The Biggest Mistake Shop Owners Make with Josh Coomes and Brian Ramsburg

0:08Nobody is perfect. As long as you're willing to listen and absorb knowledge, then you're an asset. As soon as you have someone that is shut down and like doesn't want to listen to anything, you're now a liability and you're not necessarily worthless, but you're nowhere near as worth to the company as what you think you are. Welcome back to another exciting episode of the Jade Mechanic Podcast.

0:38Um, this time we're coming live from— well, we're not coming live, we're coming from Tools in Hershey, Pennsylvania. We're sitting here in the Hershey Lodge. Um, this place, if you've never been, has the most glorious smell coming through the HVAC system. It kind of smells like chocolate, and everybody is very, um, Uh, happy, uh, summer. The kids are really hyper, uh, they're making a lot of noise down in the lobby, so we had to get away from that.

1:03So, um, we came up here and we're going to record with a really good friend of mine, Joshua Combs, who some people have seen his, um, Auto Shop Therapy channel on YouTube as of recent. I'm a huge fan. Um, I blow up his comments with either, you know, opinions or corrections. Um, and he's brought his technician with me today, uh, Brian, pardon me, I don't know your last name, Brian.

1:25It's Ramsburg. Ramsburg, nice to meet you. So how's it— how you guys feeling today? Honestly, it's been pretty great so far. This is your first event like this? It is, a little out of my comfort zone. Josh, it kind of drug me from North Carolina up here. Yeah, I said no choice, you got to go. Yeah, and so far it's been great.

1:41But once you're here, you're liking this? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, because Josh and I met last year for the first time and at Tools. And I don't know, we just clicked, right? And we got talking about like, um, not mud pies, uh, whoopie pies. Whoopie pies. And then he brought me some whoopie pies. And because we were in Lancaster, right, heart of the Amish, and, and, uh, Josh kind of had a little more insight into that than I did.

2:07So I was fascinated by it. And then as we've come away from that, we're still probably talking probably every week about his shop and my job, because I don't own a shop. And we just started sharing. And then when he came out with his YouTube channel, he shared a bunch more, right? And then of course, me being the guy that never keeps my mouth shut, I'm sounding off in it all the time.

2:28And he's talking to me about what's going on in the shop and what you're facing and what he's facing and different diagnostic challenges and processes and stuff like that. So kind of share with me, you know, because we know Josh's kind of backstory a little bit and we'll touch on that too, but kind of share your, just a condensed, version of you in the industry and how you got there and how you wound up here?

2:50Well, honestly, it's kind of been a family trade on my side. I've been doing it for a little over 18 years now, uh, professionally. It's kind of one of those— you grow up young, you wind up taking everything apart and getting in trouble for it, so eventually you got to learn how to put it back together, right? Right. And how old are you now?

3:07Just turned 39. Geez, you look good for 39. Really? Like, you don't look all— how did I look at 39? Well, I was still losing my hair and I was like fat. I'm still fat. So you're doing okay. You don't look all worn down. So that's good. That's what I mean when I say you're looking well. Like, you don't look like you've had 39 years in the trenches.

3:27So that's good. Luckily, it hasn't beat me up too bad. Yeah. Now, what does— when you decided you kind of wanted to do this for a career, what did that trajectory look like? Did you Was it— did you know when you got in, you kind of had a feeling of what it was going to be like? Or did you get a bunch of big surprises when you started working for different people?

3:49So it was one of those. It's kind of been a family occupation. My dad, my grandfather, the whole nine all the way through the years. So I kind of had a good inclination what it was going to be like to a degree, just spending time in the shop as is. Now, were they shop owners or did they work for other people as techs?

4:07A little bit of both. Okay. All right. Uh, in the end, we realized it was a lot easier to work for someone else than try to do it on your own. Hopefully. Yeah. Usually. Yeah. Oh, and that's, that's funny because I don't mean it's funny, like funny, haha, but it's, um, there's a lot of people that have done that, you know what I mean?

4:26That they had a business and they decided, I'm not running the shop too, it's not worth it, right? Josh and I have talked about that. And then they, they go back and get themselves a job. And, and because you and I have talked lots, and we, we, we could show you so many examples of shop owners that all they did was buy themselves a job.

