Young Technicians Aren’t the Problem. Bad Mentorship Is. | Phil Ubinger & Hunter Jackson - Ep 39

0:00You can't use my brain to do your work. Come to me with some solutions. You're definitely going to have questions. I want to hear the questions. And then when people say there's no such thing as a stupid question, yes, there is. But if you let people do that, if you let a technician do that, a service advisor, even the parts person, then how do they learn?

0:21Welcome to Downshift with Tanika Haynes, the Automotive Auntie. The thing about Tanika, She gets to know you. She'll laugh and cut up with you, but then she'll hit you with some knowledge that you may not want, but that you need. Let's downshift. So yeah, I was just chatting it up with Phil and talking about, you know, why I wanted to do this.

0:48And it is today we're going to talk about mentorship and how it matters. In our industry, mentorship is important. Like, every day I hear people talking about young people not wanting to work, uh, technicians are impossible to find, and nobody wants to learn. The future of the industry is— industry is doomed, it's all over. And I don't believe any of that. I mean, some of it is true, you know, people are scared to come into the industry, but I think it's an internal problem.

1:15Um, but I do know there's a lot of young people that are still wanting to learn, and I think it's important that we have experienced techs that are caring enough to want to teach and mentor the young technicians who are hungry to learn. So I just wanted to highlight that story today. Is that cool? Yeah, absolutely. Go to town. That sounds good.

1:38That sounds good. Okay. So, um, Hunter, let me find out about you first. Why, why automotive? Um, that's a good question. Uh, to be honest, I wanted to be a car designer growing up. I've always liked cars. And then I had a really bad drafting teacher in high school and it kind of left a sour taste in my mouth. And I was like, well, I like cars, so I guess I'll go to school to be a mechanic.

2:05And just the rest is history. And then I actually decided I was in a rough place, just a stagnant job. I just wasn't— I thought I wanted to get out of the industry, long story short. And I was doing engineering, mechanical engineering through Wake Tech full-time on top of school for about a year there. And then I switched jobs and then, and actually that's how I met Phil.

2:37And then all of a sudden, what do you know? I switched jobs. My passion was reborn and I sadly quit the school part. I should have just kept with it reflecting back on it, but it would've been 5 years full-time school. On top of work. And I buckled down, you know, said, hey, that if I'm gonna quit this school, I need to make a career out of this automotive mechanic stuff.

3:05And buckled down, learned substantial amounts from Phil and others at Carey Car Care, and got all my ASEs, you know, just Scanner, danner, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah kind of thing. So you're like self-motivated. Sounds like a lot of people. Yeah, I think I'm self-motivated to a degree sometimes. And I think it's just more of a— I realize like if I'm going to quit this school, I need to buckle up and put on my big boy pants if I want to provide for my family.

3:43So when you first started at Carey Car Care, like what were you hoping to learn there? Was that just a job because you're just needed a job, or did you— had you already made that mind switch that this is what I really want to do? Um, so I did my last— my job before Care Car Care was— he was— or it was a great shop, but it was just stagnant, and I was just there trying to put this in a better term.

4:15It was just stagnant and it just wasn't for me at the current season of my life. And I just wasn't as internally motivated. And I switched because I wasn't in the right mindset. And Kerry Car Care wasn't— it was supposed to be partially a job, but I was more so looking for a home and just seeing where that took me. And then I realized, hey, this automotive industry has more good people in it that what to teach and aren't worried about pure production, money, money, money kind of thing.

4:51Yeah, those things are important because we got to pay the bills and cut your check, but you definitely need to pour into your employees. That's important. Um, and I wish more shop owners would learn that. It is something that you have to continuously learn, but I think a lot of shop owners are looking at the wrong KPIs at certain times. So Phil, Dr.

5:09Phil, tell us a little bit about your journey. How long have you been at Carey Auto Care? How long have you been in the industry? Well, I, um, I've been at Carey Car Care since, uh, 2005. Okay, so 20, 21 years. Um, I've been in the industry since 1984, graduated high school. During high school, I went halfway through, half a day through high school and half a day at the vo-tech, and I learned automotive while I was in high school.

5:39Um, I had all my ASEs within, I would probably say within 6 months of graduating high school. And so I, I understood that ASEs were important to me and I, I kind of wanted, I kind of wanted to be around people who thought ASEs were important to them. Um, so I kind of, I always kind of, you know, promoted the idea of getting your ASEs.

6:07Um, and I, I worked in Pennsylvania. I, I mean, I grew up in Pennsylvania, and then I moved from there to Florida, and then from Florida to North Carolina. And I've just been doing it in a variety of different shops. I've worked in very large shops, small shops. I gravitated mostly to the family-owned smaller shops, but, you know, throughout my career, I just had— sometimes I just had to work where I had to work.

6:31Um, landing at Carey Car Care was a huge thing for me, for my family. Um, it was close to home. It was 5 days a week. It was— oh, it was, it was a place that understood that family was important to them. Um, and BJ and Kelsey were not owners at that time. They were much, much younger. I mean, take 25, 22 years off of Kelsey's age.

6:59I mean, it puts her near high school, probably. Don't do that. Don't do that. Um, so we already know what to do. We've been to the trainings, paid for the coaching, learned the right way to inspect cars, build estimates, and talk to our customers. That's not the problem. The problem is consistency, because some days it only works when the right person is working, and when they're not, it's a whole different shop.

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8:41Check it out at techmetric.com or tap the link in the show notes. You know, so I was, I was employed by her father. And he had a strong family. Um, I can't think of the word, but like, it was important. Family was really important to him. So when family things came up with me, he understood. And throughout my 20-some years, the whole, the whole family thing has been really strong.

9:14Um, for, for a very long period of time, there was only 2, uh, technicians that were ASE certified. Um, and then Hunter showed up. I don't remember what year you showed up. I think it was 2022. 2022. He got his ASEs in a very short period of time. I would say, I can't remember, I would say probably within a year. Yeah, I got 8 within, I think it was like 8.

9:42Yeah, because I did 2 every 2 months. Yeah, so within a year of him being there You know, after being there for almost 20 years, there was only 2 of us were ASE certified master technicians. And then Hunter shows up, and within 1 year, he's— he was a master tech, and he dedicated himself to becoming one. That's when, for me, like, the light turned on.

