Profit Panel pt.2 : Unlocking Massive Net with P&L Secrets - Bonus Zoom Episode 8
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About this episode
Glenn Piccolo hosts Profit Panel part 2 with Charlie Zlatkos, J.J. Mont and Lynn Massengill to unpack how shops drive real profitability through P&L literacy,…
Key takeaways
- —Understanding and improving gross profit margins is crucial for shop profitability.
- —Open book financials help technicians understand the business's financial health and reduce pushback on pricing.
- —Adjusting labor rates can be an effective strategy to close deals without sacrificing technician time.
- —Hiring A players and providing a clear path for growth is essential for retaining top talent.
- —Every dollar added to the bottom line can significantly increase the business's overall value.
Frequently asked
- How can I improve my shop's gross profit margin?
- Focus on refining parts pricing and labor rates, and ensure your team understands the importance of gross profit in driving sales.
- What is the significance of open book financials?
- Open book financials allow your team to see the shop's financial performance, which can lead to better decision-making and reduced pricing pushback.
- How can I retain top talent in my shop?
- Create a positive work environment, offer growth opportunities, and ensure your team has a financial stake in the business's success.
▸Full transcript
Good morning, Glenn Piccolo here with Adams Automotive bringing you another episode of MasterTech to Millionaire presented by AutoShop Answers. Man, today we've got another great podcast coming to you. We've got the Profit Panel Episode 2, same group on the line this morning. We got Charlie Zlatko, we've got Lynn Massengill, we've got JJ Montt. Man, this is gonna be great. We didn't have enough time to cover it all last week, so we're gonna get back into it today.
So Thank you guys so much for listening. Let's dive in. Man, we're running it back this morning. Profit Panel episode 2. Last week, we just couldn't get it all in. We had so much, you know, just, you know, great information that we were able to get out, but I just felt like it, you know, really fell short because just there's so much more to unpack.
We talked about Lynn and Auto Hospitality. We talked about Charlie and his Rust— you know, the shops with rust, because we hear that all the time, that you can't do this in my market. We talked about JJ and his record-breaking net profit month, which was absolutely fire, $234,000 in net. We talked about net profits higher than, you know, what gross sales were a couple years ago.
And then we talked about the threshold of pain, the customer's threshold of pain when it comes to labor rate and I think that's super important, you know, because you really have to find that customer threshold of pain or you're really leaving money, you know, you're really leaving money out there on the table that you need to be able to continue to grow your business, to take care of your people that ultimately take care of the customer.
But it's important that the team understands, you know, the profitability because remember, they think you make 6 times more than you actually do. Make. And so if you don't share that with them, they don't understand exactly what the business is doing. I'll give you a good example. This week I was at a shop and we were doing some training and a technician walked up to me and it wasn't my shop, it was our Woodlands location.
And a technician came up to me and he said, hey, look, he goes, hey, at your shop, do you ever, like if you have to make a deal with a customer, Do you ever like lower the price on parts or do you just lower the labor? And I said, well, it really just depends. You know, we'll make adjustments typically in both ways and we'll talk to a technician and say, hey man, is there something you can do to help me out on this?
You know, like, you know, I know you can get this job done, you know, obviously faster than book time. Is there anything you can do to help me out? Because we're just trying to save the deal. Like at the end of the day, I've got to save the deal. He's like, you know, you can just adjust your labor rate. You're like, you don't have to actually take any time away.
You can just, you know, you know, you can just go and adjust the labor rate and that will adjust the price. And so, you know, I was listening to him and I was like, well, he doesn't understand. At the end of the day, it's just you're taking the profit away from somewhere. Okay. And so we don't want to take time away from our technicians, obviously.
But we sell, you know, we sell these jobs and there's times where we have to maybe match a competitor or something along those lines and we have to make an adjustment and we'll talk to our technicians. It's kind of like shopping. Shop in parts, sometimes you have to kind of shop that labor. So if they understand that and they understand like open book financials and they understand about your business, I think you're going to have a lot less pushback when they understand that, right?
And what really goes into running a business. So this morning I wanted to— so of course on the line, Charlie Zlatko's JJ Montt, Lynn Massengill, superstars, and just get to pick the brains of these, you know, just incredible owner operators. And so this morning I wanted to start with Lynn. We talked a little bit about, you know, auto hospitality and how that's changed his business, which it does, saying yes and obviously taking great care of the customer.
But on the profitability side, you know, I'd really like to know like, You know, what did you do like from a profitability side besides on the revenue side, like to really grow that profitability? Yeah, to really grow that profitability, when I first began coming to Auto Shop Answers and took the first accounting class, that's when I knew that, hey, we have this huge opportunity here.
My gross profit was out of whack. So Todd said, hey, we've gotta get this to 62, 62.5%. And so that was the first goal of mine, was get my gross profit in line, get the team on board, let's make adjustments where we need to, get our parts pricing right, get our labor set right, sell the right jobs, and push that GP higher.
So that was the very first thing that we worked on. We were down around the 51, 52% when I started, and now just as we refined and improved, we're running 64%, 65% GP. And so that was the thing that grew my profit the fastest at Premier for sure. Yeah, it's super important that you run a high gross profit and there's a lot of shops out there that do run that 50%.
And remember, it's okay for us to be profitable and make money. That's how we're going to continue to exist to be able to serve the customer. We have to have a good, healthy business to be able to be there to even honor of that warranty. How many, um, how many shops out there, um, you know, have a great warranty and then they're not in business in a year from now or 2 years from now?
It happens all the time. And so you got to be able to run good gross margin to end up putting net to the bottom line. And, you know, the thing about it is there's just certain jobs that you can get really good gross profit on, and there's certain jobs that, that just aren't, right? Like Our Woodland store runs, you know, 62, 63% gross profit and they're a tire store, right?
They sell tires. People are like, oh my gosh, how could you run such high margin on, you know, on the tire store? Well, you remember you have to be able to take the good with the bad and you have to be able to have those super high GP jobs so that you can afford to do the lower GP job, which you have to do.
There's just certain parts that you can't mark up, right? Like, there's just certain parts you just can't— you can't sell a transmission that you buy from the dealership, you know, at 3 times what you bought it for, like you would maybe a set of spark plugs or something like that. And so you have to be able to take the good with the bad.
So you're gonna have those low margin items. A lot of people look at it and they say, wow, look, I'm making this much money on the job. That's where the open book financials comes in. Oh, I'm making this much money on the job. But like Charlie said last week, start calculating all the percentages that are going to come out of there, start calculating the uniforms, the rent, the taxes, the 401, the insurance, the coffee, the paper, and then all of a sudden it's like, oh wow, I didn't make, I didn't make nearly as much as I thought I would.
So advisors knowing that's super important as well because they see the gross profit, but they may not understand what that's going to result in net once you strip away all of your general and administrative fees that are tied into every single job. So great point on that. So you go from a 50 to a 62, 63, 64, whatever that is. And well, one, that drives your sales.
Number two, because obviously higher GP is going to be, you know, higher sales. And then all of a sudden you're putting, you know, like big, big net to the bottom line. So that's huge. Tarlie, You know, I remember several years ago when you kind of took over P&Ls, right? And what, so what was that like before, right? Before you kind of got involved in P&Ls, like what was your thoughts on the P&L?
And I think you had a little bit of fear that, not fear, but just like maybe a little intimidated by the numbers or? Not even that. What it was, I had no idea what a P&L was. I really just ran my business from my checkbook. So if there was money in the bank, I guess things were good. And if there was no money in the bank, I guess things were bad.
But this is not how business works. And I have a feeling I'm probably speaking to a lot of people right now who've all been there. Because I think starting out, unless you know, unless somebody taught you about P&Ls and accounting, then you have no idea what to look for. So, you know, in the P&L, and I think we spoke about it a few months ago in one of the episodes here that you have a great month getting a lot of money in.
Now what happens is, you know, as soon as the statements start coming in, a lot of that money is going to go to pay the bills, right? So you cannot manage your life or your business from your checkbook because you might say, oh, I have an X amount of dollars in the checkbook, honey, sure, let's go on vacation. 'Oh, let's go do this,' but that's not your money.
That money is about to go out. So you need to run and learn the P&L. And, uh, when I first also, you know, I had an accountant earlier on that wasn't good, and we're gonna leave it at that. We're not gonna go into details. Thankfully now we use Nick, and that's actually the story how we end up with Nick. Um, Todd was asking for a P&L, and he was never giving me P&Ls, this accountant.
The business was still kind of small then and still wasn't getting P&Ls. And then kept asking and finally we get one from 6 months ago and really he hands it to Todd and Todd looks at it and threw it away. He's like, what is this? I could have done better if I did it with crayons. So there was an accounting issue there.
Then that's again the story how we ended up with Nick. We wanted a professional that can take over the business. But you need to learn at least the basics of how a P&L works. You need to teach your people how gross profit works. There's so many triggers you can pull. Now on the G&A side, there's only so many things you can pull, right?
And some businesses, you can run a very lean business. If you don't want to have loaner cars, if you don't want to have coffee in your waiting area, If you don't want to have air conditioning in your office, you can run a pretty lean P&L and you'll be able to make more money percentage-wise with less sales. But if you do want to provide all hospitality, it does cost more money.
It is more expensive, but you are going to get better quality customers. You're going to get more loyal customers. You're going to be able to recruit better people. And you can still charge more money to be able to have a strong P&L and very profitable. So that's where we're at versus running it very lean. So the way I landed, very quick story before I pass on the ball, the way I learned P&L, I was sitting with Todd and we finally got professionally done P&Ls going over it and there was distractions in the shop.
So he says, let's go, we're gonna leave here. Went to my house, we went in the basement, have a table there, we sit down, and that's where he taught me. He took my hand, line by line, he taught me how P&Ls work. And it's very simple. I mean, once you understand it, it really is very simple. On the top line you have your parts and labor, then you get your gross profit, and then below is all your expenses.
You deduct all your expenses and what's left is your profit. So it is a very simple process, but you do have to understand it and then you have to understand what can you squeeze, you know, is your credit card fees right, your insurance bills right. There's a lot of negotiating stuff that goes through. Also, when you review your P&L, it almost— I look at it a little different now.
It tells me the story of how well we did last month. It's almost like going back and watching the Super Bowl on replay, right? And really every line item tells a story, what happened here. So if we have, let's say, a customer satisfaction, $1,000 back, what happened there? That's a bad play. We dropped the ball somewhere. Let's figure out what happened. Let's fix that.
So P&L isn't just about numbers. It will teach you operations too. So I look at P&Ls a little bit different than probably a lot of people right now. Yeah. And one thing you said there is you are reviewing your P&L so you see how you did last month. And I've talked to a lot of shop owners when I talk about P&Ls, they don't have one, okay?
