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Changing the Industry PodcastMarch 16, 2026 · 58 min

Episode 260 - Navigating Family Legacy and Change in the Automotive Business With Jackie & Darryl Beech

Shop ManagementLeadership & Culture

With Darryl Beech, Jackie Beech

Now playing — Changing the Industry Podcast

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About this episode

Don't get to the end of this year wishing you had taken action to change your business and your life.Click here to schedule a free…

Key takeaways

  • —Implementing standard operating procedures is crucial for business sustainability.
  • —Family businesses face unique challenges, especially during transitions.
  • —Effective communication and trust are key to maintaining customer relationships.
  • —Investing in management training can prepare the next generation for leadership.
  • —Work-life balance is essential for long-term success and personal well-being.

Frequently asked

What should I do to prepare my business for a transition?
It's important to establish clear processes and procedures, and invest in management training for the next generation to ensure a smooth transition.
How can I maintain customer relationships during a leadership change?
Focus on building strong connections with your existing customers and communicate openly about the changes to reassure them of continued service.
What are some common challenges faced by family-owned businesses?
Family businesses often struggle with balancing personal relationships and business decisions, especially during times of transition or crisis.
▸Full transcript

Hey folks, David here, and I'd like to thank you for joining us for the Changing the Industry podcast. Lucas and I started this podcast with the goal of capturing the frank and open conversations you typically have at industry events. Those conversations cover the challenges we face in our business and lives, as well as difficult repairs, new products and services, and everything in between.

We hoped that these recordings would spur our listeners to enact the change they'd like to see in their own lives and businesses. That's also why we've partnered with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence. My first management class was with Cecil Bullard, and his genuine passion for helping others in an honest and ethical manner permeates his entire organization. And if you need some of the Institute's help, they have a special offer for our listeners.

Click the link in the show notes and get signed up for a free business analysis. They'll go over your current situation and give you advice on your next steps. And they have everything from free resources and online classes to peer groups, one-on-one coaching, and specific help for MSOs. So don't miss out on this great offer. Click the link in the show notes.

And now on to the podcast. Radio is a hard business. Okay, I'm just telling you, my family owned two radio stations and got rid of them. And is there anything your family didn't own? No, not at this point. There's lots of things my family owned that they never made any money with. Oh, okay. Yeah, it's hard to make any money on radio.

We were part of a— they were part of a small group, right? So not one of the big conglomerates. And it was pretty tight on the budget, which I was feeling as well after a while. Yeah, for sure. And like the entire organization is pushed in. And I think what ends up happening if you watch radio, they are so pushed on budget that they have to squeeze everybody.

They have to get every ad revenue sale they can get. They have to make it work. And if they don't get it, man, like the reason they put so much pressure on the employees is because if they don't get it, buddy, they're done. They're out of money. That's it. There is no option. It's viral too. People see that you don't do it and they don't want to work with you anymore.

Yeah, 100%. You got to keep it moving up. Yeah, it's rough. Automotive, I think it does. It does. And so many of those people, right? So many of the disc jockeys that I know, Braxton, one of our producers, worked for the radio station. I'll never forget when Braxton and I met. I'm not very good at paying my bills. Usually it's not because I don't have money.

It's usually because I am in the situation of I forgot to pay the bill and I've got a lot of stuff going on and I didn't realize that I hadn't paid the bill kind of deal, right? And so they always have to send somebody out here to get money for the bill. And little Braxton comes to the front door of my shop and he is trembling, right?

Like, the kid is shaking. He's developed a lot over the years, but like, he was coming to collect money, and, and I honestly sat down with him and said, dude, I don't know that there's a future in radio. Like, you, you want to do this very badly, but I'll be honest, I just don't see a future in it. The market's changing so fast.

The people you work for, um, the man who owns the company is very old. Daughter's going to take it over. They have a very different perspective of what radio is. This may not be what you think it is a few years down the road. And then he went to work for the biggest Christian station on the East Coast, 106.9 The Light, which is Billy Graham's station, right?

And he went to work for them. And then about a year and a half later, he called me and said, hey, I want to come work for you guys with the podcast. And so now he's one of the producers. So Well guys, Darrell, Jackie, introduce yourselves. Darrell Beach, um, in my 60s, on my sundowning years in the automotive industry, trying to work my way out of it, pass it off to the next generation, um, trying to get the most I can and enjoy it.

Had a pretty good ride at it. Uh, so lucky to be happy and healthy at this point and Glad to have my daughter back in the business. That's awesome, man. That's awesome. Jackie, I know we've heard a little bit of your story. Why don't you tell us who you are and tell us a little more? Well, I'm Darrell's daughter. I grew up in the business.

They started it back in 1990. So I mean, I really, I was 2, right? I really grew up around it. I did not have a lot of interest in it growing up. I was interested in other things, a lot of music things. Things like that. And I graduated, went to Clemson for communication. I got a really good education and then I moved back here to do radio.

And then it's, you know, radio being the state of what it is like, I think there will always be the need for community and there's always the need for that. But it existing is what it was. It just wasn't there for me by the time I got there. Right. So I I ended up, uh, selling shoes for a little while. And then, um, and around, uh, 2013, um, Daryl ran the business with my mother.

Um, she, um, took terminally ill. And so for about a year and a half, um, we took care of her together with the business. Um, okay. And so that was a really hard time. It was a lot of learning for me because I, you know, I, I tried to stay away from the business until that But, um, I, I went in there out of necessity and kind of took over her duties at that time, which was the lot of the behind the desk, um, keeping, um, contact with customers, scheduling appointments, things like that.

Um, and that's where I started stepping in more and learning more about just the automotive. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. And, and, you know, Darrell, to have somebody to step in and help like that is, is a big thing, right? And it sounds like there's a lot of structure. Right? Because one of the things that we dealt with— and everybody knows the story— but like, when my mom got terminally ill, um, and she passed away, uh, year before last, when, when she got terminally ill, like, my dad needed to be there for her.

Like, that was what was important to him. And they had spent their life working in that business, right? I mean, from the time they got married, they were working in the business, doing the thing, right? They were married for 57 years. And it's, it's disappointing how everything turned out. But in our case, the person who was supposed to be there taking care of the business and doing what was best for mom and dad, they didn't have their best interest in mind.

They didn't have the family business's best interest in mind. So to have somebody that you can trust and to be there with them and see they're doing the right thing, man, that's got to be— especially as a dad, that's got to be a really good feeling, right? It was. It really was. Good news is, I mean, we had had enough training. We're ATI members.

Okay. We had completed 90% of the program when my wife fell ill, which meant that we had restructured the business to where we had processes and procedures in place, which made it easier for Jackie to move in. And it's definitely recommendable. You know, 100% anybody that's in business, of any business, to set up standard operating procedures. Uh, and that also meant that we had support.

We had additional outside training we could send her to, to bring her up to what she needed to know in the automotive industry. And then I will credit the fact that we had the management training behind us and we had a business structured the way it was to us being able to allow me the freedom for 2 years to take care of my wife.

Yes. Without bankrupting myself. Amen. Amen. Right there. The thing that happens to a lot of people is, yeah, yeah, they don't have those systems and structures in place to support themselves if they need to step away. Yeah, you're, you're exactly right. And that, that is— Lucas and I have been telling you about PartsTech for a while now. And how it gives you access to unlimited parts and tire vendors and direct integration with over 35 shop management systems.

And now they've just launched a new referral program. All you have to do is open your PartsTech account, go to my shop, and click on the rewards tab. There you'll find your referral URL, which you can share via email, text message, or on your social media. If your referral signs up for a new account and places 5 orders in the first 30 days, PartsTech will send you a $100 gift card.

That's it, nothing else is needed. Your referrals can get you $100 just for using PartsTech, which by the way is absolutely free to get started with. So if you're using PartsTech already, start sharing that referral link. And if you haven't signed up for PartsTech yet, what are you waiting for? Click on the link in the description or go to partstech.com/podcast. That's partstech.com/podcast.

Hey, one more thing. If you find out that your shop management system doesn't integrate with PartsTech, it's time to upgrade. David and I use what we believe to be the very best system on the market, Shopware. With unmatched features like Parts GP Optimizer and DVX, which is their digital vehicle experience, Shopware really is way more than just a shop management software. With it, you'll be able to create an immersive and interactive experience for your client.

Setting you apart from everyone else using run-of-the-mill software. Are you ready to upgrade? Click the link in the show notes to get started. Exactly where the family business ended up. And, and my dad was a very, very smart man, but he always ran the, the business on his back, right? Every decision he made it, everything that came up, he didn't need processes, policies, and procedures because everything went through him.

And that sounds well great and good, And we all tell ourselves, it'll be fine. I don't need to spend all the time and energy to do this stuff. Now we'd had discussions. This is not running like a business. There's something wrong. Dad, I'm worried about this thing. And that was right as my mom, we found out she was sick. There was some stuff going on.

And I told him, I said, dude, I'm nervous about this. Now I'm a hothead, right? So I approached it with a little bit of aggression. I approached it, you know, a little louder than I should have. And I feel like if I had approached a little bit differently, maybe I could have had more traction and we, we could have done something better.

But I'll just tell you that now we're looking at about $3.5 million worth of tax debt from the past 7 years that somebody else didn't pay, and $140,000 a month in credit card spend that, um, 1,500 Amazon packages a month went somewhere. They didn't come here, right? And so there were a lot of things that happened. There was a lot of, of, pressure put on my parents.

And a lot of internet cable, Lucas. Yeah, right. I mean, we just yesterday, we took about— we— the first picture was 100 pounds. We actually weighed how much ethernet cable we took out of the family business that literally made circles back to itself, and it was about 250 pounds of ethernet cable and hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of equipment that wasn't even hooked up that's just sitting out here on shelves.

And it was this concept of, I mean, all you can call it is mismanagement, right? At the end of the day, all you can call it is mismanagement. And it's because there was no structure. It's because the books weren't clean. It's because there were no processes, policies, and procedures. And Dad says, why would somebody do that? And I said, Dad, because you didn't tell them not to.

And he said, son, I shouldn't have to tell them not to. And I'm like, Dad, I know you're right. You shouldn't have to tell them not to, but you do have to tell them not to, right? Like, if they don't know, they don't know. You can't expect them to know. You can't expect them to have your experiences, been through what you've been through.

They don't know what they don't know. Yeah. So they don't even know what to ask you. 100%. And it's like, you know, the shop, yes, of course I've got a P&L and I've got cash flow statements and I can pull those up and I can say I'm not supposed to spend more than 10% here and this many percent there. Now, of course I don't follow my own like recommendations and advice, but if, if there was structure to the family business, We wouldn't be here.

Right. And so it sounds like you had enough training and enough structure that it was seamless. Jackie, did that make it easier for you? Oh, it did. Yeah. Well, we're also blessed that we lived in a time where the technology aided us. Yeah. Uh, you know, we were able to reach out to remote systems to where if she had an estimate or a problem she was trying to deal with, I could actually just turn around and log in from wherever I was on my phone and look at what she's looking at and give her a, for sure, or a direction to go.

And it makes it a lot easier instead of like you, you ran into where you have somebody else that's having to make these decisions and you're completely out of the loop. So you have to trust what they're doing. At least with the technology today, that employee can reach out and say, hey, you know, I need some help with this. What do you think I should do?

Or these numbers don't look right, or I just did this. Do I need to do this again? You know, we just paid this. Did we really pay it? Can you check? Yes. Uh, you, you are so right. And with the shop, that has been a lifesaver for me because I've had to dedicate all my time to cleaning that mess up. Right. My dad's 70-some years old and it, it's really tough because they put all this technology in and he doesn't know how to use any of the technology up there..

And so I, my team down here, I can support them remotely and do the things that I need to do remotely to help them while also making sure we don't lose that up there. And so that has been huge for us. And I, I, that man, if it wasn't for Shopware, I'd be in a world of hurt right now because to be able to do that, and I, I don't think a lot of people experienced the non, like some of our listeners did, but very few of them have experienced that non, web-based SMS.

And Darrell, if you've been in business that long, I know you used to use the pen and paper method and then you went to the one that was, you know, a database on the computer and you're like, this sucks. I can't even see this anywhere else. We were actually computerized from day one. We bought an existing business. Really? And when we knew we were headed for the automotive industry, I broke out a program for my Tandy 1000 and we set up an operating system to run the business in.

I've got pictures of her sitting on my lap in the back bedroom while I was setting the software up. That is phenomenal, dude. That's awesome. Yeah. And it, uh, you know, I've always been a techno geek. My background is I'm an ex-Navy nuclear power electrician. So very cool. I'm, I was an early adopter at everything. I mean, I've had computers all the way back into the '70s.

So it was just a natural to look at what the automotive business was gonna need. And reach out for what was available, which trust me, back in 1989 and '90 was not much. Yeah, for sure. Point of sale systems that were defined for a business like Shopware just didn't exist. You had to take a generic package and then fine-tune it to do what you needed to do or compromise it to where you could get the information and the tracking you needed out of it.

But, uh, along the way you learn a lot as far as software programming. I've run Lotus, I've run you name any database, dBASE, and a lot of the others that we've had to use for tracking over the years. You're giving me flashbacks of AS/400. I worked with AS/400 for a little bit, and I don't ever, ever want to experience anything like that ever again.

It was terrible. I don't know what you're talking about, dude. AS/400 was the best. I got so fast at 10-keying it, like, I didn't have to look at the screen. I knew exactly, like, the sequence of numbers I needed to get to to get exactly where I needed to go. Let me just explain that only On the user side, AS/400 was okay.

On the IT side, AS/400 made you question all of your life choices. It was miserable. That's only when you wanted to change it. Yeah. If it worked, leave it alone. Until you've worked for a hospital that thinks we need to— Yeah. Good news is technology moves fast. Yes. So you're not there very long. Yeah, absolutely. I, you know, Darryl, I, you said Navy nuclear electrician, I just want to point out that David really hates it when people say things like that because I will spend all day in the Stationary Engineers Group on Facebook.