10:06Like, this guy cares about his career, he cares about his future, he cares about the industry. And it was, it was an easy thing to, for me to, to help him. It was just easy. Um, so that's my, that's my journey to becoming his mentor. So he says. I think he's very proud to say that. He was excited for you guys to have this conversation.

10:37But for Phil, I want to know who mentored you. Did you have a mentor coming up? I— the, the very first person that jumps into my head is my very first job. It was at a local tire shop, and the guy was— I can't even think of his name, but the guy was— I was probably 18, maybe 19, 18, 19. He was probably in his mid-20s.

11:07And he, he was like, he was just, he was just like a chill person. He wasn't like, like uber focused on grinding out the hours. And he wasn't, um, you know, like all about me, me, me. He was just like a chill person. And if I asked him questions, he would, he would take the time to answer them. And shortly after I was there, maybe a year after I was there, he moved on to another shop, and then shortly after that, I, I moved away.

11:39So that's the only person that I can think of that was— that what I could say would be a mentor. Um, and throughout my career, I did, I did bounce around a lot. Like, this was the '80s and the '90s, and you— it was, it was difficult to advance in a shop if there was somebody there who was a little bit older than you, a little bit more experienced than you.

12:05I was young, 18, 19, 20 years old, and finding a shop that I could advance in was not easy. So the, the, the, the idea was your toolbox has wheels, so if it's not working out where you are, go find another one. And that's kind of the way I had to work through the early parts of my career. So that guy was the only guy that, that I kind of hung with for about a year and everybody else, all the other shops, there was just lots and lots of transition throughout the years.

12:35Lots of transition. Um, well, you talked about how that at the other shops that the senior tech or the lead tech, you knew if he was going to be there, that there was no room for you to grow. Do you think that that's because the shop owners didn't invest in your growth or that the guy was possibly threatened? By you taking his place?

12:57I think that makes sense. Both. A little bit of both. I think it's both. Yeah. The shop owners, they have to lean on what they know, right? So if you have, if you have a guy that's been there for 5, 10 years and, and he's a, he's a constant, like he's somebody who can crank out the, the, the, the expected amount of hours and, and we could talk about that too, but, um, We'll talk about it all, Phil.

13:21Talk about it all. And then that guy is somebody who shows up every day. He does the job. He does good quality work. Well, they're going to lean on him. I mean, it's only natural, right? And to the early years for me, it really felt like I had to cut my teeth. Like you were not really respected. You were respected, but you really didn't get the group respect, like the shop respect, the camaraderie respect from the other guys.

13:49Until you, you know, you had to really grind it out. You had to have some really tough jobs that you scratched your head on for days, and you had to really fight hard and work hard to try to get, you know, hours and stuff. And then, then they were like, okay, you were down in the trenches where we used to be. Now you're working your way out.

14:09And I think that whole mentality, um, needs to change, and I hope it is changing. But well, if it would change, in my opinion, then you would have more people like your mentee here, Hunter, that can come in there and grow. Because I mean, honestly, how long can you sit there and be the top dog at the shop before it starts to wear on your mind and your body and your spirit?

14:36I'm no spring chicken. I might talk a good game, but at about a certain time of the day, Miss Tanika is just as dumb and tired as she could be. So if I were not— for me, it's my front office staff. If I didn't step out the way and say, okay, let me see if they can do it down and not try to be the top dog and say, oh, I'm, I'm— and not let ego get in the way and edge other people out.

14:57Ego edging others out, whatever. Um, I mean, I think that's part of the industry problem. Like, we've got the head mechanics, the, the big dogs, very, very seasoned technicians that don't either have— they have the ego problem, or they just don't have the patience to train up the next generation. Or they're not putting them through the hazing. For example, it's not hazing because that sounds a little crazy and cruel, but there is a little bit of hazing that has to go on in the shop.

15:26You know, you gotta— everybody's got to get old— an oil bath, right? And then, you know, why wouldn't you feel— Hunter comes in the shop and he's, he's got the young strong gristle because he doesn't have bone yet, he's just got cartilage, um, and you're making him do the heavy lifting. But while he's doing that heavy lifting for you, he's also learning.

15:43Does that make sense? So Hunter, when did you realize that Phil wasn't just training you, he was being your mentor? Because that's more than just teaching somebody how to do a job properly. That's a whole 360. Like, when did you figure out like, this, this is, this is my mentor? Um, that's a good question. Probably I realized whenever I was first there, the way Kerry Car Care is kind of set up.

16:09Um, I would say like, we'll say 3 quarters of the shop is on one side of the building and then the other one quarter is on what we call, I called it Phil's side of the building. Oh yeah. Which side? Because I've been there before. Which side is your side, Phil? It's the upper side. The upper side. You're on the upper side.

16:29The Upper West Side. Yeah. And so after I got, uh, finished my onboarding and all that stuff, I got moved upstairs with Phil. And it, for the most part, I mean, that everyone comes in to check on you and the alignment rack's up there, so you talk to everyone all the time. But for the most part, it's just Phil and I 80, 90% of the time.

16:56Um, and so we'd always, you know, just start cracking jokes, you know. Give it. And he was the older guy, so I'd always go to him for help because he's right beside me. And regardless, it just— when I learned that, like, whenever I would try to go to him to cherry-pick for answers, which I've got a bad habit of doing, it's just something of my generation.

17:20I try to cherry-pick for answers of a, like, a difficult diagnosis or, like, explaining, like, a shortcut or something. He would answer my question with a question and drive me insane. But in hindsight, I've reflected back on it after the end of the day. I'm like, huh, that really made me critically think and actually learn versus when you cherry pick for answers and then you get handed the cherry.

17:47You learn something, but you don't learn as much. Right. That's one thing I told my son. I was telling Phil before you logged in is everybody gets tired of hearing about Jordan. I don't care. That's my baby. Um, he's getting out of the Mercedes drive program. He's going to be working at Mercedes in Cary. And one thing that I told him is they're slow right now because the other one of his friends staying with me now, he's like, they're slow.

18:10I say, dude, I need you to get in there and find a mentor. You get in there and you find a tech that's been there for a long time. And Jordan can make friends with any and everybody. You know, Jordan can talk to a fish if he wanted to. I said, get in there and get under the wing of someone that's seasoned.

18:24That wants— that respects the industry and wants to teach. Now, everybody's not set out for teaching, I know that. Oh my goodness. Um, but I'm sure— I hope that he can find somebody in there that could help him learn how to think critically, because you nailed the— um, you hit it on the head when you said your generation. And how old are you, Hunter?