4:45So when we talk about that, I think maybe, is that what your parent, your, your grandfather and father just kind of ever did, was buy themselves a— like, have a business but don't really have the— what's the, what's the word I'm thinking of, Josh? Like, the, the They own a job. Yeah, they own a job and not a shop. Yeah, profits don't come along with the— they were good with what they were working on, they weren't really good with people.

5:09Yeah, that's tough too, eh? Yeah, I share that. Let's— when he talks about me and he's like, um, you know, everybody, because they'll ask me like, well, why don't— why aren't you a shop owner? Well, and I'll say because I'm 50 and I don't think I have enough time left. But the reality is, is like, I struggle with listening to too many of people's concerns or complaints in one day.

5:31I have like, I think I could do it from about 8 to 8:21. And then I would be filled up with like my give a damn. And it's not that I don't care. It's just like, I would just want to get— hand me the keys. Don't wait. Give me a little bit of an idea about what it's here for. And then I will have somebody that's better at talking to you call you.

5:55That's how I approach it, right? So I've always been, if I was to start my own shop, who would I hire to do that? Because like, it's, it's as hard a job as, as the technician role, I think, 100%. Um, service writers are pivotal for actually success in this. And I keep, sometimes I beat on them really hard. Josh has heard me, but other times, like, If you don't have it that they're doing what they're supposed to be doing, it does not matter how effective a technician any of us are.

6:30You're not going to make any money. And I think that's what a lot of the people that have started shops don't narrow that down and they don't realize it, right? So is what happened, like you said, they just weren't good with dealing with people. Like, give me kind of build on that. What do you mean by that? Well, um, I guess the best way to put it is they were really good with machines and mechanical apparatus.

6:57Uh, their active listening wasn't that great. Okay. So just maybe similar to what you deal with, someone starts talking, you lose interest, and you just kind of zone out. And when that happens, you tend to lose a lot of those critical details that you really needed. And Josh, you're— when I watch you, you're better at that than a lot of other mechanics I've known that step into that role of laying out what the customer's here for and all that kind of stuff.

7:24Like, I can tell when I watch you, you're genuinely interested and empathetic to what it is that they're concerned about. You know what I mean? And I'm not like— I've just— there's something wired in my head that it's just strictly like business. And I What gives you that power or how did you learn that? So my driving force, so I had a shop years ago, right?

7:47So I grew up, I went to UTI in '99, worked for Volkswagen until like '07, started my own shop in '06, like moonlighting, right? And then the reason I started the shop was not to make more money. I guess it was really because I was tired of service advisors taking advantage of the customers. Absolutely selling things that weren't needed. Yeah, overcharging on time on purpose, like, because they get, you know, spiffs on everything, right?

8:15And for me, the driving force was customer experience and fixing the cars right. So like, I'm empathetic to that. I want their car fixed, just like Brian Pollock says, just fix the effing car. Yeah, right. And it's like, yeah, we can do that. And I genuinely care about people regardless if they're my customer or not. If I get a customer that I know is not going to be a good fit for them, if I have the time, which usually I spend too much time on the phone with them, even if they're not going to come in here and I don't want them in my shop, I still want to see them get their car fixed

8:45or their problem solved. Yeah. So yeah, it's a fault of mine to probably care too much about people that aren't lining my pockets, but I still want them to get fixed, right? And that helps the— that helps the image of the industry, right? Because even if you're politely telling them like we're not the shop for what you're driving. They go away going, wow, that's the first time somebody's talked to me in that way of level of explanation and level of professionalism and all that kind of stuff.

9:13And maybe, you know, they get a car that you're more suited to work on brand-wise, age-wise, whatever they might need. Then you become the better fit for them, right? But at the time, we just can't, you know, let's throw something like your BMW that was on the hoist, your project car. Like if that came in as a customer's car, you probably wouldn't touch it, would you?

9:32No. Yeah. No. Right? But that same customer that has that car, maybe eventually after you've been able to help them, they bring you something in the more modern realm that you would want to have in your shop, right? And you're pretty particular. Like you were talking about even like your Chevy truck that you were doing over— well, you're fixing it up to sell or to keep or whatever you're trying to do.