I asked for the hotel rooms where I can see the cooling towers on the mechanical equipment because that's my kind of thing, right? I love— He's not that interested in technology. He's interested in the disaster behind it. He's like, did you know in 1984 this blew up over here and then this caused this thing? I want to sit next to the thing that might blow up, please.

Yes, exactly. I want to see it. I want to understand how it works and why it does what it does. That's just how my mind works, right? That's how I ended up in automotive, because my mind needs these puzzles to solve. And so observing the puzzles and watching the puzzles and understanding how and why they do what they do is fascinating to me.

David, David doesn't want to hear another word about it. Okay? You have no idea. In a few years, I might find that to be my next rabbit hole. I have no idea. You never know. I don't think so. Failure mode analysis happens on an hourly basis with us. I mean, it's just something you do, you know, you're forensically going through what's showing up at your door to identify what happened to it.

You know, was this a user involved? Was this, you know, just an act of God? Was this environmental? How did this happen? And I think we've been in business so long because a lot of times we can educate our customers. We understand the cars well enough to educate our customers as to what's happening in terms that they can understand. Yes. And then we can also engineer solutions for them so they don't reoccur as often.

We're always finding that better part, that better vendor, the better solution, the faster solution., you know, something that works out better for the customer. And technology has definitely sped that up to a degree, but we are finding that we're spending a lot more time researching now than we actually are with our hands under the hood. Yep. 100%. David, do you take that approach to your repairs?

That is our approach to repairs. And the— I asked that because we were, One of the things we were talking about in the previous recording was the approach to the repair is bottlenecking Lucas, where he's running a very high average repair order. I do too. We run over $1,000 our repair order, and we are sticklers about the part that we use and the repair process.

Because we want the car in better shape than how it came in. I mean, even before it broke down, right? Better than, than original. We want to repair the entire system. And so it's not— it's fine that you can get a ball joint for a lower control arm on a Dodge Ram truck. They're available. The factory replacement, though, is an entire control arm.

And the reason that is, is because that ball joint, if you take it out and press a new one in from the aftermarket, will last a year. And then that mother effer will start to flop around and you'll have to replace it again. Now, most of these shops offer a 1-year warranty. I don't. And so we had to then figure out, hey, why are these failing?

Oh, turns out that these should be whole control arms. Yeah, we're not doing anything wrong in the installation process. It's that these control arms were designed to be replaced as units. And so now we do entire control arms. So the repair is $2,500 instead of $800. We don't see a lot of shops like that. Most shops are like, okay, let's get the car out the door, turn the bay, get the money at the door.

But when you say what you just said, That's what triggers in my mind going, yeah, we take the exact same approach because we do want to analyze the failure. We want to figure out. Yeah, we're, we're definitely more of a holistic shop. When a vehicle comes in the first time, it's like walking into a new doctor that's never seen you. They tend to poke and prod everything.

They want to get a full background in history and, you know, find out how you've been living life. And we do the same thing with the cars and the, the, the reasoning to the customer is the better we know your vehicle, the better we know your use of it, the better we can make educated recommendations in how you need to treat or maintain the car and what level of maintenance you need to maintain to get what your desire is.

Whether you're looking for speed, performance, ultimate reliability, you know, understand there's trade-offs in any one of those that you pick. And it allows us to better fit their need, better fill their need. Sometimes it's not the easiest thing to do because you end up trying to read people a lot. 35, 40 years. We're finally getting into a good roll and here comes Lucas interrupting the episode.

Folks, now you know exactly why I hire Shop Marketing Pros to do my shop marketing. It's that I am spastic and all over the place and I lack consistency. But here's the thing. That doesn't work in marketing. You see, marketing takes 30, 60, sometimes 90 days to be effective, and I was all over the place with my marketing. There was no consistency at all.

Caused these waves in my business because I was so inconsistent. And that's why I am so happy to refer Shop Marketing Pros. They bring consistency. They are true professionals. I'm going to encourage you, go down to the link below and get your free digital marketing inspection. Just like we do digital vehicle evaluations for automobiles, they're doing the same thing about your marketing, and they will help you get your business turned around.

Dealing with people, it's made it a little easier, and Jackie can tell you, sometimes I can tell when they walk in the door what the outcome of the conversation is. Yeah, just turn around. Could you just walk back out, please? Yeah, but you learn tactics for satisfying customers as best possible and understanding when you can't. Yeah. And that doesn't mean that we're elitists.

Jackie can tell you our customer base ranges from people that are in poverty, fixed income, seniors, all the way through to 1%ers. And it's a matter of understanding what their desires and what their goal is and what their pain level is. To, you know, to achieve that. And then we go through and, and tailor as best possible. It does have challenges though.

I, so here, here's my question for you, and, and this is kind of a dual question, Darrell. I wanna start with you though, because for me, this process very much can become an addiction, right? I want to get to the answer, right? I need the answer. I wanna understand why it happened. I want to understand how it happened. That's how my mind works.

And so I even get emails and in my head, my head begins to run through how the system works and why the system did what it did. And how did we end up here? What did you do? How did we get to this point? And then here's what the failure was and this is what caused the failure. Like, I just go down this rabbit hole and I love that.

And but it can be an addiction for me because I really enjoy that process. That's a lot. For somebody else to take over. Do you feel like it's reasonable to expect that from Jackie? And Jackie, do you feel like that's— I mean, that feels like big shoes to fill, right? And I'm looking at my business kind of trying to back myself out of it right now for that very reason, because I'm looking at my staff saying, maybe this is unreasonable for you guys to put this level of attention to detail that I do, because I'm sitting at home at 1 AM with diagrams up on the screen trying to understand how it works based on

an email somebody sent me about, you know, I did this and now a fault light's on. What's up with that? You know? So is that reasonable though? Yeah, I think, going back to the history that, you know, the fact that I had to step out of the business in 2012, 2013, and Jackie had to step in to fill those shoes, she can tell you that probably 80% of the phone calls is, Is Darrell there?

Can I talk to him? Yeah. Yeah. Still at least half of the phone calls. The one thing that came from that experience was it weaned a lot of my customers from having to talk to me directly. They may ask now, but they will accept if someone else has to deal with them. And that really was a good step. In the direction we're going.

We're currently— I have a plan of trying to be out of my business by the time I'm 65 years old, consultant basis. Somebody else is going to be running it, uh, which is why we're restructuring for that. And one of the things we've already determined is that it cannot operate the way it operates now. We are going to have to change the way it operates to make sure that the employees' needs are still met.

And then we taper off the customers that need that personalized handholding because again, there's not going to be somebody there that's going to give them that, that personal service that they've grown to expect. And we don't want to disappoint them. We just need to make them understand, you know, there's an exit going on here and at some point, you know, we may have to part ways.

So, you know, that, that resonates. Very loudly with me because I went through the exact same thing. I had to back away. And I'm curious, was there a point— you've been doing this a lot longer than I have, and it may be that when you hired ATI and brought that in, was there a point where you looked at this and said, this is not sustainable?

Because I definitely had a point where it was like, I feel like all of these people are always coming at me. I couldn't go to Walmart. People were stopping me. Hey, my truck did this, my car did this, this happened, that happened. And I had that reputation for being that guy. My wife finally came to me and she's like, Lucas, like, we can't keep doing this.

This— people are knocking on our door at midnight and, you know, there's people stopping us in Walmart. It takes 2 hours to do a shopping trip because somebody wants to talk about their car and you'll engage them and talk to them. We have to have a healthy work-life balance here and this is not it. Did you ever encounter that? When my wife was part of the business, we were pretty much fully involved and we were running several automotive clubs at the same time doing newsletters.

And these are back in the cut and paste days. Yeah. So we're talking about a significant amount of our time was going toward those. We looked at them partially as soft marketing, but also it was a way for us to develop a social network. Out of the shop. And there were certain events that I was not the happiest to attend because, as you said, you don't get to see the cars.

You don't really get to talk to the new people you'd like to meet because you're being dragged aside by everybody that already knows you that has a problem. Yeah. And, uh, that, that does— there are certain events that we would avoid simply because it was a large social drain and an emotional drain. Yes. You don't like disappointing people and it's easier to just not be there.

Yeah, 100%. 100%. I just want to point something out real quick. Darryl, you're getting up there in age. I don't call you old, but— What, 39 is old? Yes, exactly. I see what he did there. That's hilarious. I did the, the amount of like, you have random knowledge. Like, I don't know. I don't think you understand the, the advantage, Jackie, that you have.

Like your dad's been there, done that kind of thing. Right. So like he survived 90 all the way to now. Right. So it was a long time. And That, that kind of guerrilla marketing that we're putting together newsletters and we're setting up auto clubs with our name attached to it, that's like, that's like old school ground level guerrilla marketing that they teach in textbooks.

He was just doing it because that's what we needed to do to drum up his— but like, you, you get these new guys, this is why we get so frustrated with these like idiot tech texted, are you gonna go open a shop? It's like, dude, you have no idea the ocean of knowledge you don't have. Yes. Like you think, yeah, you're just gonna work on cars and be fine.

It's whatever. Like you have no idea. And it's just stuff like he says randomly. He just said it randomly. He just said it like, I'm just talking and just, it's just a story that came out and it's like, whoa, we could teach a course on just that. Just like, how did you set it up? Where did you do it? How, like, who did you talk to?

Who did you send it out to? You can do an entire course on just the random newsletters and you think, well, that's outdated. It's not 100%. You could start doing it right now, tomorrow, ignore Facebook and stuff like that and do some ground level guerrilla marketing and stuff like that and be perfectly successful at it. Like that is that it's going to jump off real quick though.

And it's a slow start. It's always a slow start on stuff like that. And people don't understand the amount of work that it takes to really pick something up off the ground. Yeah. Oh, 100%. But that's the, that's the point though. Like, yeah, like you're not gonna— you're also not dropping $10,000 a month into Google Ads. You see what I'm saying? Like, it's which one are you gonna take?

Like, I'm a big, I'm a big fan of BNI. And, uh, like, I typically serve as the mentor. So when somebody comes in, like, I try to guide them in how to be successful in BNI. I've been doing that for almost 10 years. And I tell them like, look, you have a choice here. You're going to put in an hour and a half to 2 hours a week of your time in and then spend about $1,000 a year to be in this and get continuous business.

Or you're going to spend $10,000 a month on Google Ads. It's like, would you have that kind of cash to dump into Google Ads? Content has always been king. So if you can get in front of people. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. And then, you know, like, they're starting to advocate some of that towards online and like reviews and stuff like that. And people are looking at reviews and online stuff almost as equal as— and I get that, but that costs a lot of money.

And, and yeah, if you're doing enough revenue that you can just go, hey, I'm just gonna write the check, deal with it, I'm all for that. But when you're brand new, and that's what I'm saying, like, these guys start out, these shops and they, they have no idea the grind. Like, buy a shop, take over a shop that's already established, been in business 46 years.

Like, jump on that. Don't start from scratch. You have any idea the amount of time and effort you're gonna have to put in? Yeah, just to build the audience to be able to market to and be effective at it. You have— you don't know, like, you don't— do you know how to put together a newsletter? No, I've never done it before. There you go.

So you got to learn all that skill first. And then come to the table just to get a car in to then be able to work on the car, and maybe you'll make some money on the car. Idiots. Sorry, that was my rant. They don't know what they don't know. You're exactly right. I try to tell them, but they don't listen. I— my senior technician has been with me over 20 years, and I asked him the other day— we just signed back up for management training for doing this transition, which also includes technical training.

To where we can hone everybody's skills a little better. So we turned around and, and I, I asked him, it's like, I'm gonna sign you up for technical training. I said, you know, I have no problem signing you up for the management training program also. Would you like to sign up for those? Completely voluntary, free to him, doesn't matter, you know? And he looked at me and he says, no, I don't want to have anything to do with people.

Right. He's, he's been there. He's tried to do side work at his house on custom jobs and stuff, and he's had to deal with people. He doesn't have the temperament and he knows it. He's a really great guy, you know, he's a fantastic person, he's a fantastic mechanic, but he doesn't have tolerance for people that just are being idiots. Yeah. And you know, like that, at the end of the day, that's— if you're a technician, you need to take a step back and you need to look at it and go, am I really good at working on cars, or do I really enjoy talking to the people around me while I'm working on cars?

And I get way too distracted to try to sit there and just focus in on working on cars. And I want to go do anything but work on the car, where I know plenty of people that can just hone in and get the work done. And that's what they like to do. They like to see the fixed thing. They like to start with something broken, finish with something fixed.

And they derive a lot of satisfaction from that. But if you're deriving satisfaction from that, that's not what you're going to get from running a business. That's not the business. The business is talking to customers and petting the dogs and kissing the babies, going out into the community and all that nonsense. That's what you're signing up for. It's not to fix the cars.

So if you're really good at fixing cars, go fix the cars. We need you. Amen. Absolutely. Jackie? Oh, go ahead. I'm sorry. We have seen that. I learned the hard way probably 25 years ago that I couldn't be productive working on cars. Too many interruptions in the business. So at some point you do have to figure out that you have to transition.

Uh, and I've watched other shop owners that have done the smart thing. They own the shop. They hire people to deal with the people. They're like you're saying, David, they want to hone in on that car. They love repairing the cars. They just don't want to deal with the business. So you hire somebody to do that. You just have to figure out where you're gonna be the most productive use to your business.

Yeah, for sure. Jackie, I have a question for you that this feels like really big shoes to fill, right? Um, it's a big deal. And, and as somebody who's like, I, I'll be completely honest, I had no intentions. I always thought the other person involved was gonna take over the family business. I had no want, desire, need anything. And then it was like, hey, this legacy that has been in this family since 1956 is getting ready to be no more.

And that was like heavy for me. That bothered me. And I saw the impact it had on my dad. I saw how much it hurt him. And I was like, well, it ain't— this has gotta happen, right? And so I said, I'll take it on with this and do everything else too. And I also recognize, like, when I didn't care as much, it didn't really seem like it would be that big of a deal to step in.