18:46Um, 29. 29. You're, you're not a baby, but you're still a little spring chicken. My son's only 20, 20 years old. But what I do know, not in my household. There's a lot of coddling that happened in a couple generations, and it kind of came into the workforce. And so, um, even though we don't want to have the responsibility, there are people like me and Phil that kind of have to— you know, they call me Automotive Auntie.

19:15We have to auntie and uncle you. And so sometimes that's more than just talking about that repair procedure. It's talking about confidence and work ethic and communication. So it's a lot more than technical ability that makes a great employee. How much of that do you think you picked up from Phil? Um, I think Phil was a part of it for sure, but I mean, I, when my, so I first started out in a dealership changing oil.

19:42Um, and I hadn't grown up yet. I was immature. I was, I had some work ethic, but, you know, if I didn't have anything to do, I'd be sitting there on my phone. You know, I'd still be doing good work, but I wasn't like uber motivated. And then I got— I was part-time because I was going to automotive school at the time, and I got let go.

20:05And the tool guy got me a job at this independent shop. This is before Kerry Car Care. And that owner of the shop, he was kind of old school in a way of, if I'm paying you hourly, you need to be working. You're not sitting on your phone. I'm not saying like, hey, I need to be— you need to be working the whole entire day.

20:27You can stop, you know, talk to your wife or talk to your girlfriend or whatever. But he was really kind of hard on me and kind of said like, hey, like, you don't want me to give you something to do? Like, he wasn't trying to be mean about it, but he said, my busy work's gonna be a lot worse than Your idea of busy work.

20:47And that sounds like me. That's how I am with my guys. Like, you don't want me to find something to do. Like, if you see me walk by, you better be busy. Yeah. I mean, I think he wasn't being mean. He was just telling you the truth though. You're on the clock. Yeah. Yeah. And it kind of taught me that work ethic of, hey, this is what it means to be a professional.

21:05Hey, we, when you're done with, you know, a job, you know, clean the engine bay, you know. Uh, the way— this is how you talk to customers, this is how you do this. And it was a critical part of my foundation. Um, and then Phil just kind of built off that, I guess you could say. And it also helps that I've always— I've tried to do my best to help others, and so that kind of mindset always translates into the automotive world in terms of trying to do a good job and trying to learn.

21:43Did you ever think when Phil— like, I don't think Phil comes off like this. I've never met Phil before. Seems like a pleasant guy. But there was ever a time you was like, you know what, this guy's getting on my nerves? Yeah, Phil got on my nerves from time to time. I mean, whoa, whoa, whoa. That's not what she said. I mean, Most of the time we had our moments.

22:06I mean, we never had any negative, super negative moments, but I mean, when you're essentially there 50 hours a week and you're working with this guy, not everything's gonna be sunshine and daisies, right? 24/7. I mean, we had a lot of great times, but I think 98, 99% of the time we would always have a good time. And if he was watching what he was obsessed with, sailing videos at the time, I would always give him grief about sailing videos.

22:35And if I watched my fantasy football show or something like that, podcast, he'd give me grief about the podcast, you know. Hey, this is Tanika from Downshift with Tanika. The ASTA Expo 2026 takes place here in Raleigh, North Carolina, September 24th through 26th. The expo is an investment in you, whether you're a service advisor, shop owner, manager, technician. ASTA has something for you.

23:00I am a testimony to what training, continuous education, and being connected to the right community can do for you and your business. Sometimes we get so caught up in the day-to-day, we forget that we need to grow too. So get out of your own way, step outside of your shop, meet new people, learn something, learn something new, invest in yourself. Make plans to be at ASTA Expo 2026 and use our podcast code for $25 off.

23:27That code is DOWNSHIFT25, and that again is $25 off of registration. Remember, ASTA is for you. Come learn, come connect, come grow, and I'll see you at the expo. Oh, that sounds like healthy banter. So looking back, I got one question. Like, Hunter, what was the piece of criticism that Phil— like, what was a criticism that you guys maybe bumped head on that, that actually helped you the most?

23:54Like something that you couldn't see that Phil saw and you were kind of stubborn with it that maybe helped you the most? And it still continues to stick with you now? Overthinking things and that, hey, I need to have some confidence in myself and that I can do this kind of thing. Not that I couldn't do it, but I've always just kind of lacked confidence to a degree.

24:18And so the silly things like whenever you'd answer my questions with questions like, dude, you know this. Stop overthinking things, you know, kind of thing. Just the whole answering questions with questions to subliminally help build confidence kind of thing. So feel like constructive criticism, a lot of people can't take that, and it's a lost art. Like, people are really sensitive now. It sounds like, um, the first person you talked about, Hunter, sounds like the way my dad ran his shop.

24:49I mean, he wasn't— I mean, he's still alive and with us, but he wasn't a He will— he is a hard-ass, but he was right all the time, and there was not a lot of sugar with it. Um, but sometimes people are really sensitive to constructive, constructive criticism. I think it's like a whole lost art. Phil, how do you correct somebody without taking away all of their confidence?

25:11Like, there's— I can't imagine there's some senior techs or lead techs or whatever that are just talking to these young kids like they're the dumbest thing since, like, you know, They're dumb as boxes of rocks. Like, how do you do that? How do you correct somebody without discouraging them? Well, with, with, just to be clear, um, there weren't very many technicians that, that I latched onto and latched in the, in the, in the technician latched onto me.

25:41Um, and, and it's mostly because of who Hunter is and what he brought to the table. So, how do I do constructive criticism? Well, it's— I guess it's part of my parenting. I have 3 children. One of them is almost Hunter's age. So, a lot of times, I would just say stuff to Hunter that I would normally say to my children. Like, he would ask me a question and I might go, Dude, we talked about this yesterday.

26:15Did you forget? You know, and I would just like, I would just like kind of be like right there, like, did you forget? What do you mean? I'd be like, well, we did this and we did this and we did this. And he'd be like, well, this is a little different. I'd be like, no, it really isn't. It's pretty much the exact same thing we talked about yesterday.

26:30Yeah. So I would, I would try to remind him of the conversations that we would have in a way that would try to get him to remember. That we had these conversations. And then I always asked him questions. He would ask, hey, how about this? I would say, well, what do you think it is? Does that sound like that would be an emissions repair?

