 grand, but these are the couple things you need.

1:37:42But just be aware that you're going to have this coming down the pipe. That way they know in the back of their mind that, hey, I got some maintenance I got to do, you know? And if everybody did the same thing, if we were, you know, uniform with that, You know, a lot of that trust, that could change a lot of things in our industry, you know, is what I'm getting at.

1:38:04I mean, I got a guy that works in our company. He's a driver. And like, I looked at his caravan 6 months ago and it was the first time that like he needed an oil change. And I just, and I'm looking at his caravan. I'm like, do you know how in bad a shape this thing is? Nope. Nobody told him because he was going to this shop, and then in town is a reputation for— they're great, they never tried upselling nothing.

1:38:30And I looked at the van because like caravan sliding door fell off, right? The roller's so worn it falls off the track. And so he has me fix it, he has me do an oil change. Well, I rack it, the tie rods are shot, there's broken coil springs, struts are leaking. Uh, engine's puking oil from like every orifice it can. It's a Pentastar.

1:38:52Uh, check engine light on, ABS light on, all this kind of stuff. And I'm like, Bob, do you realize this car is in this bad shape? No, I didn't know. I mean, he's like, I knew about the warning lights, but I didn't know about the oil leaks. Parks on gravel, doesn't even look at it. And I'm sitting there and I'm like, this is the problem I have is because you're taking somebody that everybody raves about because they don't try and upsell you You think that's an advocate for you, that person at that shop?

1:39:20No. Now, are they angry at the dealer or at the industry for everybody that tries to upsell them, that person that runs that shop? Or are they so beaten down from years of trying to make people aware, people going, fuck you, stop trying to sell me something, just change the oil, Bob, that maybe that's what— so I don't know. That's the thing that makes me always the wonder is what were they always like?

1:39:44If they were always like, the customer's always right, I just do what they ask, I never make them aware of anything unless it's going to kill them today. Well, then I'm sorry, you need to get the heck out of the industry. Yep. And I've heard you, you have advocated for, you know, licensing to be in this field. And, you know, in Canada, you have— I've heard that you guys have to go and get special licensing to do different things.

1:40:10And Pennsylvania, to issue stickers, the only thing you really need is your inspection licenses from the state, you know, biannually and every 4 years. But other than that, you don't need a certification, you know. And there's shops that you could tell that there's no certification, you know what I mean? And it's not popular when we start talking about that, where I say— and I say, like, listen, I'm not trying to tell everybody that they should be.

1:40:38I'm just going to give you the heads up that it's very much whether you like it or not going forward, it's going to happen in the States. It's going to be unavoidable. If we're going to have everybody's car out there is going to be able to drive itself, the people that are responsible for letting you drive are going to make it mandatory of some kind of certification to say you can't touch the car unless you have this, you've passed this test.

1:41:05Whatever it may be that says you're competent, put it on. And listen, I have to say it every time. It doesn't fix the problems. It's not like Canada is problem-free because we have licensing. Not at all. First of all, the test is too easy. Too many guys pass it or gals, text period. Canada is not problem-free with the certification thing and the licensing or whatever you want to call it.

1:41:27It's not like it's this utopia of nothing happens. That's bad. The testers, like I was saying, tests are too easy. It doesn't bring up the quality of work that every technician does, right? Like it's still, it's up to the individual, but there is some, like you can't say after they're certified that they don't know that wheels are supposed to be torqued or that they don't know that, you know, uh, TPMS is a thing.

1:42:00Like, we could essentially sit there, and if you didn't have any kind of training, which is what it is, it's mandatory training, they could go out in the workforce and, and they wouldn't be able to say, I just have gunned them on because nobody taught me any better, because they've been taught to. So that's where it becomes— it becomes a choice. If they know they're supposed to do it the one way and they choose not to Now they have no excuse other than it's a choice to not.

1:42:27And that's where the, the lack of training is the only thing I can say that where I'm an advocate of certification or licensing, why I'm an advocate is because there's some basic level of competency and training has to be proven. Whereas it's like, if the wild, wild west of wherever you want to talk about, and it's like we have parts of Canada where it's wide open too, um, they could go work in a shop tomorrow and have no idea what they're doing.