But then when I stepped in and it was in a mess and I realized how important it was to him and I realized how important it was to the family that it got saved, it felt a whole lot heavier and it felt like a lot more to, to carry this tradition on and carry this honor on. Felt like an honor to have the ability to do it, but it also felt heavy.

How do you feel in this transition? So I recognize that there's a lot of people that are just— they're Darrell's people. And when he ultimately decides to not be there, I'm going to do my best to connect with them and keep going with them. But some of them are going to fall off. I think that's just going to be an inevitable thing.

But I think the important thing is for me to make sure that the relationships that we have with the people that we expect to stay, we need to make sure those are just golden. Um, you know, those people have no reason to go anywhere else. They, you know, they're going to stay with us. They, they don't need to see this transition as the— in the business as anything as like instability or anything like that, because, you know, we don't want them to have that feeling.

So, um, I, I think that's going to be a lot of my focus focus is on, you know, who are my people that we're working with right now that I can keep. And, um, I, you know, we have another technician that's, um, interested in, in more of the management stuff as well. And so, you know, who are his people? Who can we keep that, you know, he can work with?

And then just kind of build and grow from there, because that, that attrition naturally happens anyway, especially, um, we work on smaller cars. Some of our customers are just old and they die. Um, it happens. And so like there is always that natural attrition and you're always looking to find new customers. Generally, we have the advantage of being at a point where actually in this year we had so much backlog that we decided 2026 was a no new customers year.

Oh, wow. We have to catch up and we have to, you know, do right by the customers that we have. Yeah. 35 years is a long time to build a customer base. Space. For sure, for sure. Absolutely. And I, I think that so many of us are in that same situation, right? Is that, that we know we have this attrition to deal with.

I, I'm going through some attrition here in the shop. The guys who wanted to come in and talk to me— and, and I'm sure you see this— like, the ones that I think about are the ones that need that special attention. And Darryl, you know exactly what I'm talking about. They want to talk to me, they're interested in you know, my very complex analysis of the vehicle.

They want that personal connection with exactly what's happening, how we're going to do this. They know that I can work some magic on like, well, we don't have to do this, but maybe we could do this instead. And I'm providing options and I'm navigating going around it to create the outcome that they want. But that's a lot of work. And those guys, man, some of them are really hard-headed and some of them can be jackasses if they don't exactly get their way right away.

And my, my service manager came to me a while back and she said, you know, I think that you're accustomed to dealing with these people. I think you're accustomed to, to working this hard to make this sale work and to make this thing happen with this client, to please this client. She said, I'm not, and I don't think you understand how much of a jerk this dude is being, and you're just used to it because the same.

Yeah. I actually have, I have had conversations with our customers. One day they'll talk to me, they'll be upset, they'll be absolutely just, you know, just, you know, whatever's going on. And then, like maybe mere hours later, they'll call back again and talk to Darryl or— And it's a completely different story. Because I'll say, you know, so such and such was upset, you know, maybe, you know, help smooth this over.

And they— the conversation, the demeanor that they have is nowhere— it's not in the same room. Yeah, what they were talking to me like, 100%. I'm telling them in my mind the same things that Daryl's telling them, and they just don't want to hear it from me. Yeah, absolutely, to the T. We have fired customers for misogyny. Yeah, we have literally fired customers.

Simply because of the way they've treated Jackie on the phone, or when my wife was around, when they treated her on the phone. It's like, I, I have plenty of customers, I don't need you. Yeah, exactly, dude. I had, I had somebody tell my wife one time that her place was in the kitchen, and I carried him out the front door of the shop.

And, uh, he, he would— he refused to talk to her, said that he would only speak to me, and was being a complete jerk. And I literally picked him up and carried him right out the front door of the shop and said, we no longer do business together. And I set him down and I shut the door and went on back in.

And the sad part about that is I taught technical college, the automotive training here, for about 3 years. And I can tell you that I've had half a dozen female students come through that were more on the ball and more intelligent than the males that we're trying to get into the business. Absolutely. So by excluding females from your technician base, you're missing a lot.

They have a different perspective, they have a different discipline, you know, they, they have a whole different mindset. And a lot of times it's because they don't have the strength, they don't have the desire to get dirty and stay dirty. So they find a better, smarter, easier way to do the same job. Yep, 100%. Did you know that Jasper had done studies on gender in their repair process or in their remanufacturing process, and that they had found that women repaired transmissions and engines far more effectively with less warranty work than the men did because they paid more attention to detail?

They asked more questions, right? Like, I will blunt force my way through a problem., and my wife is over here asking all these questions. I'm like, this all, this takes too much time to ask these questions. What are you doing? And like, she's asking very in-depth questions. And then I'm like, oh, well, that makes sense. Like, I wouldn't have ever got there that easily, you know?

But I, I don't take the time to— Yeah, exactly. This is crazy. Uh, you know, I think that's, that's common in our industry too. And, and we, you know, in For instance, like Jackie taking over for you. Um, one of the things that was a wake-up call for me was at some point or another, I became comfortable with saying, I don't know.

I became comfortable with saying, I'm not as strong at this as I thought I was. For the longest time, I really thought like I was the reason the business was going to be successful. And now I look at Jade, who is our manager, and I'm like, she's way better at a lot of things than I am.. And I think that when a shop owner can finally get to the point that they acknowledge that and they can acknowledge like, I'm not the smartest person in the room, I'm not the smartest person in the shop.

I think that is a powerful moment. I know it was powerful for me because I started to recognize I was the roadblock, right? I was the bottleneck in the shop and, and for the shop to truly reach its potential, I'm gonna have to step out of it. I'm gonna have to turn it over to them and let them do what they need to do.

To make the shop great because they have skills that I don't, you know. Jackie, what are you thinking about? I'm really just wondering, I'm kind of trying to like peek into Darryl's head right now because I'm thinking like, well, you know, he knows he's getting out at a certain point, these cars take a certain amount of time, and I'm like, does he have a car countdown?

Like, you like 50 cars and you're done? Like, I think she's calling you old now, Darryl. 50 cars. I mean, like, I don't know, he's working on one a year. So are you going to be done like you're going to get on a cruise and you're not going to come back? Like, I'm going to be in Mexico, or I'm going to be in Australia, don't call me, that kind of thing?

I think one of the, uh, I think a lot of things that are missing with some shop owners, and I'm sure y'all will agree with this, is they fail to diversify early enough in their careers. They don't have other revenue streams to support them. They're not making the investments, you know, the personal investments they should be to where they can actually get out.

And I've lived long enough and I've seen enough other shop owners around me try to get out. And these are the guys that ran businesses for 35 years and they're delivering parts for AutoZone. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. They did 40 years and they're just too old to finish the projects they need to finish because they didn't get out early enough. And in my case, uh, through a series of unfortunate events, uh, I was provided with enough financial means to comfortably pick a date and say when I can get out.

But I like the industry. I like the business. I like the customers. I like what we're doing so well. I'm gonna be available for that phone call. You know, you have that project that needs a little extra attention that you need some experience on, I'm not going anywhere. You know, the nice thing about technology is, is I could be on that cruise ship and then you can turn around and we can Zoom call or you can show me what you're looking at and I can give you an idea of where to go for the next step.

And, uh, that I don't think goes away. The, uh, uh, let me tell you how much I'm gonna try not to do that though. Jackie says, what I'm trying to say is, is like maybe like You could take a cruise for 6 months or something, and maybe we could just get some distance first. Okay. And the thing is, I also have the option of not taking the phone call.

Yeah, there you go. As a guy that used to hire the delivery drivers, I'm just telling you, they just get bored. They have plenty of money. They don't need the job. And so they dictate the hours. They're like, I'll work from this time to this time. And don't bother me on these days. And they just, they get bored out of their minds.

They have nothing to do. Well, I've watched people travel that way. Uh, I've talked to service writers and service managers that when they retire, they'll go to another town somewhere and they'll just sit behind somebody's counter to let them go to vacation, you know? And meanwhile, they'll go out and, you know, see the town and just do the light, easy work of taking care of customers to relieve somebody else.

And then when the guy gets back from vacation, go somewhere else. Yes. Well, Malan Newton did that. Malan did the, Malan did the remote service advising, went all over the country doing remote service advising. Um, and like, so he would, he would go to shops or he would work remotely, either one. And he wrote service for hundreds of shops like that. So I mean, I could see that.

It makes sense. Yeah. I don't know. Jackie's got this look on her face that's like, dad needs to, we need some distance here. I don't know. I, I can tell you that, uh, when I came back to the shop after my wife passed, uh, it— she tolerated me for probably a year and a half before she started working more remotely. And it took me a while to finally get my feet under me and realize I needed to leave her alone a little bit more and not unload as much.

Uh, there's a lot of transition you go through after a loss like that. Yes. And I've been through a few iterations of change on the personal side since then. And I'm not the same person I was even 10 years ago. So it's, you know, that is one of the things you just have to live and grow with. And I think the changing perspective of knowing that I've set a date to get out, it changes what my focus is.

Yeah. As a result, I know that I have to offload more of this to Jackie and just trust her ability to do what she feels is the best thing to do and then support that. Because at some point it's going to be all of her decisions, or she's going to be developing those decision processes with the people that are still going to be standing after I leave.

Yeah. Well, and I mean, if you don't give her that opportunity to make those decisions and see the results of those decisions, Right? I think that's a dangerous place to be. We try to save everybody from bad decisions, and all we end up with is more bad decisions because we never gave them the opportunity to learn and grow. And I, you know, I've watched my dad go through, like I said, the exact same thing, except after Mom died, then he found out all kinds of terrible things that happened.

My dad retired in 1989, and the building burnt down right after he retired. And he came back and he said, I'll never retire again. Every time I try and retire, something bad happens. So I'm just not doing it anymore. And, and there was something very different this time after mom passed away. There was a, there was a change in his mentality that, that said, I have to leave them successful.

I have to leave them in a better place than they're in right now. I have to do something to make this different. Right? It— you, you— I don't want to get into too much of the personal stuff, and, and I know it's hard to talk about. What did you learn from that experience, Darryl? Well, one of them was that I could walk away.

The second one is people are more important than things or businesses. Amen. And it's the relationships in our life that are really critical. Uh, some of my customer relationships were even though they were financially fruitful, were toxic. Some of my personal relationships that I had before the time were a lot shallower than I anticipated. There are always people in your life that will step up that you don't expect, you know, to have a customer walk in and drop a $30,000 home modification on you, you know, and not ask for anything.

So it's, uh, you start learning that people are definitely the most important thing, and that family is a precious item. Amen. It is a finite supply for most of us, and if you live long enough, it's a dwindling supply. So you need to take advantage of, of the time you have with them. And businesses can be a huge drain on that if you let it.

Yeah, you have to be able to separate it. You have to be able to have that personal life on the outside. You can't live in the business. You know, I did, I, I can't even say I have respect for the guys that can put in those 18-hour days because it just means they don't have work-life balance. Right. You know, they're either not doing something right so they can earn the money they need to, to where they can have the family time, or they're not prioritizing the right things in their lives.

Yeah, absolutely. You're so right. And I, You know, when I first started trying to make the change in my business, I wasn't being the dad I wanted to be. I wasn't being the husband I wanted to be. The shop consumed all of me, right? And it's taken me a long time to be able to walk into the house and, and say nothing about the shop, right?

We don't talk about it. And there's times we talk about the money struggles and everything else, but it's not, it's not what it was, right? I used to walk through that door and it was, I This is so frustrating and this is wrong and I should have done this and I wish I'd have done that. And we got this problem over here.

And it was just those flowing out at the end of the day, the frustrations that I couldn't share with the staff or anybody else. And now I've learned to build a support system around me that I can call David or I can call whoever and say, man, I'm really frustrated about this, but it doesn't need to go home. And I think the wake-up call— and Jackie, you may have experienced some of this being younger— the wake-up call for me was, is At some point my wife looked at me and said, hey, I think you're giving our daughter anxiety.

I think you're making her nervous about money. I think you're making her nervous about all these things. Now we're not struggling for money. Like the past couple of weeks have been really slow and it was hard, but I mean, we're, we're back up on top of it and things are going well. But like, she didn't hear about the good times. She heard about the times that I was stressed out and it was impacting her.

But I didn't think about that as a dad. Right. And I think that's something that we miss sometimes. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Jackie, did that impact you at all when you were younger? Yeah. Um, I mean, I, I don't, I don't bring as much of my work home. Like I, I had a lot bigger problem when I was still working in radio, to be quite frank, of just, you know, like you're constantly rolling over in your head, what's next?

What's next? What's next? What's next? And so I knew stepping away from that, that, that I wanted to move away from that. So I don't have a big problem with transitioning between work and home. Yeah. Um, but I, I do see it. Yeah. It, it causes a lot of, of troubles between families. Darrell, you got a lot of experience. What are the— I, I guess I've got two questions for you.

The first one is, what are the things that you don't ever want Jackie to have to experience in the business? What are the big ones that you think, here's where I don't want you to be in 5 years, 10 years, or here's the thing that I don't want you to have to go through? We've suffered through 3 major recessions in this local market, to the point that, uh, at the second one, which followed within about a year and a half of the first one— these were local market, one of them was national, 2 of them were local, uh, After the second one, we actually looked at going bankrupt because we were just about tapped out

with all of our finances. Reserves were gone. There were no customers. Every time they would, you know, we had a shipyard close. Every time they'd say shipyard closure, our phones wouldn't ring for 2 days. So we didn't have the customer base at the time to help tide us through that other project backlog. That we do now. That's, I don't want Jackie to have to have that fear of how are you going to feed your family?

Because we were pretty much, besides my wife's part-time income working for other business owners, we wouldn't have had enough to have paid the mortgage, paid all the bills or anything else. And that's a struggle and a fear I don't want her to have to feel. And then, uh, as a secondary on that, I want her to feel the freedom or have the freedom to actually take time to enjoy her children, to spend time with her husband, you know, to have that life outside of the shop.