26:53Does that sound like that would be a misfire repair? You know, like I would ask, try to ask him questions about what he was asking me to get him to think about what he was asking me. A lot of times, I would say to him, Hunter, what would you do if I wasn't here? Great question. I do the same thing with my front office.

27:12What would you do if I were not here? And sometimes, he'd go, well, I'll just go downstairs. I'd say, no, no, no. What would you do if I wasn't here? Like, would you immediately run downstairs or would you pause and go, okay, I've gotten this far. Let me think about what I've done. And I've had a lot of conversations with BJ and Kelsey on this exact thing, and since, since Hunter.

27:38And one of the things I've learned about myself, which I didn't realize until I was working with Hunter, was I, in, in, in my growing years, I've learned that I don't— and this is gonna be really hard for me to say It's gonna be really hard for people to hear. I don't really like— I don't really like wasting my time with people who don't want to bring something to the table.

28:04And that is a really, you know, so if, if someone would come to me and say, hey, how do I fix this water pump? I would immediately ask, well, what have you done so far? Well, I haven't really done anything. I'm just worried about it and concerned about it. Well, how about you get elbow deep in it first and start to figure out some of the problems that you might run into before you come to me and say, hey, how do I fix this oxygen sensor?

28:31Or, hey, how do I diagnose this EGR valve? You know, we have, we have a computer that has, uh, uh, AllData, and at the time we had, um, that other Identifix. Identifix. The whole internet is out there, right? And I'm like, what have you done to this point? And if you haven't done anything, then what, what do you expect me to do?

28:52You expect me to drop all my tools, walk over, point to it, and say, test this? You know, and they do. Sometimes they do. So what ha— what I learned about myself was if, if, if a technician brings something to me, hey, I tested this circuit, it has 12 volts, it has 6 volts, it, it, you know, now I can say, okay, Did you test the other circuits?

29:15Because this one sounds, you know, like, what did you do to this point? And that's what Hunter would do. He would— I— and if he did, if he would ask me a question and he didn't really bring anything to me, I would be like, I think you know where to go. So go back to the car, get some information, come back if you need to.

29:35Like, you're not required to come back to me, but if you feel you need to, come on back and we'll talk about what you have found. And then he would be you know, 2 bays away and he'd start laughing or he'd be like, ah, dang it. I'd be like, dude, you found it, didn't you? Yeah. I'm like, there, see, you know, you had it.

29:53You just had to, you just had to work through your, your own hurdles, not necessarily the car hurdles. Sometimes it's your own hurdles, you know, like, right. You're, you're, you know, you're, you're working through your own mindset and holding yourself back. Yeah, yeah, you wanna— sometimes guys want the easy way out, and, and I, I have way too many years under my belt to give someone the easy way out.

30:18It's like, sorry, I feel you. Like, what you're saying is a part of leadership that I, um, I, I, I love what you just said. I really do. Because even with my front office staff, you know, I'm not back there mentoring the technicians, but it's like, okay, you can't use my brain to do your work. All right, come to me with some solutions.

30:38You're definitely going to have questions. I want to hear the questions. And then when people say there's no such thing as a stupid question, yes, there is. Yes, there is. Okay, so maybe— I know, I know I do this thing that when you ask me a question, even with a client, a customer, I— and if I think it's a stupid question, I will repeat the question to you to make sure you heard what you said.

31:01And usually people are just like what you just said. Oh, oh, all right, all right, you're right, you're right, you're right. But sometimes it's just easier to lean to somebody else's brain at times. But if you let people do that, if you let a technician do that, a service advisor, even in the parts person, then how do they learn? They don't learn, and then they don't feel the confidence in themselves.

31:24So right now, if a service advisor, front office, frontline people have a question I want them to come to me with some solutions. Like, Miss Tonika, so this is what I'm going through. I think I should do this, or maybe I should do this. All right, shoot, what you got? But like you said, have you invested in your own problem yet? No?

31:44Well, going back, unless you want to give me a little cut of your paycheck this week, then don't do that. And I did that with my kids. It just came to me. So Santana and Jordan will tell you You know, we call it a French fry tax or dad tax or mom tax. Nice. I did not coddle my kids a whole lot.

32:02I know that they're spoiled, it's my problem, but there's a lot of things I was like, I'm not doing that. And one thing was cutting their food. And I know it sounds really silly, I would not cut your waffles or your pancakes or even your steak or your chicken. You, if you're gonna eat it, you're gonna figure out how to take that food apart and get it in bite sizes so you don't die.

32:22Okay, even to this day. And so my kids figured out with steak and chicken that they could use the kitchen shears and cut easier than an actual fork and a knife. So now they know how to use a fork and a knife at 20-something years old, but they will get the kitchen shears and cut their steak because if you want Mommy to cut it, it's going to cost you a tax and I'm going to eat some of it.

32:47And it would tick them off so much. So if you want to use my brain to diagnose your job that you're getting hours on, give me some of that paycheck at the end of the month, at the end of the week, or whatever. And they're like, oh no, no, okay then. If you— nah, nah, I got it, I got it. Then you think about it differently.

33:03But it is very easy for adults and children to just lean on somebody else's brains, and you think, oh well, you know the answer. I do know the answer, and you know how I know the answer? Because I figured it out myself. Now I want you to work on that a little bit, and if I can help you learn, I can do that.

33:17But you just can't depend on everybody else forever. That's part of mentorship, and I'm glad that you, you do that for people. Do you have someone in the shop right now that you're mentoring, Phil? No, actually, no. Um, Hunter, did you work with, uh, you worked with, um, Brian and Landon, right? Yes, sir. Yeah, so currently we have, uh, pared down our, our technicians down to just 4 technicians, and, and The 4 of us all have many, many years of experience.

33:51So, I don't— I mean, I help them all if they want help. But it's not the same as a new person coming in or someone who is, I would say, assigned to a technician. And going back to mentoring, when you get a new technician and the owner or the manager says, hey, I want you to work with Hunter. You're kind of being assigned to someone.

34:21And I wasn't really assigned to Hunter. Um, he— there, there was another person in the shop who was— we'll just say he had a label of a shop supervisor. We'll just say those 2 words. I really don't know what the label was, but— and, and, and the relationship was, was expected that if Hunter had issues concerns, questions, problems, he would go to that person.