1:42:52None. Or it's even scarier, they could go and say, put a Facebook ad out tomorrow and say, I fix cars. Yep. And I agree with you on something. There, there needs to be some kind of regulation with, with where we're going technology-wise. And also, like, anybody that goes to school or completes that kind of testing or training or whatever you want to call it, at least it shows some willingness to want to be part of the trade, right?

1:43:24Because when you look at some of the other trades, they go in as journeymen and you have to complete a 5-year or, I don't know, I'm making it up, a 4 or 5-year period where you, you want, you, you work as a, you know, an apprentice basically. And then you get your card or whatever they call it and call you a journeyman.

1:43:40So, you know, every other industry has some sort of apprenticeship program where, you know, you have to learn it. And they still have problems, to your point. They still have people that will do some, some stuff that's not up to code or their quality. You're going to have that with any human being. We're fallible. Unless it's a machine doing it, it's not going to be perfect.

1:44:02And even then, you still get problems. So, you know, unless you have a solution to, you know, being perfect there, you know, there's going to be issues No matter what way we do it. But as long as there's some kind of background, I, I agree 100%. You know, especially when we go to hire in Pennsylvania, do you have an inspection license? Because most places are an inspection station, you know what I mean?

1:44:25And the state comes in and they audit our books and make sure we have the right tooling and make sure that we're not stickering cars that shouldn't be. And yeah, you know, and they're really cracking down now. And, um, you know, tools, had the Mid-Atlantic Car Care Alliance. That's, um, we have a meeting tomorrow night because there's legislation in Pennsylvania where they might try to get rid of the safety or emissions program.

1:44:50And that's just gonna cause all kinds of pro— problems for us. You know, that's a lot of bread and butter for a lot of us techs here in Pennsylvania, you know? Yeah. And I've heard though, people talk about like in some states, like Lucas talks about North Carolina, like you can't hardly fail a car for anything. Like, it's documented, but you can't like let the car— like he said, he can't remember the last time that it was an infraction that prevented the car from being allowed to leave.

1:45:18Like, none of it. It's always like you can, you make them aware. Same thing. It can, as long as the brake red low fluid light in the master's not on, perfectly fine. You know, tie rod falling out, you can let them know. Wire braid coming through tires, let them know. You know, all this, what is it, 1/32nd is allowable tread. Like, that's a joke.

1:45:42Like, yeah, I mean, that's where I'll give Pennsylvania some credit. I probably have the numbers backwards and I should know them. It's 2/32 on brake pads for bonded pads, and it's 3/32 on tires, 2 adjacent treads, you know. And then their whole thing is, man, is it the way that the manufacturer put it, you know. So that's where I will give PA credit.

1:46:05Some of the stuff's ridiculous though with the window shading and, and, and different stuff. But the window shading, that's, that's a, I'll say it, that's a police thing. Yeah. That's for their safety. That's a civil thing, you know? Um, you know, the idea that it's like, I can't fail the car because the airbag doesn't work. Like, I think that's crazy that I can't fail the car because of that.

1:46:29Well, if we're basing it off of lights, I think about the Keith Perkins thing with the resistor. I was just gonna— you know what I mean? Like, and you could buy that pack of resistors on Amazon for $12, you know? So if the— it's, it's, it's crazy, you know, with some of the stuff. It was just another online creator, you know, that, that posted something the other day showing how that was a tool.

1:46:54A 12-ohm resistor was a tool. And I'm like, I'm sitting and shaking my head going, okay, I get it what you're trying to say here with your posts, but like, now We had 100 people that didn't know that we could shut off an ABS light with a 12-ohm resistor. And now we're going to have 100 more people now that are going to know how to like cheat it.

1:47:16And here's the thing. It's only going to hurt us when we put that information out there on how people do it, because it just means that the technology is going to come along that is like, you're not going to be able to do it anymore. They're going to up the system so that it's not so easily tricked. And it's progress? I guess so, but it's at the expense of everything.

1:47:36Like, we're talking now, why does a truck cost $100,000? Well, because we're putting all of this safety systems into it, which all needs way more wires and way more network to work. And then they're not— customers not really getting a better engine or transmission, in my opinion, in terms of longevity, maybe in performance or whatever, but certainly it comes at a at a trade-off.