And they're 4, 5, 6 months behind on P&Ls. I've talked to, you know, people that I've recruited that get paid off of a P&L, and they said they're still waiting on a bonus 'cause the P&L's not done, and it's been several months since the store closed out the month. And so you've gotta get it fast because if you don't get it fast, well, I mean, you don't know what it is, right?
And so, you know, our goal is to have that, you know, on or before the 15th. And the goal is to actually have it even faster. Like, you know, now with what Mack Keys is implementing, you know, the goal is to have it even faster. But you have to have a dialed-in team to be able to manage your money. And so it's just like an advisor or a GM or a technician.
It's like you have to go find A players. And do they cost you more? Yes, they cost more. It is going to cost you more to have Nick on your team than whoever your previous, you know, accountant was or bookkeeper was. But the difference in what, number one, they can, you know, help you to generate by way of awareness, by having a P&L done fast, by having accurate numbers.
And then like we talked about before, right, there's, there's bookkeepers out there that are stealing. They're stealing from people. Okay. And so if you're not knowing If you don't know your numbers, it's very easy for a bookkeeper to manipulate those numbers because that's their world. And so they could literally manipulate numbers on a P&L and give you a P&L that's not accurate.
And meanwhile, they're taking money off the top. And you might be thinking, man, we're profitable. Hey, we're doing great. We're making money. But how much money are you actually making versus what's getting turned off the top? And Todd's caught that. Many, many times in this business by teaching people how to understand and know their numbers. So there's so many things, Glenn, on the P&L.
Again, oh man, the more you talk about it, we can talk about this all day. Again, so if you work in the shop, you can say, let's say the P&L is not ready on time, right? And you can start blaming the bookkeeping department very easy, isn't it? If the operations is dialed in, If all your parts are accounted for, if all the repairs are done, uh, if everything is reported properly, the technician then in his hours, like all these items happen properly in the shop, then the accounting team can move faster.
If the operations in the shop is not dialed in, guess what? That slows down bookkeeping. They have a lot of questions. They're not in the shop, right? So they have a lot of questions that need to be answered. So it's very easy for people to blame other people, but I feel like everything we do is about teamwork. Like really everything we do is about teamwork.
If everybody plays ball and they do their part, then things run smoother. Like you said, right now we have Matt Keys, he's implementing some great systems now and AI is really helping out. We're going to be able to close our P&Ls before the 10th now, I mean between the 5th and the 10th of the month, which is absolutely insane. Phenomenal, but it takes a lot of work and a lot of discipline to have the team so tight.
You know what, Charlie, if I can, I don't know if Glenn is still— let me just tag into that. Glenn, if I can just add something to that, which is critical, man. I don't think people realize how important the accounting and the fraud prevention class is because it's so funny. My story is very similar to Charlie's. Like when I kind of, when I met with Key2Key and met with Todd and all of that, you know, I was doing my own books, you know, all my stuff was just, you know, just kind of wacky and really all over the place.
And I didn't really know exactly how much money I was actually making. You know, I really had no clue. So I was just pretty much just functioning and just grinding, right? But when I took that accounting class in Toronto, you remember it was like a tornado or something in Houston. Oh, I remember that. No AC. You remember that? Yeah. But that goes to show you, like, even the commitment that Todd and everybody Auto Shop has, man, is like, it doesn't matter if a hurricane or tornado's coming in, man, we're still going to get this information out, man.
So it was so critical. So I learned a model of what it should actually look like. And Charlie, you just mentioned about how a lot of times if you're not conscious or what have you, you can actually start blaming other people for your issues. And that's one thing as operators we definitely got to stay away from and take accountability for the condition and the state of our operation.
So that's the thing that I really got at the Accounting First, you know, program, that session, oh my God, it opened my eyes to what the actual model should look like. Okay, so I'm talking all the way down to what chart of what accounts we should have in the chart of accounts. Okay, just, just simple stuff. Okay, simple stuff. How, when you talk about, Charlie, how to, how to, you know, how we get to that 62, and Lynn, how we talk about how to get to that 62.5%.
Okay, I never even knew that. Okay, so I was down, I think at that time, same thing with you, Lynn, like 50%, maybe 49%, and didn't even know, um, what, how that, you know, affected my business, what that actually meant, you know, how did we even get there and how do we even change that, you know. So the Accounting First program, man, it opened my eyes to the actual model.
Okay, so now for me, I'm not the most creative guy in the world by any stretch of the imagination, but if I can see what it's supposed to look like, If I can see what it's supposed to be, then I have a model that I can start to try to duplicate and replicate, you know, and then you start dialing it in. And for me, it was a process, Glenn.
It took a while for me to kind of get my stuff cleaned up, but I had homework now, and now I accepted responsibility for making my books be good, you know, making them correct, making them be auditable. And I leave with this is like Todd said something that was so critical, life-changing to me, changed my whole perspective. He said that every dollar that you can put to the bottom line is worth $20.
I was like, okay, I was like, okay, that's, that's cool, man. I said, all right. Uh, but it didn't really, it didn't really set in until, like, even though I mentally understood what he was saying, but that thing got into my soul. And that meant that, like, Man, my book's got to be super duper tight and kind of like what Charlie said, which is critical.
It kind of evolves from you just getting a sheet of paper together with your numbers on it to actually how to operate your business. You know what I'm saying? It shows you what's what and this and all that. And then how, you know, it's like a scorecard of what you're doing and you need to get hammers in there. You need to get people that can sell.
You need people in there that can make sure they deliver that world-class best, you know, experience to customers so you can get to that 62.5%. That's how you do it. So having a model and being able to kind of ascribe to that, oh my God, it's life-changing, man. Oh yeah, I agree, JJ. Accounting First is so far. The very first one I did, I was the only person that showed up to that class, so I was one-on-one with Todd.
And so we hit the basics, and then he said, can I teach you Todd math now? And so that was that. You can sell every dollar of your net for a multiple at some point. And that was a defining moment. And that is so important. And like, this is generational for sure. And I have never been to Accounting First Class, but I mean, you always see light bulbs going off.
Like everyone walks out of there changed in some way or another or with a better idea or, oh my gosh, I've been doing this wrong for 10 years, 15 years, 20 years. And just to go back and start making making those changes and then counting your money or someone else's. And then guess what? Once you're measuring everything, accounting for every dollar, looking at everything, that net just continues to grow.
Yeah, it's amazing. He, you know, he taught us that a long time ago. I think, you know, he'll tell you his father-in-law taught him that a long time ago. Every dollar that you make, if, you know, if you take it and spend it, you know, or if you take it, you know, what it costs you versus what it, what it is, if it is back in the business as profit, and how much you can sell it for.
And, you know, we've talked to plenty of, you know, business owners that are trying to, you know, take— I'll give you a good example— cash. You know, we've heard that, and that's something— that's a red flag. You got to watch out closely for that. You know, owners that are just trying to take cash so they can take the cash and avoid paying taxes on the cash, but don't realize that that money, that if it goes into the business and it's a profit in their business that it is worth so much more than what they're actually saving on taxes.
They don't understand that. They'll take the cash out of their business. And one, that's just obviously super bad optics for your team. And we've seen that out there where owners are coming, taking cash out of the business, taking cash out, taking the deposits and things like that, like taking them themselves. And that's just bad business, right? It's got to be super clean.
He teaches us about audited financials, right? I mean, if you're going to sell your business one day, man, you need to be able to have audited financials, which means that your books have to be clean. They have to be very dialed, right? Because, one, what is that going to make you on a multiple having audited financials versus not having audited financials? Well, that will factor in 100% into your multiple, right?
Somebody, if they're going to come buy you one day, well, if you have the infrastructure there, right, that factors into your, to your multiple. If you have audited financials, that will factor into your multiple. So saving somebody, saving money on a bookkeeper, okay. I mean, let's say you save $50,000 annually on a bookkeeper for maybe a superstar versus just an average, you know, accountant or bookkeeper.
What is that $50,000 a year difference costing you on a multiple? If that time comes and you're going to sell your business, it's insane money that people leave on the table by trying to save and get somebody at a deal. And it's at every single level. It's accounting, it's sales, it's technicians. It's the same thing across the board. A players in all departments is a It's a non-negotiable and you know the difference.
You know, you absolutely will know the difference. So yeah, dude, that's crazy. Yeah. Can I jump in there? Yes. I have a couple notes on both aspects here. So first of all, the cash, right? What you said, I don't want people to miss it. If you're an owner and you're taking cash out of the drawer, Or if a customer comes in and says, oh, I'm going to give you cash if you do it for X amount of dollars versus the price you gave me.
That is like such bad optics. First of all, it's bad optics for your employees because you're now setting an example of what they can do. So what are they doing behind your back when you're not there? Could somebody come in and cash out a car? Let's say I'm working the counter, Glenn, and I work for you today. And, and I'm cashing out a customer and it was a $1,200 ticket, right?
And you are off. Now, that guy can pay me cash and maybe he paid me fully and I can put $1,000 in the register and I can say, you know what, Glenn, this guy was really complaining about the price on the counter, so, uh, you know, I had to give him a deal and it's now $1,000. You're not going to question, you're going to be like, okay, I understand.
And now I stole from the business. So you see, it starts with the top by setting an example. So you cannot do that. And then once you understand the multiples and the value, trying to make those cash deals, it's actually costing you so much more money. You're thinking, "Oh, I'm going to get cash." Some people, I have seen it, I've been around the business for a long time.
Some people will say, "Oh, I'm going to do this. I'm going to hide the cash. I'm not going to report it to the government. I don't need to pay tax." Well, you don't need to pay tax, but your multiple is so many times more than what the tax is. So you're actually stealing from your family now. You're stealing from your kids and your generational wealth that you're trying to build.
So understanding the multiple method, Todd method we're talking about, is so fundamental and crucial to understand it because every action you do will be different. Yeah, and you're teaching, like you said, you're teaching your team. And so part of getting these superstars on your team is like they have to be able to see growth. They have to be able to, like, if you get the top A players, okay, the top A players in the business are not people that are just going to come in and be superstars for you in that position forever and ever and ever.
Okay. They want to see growth. These are people that want to either run a shop, own a shop, just really accelerate their career. And so you have to be able to show them a path to be able to do that, okay? It's like if you have somebody on your team and they have these dreams and goals to just win and have generational wealth and you don't provide an environment for them to do that, well, guess what?
You're not going to be able to hold on to those people. They're going to go off and they're going to go find that opportunity somewhere else or go do something on their own. Now, if you are teaching them business and teaching them entrepreneurship and teaching them how to run a business, okay, and you are teaching them the right way to do it, and they see that you do it with integrity, and they see that you can win doing it with integrity, and they see that there is a path, well then all of a sudden you don't have a, uh, you don't have an employee that's just running a shift anymore.
Todd talks about that all the time. Like, if you leave our company, you're just going to run a shift out there somewhere, right? You're going to run a shift. And so here it's not running a shift. It's— you're learning business every single day. You're learning entrepreneurship. You are learning the things that you're going to need, whether it be with this company or if you ever do go out on your own.