34:47But that required him to go down to the other side of the shop, whereas me, I was just 20 feet away. So the relationship between Hunter and I was just like a natural relationship. Like, I wasn't assigned to him. He wasn't expected to come to me. We just kind of started off being friends. And his attachment to me only happened because I was next to him.

35:18Like, you know, and I wonder what would have happened if he was assigned to downstairs as a new technician. If they put him downstairs because coming upstairs would have been an effort for him to come all the way up, ask me a question, go all the way back down, do the work, come all the way back up. So, I kind of wonder what would have happened if he had been assigned to a bay downstairs versus a bay next to me.

35:42What do you think would have happened, Hunter? Um, I think there was just a natural kind of, I guess, we related to each other in ways in terms of our mindset kind of thing. And whenever I went to him with a question, not saying the other guy wouldn't help me and wouldn't provide useful guidance and tried to force me to critically think.

36:09But I think it's just the natural way that Phil would teach me. And I'm not— the way Phil teaches isn't for everyone. The way Tonika— I apologize, how do you pronounce your name again? It's Tonika. You had it right. Tonika. Okay. The way Tonika teaches everyone isn't for everyone. And I think it was just the right mindset for me. And the way he taught me and mentored me was the right way for me to learn at the time.

36:39If you don't mind me asking, what is the age difference approximately between the two of you guys? 30 years, give or take a few weeks. You know what, do you feel at this point in your career— and I'm, I'm don't want to sound ageist because Um, no, Spring Chicken. What lessons— you know, you're not teaching anybody in the shop yet, so you got another kid coming in next week, 20-year-old kid.

37:11What lessons are you really trying to pass on at this point? Are you teaching somebody to repair the car? Are you helping to build a professional? Because it sounds like you're helping to build a whole person. So when I was hired in 2005 I was hired by Kelsey's father, and Kelsey's father had many years of, of being a manager and an owner, and he had, uh, and still does, a, a kind of a, kind of a strict set of rules that we were expected to follow.

37:46And these strict set of rules are just simple basic stuff. Like, it's simple basic stuff like The first thing that comes to mind is you put wheels on and you use a torque stick to torque the wheels. And if you're not going to use a torque stick, put it on the ground and use a torque wrench. You know, it's like, it's— that's a very simple thing.

38:04And he was so strict on that. He could walk through the office door, open the door, look across the shop, and tell if you were using a torque stick because he could see it, right? And then he would come over and he would pretty much chew your butt because you weren't doing it. So, so, and I, you know, it's those kinds of things about like the simple basic, this is the way we expect it to be done type of thing.

38:31So, I get a brand new technician and I've been assigned to work with a lot of technicians at Carey Car Care over the years. And, you know, if I say something like, yo, dude, You got to use a torque stick every time. I have all the torque sticks. You can use them anytime you need them. Use the proper one for the car.

38:54And then the question would be, how do I know? And then I would tell them, you look it up. Every car, you look it up to make sure the torque stick's being used, the proper torque stick's being used. And I kind of don't— I kind of run out of patience when I have to tell somebody 4, 5, 6, 7 times that, um, you got to use torque sticks.

39:17You got to use the right torque stick. Um, so when it— when a technician, if I say something, hey yo dude, yeah, you got to use torque sticks. Oh, okay, yeah, I didn't know that. And then they— and then they start using it that day and they use it from that day on. I'm like, all right, this— this guy, he He follows the rules, and they're not necessarily my rules, they're just shop rules.

39:44And, um, those kinds of things are the things that I see in a new technician. If they're able to understand that the rule is a rule, it's not— it's, it's not something that, that it's only applied to just you as a person. It's applied to everybody in the building. And that they listen to the rule. They follow it and they take it on.

40:10And then, it becomes natural every day and not like, oh well, sometimes I do and sometimes I don't. It's that type of person that I say, okay, I am willing to continue to offer you help and tell you more rules. And Kerry Car Care currently has quite a number of rules, and they're small, but they're things that they want every technician to be in line the same way.

40:39So if a car goes— yeah, a car comes to me, I do it the same way. A car goes to another guy, he does it the same way. So, you know, and that's like what I saw with Hunter. I, I don't even recall telling him about torque sticks. I mean, he may have been using them from day one, and I didn't even need to.

40:55And I'd have been like, oh cool, I don't have to tell him about torque sticks. You know, it's like little things like that that That, or like, um, little things like rotating tires. If you rotate them the right way, then everybody rotates them the right way. And we have a standard for how you rotate tires— front-wheel drive, rear-wheel drive, all-wheel drive. It's in the book.

41:13You just follow the way we're supposed to do it. So when a technician, when a technician accepts the fact that there are standards and the standards might be very different from the last place you were at, but guess what? You're not there. You know, you're not there anymore. So don't tell me like, I, I, oh, we used to do it this way.

41:32Go back, go back. My deal is like, my newest guy's been with me less than 30 days, and his first week he kept telling us what he did at Firestone. And before I could come out of my office, because he's right there in my office, and get to him, I walked out the door and I— it's maybe it's 9:30, and I said, hey, What time is it?

41:53And he's like, yes, new guy. It's like, it's 9:30. And then the tech right next to him, he said, yeah, you've got about to 10 o'clock before she has a fit about you saying what you did at Firestone. Get it out of your system. And he said it just the way I would. It's like, dude, that is not what we do here.

42:12This is how we do it here. And if it was so great at Firestone, you should have stayed there. But this— these are our standard operating procedures, so everybody has the same experience and the customer's cars get the same experience. So yeah, yeah, right, you hit it on the head. But that— you can see that, that, that person, young or old, that new person coming in and saying, okay, I'm invested, I want to be here, how do you guys do it?

42:41Right? Instead of saying, well, we didn't do it that way. Well, you're not there anymore, big dog. That's right. Why are you not there? Right. And I, and I would try to remind these new guys that, okay, you're here at Kerry Car Care and we, we are leaps and bounds better than the place you just left. Yes. And if you don't believe that, 46 years independently owned without a big, big, big retailer name behind us, right?

43:05If you don't believe that, just go back and you'll see how much better it is, you know. So Um, I was sad the day Hunter left because I knew that he was leaving a good place and he wasn't coming back because he was going to Texas. Texas? Yeah, he left to go to Texas. And but you did say— I mean, Hunter, I remember you saying that you actually shopped around a couple shops before.