1:48:00But because we keep, you know, ignoring the safety systems that are in place in a car, we just keep making new mousetraps, and it just drives up the cost to everybody. And then it's like we're not fixing the problem. And I guess it's like I keep going back to TPMS because it's like people get mad at me. It's like, I wouldn't fail a car for that.

1:48:23I'm like, If you can't sell the customer $200 worth of replacement sensors, you shouldn't be in the industry. Yep. And people get so mad because it's like, why? I could check my tire pressure myself. I don't need a dummy light. I'm 50 years old. I've been checking. You're the outlier. You're not who this system was designed for, right? Why do they take dipsticks out of engines?

1:48:48Because they know most people can't find it or wouldn't look at it anyway. What's the point in them knowing that they're down a liter of oil if they don't have a liter of oil with them and they're not going to buy it when they go in and buy the gas anyway? What's the point in having a dipstick? None. And it's, you know, to your argument with the TPMS, it's not like it was in the early 2000s when that system came out and it was $200 a sensor.

1:49:11You know what I mean? We're talking about $200, you know. I mean, but most of the time it's not all 4, it's 1. Maybe 2, you know. You got that situation where people are, well, how much for snow tires for my car? Okay, so, uh, you know, $200 for 4 new steel rims, right? And, uh, 4 snows, you know, $600, say, you know, caravan or something like that.

1:49:39So they're like, all of a sudden it's like, for, you know, $200, so $800. Let's make it $1,000 and put 4 sensors in it as well. $50 a sensor, Canadian costs. And, and now we keep the system the way it is, and all of a sudden some asshole— excuse my French— goes, well, I can sell a whole lot more tire packages than that guy down the street because I'm selling them without the TPMS.

1:50:02Yep. And all of a sudden it's like everybody goes— and it drives me crazy. I worked at the dealership where they were throwing You know, they were selling them as a package with the car when they bought it new. Not one of them had a flipping TPMS sensor in it. And everybody's— well, we explained to the customer. Do you know how many customers that came in after it was supposedly explained by the salesman that drove out, turned around, drove back in and go, there's a yellow light on, it was never on before?

1:50:32Oh yeah, that's your snow tire package, doesn't have sensors. Why doesn't it have sensors? Should it— should it not have sensors? Like, this is all stuff that is common sense, and you have the customer asking you. But you mean to tell me because it's $200 they wouldn't have agreed to it? Don't even tell them it's going in there, right? Just the right way to do it is if I'm putting— if I'm putting 4 rims on, I'm putting a $50— call it a valve stem then.

1:51:01Don't even call it a sensor. They ain't gonna know the difference. It's included in the price of the tires, right? But we, we, we screw ourselves up because we break it down. We give them so much information. Sometimes I think it's— they don't— I really know that they don't. A lot of them don't care. They just want to know the price and when is it going to be done.

1:51:20But we say it. I look at my advisor and he says sometimes it's like, okay, so to do the tire pressure, you know, tire package is $800, but if we do sensors, it's $1,000. And I'm telling them, just tell them it's $1,000 every time, or whatever the number is. Just build it in. If they ask you why, why are you more than this shop, your question to them is, oh, are they putting TPMS sensors in?

1:51:43I don't really know. Okay, well, Mrs. Smith, this is why it's, you know, they really should be. That's something, Mrs. Smith, you should be informed about. All of a sudden you sound legit, professional, and informative. And they go, okay, I'm going to give you my money. That's how it works. But instead of us going, oh gee, I better be really honest and tell her that like we could do it this way that's cheaper, but like the right way— like they don't want to know the right way.

1:52:09They want to know the cheap way. Yep. And when's it going to— exactly like you said, what it— when's it going to be done? And I, you know, I'm sure you've witnessed it where you have a service advisor that thinks it's their money. Oh, you know, people come to us for service, and I, you know, I'm going to be 100% honest with you, I am to blame for this as well.

1:52:31But, you know, years ago where I wanted to try to help people save money, well, I'm going to tell you the truth, and this is what it's going to cost. If you ask me if there's another way to do it that might be a little bit cheaper, then I'll tell you, but this is the correct way. And once I got, once I got out of that thinking of thinking like it's my money and just telling people.