You are learning the things that you need to know to be able to be successful doing it. And just— there are— there's just nobody's teaching that out there, right? I mean, I haven't heard— not in our space. I mean, I just don't know any, you know, you know, automotive platforms that are teaching people business at the level that we teach business. Most of them are managing from the top down, managing from spreadsheets rather than being in the trenches with your team.
So I wanna talk about being in the trenches, like in the trenches with your team. How, JJ, how does being in the trenches with your team help to manage your profitability? Oh, big time, Glenn. And it is actually like one of the most important things because like when you're in the trenches, okay, and not necessarily, you know, kind of away from the business, you're actually in there, you feel the pulse and you know the rhythm of what's what, you know.
And particularly if you're connected to and you understand like your numbers, like you know that the energy in the place, the rhythm of the store is directly tied to what you're going to see at the end of the month on the P&L. But it has such a great impact because it kind of reverberates throughout the whole business. So if I'm on the floor racking cars, PMIing cars, gloving up, test driving cars, bringing cars in, opening hood, checking lights, and we're doing all that, then everybody else follows suit.
You don't any problem with anybody doing anything because they see the main person racking cars, pressure testing, pulling calipers back, doing videos. So nobody has any excuse. And it just contributes to the overall culture, which literally impacts the bottom line. We were talking earlier, you were saying something earlier about technicians or something accepting or something kind of, uh, talking about the price or something like that on a job or something like that, man, we have, like, anybody who runs this concept, like, has the nicest technicians in the world.
And they could have been rough techs at their last place, but when they come into, you know, a shop that's running key-to-key for real, for real, oh my God, like, they want to help out. They don't care. So if you got to work a deal, whatever, and you say, hey, look, do me a favor, man, can you take a, uh, a 2 on— can you do a 2 hours on this one?
And it calls for like a 2:7 or something like that. They have no problem because it's unlimited hours. You see what I'm saying? So they're able to work with you on anything. However, you know, you pay them, you take care of them, and they just love it. Okay, so how could you kind of like deny that somebody, the operator being down in the trenches, like say for example, Charlie, okay?
Go up to Charlie's place, Charlie's in there doing all this and all that. I'm like, okay, okay, okay, this guy's a maniac. I love it. Let me, I gotta model that, you know what I'm saying? I love it. So, but Charlie's super duper profitable. Charlie has great, great business. He's functioning. Everybody in his shop is like just fantastic, super duper helpful. So Glenn, to answer your question, how does it actually help the bottom line.
It's everything. Now, some people say, how do you do that if you got 4 stores, 10 stores, or whatever? It's the same thing. You hire amazing people, right? And you just have people that have your same spirit, the same spirit that you have, and they're the ambassador of the key-to-key concept in that shop, and it's just going to happen. And it's so important to really understand it like that.
You will have— it does have a major impact. So if you're down there, you're looking at every every car. You're not letting stuff slide. You're not, man, we're doing PMI challenges. You understand that every single car matters. Every single car, every single customer matters. Speed of service. You see, when people are incentivized and people understand that everything matters, they're in tune to what's going on.
If there's a cap to what they're making, if there's a cap to, um, to, to their salary or just, just a ceiling. A lot of people just are not motivated, you know. A lot of people are just not motivated. You have to incentivize people, man, to, to make sure they perform. It's just like in the NFL. There's really no cap. They got bonuses for this, that.
If you get 10, 10 catches, you're gonna have this. If you have this many yards, you're gonna have this. If we make the playoffs, you're gonna get this bonus, et cetera, et cetera. And then like high-level people love that stuff. A lot of times people don't really Like the high-level performers, they don't want just safety or a fallback plan. No, man, they're trying to push the envelope.
And that's what being in the trenches with your wrenches is, man. It's an energy, it's a mindset, and the P&L at the end of the month, it just happens. It happens because you're driving it. Man, Tenzey, you hit so many points. And Glenn, this thing goes far beyond just the P&L and the money, man. Being able to hire, recruit, and, uh, what you call it, retain great people, it's amazing.
So first of all, like I said, we cannot emphasize it enough. I have said this over and over. A lot of people come to Keith O'Keefe, and then the accounting class, there's barely a handful of people, which is absolutely insane because All you work all month, you work all year, and all the money is sitting in that accounting class and the fraud prevention.
And there's a couple of things there. You have to hire great people. You have to keep them honest. You have to keep honest people honest, right? But you also have to be an honest person. Can I say a very quick story? Because this, I bet you this happens out there, you know, hopefully not to a big concern, but it does happen. You have to be a flawless business that nobody has anything to point back at you.
So about a year ago, I think myself, Todd, and Bill, we went to Arizona. We were invited from Grant Cardone and Brandon Dawson. They had a conference going on. It was about 700 people in the room. And Grant is a big personality. He's like a Todd, right? He walks around the crowd, he works the crowd. And they're talking about firing people. He's like, does anybody have somebody they need to fire today?
And I think it was a Sunday. A bunch of people raised their hand. He walks up to this guy who was very close to him. He's like, man, call him and fire him now. The guy's like, I can't do it. I can't do it. And he's like, man, you call him and tell him I fired him. He says, he's going to at least have a story to tell.
He's going to say, I was fired from Greg Cardone. And the crowd is laughing. The crowd is laughing, right? So, but after a while, after Grant keeps pushing this guy, the guy wouldn't do it. So Grant turns to him and he says, "What does he have on you? What does that employee have on you that you are so afraid to fire him because you're going to get exposed next?"
So make sure your business is so clean, pristine. And that's why I keep saying the examples you said, are crucial because you don't want anybody to have anything on you. You don't want your customers, you don't want your employees, you don't want anybody. And you sleep better at night, I promise you that. And you're able to attract better talent because good talent is looking for a good place to go work.
Yes, absolutely. Find the right people, make it a great place to work, give them a financial stake in the outcome of the business, and train them. They have to have a financial stake in the deal. Otherwise, it will be just a job. It'll be a shift. They'll be coming and working a shift, and then you know how it is in our industry, right?
People can't hang on to people. They just go shop to shop to shop. We see it all the time. They're chasing— A lot of people out there, they're chasing the next $10,000 a year or $20,000 a year or whatever that is, or a technician chasing that next $5 an hour or a sign-on bonus. And it's like, in the grand scheme of things, that is such a small ball.
Right? It's like when you look at the big picture, okay, it is so small chasing that short-term, you know, dollar or annual salary or whatever it is. It's so short-term. And when you can understand that, look, I've got to build my personal stock value, right? My goal is I've got to be the absolute best I can be. I've got to be a gotta-have in this industry.
I've got to be a gotta-have in this business. And then all of a sudden you're not chasing $10,000, $20,000. People are chasing you just to be in the room. And so like, what do you want to do? Do you want to be an employee or do you want to be a leader in the industry? Because everybody has that opportunity, like, to go and be a leader in this industry, right?
And you guys are just a perfect example of that. It's like, you know, like, what would somebody pay for JJ to come work in their store for a week? You know, it's like that, you know, like, Charlie, gosh, dude, you know what somebody would pay Charlie to come and work in their store? You know what I've been offered to go work a weekend in somebody's store to go work for the weekend and run our concept, okay?
You know, now I can't do that 'cause we have a business to run, right? But it just shows you the value, right? Of like, okay, this is what we're doing. This is what we have to offer. This is what our concept will do. And then all of a sudden it's like, That's what you— that's where you want to be. Not chasing a little bit of money here, a little bit of money there.
You want to just go all in with this concept and you want to learn what we're teaching. It's the right way. It is a perfected business model. There is no doubt about it. And it will absolutely change, change your life. So anyway, any final thoughts, team, before we wrap this up? We're about to head into Take Five this morning, like every morning.
Anything to add? Anything to throw in there? Final thoughts? You have to learn your numbers, find the right mentor and the right system, which we already have, so you don't need to look any further. And just do right. Like everything you do, just do right. That's my message. Just do right. Doing the right thing is always the right thing. Go ahead, JJ.
No, I was going to say that's exactly right. Like being profitable is not luck. It's not by chance. It's a deliberate, intentional effort that goes into many things to make you, to make your business profitable. When you're profitable, oh my gosh, everything is different. It's weird. It's like when you're profitable, it just seems like you smile a little bit more. You know, you're laughing, you're having fun.
Everything changes. Everything changes. You know, and just to go back for one second, like, you know how when you're talking about taking the cash or shop owners taking cash and all that, man, I just want to reiterate it again. Let's say, for example, and Charlie may mention about, you know, $1,000 cash, the owner pocketing that. $1,000 cash, if you take it out because you're trying to avoid the taxes, costs you $20,000.
Just think, every time I think of a number to the bottom line, I think times 20. So $20 is actually $400. It's a lot. Yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy. So like, it's, uh, you just got to be disciplined and you have to get around people like Charlie, like Glenn, like Todd, like Lynn, you know, uh, Mike Quinn, you know, Bill Broussard, who helped me, uh, become way more profitable by pointing out a lot of stuff operationally as well as on my, uh, P&L statements.
Oh my God, I mean, forever indebted to these guys, man. Like, to just show you show you the way. Don't be embarrassed. You know, any owner out there, I tell you, when we were down there, Glenn, I was literally trying to hide my financials. Like when I went to the accounting firm, they were like, all right, pull your financials out. And I was like, oh God, you know, I was trying to slide them under my laptop and all that, you know.
But if you're not embarrassed or ashamed and you take accountability, okay, this is where I am today, this is where I am, but I'm the dude, I'm the guy, And I'm going to take accountability and responsibility. I'm going to start making the changes I need operationally so this sheet of paper will change. And my God, it will change. But Zay Zay, you went from being embarrassed to being number one.
Say what? Here we go, baby. What'd you say? I said you went from being embarrassed to now you're being proud to share. Oh yeah, it's amazing, man. It's amazing. It's amazing. Thank you. And Glenn, and Glenn, and Glenn Trout, I can't thank you guys enough. You guys have led the way, man. You guys are the ones that's teaching hardcore, man, and we just soaking it up over here.
So thank you guys, man. Millions. Let's go. Well, hey guys, that's our time today. So thank you all. This was a blast as always. And let's get ready to rock this day. Everybody have an awesome, awesome day. Boom. Let's go. Boom. Let's go. For more information, reach out to Todd Westerland at 925-980-8012 or visit autoshopanswers.com. Get more information about key-to-key callbacks, courtside VIP Rack Attack Day where you spend a full day in the trenches with our teams.
We have leadership classes, an AI academy, accounting first, fraud and prevention, as well as auto tech training. We are literally your one-stop shop. Please don't hesitate, reach out to Todd Westerland, 925-980-8012.