And that's been part of my conscious effort not to expand the business so large to a point that it requires an exorbitant amount of your time. Or requires you, you know, to manage a dozen different managers. Uh, we could have easily had probably 6 locations in our local area, uh, by this point in our time. But I discovered third year I was in business that I didn't like handling more than 7 or 8 employees.

That was about the maximum that I wanted to handle. And that's probably about any, you know, you could realistically expect most locations to run. But yeah, that's the big thing is I don't want her to have to have that fear that I'm not going to be able to feed my family or I'm going to have to completely uproot and, you know, lose everything to do it.

It sounded like there may have been a little bit of emotion in the, the, I want her to be able to have quality time with her family. Do you feel like you got the quality time? Do you feel like you were there and present and you feel good about where you were there? And actually it's funny because we had, as I mentioned, we were involved in all these automotive pursuits, you know, all these clubs, you know, a little bit of travel here and there.

Jackie was always, I'll have to put it mildly, she was always extremely competitive and very self-starting and very motivated. So there was always an activity to go do with her, and I tried to make as many of those as I could, to the point that I— we for a while did vintage racing, and the demands in the vintage racing community got so strong because you are on severe deadlines during the racing seasons that there were events that I would have missed.

One case in point her birthday. We ended up having her birthday at a racetrack, which I think she enjoyed, but it's still— it's a birthday at a racetrack instead of a birthday. Yeah, yeah. I mean, she agreed to it, but, uh, so we actually— we had, uh, we were able to provide her with a really good life and shield her from a lot of the financial struggles that were going on in the background.

So I don't think that she ever felt that she really wanted— there were things that other kids around her were doing, uh, that we couldn't afford. Take the cruises, the overseas vacations, you know, the, the 3-week-long vacations during the summertime, things like that. She had friends that were doing those things and we couldn't provide those, but she never really questioned it. You know, she accepted what normal was.

And a lot of times she was proactive enough to find those activities on her own. You know, she did develop a strong friend base and things like that. So, so I don't feel on the family side that we really sacrificed a ton. It's just that fear that that family life that we had cultivated could have been lost at several points along the way because of Number one, things that I didn't know.

I mean, I thought I knew everything back then. I didn't know what I didn't know. And then number two, outside environment, you know, bigger system things such as government closures of bases where you lose 30% of your customer base overnight. Yeah. And there's a point here in Charleston, just a big industry thing. For everybody to ponder. When they closed our shipyard here in Charleston, I was talking to one of my vendors from Napa and he walks in and Sonny had this gray look on his face and it's like, what's up today, Sonny?

And Sonny says, I just came back from Firestone. He said they padlocked all 6 of their stores in Charleston. Holy cow. They owe us almost $1 million. My God. So he was in fear for his job because he's watching his customers They were bankrupting at the rate of 1.5 shops a day for almost 3 months. A lot of the guys just rolled over.

It was horrible for about a year. Uh, then unfortunately we did the stupid thing. You know, we kept spending money and we kept working on cars and kept our nose down almost to the point of bankruptcy, but it turned out okay in the end. And that was mostly not wanting to upset the family cart. You know, we wanted to maintain the structure, the stability, and the family life that we had.

And, uh, it's, you know, every business I think has its trials like that. The big thing is, as we were saying earlier, developing that separation, not bringing it home. Yeah. Well, you know, Darrell, I'll tell you that the best times in my life were in the family business. Like as a kid growing up, I look back now and I think, man, how blessed I was to have those opportunities to spend with my mom and my dad and learn from them and learn the customer service aspect and grow and develop, right?

Like, so I, I think that that's a win in my book. Jackie, is there anything you want dad to know? Is there anything that, that you would say to him hearing that? Um, well, I wouldn't say I was scathed. Um, but I'm, I'm with you, Lucas, and that I also had a lot of good memories too. Um, you know, like I, uh, I picked up playing flute when I was about 11 years old, and I used to actually practice at the shop, out in the shop while they were trying to fix cars.

They had to listen to me, those poor guys. Oh, that's awesome. Um, yeah, so I mean, I just— there's a lot of, um, like they fixed up a little go-kart for me and let me ride it around the cul-de-sac and just little stuff like that that kids enjoy. Like, you know, I got the good side of that too. I mean, honestly, I think the worst part of growing up the way I did was more the fact that I had to eat a lot of ramen noodles and Hamburger Helper, and it did make an effect on my health after a while.

So that's probably really the worst stuff. That's awesome. Yeah, but it was— growing up in a shop is a good experience. I know so much more about cars and so many of the other people I grew up with too, that it's just like, even without having to pay to go to school to have that training, I just, I'm the one that a lot of my friends call, you know, like, and I'll tell 'em like, I'm not a mechanic, go have somebody look at it if I don't know.

But like, you know, and you know what that's like. So I'm stepping into that role myself now. Well, I think it's phenomenal and I think it's a phenomenal story and I'm so thankful that you guys came on and told it. I'd love to have you guys on again here soon. After the transition happens, maybe we talk a little more about it as things progress throughout.

We'd love to have you guys back on and let's talk about it some more. Sounds great. It's been wonderful. All right, he's going to hit end. Thank you for listening to the Changing the Industry podcast. If you enjoy the show, do us a favor and leave us a review on your favorite podcast player. And don't forget to set it to automatically download the latest episode.

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Changing the Industry PodcastJune 29 · 1h 16m

Episode 275 - Trying To Elevate Automotive Training with Trevor Schlientz of Autonerdz

Don't get to the end of this year wishing you had taken action to change your business and your life.Click here to schedule a free discovery call for your business: https://geni.us/IFORABEDon't miss an upcoming event with The Institute: https://geni.us/InstituteEvents2026Shop-Ware gives you the tools to provide your shop with everything needed to become optimally profitable.Click here to schedule a free demo: https://geni.us/Shop-Ware-Free-MonthTransform your shop's marketing with the best in the automotive industry, Shop Marketing Pros!Get a free audit of your shop's current marketing by clicking here: https://geni.us/ShopMarketingProsShop owners, are you ready to simplify your business operations? Meet 360 Payments, your one-stop solution for effortless payment processing.Imagine this—no more juggling receipts, staplers, or endless paperwork. With 360 Payments, you get everything integrated into a single, sleek digital platform.Simplify payments. Streamline operations. Check out 360payments.com today!In this episode, the conversation focused on the evolution of diagnostics in the automotive industry and the transition from technician to business owner. One concept discussed was the value and limitations of certifications such as ASE, with a candid look at how credentialing and industry standards affect technician growth. A key theme that emerged was the importance of community-based training and support, emphasizing how shop owners and technicians can elevate industry standards by hosting and attending collaborative training events.00:00 Identifying and fixing a valve issue08:12 Early influence of my dad14:32 Debating test competency methods17:00 Discussing ADOS legislation requirements24:41 Criticizing school accreditation practices29:29 Continuous education in auto care36:00 Community troubleshooting and collaboration38:59 Getting support for Pico tools46:38 Getting help from friends52:22 Building community through hosting53:43 Collaborating with suppliers for training01:01:59 Advantages of live streaming01:08:14 Marketing strategy for 202601:14:30 Improving industry skills through content01:15:01 Getting started with the scope

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Changing the Industry PodcastJune 22 · 1h 7m

Episode 274 - Can The Automotive Service Industry Be Saved? With Cecil Bullard and Wayne Marshall

Don't get to the end of this year wishing you had taken action to change your business and your life.Click here to schedule a free discovery call for your business: https://geni.us/IFORABEDon't miss an upcoming event with The Institute: https://geni.us/InstituteEvents2026Shop-Ware gives you the tools to provide your shop with everything needed to become optimally profitable.Click here to schedule a free demo: https://geni.us/Shop-Ware-Free-MonthTransform your shop's marketing with the best in the automotive industry, Shop Marketing Pros!Get a free audit of your shop's current marketing by clicking here: https://geni.us/ShopMarketingProsShop owners, are you ready to simplify your business operations? Meet 360 Payments, your one-stop solution for effortless payment processing.Imagine this—no more juggling receipts, staplers, or endless paperwork. With 360 Payments, you get everything integrated into a single, sleek digital platform.Simplify payments. Streamline operations. Check out 360payments.com today!In this episode, Cecil Bullard and Wayne Marshall discuss the challenges facing the automotive industry today. They examine the complexities and controversies surrounding technician licensing and certification, highlighting the need for industry-wide standards. The conversation also addresses the importance of financial literacy and measurable productivity in running a successful shop.00:00 Debating dealership licensing issues10:17 Balancing employee pay and motivation13:05 Building Employee Loyalty18:33 Improving employee wages and management23:01 Business fundamentals and financial ratios29:03 Planning an Exit Strategy35:00 Chris Enright on industry frustration41:01 Need for sophisticated testing46:14 Importance of unique selling proposition51:13 Importance of inclusivity and differentiation54:12 Challenges with membership relevance01:03:44 Young talent and enthusiasm01:04:15 Recruiting a young car enthusiast

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Changing the Industry PodcastJune 15 · 1h 2m

Episode 273 - Learning from Mistakes and Building Stronger Businesses With Tara Topel

Don't get to the end of this year wishing you had taken action to change your business and your life.Click here to schedule a free discovery call for your business: https://geni.us/IFORABEDon't miss an upcoming event with The Institute: https://geni.us/InstituteEvents2026Shop-Ware gives you the tools to provide your shop with everything needed to become optimally profitable.Click here to schedule a free demo: https://geni.us/Shop-Ware-Free-MonthTransform your shop's marketing with the best in the automotive industry, Shop Marketing Pros!Get a free audit of your shop's current marketing by clicking here: https://geni.us/ShopMarketingProsShop owners, are you ready to simplify your business operations? Meet 360 Payments, your one-stop solution for effortless payment processing.Imagine this—no more juggling receipts, staplers, or endless paperwork. With 360 Payments, you get everything integrated into a single, sleek digital platform.Simplify payments. Streamline operations. Check out 360payments.com today!In this episode, Lucas and David are joined by Tara Topel to dig into the challenges facing shop owners and the broader automotive industry. They examine the importance of building businesses that can run independently of their owners, emphasizing the need for processes, standards, and effective delegation. The conversation also highlights a lack of engagement with valuable industry resources, such as the Auto Care Association, underscoring the need for greater awareness and participation among shop owners. Finally, they discuss the shifting landscape of automotive technology—from EVs to ADAS calibrations—and the risks and responsibilities that come with staying current.00:00 Handling online criticism07:36 Balancing business and family time11:22 Trading our souls for convenience18:10 Preparing for business contingencies26:12 Joining a National Auto Association30:40 Helping People Who Want Change32:37 Importance of labor in auto shops40:45 ADAS calibration cost concerns46:05 ADAS system calibration advice48:59 Pilot and maintenance disagreement56:20 Traffic control and roundabouts59:47 Distracted driving habits

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Master Tech to MillionaireJuly 5 · 33 min

AutoShop Ministries Episode 2 - Make Your Best Your Standard: From Technician to CEO

Joe Adams and chaplain Devante Tidwell discuss making "your best" the daily standard—drawing on Colossians 3:23 and Proverbs—to defeat laziness and build consistent excellence in work, faith, and family. The episode mixes Scripture, practical shop and life examples (micro wins, habits, leadership) and a challenge to choose one small change today that compounds into long-term success.

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Downshift with TonnikaJuly 4 · 18 min

Why Busy Shops Stay Broke | Josh Oberlander | Ep 25

You shouldn't have to play detective just to figure out what's happening in your own shop. 😂 If you're ready for all your shop's information in one place, check out Tekmetric HEREConsistency is key - heard that! But, consistency is HARD. That's why I gave up on trying and let the experts handle it. Detect Auto. Let them clean up your estimating process and raise your ARO - like they did for me! CLICK HERE TO BOOK A DEMOIn this episode, Tonnika Haynes and Josh Oberlander break down why slowing down and focusing on process can actually turbocharge your shop’s growth. Tonnika shares hard-won lessons about moving from high car count and burnout to prioritizing quality over quantity, showing how DVIs (with more photos!) increase both trust and repair order value. Josh jumps in with actionable advice on building team buy-in, gamifying new processes, and leading from the top. Timestamps:00:00 Leading from the top: Why technicians and advisors must buy in00:35 The untapped power of free training for shop owners01:17 Doing less for more: Getting profitable work from fewer cars02:16 Maximizing ARO by slowing down and focusing on DVIs03:07 The quick lube trap: Saying yes to everything vs. building real value03:23 Photos = trust: How transparent DVIs win more jobs03:34 Josh shares shop success with upping DVI photo counts04:04 Protecting your shop with good photos (and covering your … liability)05:01 Why busy shops are still "broke"—the cost of missing training & coaching06:10 Saying 'no for now': The hardest lesson for shop owners06:41 Why oil changes almost never build loyalty (and what to focus on instead)06:53 Coaching your team: Breaking through resistance to DVI and new processes08:04 Gamifying buy-in: Whiteboards, numbers, and making it a challenge09:20 The 60- or 90-day challenge: Real tracking for real results10:00 Why photo & video DVIs build trust—and prevent burnout11:19 Video in the shop: When and why you want to use it12:08 Technicians, not actors: Keeping DVI videos authentic12:25 The magic of just one extra hour per ticket12:36 Team buy-in starts at the top—stop relying on "because I said so"13:18 Creating a culture of “disagree and commit”14:20 How team input drives goals, ownership, and commitment15:08 Buy-in that sticks: When your team runs the shop without you15:53 Setting the next big goal (and getting your team hyped!)16:06 The never-ending work of real leadership17:01 The payoff of openness: Why your team should know the numbers

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Downshift with TonnikaJuly 2 · 49 min