1:52:52You'd be surprised, like, people just want it done right. They don't want to have to worry about it, and they don't want to have to keep coming back. That's, that's the other thing. So give all the information, like you're saying, give everything up front. Here, this is what we're going to do. Don't break it down. This is what it's going to cost.

1:53:07If they ask for it, give it to them then. And then they just want their car done. They want it to be reliable, and they don't want any genie lamps on their dash, you know. And I get it. And it, you know, the economy is tough for everybody, both sides of the border, where you are, where I am. It's, it's tough all the way around.

1:53:24I mean, it's not getting easier by the day. It's getting harder. But if you have a customer in front of you and it's like $200 is gonna break them on this example of a, of a snow tire package or a tire package, or even doing 4 tires and you bring it in before you do 4 tires, like That's another— we could talk about that process.

1:53:44What's your process, Brian, when you bring a car in and the customer's there for 4 tires and you look at the TPMS light's on? What do you do? I worked with lots of guys that just assumed the TPMS light was on because they were coming in for 4 tires and it probably had a low tire. My process is I test every sensor.

1:54:05Is it dead or not? It takes 2 seconds. It literally takes too— it takes longer to find the year, make, model, and megahertz than it does to test it. Yeah. So that's my process. But everybody else that I've worked with, for a lot of them is like, I don't care. Like, and I'm like, but let's say you put 4 tires on and you set them to the technical pressure and you go drive it and the light doesn't go out.

1:54:27What do you do then? Well, then I look at it. Why? Why? You got to bring it back in, rack it back up, pull the wheel back off, break the tire back down, program the sensor, balance it. Pre-drive the car. You could have saved yourself 40 minutes. The customer is assuming that the tire light is on because they need tires. The customer doesn't know that there's a battery in there and that the battery has failed.

1:54:51And that's why the sensor doesn't read. And then it's like they get flipping mad if you go, hey, all these sensors are OE. It's my mom's 2013 Equinox. I've replaced all 4 sensors now, right? I did 2 and then I did 2. I should have, as soon as I did the first one, did all 4. I should have done it then, but it went another year before I had to put 2 more in.

1:55:16But it's the same thing. Mom's all of a sudden is calling me one day going like, you just did my oil change last week and now I got a tire light on. And I'm like, I know it wasn't on when I looked at it, and I know that it's— so maybe you got a nail in the tire, Mom. She lives on a a road with a lot of nails?

1:55:31Nope, just the sensor went dead. But my brain immediately goes, I must have made a mistake. But then I have these flipping customers that come in and it's like, oh, the light's been on forever, I don't even know about it. I'm looking, you know, like Moe's tire last week. It just frustrates me because it's something that's such a simple system, and in this industry we have completely disregarded it.

1:55:54It's the same Brian, how many times do you see an advisor tell a customer, oh, it's only an EVAP code, don't worry about it? Yeah. Oh, on the newer Toyotas, man, that EVAP light— so you have to— when you push the door release, it says ready for fueling. If you try, and it's a 30-minute window, well, there's a nozzle that releases the, the vapor so that you could fill the tank, right?

1:56:21Well, If you start filling gas and don't do it in that window, it closes and the fuel goes straight out of the tank. You know what I mean? It's just the EVAP code, right? Until that solenoid fails in the open position. And then you just put $20 worth of fuel on the ground. That's, you know, and look at how many of the Fords, the little Fords, the Escapes and all the, you know, those little turds that have that purge solenoid that sticks open.

1:56:47Yep. Right. And the light's been on forever. Hard start ever. But all of a sudden they fill the tank up, they pull away from the pump and it stalls out and they can't get it to start. It gets pulled away from the pump. You mean to tell me that EVAP then is not a safety-related that can cause— hello? It just did. We just saw it.

1:57:06But for years we used to tell everybody, don't fix it. Don't worry about it. Uh, it doesn't matter if your mechanic isn't very good at diagnosing them because it'll never cause any drivability problem at all. And everybody went, okay. Yeah. And people still have that knowledge, you know? So yeah. What, um, how do we fix the shortage, Brian? Kind of to wrap this up with a really hard question.

