Rob Eskew’s Rollercoaster Turnaround - Bonus Zoom Episode 1
With Rob Eskew
Now playing — Master Tech to Millionaire
About this episode
Rob Eskew recounts his journey from a small basement shop to a multi-state operation, the near-collapse after rapid expansion, and the hard lessons learned about…
Key takeaways
- —Simplifying business operations can lead to improved profitability.
- —Understanding financials and cash flow is crucial for business success.
- —Investing in proper staffing and training is essential when opening new locations.
- —Transparency in financials helps employees understand the business's health.
- —Celebrating team successes fosters a positive work culture.
Frequently asked
- What should I do if my business is struggling financially?
- Focus on simplifying operations and understanding your financials. Consider breaking down your business into manageable parts to identify areas for improvement.
- How can I ensure my new store is successful?
- Overstaff your new location initially and invest in training to ensure a strong start. Make sure the store is fully operational before opening.
- Why is transparency in financials important?
- Transparency helps employees understand the business's financial health, fostering a culture of accountability and encouraging them to contribute to profitability.
▸Full transcript
We got a special guest this morning. Not really a guest, he's on every time, but Mr. Rob Esquire. Yo, yo, good morning. Good morning. Good morning. So man, we're gonna do something fun this morning. We'll probably start doing this going forward. Really wanna kind of pick the brains of everybody that's come through and kind of, you know, we share our journey quite often and kind of this carnival ride, as Todd likes to call it, with everybody.
And I thought it'd be fun if we got some different perspectives, right? There's a lot of different, a lot of different situations and different companies, whether it be in size or location, demographics, all the different things that are applicable. And when we come through Key2Key, there's a lot of things that we'll hear from different people like, "That won't work in my area," or, "You don't understand my situation," anything from rust to pits to demographics to, uh, you know, you name it, we've heard everything.
Uh, but the cool thing about it now is, uh, I feel like it's been, it's been proven in all markets. And so we're going to start doing some interviews to try and get different perspectives of different people. And so this morning we were going to start with Mr. Rob Eskew, Superstar. Good morning. Good morning, Superstar. Great news. True Autobahn. True, let's go.
Starting with True, I got to spend some time with True a few weeks ago. It was just a lot of fun. And Rob's obviously just an incredible, incredible guy. So So anyway, good morning, Mr. Rob. Good morning. Thanks for having me on here. Good morning. Yes, absolutely, man. So I just want to kind of hear where it all start for you, if you could kind of dive into that.
I know it's been several years, just kind of a brief story. Yeah, I'll fast forward through some of it. So, you know, we started the business. I always say we started at the bottom with a $100 mixed bag of tools in the basement of an out-of-business strip mall. Up in an area of the north suburbs of Atlanta called Lawrenceville. In fact, I was embarrassed to tell people where my business was because everyone would say, where's Lawrenceville?
And I'm like, it's Gwinnett. It's Gwinnett. So kind of quaint, humble beginnings. Bought our first building in 2016, got involved with the ShopFix people right around 2018, in which we bought our second location. In Marietta, Georgia. Basically, it was a real estate deal. We bought the business for a dollar because it was doing about $40,000 to $55,000 in revenue a month. And the owner wanted out and, you know, none of his kids wanted it.
You know, the typical really dirty, scary shop that had no legacy plan. We then bought two more stores because we were in ShopFix. We bought two more stores and the end of 2019, right before COVID which almost wiped us out. And then we got involved with some other people from ShopFix. We partnered up to make 4 of us as a group, and then we started buying stores like crazy.
And I remember always kind of waving flags and like, guys, we don't even have these set up yet. And, you know, they just wanted more revenue, more and more revenue. Fast forward, we got to 15 stores across 3 states, and the most expensive deals we did, because we were just kind of high off our success, if you will, we did several deals that went really well.
When we bought our Decatur store, you know, we doubled it in a month and everything went well. You know, no change in marketing, no change in a lot of things other than, you know, saying yes. But, you know, we really did not have a system in place. So we finally did a couple of deals and the wheels just fell off the bus.
And we did— we ultimately did about $42 million in revenue in 2024. And as I said during the Adam Coffee event, we made no money. In fact, we made negative money on $42 million, which is absolutely terrifying. And so, you know, I got to give credit where it's due. Aaron Stokes was like, hey, you know, you guys need to break your business up.
And I remember being a little bit nervous because I had been so far removed from the business. I kind of helped do legal stuff and quote unquote looking for acquisitions and then remodeling all the stores once we bought them and things like that. So I was so far removed from operations. You know, I would want to go in the trenches with the wrenches, but anytime I visited stores, my partners would fuss and say, you know, that's not how we want to do our, that's not how we want to run our operations.
You know, we want to have managers in place and regional managers and things like that. And I'm thinking, can't even go to my stores? That doesn't make any sense. And so we were, amicably willing to separate the business. We drew a line and I took Georgia along with my original partner, and my ex-partners took what was west of the Mississippi in Colorado and Texas.
And, you know, the business had gotten so complicated because of my, my original business partner, absolutely brilliant soul, but just made everything 10 more steps, 20 more steps even. Than things needed to be. And so, you know, we really didn't have a framework like Auto Shop Answers. I had visited Todd Hayes way back when, probably 5 years ago when they did the trainings upstairs at 1010.
And I remember being like, guys, this is the truth. This is where even all the ShopFix stuff comes from. You know, this is, this is, this is it. Like, we need to roll out this model., and we sent several people and they would just want to pick and choose at it and they weren't willing to surrender and go all in, which fast forward, after breaking up with the old partners, I started taking over the company and my mission was to simplify everything.
Simplify, simplify, simplify. In fact, I have a picture of a rocket booster. It's the Raptor 1 versus the Raptor 3. And if anyone Googles that really quick, you'll see the Raptor 1 engine looks scary as all get out. There's hoses and pipes and tubings and all this stuff wrapped all around this engine. And you can tell it's probably powerful, but it's definitely not reliable and it definitely looks like a mess.
And then the Raptor 3 engine is just like this smooth machine. And I remember going around all the stores being like, all right, guys, this is what we're going to do. We're going to simplify this business and we're going to turn it up. And at the time it was just a dream. And I was obviously quite nervous taking over as well as having to get in front of everybody and say, you know, we, we kind of went out of business.
Uh, we didn't break up because money was good. Let's just be honest. Um, and, uh, you know, in fact, the accounting was so bad. We spent over $1 million in accounting around about maybe $800, maybe up to over $1 million. Regardless, I just call it a million for the story's sake. And we couldn't even get P&Ls in time and the balance sheets were all a mess and things like that.
And so I said, all right, look, everyone, Georgia alone did $15.6 million last year. So, and we, and we, and we still netted $1 million. So we're still, we're still good. Well, by the time they finished closing out the books, I said they forgot to put the negative sign. So we still lost $1 million. Which was a delta of 2, right? You know, so I thought we made a million, but in fact we had lost over $1 million in 2024.
And so we were in debt up to our eyeballs. Every line of credit was tapped out. We were in forbearance with the banks. They wanted all their money now. And I'm like, holy cow. Like, I've never missed a payment on anything. I've never missed payroll. I've never missed any of my personal payments on anything. Like, how could we be in this situation?
Well, they violated bank covenants. Even though we never paid late on anything, we were not in compliance with their regulations. And so we had real estate debt and they wanted all that money now. And I said, holy cow, like, I got to raise $9 million. And so I ended up having to borrow some money from my dad. In the meantime, like, while doing all this, I'm like, all right, either we got to break this business up.
You can take 3 stores, I'll take 3 stores, or, you know, I got to buy you out or you got to buy me out. And so my business partner agreed. Obviously, I didn't want to screw him over because we had a really long marriage. And so he gave me a number which the business was not worth at all. And I was like, all right, I'm gonna figure out how to get you this number.
Just so we could part ways amicably. In fact, at the time I was his next door neighbor, which made things even more fun. We had chicken coops together, so, and a bunch of kids. He had 3 boys under 3 and I had a daughter who was probably 1 at the time. And I'll never forget my mortgage payment bounced and that was pretty much my rock bottom.
Sorry, I'm gonna cry. But yeah, I called Todd Wesserlund with the same tone of voice I have right now, freaking out, and said, Todd, I gotta come back and see y'all. And Todd's— and I was like, I don't know. You know, Todd's like, he's like, come, man, we'll make it work. You gotta come. And so we brought Jordy and Kevin Lynch out there in May 2025, and the lights, the light bulb went off.
And we decided we're going to go all in. And ever since then, it's been great. We've been learning every day. I think we got 5 or 6 or 7 of us coming out this weekend. Try to not miss them. I have missed several, but I made a promise to myself I'm not going to miss any more going forward because it's just so good.
Still, though, in November, we were hitting records, but we weren't making any money. And I owe a huge debt of gratitude to Bill Broussard and obviously Charlie. Love those guys. And they go, man, you're not parping. So what the hell's parping? They said, you don't know what parping is? How do you— how long you been going? You don't even know what parping is?
And so we did $1.38 million in November and only made about $12 grand after we had to pay $6 grand for a hood on a Range Rover that blew up. Blew up and on a test drive. So I was like, holy cow, that's a lot of risk to have a 3-year warranty and da da da da da. And, you know, we had gone from about 47% margin prior, we were up to about 52-ish, 53.
And they were like, you can't, you can't run world-class service on 52% margin, you gotta make 62.5%. And I always thought some of the people's numbers on the Moneyball chat weren't accurate. Or they didn't have their tech costs right and tech metric or what have you. But they were right. You do need to make over 60%. So we got the whole company around it.
This is where I got to give my team huge amounts of credit. I said, guys, we got to make 62.5%. And everyone said, heck yes. And we've been putting attention on that and we've made crazy money every month since. So I've paid back the loan to my family. They're paid off. All of our lines of credit are all paid off. All the parts centers are all paid off.
We pay the credit card every week now, which is cool. We got taxes coming up. Obviously, we had to file a little extension because of all the complexities of the old business that we're still working to wrap up. But I'm not worried about paying our tax bill this year, you know, and I can send 6 people out to Texas confidently. Knowing that we can pay the bill as soon as Todd Wessel sends it over.
So, but yeah, I'd love to get any more details than that. I can happily deep dive, but it's a dream come true, pun intended. I appreciate you, you know, just being so honest about that because, you know, everybody sees you now and sees true. And it's like we're on Moneyball and everybody's, you know, just cheering you on. And, uh, we see this happy smile and man, like Rob's crushing it.
And, you know, people just don't understand, especially people on here, you know, that wanna, wanna run their business one day or own their own business one day or whatever that is. Um, to understand, like, there's always a backstory. Everybody sees You know, it's kind of like they say, you know, it took Charlie, it took you 20 years to be an overnight success, right?
Yeah. And so that's right. And people don't, they don't really see that and understand that. And so I didn't know any of that. We actually talked about that. Yeah, I didn't know any of that. I mean, you shared a lot with me when I was out there, when you took me back to my hotel and I was like, wow, man, that's, that's incredible.