43:30Like, you've had a couple jobs since you've been in Texas. How hard has it been able to, to find a new home for you? Um, it's been a little bit of a struggle. Um, I moved to Texas because I was ready for change and my wife and I were at the time of our lives like, hey, if we're gonna move, we need to move now.

43:55And she found an incredible opportunity. I found a really good opportunity, but it just wasn't for me at that season of my life. It's kind of the best way to put it. And then it's just been a little bit of a struggle because Carrie Carcare is not perfect. I mean, nobody's perfect at the end of the day. And then reflecting back onto it, some of the silly things that weren't perfect there, really, in hindsight.

44:30I mean, oh, maybe it wasn't that bad. Maybe I should have just stayed in North Carolina. I mean, the silly things that Carrie Carcare did, I mean, the Lambdads are great people. I mean, they gave me bereavement pay after I'd put in my notice to move to Texas. The silly things like that. But it's been a little bit of a struggle. Um, I'm at Genesis of Plano now.

45:02Um, and so I'm at a dealership for the first time in 9 years. Uh, and it's honestly one, one of my mentors always told me that if what you're doing isn't working, do something different. Um, it's a very stupid saying, but it's just always stuck with me. And so I, one, I was just kind of in a rough spot and one day I prayed and then an old manager messaged me and it just, the cards fell into place and I've honestly been liking the dealership.

45:36No, it's not perfect. Nothing is like, nothing is perfect. No matter what these people lie about their shops, nothing's perfect. Yeah. And it's not perfect, but I think it fits me at this current season of my life. Um, and it's kind of exciting working for— focusing on one car line again versus trying to change gears all the time. And it's just kind of refreshing and just, it's not easy, but it's a different type of mindset you have to have kind of thing.

46:14So when— go ahead. So when Hunter went to Texas, I recall that he was very positive about a job that he had landed there. And I was like very proud of the job that he had landed. And then when things were— no, not— I'll just say they weren't working out. And I'll just leave it at that. He and I had many hour-long discussions over the phone about what would be like the best thing to do.

46:46Like, do you— because him and his wife were planning on making a family and buying a house. And I was like, well, you know, if you're going to change jobs, you want to consider, you know, changing now before you have the baby or buy a house. Or, you know, we talked many, many hours. We talked and then he landed another good job and that one was good.

47:08And And then things kind of maybe was not so good. So he called me again and we talked for hours again. And, and, uh, you know, this is a, this is a relationship that I've never had with another technician at work. Like, like nobody, I mean, people that I've, I've worked with for years have never called me on the phone ever. Like, because we work 10 hours a day, like nobody wants to talk to anybody.

47:32But what does that say about you, Phil? That gives, that's a lot to say about how important you are to Hunter. Like, like, you really need to sit there and I want you to chew all of that up. Like, you have not filled a void like he was missing anything, but you have just been pouring into this young man for how many years now?

47:55And for him to trust you with helping him make life decisions regarding his family and future still after you guys don't get to see each other every day, that makes— that lets me know that the relationship you guys built wasn't superficial and it wasn't just about grease and wrenches and cars. So I think it's important, like right now, I'm not going to make this into a Dr.

48:20Phil moment, but this is the time for Hunter to give Phil his flowers. I mean, this is your opportunity, Hunter, for you to tell Phil what he means to you. Things that you— something you've never said. And I, I know, I know, you don't have to do it. He doesn't do it, the whole wide world on the internet is going to see that Hunter had nothing to say.

48:46Feel that pressure. Hunter and I have talked for many hours, uh, on the phone about stuff. And, um, it's all because when he first came to Carrie Car Care He, he showed a level of professionalism and he showed a level of, um, dedication. Even like when he was in college and he was trying to get through his, uh, his, his studies at school and, and trying to work.

49:16And, you know, it would— it like he brought it all to the table in the front. Like he, he like there's nothing he has to, to, to make up for at the back end now. Like he brought it all up at the front. And that was something that I, I noticed. Like, I noticed that he was somebody who was, who was going to do the work but give a crap about doing the work, you know.

49:43And, um, that reflected through everything, through his marriage and his kids and his house and, you know, everything. It's just, it's all there. It's like somebody who gives a crap and in this industry, there's so many people who just, you know, who fight through their job and their day every day, and they, they give a crap, but maybe they don't give a crap, you know?

50:05Like, maybe they're just miserable and, and just, just hoping for something to get better, or hoping for, you know, something. I, I don't know. I don't know. I don't even know what that would be. I don't even know what I'm trying to say because I don't try to hope for anything. I just go to work and I work and I try to do a good job.

50:28And if I see somebody else who does the same thing, then I align myself with that type of person. And if a person is just a cranky— I mean, it doesn't have to be an old bastard. It could just be a cranky young guy. Like, sorry, I'm putting space between you and I because it's just too hard to get through my day if you're the type of person that's dragging me down.

50:50And Hunter wasn't like that. Like, he was always, you know, uh, uh, upbeat. And he, like, he went to the gym all the time in the morning before work. I'm like, dude, you're crazy. He would get up in the morning and go to the gym. I'm like, dude, you're nuts. But, you know, um, you know, so it was just, it's like, so it doesn't surprise me one bit that he has advanced.

51:15And well, I know he'll continue to advance. And I, I know that, you know, I, I see him put stuff on the internet sometimes about the his diagnostic stuff, and he's got lab scopes and computers and all this stuff. And, and I don't see anybody else doing that. Like, I don't see anybody that I've ever worked with do that. Um, everybody just relies on what their environment provides.

51:37And, and so, yeah, yeah, we talked about, um, on another podcast how Some people get stuck in a shop that's not willing to invest in them. They don't invest in the training and, you know, the ASTAs and the tools and things like that. But if you are dedicated to your craft, there's no one or no thing that can keep you from learning.

52:05And so it looks like despite— no matter where Hunter's going to land, he is going to learn. I've seen him talk about you know, Brandon Steckler. I've seen him talk about Paul Danner. So there's so many opportunities for the young techs that don't have a feel. But there's ways to get out there and get involved and learn. And it seems like no matter what you're going to do, Hunter, you're going to be that person that is learning and growing and doing things right and elevating the industry.

52:40And I want to thank you, Phil, for pushing him and teaching him things beyond the wrench and, and the grease and helping him develop into the technician that he is, that he's, he is now, and all the growth that he's going to continue. You know, he's going to continue to grow. But Hunter, you know, unfortunately, you probably have, um, It's going to be your turn to mentor somebody.