1:57:30I mean, I think we talked about it a lot, you know? Um, I don't know what the answer to that is because when you look at the world, I would say the generation coming up now, is probably the closest one to, I would say, my late '80s, early '90s generation where they're outside, you know, when they're getting dirty. Um, so there is some hope for the future, but I think it comes down to us right now, you know what I mean?

1:57:58For when these 18 to 24-year-old kids wander into the shop and, you know, they got a Mustang or whatever and, you know, they're into cars and not be how we were treated, at least some of the experience that I had. I've had good experience and bad, you know, and obviously they got to start from the bottom. Like, and I got a guy right now, like, dude, I know it sucks doing tires, but you're going to get to a point where, you know, that big 20-inch wheel isn't going to jam you up and take you 30 minutes.

1:58:28And then when you get to that point, we can move you on to something else, you know. And then once you get good at that You know, you're going to pick up on something. And speaking for myself, what I try to do is like a broken wire or some kind of testing I'm doing. Like, this is why I'll bring them over. They may not know what I'm doing, but hey, this is what's going on with the car.

1:58:48You helped me push it in this morning, remember? Here, watch this. See, it runs now, right? This is what I did. This is why I did it. And well, you know, they'll ask, you know, what's going to fix it? Well, we got to do XYZ first. You know what I mean? Whatever, whatever the cause and effect is at that point. You know, and I think, I think that's it.

1:59:07I think it's the culture. I, I feel like it's making them feel a part of, to belong in the, like, you know, we all want to be a part of something and we all want to be a part of something good. Yeah. I don't care what anybody says, you know. Um, we harp about the pay, but I really don't think it's the pay.

1:59:23I think it's the environment that we're bringing them into that has to change. Like, and the pay is going to be there. I, I wholeheartedly think that With how tough it is to get people, the money's going to be there. I don't think that's going to be an issue anymore. Even, even as we're starting to see more and more— Brian Pollock just said yesterday, like, they've got these because he's a— they're a big NAPA rep, right?

1:59:45Their shop, Wilco. Well, NAPA through Carlyle's got these basic tool sets for starting up, you know, mechanics. They're putting them on blowout. They're making a bunch of— Brian's shop, they're buying like 3 of them, one for each. And he says, because I'm just gonna hire— like, he's got some people that they're gonna move around, and he's like, I'm just gonna bring them in.

2:00:05And he says, that way I don't have to think about, are they being held up because they don't have the tool? He's like, I'm just gonna provide them with the tools, and that way one obstacle that might be why they can't get the job done in a timely manner is removed. And I think that, like, we all talk about— and they all blurt out all the time in the comments about like, I need to make more money, I need to make more money, flat rate's the devil, and blah blah blah blah blah.

2:00:28I'm not disagreeing with any of that, but it's going to be a lot easier. Some of these young people come in here and it's like they don't have to immediately think about how do I find $5,000 to buy tools to do oil changes, finance my future away, you know. And I— my guys, you know, I tell them like, some stuff you got to buy from Snap-on.

2:00:48Any— some of the electric, you could either buy Milwaukee, buy Snap-on, but I'll take them to Harbor Freight. If you bring $150, I'll match it and you're going to get $300 worth of stuff. Awesome. It may not last forever, but it's going to help get you started. And you're not in my toolbox, which sometimes I don't mind. But there's, there's days where it's like, dude, come on, man.

2:01:08Like, you don't got a fucking hammer, like a dead blow to get that wheel off, you know? Right. But it's like, I come back to the Icon wrenches. Do you really need to spend $1,000 for combination wrench set off the tool truck? No, you don't. No, you can go into Harbor Freight and buy the Icon set for $150, sometimes even less. And I get it, you know, people are gonna be like, it's junk and it's not as good.

2:01:30I never said it was as good, but it gets the job done. Yeah, 100 times. Show me the value of $750 or $850 difference. Show me the value between that tool and that tool. Nobody's been able to show it to me. They can hide the names, you can't. My oh shit bag in the trunk, you know, I keep a oh shit bag in case of flat, whatever.