I didn't know all that. And, um, we're just so happy. Go ahead. Thank you. I just wanted to tell him thank you for being so transparent, man, because people gotta hear these stories. You know, it's not all, uh, roses, right? We all start somewhere, and nobody, nobody started successful. Nobody, nobody started the big company. Nobody started successful. It's just the way the world works.
But you got to stick with it. It's impressive, man, what you've done. But I don't know how many owners are here, even the non-owners, you got to hear this because it's hard to believe when you're not an owner. How could you possibly get to work, work your butt off all months, right? You see cars in and out, parts moving, this and that, and then at the end of the month you have to pay money.
I was actually in the car the other day with somebody, I'm telling him this, they're like, no way. I'm like, yep, the day you go through that, it is the most painful day of your life. You're like I worked my butt off, you know, fixed so many cars, I dealt with so many people, and I have to pay money. That's insane, you know.
So, so you have to fix that. But then once you get— once you get to figure out the system, like I said, and right now we all know your numbers are very positive, great job. But it just gives you this comfort level, it gives you this, this swag. You're, you're actually able to make better business decisions too. When you're under the gun and you have all that pressure, you make dumb decisions.
We all do. So don't you feel that way, Rob? Oh, I mean, it was scary. In fact, I had to, you know, personally, I had to cut all spending. Right. And then in the business, I said, guys, like, you know, I still walk around looking in trash cans and say, hey, these gloves don't have holes in them. Like, why are they in the trash?
And again, I still want to keep that culture of not wasting stuff. But under the previous administration, as I call it, I mean, we were just so wasteful. And in fact, you know, and I still remember how hard it was to earn $100. My goal when starting the business, if I could make $100 a day, I wouldn't default on my rent with my roommate.
Because I told him, I said, hey, one day, because he had a really good job at the time, he made $70 grand a year. And I said, hey, you know, just in case I'm ever late on rent, you know, I'll always pay it. Don't you worry. And he said, if you're ever late on rent, I'll I'll kill you. So I was like, oh, okay, that changed.
Yes, sir, I will never be late on rent. And so, you know, I still respect that $100 bill so, so much. And, you know, getting back to our basics, our roots, whenever having to take this company back over, and I appreciate everyone's buy-in to that. But now, you know, we've been, upgrading the floors, upgrading the lighting, you know, all these kinds of stuff.
So I'm trying to pay it back to the guys. You know, we just had an amazing celebratory dinner with our Sandy Springs store after they hit a record. You know, we all went and ate, you know, one of the most baller steakhouses in Atlanta. Took the whole team there. So more to come for the other stores if you're listening. Yeah, definitely want to keep celebrating, listening to Jack Wellsch's book Winning right now, and he says most companies don't celebrate enough.
So we're definitely going to make sure we keep celebrating all these wins. So you mentioned something. Oh, go ahead, Charlie. No, I was going to say it's very emotional, man. You kind of make me go back memory lane and it's scary. I remember with Phil once we visited a store and whatever store that was, somebody else's story kind of reminded him of back of his days, and he started like freaking out.
We had to leave in a hurry. I mean, uh, Rob, you bring it back, memories. We've all been there, man. We've all been there. It's real. And you know, you love winning or you hate losing, and if you hate losing a lot, man, it will push you further than you think. So amazing. Absolutely. And for anyone, anyone listening who hasn't yet been through Key2Key, I'll spot you the money if you can't go.
Just call me. You know, it's worth it. I've got, I've got some first-timers coming out this weekend. You know who you are. I've been telling you, you need to go, you need to go. Money's been tight for them. And I just kept telling them, you know, you better go. And they're starting to set records and they haven't even gone yet. And so anyone can do it.
I like what Glenn said, you know, you guys have implemented it now in enough markets to prove it. You know, there's no excuses. You just surrender to the process. It's the best darn business model. It's God-given, like Todd Hayes says. So it most certainly is. Yeah. You had made a mention that you guys had a bunch of stores and Some were really good and some weren't.
And that's very typical of going multi-unit. You see that all the time. People that have a store and it's successful and then they start growing and overexpanding and it can actually destroy your company because we've all heard the story and I know it. Like I ask people in Key to Key all the time, Hey, how many people here multi-unit? And then the hands go up.
And then I say, so let me just kind of tell you, because I already know you have a few stores that are really good. You have a few stores that are just really bad. And the good stores take care of the bad stores. And then everybody starts cracking up laughing because they know it's true because they don't know how to scale business properly.
They just think it's all about store count. And at the end of the day. I mean, I was with the company that we were printing more money to the bottom line, 6 stores and 10 stores with way more exposure, you know, and so— Well, I got to say one thing real quick, especially about being able to go into your stores. So each of my partners had stores, like they had one store, each of them, that probably net $1 million each.
And they literally threw that away to try to do this big multi-unit thing. And, you know, it wasn't scalable. And so someone at the Adam Coffee thing said, well, how many units do I need to be valuable to private equity? It's like one. One. Yes. Yeah. And, you know, sure. Yeah. People can do it with multiple locations. But I jokingly say it's like, hell, if, if we had half the stores we had, it would have been a lot easier to roll this out.
But hell, we're still doing it across 6 stores. But Regardless, like my partners had stores that netted $1 million. And then after we added, did all these add-ons, they weren't bringing home $200 grand. They'd probably bring home less than that. And obviously digging themselves really deep in a hole with debt. So yeah, start slow, guys. Like one store is amazing. I love what Todd says, you know, one spectacular store a year.
Don't move on to the next store until you've got that one absolutely dialed in doing $500K a month. Um, you know, Charlie's perfect example. Yeah. And be ready and be staffed. And so like one thing that we do when we open up a store is, um, we overstaff. I mean, I remember when we were opening up the Sienna location, I mean, I had 15 people at my store at 10:10 and we're paying these people, right?
And this is big money because it's still got to be A players. You can't start with B players and work your way up to A players. So, um, we started advertising, you know, immediately $25,000 a month for advertising. We've got all these high-paid guys at my store training at 10:10. And so when we open up the store, we are staffed for success, you know, and a lot of people, they want to start with a couple of people and work their way into that.
And I tell the story all the time. Hey, look, if we're going to start an NFL franchise, you're not going to start with 8 players and say, hey, look, when we start winning games, we'll put 11 on the field. It just doesn't work. So you have to be able to have the capital to be able to invest. You gotta be able to go and lose some money for a while to be able to make big money.
And people just don't understand that. And they can literally destroy somebody, uh, very, very quickly. Um, you know, you said the Land Rover hood flew open and that's $6,000, right? And that's a lot of money when you're printing $12,000 to the bottom line for the whole company. Um, and that's, you know, $6,000 is, I mean, that's like almost like a best case scenario for a catastrophe.
Um, you know, you could have so many things happen, um, that could literally just, uh, just crush you. So you've got to be prepared. Yeah. You don't have to have a bunch of stores. You just have to have, um, you know, one successful store at a time. And so it's very important. So let me ask you this. So when you started, when you guys had the When you guys went your separate ways, you had your stores, what was your revenue basically when you said, hey, look, I'm ready to come back to Pete and Keith, what revenue were you doing?
I need to do the math really quick. So I would love even Jordy to chime in 'cause he's super focused. I remember, I think, so I remember this is kind of funny, but our goal was $47,000 GP a month because of Donald Trump. And, and that was like a wish list. And now, now our goal— or was that for— I'm sorry, it was $47,000 a day, but we've hit like $100,000.
Actually, I'm misspeaking. I think I'm misspeaking. Yeah, it was our goal. Our goal at the time was $47K. That's what we would post up in our Slack channels thinking that that was like so impossible to get to. Now it's our average. Yeah, um, so many stories like this, man. I mean, we have so many people like JJ. He nets more money than he used to gross.
Those are the stories. See, now it becomes normal. And you guys, you guys are really just finding your stride. So imagine what it's going to be in a year from today, right? Well, one more cool thing too. It used to be— there used to be such huge swings in the cash flow because, you know, we didn't have good cash flow management back then.
So, you know, we'd get a whole bunch of money and it's gone. We get some money and it's gone, right? Like, we, we, we just hit an all-time high score. I sent Todd Hayes a screenshot of my, you know, little cash flow spreadsheet. And then we did a huge $150,000 payroll and, and it didn't really change the number. Because it just— because now we're paying credit cards weekly instead of every month, you know.
So it's just like this nice smooth linear curve now, whereas before it was just this roller coaster of fear and uncertainty. In fact, when, when we took the company back over in January, my business partner took a HELOC out on his house to make payroll in January. I mean, we were broke. Wow, man, you got— everybody's got to hear that. So Um, you gotta make payroll, man.
It's like, man, you're running the company and the employees, you know, they don't understand. Um, they think if you— I mean, you could be doing $150,000 in a month, okay? And your employees can look at that and go, wow, we did $150,000 this month or $200,000 this month or whatever it is. And then, um, they think that you are just living the dream, man.
And, and you're the owner and man, this guy's got no worries in the world. And meanwhile, they're taking out a line of credit on their house to make payroll. And people don't really understand. Well, we had a— yeah, we had a really good teammate who actually thought we made— because they thought the gross profit was how much we made. They're like, we made $1 million in gross profit last year.
I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You actually probably earned more as your salary than what we earned as the business. You know, and I want you to earn a whole lot of money, but at the end of the day too, the business needs to make money or it's just not worth the risk. And, you know, can you go do something else?
Um, but yeah, now we're trying to teach all of our people more. We've got a completely transparent, open set of books and, you know, we're getting the P&Ls done by the 9th or the 10th of each month. And, uh, and hopefully out to all the, all the teammates before the 15th. So going from spending a million dollars in accounting to, Having 2.5 kind of teammates in accounting to get P&Ls accurate and on time is also a dream.
So yes, sir. Charlie, let me back up one second, Rob, what you just said about the swings in the cash flow. Yeah, because I've been there and it's the scariest thing. So what happens is if you have a good month, now the next month you better follow it up with another good month because what happens all the bills from the previous month come in and it sucks away all your cash flow.
Now, if you have a bad month going and there's not enough good cash flow, your bank account just gets drained so fast and you're like, what's going on here? So wherever you ramp up your numbers, make sure they're sustainable numbers. And pay your bills. Yeah. You know, it's a, you know, it's a funny story about that. Like when it comes to like, man, wanting to pay your bills and pay them on time.
Like, you know, like with me, I know at our shop I have vendors that sometimes are a little bit lackadaisical on collecting their money, which is crazy to me. Whether, like, if I do a job and I owe somebody something for that job, I sometimes have to chase them down to pay that bill. And you might think that's crazy, but I want that off my page.
I want that bill paid because it's going to hit me at some point. And a lot of people hold off and probably think that that's great. Like, Hey, I just had this service done, right? Like, I just had my, like, my lift fixed or something. It was $2,000. And like, the vendor's not even like sending me a bill for it yet. Like, just kind of— I'm calling that vendor.
I'm like, hey, man, I want to pay my bills as they happen. Like, I want to pay this like the day you do the job. I want you to charge my card because I want it done. I want it off my page. It's done. It's accounted for. And so that's a really good point, Charlie. Yeah, these bills, they will, uh, they will come in and they will definitely pile up.