ATTENTION: Shop Owners - Buy Back Your Time | Dan Thieken - Ep 24

Consistency is key - heard that! But, consistency is HARD. That's why I gave up on trying and let the experts handle it. Detect Auto. Let them clean up your estimating process and raise your ARO - like they did for me! CLICK HERE TO BOOK A DEMOAnybody can run a shop. Building one that lasts? That's a whole different story. If you're ready to build smarter systems and a better experience for your team and customers, check out Tekmetric HEREIn this episode, Tonnika Haynes and Ash Kaplan chat with Dan Thieken, owner of Kreager Tire and Service LLC in Millersport, Ohio. Dan opens up about the journey from sweeping floors as a high school student to owning his own shop, emphasizing the importance of building the right team so that owners can eventually step away from day-to-day operations. He also shares his philosophy on why shops should offer tires—not only as a profit center, but as a window into the car's soul that keeps customers from ever needing another shop. Timestamps:00:00 Why you should ALWAYS offer tires at your shop02:11 Dan Thieken's origin story: From sweeping floors to owner04:32 The leap to management—and whistleblowing on bad leadership05:25 Not a tech? Why owning a shop is still for you07:07 People skills: Bartenders, restaurant work, and automotive service10:41 Building a team so you (finally) can step away13:31 Small town challenges: Hiring, no running water, and real culture16:14 The trust fall: Letting go of your “baby” shop18:17 Shop success = buying back your own time20:04 The slippery slope of coaching and paying it forward22:11 What’s your business mix? Service vs. tires, and how it changed24:22 Two reasons EVERY shop should offer tires25:10 How selling tires unlocks full-vehicle inspections26:20 Stop “selling”—just advise and build relationships28:00 Would Dan ever hire a coach? The answer might surprise you32:26 Advice for new shop owners: Train your replacement34:21 The personal side: Boundaries, empathy, and being “too nice”39:00 Mistakes owners make: Wanting to be absentee too soon43:12 The real trick: Let your staff learn from their mistakes46:00 Why Dan feels more at home away from the counter47:51 Upcoming events, classes, and golf trips

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The Institute's Leading Edge PodcastJuly 1 · 1h 0m

210 - Ask Cecil & Lucas The 5 C's of Effective Vehicle Diagnosis & Repair Documentation