2:01:54It's all Harbor Freight stuff. Mine too. It works, you know what I mean? I bought the little cheap tire inflator, the breaker bar, the little half-inch gun. That way I could change a tire, whatever, on the side of the road if I need to, you know. Test light, just, just dumb shit, you know. I have all that. Yeah, 100%. I've got enough that if I had to put a water pump, because I used to drive crap forever.

2:02:16I would drive old Jeeps. I had enough tools in there that if I needed to put an alternator, starter, water pump, you know, uh, change a U-joint on the side of the road, something like that, I could do it all. I had all of it with me in the back of that Jeep to do that. And now mine's not breaking down and leaving me.

2:02:34Yeah, I'm still carrying the tools. Yep. Right. And it's not because it's like I think I'm gonna pull over one day and help some woman and we'll be married. She'll fall madly in love. I don't— that ain't why it's there. It's habit to have it, you know, because I would rather like— if, yeah, if I'm gonna drive to Pennsylvania, you're freaking crazy if you think I'm gonna drive to Pennsylvania in a 10-year-old car, which is what my Wrangler is, without some tools in the back.

2:02:59I'd be nuts to, right? Is it— do I— did I have— I've made 2 trips now. Do I need them? Not yet. Not yet, but I'll— well, if you break down and you see some of them black bears I was sending you, you know, it's a good thing you got that tool bag. Yeah, I'm locking myself in the Jeep and letting them do whatever they want to it.

2:03:18I ain't fighting no bear. Like, I'll pet one, but I don't want to fight it. Like, if it's in a bad mood, I don't want to fight it. Like, yeah, I— it's, it's a beautiful part of the, of the country. It really is. Like, I, I was telling you when we met at Tools, like, I love that drive. That's like the highlight of my year is making that trip.

2:03:35I just think it's It's so pretty. Um, is that the next show that I'm gonna see you at, is Tools, or do you think you'll make— so I'm gonna attempt to make— it might be, I don't know if you're gonna do Super Saturday. Um, that's, that's in PA too. I think that's through Mid-Atlantic Arc Airlines, but I'm definitely gonna go to Tools again next year.

2:03:56Okay. Um, when's Super Saturday? Uh, I believe it's in September, but don't hold it to me. I would have to look. So I think it's probably happening before Asta, I bet. Yeah, like early in September. That's tempting. That's tempting. Super Saturday. I've done the Super Saturday before. That's like different vendors and, and stuff like that. That's usually pretty good. Uh, 2025 Super Saturday doesn't have the date.

2:04:27Uh, what date is Super Saturday 2025? 2026. Yeah, it says March 14th, 2026, but I feel like there should be another one coming up because it's always at the end of the— yeah, November 15th through the 26th or 14th through the 15th. So I will be back from— so I'd be back from Vegas because it'll be like ASES in September and then I'll be going to Apex SEMA in November, the first week of November, always my birthday.

2:04:58I'll be in Vegas again turning 51. Like last year I turned 50 in Vegas. So, so after that, within like 11 days, if you're having Super Saturday, I got to figure out how to get back. Hmm. Drive down. Maybe I can always send it to— I can always send it to you just to be for sure on the dates. But if you do come down, it's going to be in the Philadelphia area, man.

2:05:21And check out some sites, you know, but definitely Tools again, because that was, that was awesome. You know, just to get to meet some of the people I watch online. You, yourself, Keith and Brian and Ron and, you know, all them guys. So I'm trying really hard for next year to bring a bunch of Canadians down. I really am, because I think it's like it's a 6-hour drive.

2:05:46Like, yeah. And, you know, the guys that come from Toronto or up around Buffalo area or something like that, right? Like it adds 2 more, but it's still— it's a day. Like it, it's, you know, if you want to take the flight, take the flight. But I mean, I really enjoy the, the drive at this point. Like it's, it's, it's such a nice drive and it's, it's not being 6 hours for a drive to me ain't terrible, you know.

2:06:07No, it's not. I mean, you come down through upstate New York and then through central Pennsylvania and it's just especially that time in the, in the spring when everything's blossoming, it's just, it's awesome. And I mean, even Tanya, I met her and now I've pretty much caught up on every one of her podcasts since. So, you know, she's awesome, man. She's killing it, dude.