Um, oh yeah, on taxes too, uh, just a little nugget, um, I know Fallon takes notes, that you can actually have like a separate bank account. Take like 10% of your income, of the business income, and just put it in an account. Just save that for taxes. So then at the end of the year or quarterly, however to your taxes, you know, scrambling to find the money.
It's a little nagging, like, you know, you're going to have to pay taxes, right? So just prepare for them. You cannot avoid them. Yep. Two things you can't avoid: death and taxes. There's a great book called Profits First by Michael Michalowicz that if you're, if you're small, that's a great book to kind of get you going. So that way you're putting those monies aside because you definitely never want to get blindsided by tax bill.
So yeah. Now let me ask you this, Rob. I know you've been to the Accounting First, the fraud and prevention program, and that's something that not nearly enough people sign up for, I think, because they're probably a little bit intimidated by it and scared about it, you know. And so can you share anything about that and maybe what you took from that and what you've learned from that?
Yeah, absolutely. And I got tripped up on my numbers here a second ago just because I'm pacing outside and it's cold. I'm all excited on the call here, but yeah, if you don't know your numbers, if you don't, if you're not counting your money, someone else is. And it's really, it is definitely intimidating at first, but as soon as you start really learning it, and so yeah, definitely everyone needs to go to that class.
It's a shame that more people don't know more about their numbers in our industry. And, you know, be humble. Like, you can always learn and get better every day.. I'm certainly learning every day, but I've definitely made sure to put a lot more emphasis on that. In fact, my dad was really fussing at me a lot. I'm like, ah, you know, 'cause he's a big kind of just run your business from your numbers kind of guy.
I'm more of an in the trenches with the wrenches kind of guy. But you still need to know your numbers and you can look at your numbers from day one. Go figure. Yes. You nailed it. Let's freaking go. That's what me and Jordy were talking about. Yeah, me and Jordy are like, all right, from now on, you know, we're not lining up in the loser lounge.
We're gonna, we're gonna get our printouts and we can look at them on day one. So yeah, full transparency too. So, and, and if you think anybody online that owns the business and thinks that nobody's stealing from them, you are in a different planet. You're not living in reality. I am telling you the truth. I'm not trying to scare you, but it's just the truth.
But you should be scared, by the way, anyway. You're so big brain, bro. And even sometimes not maliciously. Like, I was sending back some parts and I saw WorldPac gave us a $16 credit for a $300 battery. And I was like, oh my God, they just took that as a core. You're right. I guess. I caught it real time. But that's also happened across 6 stores.
So that's going to be my next goal is parts. Yes. I know we're losing a lot on parts right now. Man, thank you so much. As you guys came and visited me, asked Jordy how's my parts in Utah. I, I got rid of the parts shelf. We're like, man, if there's no shelf for cores and returns, there won't be any money getting lost.
So we got rid of it. We just have a little like 2x2 area that you can put parts on, so you can only have a couple of parts. That's it. Everything else has to go by now. One funny thing, and Glenn, you might be about to say it, So obviously we knew Glenn was coming. It was a short notice, but everyone stayed late, everyone cleaned up, everyone, you know, sent back or hid all the parts at Lawrenceville.
And the first thing that Glenn said when he got in my car was, Rob, you got to get your parts together, man. I was like, oh crap, you don't even know. We got it cleaned up for your visit. He said they cleaned it up for you. I was like, oh boy, man, that's, that's rough, dude. So here's— and let me— and I'll chime in on parts because Uh, I'm gonna tell you kind of what happened with us.
So, um, as we grew, we had a parts person, and, um, I kind of gave up that control of parts to a parts person. And, um, you know, even though they were monitoring everything incoming, outgoing, and all that, I felt like I had no control over it. Okay. Um, because it's a lot, it's a lot to handle. Now I've switched it up where now I have my parts shelf in Bay 1, okay?
Right next off to the, off to the side. It's a very little small cart or a little small shelf. And I manage it all with a couple of team members that we hawk it constantly. Okay. And so same thing for me last week, 2 batteries that I got cores for that should have been, you know, full credits for, sent back 3 parts, got credit for 1, sent back 2 parts, same part number, got credit for 1.
I mean, combined, probably $500, $600 that I was able to find in real time. That money will walk out your door. And knowing where every single part is, and I'm, you know, working on training the entire team to understand and know this and kind of rotating through people to just run parts for a day because it can be overwhelming. But if you are down to— and this is, if you get here, Rob, this will be great, and this will be great for everybody— any freaking part that's in your shop, send it back if it's not accounted for.
If it's a part that you think is going to be something you're going to use one day because you didn't get credit on it for some reason or what, just freaking get rid of it and just move on and start with the clean slate with every single part being either a return or an active part, and then it becomes way easier to manage.
So when I took over the parts, essentially what my last parts guy that I had here was pretty much slacking— I'll tell you, I'll tell you something, you have a parts person and you're not paying attention to this, let me tell you what was happening with my stuff. Uh, um, I'd have a technician that maybe misplaced a part or something like that.
Well, my parts guy— and this is why it's so important to know your stuff, like, and holding people accountable. Like, I have a parts guy that was, um, taking apart— he couldn't find the part for whatever reason. And then instead of bringing it to me and saying, hey, I couldn't find this part, okay, um, he ran it through the system like we got credit for it, okay, pushed it through because his kind of performance review or the visibility we had to his job performance was what's my return screen show?
How many returns do I have coming and how many parts that need to go back? And so we look closely at that number, right? That number should be very, very tight, like under 10 almost at all times in the middle of a busy day. And by the end of the day, it should— there should be like a few parts maybe left carried over that should go back.
And this is— I'm gonna tell you, this is us. We just did— we just wrapped up a million dollar month, right? And at the end of it, there was no parts left over, right? It's all accounted for. What's that? I said, let's go. That is perfect. Yeah, let's freaking go. And so what I found out was I was losing money on the back end because this guy was pushing stuff through, but we were actually never getting the credit for it.
And it creates an accounting nightmare upstairs. So When you have control of it in Bay 1 and you see every part that's coming in, it gives you a much more— it gives you so much more control over the parts and an awareness of every single core that's out there on the floor, every single defect that you're waiting to come back to. You know where everything is at throughout the day.
And so it, you know, we came up with a system which is at my shop, we have— each technician has a rolling basket, you know, and it sits by their cart. And the top shelf is just all incoming parts, and the bottom shelf is, uh, all their parts that need to go back. So we can walk through the shop several times a day and we just hit that bottom shelf and we know everything that needs to go back.
I don't need a tech to bring the part to me or anything. They know my new parts are up top, my return parts are on the bottom. And we just make those sweeps through the shop and we're looking for them. And then they're in tune with Tekmetric knowing, okay, this part has a core or this part doesn't. Plus we tag them all when they come in.
We put a— this has a core or this doesn't. This is a defect. And so they know. And so having control over that, at first it can be overwhelming. I was overwhelmed in your parts room that day and that was after you guys cleaned it up. And I'm like, man, I can see— I see money, right? I see it. I could just see it.
I saw an alternator there. I saw a headlight there. I could just see money just sitting there. Um, and you had brought up something to me, uh, Rob, about an $800 headlight that you had sitting on the shelf. Uh, I remember, and it was sitting there, and, um, I don't remember what the situation was, but it was literally just sitting there, right?
And you just went and took it back, and it was $800. Yeah, we're lucky we got credit for it because, you know, those, those little timelines will run out. Um, yeah, $800 bucks. Yeah, $800, man. And so which could, you know, anywhere that'll, you know, equal anywhere from, you know, depending on your gross margin. I mean, that's, that's, you know, an $8,000 boom, a $4,000 boom, a $6,000 boom, a sale that it takes for you to make that $800 back.
And the employees just don't get that. So open book financials is super important. The employee thinks you're making 6 times what you're actually making. If you don't tell them. And so it's super important to have that open book, you know, open book financials. So, okay, so I know we're running out of time here, but one other question I want to ask you before we jumped off was when you guys made the, made the switch and the commitment, what was it like from like your staffing as far as like the buy-in from the team and what did you have to do to get everybody on board?
And maybe probably some, I would imagine some people— Yeah, absolutely. I think, what, say the last part of your question, sorry. And I was saying, I would imagine some people probably didn't make it. Absolutely. You know, we actually wanted to kind of stick it to Todd or whoever said that we would have to turn over a lot of our team, 'cause you know, we wanted to prove that we can do it with our teammates and get them bought in.
And so yeah, we've definitely had to turn over some people. I'll say, I think at first a lot of people probably thought it was just that next flavor, 'cause in the, you know, I'm not trying to say anything negative about Shotfix, I love it, but it has its, you know, limits. So it was kind of like back in the day, it was like, what's the new color of the month?
What's the new little shiny object that we're gonna try to implement today? And then there wasn't really a lot of follow-up or something else shiny came along., and we're just putting our attention on that, right? So I'm sure a lot of the teammates that were with us through the previous iterations of the business were worried, okay, you know, we've heard this before.
Okay. You know, here it comes again. But what's been so great is, is that we've just been committed to this and you don't have to do a lot of the thinking. I remember Bill Lewandowski getting so excited when he finally understood what paint-by-numbers means. You know, we're just executing now at this point. We don't have to, you know, redesign anything. We're putting something in place that already works, you know, and frankly, I just don't think the other people have figured it out.
And if they had figured it out, they'd be doing the numbers that all of you guys do. And hopefully that I can proudly say that we do. We had 4 of our stores over $300K, and I think it was Charlie or Pardon me if I'm mistaken who was telling me this, but someone at the tech conference was talking about, you know, some of the other coaching groups, like not even hardly any of their companies do $300K.
And I feel like we got 4 of our stores doing $300K and that's just getting started, right? We'll be doing $400K here soon, you know, and ultimately $500K per month per location, so. Definitely want to keep everybody. I think just submitting to the process is huge. And obviously once they go through key to key and they actually see it themselves, you know, that's, that's definitely usually a game changer as well.
You know, you can start seeing those light bulbs go off. So I want to keep getting everybody in my company off to key to key. We still have to run the company while— but I'm like, Jordy, shut it down, baby. Send them out there. Yeah, super important changes. It's changing, especially now with AI. I tell people all the time, look, if you were at the last AI class, I'm sure it was amazing because I know they're all amazing, but you're way behind now because it's happening so fast.
The stuff that's happening, like Joe sent me this report last night on the inbound call center and some of the numbers breaking it down through Codex of all of our calls, thousands of calls, and then level 1, Absolutely is now a good time. Level 2, anytime presentation. Level 3, new customer introductions. Level 4, still pushback. He had the, he sent me over, me and Mike Quinn, thousands of calls with all of the data on the close ratio, conversion ratio on each level of each call, okay?
To just understand If they say, hey, can I do this? And we're like, absolutely, now a good time, is now a good time. We know what the conversion ratio of that, we know if they want a price, what the conversion ratio is on that. And we know where there's some opportunity for us to look at. And so if you were at the last class, you're way behind.