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Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode. 👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://youtu.be/7M70n_DfTDg Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this! Links & Resources: Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com. Episode Transcript: Ask Me Anything Car Count vs. Profit - Why More Cars Doesn't Always Mean More Profit Lucas Underwood: What is up, everybody? Hey, y'all. It's Lucas Underwood from the Changing the Industry podcast and L&M Performance here in Blowing Rock, North Carolina. I am joined today by the one, the only, Mr. Cecil Bullard. We're gonna be talking about car count versus profit. Cecil, how are you today, buddy? Cecil Bullard: I'm doing fantastic as usual, Lucas. Lucas Underwood: Very good. Very good. So Cecil, one of the, one of the things I'll never forget, I taught a class at a industry event one time, and I had been in another class where the person was talking about do whatever it takes to get them in the door, and they'd been in a shop, and they were in their own shop, and the, the advisor had turned down a car at 4:00 in the afternoon that came in for a coupon oil change and wanted to wait. And so she chased the person back out into the parking lot and said, "No, no, no, no, no, we'll get you in. We'll make it work. I'm gonna pull a technician off something else. I'm gonna put them on this," and fired an advisor over it. And I've, I'd been in that class, and I'm talking about that in this training, and that person was sitting in the back of the class and I didn't see Cecil Bullard: him. Yeah. Lucas Underwood: And, and the thing that I said about it was this, is I said, "Listen, one of the most impactful things that I've ever experienced was being on the other side of an experience like that as an advisor, as a technician, what it feels like to feel that kind of pressure and why we shouldn't do that to our people And so I know there's been a massive movement, movement in the industry that's pushing people to say yes to every car that comes in the door. Doesn't matter what it is, just more cars, more cars, more cars, more cars. And I have had a very, very different experience than that. I am someone who has experienced a higher ARO with less stress and less pressure on our people, a better experience for the client, and I have found that that works best for me. And I'm not saying it works best for every organization, but I wanted to dig in with you and talk a little bit about this. Are you a say yes to every car man, or are you a balanced car count and balanced ARO man? Help me understand. Cecil Bullard: I think there's a, I think there's both, frankly. Um- Okay ... it, it has to make common sense, and I think you're really talking about two different things. So first of all- Yeah ... you know, before you fire someone for not doing what you want, does the person really understand what you want, right? Yeah. I mean, is that, is that well defined? Did the guy know that no matter what, I have to bring that car in? Uh, you know, so at 4:00, your service advisor made a decision. He'd made promises to other customers that they would have their cars. Yeah. And instead, now you're jumping in the middle of that and you're saying, "Well, I'm gonna fire this guy because he turned down a, a discount oil change or whatever." Yeah. Maybe a dis- and it- maybe a dis- you know, the guys, the discount oil change guys would say, "Well, yeah, but we do discount oil changes 'cause it leads to other sales." Lucas Underwood: Right. Cecil Bullard: But so that's one thing, you know? I- I- is the person who works at your counter... Um, I, I was in, uh, North Carolina. You saw me last week. I was on the road- Yeah ... for four da- after one of my meetings, and this happens a lot, one of the kids came up, young guy, uh, looked like he was about 14, but he was probably in his 20s, and he's like, "I'm a third generation. My dad runs the shop, but, but you know, my dad, he's getting in the middle of everything. It's really hard." And, and, uh, I, I always say you work for someone, they write you a check- You have to make a decision about what you're willing to put up with or not put up with, right? For sure. As an, as an employee, right? Lucas Underwood: Yep. Cecil Bullard: And so when you decide that I, I wanna work here and I wanna take the check, i- in a way you also decide I'm gonna follow the rules of the company, whatever those are. Yeah. Whether Cecil agrees with them or Lucas agrees with them or, or whatever. None of that really matters. What matters is that the person that's writing you a check is, is basically saying, "This is how I wanna do it," right? Lucas Underwood: Right. Cecil Bullard: And, you know, behind the scenes, we can have all the arguments we want. We can sit down and go, "I don't think that's correct." Um, a- a- but until the owner changes their mind about how we do this, then you gotta do- That's how business Lucas Underwood: runs ... Cecil Bullard: you gotta do how, what the owner wants. And so if that employee got terminated legitimately because- Yeah he knew better, then I'm, I'm fine with that. I, I, I think we have a craziness in our industry. I think we've all lost our minds because You know, you, you look at car count, car count. I mean, that's everybody's... That's like the mantra, right? More cars, more cars. I'll make money if I have more cars. Yeah. Well, that's, that's not necessarily true. It's never been true, frankly. Lucas Underwood: Right. Cecil Bullard: Right. You know, we have these shops. I mean, I can't tell you how many times, you know, having done seminars in the industry for well over 20 years and, and, and worked with automotive- thousands of automotive shops, we have these shops that come in, they're doing $2 million a year worth of business and losing money. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And, and so... And we also have shops, frankly, that are doing, you know, uh, 700,000 and losing money, and, and I'm pretty sure there's shops out there doing 10 million and losing money. Yeah. Uh, there's a balance and there's a way to run your business that is successful, right? Yep. Lucas Underwood: Absolutely. 100%. So- And, and look, h- I, I'm gonna, I'm gonna take a play directly from the Cecil Bullard playbook, okay? Hey- I'm gonna pull the play straight out of the playbook because you said something that I think we need to address right here and right now, okay? We Cecil Bullard: lost our minds in our industry? Lucas Underwood: Well, I mean, you would've had to have had one to have lost it, okay? You have to have something to lose it. So, I, the industry in that sense, we're in trouble. But, you know, th- this brings up something that's completely off-topic and, and I'm just gonna ask you what you think about it. There's all these technicians who are really upset right now, right? They're, they're very disgruntled, and it's primarily in the dealership space, right? You know I make these videos and they come out- Yeah every single Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday and Sunday. Yeah. And these videos come out, and all these dealership guys get so upset and so mad because they think that I'm talking about the dealership space. And I keep saying to them, like, you set the terms for what you're willing to accept in that, that job, in that role as an employee, and if you don't like the job, for God's sakes, leave. Cecil Bullard: Yeah, there's- And if Lucas Underwood: everybody leaves- Cecil Bullard: There's so many... There, I mean, you know, I, I think if you got a thousand shop owners in a room and you said, "How many of you need a good technician in your shop?" You know, 999 hands would go up, right? Yeah. Um, the, the... And, and yet we have these techs that are so miserable in their lives, in their sh- in the shop that they're at, and the, bec- the owner doesn't pay me, doesn't appreciate me, doesn't whatever, or she doesn't- Yeah or whatever. Okay, Lucas Underwood: cool. Why Cecil Bullard: are you there? Go somewhere else. Right. I mean, holy, holy crap. Um, yeah. I'm with you, man. I mean- I am like, uh... And I was t- I talk about the level of incompetence you're willing to accept. I, I do that- Yeah ... with owners because, you know, nobody's gonna be Cecil, right? Yeah. And by the way, in Cecil's head, in my brain, I think I do it right all the time. Right. Yeah. I mean, there's a piece of me that knows that's not true, right? But we're all a little- Sure ... insane in some ways, and we think that, you know, we, we know how to do things, and we think that our way is the right way. And, and, but as an owner, I'm gonna work twice as hard as pretty much anybody else, you know? Yeah. If it... I, I was talking to one of our, um, our marketing people. I, I used to print our workbooks, and I used to write our workbooks, and I used to edit our workbooks. Yeah. And, excuse me. I don't, I don't do that now, but I was, I was talking to her and I said, "You know, I used to be here at 2:00 in the morning-" Lucas Underwood: Yeah Cecil Bullard: printing workbooks because I had a class the next day that I needed the workbooks for- Uh ... and putting them together. 100%. And now I'm really glad I don't have to do that. Lucas Underwood: But- We, you know, we got a, we got a review the other day b- at the family business, and it said, "The owner was in there serving food." And I wanted to reply and say, "Yeah, because, like, I gotta do whatever I gotta do." 'Cause Cecil Bullard: everybody quit, and, and I'm in trouble, and I c- I'm the only one. Otherwise, I wouldn't be there. Lucas Underwood: Right. I've gotta do what I gotta do, right? Yeah. Like, this is how we're gonna survive. And, and I, uh... What is it that old Dutch always says? Like, "I'm paying for the blessings of tomorrow with the sacrifices of today." Of today. Whatever it takes. But Cecil Bullard: we a- you know, a- and so you, you create the level of incompetence. And I would say from an owner's point or a manager's point, you say, "Okay, in that position, I'm willing to accept 3% warranty," right? Yeah. So I've got a tech, I'm willing to accept 35 hours a week as a, okay, that's, like, you, you, you hit 35, you're, you're still in my good graces. You- Lucas Underwood: Right ... Cecil Bullard: you only have 3% warranty, you're still in my good graces. But, but also employees have to do the same thing. I mean, you have to decide, what am I willing to put up with? Am I willing to put up with- Yeah ... crappy pay? Well, if you do, and you take the check, and you keep taking the check- Lucas Underwood: Ain't Cecil Bullard: nothing gonna change then shut up. Right? Right. I mean, stop bitching about it. And we're, we're a, an interesting industry. Like you said, maybe we never had a mind, but- Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: you know, we, we, we constantly eat our tails, you know? Yeah. We constantly bitch and bitch and bitch, and, and we don't W- I don't even think we fully understand. So, you know, I'm pretty sure if, um, if, uh, uh, Aaron Stokes was still alive and, and we had Aaron on this, Aaron would be saying, "Yeah, you say yes, and you say yes because of this, this, and this," right? Yeah. Because that was w- that's one of their philosophies, was that yes philosophy. And on the same time, I would be saying Yeah, but sometimes you gotta say no. Yeah. Because you've already made promises to other customers because you're pulling a guy off of a $5,000 job that he could finish up- Lucas Underwood: For a $29 Cecil Bullard: oil change ... and you're gonna have him do a, an oil change where you're gonna lose $35. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And then he's gotta come back to the $5,000 job, and he's gotta get his head back in the game. So now you've increased the odds of, of mistakes happening, comebacks, et cetera. And so I think there's a point where you say to the customer, "Look, you know, we, we would love to do that oil change for you, absolutely. Only I can't do it tonight, right now, because my techs are all tied up on other jobs, and we've made promises to customers." Absolutely. "And I'm pretty sure if you were one of those customers who I made a promise to, you would not want me pulling the tech off of your car to do someone else's- To, to do that ... service or whatever it is, right?" I, I think- And it's not even about a $29 oil change. If it was a $300 oil change, I still wouldn't pull my guy off of a $5,000 job- Yeah at 4:00 to do that oil change. Lucas Underwood: I, I think it's easy, right? Like, so, so my vision of leadership is, is my job is to create a awesome environment for my internal customers, my employees. Right. And, and currently I'm not in the shop that much, so it is my managers' job to create an amazing experience for them, and then they in turn create an amazing experience. The desired outcome is a safely and properly repaired automobile for our consumer that is safe and reliable for them and their families. Or that, that's what we're trying to accomplish, and we have the guardrails which say, "Here is the, the metrics of profitability that we expect, and so you guys stay within these guardrails. Here's where you're going. This is the roadmap. This is what we want." You saw the roadmap. Well- I've, I've got it on the whiteboard, right? Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And so- And you're also not, you're not setting yourself up for success here, right? I'm, I'm bringing a, a $29 oil change. So I'm working with, uh, big old tire guys, uh, not, not the big company, but a guy who owns three locations. Yeah. And we're doing free tire rotations and free brake inspections. Yeah. We're doing hundreds of them. You know what we're selling? Probably Lucas Underwood: nothing. Nothing, Cecil Bullard: right? Lucas Underwood: Right. Cecil Bullard: Because we're so busy doing the tire rotations and brake inspections, we forget to look at the car. We don't have time to get to the Lucas Underwood: actual work Cecil Bullard: that they could approve. We, we forget to estimate the work and, and we don't have time to have a conversation with the customer. Yeah. And so I'm, I'm literally going... I said, "Why, why do you guys do free brake, uh, you know, inspections, free tire rotations?" Yeah. He said, "So we can look at the car." Well, you forgot that- Does it matter if you're not getting the end of it? somewhere along the... Yeah. So now I'm gonna bring this, this oil change in, and we'll get to that question in just a second, but I, I just have to make the point. I'm gonna bring this guy in at 4:00. It's a waiter, you know? Yeah. Uh, we're gonna service the car, and if I have a good technician do a good inspection, we're 35, 45, 50 minutes in. So now we're pushing 5:00 Then we will find stuff on this car that needs to be talked about. Customer may not buy it, but it needs to be talked about. The whole reason I'm doing the cheap oil change is to get the guy in so I can look at the car and try to sell him the things that he really needs, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Except now it's close to 5:00. Is that customer gonna sit for another 15, 20 minutes while- Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: my service advisor estimates the work, and then is he gonna sit for another 15 or 20 minutes with my service advisor after that to discuss what he needs- In- ... so that he can make a good decision? Lucas Underwood: In this instance, the, the, their theory was is like just, just find one thing wrong with the car that will make them leave it, and then do an inspection and provide the inspection later. I didn't feel like that was very kosher. Cecil Bullard: It's not my, it's not the way that I would- Lucas Underwood: No, I didn't feel like Cecil Bullard: it ... I would approach it. And it's certainly, it's certainly not the way that I would teach. I don't wanna have three phone calls with you, right? Yeah. Or three meetings. I don't wanna find one thing and say, "Oh my God, your, y- you know, your oil leak is coming out of the, the whatever timing cover so badly, we've gotta do your timing cover, and it's gonna cost X, Y, Z." And you go, "Okay, you know, I've seen the leaks. Do it." Yeah. And then you leave And then I go, "Oh, and now we've had time to check the car over, so here's another $5,000 worth of crap." Right. I don't wanna have that. I wanna have one conversation. I don't wanna have three or two, right? Right. I may have two because when we get in the middle of stuff, uh- Yeah we may find something- My vein's gonna have to- ... that are related that, that we can't see at that point in time with a basic inspection. But I certainly don't wanna have three conversations. And- Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: and I think you're, um... Everything is i- with a client is about how does that client feel about us, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And that experience with us. And, and so by telling him yes, I made him feel good, okay? So yeah. Tell him, any, anytime you tell someone, "No, I, I really can't do that," if that's all you say, you're in trouble, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Or no. Uh, nobody wants to hear no, right? Yeah. "Oh, my gosh, I would love to do that for you right now, but unfortunately there's just not enough time, and if we did it right now, we wouldn't do you a justice. We wouldn't be able to-" Yeah "... inspect the car. We wouldn't be able to tell you about what's going on with the car. You would not have the information you need to make intelligent decisions, and my whole job is making sure that you have the information you need to make the right decisions about Lucas Underwood: your car." Is advising you, being your advocate. Cecil Bullard: That, that's what I do, right? Yeah. And so this, this yes mentality and this car count thing of just driving as many cars through. We... I watch... I'm a numbers guy. You, y- everyone in the industry kinda knows, you know? Cecil understands the numbers or thinks he does. And- Yeah and I watch shops drive car count, and as they drive car count, I watch sales go down. I watch- Yep ... average repair- Yes ... orders go down. I watch mistakes go up. Employee satisfaction Lucas Underwood: go down. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. The whole nine yards. Employees are, are running around- Yep ... like chickens with their head cut off. Yep. There's a lot more inefficiencies that, that happen in the business. Yeah. And so if you, if you run a shop and you really pay attention, you'll learn where your sweet spots are, right? Yeah. Where does the shop make m- the most money? Where does the shop create the most happy clients? Where does the shop create the best average repair order? You know? Yeah. Those things that matter to me. And then where does the shop create the most profit? Because y- I, I have to, I have to be profitable here i, in the short term, and frankly, in the long term. Yeah. Otherwise, I, I have to go work f- For somebody else, and I'm not employable Lucas Underwood: Right. I, I'm the same way, and I, I think it's important, right? O- one of the things that I'm bad for doing is painting with a broad brush. Yeah. If you own, own a tire store, right? And, and you can turn hundreds of tires a day, that, that's a different model than what we're discussing. We're not talking about a high volume just tire store or something like that. That's a very different model. But even then, these same practices work in that tire store the same way they work in, in a mechanical shop. Cecil Bullard: And- Most of, most of the tire guys that I know are- Mm-hmm ... probably doing 50% tires, 50% um- Mechanical ... at least. Yeah. I mean, I know there's some that are 70% tires, 30% service, but I don't know of- Yeah ... any tires, uh, other than maybe discount tires, that are only doing tires. Just tires. Yeah And not getting into any of the service at all. Um- Lucas Underwood: Well, you know, I, I thought, I was, I've talked with Mark Ponz a lot. Brilliant, brilliant businessman, right? And, and one of the things that I always learned from Mark was, was, "Hey, watch the way we do tire business," and then we kinda shift gears in the mechanical business. You have to. It runs a little bit differently, right? Cecil Bullard: It's a different business, right. Lucas Underwood: And so you've got your tire team that's out here just nailing the tires out, and that's what they do every single day. And, and I've, I've, because of ASEA, I've had some amazing opportunities to work with some of the best tire men in the entire country. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: And, and I always, I was the guy saying like, "You can't make it with tires." How do you make it? And then I meet Mark Ponz and I'm like, "Whoof. He did more than make it with tires." Cecil Bullard: Holy smokes, you can make a lot of money with tires. Yes. But- Lucas Underwood: Yes ... Cecil Bullard: it's a different margin, it's a different business. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. And it, it's ran differently. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: And so, you know, I found my sweet spot to be three cars a day per tech, somewhere between $900 and $1,100 on my ARO. That, that's my sweet spot. That's where we run. That's where things work. We get too much higher than that, we start getting into very complex jobs. And, and listen, I talk to a lot of shop owners, "I got a $3,000 ARO. That's too high." And they're like, "What are you talking about that's too high?" Well, Cecil Bullard: if, if you're a diesel shop, it's not. For sure. If you're a European shop, you're pushing the edge. But- For Lucas Underwood: sure ... Cecil Bullard: but if you're a general repair shop, it's, it's too high, right? Lucas Underwood: Exactly. It means you're Cecil Bullard: doing engines and transmissions all day. It also means you're doing a lot of heavy duty work. Engine repair. And if you're doing a lot of heavy duty work, the margins and the matrixes that- You currently would have in place normally that would be taught to you will never work for your business- Yeah to make the profit you need. Lucas Underwood: Exactly. Right. You're 100% right. You're 100% right. And, and I think that's why, you know, it's like when I talk to folks about coaching with the Institute, I'm always saying, "Listen, there is no cookie cutter model that fits every shop." Like, this is a- I think there, Cecil Bullard: I think there is, frankly. I mean, if you say, "I'm a tire store," there's a model that works best. Yeah. If you say, "I'm a- I don't Lucas Underwood: disagree ... Cecil Bullard: I'm a discount store-" I don't disagree with that ... there's, there's a model that works best. Yeah. But, you know, I was... A- and again, I, I have never run a discount store, so I've never done- Yeah ... a cheap oil change or anything cheap. Or frankly- Right ... I'm, I never, when I was running shops, I never was a discounter. So- Yeah ... I don't understand that model. And I know some guys, however, that run really discount. Yeah. I've known some guys in my life. And, and their model works for them, only their techs are usually, uh, pretty transient because- Yeah they're just- Discount model, that's it ... they're not paying them enough, and they're running too many cars through, and that's, their service advisors can be somewhat transient in that business, and their customers can be somewhat transient in that business. Yeah. So the other part of that is if I'm running a discount model, I have to keep really hounding- Yeah marketing. Tha- those are the guys that are also saying you need to send out 10,000 to 40,000 mailers every month so you can bring- Yeah ... these oil changes in, so you can do enough business to- Here- ... you know, to be profitable. Lucas Underwood: Here, here's my thing, though, okay? When, when we look at the numbers, right? When we look at the financials, because I talk to Eric Jordan all the time at Geisen. Cecil Bullard: Yeah, yeah. Lucas Underwood: And I'm like, "Dude, I... You know where I was at, I didn't have clean numbers." I, I ran through a, a spell where we didn't have good bookkeeping and, and our numbers were a mess. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: And it's impossible to run a business without good clean numbers, right? And so what I'm saying, though, Cecil, is that without good clean numbers, without good clean data, there is no model that's gonna work. And I think that when they have good numbers, that GP number that you have to hit every single month to pay the bill- Cecil Bullard: Yeah ... Lucas Underwood: what, what the shop down the street's charging- They don't, they don't- ... is irrelevant to you. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. They also- Lucas Underwood: What you have to make is what you have to make. Cecil Bullard: If you don't have clean numbers, you make mistakes. Yeah. And you make bad decisions. So, you know, imagine- I've made bad Lucas Underwood: decisions with clean numbers, Cecil. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Right, yeah. But, but, you know, imagine that we brought a new car in or a, you know- Yeah ... a four-year-old whatever, and we didn't have a scanner, and we couldn't get the data- Yeah ... out of the car, and so now what are we doing? Now, now it's the, you know, well, I, I, based on my experience, I think, or- Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: you know, my tech is saying, "Let's- Yeah ... place re- let's rep- replace these six parts. Maybe that's gonna solve the problem." Yeah. I, I don't wanna be that company. I wanna be the company that says, "I know exactly what's going on with your, with your business, and- Yeah these are the three or the five things that we can do that will really improve your business and- Yeah ... put more money in your bottom line, create more happy, happier employees, happier- uh, clients, et cetera. For sure. Um, we do have a question. Let's- Yeah. Kyle ... let's get to the question. 