2:06:28She's like, she's so good. If you knew how many episodes she already has done, like she has. I'm so proud of my podcast family because like everybody has hit the ground running and been like serious about it, taking it serious and it's cool. But she's like a beast with like she's got so many episodes already in the queue. Like it's— she's just, she's just taking it like this is my second job.

2:06:51This is what the— you know, she said, this is the Lord's plan for me right now. And, you know, she thought she was going to be in a house in Jamaica, but no, the Lord wanted her to have a podcast. The one with Zeb, with the one that she did with Zeb, like, I think I was hooked after that because he was actually in all my classes in tools.

2:07:08And like, I didn't really— I, I knew him from social media, but I didn't know him. And yeah, that dude's awesome. You know, he's awesome. His shop is crazy where he's got to take a golf cart or whatever it is from side to side. I say this with no disrespect to him. He is the smartest redneck I've ever met. Like, dude, it's awesome.

2:07:30You just think he's a good old boy and like, he's so smart. You know, he's, he's functioning at another level, dude. Like, he is. He's legit. Like, and what I love about him is it's like He's never seen a problem that he can't solve, right? Like, he's had cars that, like, they, they, you know, he was talking about a vibration he had in his truck, and, you know, he went through it and finally just gave it back to the customer and said, I, I can't, I can't narrow it down, I can't find it.

2:07:58Like, it's, it's— we tried this, we tried that, tried tires, tried rims, tried, you know, everything he had. But, like, to him, he believes that, like, if, if I need a piece of machinery and I'm talking like a machine, a milling machine, a head machine, he goes and buys it. He's got machinery in his shop that's over 100 years old that he's still using because he comes— so like, to him, it's like, oh, when the crank gear on a Powerstroke, you know, spins, he welds that sucker back together.

2:08:28Like, he's one of the first that figured that out and how to do it. Everybody else is like, yeah, we put an engine in it. Zeb's like, why? I take it out, I weld it. It back in, make it better than it was. Exactly right. Like, you know, he does not accept that there's anything out there that he can't do. He does not accept that.

2:08:45And I, I gotta say, I love it because it's the same Brian, Tommy, Chris, these people in this group chat. That's, that's the mentality they have, you know. They don't believe that there isn't anything they can get through. Now there's a lot of back and forth and leaning on one another to help. It's a beautiful thing. It's going back to that It's a community now.

2:09:05This industry was never a community until the internet came along. I don't care what anybody says. Everybody was competing with the shop next door, around the corner, across the street. We were always competing. There's not as much of that anymore, and there needs to be even less. I— and you, you asked me like, how do you fix a technician shortage? I think in 10 years, if you look back at the state of the industry of where it is now it's going to be because of this.

2:09:30And like I said it early on about the— I don't know if you remember the early Wrenching Network way, way back when it first came out and Loser and all, but like that was the first taste where it felt like, man, there's other techs out there like me, you know what I mean? And then it just grew into everything that we have now, and it's only going to keep going, you know?

2:09:50And that's like you said, the community, the culture, all of it. Eventually the rotten apples are going to weed themselves out because you can only keep that mask on for so long, and you can only fake it for so long, and it's just gonna— you're gonna fall to the wayside. You just— and it's just going to take over. And I think, I think there is a bright future.

2:10:11I think, I think there's a bright future, and for the industry moving forward. I know there is for me, you know. After Tools, I've become re-enthused. I was burned out, you know. I, I was burned out, man. Like, I just, you know, and I went to Tools and it just, it was like a shot of adrenaline, man. And I'm like, let's go.

2:10:31And you and I had never met, but I could see that in you when we were there. You know what I mean? Like, I got that vibe from you right away where you were like really enthused about being there. And then you were really excited about how you were feeling like the training you were getting and all that kind of stuff. And I mean, that was, that was the key.

2:10:50Meeting you is one of the key takeaways for me, of being able to, to be there and meet you. Because it's like, you know, you meet— so yeah, every show you go to, you meet cool people. But it's like when you, you, you meet that person that you know they came away from the event reinvigorated, recharged, mo— you know, fired up, motivated.

2:11:10That's, that's what it's all about. It isn't about the classroom thing. It's not about like the The textbook that you came home from the class with, like, that's all important stuff. But it's that fire that it's like, I want to fix this. I want to be better. That's what we do it all for, man. And that's why— that's why I just keep telling everybody, like, I know it seems expensive.