9:53You were talking in the one video how like if that was to come in as a customer's, you wouldn't touch it either. But yet it's in pretty good shape, isn't it? Yeah. And it's like, and I had that conversation, somebody wanted to do brakes on a '97 Chevy truck. And I'm like, I don't want to bring that in the shop. And it's just brakes, right?

10:10Who cares, right? It's easy money. And, but I told them, I said, you need to find a shop that will, I want you to form a relationship with the shop that you're in that can take care of this car from soup to nuts, as Keith Perkins would say. And That's more important to me to have a relationship with your mechanic. And, uh, I don't want— when somebody talks about me, I don't want someone to say, well, take it over here, when they're asking for a referral.

10:34Like, take it over here, this is where I take my car. It's like, no, my mechanic is All Okay Auto Repair. Yeah, there's a, there's a difference in those 2 things. And I want them to form that relationship with somebody else. And if they don't want that and they're just looking for a guy to fix this and fix that and fix that, that's completely transactional.

10:50It's not the client that I want. Yeah, and it's like, so it's better in your best interest, or if that's what you want, that's fine. It's not what I want. And see, you and I know there's lots of shops out there that would preach that if it's just a brake job, it doesn't matter what it— bring it in, get it on the hoist, get it apart, get your parts ordered.

11:09But that same car may turn around and come back in next month, 3 months later, say, because they feel like all of a sudden, I really liked how you handled my brakes, but now this thing is not running right, or I, you know, I walk away for 3 days on my '97 anything and the battery goes dead. And you all of a sudden— those shops will go, we kind of have a rule, you know, like, uh, 10 years or older on diag, we don't touch it.

11:33And all of a sudden that customer's like— because they don't understand the difference between a '97 and a 2027, so they think it can't be all that hard. And then they go, you just seemed like you were the greatest thing since sliced bread last month, and now you're telling me to kick rocks. Like, that's where that, that balancing act comes in, right?

11:50Because I sit there and see, if I was strictly money motivated as a technician and you told me that, like, I hung up the phone on a '97 Chevy brake job, I'd be like, what, are you crazy? But then if you turned around like I was in his shoes working for you and you brought in a '97 for some weird misfire or check engine light that won't go away after it's been— I'm going to be like, Josh, What are we doing here?

12:13Like, we're not a restoration shop. So that's the struggle, right, of always just trying to figure out, like, how do we make enough profit at the end of the month or week, day, whatever? How do we service the community, right? And how do we not alienate certain people that are going to go and say, oh, they don't want to touch anything over a certain age?

12:30So we did, you know, there's a few— we had just one recently, we brought in an '89 Chevy truck for AC work. Yeah. And it's he was, uh, expecting it to be a bad evaporator because another shop told him that. And it's like, where's the evidence that the evaporator is bad? Now I already ordered one pre— I had it sitting on the shelf because it was in stock.

12:48So when we did our, our evaluation, then he got charged for it. If it had— if it needed one, we have it. Yeah, we couldn't find it. The only thing we found was a leak in the high side line. Well, he called me, um, you know, that, that car did not get a DVI. I'm just being honest, right? Just like the channel, it did not get a DVI.

13:03Fixed their main concern. Well, he, he sent a message. It lasted a week and it's dead. It's flat again. Now when we got it done, it's short cycling. It's got the right amount of refrigerant in it, right? And it's like, so now I have to get into an— a real AC problem that's short cycling. And, you know, like, I'm trying to up my game with superheat and subcooling and all these other things, like, you know, because now we're trying to be the best, you know.

13:27And it's, well, I'm not the best shot for this, and this is why I didn't want to work on these things. And it's like, so now I'm I'm kind of opening a can of worms. Now we did it before. We had an AC problem on an old Chevy Caprice. It was a donk car, right? I'm like, this is not my client. It's not the car that I want to work on.

13:43And we had very clear-cut expectations. It was, uh, it wasn't an AC car. Yeah, it was an AC car. And the driver inside the PCM was bad. It wasn't turning the compressor on. Brian freaking superstar nailed the diag right off the bat. And it's like, we get the thing done. It was missing half the dash vents and all kinds of other stuff in it.