2020, Kyle. I know that this is supposed to be ask me questions, so, and I've al- I have kinda read the question, but I'll let you read it. I read it myself, so. Yeah. " Lucas Underwood: I'm a mobile programming and testing company netting 8% currently." Now, Kyle is a, a fairly new company, very proud of him, doing awesome things. "My GP's 55% per RO, but my car count is only about 10 per week, so two a day. Should my next step be more investment into marketing or jump into coaching to maximize what I currently have?" Cecil, what do you think? Cecil Bullard: Well, I would, I, I, I would lean on the coaching side, and here's why. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Y- Cecil Bullard: you're supposed to be making net 20, and your gross profit is off by, uh, what is that? 12, 14 points. Yeah. I mean, I need 62 to 64% GP. Lucas Underwood: Yep. Cecil Bullard: And I need to know where that's missing. For sure. And what I have to do to get that. So you can bring more cars in at this point, and you'll st- and, and if you maintain a, a net eight, you're just gonna... If you wanna make tw- you know, the 200 K you told- A higher Lucas Underwood: net eight. Cecil Bullard: I wanna make, I don't know, I wanna make $200,000. At 8%, $200,000 is an awful lot of cars to work on, an awful, awful lot of places to make mistakes, and a lo- awful lot of liability. Yeah. At 20%, you know, $200,000 is a lot less cars, it's a lot less liability, and a lot less places to make mistakes. I- So for me, I, I'm, I might do both. It, it would depend on, you know... I mean, 8%, if you're doing, you know, 10,000 a month, okay, I'm making 8%, that's, in my opinion, that ain't enough to survive. You know, if you're doing 100,000, you might do both. You might, you know, get coaching, improve your margins, figure out where your business is going wrong, and then while you're doing that, you might improve car count and put a few more, you know, butts in seats so that I can make 20% on more people instead of 8%. Lucas Underwood: So here, here's my perspective, okay? So, so thing number one for me here Is that you're exactly right, and my reasoning's a little bit different. I would want to fix my net and I would want to fix my gross profit- Gross Cecil Bullard: profit ... Lucas Underwood: first before I started stacking more clients in the door, because now I'm gonna have more attrition because I'm changing my model midstream as opposed to narrowing down and polishing my model right now and getting my model right before I start presenting it to more people, right? Well, then- So, so I can set the expectation early. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And if you, if you do that, you'll have happier clients that will continue- Yeah ... to use you and come back. And- Lucas Underwood: I Cecil Bullard: agree ... this is a mo- mobile programming guy, so his client is probably not, uh, like the end user. This m- he may be working with more shops. I mean, there's- Yep definitely more information I'd need in order to- For sure ... evaluate him. And, and he is- These are the five Lucas Underwood: things ... he's working with a lot of shops. Right. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And, Lucas Underwood: and I think he's doing some mobile diag too. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: But so here- But you're- ... here's the next question to that though, right? Okay. Because I think there's a lot of mobile diag guys out there, there's a lot of mobile techs out there, and, and that does lead us to that next question is, hey- Like I, I'm not... If I do a DVI, how am I gonna upsell something? Because I'm really just coming out to do the diag and program the vehicle. Cecil Bullard: Well, in, if I'm working with other shops, I'm not doing a DVI. We're, we, we are just there to fill a, a place. That's why- Yeah ... I never liked, like, uh, being the alignment guy for the 10 shops around me. Um- Yeah ... because when the car comes in, I see things that- Lucas Underwood: Wasted Cecil Bullard: opportunities ... that the customer should be talking. We, w- we need, I, I feel like- Yeah ... oh, my God, why aren't they telling the customer that, you know, your upper control arm bushings are falling out of the car, and- Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: you c- I can't even align it, right? It, I, uh, uh, but it, I have different roles in, in different places. And, and if I am coming out to do programming and I'm the, I'm at the end user, the, you know, the client who owns the car, and I do a DVI, I might have an opportunity to sell additional stuff. But do I have the tools with me? You know, do I have the parts there? You know, do I have the equipment? Can I do it wherever I'm at, or do I have a place where I can take it and do it? I mean, there's a lot of additional questions and information, you know, depending on the model that you wanna build, right? I- And- Lucas Underwood: Yeah. I- ... Cecil Bullard: I don't think you should run three different models. I think you need to find the model that's gonna work the best for you, and that's the model that you wanna run, and you wanna run it as, a- as, as well as it can be run. Right? Lucas Underwood: I, I don't know anything about the mobile business, and I'm not gonna pretend to. But I, I think if it were me, right, what I would be doing is I'd be working with professional shops, and I'd say, "Hey, what I'll do, you guys get the cars you need programmed lined up. You get everything you need. In other words, do you have multiple cars that are gonna need programming? Do you have things? Try and get those all scheduled on a day for me. I'll come out, and I'll get the repairs made if you need me to do repairs. Whatever. I'll get diags done. But get me a day's worth of work," right? Cecil Bullard: Yeah, yeah, yeah, because I can't be moving around. I'm losing- Exactly ... my time, and time has to be billable no matter what. So either I gotta- Exactly ... charge... If, if I'm, if I'm working with five shops in a day- And I'm traveling around I have to shop Lucas Underwood: to shop, I spend as much Cecil Bullard: time and gas money Lucas Underwood: moving Cecil Bullard: Am I charging enough? Yeah, do, am I charging enough to cover the vehicle, the, the expenses- Yeah ... the, the gas, the rent, the, uh, excuse me, the utilities, the payment, whatever, uh- Yeah you know, or... Utilities, holy smokes. You know, I bet I'm, I'm thinking one thing, and it c- what comes out of my mouth is something else sometimes. Um- Lucas Underwood: We're used to it, Stace, so it's fine. Cecil Bullard: Yeah, it's all right. Guy's losing his mind. Um- You Lucas Underwood: never had one ... Cecil Bullard: and never had one in the first place. Um, but am I charging enough? And- Yeah ... and by the way, if I'm going to one shop and I'm gonna be there all day, that cost, uh, can be less for that shop than if I'm going to five shops. If I'm going to five shops- Yeah ... I have to cover all the traveling time and all the expenses that go with it. I've gotta charge more, otherwise I only make 8% or I only make 3% or whatever. I don't make my 20%, and I need my 20%. Lucas Underwood: I, I, I think, you know, to summarize basically where we've gone with this is, is like, the, the base numbers, the 55 and the 8%, are not fixed by increasing car count. Mm-hmm. So we fix those numbers first. Cecil Bullard: Yep. Lucas Underwood: And then, like, we, we get some of that dialed in, and we get the model dialed in, we get the efficiency dialed in, and then we work on marketing to bring more in if we need it at that point. But that's, I, I, that's how I would take it. Yeah. Cecil Bullard: So imagine you were, say, building houses, and you weren't charging enough, plus you maybe weren't building the house in a correct manner. All right? Yeah. So, and I, I build more houses, I create more liability- Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: that la- later I may have to go back and fix, repair, whatever. Um, I think you always wanna fix the model first. And, and there- Sure ... is a point, you know, hey, I'm a guy. I, I wanna start a business. I don't know what I don't know. Uh, I'm gonna get in there, and I'm gonna work my butt off and, and all of that, but there's a point in that where you have to say to yourself, "I want this to run well- Yeah and I want this, you know, I want... And so I need to know what it really takes to run it well, because I don't wanna work, you know, 12 hours a day, uh, in order to make the money I need to take care of my family or to- Yeah ... you know, take..." So yeah, I, I mean- A- and that, back to the... Okay, so I hope we answered that well enough, Kyle- Yeah, I think so and thank you so much. Thank you so much for that, that question. Um, and, uh, you know, back to this yes mentality, I told you I'm, I'm of both worlds, so I don't wanna tell a customer no, no matter what. Yeah. I, I really don't. But sometimes I have to say, "Yes, but..." Right? Lucas Underwood: Right. " Cecil Bullard: Yeah, we'd absolutely love to take care of that for you. However," right, "this is the situation." Uh, I always try to, um, to create some, uh, empathy, uh- Yeah ... around what's, what's going on in my world. Yeah. And, and by the way, if I get a guy that comes in who's really pissed off because at 4:00 I can't stop everything and change his oil- This is Lucas Underwood: somebody I want in my shop. Cecil Bullard: Yeah, and is that the guy I wanna work with? Yeah. And the answer is no. N- for me, the answer is- Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: uh, uh, unequivocally no. Lucas Underwood: So, so many of these shop owners, okay, and, and I'm gonna be really blunt here, and I'm not talking about the Institute. You blunt? Wait a minute. Yeah, I know, right? I'm not talking about the Institute when I say what I'm gonna say, okay? Cecil Bullard: Okay. Lucas Underwood: But so many of these shop owners, they go to a class somewhere, and somebody gives them these ideas of what to do. Now, listen, I, I've been this guy. I've been disconnected from the front counter. I've been disconnected from the base, and I go to a class, and this person recommends... And, and I'm gonna tell you, why do you think coaches have got such a bad name? There's, there is a coach that, that if you go on TikTok and search his name, it's technicians cussing him. Like, every TikTok video is people just cussing this guy out, right? And it, it's, it's that they have become so disconnected from what it's like to do the job. Now listen- I think what happens is, is that owner has been struggling for a long time. I've told you about this in my personal life before, that I spent so many years fighting and just climbing and trying to get things right and dealing with the stress and the upset client and all the things, that the minute somebody was willing to walk in that front door and take that pressure off of me, I'm like, "Here you go. It's yours. Take it. Do whatever you want with it. I don't care." Right? Cecil Bullard: Like- Well, would you... I mean, if you're gonna listen to someone- Yeah ... give you advice, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Um, uh, you know, uh, am I going to do some research on that person or that company- Lucas Underwood: Absolutely ... Cecil Bullard: and, and find out- Lucas Underwood: Absolutely ... Cecil Bullard: you know, you know, what their clients are, are saying and, and, you know, where did that person get his education? You know- For sure ... what, what's the, where's the- Lucas Underwood: What's Cecil Bullard: their experience? Uh, as they said in What Are the Bona Fides, right? You know- Yeah ... um, uh, in, in whatever movie- Right ... I can't remember the title to, but, um, i- or are, are you just, uh... At one of our events, and again, I'm gonna be brutal but not name their name. Lucas Underwood: Right. Cecil Bullard: You know, last year, um, chose speakers based on the title of their thing. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And, and they got a- Never Lucas Underwood: actually inspected the class or anything. Cecil Bullard: They got a lot of complaints. Uh, uh- Yeah ... and I heard a lot of feedback from people saying, "Wow, I, you know, in 20 minutes I walked out of that class." Yeah. And, and so do you wanna ha- I, I'm not saying we don't wanna have new people in the industry, 'cause we do. We wanna bring new people in, but do you wanna have people that, that have no bona fides, no, no qualifications? Just, they're just basically- Well- The, the thing I hate about the internet is they're able to say, "I'm the expert on this," and all of a sudden- Exactly everybody believes they're the expert on this- 100%. Lucas Underwood: 100% ... Cecil Bullard: even though they don't have the experience. They don't- Well- ... have the, the basic knowledge to really- E- ... be the expert. Lucas Underwood: Here's my beef though, right, is like they, they can come in and say whatever they want and, and it's, it's like a lot of what's being taught in the industry right now has consequences that, that we're not paying for yet. And I believe there were a lot of things taught over the past however many years that we're paying for the consequences right now, right? Like, there's a lot of things that we're paying for that were done years ago, and this is just how the industry works, and now we're paying the price for it. We don't have any techs, and all of these problems and all this stuff's coming up, right? And so when I... I guess what I was saying about, like, they're teaching these things, but they've never been on that side of the counter. And so it's like the shop owner comes back and says, "Hey guys, we're gonna start doing this." Well, let me ask you, Mr. Shop Owner, how many years has it been since you've sat on that front counter? How many years has it been since you were the one getting the butt chewing because you did something that was shady or was... Right? Like, have you disconnected yourself from the, the experience? Have you disconnected yourself from the consumer, the advisor, the technician? So I'm gonna- Because many of the guys we teach- Cecil Bullard: Yeah Lucas Underwood: were technicians, they were advisors. And- Cecil Bullard: Yeah, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna kick you in the teeth here. Lucas Underwood: Okay. I like it. Do it. Cecil Bullard: Just because you sat on the front c- on the front counter- Lucas Underwood: Mm-hmm ... Cecil Bullard: doesn't mean that you learned anything. Lucas Underwood: Of course. Cecil Bullard: So, so I think, um, like having a technician who becomes a service advisor, I would rather have a service advisor who was never a technician. Yeah, I- And I know a lot of shop owners are gonna go, "Man, you're crazy, Cecil." But there's bad habits that you learn as a tech- Yes, absolutely ... that are great habits when you're a tech, but when you're a salesperson, service advisor- They're terrible ... they're not good habits, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And, and so that's one thing. One thing is, okay, so you did it for 20 years. So what, right? And, and I know, you know, that's some of my bona fides. I used... You know, I- Yeah ... I did this. This is... I've, I've, I've run business, been successful, et cetera. I, I believe I've learned a lot of things that, that maybe many shop owners don't really know and understand. Here's, here's the other part of this. There are things that need to be taught to a tech that a service advisor should not be taught. Yeah. There are things that a service advisor needs to know that a tech shouldn't know, and, and there are things that a manager needs to know that are different than a service advisor, and there are things that an owner needs to know that are a, a lot different, and not all of those will, you will learn by being on the counter or by running the business, right? For Lucas Underwood: sure. Cecil Bullard: And, and listen- We... I've got guys that has, have been doing this for 30 years. I see them all the time. They come up and they're like, "Yes, I've been, I've had a shop for 30 years" and, and their business is worth $150,000 all in. And they, and they have no money. Right? A- and but they've been working at this for 30 years. Lucas Underwood: We've always done it this way. Yeah. But, but here's my point, though, is, is where I'm going with this is a little bit different. Where I'm going with this is it's been so long since you've sat on that front counter, and your policies and procedures are causing problems for the front counter that you don't even see. Cecil Bullard: I, I cannot use my policies and procedures when I was running a shop 15 years ago for a shop today. Yeah. Exactly. Lucas Underwood: Um- Cecil Bullard: Exactly ... and, and we don't teach that, you know? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: It might be a good place for you to start, because you can see what a policy and procedure should, should look like. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: But to take my policy, even my sche- the way I scheduled- Lucas Underwood: Yeah, Cecil Bullard: completely different um, uh, today, I think it's a bit different, right? I, i- it has to be modified. But- And that, another thing you want your coach to be is somewhat flexible on certain things, because- Yeah ... if they're not, they're gonna teach you what they learned 25 years ago, right? And- Well, Lucas Underwood: I, I mean, I guess my point in that, though, is let, let's, let's go back to the example given, okay? Of, hey, we're gonna have this situation where we bring this car in, and they've got a coupon, so we just wanna get the car in to convert it into a car that we can turn into a higher ARO, right? Now, I've got an advisor who's at the end of the day. Yeah. They're trying to make all of their telephone calls, they're trying to update all of their clients, they're trying to get everything cleaned up. Cecil Bullard: Once finished the 15 tickets that are going on- Exactly ... they get the money in the bank, et cetera. Lucas Underwood: Trying to make sure- Right ... the shop looks good, trying to get everybody wound down. They're, they're in the end of the day. They're phasing it out. They're getting ready to bookend the day. Plan tomorrow, right? Cecil Bullard: Right. Lucas Underwood: And now I've got a technician who's in the middle of a job, he's got an hour left, and I'm going back and I'm saying, "Hey, I need you to stop what you're doing. I need you to inspect this car. I need you to do an oil change right now. I need you to pull this thing in right now." And plus you're asking the advisor to go to that client, write an estimate for something simple, something that needs to be dealt with right now. It's a big deal to get the car to stay, and now I'm arranging a ride for this person, right? So the- Now you wanna talk about disgruntled, think about how that disrupts every single person in the shop's day. I've disrupted a porter, I've disrupted an advisor, I've disrupted a client, I've disrupted a technician. Cecil Bullard: I've disrupted my profits. Yes. I've disrupted my, my workflow. Lucas Underwood: Absolutely. Cecil Bullard: You know, one of the biggest, one of the biggest expenses in the automotive industry, the biggest cost and, and where we're losing the most money is that we do not have good workflow. Yeah. So the productivity issue, and we have a... Because of that we have a lot of techs complaining 'cause they can't get paid. If they're on flat rate and we don't have productivity, and it is the fault of the business because of our flow, um, then they got a, they got a legitimate complaint, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And, and what we're doing, I have a class called Stack the Deck, and what we're doing is stacking the deck against us. Yeah. We're not stacking it in our favor, Lucas Underwood: right? Right. Cecil Bullard: And so we're doing... By, by bringing that car in at the, at the last minute, we're doing everyone a disservice. Everybody. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: The, the client, the car, the service advisor, the tech that's gonna have to be pulled off, and, and we're creating kind of hatt- havoc and, and bad attitudes. Lucas Underwood: Chaos. Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And, and if we create, you know, bad attitude and havoc in our, and chaos in our business, then what are our results gonna be? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Okay? Exactly. And you can beat guys only so long. You know, you, you can- Yeah ... be a forceful manager and, and use the whip or the, you know, the, the prod or whatever only so long when guys say, "Uh, no more of this." It is not a long-term strategy for running a good business that's gonna last long-term and be profitable long-term. It's just not a good strategy. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Yeah. I think you're exactly right, and, and I think that that's where it comes back to me that, that if I build a workflow That is prioritizing profit over the car count, right? Because I, I don't believe in the, the high car count numbers. I- now let me tell you something. I, I had an epiphany a few years back because I was in three bays. You've seen the shop. Cecil Bullard: Mm-hmm. Lucas Underwood: I was in three bays, and it didn't take a lot- With Cecil Bullard: no ceiling. I mean, nine feet- Yeah ... or eight and a half feet or whatever. Yep. Yeah. Lucas Underwood: It didn't take that much to fill that shop, and it didn't take that much to pay that shop's bills. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: And then you've seen the new shop, and I, I, I'm, I don't even have to tell you, it takes a lot to pay its bills, right? Cecil Bullard: Yes, sir. Lucas Underwood: And so I have a whole new appreciation for people who try and drive car count. Like I get it. I get it. Cecil Bullard: I had a... In the, in the class, I had a, a guy come up and he's like, "Hey, I'm just, I'm just me, and, uh, what should I do now?" And I'm like, "Well, first of all, I, I don't know enough information." Yeah. "But second of all, when it's just you in one bay, you're gonna have the least expense, but you're gonna make the most money." It's gonna be hard because, you know, you gotta be the service advisor. You gotta, you know, when you've gotta answer the phone- Yeah ... you have Lucas Underwood: to stop what you're doing- Maybe you can stack Cecil Bullard: that bank account full like that ... blah, blah, blah. But you, you can. Yeah. I also have to... Kent made a comment that, um, it requires you to hold the stick. Somebody has to hold the stick. Yeah. And my answer is, "It doesn't require me to hold the stick. It requires the stick to be held- Yeah ... and held by somebody that, that knows what, what they're holding and knows what they need to do, right?" Yeah. Flying a plane, I don't wanna put my, you know, uh, 13-year-old grandson flying a plane. He's no experience. I put the stick in his hand, we're probably in trouble. You know, I want, I want a pilot, I want Dutch at the- Lucas Underwood: Exactly ... Cecil Bullard: you know, behind the wheel, right? Lucas Underwood: Well, you know, it's funny you say that because I was getting ready to bring him up. I, I was talking to him years ago. I was really frustrated about the way the shop was going, and he said, "Son, let me tell you something" He said, "When I worked for the airline," he said, "it does not matter who flies that plane or who does what on that plane." He said, "Because I was the left seat captain, that was my job." He said, "I could let anybody I wanted fly the plane. For God's sakes, I could let a passenger fly it." Cecil Bullard: Yeah, but he- "But I Lucas Underwood: could give them- Cecil Bullard: But he's responsible ultimately for what happens on that plane ... Lucas Underwood: I could give them all the authority in the world- Yeah to fly the plane, but ultimately it was still my responsibility." Good luck. And I said, "What does that have to do with me?" He said, "You're letting a bunch of bimbos fly your plane." Yeah. Cecil Bullard: People who don't know. Lucas Underwood: Like- Cecil Bullard: That's like, that's like- You know? It's like- ... going to coaching and, and going to classes- Yeah with people who, who have a nice internet presence who don't really have the, the experience or the knowledge to really help you out. Lucas Underwood: Yeah, 100%. Cecil Bullard: You know? And, and, and- I, I see these, some of these new coaches come on and they say things and I'm like, "Well, that sounds really pretty, but-" Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: you know, it i- i- it's not meaningful or impactful. It just sounds pretty. Lucas Underwood: Right. Okay, we've got a question here. Um, Steve from Wasp Automotive: "My question is how do you decide when adding capacity, another tech, actually helps profit versus creating more chaos?" Been there, done that. It's all in the numbers. It's all in your financials. Ha- I, what do you say, Cecil? What Cecil Bullard: do you- I think, um, I think you look at your business and you say to yourself, uh, you know, like, "I've got three techs. I have one service advisor. I'm probably... My flow is now starting to get affected because one service advisor, three techs." Lucas Underwood: That's Cecil Bullard: for sure. Uh, and 11, 12 cars a day, maybe 15 if you're running a lower ARO model, and that service advisor can't talk to all those people, answer all those phones, deal with everything that's happening and make that happen. So you say to yourself- Yeah ... "Okay, um, I'm gonna add a fourth, uh, uh, tech," before you really have your service advisor stuff really set up. So, you know, I'm, if I'm adding a fourth tech, I'm, I'm certainly probably at that point adding a second service advisor. And if you're, if you're willing, if you have your systems and processes down and your shop is efficient, the, if you have a, a decent ARO, if you, if you know your inspection process and your sales process is good, then let's add a tech. But if you're, if you're adding a tech because you feel like we're, we're stacked too deep and I can't get the work out, then y- y- Yeah ... it's not the tech you need, it's the process you need. Lucas Underwood: So- Right? ... w- what I do in my shop, okay, let me give you a rundown of how I do my daily planning, my weekly planning. Yeah. Is I'm monitoring how much work we have in the shop at any given time. So I know how many hours and I know how many dollars I have in the shop, and I'm saying, "Okay, I know what my typical sales per build hour are, and does that line up with the financial model we've put in place for the shop?" And so if I'm consistently at that number, I can take my hours and I can say, my technicians should be able to turn eight hours a day. There's gonna be days they're a little bit less, there's gonna be days they're a little bit more, but if I have X number of hours and it gives me a runway, because I view this like my runway, right? Like, how far can I go? And I run this shop somewhere between five and seven days out, is, is typically where it falls, right? Yeah. I wanna have between new appointments coming in, right, because I know my average hours per repair order, new appointments coming in versus the work that I have here right now. How much work would that give me, right? And a lot of guys come back and say, "How could you judge what a new appointment's gonna be?" Because it's my average hours per repair order. That's what we always run. It doesn't go up and down hours. It goes up and down five, 10, 15 minutes. It goes up, down .1, .2. It's not a huge swing. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: And so now I'm looking at the shop and I'm saying, "Okay- If that is the case and I have this much work and I'm billing this much, is the work getting done? No, it's not. Okay, well now I have an efficiency problem in the shop. Cecil Bullard: Maybe. Maybe- Okay, the work... Go ahead. Maybe it's an efficiency problem in the shop. Maybe it's a, I have too many clients and I need another tech, right? So- Lucas Underwood: Well, I guess, I guess what I'm saying though is if, if I'm in that situation, right? So if I've got that number and my number is, is each tech should be able to do eight hours a day, and I am not moving that number through the shop, and I go and I look and I find out, hey, I got four hours per day per tech, that's an efficiency problem. And by the way, that's a- Adding another tech Cecil Bullard: will not fix that problem don't hire another tech. Yeah, because now you're gonna have- Unless you- Now you're gonna have five guys doing three hours- Doing four hours a day ... or whatever. So yeah. And, and all the marketing, all the money you've spent on that and everything else- Yep ... is just gonna go by the Lucas Underwood: wayside. 100%. So- But I'm gonna maximize what I have, I guess is my point. I'm, I'm, I, it, it's ran by the numbers. There's a formula. I Cecil Bullard: think, I think if you're smart, you're always maximizing what you have. And so- Yeah ... um, you know, you're, the question that I ask every day is, is why not, right? W- why- Yeah ... aren't we? Why, why, why isn't the institute growing faster? Why are we not, uh, signing up more people? Why are we, you know, whatever, whatever it is. Because the answer to that question is the answer I need to, in order to really move my head- Yeah ... right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Sure. And, and so if you're, if you're saying, you know, I've got, um, six hours of productivity out of my s- out of my techs- And now I'm gonna hire another tech because I have too many cars. Well, m- maybe your price isn't high enough to, you know- Yeah ... maybe your price needs to be a little higher. Uh, so th- that's a way that you might manage car count. So we're booked three weeks out. Well, booked three weeks out is, is not okay, and what, what often happens is I, I have customers come in today, and they were scheduled for whatever, and then we found $4,000 worth of stuff they need, and they wanna buy it- Get bumped I said, "I can't, I can't do it today." Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: So they get bumped a week and a half out, two weeks out. And then the other problem is if I'm, if I'm scheduling that way, and, and I have new people that are, that I'm... They don't know who I am. Yeah. So they're calling for a first time. I need to get those people in either today or tomorrow. Yeah. I cannot- If you wanna retain that ... schedule those people. Yeah. Otherwise, that money I spent is wasted money. Yeah. And, and so, you know, there, again, there's these balancing and tipping points in your business that if you really understand the business and you're watching the numbers as, as Ken says, you know, if you know where you're going and you're, you know, you got s- your hand on the stick, and you got the data that you need- Yeah then all of a sudden, I'm making better decisions, and so I know what to do when I need to do it. And then- For sure. Lucas Underwood: Absolutely ... I Cecil Bullard: think, I think everybody should have mentors or coaches. Uh, y- you know, mentors, uh, uh, many of... Some of those are paid because you, that's what you hired them for. Yeah. And they might be your coach, and some of those are not. I mean, you know, I'll, I'll call you occasionally for something and say, "Hey, Lucas, what do you think about this?" Because- For sure ... frankly, I look at you in s- some areas as that guy where I can call you and get some good information. Right. Um, and, a- a- I just think we have so many people in our industry that they just don't know enough about the business and how- Yeah the business runs to make the best decisions, and so they keep running into the wall. Lucas Underwood: They were really good at fixing cars, and they were really good at maybe selling service. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: But they weren't good at running the business that fixes cars and sells service. Cecil Bullard: Well, Lucas Underwood: how many- There's a d- there's a difference. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And then, you know, how, how about how do I manage these people? I mean, I can't tell you how many times I've heard, "Well, my guys won't do good inspections," or, "They won't take-" "... 20 pictures of the car," or whatever. Ah. And, and, and I'm, I'm like, part of me is, is flabbergasted, right? Yeah. Part of me is like, how, how do you have people that won't do what you need them to do, and you keep writing them a check every, every week- Yeah right, or every two weeks? And, and then part of me is, is angry, like- Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: are you, are you really that dumb that you, you can't figure this out, and, and manage people, and make sure that you're getting, you know, what you need out of your staff? And, and so I, the... I'm always two people in my head, you know? I'm just always. But they keep doing the same thing over and over. Yeah. And they keep thinking they're gonna get different results. Lucas Underwood: You know- Cecil Bullard: It's insanity ... Lucas Underwood: here, here's what stands out to me, because you know I've been working at the other end dealing with- Mm-hmm ... with much younger employees, right? Cecil Bullard: Yep. Lucas Underwood: And I had one a while back come up to me and said, "I really appreciate you holding me accountable." And I said, "What are you talking about?" And they said, "Nobody has ever said to me, 'Why didn't you accomplish this thing?'" And they just acted like I was gonna be upset or was gonna be mad if somebody came and said, "What about?" And they said, "The problem was is I never knew if I was winning or losing. And so I need somebody to tell me I'm doing good or I'm not doing good- Yeah so I understand where I need to go, but that's not happening anywhere else I've been." And see- Cecil Bullard: Well, it doesn't... In most places it does not happen, my friend. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And so- Lucas Underwood: Exactly ... Cecil Bullard: you know, we, we don't have goals. I'll, I'll go into a shop and say, "Well, what are your goals for your techs? How do they win," right? "Well, uh, they do a lot of work and they don't have any comebacks." Well, first of all, not having any comebacks is ridiculous because you can't work on cars without having a comeback. Lucas Underwood: You figure that Cecil Bullard: one out, buddy. Second of all, what's a lot? What's a lot of work, right? I mean- Yeah ... a lot of work is, is 10 hours a day. I mean- Yeah ... uh, people need... If you hold people accountable, if they understand, if you're fair, meaning- Yeah ... they know what their target is, they know what they have to do, and then you hold them accountable, they're very happy. They're happier than they can ever be. Yeah. It's the people that don't have any direction, that don't know if they're winning, you know, every two years, every three years they move to another shop hoping that they can find that thing that they don't have, and the thing that they don't have is goals, targets, accountability, and winning. I mean, those are the things you absolutely have to have to be a happy human being, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: If not, it wears at you and it wears at you until what you do is you go online and you just bitch, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And, and so we got a lot of online complaining going on. Lucas Underwood: Yep. Cecil Bullard: Um- Lucas Underwood: The, the quickest way to a depressing life is unmet expectations. Yeah. And the only human being capable of setting your expectations is you. Is Cecil Bullard: that right? Well, and that's the other thing I think we all... You know, I, I always say, um, managers need to manage, meaning- Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: you know, you... When I was a tech, I kept track of every hour I billed, okay? Now, the reason I was keeping track of every hour I billed was not because I d- I thought my company was gonna not pay me for it. The reason I kept track of every hour was because every day was a competition against yesterday. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: So if I did seven hours yesterday, today I wanna do eight. And, you know, I, I, I'm competing against myself. In, in a way, part of my life has been managing myself because if somebody else- Yeah ... doesn't create the expectations for me, I create the expectations. Lucas Underwood: Amen. Cecil Bullard: Because I need the- The dopamine or whatever that comes from being successful. Lucas Underwood: Amen, Cecil Bullard: buddy. Uh, if not, at the end of the day, you watch me. I'm sitting watching TV doing this because- That's it ... I wasn't successful today, right? I di- I didn't- Yeah ... make anything happen. Lucas Underwood: Kent says, "Complaining can make the problem feel bigger it is to the point it feels insurmountable." Um, I- Cecil Bullard: Yeah, it happens all, all, all the time in this, in this industry ... Lucas Underwood: somebody told me one time that human beings can be in love with their problems. They can make their problems their identity, and so I think that Cecil Bullard: that's- Well, think, think about this. As a technician, I'm a problem solver. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Right? And problems are brought to me all day long, but all of a sudden- Yeah I become a salesperson or I become a manager, sol- creating problems so that I have problems to solve, right? Lucas Underwood: Amen. Cecil Bullard: And, you know, don't get me wrong, you'll... A- as a salesperson you'll have plenty of problems to solve. As a manager you'll have ple- plenty of problems to solve, but we have a lot of people in, in the industry that are creating their own nightmares- Lucas Underwood: Yes Cecil Bullard: and then they're living in them, and then they're complaining about them. Yeah. And, and, and my mind is like, "Okay, fix it." Lucas Underwood: Right? Exactly. Exactly. Cecil Bullard: It might not be easy. It might not be quick, but fix it. Stop doing what you're doing today. Start learning how to do something just a little bit different and, and because you keep going the same way, you keep getting the same thing. Lucas Underwood: That's exactly right. If you continue to do the same thing and expect different results, that is the definition- Is Cecil Bullard: insanity ... of Lucas Underwood: insanity. Cecil Bullard: Yes, sir. Lucas Underwood: Cecil, thank you for being here today. Cecil Bullard: Yes, sir. Well, thank you. I love these things. And- Yes, sir ... uh, thank you for those of you that participated and, uh, and asked questions, and we'll be back again soon I'm sure. Lucas Underwood: That's it. Well, I guess another month and we'll be back Cecil Bullard: here. Another month, and we'll make your head Lucas Underwood: hurt one more time. Another AMA. Yeah. Waiting to hear y'all's questions. Cecil, see you next time, buddy. Cecil Bullard: Love you, brother. Lucas Underwood: Love you, brother.