2:11:33You know what it costs to go to Tools, you know? You drove in every morning, right? Yeah. Yeah. Like, you didn't stay at the lodge. You drove in every morning and drove home every night. They were— they were long days, man. And I was tired, but it was, it was awesome, you know? Yeah. Well, this year, you know, we'll try and get you so that you don't have to make such a long drive.

2:11:53You can just— I'm staying next year. I'll tell you that. Yeah, I'm staying next year because, you know, it's that networking thing. Like, you miss it, right? Like, you're there for the classes, but it's that, that being able to network till 9 or 10:00 at night or midnight or whatever, right? Yeah. You know, when you miss that, you're missing a big part of what really the magic is about these shows.

2:12:15But, uh, I want to thank you for being here with me. Um, you know, thank you for the time. I kept enough of your time. Oh, it's all good, man. I appreciate you having me on. Oh dude, I— listen, we'll do this again. Like, for sure. I genuinely enjoy talking to you whenever we do. And I mean, you know, it's, it's one of those things where it's like we need more of your people with your kind of attitude and your kind of perseverance and your, you know, You've been through it and you're— and you still love what you do and you're still making your dad proud.

2:12:45And I mean, like, that's, that's what this is about, you know. It's, it's being able to say, I know some days are gonna be tough, but I love what I do and I want to be able to, you know, have more good days than bad. When we decide that we're gonna have more good days than bad days, we just inherently do. You know, it's as simple as that.

2:13:08That's the secret sauce, is just decide the thing isn't going to beat you and just decide that today is going to be a good day, and it will be a good day. I guarantee you, you know, it's just a— it's a mindset. Don't accept that you can't do it. Don't tell yourself that you, you're at a disadvantage. Don't tell yourself that the car can beat you.

2:13:28Decide that you're going to beat it, and then if you can't Don't kill yourself about it because you and I will meet a ton of techs in our life. None of them are perfect. The smartest guys I know have lists and share stories of cars that beat them. It's just how it is. Sometimes it doesn't line up and it has to be the next person is the one that's going to unlock the riddle, whatever that may be.

2:13:53For whatever reason, they're able to that you weren't. Don't beat yourself up over it. You know, continue to improve and continue to pour into yourself, and you will have more good days than bad, you know. So I want to thank you for being here. The family at TechMetric and the family at LaunchTech, thank you for providing me with what I'm able to do here.

2:14:15Without you guys, I wouldn't be able to do this. And I mean, I, I don't thank you guys enough, but you know, you guys make this so so possible. I'm able to give so much back because of what you guys give me, and I want to thank you for that. And Brian, I can't wait to see you. We'll try then, I guess, to get to Super Saturday, you know.

2:14:33Shoot me the info on that. People, spots are quickly filling up for Asta, which is, you know, we're sitting here on the 26th of July, so you're, you know, you're 2 months away from Asta. So if you're on the fence get off the fence and make your, make your reservations to be at ASTA. I'll see you there. The next time I'll see anybody after ASTA will be at, you know, SEMA and Apex in Las Vegas, which is always a great time.

2:15:02You know, Brian, we'll have to get you there one time. Oh, for sure, for sure. So thank you, everything. Thank you, Brian. I appreciate you, man. Same, brother. And, uh, yeah, safe travels, and I look forward to Seeing you again, man. Thanks for having me on, bro. Let me know what's going on with that Jeep, okay, in a day or two. Oh yeah, for sure.

2:15:21That's, that's first thing tomorrow morning. I'm waiting to hear, man. Thank you. Yep. I love you all. We'll talk to you soon. Hey, if you could do me a favor real quick and like, comment on, and share this episode, I'd really appreciate it. And please, most importantly, set the podcast to automatically download every Tuesday morning. As always, I'd like to thank our amazing guests for their perspectives and expertise, and I hope that you'll please join us again next week on this journey of change.

2:15:50Thank you to my partners in the ASAR Group and to the Changing the Industry podcast. Remember what I always say, in this industry, you get what you pay for. Here's hoping everyone finds their missing 10mm, and we'll see you all again next time.