14:02Now it was blowing cold now. And then he called back a week later and talked to the service writer. He's like, can he look at this or that? And right away, like, the service advisor knows the rules. Yeah. And said, he told you that we're only fixing this AC problem. We're not touching this car again. No, DVI, I don't care. You're not.

14:19I got your AC working that no one else would fix. Right. So it's like— and he said, well, that's valid. He told me he wouldn't do that. There you go. So clear expectations. But again, it's like it's the same thing you just said. Well, he fixed this and now I'm like, my car's not good enough? Yeah, yes it is, right? So, but you know, tread lightly when you talk to them about their piece of junk car.

14:42But you know, it's just like now we're dealing with an '89 that we're gonna have to get into probably. And what do you really enjoy? Like, if he could book just one type of work over and over again for you, what do you really enjoy or what would you most want to be working on? Well, that's probably one of the oddities for me.

15:00Um, I enjoy a plethora of everything. Okay. Um, if I want to do one job on repetition, I'd get a factory job. I'd go sit in a cubicle somewhere. I would rather see 20 different cars, 20 different lines, 20 different problems. Really? Uh, yes, I'm not going to be the quickest tech on all 20 lines all the way across the board, but it's going to expand my knowledge drastically.

15:25Making me ultimately more valuable. Sorry to interrupt, but I have to share something really quick with everybody. As a technician, I know how much time can be wasted running back and forth between the bay and the front desk. It's a hassle, isn't it? That's where the TechMetric mobile app comes in. It's a tool that makes life easier for techs and better for customers.

15:42With the power of the DVI right at your fingertips, the TechMetric mobile app lets you document and share inspections in real time. Snap photos, upload videos, and send clear transparent updates directly to your customers, all without leaving the bay. It's fast, professional, and a game-changer for building trust. Here's the best part: customers can see exactly what their vehicle needs, making it easier for them to approve work and feel confident in your recommendations.

16:07You're not just fixing cars; you're delivering clarity and earning loyalty, one inspection at a time. So, if you're ready to supercharge your shop's efficiency and make every job smoother, it's time to check out the TechMetric mobile app. Measure up by every measure with TechMetric. Hit up the show link below for all the information you'll need. See, that's an unusual answer, eh? Because like, if you were to ask me, and Josh knows me, it'd be like, well, you could give me diag on just about anything as long as it didn't involve having to then go in and diag AC, because I don't like air conditioning from the sense that I'm not good at it.

16:38And then no European cars, just domestic stuff like America. Like, give me that kind of crap. And if it's not running right or check engine light, that's what all I really wanted to do. Like, I don't want to I don't want to go looking for wind noises, water leaks, squeaks and rattles. I don't want to go looking for, you know, your AM/FM, Bluetooth, blah, blah.

16:57Like, like, you know, who cares? Like, put your phone in, put your earbuds in there, it's fixed for you. Have a nice day. Like, that's how my brain works from a simplistic situation of— there are other stuff that can really be legit concerns for customers. I just don't get all up in it because I'm just like, yeah, you're— you're— it drives well, drives good, it's safe.

17:17I wouldn't— my own, I wouldn't spend a ton of time. Like my Jeep, I lent my Jeep to Christie and Benji yesterday. And they're going to hear this and they'll be laughing. 2 months ago, intermittently would throw an ABS and a traction control light on the dash. And you cycle the key and it would go away. And I never scanned it until last week.

17:36And when I scanned it, looking at the Jeep just to set up my Lund Launch Tool, there was no code in there for ABS or traction control. No big deal. Drove it all the way down here yesterday. No, excuse me, Wednesday. Um, give it to Benji and Christy. They've got it by morning. They'd break the damn thing. Now it's got a code in it.

17:55So when I get done recording today, I'll go out and, uh, Braxton and I are gonna film a video showing the new launch tool and at least finally know what code's in my Jeep for an ABS. But it's like other people, you know, they're like, they would be immediately, okay, I gotta drive in and get that fixed, right? And me, not just because I'm a technician that I panic, but I'm like, I know that it's like, this thing still starts, drives great.