210 - Ask Cecil & Lucas The 5 C's of Effective Vehicle Diagnosis & Repair Documentation July 1, 2026 - 00:59:46 Show Summary: Strong repair order documentation protects the customer the technician and the shop while improving efficiency and profitability. Cecil Bullard and Lucas Underwood explain the Five Cs of repair documentation and why every repair order should tell a complete story from the customer's concern to the final verification. They share real court cases shop experiences and practical examples that show how better documentation reduces liability improves communication and builds customer trust. They also discuss accountability shop culture and why consistent processes create better teams and better results.   Host(s): Lucas Underwood, Shop Owner of L&N Performance Auto Repair and Changing the Industry Podcast Cecil Bullard, Founder of The Institute   Show Highlights: [00:00:00] – Repair orders protect the customer the shop and the technician. [00:03:00] – Ask better questions to fully understand every customer concern. [00:07:12] – Confirm every complaint before diagnosis begins to prevent wasted time. [00:12:05] – Complete documentation can protect your shop during legal disputes. [00:18:28] – Use a two arrow diagnostic process to prove the true cause. [00:22:10] – Technicians should document the repair plan and final verification. [00:31:02] – Accountability and quality control keep repair order standards consistent. [00:36:08] – Leaders must follow shop processes before expecting employees to. [00:42:18] – Strong culture grows from systems training and customer focused communication. [00:53:05] – The Five Cs create better documentation stronger shops and happier customers.   In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://youtu.be/cIbTInGm09Q   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com.   Episode Transcript: Lucas Underwood: Good afternoon, everybody. My name is Lucas Underwood with the Changing the Industry podcast. I own an auto repair shop here in Blowing Rock, North Carolina, called L&M Performance Auto Repair. And today I am joined with one of the elite of the industry, Mr. Cecil Bullard. Cecil is the founder and chairman of the Institute in GEAR Group. And one of my very first classes on writing repair orders was with Cecil. And I'm just gonna tell you right here and right now, I know that we just think that fixing the car is about fixing the car, but when I took that class with Cecil, I really understood the importance of writing a repair order. Because not only is it a repair order that tells you what to fix and tells the consumer what's wrong with the car, but it's a repair order that it's a legally binding document, and it helps us explain and convey information to the client, but it also protects us. So Cecil, how you doing today, buddy? Cecil Bullard: I'm great, Lucas, as always. I'm doing fantastic. Lucas Underwood: Very good. Very good. So we're talking repair orders today. The s- the idea of it is the five Cs, but I think that we need to talk through the process of writing a repair order. So many of us show up at work every single day, and we jump in and we start working on cars, and we focus on fixing the car. But who writes the repair order, who does what part of the repair order, and what information is on the repair order is mission critical to the success of the shop. Because it impacts the close ratio, it impacts liability, right? So if you've ever had to go to court you know how important it is to have some information on there. But it impacts the effectiveness of the shop. So I have seen a difference in productivity and efficiency all the way around by getting the correct information on the repair order at the right time. And so Cecil, I'd like you to kick it off and tell us, guys ask me all the time, "What are the five Cs?" You wanna jump in and tell us what they are? Cecil Bullard: So the five Cs so let me get there in a sec. I wanna- Yeah ... step maybe two steps backward. The repair order starts with the conversation with the service advisor and the consumer- Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: the client. And if I have good canned jobs good descriptions of what I'm doing. For instance, if I'm gonna do a mill light, a diagnostic, or a a electrical diagnostic, I wanna have a really good description of all of that builds value for the client and gets information for the technician. So let, let's think about this- it really starts there. Yeah. I've seen techs spend hours and hours go- because they didn't get the good information in the front. Lucas Underwood: For Cecil Bullard: sure. Going after, going after- Lucas Underwood: It's one of the primary complaints, Cecil. One of the primary complaints- Yeah ... is I just spent four hours looking for this- Cecil Bullard: Yeah ... Lucas Underwood: and you didn't give me the information. And then Cecil Bullard: y- yeah, and then they go up to the service advisor after th- all that frustration, and the service advisor says, "Oh, no. That's n- that's not really what I meant," right? Yeah. And so creating really good CAN jobs to start, which gives us a good heads-up on creating value for our client and give- giving the technician the information that the technician needs to move forward is kinda where this starts. And that really is in a way, that's the first C. What is the complaint from the consumer, right? Yeah. The client. So the first C is the complaint, and we need to document that complaint fully and completely. A- so I can't have a car runs rough. That's not enough for my technician, because my rough, and the consumer's rough, and the technician's rough could be three different things. So I really wanna ask the questions as a service advisor, how often, when, is the car cold? Is the car hot? Is it going uphill? Is it going downhill? Is this only on Tuesdays on a certain road at a certain time- Yeah ... of day? I need to be asking questions of the consumer so that I can get my technician the information that will help them create a problem. So I'll give you an example. Consumer comes in. I'm- I happen to be the service advisor, and I used to be the tech, and says, "I've got a rattle." I happen to jump in the car, and, I write it up, and I'm gonna end up giving it to a tech. But I jump in the car to pull it in the back, and there is just the most ungodly rattle in the trunk. And I- I open the trunk as a service advisor, and there's a bowling ball rolling around. Lucas Underwood: That'll Cecil Bullard: do the trick- And seriously ... Lucas Underwood: won't it? Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Yeah, seriously. And so I take the bowling ball. There's a towel in the trunk. I wrap it in this towel, and I put it in the backseat, where it's gonna be secure, and I test drive the car, and there's no rattle. There's no noise, right? And so I basically finish the work order, and the tech never sees the car. And I figure I got her whooped. And so I write the customer up. It was, I don't know, it was probably at the time it was an hour diag. I think I charged him half of the time and said, "Oh, yeah, we got her found, and, isn't this kind of funny? You have a bowling ball." There's actually dents on the inside of the trunk from this bowling ball rolling around. And the consumer pays the bill, drives out, the client, and not three minutes later, he's back in my- ... in the bay in my face. And, you Lucas Underwood: know- This sounds so Cecil Bullard: familiar. And he goes you didn't get the r- you didn't get the rattle." Yeah. And I'm like, "Oh, really?" Could you- Lucas Underwood: How could that not be the rattle? Cecil Bullard: Yeah, how could that... You- you ignored that completely, and now there's some minuscule... So I go for a ride with the guy, and it's actually a squeak coming out of one of the struts. Going over a bump, right? I didn't ask enough questions. I didn't, as the service advisor. And so now, the customer's already paid. They didn't pay enough 'cause I discounted it because it was so easy to, you know- Yeah ... fix, and I felt bad. And now I've gotta give it to a tech and track, put ears on it and track the noise down, and we end up replacing struts. But that's an example of not really understanding the customer's complaint, and that's- For sure ... that's the first, that's the first C. For sure. Lucas Underwood: And look, I'm gonna tell you, this is something that, that I have been through with my team over and over again. We're not just talking about understanding the complaint alone. We're trying to understand their desired outcome. Yeah. We're trying to understand what it is they're trying to accomplish. Yeah. Because if you knew the number of times that I have been working with a client, and they're like, "Hey, I have this noise." And we're talking, and we go all the way through it, and I fix the noise, right? I call them and say this. And I found out later that here I am, I'm on the telephone with them, and I'm talking through, "Oh, the noise. Yep, absolutely. Got this taken care of." Oh, you got this. But I wasn't active listening. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: They were saying, "Hey, I'm not worried about the noise, but there's this thing." Yeah. And so i- if we're not active listening and paying attention to what they actually want to accomplish... and Susan just came back from the advisor intensive. Yeah. And she said one of the things that she brought up is that, hey, I've been on to her. "Hey, convey to the technicians what it is the consumer's trying to achieve." Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: Like- Yeah ... let's talk about what this is. So Cecil Bullard: maybe we need to, we n- maybe we need to create a sixth C, or maybe it's five Cs and an, a- an A- Yeah ... or something because- ... what is it the customer wants? When they walk away at the end of the, at the end of the interaction, what are they really what are they really searching for? Yeah. And I hope that through the five Cs we actually- Find it, we get it, we confirm it, et cetera. So first C is the customer's complaint. The second is the confirmation of the complaint. Yeah. I need somebody in my business to have felt, experienced heard whatever it is the customer is complaining about. Because, I had a guy who worked for me love... One of my best employees ever, do anything for you. Deaf as a post, yeah. And so if you sent him out on any kind of a noise complaint i- with a car, he'd come back and say, "Not a thing. All this... I can't... There's nothing." And I go drive that thing, and sure enough the, there's a noise. And so somehow I want a confirmation. Whether it's the service advisor that, that drives with the customer and hears the noise. One of my questions as a service advisor was, "Can you duplicate the noise?" Yes. "Can you make it happen-" Yes ... at will? And if the customer said, "Yeah," I'm like, "Let's go for a ride," right? Yeah. I wanna hear the noise, right? Because when it's all done, the, I'm the guy who's responsible as the service advisor for making sure that the customer gets what they expected, and that's no noise, right? The, a solution- ... to their problem. How do we create a list of the right questions to ask? Yeah, that's Lucas Underwood: a... Cecil Bullard: Yeah, that's a great question. And ensure we capture it properly. I think that number one, there's an experience. I think at one point there's somewhere I have a list of questions that would be asked. Yeah. Some of my- A Lucas Underwood: diagnostic questionnaire or something ... Cecil Bullard: some of my shops have a diagnostic questionnaire that they use with the client to help make sure some of that doesn't get missed, right? And I think that as a... I need to be, I don't know, I need to be an investigator as a service advisor and I need to ask probably five more questions than I probably would ask anyway, right? Yeah. I would really like the consumer to say, "Wow, that's a lot of questions." Because I tell my service advisors, I, or I used to "I don't wanna know that it's got a noise. That's simple. What I wanna know is how often can it be recreated? When does it happen? Under what circumstances? At what temperature? Driving on what roads?" Yeah. I'd like to pinpoint it so much so that you could say it only happens on Tuesdays and Thursdays between 1:00 and 2:00, going uphill- Come- On X road. I want Lucas Underwood: every bit of Cecil Bullard: detail Lucas Underwood: you can get me. Yeah. I, you know how many complaints that I get from technicians who say, "These advisors are lazy. These advisors aren't getting me what I need. These advisors are frustrating me. These advisors are causing me extra work. These advisors are running me around like crazy"? Well- And, and- There's a Cecil Bullard: natural tension, right? I mean- Lucas Underwood: There is. Yeah. But just good questions can make all the difference in the world. It can. Getting this information, asking better questions. Because look, it only makes the technician more efficient, and when the technician's more efficient, guess what? You're gonna sell more work, Mr. Advisor. Cecil Bullard: More productivity equals- Yeah ... more money in the bank. And also less frustration, and that's- Exactly ... for me, that's kinda the point. I don't want anyone in my business to be frustrated. Yeah. Frustration you don't work at your best when you're frustrated. Yeah. I don't care what, which job you're doing you just don't work at your best. Yeah. And I want a confirmation. I want in the write-up Someone to say, "I took the car, I drove the car, I heard the noise, I experienced the problem and I need that in the write-up." Yeah. Not just the car has a noise. We replaced the upper control arms, and now it doesn't have a noise. Yeah. I need to... that customer could have another problem six months from now, two years from now. Yeah. Most shops now are y- are probably at least three year, 36,000-mile warranty on most of what they do. And so if that customer comes in two years from now and there's a different service advisor or even myself, I'm not necessarily gonna remember everything that happened. Yeah ... I wanna be able to read that work order and understand not the process, what we went through, what we experienced, why we did what we did. Yes. And I wanna be able to really clarify that for the for my client. I, hey- and it has little to do with court, but I gotta tell you, even yesterday I'm talking to a client and they're like- ... "Oh, I'm in trouble. This customer wants $1,700 back for X, Y, and Z." And I'm like, "Okay. Did you take pictures of the service and the repair that the car was fixed when you did what you did?" "No the tech always forgets to take pictures. They won't take pictures." Yeah. Whatever. And looking at the write-up, there's no clear why we did what we did and what the outcome was. For sure. Lucas Underwood: Absolutely. Cecil Bullard: It's just we replaced the upper control arm bushings. Okay. And if you go to court with that, you're dead. You- Lucas Underwood: Exactly ... Cecil Bullard: don't go. Lucas Underwood: I'm gonna tell you a little story, okay? Years ago, and it was when I first started kinda learning how to run the business, I'd hired my first coach at the time, and a guy came in, and he came from a local rental place, and he was tearing a building down. He was loading the building up, and he was taking it back, and he's kinda like one of these hotshot truck drivers, except he was doing work while he was on site. And if I remember, I'll go post pictures of this at some point. I gotta be careful about it 'cause I don't wanna alert anybody, but so long story short, this gentleman has a brake problem, and I get done with the c- with the truck, and I did the things he wanted done, and I said, "I'm gonna tell you something. I don't trust this thing. It's not stopping right. I couldn't tell you why." And I need to do more testing to determine what that is. You're telling me you need to leave right now, but something does not feel right. Something is not right here. And so I'd driven it, and this was right when I first started learning to write repair orders, and so I put all over that ticket, the brakes are not right, the client declined additional testing, we offered to do the testing for free, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. We don't know what the results might be of this. And so few days later, the guy who referred him out here and he said, "Hey man," he said, "Is this that truck that you were telling me about that I sent over?" And it's this picture, and this thing, Cecil, there's nothing left of it. Yeah. It's in pieces. The cab's ripped off of it. The axles are out from underneath it. The bed's ripped off of it. Now, the highway patrol shows up out here at the shop. Yeah. And he walks in and he's asking all these questions about the truck, and I said, "Here..." "Here's what I have, and here's the signed repair order where they signed off picking the truck up, and here's all the information that I had about the truck." He said, "I've never seen anything like this." He said, "I've never seen this written up." He said, "You were in the clear anyway." And I said, "Why?" He said, "Because he went off the top of that mountain with 42,000 pounds on a truck that was rated for 12." Cecil Bullard: Yeah. He said, "There was-" you know why it wouldn't stop, right? He said- I don't know why. Maybe it's 42,000 pounds in the back- ... when it's only supposed to have 12. Lucas Underwood: Exactly. And so he was- Wow ... he was super cool about it, but he said, "Man," he said, "I'm telling you," he said, "That just..." He said, "That's all I need. What you put on there is enough for me-" Yeah ... "to know that the driver was at fault for this accident." He said, "Because you told him as a professional something was wrong." Which, yeah, and- The number of tickets we see that have nothing on it- Yeah ... fixed brakes. I probably see 10 to 15 of those that come into my shop, dealers, independent shops, the whole nine yards, and they bring me their service history and I'm like Fixed brakes Cecil Bullard: So think about this, 'cause I don't think any shop owner understands the liability that they have. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: So I put a fixed brakes on the work order- Yeah ... and I don't write anything else. I don't write what I found, I don't write why I fixed them, I don't write what happened when they were fixed and how it rode. Yeah. I do nothing but fixed brakes, right? Lucas Underwood: Yep. Cecil Bullard: And that guy goes out and drives it off a mountain and all of a sudden I'm in the middle of a lawsuit that could cost me everything I have. And you think, you would think that wait a minute. I'm a corporation, I'm an LLC or a, an S corp or whatever, so I'm protected as the owner." If there's- Yeah ... anything illegal that goes on, your protection is wiped away. Gone. And so- Yeah, Lucas Underwood: buddy. If you've ever- And- ... pierced the corporate veil- Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: And then- ... they can find out anything. Cecil Bullard: And then I have the excuses of it takes too long to write the work order." Okay. Charge the customer for it. Yeah. I mean- Yeah ... if I have to document and I have to do a good job of documenting what happened and it takes an extra 20 minutes, then raise your labor rate. Or I don't know- Yeah ... add another 20 minutes to the work order to, so that you can document properly, because it's too important, right? Lucas Underwood: It is. Cecil Bullard: So I- It's too Lucas Underwood: important ... I've got a question though because it- Okay ... this is something that comes up. I've got a lot of shop owners that I talk to about this and they say no, you're better off putting less information on there, because then if you put more information, they could say you touched something. You did something. You took something apart.'" From my experiences, that's not the case. I- Cecil Bullard: I have never gone to court. I've gone to court personally for myself like four times. Yeah. I've gone to court 13 times for clients. I've been asked to go to court probably 50. All right? The 47 times I did not go to court- Were because the paperwork wasn't done right. Yeah. There wasn't enough information. Okay? The 13 times I went to court, I won. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Because the paperwork was done properly, because everything- Yeah ... was spelled out correctly. Because the signatures were in the right places. Because the mileage when it came in was on, and the mileage when it left was on. I had a lady with a Chrysler. It's one of my favorite stories. Really nice older lady. Came in, we did, I don't know, $3,500 worth of work to it. Struts, suspension work, tires, brakes, blah, blah, blah. And as part of what we did, we documented the fluids. We documented that the transmission fluid was good. We documented that the transmission was shifting properly. We documented that the engine was running well, that there were no oil leaks at the time that we were driving the car. We drove the car, I don't know, 22 miles as part of what we did. And 800 miles later, about three and a half weeks later, the transmission crapped itself. Okay? 123,000 mile, 140,000 mile Chrysler. Old Chrysler, yeah. Yeah. And so she came in hot. And I brought out the work order. I looked at what we did. I looked at why we did it. I told her, I said, "Look, see here? We checked the fluid. Here's a picture of the fluid. It looked good. There was no metal in it. See here? We drove the vehicle. We drove the vehicle, 22 miles. It was shifting perfectly. There were no problems with the way it shifted. So let me ask you a question. I just wanna ask you one question." She said, "Okay, fine." "Should we have sold you a transmission At, 800 miles ago when it was, when the fluid was good and the transmission was shifting perfectly as a precaution just because you had 123,000 miles on your car. And she looked at me and she went, "No, probably not." Okay, great. And but if you don't have the story, you can't back up what you did and why you did it. Yeah. Yeah. You have to have the story. And it, I don't know. For me if you're a service advisor in my shop, which okay, I don't have one today but I certainly ran a lot of shops for many years. And you're a service advisor in my shop, and you're not gonna write the story out, and you're not gonna create the right documentation, you're not gonna work for me. Yeah. And if I have to take over for you at 3:00 'cause you got a dentist appointment or you gotta go to your daughter's dance recital or whatever, and there's no information for me, the next day's gonna be a hard day for you, Lucas Underwood: right? Yeah. Absolutely, man. We- Absolutely ... Cecil Bullard: we should get in the pattern. So let's talk C number three, right? Okay. We talked about two. Number three is what's the cause? What is causing the vehicle? And I can tell you in my shops we use what we call a two arrow approach. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Okay? So you can't tell me that the code was whatever and it means that the number five spark plug wasn't firing properly. That's ... Okay, that's, that is not necessarily the cause. That's the out- an outcome, right? And you can't say we need to replace the number five spark plug because the code was here." I want testing done that tracks it to say, "This is what we're replacing, and this is why we're replacing it." Yeah. I want a second arrow. And so- For sure ... all of my guys knew if they didn't have a two arrow approach we, w- I wasn't selling it. Okay? Yeah. Or I might call the customer and say, "Look, we need to do some additional testing." I didn't have a problem with a guy coming to me and saying, "Hey, Cecil- ... I gotta run three more tests and then I need two more hours to, to really figure out what this is." Lucas Underwood: Exactly. Does not bother me a bit. Cecil Bullard: Not even- I'll do it Lucas Underwood: all day long. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. But I do have a problem with the computer basically told me number five cylinder." Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And- Absolutely. Lucas Underwood: 100% Cecil Bullard: Because I know having done this for a million years, right? Look at me, I look like I'm a million and a half. But that's a problem waiting to happen- It is ... if we don't have a clear what the cause is. Lucas Underwood: And I'm gonna tell you something. So there's this new and it relates to this question that's coming up right now, so leave the question up. There's apps now, like WhisperFlow, right? And so I can open this app on my phone, and I can dictate directly to it. Does an- ... excellent job of dictating what I'm saying, and even if I wanted to drop it into AI and have AI clean it up and make it more presentable, and I copy and paste it in, you're talking about 15, 20, 30 seconds of me describing- Yes through voice transcription what's going on with this car. So we're not talking about adding a lot of time. We're talking about converting the expertise of the technician To text on the repair order that the consumer could understand and that if, God forbid, you ever had to go to court the judge could read it and understand it. There are a ton of videos of court cases where- Yeah ... a technician is in court explaining what happened, right? And listen, I'm gonna tell you something, because this says, "Isn't it the technician's job to document all these things on the repair order?" A lot of it is, right? The initial stuff, in other words, where we're talking to the client, trying to understand what's happening, that is the service Cecil Bullard: advisor. Service advisor. St- begins the Lucas Underwood: story. But everything else... Exactly. The beginning of the story- Everything else does come to the tech ... Cecil Bullard: the beginning of the story and the end of the story are the service advisor. Lucas Underwood: Yes. Cecil Bullard: Okay? Lucas Underwood: 100%. Cecil Bullard: The middle is the tech. Today. Now, 20 years ago, that wasn't true. All right? Yeah. We didn't have systems where the techs could go in and put the story, and we still have a lot of shops where there's communication issues with the technician that they don't speak, English as a second language or a third language and they just- Yeah ... don't communicate very well. Yes, I want my technician documenting the tests they ran, what the outcomes were. And by, by the way, if, i- again, if you're working for me, let's say that we got an air conditioning system. I want documentation a problem with the air conditioning. Air conditioning doesn't cool. Blows hot air, right? Okay. When? All the time. All right, great. Now I wanna put the gauges on it. I wanna document the pressures. I wanna document- Vent temps ... the vent temps, et cetera, and I want someone to test drive it to verify that it's got hot air, right? Yeah. And under what conditions. All right? 100%, yeah. And a- and that's the tech is, that, that's going to do that for me. Now, we're gonna recommend we're gonna point to a cause. The compressor's bad, right? And we're gonna point to a cure, the fourth C. What's the cure? We're gonna replace the compressor. We're going to replace the condenser. We're gonna replace the I don't know what they have in POA valves- Orphus tubes ... or Orphus tubes or whatever we got today. And then we're gonna evac and recharge the system, right? That's the repair plan. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And in my opinion, the technician's the one that has to create the repair plan, okay? Yeah. And once we've done that- I want a retest of the system. Lucas Underwood: Yes. Cecil Bullard: I wanna know what's different. What were the pressures today- Yep ... when we drove it? And I wanna show by mileage that we actually drove the car. I don't- Yeah ... I want an in and out mileage on everything. Yeah. I don't care if you drove it just a mile test drive, so it came in at, I don't know, 143,000 miles and it left at 143,001. Yeah. But I want the finish of the story. Here's what happened after we fixed it. Yeah. Here's what it looks like. Here's what it feels like- You're exactly right ... today, right? Lucas Underwood: Yes. Cecil Bullard: And because I'm, what I'm doing is I'm also creating a story for the customer so they understand that I didn't just fix the air conditioning, right? Yeah. And I do that in quotes on purpose, right? Because if all I did was fix the air conditioning, what is that, right? Yeah. Oh, you put a little Freon in it. What does that take? Five minutes? Yeah. They make those little cans that you can go down to Pep Boys and buy, and you just put 'em on and turn 'em upside down- The bane of my existence ... and in five minutes the Freon's in the thing and you're done, right? No. We did all of this testing. We did this. We pulled these parts off. We put these parts on. The cleaner and the clearer the story- Yeah ... the less liability I have. If I have to go to court- The more value in the ticket ... or if I have to defend my... Yeah. If I have to defend myself- Yeah ... the more able I am to. And I, don't get me wrong, I don't wanna create a four-page story if there should be a half a page story. Yeah. I used to tell my techs, if you can tell me the service advisor. So when you're writing the work order, a- as a service advisor I always felt like I needed four pieces of information from my tech. One, tell me what's wrong. Okay? Tell me why it's wrong, right? Brakes are worn and need to be replaced. Okay? They're at two 30 seconds, one 30 second, metal to metal. Te- tell me that. Tell me the parts you need to do the job correctly. So is it pads? Yeah. Is it pads and rotors? Is it pads and rotors and a hardware kit? Is it pads, rotors, and a hardware kit, and calipers and hoses? What is it? And then tell me how much time you think it's gonna take. Yeah, for sure. I get that we have a book, and I understand- ... that the book is write X-tra Mile. But you're the one looking Lucas Underwood: at the car, not me. Yeah. I can't tell you how long it's gonna Cecil Bullard: take. You s- you see the fact that somebody has, you know- Yeah ... narfed up the bolts and et cetera, or there's rust or whatever. Tell me what you think and- Yeah ... and then I can create an estimate. And if I get those four pieces of information, they're clear enough, then I can create an estimate and sell that work to a customer. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: I have an... Here, so you gotta bring me back, man, 'cause I'll go, you know me, I'll go- Down the rabbit hole ... Lucas Underwood: way with Cecil Bullard: it. But I ha- I have customers that just they don't get that from the techs, and then the service advisor can't do their job properly. And what they want is for the service advisor to go out and look at the car. Yeah. I don't wanna go out and look at the car. In fact, there's a whole coaching company that's service advisors should be the ones looking at the car because then they can see..." Service advisor, if you're not a good- They're not the professional ... it's not their job and they're not the person. That's the job of the inspection of the car and the repair- Yeah ... plan for the car is the technician's job, Lucas Underwood: right? Exactly. And look, if you know how many times that I have worked with shops and somehow that advisor ends up walking out to the car, making a recommendation, saying, "We should do this, we should do that," used to be a technician. And it's this desire, it's like a curse of knowledge. I wanna fix this thing. I wanna help. I wanna show them I know what I'm talking about. And they get so overzealous that they end up making a mess. And so I think, somebody just dropped in the comments and said, "Hey, that's the responsibility of the shop to train the tech." Stop the Cecil Bullard: technician. Absolutely. I thought it was a- I got a comment I have to make. Matt Allen, go screw yourself, buddy. Lucas Underwood: I Cecil Bullard: thought that you were saying- I was in business for 27 years, and that whole time I ended up in court four times. All right? I went 13 times for different clients, and I've had thousands of clients. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: So buddy, you know- ... stop trying to yank my crank. Lucas Underwood: Diesel's, diesel does not Cecil Bullard: put up with any of that. And go screw yourself. Have a nice day. Oh, Lucas Underwood: that's awesome. Now, Cecil Bullard: where were we? Lucas Underwood: That's awesome. Okay. Cecil Bullard: Look- you wanted some fire, there's some fire, Matt. Lucas Underwood: You got the fire. Cecil Bullard: You can add that to your- This is gonna Lucas Underwood: be a real, Cecil Bullard: we're gonna chop this up to your internet and get some hits Cecil's a mean guy. Lucas Underwood: He's Cecil Bullard: an Lucas Underwood: idiot That's it. That's it Thank you very much. I, look I'm just gonna say that I think that overall when we look at this process, 'cause I just had a good talk with a friend of mine just I guess two nights ago, and he said, "Man," he said, "My technicians came to me and they said, 'Hey, we don't feel it's our responsibility to put all this information down. That's the front's responsibility.'" And I'm gonna tell you something, I, one of the biggest things that I've learned, and we... You remember Jeremy Hoyum? He's from Phoenix. And Jeremy is just such a phenomenal human being. And he was talking about this a while back, and he was talking about accountability, and he said... A- and let me explain. So he coaches 15, 16, 17, 18-year-olds into leaders, right? Because he was in the military, he came out of the military, and he went into the family entertainment space. And here he is, he's saying all this stuff, and he's trying to teach these kids how to work in a business and how to talk to people. And in today's world, I'm gonna tell you, that's a whole different ball game, right? It's a whole different ball game. Yeah. And he said, the failure..." And listen, he's worked for some massive organizations, right? Like- Yeah ... thousands and thousands of employees. Yeah. And this guy's in charge of training them. And he said, "The problem is that we don't have the conversation when it happens." And he said, "So listen-" Wait, well- Go ahead. Cecil Bullard: We are so great at- At picking up the pieces at the end. We're not really great at fixing the process- Definitely ... in the middle. Lucas Underwood: Exactly. Okay. So he tells this story. It's about taking the trash out, right? And he says so Tim is a new employee." And he said, "So Tim comes in and I trained Tim on how to do all the things." And he said, "At the end of the training, I talked to Tim about taking the trash out. 'Tim, you take all the other cans and you put them in this bag. You tie this bag up, you take it out, and you put it in the dumpster.'" And he said, "So Tim comes to work for me," and he said, "Here we are, it's four days in, Tim's taking out the trash every day, and I come in, and Tim didn't take the trash out." And I said but Tim's a nice guy. I really like Tim, and I don't wanna pick on him. I'll just take the trash out." And he said, so it goes on a little bit, and he said, "Three weeks later, Tim doesn't take out the trash again." He said, "Man, what is up with this kid? I've told him about this, and I need to go talk to him. I open the door and the place is full of people." He said, "I can't talk to Tim right now." He said, "So I forget about it. A few more weeks pass, and Tim forgets the trash again." He said, "Now I'm really upset. I'm frustrated. Why is this kid not taking the trash out? I've, Because I've had this experience, I'm thinking about it like Tim should be able to read my mind and know I'm frustrated, right?" And he said, "So what happens is here's Tim, and we're not taking the trash out, and I'm raging, and I sling my door open. Tim's not at work today. And so now the next time Tim doesn't take out the trash, I go and pull him aside and I rip him apart." And- "What were you thinking? You didn't take the trash out." Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And what I should have done is the first time the trash wasn't taken, I said, "Hey, Tim, what's the process? How do you do this?" Lucas Underwood: Exactly. "How often do you do this?" Exactly. He said there's only three answers. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: There's the right answer, a partial right answer, and there's the wrong answer. Yeah. And he said the partial right and the wrong answer are my fault, not Tim's, right? And Cecil Bullard: If you're if you're paying attention- Lucas Underwood: Yeah Cecil Bullard: and you're doing the right things, then your employees are gonna understand you're paying attention. They're much more likely to go ahead and do what needs to be done. Lucas Underwood: Exactly. Cecil Bullard: If you'd handled it in the beginning, you didn't have to get mad, right? Yeah. Lucas Underwood: And we, we- I talk a lot about- Cecil Bullard: Yeah Tim Kite. We struggle. Lucas Underwood: You remember Tim Kite? And I talk a lot about him. I've sent you a couple of his videos, and one of the things that Tim Kite said is, "You promote what you permit." Yeah. And so Tanner is in the comments. Tanner is the shop owner that I'm talking about. Yeah. And it's like Tanner gets distracted, and he goes and he wants to do all these new great big things. Now I'm over here doing this, now I'm over here doing this, now I'm over here doing this. But you weren't holding your team accountable. Yeah. And so if I'm not holding my team accountable, and if I'm not policing the work orders, and I'm not reviewing the work orders, and I'm not doing an audit, and I'm not checking in with my team and saying, "Hey, this didn't meet my expectation"- and if I continue to let it slide- Cecil Bullard: Yeah, and do you have it documented how the work order's sp- supposed to be written up? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: I don't know. I think mine is like seven pages with pictures of the order, why it's in that order how it's written up, whose responsibility is each piece of it, right? Yeah. And so that, and, is it the technician's job to do all of that? Eh, maybe s- maybe not. You might have a different process in your shop. Yeah. It's management's job to make sure everybody that's involved in the process understands clearly their part of the process- For sure ... and how to communicate clearly. Lucas Underwood: And that the process is efficient, right? Yeah. Like I, that's what I hear from so many technicians and so many advisors is, "Hey, our process does not flow. Our process does not work in our shop." And so nobody's looking at it. It's just we've always done it this way." Yeah. Okay. Let's work together to figure out how the process needs to work. And one of the greatest piece of visi- pieces of advice I've ever gotten was that repair order comes up and it's not right, it goes back, right? Cecil Bullard: Yes. Lucas Underwood: Yes. I'm not moving forward until it's fixed. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: I'm stopping right here right now. You're not going on to another car- Well- ... until you correct this repair order ... Cecil Bullard: you put quality control in place as part of your process. Yeah. So in our shop we had a parts guy. We felt like that was a value to us, and so we had a parts guy, so he was the first one to see the work order from the tech. If the inspection sheet, w- again, we're talking a few years ago, we didn't have DBIs, but if the sheet wasn't filled out properly and the estimate wasn't filled out properly, the tech got called in to redo it. Yeah. The work order didn't move. Yeah. And if that means the customer didn't get their car today- Oh right? Yeah. I know I've disappointed a lot of people about getting their car today. Sometimes because of parts, sometimes for other issues. Sometimes it's because my tech wasn't playing the game right, and we had to, send it back two or three times. Yeah. But the other thing is i- if you're willing to put that effort in and make sure that the job is done as efficiently and correctly as possible, and then you have quality control. When I first got to the last shop that I ran, I, for probably three months, I QC'd every work order- ... because it was so messed up. Yeah. At the end of three months, 95% of the work orders were going through fine. Yeah. The stories were good. The stuff was in the right order. The estimates were done. The inspection sheets matched the estimates. The service advisor had written everything up and presented everything, and the work order had the customer did not buy these things, here's why we recommended them- Yeah. Declined repairs ... at this time, right? Yeah. Declined repairs- Yeah ... et cetera. We had a very specific way all that was done. It was documented in a process. It was taught to everybody. It was retaught to everybody. It was quality controlled throughout. So the parts guy's the first guy to look, the second guy's the service advisor, the third guy's the manager, right? Yeah. And as a manager, after three months, I started pulling one day a week. Yeah. I didn't need to look at every work order because I had the other things in play. I only had to pull one day a week and look at them to make sure that we were still on target, right? Yeah. I'm l- I'm looking for pattern failure. I'm not looking for, oops, somebody made a mistake and missed one piece, right? Lucas Underwood: Exactly. Cecil Bullard: And- Exactly ... and so I'm trying, I'm always trying to identify pattern failure because pattern fails then get you in trouble, right? Lucas Underwood: I've got a question for you and see if this resonates with you, because this is something that when I first started really working on my shop and learning about how a shop should run and what a shop was supposed to do, that this was the biggest issue that I had, and I just wanna see if this resonates. When I put these processes, policies, and procedures in place, and I made a video about this just the other day, I oftentimes said, "Yeah Mrs. Smith's in a hurry, so I'm not gonna do that today," or, "This happened, so I'm not gonna do that today," or, "Oh, they can bring their own parts this time because I don't want to upset them And so I put processes, policies, and procedures in place, and as the business owner, I gave myself permission to override them because I- it was my name on the door, right? And I'll never forget, I had an employee come to me one time and "This is asinine. Why are we even, why do we even have rules if we're not gonna follow them?" I'm like I'm, but I'm the owner." And they were like but you put the rules in place, and that they're the, they're making the mess. Like, why are we doing this?" I Cecil Bullard: think, I think- And that made Lucas Underwood: so much sense ... Cecil Bullard: I think we need to be smart about exceptions, and I think there are exceptions. Yeah ... I have a rule that no owner supplied parts. None. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: But I have Mrs. Jones that's been a customer for 35 years. Her husband died five years ago. They brought their oil because, 25 years ago we let people bring their own oil. Yeah. And so she's just used to bringing her oil. I'm not gonna beat Mrs. Smith up about bringing her oil. I'm, you know- ... d- I'm paying back 35 years of a great customer- Of Lucas Underwood: loyalty, yeah ... Cecil Bullard: yeah, et cetera. And I think my staff would understand, yeah, we do have a rule. It is, the only exception is Mrs. Smith. So number one, few exceptions. Yeah. Number two, if you are the owner You have to abide by the rules better and more- Yes ... than anyone else in the business. If you're a manager, if you're a leader in that company, you abide by the rules better than anyone else. Yes. Because they're looking at you and they're saying that's a stupid rule. I don't know if I wanna do that. And wait, Lucas didn't do it." Yep. "If he doesn't have to do it, I don't have to do it." Yep. And pretty soon- Or every Lucas Underwood: staff ... Cecil Bullard: pretty soon there's no process. Lucas Underwood: Yep. Cecil Bullard: And pretty soon- It's not a rule anymore your average repair order's dropped- A suggestion ... your productivity's dropped. Yeah, and you're just not making money the way that you should. You're not profitable the way that you should. Lucas Underwood: And it's chaos, right? Yeah. It's pure chaos because now the standard that we're supposed to be operating by is no longer functioning. And if we continue to break that and we continue to say, "Yeah, but. Yeah, but. Yeah, but." And look I have exceptions too. Yeah. But we've gotten really good about "Hey, let's have a discussion about this exception and make sure we all agree that this exception is reasonable and rational," right? Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: I love the- Let's not just jump at it ... Cecil Bullard: yeah, I love the, I'll tell someone, "No waiters." Waiters are not... It's not in your favor to have a waiter in your shop. They're not thinking right, they're not in the right place. But again, I have Mrs. Jones, who's always waited for her car. Yeah. She's got nowhere else to be. Being at the shop is an exciting thing for her. Yeah. Because otherwise she's sitting at home, staring at the walls. And- Yeah ... and so yeah, I'm gonna let Mrs. Jones come in and wait. And that's... And I've also got somebody who, their car broke down on the road and they're with the car, and they don't have an option. They've got a car, they've gotta be somewhere, we're fixing the car, they're gonna sit around and wait. They're... Yeah, I'm gonna let them wait. They... We need to have common sense. Lucas Underwood: Yes. Cecil Bullard: But we also need to have policies and processes that are followed 99% of the time, right? By everybody. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And that's what, that's what creates efficiencies in your business. If it, if done right- It's a ballet, right? Yes. Yeah. The call is answered right, the customer feels good about coming to, they feel like you care about 'em, they feel like you've listened to them et cetera. They show up, you're there to greet 'em, shake their hand, say hi, pump up the shop and why, talk about your unique selling proposition. Ask them questions so that you are sure that you understood what the situation is, what their out- desired outcome is, what their problem is. Document that properly so the technician can pick it up. If necessary, and I can't... If I have to write a five-page story for the tech I'm probably not writing that five-page story. That's the one that I'm gonna write a one-page story, and then I'm gonna go out and talk to the tech about. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Yeah. " Cecil Bullard: Hey, I just wanted you to know, here's some strange things or different things," or whatever. And then the tech gets the work order and knows what to do and documents the stuff properly, beginning, middle, and end. And then it goes to the, in our shop, the parts guy, who then verified that we made our profit and that we stayed within the estimates that we talked to our customer about, and et cetera. And then the service advisor gets it and verifies again that the parts are done right, the margins are there, the stories are correct, the spelling is 99% good, the grammar is 99% good. Yeah. That two years from now, somebody picks this up, they know what happened. If a w- a, a a wife takes that home to her husband and hands it to her husband, he could read it and understand- Yes. Yeah ... not just what was done, but why it was done, and create value there, or vice versa. If a husband takes it home to his wife, right? I'm not being misogynist here. I'm literally saying there are often- Yeah ... other people involved. That work order could go- Yeah ... in any one of a number of people's hands, and Lucas Underwood: my- And they need to be able to understand it. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Yeah, my story. Lucas Underwood: And same for me, right? That's a major thing for me, because there's nothing more embarrassing than that car coming back a year later. Yeah. And me standing here saying, "I wish I could tell you why we did what we did or why I thought we needed to do that," or whatever it may be, but I can't. Cecil Bullard: You know what I r- ... what I really hate? I've got a customer standing in front of me, and the customer says "Hey how are my tire pressures?" And I look down And there's no tire pressure recorded Lucas Underwood: So embarrassing. Cecil Bullard: Or, how are my bra- I thought my front brakes might be bad. Oh, no, it says here your front brakes are good. Well- They're green ... how much is l- how much is left, right? The I don't have the information I need, even right at my counter. I took my truck in the local Goodyear, and I said, "Align it. ... You're putting tires on it, align it. The tires are worn." We put I put brakes with what it drilled and slotted rotors. Yeah. I spent big money and put tires on it at the same time, said, "Align it and check it out w- when you do the service," right? When I come back and the guy says I said, "There, there's nothing here on the inspection. Nothing." And he goes you only have 43,000 miles. It's probably fine." Lucas Underwood: It's probably fine. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And I said, "And you didn't align it." It was close enough." I'm not a close enough guy. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And- Lucas Underwood: Close enough counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And I ended up taking my truck somewhere else, and they did the alignment, and they bought, for the rear part of it, they had to buy whatever to make the alignment work and, the- Yeah ... I don't know, I spent another $1,200 on this thing that... And at the same time, I'm at the Goodyear, they're complaining about how bad business is, right? You could've got another 1,200 bucks out of me- Yeah ... if you'd have done it right. Lucas Underwood: How much of that, though, okay, so let's go back to Michael Smith for a minute. How much of that is culture? How mu- Well- ... like if in your shop, because in my shop I walk out here and I talk to these guys. Their focus is taking care of the client. Their focus is being an advocate for the client, because that's what we talk about. That's what we do. Yeah, and- That's what we believe Cecil Bullard: in ... and do they understand what that really means in the day-to-day operation- Yeah ... have I- ... it's one thing for me to say we're here to take care of the client." It's another thing for me to have the systems and processes in play that get taught and that my people really understand what that means. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. E- exactly, and my thing is, "Hey, if you don't understand this and you don't know why we're doing what we're doing, let's talk about it as a team," right? But you look at some of these other shops, and I've talked to a lot of guys from those other shops, and what do they say? It's the only thing they talk to us about is money and production. Yeah. That's all they talk about. And the advisor's over here saying, "I'm not gonna get my bonus if you don't get this done," and the technician's saying I'm not gonna get a bonus anyway. I get paid flat rate, and you're not giving me enough work," and it becomes this dog-eat-dog thing. There's a whole- As opposed to the focus being taking care of the client ... Cecil Bullard: there's a whole methodology for running an automotive business and making it as efficient and creating the best culture that you can in the business. And then there's, it, there's a lot involved, but there really isn't, right? Yeah. You could say geez, I have to think about hiring and my hiring message, and I need to have, a employee requisition form because I need to know what the skillsets and the traits are that I need from the new employee so they fit into my culture. And I need to have a good interview process and then I need to have a good training process, and I need to have the processes to train on," right? "And then I need this and I need this and I need this." And I think for a lot of guys, they're just trying to get the job done so they can get the money so they can pay the bills. And a- as you said in the beginning of this or in, in early parts of this, we're- We miss the, like we don't fix the problem when the problem should be fixed. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. We- we're really good at saying, "I can't do that I can't have that conversation right now because there's people." Okay. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Then let's go for a walk, right? Yeah ... I'll go for a walk 100 yards away from everybody else. I'll have the conversation about the trash cans and taking the trash out. Yeah. I don't... Or I'll put it on my calendar for tomorrow and say, "Can you meet me in my office at 10:00 so that we can have a-" Yeah. "I need to speak to you for 10 minutes," right? Yeah. We, w- we are so often, overwhelmed with making the money and just trying to make sure that the bills are paid that we miss some of the really important pieces. And it is, once you have the team on track and you have the culture, it makes it a lot easier. Yeah. When you have the processes, it makes it a lot easier. If you create consistent communication, company meetings at the right times well-defined it makes it easier, right? Yeah. And with every little thing that you are able to put in place, everything that you're able to fix, every time you do that, it makes it easier, and you're also more likely to get the outcome that you want. Yeah. Which frankly it isn't all about money. It has to be somewhat about money because if I can't- Yeah ... pay my bills, then I'm working all the time- ... and I'm not home, and my head's not in the game a- at home, and I need that too. Lucas Underwood: I'm gonna tell you something. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: I talk to a lot of shop owners. I talk to a lot of- ... technicians, and I talk to a lot of service advisors And they all believe that one of those others is looking at what they can get from them, right? Yeah. The shop owner's looking at how much money you can make me. The advisor's looking at how many hours you can turn and what I can get out of the deal, and the technician's looking at how many hours he's gonna get on his ticket. And you know the interesting thing about it, Cecil, is when I talk to them individually, none of them actually want that. None of them actually believe that. They just want to come to work. They wanna earn a good living. Sure. They don't want it to be stressful. They don't want it to be aggravating. They don't want it to be a mess. They don't wanna get yelled at by a client. They don't wanna get yelled at by a coworker. They just want to live a good life, right? Cecil Bullard: The point i- in a way is first of all, I always say this: automotive service and repair is a team sport. Lucas Underwood: Yes. Yes. Cecil Bullard: The service advisor is not more important than the tech, and the owner is not more important than the service advisor or the tech. Yeah. And the kid that cleans the floors and takes the trash out, whoever that is- ... or the old per- old guy that does. Who knows- Yeah ... I, my next career. That, that person is just as important. I- if we all- Yeah ... play our roles and do our thing, we're all gonna be fine. Lucas Underwood: You're exactly right. Remember what Zig Ziglar said? He said years ago, and he said the CEO could leave for a month and nobody would notice." Cecil Bullard: Yeah. " Lucas Underwood: But if the lady who answers the phone were to leave for a month, the place would fall apart." Cecil Bullard: Fall apart. Lucas Underwood: Because the director of first impressions was no longer present, right? And you need- And we just miss it. We Cecil Bullard: just- Yeah ... Lucas Underwood: don't see Cecil Bullard: it. And you also need to cross-train because you are gonna have people that are gonna be out, and so- Yeah ... it, the- Like I said, to me, running a shop and a successful shop is really fairly easy. Yeah. There's, th- there's always gonna be some issue. "Hey, our car count's down. Hey, our average repair order's dropped." Okay. If you have the methodologies in place to measure and the methodologies in place to manage, then you're gonna be okay, right? Lucas Underwood: That's it. You'll make it through the- As long as you'll learn, right? Yeah. As long as you're willing to open your mind, do a little bit of research, learn from people who have been there before because, there's way smarter people out there than me, and I don't need to- See- reinvent the wheel. Cecil Bullard: You see this flat spot on my head? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: So that's from banging it against the wall way too many times. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: So we haven't covered all five Cs. Lucas Underwood: Yeah, we got one more. One Cecil Bullard: more. So we have the cause and the correction. I need a confirmation of the correction in my write-up. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Test drove the car 23 miles, verified that it's running properly, the temperatures are at X degrees. The, the gauges are fine. The light's not on. Yeah. Yada, yada, yada. Because when that customer leaves, if they have another problem, they come back, I want it well-defined what we did, and I wanna know, is that my problem, or is that not my problem? Yeah. Because cars break, thank God, right? They break- Yeah ... and otherwise I wouldn't have a job. I wouldn't have a place to be. Yeah. So I think you're reading- Sure ... the comments. There's a pretty long one that came in. Lucas Underwood: I like that because that is my belief as well, and I know it's yours as well, is I feel like- Yeah Personally feel like flat rate for technicians and commission for advisors are the worst things that can be implemented. And I understand there's gives and takes of that, right? I- Yeah ... I know. But a lot of these guys, and so I posted this in some groups that have a lot of dealer technicians in it- I'm gonna tell you something, Cecil. The only answer I have at this point is leave the dealer, right? Yeah. That's the only answer I have for you. Because a- as I'm talking to these dealer guys, it's not fair. Okay? Cecil Bullard: No. Lucas Underwood: The way they're treated is not fair, there's no doubt about it. Cecil Bullard: I'm sure there's a dealership or two out there- Yeah that do a really good job and treat their people very fairly. There's not enough. And there just aren't enough. Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: every time I teach a service advisor class or a management class, I'll have somebody come up to me and they'll say, "Yeah, Cecil, I know that all sounds good, but my owner won't let me do X, Y, and Z." Yeah. "My owner won't. My owner won't won't follow the rules," et cetera. And I have a comment. Your owner sent you to me. I can't badmouth your owner. On the other hand, you have to decide what you're willing to work with and what you're not willing to work with. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And so if you're... what's the minimum level of, Acceptable ... of incompetence I'm willing- Yeah ... acceptable level of incompetence I'm willing to put up with? And if you are good at what you do, if you're a good service advisor, if you're a good tech, oh, my God- Get a job ... the sky's the limit right now, right? You can go to... I could send you to th- three different recruiting companies that would get you a fantastic job with great pay tomorrow, right? Yeah. And, Pay how Lucas Underwood: you wanna get paid. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: In the environment- Cecil Bullard: Et cetera ... you Lucas Underwood: wanna be in. Cecil Bullard: And I would say, you know- The problem with flat rate and the problem with hourly there's problems on both sides of that. There is no pay plan that is perfect except a blended pay plan that allows for as they produce, as they do what they, you want them to, they can make more money. But the base- Yeah ... has got to be a substantial base. We know that from Maslow. If we're not able to- Yeah ... take care of our people and have them feel comfortable working for us, like they're gonna be able to pay the bills and once, maybe once a week get a steak or something then we're not taking care of our people properly. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And we're not charging what we need to charge to do that. Whatever that is, it has to be fixed, right? Lucas Underwood: Exactly. Cecil Bullard: You're- or we're gonna, or we're gonna not attract and keep good people in our industry. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. And, here's what I keep hearing is that, "Oh we've got these warranty times," and, "Hey, I don't get paid for going out. 'Hey, can you go out and check the tire pressure in this? Can you go out and read the codes in this? Can you go do this and go do that?' And it's not on the ticket anywhere, and I'm not... and like I'm compensated by flat rate, so you're basically stealing my time." And Cecil Bullard: that's not right. I would agree 100%. That's why you need- Yeah ... a good base, because if I ask you to, if you need to go help one of your fellow workers, I want you to be able to do that and not feel like you're getting punished, right? Yeah. Lucas Underwood: Yes. Cecil Bullard: And, a- and so pay plans is a whole nother it's another meeting, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: It's another podcast. Lucas Underwood: It's a... I think that we all believe that we have to change this industry. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: We have to make this industry different than what it's been. Your whole belief system is I have to make a change because I want this to be different when I leave it because of the efforts that I made, right? And I think we all feel that way. We want this industry to be better. And here's the thing that frustrates me the most, is that we've got to pull these people along with us. Yeah. So many of them are jaded. So many of them are aggravated. So many of them are frustrated. And so I'm saying, "Hey, we've got to work together and share a message that resonates with everybody, and we've got to move the industry." Because when David and I started the podcast, one of the discussions was is like, we weren't... "How are you guys gonna make a difference? You're not gonna reach that many people." And we said but if we reach one person and we made their life better and they got a little bit better, and maybe they could impact somebody else." If somebody doesn't take action, nothing ever changes. And I think that's where our industry has been stuck for so many years. And so I commend you for what you're doing with everything you're doing right now to genuinely make the change, not just talk about making the change, but genuinely make the change. Cecil Bullard: I got a limited time. I don't know what it is, the older I get, the shorter that window seems to be, and we're not there yet. We got a lot to do. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. And like- Cecil Bullard: And Andrew Andrews, you- if you wanna reach out to me I'd be more than happy to spend an hour and go through pay plans and systems because we have 'em, I have thousands of shops using them. They're fantastic. They're great. Yeah. Technicians make good money. Get the desired result. Yeah. Techs make great money, service advisors, the shop, et cetera. It's not the end of the world. So I... We got the five Cs, right? Yep. The the customer's concern, the confirmation of the concern, the cause, the cure, and the confirmation of the cure. So we- Yeah ... we did what we promised here. And if you guys need to You know, like I said the institute, we're here to help, and sometimes that's... We've got stuff online, we've got stuff on YouTube- Yep ... that you don't have to pay big money. We have we have gear4shops.com. We have, Yep Auto Academy. It's not always, "I gotta pay." Yeah. 100%. A lot of the stuff we do is let's help you, and maybe at some point you say, "Wow, they did a good job helping us, and so now we wanna- Yeah ... sign up for coaching," or whatever. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. And look, I'm gonna tell you, this data is good data for technicians too, okay? Yep. I see a lot of these guys going out and starting their own shops and they don't have any knowledge or any experience. Their dream's to start their own shop, and do this thing on their own, and show the world how to fix the industry by doing it themselves. And so I just wanna say hey, if you're a technician, go consume this data now, right? Even if you don't wanna- Yeah ... start a shop. Go- Cecil Bullard: yeah. Lucas Underwood: Well- Go learn about this right now ... Cecil Bullard: but understand how you're paid, and why you're paid, and how that works, and how what the shop charges, and how what you do makes a difference on that. Yeah. Because i- if you can't understand, then it's gonna be difficult for you, and you're never gonna make the kinda money that you wanna make. You're j- it's not gonna happen for Lucas Underwood: you. Amen. Cecil Bullard: So the more you know, the better prepared you'll be. Lucas Underwood: Amen. Amen. Cecil Bullard: I made a decision 1,000 years ago, when I started to be as, to get as much information and to just know much about this business as I could. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And it has paid off in spades for me. Lucas Underwood: Amen. Cecil Bullard: Just as a tech, as a service advisor, as an owner, as a consultant. That effort, that choice that I made, 35, 45 years ago- Lucas Underwood: Paid big dividends, didn't it? ... Cecil Bullard: changed everything, so- Lucas Underwood: Yep ... Cecil Bullard: do the same. Lucas Underwood: See- Thank you for being here. Yes, sir. Cecil Bullard: Love you, brother. You know that, right? Lucas Underwood: Love you, brother. Y'all be good- Yes, sir ... and we can't wait to see you at the next AMA. Cecil Bullard: Yes, sir.

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