53:10Do you— have you found someone at your job or at any shop you've been to since you left Cary that you feel like you have been able to mentor? Yeah, I think there's been— I've always been a person that wants to help others. And so, one of the big things I learned with Phil in terms of me going to him, cherry-picking and answering my questions with questions is I give that same— I retain that same mindset.

53:45So, whenever I go to teach others or somebody comes to me asking a question, I try to do my best to answer their question with a question. And I have found people but nobody I have found incredible people, but nobody just on that next level. I've had a few really good, sharp young technicians that want to learn. Um, just nobody yet that's like on a best friend level kind of thing.

54:19And it doesn't have to be. I would encourage you to continue to do that. So what do you think, like, advice for young technicians? If somebody's listening to you, 18, 20, 22 years old, they want to become a technician, or they're in the industry and they're just stuck in as a lube tech, um, first, how do you think they should look for a mentor?

54:44How do they earn respect? And how do they show that they're serious? I think the best thing you can do is just constantly, uh, I'm a firm believer in asking why. I drill it into young techs all the time. Why, why, why, why, why? Why is this part failing? Why is the customer asking for a charging test? Why, why do we need to torque the wheels every time?

55:15Um, Just constantly being curious and having the mindset of wanting to learn and realizing that if you want to advance, sometimes it has to come at the expense of your free time. Um, and sometimes that isn't fun and pleasant. It isn't fun waking up at 5:00 AM and watching Scanner Dan or Um, before you go to work, right? But sometimes it can be.

55:48Um, and I think just wanting to invest in yourself and asking why, um, is really my biggest 2 things that I believe in. I definitely believe in— we call them, you know, some people call them truth tapes, but I just— it's the tape. What are you deciding to listen to? What are you deciding to spend your time on? You know, you're on the way You talk about how Hunter gets up in the morning and goes to the gym.

56:10That's a decision. The same way that you decide to go to the gym, the same way you decide to go to the club, the same way you decide, you know, to listen to that comedy channel and get a couple laughs in, it's the same way you can turn on a YouTube video and watch Scanner Dinner. So it's, it's your decision, and whatever you decide is what you decide.

56:30But hey, if you want to grow and know more, it's not— it's just not going to come to you. And it just can't happen in 40 hours a week. Nobody's going to invest in you more than do you invest in yourself. So I, I know, like I was saying, I know there's shop owners that don't believe in training or they don't have time for it.

56:47They're not going to spend the money to send you ASTA. That doesn't mean you can't go by yourself. You can take a vacation and go to the beach. You can take a vacation and go to ASTA or go to Tools or go to Vision. So young techs, there are so many opportunities to learn. What Scanner Danner is— well, when I subscribed for the shop, it was only $11 a month.

57:08The book is $60, I believe. I'm not sure, but that's an investment that someone can never take from you. You know, people, we say that, you know, your toolbox has wheels, and if you're in a crap shop, your toolbox does have wheels. But your brain, no matter what you learn, you're going to take that with you. So like I said, it doesn't happen in 40 hours.

57:26You have to do the work. Just like if you want to gain muscles, you got to go to the gym. You need to— I can pray for muscles all I want to. Oh, please bring your muscles, please. Ah, ah, gotta do the work. You gotta do the work. You gotta do the work. And Phil, advice for mentors: why would somebody spend time teaching someone when they're busy?

57:46Why is mentorship worth it? Like, what's the payoff for you? Well, if you go into it with the idea that there's something in it for me, you're going in for the wrong reason. So, thank you. Mentorship can happen with any tech at any shop. But the better that the shop is run, the easier it is to have a mentorship happen. So, I briefly mentioned earlier that, you know, when an older tech is just trying to bang out the maximum amount of hours, if you don't have a shop that recognizes— we'll just say, I mean, every shop is going to want everybody to have the maximum amount of hours.

58:36You want to be efficient. Yeah, but, but it's a balance. But if there's a balance, so if you're able to, if you're able to look at the, the, the production of a person and that person is producing an acceptable amount of hours and you, you take the pressure off of that person and say I need you to work with Hunter for a few hours a week.

59:00That takes the pressure off the technician and gives them permission to be able to provide mentorship to somebody when they're not just trying to bang out hours and keep their job, right? So, when a shop is set up in a way that the owners understand that The only way the technicians are going to learn is if they have to invest in a technician for training.

59:27If you don't see that at the shop, if you can, if you're able to, you know, enlighten them, great. If they're not interested in being enlightened, then maybe that's not the shop that fits that person. So the, so the shop is really the shop management, the shop ownership, the shop philosophy all has to roll into one big ball. And then everything works through that process.

59:54If you're fighting an owner who only wants you to bang out hours, you'll be lucky if, if 2 people, if 2 people who work next to each other even speak throughout the day, right? Like, so it's, it's the, it's this whole thing with the shop, um, that I've worked at many shops in the past where, where it was just bang out the hours and, you know, just no talking, no goofing off, whatever, just work, work, work.

1:00:22And at the end of the day, you were exhausted and you didn't want to be around anybody, and you just wanted to go home and come back and get through your week. And it was, it was not fun. But Carey Car Care is a place where they understand that the only way that they can produce a quality technician is if they invest in that technician with training, with a a normal— I'll say normal— a normal work schedule, um, uh, the ability to have a full hour for lunch to be able to unplug completely and just put your feet up and forget about the problems sitting out there in the bay.

1:00:57Because who knows, you go back out there in 5 minutes, you might find it. But if you, if you're trying to— yeah, if you're just trying to drag your— yeah, if you're trying to drag your ass through it through all, you know, all day, you just, you just get you know, worn down and you can't focus. So, so I think that the mentorship isn't just, isn't just a fluke that happens between 2 people under a roof.

1:01:20I think it's, it, it really is about the philosophy of the operation of the shop and, and how both people are able to work together. Like if Hunter, if Hunter felt the pressure of trying to bang out 50 hours a week, he would have been pretty difficult to try to work with because he would have been like, I just need to— I just need the answer.

1:01:46I just need the answer. I just think I got this done, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he might have been like, screw this place, I'm leaving. Yeah. But instead he was like able to take a breath, think, ask questions, absorb information, apply that to the car, make a repair and be like, hey, it worked, you know? And I think that's all about the philosophy of the shop and how it's run.