18:20I can safely drive it back home another 600 miles. I'm not stressing, you know? And that's where I just, when I wanna be a technician, I wanna do the, what sounds like the really essential things. And that's why I've never been good at getting into too many of the other things that, you know, people want addressed or fixed. So that's another reason why I've never really been— why don't I jump into shop ownership realm is because that would be— I think I would specialize myself so far into like obscurity that nobody would know who I was or bring me anything.

18:50So, um, what about you? Like in a perfect world then, what do you want to see coming into your shop? Um, because you have a little— you have a European background, like you want to work on them, you like working on them. I I don't like working on them. Oh no, not at all. So I do have a European background, but I left Volkswagen in '07, right?

19:10So there's like been 3 platforms now that there's some familiarity. Like I can still get into my Autel and or my VCDS, right? And I can still go into measuring value blocks that are drilled into my brain and I can pull those same measuring value blocks up, know that I can force readiness monitors and that kind of stuff. So that's nice. But I told when I hired Brian, Brian had a lot of Euro background.

19:32And I told him, I said, we can continue doing Euro, it doesn't matter to me, but don't expect me to put air in the tires. Don't expect me to drive it. I don't want to change the oil. I don't want to touch any more European cars. Yeah, I'm just so over it. Um, it's— everything's complicated, right? It's like, you know, I just hate not having dipsticks.

19:49Like, dude, come on, man. It's, you know, yeah, it's different. I'm not saying it's better, but they break a whole lot more often and there's a lot more stuff to break. Yeah. And You know, I don't want to deal with the clientele a lot of times either, right? So just like what Mike Allen said before, if you're a 3rd or 4th owner, you're a car— European car owner, you're probably not in the right shop, right?

20:11Because I don't want to work on it. And I'm just, you know, we had Jags come in with, you know, the supercharged motors with needs like $5,000 worth of coolant repairs. And the first time they ever owned a European car. And it's like, yeah, I'll see you in a couple more months with another couple thousand dollars worth of repairs needed. And that's a hard conversation.

20:30I don't really want to get into that, right? So it's like, I'd much rather work on the more normal stuff. And it's not that— I mean, I don't mind doing some of the hard diag stuff because like I want to work my brain and get those things. But a lot of times what will happen is that, yeah, we charge for diag for sure.

20:50And what we normally do is like we'll get a baseline and then that'll get us into like further testing, and then the cost to move forward once we have a baseline. But then we don't know when it's— the schedule's already built out 5 days. We don't know that the next check engine light or next ABS concern. So now the shop gets backed up with 3 hard diag at once, and now the shop's not making any money until the stuff's closed out.

21:13Yeah, we charge for it, and we have an elevated labor rate for diag and that kind of stuff, but it's still for like productivity and stuff. That's where it gets kind of jammed up. So I mean, we, we balance that out as much as we can with the schedule, but it still can still bite us, you know. And then when you get stuck on one, it, you know, sets you back 3 days, and then the next one's already here, and it's like, okay, you know.

21:36So I mean, some people realize that. Like now, if we get like an electrical problem that's already calling for the schedule, I'm going to tell them it's 2 weeks out because I want to make sure that all the other stuff I have in the shop's gone. So if I had my choice, I would love to do like tires and brakes. I know a lot of independent shops don't want to get into tires, but I'm telling you right now, tires are highest gross profit per hour job that you are doing in your shop.

21:58Yeah, if you're doing them right. And it's like, you don't need a crazy expense. You don't need $75,000 worth of tire equipment to do it. Yeah, you can, but, um, so I would like to do the low-hanging fruit, the gross profit stuff. At the same time, not— people need their other cars fixed that are broken, and a lot of other shops, they're not getting into it.

22:17I've just interviewed a guy, um, who's coming in on Monday for a working interview. And he's been at a shop for 3 years now, and he didn't know that you could test for a catalytic converter. He just automatically assumed a P0420, P0430 fault, it needs a cat. And it's like, dude, there's some— like, you have to do some basic level testing. It only takes a few minutes with a scan tool, but maybe you might have to smoke an exhaust, right?