If you haven't been back in 6 months, you're, you mean you're like pre-internet basically based on what's happening right now. With Codex, it's like insane, the stuff that we're able to do with it, and we're just getting started on it. So Rob, I know we're about up on time. Thank you so much for jumping on and sharing your story. We'll have another one next week.
We'll have somebody else featured next week to kind of hear their story. So man, great job out there. Love you guys. Thank you, Rob, and for everybody else. Sorry, there's some echo here. You have to go all in. If you halfway, you're never gonna make it like to this level of success and just to be confident that it's gonna keep getting better, right?
So you have to go in, just surrender. I keep telling people every class I start, I challenge this enough for everybody here. You don't have to challenge it, just go dive in and let some things go, some old habits, and trust me, it's just gonna work out. Boom, sign up, man. There's some, there's some spots available. It's going to be fire. So anyway, get with Todd Westerland.
Got some great stuff coming up. Thank you guys. Y'all have an awesome day. Let's rock. Thanks, everybody, man. See ya.
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Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode. 👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://youtu.be/7M70n_DfTDg Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this! Links & Resources: Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com. Episode Transcript: Ask Me Anything Car Count vs. Profit - Why More Cars Doesn't Always Mean More Profit Lucas Underwood: What is up, everybody? Hey, y'all. It's Lucas Underwood from the Changing the Industry podcast and L&M Performance here in Blowing Rock, North Carolina. I am joined today by the one, the only, Mr. Cecil Bullard. We're gonna be talking about car count versus profit. Cecil, how are you today, buddy? Cecil Bullard: I'm doing fantastic as usual, Lucas. Lucas Underwood: Very good. Very good. So Cecil, one of the, one of the things I'll never forget, I taught a class at a industry event one time, and I had been in another class where the person was talking about do whatever it takes to get them in the door, and they'd been in a shop, and they were in their own shop, and the, the advisor had turned down a car at 4:00 in the afternoon that came in for a coupon oil change and wanted to wait. And so she chased the person back out into the parking lot and said, "No, no, no, no, no, we'll get you in. We'll make it work. I'm gonna pull a technician off something else. I'm gonna put them on this," and fired an advisor over it. And I've, I'd been in that class, and I'm talking about that in this training, and that person was sitting in the back of the class and I didn't see Cecil Bullard: him. Yeah. Lucas Underwood: And, and the thing that I said about it was this, is I said, "Listen, one of the most impactful things that I've ever experienced was being on the other side of an experience like that as an advisor, as a technician, what it feels like to feel that kind of pressure and why we shouldn't do that to our people And so I know there's been a massive movement, movement in the industry that's pushing people to say yes to every car that comes in the door. Doesn't matter what it is, just more cars, more cars, more cars, more cars. And I have had a very, very different experience than that. I am someone who has experienced a higher ARO with less stress and less pressure on our people, a better experience for the client, and I have found that that works best for me. And I'm not saying it works best for every organization, but I wanted to dig in with you and talk a little bit about this. Are you a say yes to every car man, or are you a balanced car count and balanced ARO man? Help me understand. Cecil Bullard: I think there's a, I think there's both, frankly. Um- Okay ... it, it has to make common sense, and I think you're really talking about two different things. So first of all- Yeah ... you know, before you fire someone for not doing what you want, does the person really understand what you want, right? Yeah. I mean, is that, is that well defined? Did the guy know that no matter what, I have to bring that car in? Uh, you know, so at 4:00, your service advisor made a decision. He'd made promises to other customers that they would have their cars. Yeah. And instead, now you're jumping in the middle of that and you're saying, "Well, I'm gonna fire this guy because he turned down a, a discount oil change or whatever." Yeah. Maybe a dis- and it- maybe a dis- you know, the guys, the discount oil change guys would say, "Well, yeah, but we do discount oil changes 'cause it leads to other sales." Lucas Underwood: Right. Cecil Bullard: But so that's one thing, you know? I- I- is the person who works at your counter... Um, I, I was in, uh, North Carolina. You saw me last week. I was on the road- Yeah ... for four da- after one of my meetings, and this happens a lot, one of the kids came up, young guy, uh, looked like he was about 14, but he was probably in his 20s, and he's like, "I'm a third generation. My dad runs the shop, but, but you know, my dad, he's getting in the middle of everything. It's really hard." And, and, uh, I, I always say you work for someone, they write you a check- You have to make a decision about what you're willing to put up with or not put up with, right? For sure. As an, as an employee, right? Lucas Underwood: Yep. Cecil Bullard: And so when you decide that I, I wanna work here and I wanna take the check, i- in a way you also decide I'm gonna follow the rules of the company, whatever those are. Yeah. Whether Cecil agrees with them or Lucas agrees with them or, or whatever. None of that really matters. What matters is that the person that's writing you a check is, is basically saying, "This is how I wanna do it," right? Lucas Underwood: Right. Cecil Bullard: And, you know, behind the scenes, we can have all the arguments we want. We can sit down and go, "I don't think that's correct." Um, a- a- but until the owner changes their mind about how we do this, then you gotta do- That's how business Lucas Underwood: runs ... Cecil Bullard: you gotta do how, what the owner wants. And so if that employee got terminated legitimately because- Yeah he knew better, then I'm, I'm fine with that. I, I, I think we have a craziness in our industry. I think we've all lost our minds because You know, you, you look at car count, car count. I mean, that's everybody's... That's like the mantra, right? More cars, more cars. I'll make money if I have more cars. Yeah. Well, that's, that's not necessarily true. It's never been true, frankly. Lucas Underwood: Right. Cecil Bullard: Right. You know, we have these shops. I mean, I can't tell you how many times, you know, having done seminars in the industry for well over 20 years and, and, and worked with automotive- thousands of automotive shops, we have these shops that come in, they're doing $2 million a year worth of business and losing money. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And, and so... And we also have shops, frankly, that are doing, you know, uh, 700,000 and losing money, and, and I'm pretty sure there's shops out there doing 10 million and losing money. Yeah. Uh, there's a balance and there's a way to run your business that is successful, right? Yep. Lucas Underwood: Absolutely. 100%. So- And, and look, h- I, I'm gonna, I'm gonna take a play directly from the Cecil Bullard playbook, okay? Hey- I'm gonna pull the play straight out of the playbook because you said something that I think we need to address right here and right now, okay? We Cecil Bullard: lost our minds in our industry? Lucas Underwood: Well, I mean, you would've had to have had one to have lost it, okay? You have to have something to lose it. So, I, the industry in that sense, we're in trouble. But, you know, th- this brings up something that's completely off-topic and, and I'm just gonna ask you what you think about it. There's all these technicians who are really upset right now, right? They're, they're very disgruntled, and it's primarily in the dealership space, right? You know I make these videos and they come out- Yeah every single Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday and Sunday. Yeah. And these videos come out, and all these dealership guys get so upset and so mad because they think that I'm talking about the dealership space. And I keep saying to them, like, you set the terms for what you're willing to accept in that, that job, in that role as an employee, and if you don't like the job, for God's sakes, leave. Cecil Bullard: Yeah, there's- And if Lucas Underwood: everybody leaves- Cecil Bullard: There's so many... There, I mean, you know, I, I think if you got a thousand shop owners in a room and you said, "How many of you need a good technician in your shop?" You know, 999 hands would go up, right? Yeah. Um, the, the... And, and yet we have these techs that are so miserable in their lives, in their sh- in the shop that they're at, and the, bec- the owner doesn't pay me, doesn't appreciate me, doesn't whatever, or she doesn't- Yeah or whatever. Okay, Lucas Underwood: cool. Why Cecil Bullard: are you there? Go somewhere else. Right. I mean, holy, holy crap. Um, yeah. I'm with you, man. I mean- I am like, uh... And I was t- I talk about the level of incompetence you're willing to accept. I, I do that- Yeah ... with owners because, you know, nobody's gonna be Cecil, right? Yeah. And by the way, in Cecil's head, in my brain, I think I do it right all the time. Right. Yeah. I mean, there's a piece of me that knows that's not true, right? But we're all a little- Sure ... insane in some ways, and we think that, you know, we, we know how to do things, and we think that our way is the right way. And, and, but as an owner, I'm gonna work twice as hard as pretty much anybody else, you know? Yeah. If it... I, I was talking to one of our, um, our marketing people. I, I used to print our workbooks, and I used to write our workbooks, and I used to edit our workbooks. Yeah. And, excuse me. I don't, I don't do that now, but I was, I was talking to her and I said, "You know, I used to be here at 2:00 in the morning-" Lucas Underwood: Yeah Cecil Bullard: printing workbooks because I had a class the next day that I needed the workbooks for- Uh ... and putting them together. 100%. And now I'm really glad I don't have to do that. Lucas Underwood: But- We, you know, we got a, we got a review the other day b- at the family business, and it said, "The owner was in there serving food." And I wanted to reply and say, "Yeah, because, like, I gotta do whatever I gotta do." 'Cause Cecil Bullard: everybody quit, and, and I'm in trouble, and I c- I'm the only one. Otherwise, I wouldn't be there. Lucas Underwood: Right. I've gotta do what I gotta do, right? Yeah. Like, this is how we're gonna survive. And, and I, uh... What is it that old Dutch always says? Like, "I'm paying for the blessings of tomorrow with the sacrifices of today." Of today. Whatever it takes. But Cecil Bullard: we a- you know, a- and so you, you create the level of incompetence. And I would say from an owner's point or a manager's point, you say, "Okay, in that position, I'm willing to accept 3% warranty," right? Yeah. So I've got a tech, I'm willing to accept 35 hours a week as a, okay, that's, like, you, you, you hit 35, you're, you're still in my good graces. You- Lucas Underwood: Right ... Cecil Bullard: you only have 3% warranty, you're still in my good graces. But, but also employees have to do the same thing. I mean, you have to decide, what am I willing to put up with? Am I willing to put up with- Yeah ... crappy pay? Well, if you do, and you take the check, and you keep taking the check- Lucas Underwood: Ain't Cecil Bullard: nothing gonna change then shut up. Right? Right. I mean, stop bitching about it. And we're, we're a, an interesting industry. Like you said, maybe we never had a mind, but- Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: you know, we, we, we constantly eat our tails, you know? Yeah. We constantly bitch and bitch and bitch, and, and we don't W- I don't even think we fully understand. So, you know, I'm pretty sure if, um, if, uh, uh, Aaron Stokes was still alive and, and we had Aaron on this, Aaron would be saying, "Yeah, you say yes, and you say yes because of this, this, and this," right? Yeah. Because that was w- that's one of their philosophies, was that yes philosophy. And on the same time, I would be saying Yeah, but sometimes you gotta say no. Yeah. Because you've already made promises to other customers because you're pulling a guy off of a $5,000 job that he could finish up- Lucas Underwood: For a $29 Cecil Bullard: oil change ... and you're gonna have him do a, an oil change where you're gonna lose $35. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And then he's gotta come back to the $5,000 job, and he's gotta get his head back in the game. So now you've increased the odds of, of mistakes happening, comebacks, et cetera. And so I think there's a point where you say to the customer, "Look, you know, we, we would love to do that oil change for you, absolutely. Only I can't do it tonight, right now, because my techs are all tied up on other jobs, and we've made promises to customers." Absolutely. "And I'm pretty sure if you were one of those customers who I made a promise to, you would not want me pulling the tech off of your car to do someone else's- To, to do that ... service or whatever it is, right?" I, I think- And it's not even about a $29 oil change. If it was a $300 oil change, I still wouldn't pull my guy off of a $5,000 job- Yeah at 4:00 to do that oil change. Lucas Underwood: I, I think it's easy, right? Like, so, so my vision of leadership is, is my job is to create a awesome environment for my internal customers, my employees. Right. And, and currently I'm not in the shop that much, so it is my managers' job to create an amazing experience for them, and then they in turn create an amazing experience. The desired outcome is a safely and properly repaired automobile for our consumer that is safe and reliable for them and their families. Or that, that's what we're trying to accomplish, and we have the guardrails which say, "Here is the, the metrics of profitability that we expect, and so you guys stay within these guardrails. Here's where you're going. This is the roadmap. This is what we want." You saw the roadmap. Well- I've, I've got it on the whiteboard, right? Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And so- And you're also not, you're not setting yourself up for success here, right? I'm, I'm bringing a, a $29 oil change. So I'm working with, uh, big old tire guys, uh, not, not the big company, but a guy who owns three locations. Yeah. And we're doing free tire rotations and free brake inspections. Yeah. We're doing hundreds of them. You know what we're selling? Probably Lucas Underwood: nothing. Nothing, Cecil Bullard: right? Lucas Underwood: Right. Cecil Bullard: Because we're so busy doing the tire rotations and brake inspections, we forget to look at the car. We don't have time to get to the Lucas Underwood: actual work Cecil Bullard: that they could approve. We, we forget to estimate the work and, and we don't have time to have a conversation with the customer. Yeah. And so I'm, I'm literally going... I said, "Why, why do you guys do free brake, uh, you know, inspections, free tire rotations?" Yeah. He said, "So we can look at the car." Well, you forgot that- Does it matter if you're not getting the end of it? somewhere along the... Yeah. So now I'm gonna bring this, this oil change in, and we'll get to that question in just a second, but I, I just have to make the point. I'm gonna bring this guy in at 4:00. It's a waiter, you know? Yeah. Uh, we're gonna service the car, and if I have a good technician do a good inspection, we're 35, 45, 50 minutes in. So now we're pushing 5:00 Then we will find stuff on this car that needs to be talked about. Customer may not buy it, but it needs to be talked about. The whole reason I'm doing the cheap oil change is to get the guy in so I can look at the car and try to sell him the things that he really needs, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Except now it's close to 5:00. Is that customer gonna sit for another 15, 20 minutes while- Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: my service advisor estimates the work, and then is he gonna sit for another 15 or 20 minutes with my service advisor after that to discuss what he needs- In- ... so that he can make a good decision? Lucas Underwood: In this instance, the, the, their theory was is like just, just find one thing wrong with the car that will make them leave it, and then do an inspection and provide the inspection later. I didn't feel like that was very kosher. Cecil Bullard: It's not my, it's not the way that I would- Lucas Underwood: No, I didn't feel like Cecil Bullard: it ... I would approach it. And it's certainly, it's certainly not the way that I would teach. I don't wanna have three phone calls with you, right? Yeah. Or three meetings. I don't wanna find one thing and say, "Oh my God, your, y- you know, your oil leak is coming out of the, the whatever timing cover so badly, we've gotta do your timing cover, and it's gonna cost X, Y, Z." And you go, "Okay, you know, I've seen the leaks. Do it." Yeah. And then you leave And then I go, "Oh, and now we've had time to check the car over, so here's another $5,000 worth of crap." Right. I don't wanna have that. I wanna have one conversation. I don't wanna have three or two, right? Right. I may have two because when we get in the middle of stuff, uh- Yeah we may find something- My vein's gonna have to- ... that are related that, that we can't see at that point in time with a basic inspection. But I certainly don't wanna have three conversations. And- Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: and I think you're, um... Everything is i- with a client is about how does that client feel about us, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And that experience with us. And, and so by telling him yes, I made him feel good, okay? So yeah. Tell him, any, anytime you tell someone, "No, I, I really can't do that," if that's all you say, you're in trouble, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Or no. Uh, nobody wants to hear no, right? Yeah. "Oh, my gosh, I would love to do that for you right now, but unfortunately there's just not enough time, and if we did it right now, we wouldn't do you a justice. We wouldn't be able to-" Yeah "... inspect the car. We wouldn't be able to tell you about what's going on with the car. You would not have the information you need to make intelligent decisions, and my whole job is making sure that you have the information you need to make the right decisions about Lucas Underwood: your car." Is advising you, being your advocate. Cecil Bullard: That, that's what I do, right? Yeah. And so this, this yes mentality and this car count thing of just driving as many cars through. We... I watch... I'm a numbers guy. You, y- everyone in the industry kinda knows, you know? Cecil understands the numbers or thinks he does. And- Yeah and I watch shops drive car count, and as they drive car count, I watch sales go down. I watch- Yep ... average repair- Yes ... orders go down. I watch mistakes go up. Employee satisfaction Lucas Underwood: go down. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. The whole nine yards. Employees are, are running around- Yep ... like chickens with their head cut off. Yep. There's a lot more inefficiencies that, that happen in the business. Yeah. And so if you, if you run a shop and you really pay attention, you'll learn where your sweet spots are, right? Yeah. Where does the shop make m- the most money? Where does the shop create the most happy clients? Where does the shop create the best average repair order? You know? Yeah. Those things that matter to me. And then where does the shop create the most profit? Because y- I, I have to, I have to be profitable here i, in the short term, and frankly, in the long term. Yeah. Otherwise, I, I have to go work f- For somebody else, and I'm not employable Lucas Underwood: Right. I, I'm the same way, and I, I think it's important, right? O- one of the things that I'm bad for doing is painting with a broad brush. Yeah. If you own, own a tire store, right? And, and you can turn hundreds of tires a day, that, that's a different model than what we're discussing. We're not talking about a high volume just tire store or something like that. That's a very different model. But even then, these same practices work in that tire store the same way they work in, in a mechanical shop. Cecil Bullard: And- Most of, most of the tire guys that I know are- Mm-hmm ... probably doing 50% tires, 50% um- Mechanical ... at least. Yeah. I mean, I know there's some that are 70% tires, 30% service, but I don't know of- Yeah ... any tires, uh, other than maybe discount tires, that are only doing tires. Just tires. Yeah And not getting into any of the service at all. Um- Lucas Underwood: Well, you know, I, I thought, I was, I've talked with Mark Ponz a lot. Brilliant, brilliant businessman, right? And, and one of the things that I always learned from Mark was, was, "Hey, watch the way we do tire business," and then we kinda shift gears in the mechanical business. You have to. It runs a little bit differently, right? Cecil Bullard: It's a different business, right. Lucas Underwood: And so you've got your tire team that's out here just nailing the tires out, and that's what they do every single day. And, and I've, I've, because of ASEA, I've had some amazing opportunities to work with some of the best tire men in the entire country. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: And, and I always, I was the guy saying like, "You can't make it with tires." How do you make it? And then I meet Mark Ponz and I'm like, "Whoof. He did more than make it with tires." Cecil Bullard: Holy smokes, you can make a lot of money with tires. Yes. But- Lucas Underwood: Yes ... Cecil Bullard: it's a different margin, it's a different business. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. And it, it's ran differently. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: And so, you know, I found my sweet spot to be three cars a day per tech, somewhere between $900 and $1,100 on my ARO. That, that's my sweet spot. That's where we run. That's where things work. We get too much higher than that, we start getting into very complex jobs. And, and listen, I talk to a lot of shop owners, "I got a $3,000 ARO. That's too high." And they're like, "What are you talking about that's too high?" Well, Cecil Bullard: if, if you're a diesel shop, it's not. For sure. If you're a European shop, you're pushing the edge. But- For Lucas Underwood: sure ... Cecil Bullard: but if you're a general repair shop, it's, it's too high, right? Lucas Underwood: Exactly. It means you're Cecil Bullard: doing engines and transmissions all day. It also means you're doing a lot of heavy duty work. Engine repair. And if you're doing a lot of heavy duty work, the margins and the matrixes that- You currently would have in place normally that would be taught to you will never work for your business- Yeah to make the profit you need. Lucas Underwood: Exactly. Right. You're 100% right. You're 100% right. And, and I think that's why, you know, it's like when I talk to folks about coaching with the Institute, I'm always saying, "Listen, there is no cookie cutter model that fits every shop." Like, this is a- I think there, Cecil Bullard: I think there is, frankly. I mean, if you say, "I'm a tire store," there's a model that works best. Yeah. If you say, "I'm a- I don't Lucas Underwood: disagree ... Cecil Bullard: I'm a discount store-" I don't disagree with that ... there's, there's a model that works best. Yeah. But, you know, I was... A- and again, I, I have never run a discount store, so I've never done- Yeah ... a cheap oil change or anything cheap. Or frankly- Right ... I'm, I never, when I was running shops, I never was a discounter. So- Yeah ... I don't understand that model. And I know some guys, however, that run really discount. Yeah. I've known some guys in my life. And, and their model works for them, only their techs are usually, uh, pretty transient because- Yeah they're just- Discount model, that's it ... they're not paying them enough, and they're running too many cars through, and that's, their service advisors can be somewhat transient in that business, and their customers can be somewhat transient in that business. Yeah. So the other part of that is if I'm running a discount model, I have to keep really hounding- Yeah marketing. Tha- those are the guys that are also saying you need to send out 10,000 to 40,000 mailers every month so you can bring- Yeah ... these oil changes in, so you can do enough business to- Here- ... you know, to be profitable. Lucas Underwood: Here, here's my thing, though, okay? When, when we look at the numbers, right? When we look at the financials, because I talk to Eric Jordan all the time at Geisen. Cecil Bullard: Yeah, yeah. Lucas Underwood: And I'm like, "Dude, I... You know where I was at, I didn't have clean numbers." I, I ran through a, a spell where we didn't have good bookkeeping and, and our numbers were a mess. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: And it's impossible to run a business without good clean numbers, right? And so what I'm saying, though, Cecil, is that without good clean numbers, without good clean data, there is no model that's gonna work. And I think that when they have good numbers, that GP number that you have to hit every single month to pay the bill- Cecil Bullard: Yeah ... Lucas Underwood: what, what the shop down the street's charging- They don't, they don't- ... is irrelevant to you. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. They also- Lucas Underwood: What you have to make is what you have to make. Cecil Bullard: If you don't have clean numbers, you make mistakes. Yeah. And you make bad decisions. So, you know, imagine- I've made bad Lucas Underwood: decisions with clean numbers, Cecil. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Right, yeah. But, but, you know, imagine that we brought a new car in or a, you know- Yeah ... a four-year-old whatever, and we didn't have a scanner, and we couldn't get the data- Yeah ... out of the car, and so now what are we doing? Now, now it's the, you know, well, I, I, based on my experience, I think, or- Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: you know, my tech is saying, "Let's- Yeah ... place re- let's rep- replace these six parts. Maybe that's gonna solve the problem." Yeah. I, I don't wanna be that company. I wanna be the company that says, "I know exactly what's going on with your, with your business, and- Yeah these are the three or the five things that we can do that will really improve your business and- Yeah ... put more money in your bottom line, create more happy, happier employees, happier- uh, clients, et cetera. For sure. Um, we do have a question. Let's- Yeah. Kyle ... let's get to the question. 2020, Kyle. I know that this is supposed to be ask me questions, so, and I've al- I have kinda read the question, but I'll let you read it. I read it myself, so. Yeah. " Lucas Underwood: I'm a mobile programming and testing company netting 8% currently." Now, Kyle is a, a fairly new company, very proud of him, doing awesome things. "My GP's 55% per RO, but my car count is only about 10 per week, so two a day. Should my next step be more investment into marketing or jump into coaching to maximize what I currently have?" Cecil, what do you think? Cecil Bullard: Well, I would, I, I, I would lean on the coaching side, and here's why. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Y- Cecil Bullard: you're supposed to be making net 20, and your gross profit is off by, uh, what is that? 12, 14 points. Yeah. I mean, I need 62 to 64% GP. Lucas Underwood: Yep. Cecil Bullard: And I need to know where that's missing. For sure. And what I have to do to get that. So you can bring more cars in at this point, and you'll st- and, and if you maintain a, a net eight, you're just gonna... If you wanna make tw- you know, the 200 K you told- A higher Lucas Underwood: net eight. Cecil Bullard: I wanna make, I don't know, I wanna make $200,000. At 8%, $200,000 is an awful lot of cars to work on, an awful, awful lot of places to make mistakes, and a lo- awful lot of liability. Yeah. At 20%, you know, $200,000 is a lot less cars, it's a lot less liability, and a lot less places to make mistakes. I- So for me, I, I'm, I might do both. It, it would depend on, you know... I mean, 8%, if you're doing, you know, 10,000 a month, okay, I'm making 8%, that's, in my opinion, that ain't enough to survive. You know, if you're doing 100,000, you might do both. You might, you know, get coaching, improve your margins, figure out where your business is going wrong, and then while you're doing that, you might improve car count and put a few more, you know, butts in seats so that I can make 20% on more people instead of 8%. Lucas Underwood: So here, here's my perspective, okay? So, so thing number one for me here Is that you're exactly right, and my reasoning's a little bit different. I would want to fix my net and I would want to fix my gross profit- Gross Cecil Bullard: profit ... Lucas Underwood: first before I started stacking more clients in the door, because now I'm gonna have more attrition because I'm changing my model midstream as opposed to narrowing down and polishing my model right now and getting my model right before I start presenting it to more people, right? Well, then- So, so I can set the expectation early. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And if you, if you do that, you'll have happier clients that will continue- Yeah ... to use you and come back. And- Lucas Underwood: I Cecil Bullard: agree ... this is a mo- mobile programming guy, so his client is probably not, uh, like the end user. This m- he may be working with more shops. I mean, there's- Yep definitely more information I'd need in order to- For sure ... evaluate him. And, and he is- These are the five Lucas Underwood: things ... he's working with a lot of shops. Right. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And, Lucas Underwood: and I think he's doing some mobile diag too. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: But so here- But you're- ... here's the next question to that though, right? Okay. Because I think there's a lot of mobile diag guys out there, there's a lot of mobile techs out there, and, and that does lead us to that next question is, hey- Like I, I'm not... If I do a DVI, how am I gonna upsell something? Because I'm really just coming out to do the diag and program the vehicle. Cecil Bullard: Well, in, if I'm working with other shops, I'm not doing a DVI. We're, we, we are just there to fill a, a place. That's why- Yeah ... I never liked, like, uh, being the alignment guy for the 10 shops around me. Um- Yeah ... because when the car comes in, I see things that- Lucas Underwood: Wasted Cecil Bullard: opportunities ... that the customer should be talking. We, w- we need, I, I feel like- Yeah ... oh, my God, why aren't they telling the customer that, you know, your upper control arm bushings are falling out of the car, and- Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: you c- I can't even align it, right? It, I, uh, uh, but it, I have different roles in, in different places. And, and if I am coming out to do programming and I'm the, I'm at the end user, the, you know, the client who owns the car, and I do a DVI, I might have an opportunity to sell additional stuff. But do I have the tools with me? You know, do I have the parts there? You know, do I have the equipment? Can I do it wherever I'm at, or do I have a place where I can take it and do it? I mean, there's a lot of additional questions and information, you know, depending on the model that you wanna build, right? I- And- Lucas Underwood: Yeah. I- ... Cecil Bullard: I don't think you should run three different models. I think you need to find the model that's gonna work the best for you, and that's the model that you wanna run, and you wanna run it as, a- as, as well as it can be run. Right? Lucas Underwood: I, I don't know anything about the mobile business, and I'm not gonna pretend to. But I, I think if it were me, right, what I would be doing is I'd be working with professional shops, and I'd say, "Hey, what I'll do, you guys get the cars you need programmed lined up. You get everything you need. In other words, do you have multiple cars that are gonna need programming? Do you have things? Try and get those all scheduled on a day for me. I'll come out, and I'll get the repairs made if you need me to do repairs. Whatever. I'll get diags done. But get me a day's worth of work," right? Cecil Bullard: Yeah, yeah, yeah, because I can't be moving around. I'm losing- Exactly ... my time, and time has to be billable no matter what. So either I gotta- Exactly ... charge... If, if I'm, if I'm working with five shops in a day- And I'm traveling around I have to shop Lucas Underwood: to shop, I spend as much Cecil Bullard: time and gas money Lucas Underwood: moving Cecil Bullard: Am I charging enough? Yeah, do, am I charging enough to cover the vehicle, the, the expenses- Yeah ... the, the gas, the rent, the, uh, excuse me, the utilities, the payment, whatever, uh- Yeah you know, or... Utilities, holy smokes. You know, I bet I'm, I'm thinking one thing, and it c- what comes out of my mouth is something else sometimes. Um- Lucas Underwood: We're used to it, Stace, so it's fine. Cecil Bullard: Yeah, it's all right. Guy's losing his mind. Um- You Lucas Underwood: never had one ... Cecil Bullard: and never had one in the first place. Um, but am I charging enough? And- Yeah ... and by the way, if I'm going to one shop and I'm gonna be there all day, that cost, uh, can be less for that shop than if I'm going to five shops. If I'm going to five shops- Yeah ... I have to cover all the traveling time and all the expenses that go with it. I've gotta charge more, otherwise I only make 8% or I only make 3% or whatever. I don't make my 20%, and I need my 20%. Lucas Underwood: I, I, I think, you know, to summarize basically where we've gone with this is, is like, the, the base numbers, the 55 and the 8%, are not fixed by increasing car count. Mm-hmm. So we fix those numbers first. Cecil Bullard: Yep. Lucas Underwood: And then, like, we, we get some of that dialed in, and we get the model dialed in, we get the efficiency dialed in, and then we work on marketing to bring more in if we need it at that point. But that's, I, I, that's how I would take it. Yeah. Cecil Bullard: So imagine you were, say, building houses, and you weren't charging enough, plus you maybe weren't building the house in a correct manner. All right? Yeah. So, and I, I build more houses, I create more liability- Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: that la- later I may have to go back and fix, repair, whatever. Um, I think you always wanna fix the model first. And, and there- Sure ... is a point, you know, hey, I'm a guy. I, I wanna start a business. I don't know what I don't know. Uh, I'm gonna get in there, and I'm gonna work my butt off and, and all of that, but there's a point in that where you have to say to yourself, "I want this to run well- Yeah and I want this, you know, I want... And so I need to know what it really takes to run it well, because I don't wanna work, you know, 12 hours a day, uh, in order to make the money I need to take care of my family or to- Yeah ... you know, take..." So yeah, I, I mean- A- and that, back to the... Okay, so I hope we answered that well enough, Kyle- Yeah, I think so and thank you so much. Thank you so much for that, that question. Um, and, uh, you know, back to this yes mentality, I told you I'm, I'm of both worlds, so I don't wanna tell a customer no, no matter what. Yeah. I, I really don't. But sometimes I have to say, "Yes, but..." Right? Lucas Underwood: Right. " Cecil Bullard: Yeah, we'd absolutely love to take care of that for you. However," right, "this is the situation." Uh, I always try to, um, to create some, uh, empathy, uh- Yeah ... around what's, what's going on in my world. Yeah. And, and by the way, if I get a guy that comes in who's really pissed off because at 4:00 I can't stop everything and change his oil- This is Lucas Underwood: somebody I want in my shop. Cecil Bullard: Yeah, and is that the guy I wanna work with? Yeah. And the answer is no. N- for me, the answer is- Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: uh, uh, unequivocally no. Lucas Underwood: So, so many of these shop owners, okay, and, and I'm gonna be really blunt here, and I'm not talking about the Institute. You blunt? Wait a minute. Yeah, I know, right? I'm not talking about the Institute when I say what I'm gonna say, okay? Cecil Bullard: Okay. Lucas Underwood: But so many of these shop owners, they go to a class somewhere, and somebody gives them these ideas of what to do. Now, listen, I, I've been this guy. I've been disconnected from the front counter. I've been disconnected from the base, and I go to a class, and this person recommends... And, and I'm gonna tell you, why do you think coaches have got such a bad name? There's, there is a coach that, that if you go on TikTok and search his name, it's technicians cussing him. Like, every TikTok video is people just cussing this guy out, right? And it, it's, it's that they have become so disconnected from what it's like to do the job. Now listen- I think what happens is, is that owner has been struggling for a long time. I've told you about this in my personal life before, that I spent so many years fighting and just climbing and trying to get things right and dealing with the stress and the upset client and all the things, that the minute somebody was willing to walk in that front door and take that pressure off of me, I'm like, "Here you go. It's yours. Take it. Do whatever you want with it. I don't care." Right? Cecil Bullard: Like- Well, would you... I mean, if you're gonna listen to someone- Yeah ... give you advice, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Um, uh, you know, uh, am I going to do some research on that person or that company- Lucas Underwood: Absolutely ... Cecil Bullard: and, and find out- Lucas Underwood: Absolutely ... Cecil Bullard: you know, you know, what their clients are, are saying and, and, you know, where did that person get his education? You know- For sure ... what, what's the, where's the- Lucas Underwood: What's Cecil Bullard: their experience? Uh, as they said in What Are the Bona Fides, right? You know- Yeah ... um, uh, in, in whatever movie- Right ... I can't remember the title to, but, um, i- or are, are you just, uh... At one of our events, and again, I'm gonna be brutal but not name their name. Lucas Underwood: Right. Cecil Bullard: You know, last year, um, chose speakers based on the title of their thing. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And, and they got a- Never Lucas Underwood: actually inspected the class or anything. Cecil Bullard: They got a lot of complaints. Uh, uh- Yeah ... and I heard a lot of feedback from people saying, "Wow, I, you know, in 20 minutes I walked out of that class." Yeah. And, and so do you wanna ha- I, I'm not saying we don't wanna have new people in the industry, 'cause we do. We wanna bring new people in, but do you wanna have people that, that have no bona fides, no, no qualifications? Just, they're just basically- Well- The, the thing I hate about the internet is they're able to say, "I'm the expert on this," and all of a sudden- Exactly everybody believes they're the expert on this- 100%. Lucas Underwood: 100% ... Cecil Bullard: even though they don't have the experience. They don't- Well- ... have the, the basic knowledge to really- E- ... be the expert. Lucas Underwood: Here's my beef though, right, is like they, they can come in and say whatever they want and, and it's, it's like a lot of what's being taught in the industry right now has consequences that, that we're not paying for yet. And I believe there were a lot of things taught over the past however many years that we're paying for the consequences right now, right? Like, there's a lot of things that we're paying for that were done years ago, and this is just how the industry works, and now we're paying the price for it. We don't have any techs, and all of these problems and all this stuff's coming up, right? And so when I... I guess what I was saying about, like, they're teaching these things, but they've never been on that side of the counter. And so it's like the shop owner comes back and says, "Hey guys, we're gonna start doing this." Well, let me ask you, Mr. Shop Owner, how many years has it been since you've sat on that front counter? How many years has it been since you were the one getting the butt chewing because you did something that was shady or was... Right? Like, have you disconnected yourself from the, the experience? Have you disconnected yourself from the consumer, the advisor, the technician? So I'm gonna- Because many of the guys we teach- Cecil Bullard: Yeah Lucas Underwood: were technicians, they were advisors. And- Cecil Bullard: Yeah, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna kick you in the teeth here. Lucas Underwood: Okay. I like it. Do it. Cecil Bullard: Just because you sat on the front c- on the front counter- Lucas Underwood: Mm-hmm ... Cecil Bullard: doesn't mean that you learned anything. Lucas Underwood: Of course. Cecil Bullard: So, so I think, um, like having a technician who becomes a service advisor, I would rather have a service advisor who was never a technician. Yeah, I- And I know a lot of shop owners are gonna go, "Man, you're crazy, Cecil." But there's bad habits that you learn as a tech- Yes, absolutely ... that are great habits when you're a tech, but when you're a salesperson, service advisor- They're terrible ... they're not good habits, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And, and so that's one thing. One thing is, okay, so you did it for 20 years. So what, right? And, and I know, you know, that's some of my bona fides. I used... You know, I- Yeah ... I did this. This is... I've, I've, I've run business, been successful, et cetera. I, I believe I've learned a lot of things that, that maybe many shop owners don't really know and understand. Here's, here's the other part of this. There are things that need to be taught to a tech that a service advisor should not be taught. Yeah. There are things that a service advisor needs to know that a tech shouldn't know, and, and there are things that a manager needs to know that are different than a service advisor, and there are things that an owner needs to know that are a, a lot different, and not all of those will, you will learn by being on the counter or by running the business, right? For Lucas Underwood: sure. Cecil Bullard: And, and listen- We... I've got guys that has, have been doing this for 30 years. I see them all the time. They come up and they're like, "Yes, I've been, I've had a shop for 30 years" and, and their business is worth $150,000 all in. And they, and they have no money. Right? A- and but they've been working at this for 30 years. Lucas Underwood: We've always done it this way. Yeah. But, but here's my point, though, is, is where I'm going with this is a little bit different. Where I'm going with this is it's been so long since you've sat on that front counter, and your policies and procedures are causing problems for the front counter that you don't even see. Cecil Bullard: I, I cannot use my policies and procedures when I was running a shop 15 years ago for a shop today. Yeah. Exactly. Lucas Underwood: Um- Cecil Bullard: Exactly ... and, and we don't teach that, you know? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: It might be a good place for you to start, because you can see what a policy and procedure should, should look like. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: But to take my policy, even my sche- the way I scheduled- Lucas Underwood: Yeah, Cecil Bullard: completely different um, uh, today, I think it's a bit different, right? I, i- it has to be modified. But- And that, another thing you want your coach to be is somewhat flexible on certain things, because- Yeah ... if they're not, they're gonna teach you what they learned 25 years ago, right? And- Well, Lucas Underwood: I, I mean, I guess my point in that, though, is let, let's, let's go back to the example given, okay? Of, hey, we're gonna have this situation where we bring this car in, and they've got a coupon, so we just wanna get the car in to convert it into a car that we can turn into a higher ARO, right? Now, I've got an advisor who's at the end of the day. Yeah. They're trying to make all of their telephone calls, they're trying to update all of their clients, they're trying to get everything cleaned up. Cecil Bullard: Once finished the 15 tickets that are going on- Exactly ... they get the money in the bank, et cetera. Lucas Underwood: Trying to make sure- Right ... the shop looks good, trying to get everybody wound down. They're, they're in the end of the day. They're phasing it out. They're getting ready to bookend the day. Plan tomorrow, right? Cecil Bullard: Right. Lucas Underwood: And now I've got a technician who's in the middle of a job, he's got an hour left, and I'm going back and I'm saying, "Hey, I need you to stop what you're doing. I need you to inspect this car. I need you to do an oil change right now. I need you to pull this thing in right now." And plus you're asking the advisor to go to that client, write an estimate for something simple, something that needs to be dealt with right now. It's a big deal to get the car to stay, and now I'm arranging a ride for this person, right? So the- Now you wanna talk about disgruntled, think about how that disrupts every single person in the shop's day. I've disrupted a porter, I've disrupted an advisor, I've disrupted a client, I've disrupted a technician. Cecil Bullard: I've disrupted my profits. Yes. I've disrupted my, my workflow. Lucas Underwood: Absolutely. Cecil Bullard: You know, one of the biggest, one of the biggest expenses in the automotive industry, the biggest cost and, and where we're losing the most money is that we do not have good workflow. Yeah. So the productivity issue, and we have a... Because of that we have a lot of techs complaining 'cause they can't get paid. If they're on flat rate and we don't have productivity, and it is the fault of the business because of our flow, um, then they got a, they got a legitimate complaint, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And, and what we're doing, I have a class called Stack the Deck, and what we're doing is stacking the deck against us. Yeah. We're not stacking it in our favor, Lucas Underwood: right? Right. Cecil Bullard: And so we're doing... By, by bringing that car in at the, at the last minute, we're doing everyone a disservice. Everybody. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: The, the client, the car, the service advisor, the tech that's gonna have to be pulled off, and, and we're creating kind of hatt- havoc and, and bad attitudes. Lucas Underwood: Chaos. Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And, and if we create, you know, bad attitude and havoc in our, and chaos in our business, then what are our results gonna be? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Okay? Exactly. And you can beat guys only so long. You know, you, you can- Yeah ... be a forceful manager and, and use the whip or the, you know, the, the prod or whatever only so long when guys say, "Uh, no more of this." It is not a long-term strategy for running a good business that's gonna last long-term and be profitable long-term. It's just not a good strategy. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Yeah. I think you're exactly right, and, and I think that that's where it comes back to me that, that if I build a workflow That is prioritizing profit over the car count, right? Because I, I don't believe in the, the high car count numbers. I- now let me tell you something. I, I had an epiphany a few years back because I was in three bays. You've seen the shop. Cecil Bullard: Mm-hmm. Lucas Underwood: I was in three bays, and it didn't take a lot- With Cecil Bullard: no ceiling. I mean, nine feet- Yeah ... or eight and a half feet or whatever. Yep. Yeah. Lucas Underwood: It didn't take that much to fill that shop, and it didn't take that much to pay that shop's bills. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: And then you've seen the new shop, and I, I, I'm, I don't even have to tell you, it takes a lot to pay its bills, right? Cecil Bullard: Yes, sir. Lucas Underwood: And so I have a whole new appreciation for people who try and drive car count. Like I get it. I get it. Cecil Bullard: I had a... In the, in the class, I had a, a guy come up and he's like, "Hey, I'm just, I'm just me, and, uh, what should I do now?" And I'm like, "Well, first of all, I, I don't know enough information." Yeah. "But second of all, when it's just you in one bay, you're gonna have the least expense, but you're gonna make the most money." It's gonna be hard because, you know, you gotta be the service advisor. You gotta, you know, when you've gotta answer the phone- Yeah ... you have Lucas Underwood: to stop what you're doing- Maybe you can stack Cecil Bullard: that bank account full like that ... blah, blah, blah. But you, you can. Yeah. I also have to... Kent made a comment that, um, it requires you to hold the stick. Somebody has to hold the stick. Yeah. And my answer is, "It doesn't require me to hold the stick. It requires the stick to be held- Yeah ... and held by somebody that, that knows what, what they're holding and knows what they need to do, right?" Yeah. Flying a plane, I don't wanna put my, you know, uh, 13-year-old grandson flying a plane. He's no experience. I put the stick in his hand, we're probably in trouble. You know, I want, I want a pilot, I want Dutch at the- Lucas Underwood: Exactly ... Cecil Bullard: you know, behind the wheel, right? Lucas Underwood: Well, you know, it's funny you say that because I was getting ready to bring him up. I, I was talking to him years ago. I was really frustrated about the way the shop was going, and he said, "Son, let me tell you something" He said, "When I worked for the airline," he said, "it does not matter who flies that plane or who does what on that plane." He said, "Because I was the left seat captain, that was my job." He said, "I could let anybody I wanted fly the plane. For God's sakes, I could let a passenger fly it." Cecil Bullard: Yeah, but he- "But I Lucas Underwood: could give them- Cecil Bullard: But he's responsible ultimately for what happens on that plane ... Lucas Underwood: I could give them all the authority in the world- Yeah to fly the plane, but ultimately it was still my responsibility." Good luck. And I said, "What does that have to do with me?" He said, "You're letting a bunch of bimbos fly your plane." Yeah. Cecil Bullard: People who don't know. Lucas Underwood: Like- Cecil Bullard: That's like, that's like- You know? It's like- ... going to coaching and, and going to classes- Yeah with people who, who have a nice internet presence who don't really have the, the experience or the knowledge to really help you out. Lucas Underwood: Yeah, 100%. Cecil Bullard: You know? And, and, and- I, I see these, some of these new coaches come on and they say things and I'm like, "Well, that sounds really pretty, but-" Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: you know, it i- i- it's not meaningful or impactful. It just sounds pretty. Lucas Underwood: Right. Okay, we've got a question here. Um, Steve from Wasp Automotive: "My question is how do you decide when adding capacity, another tech, actually helps profit versus creating more chaos?" Been there, done that. It's all in the numbers. It's all in your financials. Ha- I, what do you say, Cecil? What Cecil Bullard: do you- I think, um, I think you look at your business and you say to yourself, uh, you know, like, "I've got three techs. I have one service advisor. I'm probably... My flow is now starting to get affected because one service advisor, three techs." Lucas Underwood: That's Cecil Bullard: for sure. Uh, and 11, 12 cars a day, maybe 15 if you're running a lower ARO model, and that service advisor can't talk to all those people, answer all those phones, deal with everything that's happening and make that happen. So you say to yourself- Yeah ... "Okay, um, I'm gonna add a fourth, uh, uh, tech," before you really have your service advisor stuff really set up. So, you know, I'm, if I'm adding a fourth tech, I'm, I'm certainly probably at that point adding a second service advisor. And if you're, if you're willing, if you have your systems and processes down and your shop is efficient, the, if you have a, a decent ARO, if you, if you know your inspection process and your sales process is good, then let's add a tech. But if you're, if you're adding a tech because you feel like we're, we're stacked too deep and I can't get the work out, then y- y- Yeah ... it's not the tech you need, it's the process you need. Lucas Underwood: So- Right? ... w- what I do in my shop, okay, let me give you a rundown of how I do my daily planning, my weekly planning. Yeah. Is I'm monitoring how much work we have in the shop at any given time. So I know how many hours and I know how many dollars I have in the shop, and I'm saying, "Okay, I know what my typical sales per build hour are, and does that line up with the financial model we've put in place for the shop?" And so if I'm consistently at that number, I can take my hours and I can say, my technicians should be able to turn eight hours a day. There's gonna be days they're a little bit less, there's gonna be days they're a little bit more, but if I have X number of hours and it gives me a runway, because I view this like my runway, right? Like, how far can I go? And I run this shop somewhere between five and seven days out, is, is typically where it falls, right? Yeah. I wanna have between new appointments coming in, right, because I know my average hours per repair order, new appointments coming in versus the work that I have here right now. How much work would that give me, right? And a lot of guys come back and say, "How could you judge what a new appointment's gonna be?" Because it's my average hours per repair order. That's what we always run. It doesn't go up and down hours. It goes up and down five, 10, 15 minutes. It goes up, down .1, .2. It's not a huge swing. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: And so now I'm looking at the shop and I'm saying, "Okay- If that is the case and I have this much work and I'm billing this much, is the work getting done? No, it's not. Okay, well now I have an efficiency problem in the shop. Cecil Bullard: Maybe. Maybe- Okay, the work... Go ahead. Maybe it's an efficiency problem in the shop. Maybe it's a, I have too many clients and I need another tech, right? So- Lucas Underwood: Well, I guess, I guess what I'm saying though is if, if I'm in that situation, right? So if I've got that number and my number is, is each tech should be able to do eight hours a day, and I am not moving that number through the shop, and I go and I look and I find out, hey, I got four hours per day per tech, that's an efficiency problem. And by the way, that's a- Adding another tech Cecil Bullard: will not fix that problem don't hire another tech. Yeah, because now you're gonna have- Unless you- Now you're gonna have five guys doing three hours- Doing four hours a day ... or whatever. So yeah. And, and all the marketing, all the money you've spent on that and everything else- Yep ... is just gonna go by the Lucas Underwood: wayside. 100%. So- But I'm gonna maximize what I have, I guess is my point. I'm, I'm, I, it, it's ran by the numbers. There's a formula. I Cecil Bullard: think, I think if you're smart, you're always maximizing what you have. And so- Yeah ... um, you know, you're, the question that I ask every day is, is why not, right? W- why- Yeah ... aren't we? Why, why, why isn't the institute growing faster? Why are we not, uh, signing up more people? Why are we, you know, whatever, whatever it is. Because the answer to that question is the answer I need to, in order to really move my head- Yeah ... right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Sure. And, and so if you're, if you're saying, you know, I've got, um, six hours of productivity out of my s- out of my techs- And now I'm gonna hire another tech because I have too many cars. Well, m- maybe your price isn't high enough to, you know- Yeah ... maybe your price needs to be a little higher. Uh, so th- that's a way that you might manage car count. So we're booked three weeks out. Well, booked three weeks out is, is not okay, and what, what often happens is I, I have customers come in today, and they were scheduled for whatever, and then we found $4,000 worth of stuff they need, and they wanna buy it- Get bumped I said, "I can't, I can't do it today." Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: So they get bumped a week and a half out, two weeks out. And then the other problem is if I'm, if I'm scheduling that way, and, and I have new people that are, that I'm... They don't know who I am. Yeah. So they're calling for a first time. I need to get those people in either today or tomorrow. Yeah. I cannot- If you wanna retain that ... schedule those people. Yeah. Otherwise, that money I spent is wasted money. Yeah. And, and so, you know, there, again, there's these balancing and tipping points in your business that if you really understand the business and you're watching the numbers as, as Ken says, you know, if you know where you're going and you're, you know, you got s- your hand on the stick, and you got the data that you need- Yeah then all of a sudden, I'm making better decisions, and so I know what to do when I need to do it. And then- For sure. Lucas Underwood: Absolutely ... I Cecil Bullard: think, I think everybody should have mentors or coaches. Uh, y- you know, mentors, uh, uh, many of... Some of those are paid because you, that's what you hired them for. Yeah. And they might be your coach, and some of those are not. I mean, you know, I'll, I'll call you occasionally for something and say, "Hey, Lucas, what do you think about this?" Because- For sure ... frankly, I look at you in s- some areas as that guy where I can call you and get some good information. Right. Um, and, a- a- I just think we have so many people in our industry that they just don't know enough about the business and how- Yeah the business runs to make the best decisions, and so they keep running into the wall. Lucas Underwood: They were really good at fixing cars, and they were really good at maybe selling service. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: But they weren't good at running the business that fixes cars and sells service. Cecil Bullard: Well, Lucas Underwood: how many- There's a d- there's a difference. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And then, you know, how, how about how do I manage these people? I mean, I can't tell you how many times I've heard, "Well, my guys won't do good inspections," or, "They won't take-" "... 20 pictures of the car," or whatever. Ah. And, and, and I'm, I'm like, part of me is, is flabbergasted, right? Yeah. Part of me is like, how, how do you have people that won't do what you need them to do, and you keep writing them a check every, every week- Yeah right, or every two weeks? And, and then part of me is, is angry, like- Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: are you, are you really that dumb that you, you can't figure this out, and, and manage people, and make sure that you're getting, you know, what you need out of your staff? And, and so I, the... I'm always two people in my head, you know? I'm just always. But they keep doing the same thing over and over. Yeah. And they keep thinking they're gonna get different results. Lucas Underwood: You know- Cecil Bullard: It's insanity ... Lucas Underwood: here, here's what stands out to me, because you know I've been working at the other end dealing with- Mm-hmm ... with much younger employees, right? Cecil Bullard: Yep. Lucas Underwood: And I had one a while back come up to me and said, "I really appreciate you holding me accountable." And I said, "What are you talking about?" And they said, "Nobody has ever said to me, 'Why didn't you accomplish this thing?'" And they just acted like I was gonna be upset or was gonna be mad if somebody came and said, "What about?" And they said, "The problem was is I never knew if I was winning or losing. And so I need somebody to tell me I'm doing good or I'm not doing good- Yeah so I understand where I need to go, but that's not happening anywhere else I've been." And see- Cecil Bullard: Well, it doesn't... In most places it does not happen, my friend. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And so- Lucas Underwood: Exactly ... Cecil Bullard: you know, we, we don't have goals. I'll, I'll go into a shop and say, "Well, what are your goals for your techs? How do they win," right? "Well, uh, they do a lot of work and they don't have any comebacks." Well, first of all, not having any comebacks is ridiculous because you can't work on cars without having a comeback. Lucas Underwood: You figure that Cecil Bullard: one out, buddy. Second of all, what's a lot? What's a lot of work, right? I mean- Yeah ... a lot of work is, is 10 hours a day. I mean- Yeah ... uh, people need... If you hold people accountable, if they understand, if you're fair, meaning- Yeah ... they know what their target is, they know what they have to do, and then you hold them accountable, they're very happy. They're happier than they can ever be. Yeah. It's the people that don't have any direction, that don't know if they're winning, you know, every two years, every three years they move to another shop hoping that they can find that thing that they don't have, and the thing that they don't have is goals, targets, accountability, and winning. I mean, those are the things you absolutely have to have to be a happy human being, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: If not, it wears at you and it wears at you until what you do is you go online and you just bitch, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And, and so we got a lot of online complaining going on. Lucas Underwood: Yep. Cecil Bullard: Um- Lucas Underwood: The, the quickest way to a depressing life is unmet expectations. Yeah. And the only human being capable of setting your expectations is you. Is Cecil Bullard: that right? Well, and that's the other thing I think we all... You know, I, I always say, um, managers need to manage, meaning- Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: you know, you... When I was a tech, I kept track of every hour I billed, okay? Now, the reason I was keeping track of every hour I billed was not because I d- I thought my company was gonna not pay me for it. The reason I kept track of every hour was because every day was a competition against yesterday. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: So if I did seven hours yesterday, today I wanna do eight. And, you know, I, I, I'm competing against myself. In, in a way, part of my life has been managing myself because if somebody else- Yeah ... doesn't create the expectations for me, I create the expectations. Lucas Underwood: Amen. Cecil Bullard: Because I need the- The dopamine or whatever that comes from being successful. Lucas Underwood: Amen, Cecil Bullard: buddy. Uh, if not, at the end of the day, you watch me. I'm sitting watching TV doing this because- That's it ... I wasn't successful today, right? I di- I didn't- Yeah ... make anything happen. Lucas Underwood: Kent says, "Complaining can make the problem feel bigger it is to the point it feels insurmountable." Um, I- Cecil Bullard: Yeah, it happens all, all, all the time in this, in this industry ... Lucas Underwood: somebody told me one time that human beings can be in love with their problems. They can make their problems their identity, and so I think that Cecil Bullard: that's- Well, think, think about this. As a technician, I'm a problem solver. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Right? And problems are brought to me all day long, but all of a sudden- Yeah I become a salesperson or I become a manager, sol- creating problems so that I have problems to solve, right? Lucas Underwood: Amen. Cecil Bullard: And, you know, don't get me wrong, you'll... A- as a salesperson you'll have plenty of problems to solve. As a manager you'll have ple- plenty of problems to solve, but we have a lot of people in, in the industry that are creating their own nightmares- Lucas Underwood: Yes Cecil Bullard: and then they're living in them, and then they're complaining about them. Yeah. And, and, and my mind is like, "Okay, fix it." Lucas Underwood: Right? Exactly. Exactly. Cecil Bullard: It might not be easy. It might not be quick, but fix it. Stop doing what you're doing today. Start learning how to do something just a little bit different and, and because you keep going the same way, you keep getting the same thing. Lucas Underwood: That's exactly right. If you continue to do the same thing and expect different results, that is the definition- Is Cecil Bullard: insanity ... of Lucas Underwood: insanity. Cecil Bullard: Yes, sir. Lucas Underwood: Cecil, thank you for being here today. Cecil Bullard: Yes, sir. Well, thank you. I love these things. And- Yes, sir ... uh, thank you for those of you that participated and, uh, and asked questions, and we'll be back again soon I'm sure. Lucas Underwood: That's it. Well, I guess another month and we'll be back Cecil Bullard: here. Another month, and we'll make your head Lucas Underwood: hurt one more time. Another AMA. Yeah. Waiting to hear y'all's questions. Cecil, see you next time, buddy. Cecil Bullard: Love you, brother. Lucas Underwood: Love you, brother.