1:02:09I understand that shop owners all need to make money. I, it's no, you know, I've been around a long time. It all makes sense. The culture has to be right. You have to have a culture of mentorship and training. And if you have that, that technician that was 80% by default will end up being 100%, 120% because he'll have more knowledge. He'll know what he's doing, less mistakes and more confidence.

1:02:36And like one of the things that happened, it still happens at Keri Car Care. We get these invitations to go to do training at, like, I think a CarQuest maybe has the CTI building in Raleigh. CTI, yeah. So, and other facilities like that. And it's not 100% participation in the shop. And I think that from an ownership standpoint, there needs to be a little bit of a little bit of pressure to say, hey, do you really care about your career?

1:03:08Do you really care about your future? I'm providing you this opportunity to go to training. How come you're not going? And Hunter would go. He would go. That will tell you about a lot of techs. That will tell you about a lot of techs. I had a tech like that for ASTA last year, and I— we're right here in Chapel Hill, so you know where we are.

1:03:28Yeah, I, I, I paid for the guy's We go, we live at ASTA. Everybody gets a hotel room, everybody's getting paid. Yeah, we, we ascend on Raleigh, and I want them to enjoy the whole experience, the fun part, the teaching and everything. So every— we've done this for the last 5 years, I believe. I might be wrong, but I think it's been 5 years we've done it.

1:03:52So my one tech that I was really invested in, and I could slowly tell that I'm more invested than you I try to provide the, the training. I do provide the training, uh, as relaxed of an atmosphere as I can. Customer's not always right. We've got KPIs and we've got benchmarks to meet, but they're not the be-all. So the week before ASTA, it's like, okay, I'm asking him, I'm getting ready to— I've paid for this ticket, are you gonna go?

1:04:22Right here, miles from the house. He says, no, I don't have anybody to watch my dog. And I said, so you come every day to work, and who watches your dog while you're at work? Now, a tech that's invested that also had the dog would have said, yes, but I can't stay because I gotta get home to my dog. See, there's an excuse.

1:04:42And he— I mean, there's nothing that he had to be invested in other than time, right? So I need techs to understand that I want you to be in the right shop. With the right culture, the right training. And there are a lot of shops out there, but you're not— if you're not participating in your own rescue, that is a you problem.

1:05:04Exactly. And that, that eventually will separate you from the great. And that's any job, any industry. If you're a young person, nobody's here to give you anything. But if you're coming in that door and you're hungry and you're worth the investment, I will feed you until you're fat as a tick. And you're going to find a Phil, and you're going to find a Miss Tanika, and you're going to find a Hunter, and they're going to help you grow and prosper in all kind of different areas.

1:05:35But you have to be hungry. And I'm not talking to Phil, and I'm not talking to Hunter. I'm talking to that one tech that really maybe hasn't found his mentor and he's thinking that it's everybody else's fault but his. I'm going to ask you, Young Tech, to look inward. What did you do about it? The same way Phil told Hunter, okay, you just came to me with your situation.

1:05:57What have you done about it? You're telling me you're in a shop and they don't do training. What did you do for yourself? And when you can elevate yourself, you make yourself more attractive to the next shop so you can get in the shop with a great culture, be respected, and continue to learn and grow and pass that torch on to those that are coming behind you.

1:06:23Exactly. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So, um, you know, the automotive industry is, you know, it's not about tools and equipment. It is built by people. I remember being in my 20 group meeting one time, and our coach said, this is a people business. Yes, we fix cars, we fix cars for a living, but we're taking care of people. We're taking care of each other while we're under the same roof for 8 to 10 hours a day.

1:06:50And we're taking care of all the citizens that have to go back and forth to work, daycare, all of those things. So this, this is a real people business. It's more than just turning wrenches. It's more than KPIs. It's more than profit margins. Um, so it is an industry full of humble technicians, some of arrogant, but I think more people are kind of getting that, you know, how do you say it without sounding— people are going to have to learn how to respect blue-collar trades.

1:07:24But in order for us to earn the respect, we have to show them who we are as an industry. And so Phil and Hunter, the hour that I've spent with you, I really feel like you guys are doing it right. And I know there's a lot more people out here doing it right or wanting to do it right. And again, we were just talking before we started recording, Phil, that is some of the stuff that I want to highlight when I'm talking to people on the downshift.

1:07:51So, so if every shop had one Phil and one Hunter and we just kept making Phils and Hunters— only if— only Phil and Hunter. Why? Your name Phil, you can get a job. Name Hunter, get a job. Nope, you can't get a job. That's right. So I just feel like this episode may have, um, talked to a more seasoned tech that doesn't know that he has a job.

1:08:16Like, you have a job. I have a job to mentor and love on the next generation if they're willing to accept it. Hunter, now that's your job. You've got that torch. Um, and so I hope a whole lot more people pick up the torch and we stop complaining about the industry and saying, hey, what can I do to change it for the better.

1:08:38Let's stop talking about all of the problems or the situations. Say, hey, maybe I'm a part of the problem. Maybe if that young man came and asked me a question, I wouldn't grunt at him, I'd, I'd mentor him. Yeah. Or maybe if that old man is grunting at me, I actually listen and understand why he's— boy, didn't you— because you asked him that same question 3 times.

1:09:03So anyway, anything? What, Phil? I feel like you got something else to say. I, I'm really digging your vibe, dude. I can't wait to come to Cary and meet you. I'm gonna come over there and take Kelsey to lunch. Yeah, I'm there. Just come on upstairs. Upstairs today? Yeah, upstairs. East side. The Phil side. The Phil side. Yeah. Uh, no, I, I'm, I'm all talked out, I think.

1:09:28You're all talked out. How often do you guys talk to each other now? Probably every few months, something along the lines. But we usually text every few weeks, usually. He'll send me something silly and I'll be like, all right, dude, call me. But yeah, it's good. It's good. I really enjoyed you guys taking time out of your Saturday to talk to me.

1:09:56Downshift with Tamika is where we slow down long enough to have real conversations hosted by myself, second-generation shop owner, Tanika Haynes. This goes beyond your car count, your KPIs. We wanna talk about leadership, legacy, mindset, and the messy, beautiful journey of building something that lasts. You will hear stories from shop owners, technicians, and other industry leaders who are figuring it all out by themselves in real time.

1:10:25This is a space for growth, tough love, laughter, and leveling up.