22:38But like, it's just there are shops still out there that I couldn't believe it because I'm like, I'm, you know, I don't believe it that— yeah, fault, fault code, part number. And they were like Oh my gosh, you know. And so those, those cars still need to get fixed. Yeah. Now what— so what's the challenges then when you see working in the shop?

22:58Because do you think sometimes like he turns away a job that you would have really enjoyed getting your teeth into, or do you kind of trust him to, to pick the right decisions? Honestly, we've had it both ways. Um, it's not uncommon for me to be in the office in between jobs or waiting for him to hopefully finish up with a customer sooner than later.

23:22We've had some that kind of slipped through, things that I've dealt with in the past. Okay. And you're used to kind of pattern failures, but it's not quite the right customer for our shop given our current dynamic. When it's just me and him, having the ability to bring in something as simple as a Jag or a Land Rover with cooling issues, very easy to do if you know what you're working with, right?

23:45But we also know that we're always one day away, one broken hose from that car is now in bay for 2, 3 days. Yeah. So while it's easy, low-hanging fruit for me, he's looking more towards the tires, the brakes, things of that nature. Yeah. And the liability, like you and I talked about it, those high-end cars, right? Like, well, even we can take the, we can take the the high-end car away.

24:09Brian Pollock just shared with me yesterday a situation that they had in their shop. And the customer came in with a Silverado transmission problem, right? Shocking. I mean, how do they not? And the guy was red flags right from the beginning, right? In the vibe that he was putting down and with the advisors and all that kind of stuff. Now, they have a strict policy.

24:30Like, they diagnose the transmission issue. They charge for the diagnosis and then they sublet the transmission. It goes to another shop, they rebuild it, replace it, whatever they have to do, warranty it. And all Brian then does is collect a small charge for the diag, the sublet, and they stand behind it, right? So the other shop, they— and the customer's all red flags and they're telling them like, we don't really want to even touch this truck by the vibe that he's giving out.

24:58Well, they decide, okay, we're gonna do it anyway. Well, the guy has the truck in no time. So after he gets the tranny done, just like a Silverado would, camshaft goes flat. And then this guy proceeds to go around their little neighborhood telling all the other shops that don't take anything to that shop, they screwed me, they don't know what they're doing, they can't fix it.

25:18So I can understand from the standpoint of like what you look at is it's a really easy repair on a Land Rover for you. He's thinking about What can happen to my business if we do that easy repair on the Land Rover and then 6 months later, 3 months later, the check engine light comes on completely unrelated, but they can go around and just completely throw your shop's name right into the mud.

25:42So that's where me, I get to sit here sometimes and hear both sides, and it really helps me because like I've been on you and I've been like, that seems really simple, Josh. Like what? What? And then You know, I always think back to what's he trying to do? What's the end goal? So it's tough, man, from the technician standpoint, because especially if you just want to— like, he knows me.

26:02I hate to not have work in the shop, which you hate to have not work in the shop too. But I mean, it drives me crazy if the shop is kind of slow, then I'm like bored and I get my brain goes to do it and goes into overdrive and sometimes goes negative. But you have to pick the right type of Cars, period.

26:22Or else you're, you're, you're going to wind up— I don't— and no shade, you could wind up where your dad and father were, where it was just like, eventually this isn't worth the time to deal with these people. Yep. So yeah, what do you— what's some challenges working together? Is it— can I ask that between you two? What's the challenge to working together?

26:44One of you go first. Brian's thinking he'll go first. Yeah, sure. Uh, I think a lot of the challenges between us are just personality differences. Okay. Uh, usually I show up, I'm ready to go. I don't like to talk. Okay. So I like to grab those keys. I want everything on my worksheet ready to go, and I'm gonna start running and start throwing the cars back to you as quick as I can.

27:09Right. Josh is a social butterfly, as you've seen on his on his channels, even maybe visiting with you guys. Oh yeah, he loves to talk. So I can be in the middle of something, and I've got a very one-track mind. If I'm working on something, I'm focused on right here in front of me. Josh likes to come out and try to talk about 6 other things, and half of it I'm not even listening to.

27:33Now, those 6 other things, are they related to other cars? Or like, do you kind of start in the morning and you kind of drink your coffee and you plan the day and think about the day and get a feel for you know, the mood you're in, the mood everybody else is in, and you kind of think about how you're going to navigate that?

27:48It's, it's almost always— very rarely do I bring up conversation that's not business related. Okay. Somehow or another. Now, I'll— I might ask about like what he did the night before because I knew he was going out with his kids or picking them up or whatever the case is, or over the weekend. But for the most part, it's, it's always something to do with work, whether it's What do you think of this next guy that I'm interviewing?

28:13Hey, I got this on the horizon. This car is coming in. Like, so it's always business related. Yeah. And it's definitely a defect in me to bother him while he's working. Right, right. And I catch it sometimes. Sometimes I need to be reminded. Your auto repair shop doesn't slow down, and neither should your tools. When diagnostics get more advanced, systems get smarter, and vehicles get more complex, one name keeps shops moving forward: Launch Tech USA.

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29:21If you're ready to work faster, diagnose better, and stay ahead of the curve, visit our website at www.launchtechusa.com. Yeah, he— and I'm not defending him, no, or you know what I mean, but it's a situation of like where he is right now He needs your input on some of those decisions. 'Cause in a way he's asking you, like, how do you feel comfort-wise with this particular job that we might bring in here?

29:49Or what do you feel comfort-wise about this next person that we're gonna hire? Because him and I talk a lot about the scenes behind that, right? That's kind of where, like, as crazy as it is, people always wanna talk to me about how do I find a technician or what kind of technician do I hire? And I'm like, oh geez, like, here we go.

30:07Because I don't know why people necessarily think that I'm the, the insight as to what you should hire, but I do talk to a lot of technicians, right? So I think that's where that comes from. So, you know, why, why do you feel— where does that come from for you that you just want to be like focused on the car? Where does that come from?

30:26So we'll back up just a tad. Yeah. So like he comes to me and he's like, hey, we've got this guy, he's going to interview, we're going to have this working interview. And after the first 5 or 6, and we're just cycling through and cycling through, and there's not really a good fit. Yeah. So it gets to a point where Josh would come out and it's like, all right, I'm looking at these 3 resumes.

30:50What do you think? It's like, well, we've learned from history, our parameters that we've already got set here. All right, this guy's like 60, 70 years old. It's probably not gonna be a very good fit for very long. I know you're in love with old guys. They bring a lot to the table. But longevity-wise, is this going to be something where he shows up, shares a little bit of knowledge, and then he's gone in the next year or two, retired?

31:19Or now we've got, like our scenario right now, we've got these 2 applicants side by side. Applicant A's got this experience, Applicant B's got this experience. What do you think? Yeah. You then provide your opinion as far as, well, this looks the most promising for these reasons. And then he goes the opposite direction. It's a problem. Yeah, like, it's, it's a problem.

31:47The, you know, we had, if you go back to my channel, episode 37, right? Like, that we had a blowout of our standards. Like, no one's yelling at each other. No one's throwing any tools, right? So it's like, we're both more mature than that. But I definitely, you know, people watch that episode and they're like, can you imagine going on YouTube and telling the world that your technician sucks?

32:10It's like, if that's what you got from that, then I'm like, you didn't listen. Yeah, it's like I just went to the world and said I am failing as a leader. And it opens up— it was like kind of a get back down to ground zero and figure out that I have really poor active listening skills, right? I ask for input and I mean, I ask for input and, uh, when it's given, it's— and it's not taken, then it's like my technician is— I'm gonna— just gonna— you're not listening to me anyway, why am I doing it?

32:42Yeah, yeah. And yes, there's, uh, I want the input not for validation but for other, like, other perspective insight. And at the same time, like, I'm, I'm trying to do the right thing for the company, right? And I'm— I don't know, I'm listening, but I'm not— it's like they talk about the 30/30 treatment, right? It's like you go— well, you walk outside 30 feet and you look 30 feet in the air, whose name's on the building, right?

33:09Yeah. So it's like everyone gets a— what did I say? Everyone gets a voice but not a vote is what Rick says, right? And it's like everyone gets a voice. I want to make sure I take as much as I can, but if I'm not doing it right, Why, why is what I'm doing the right answer? If I have another person that has another perspective, then it's like, why not?

33:30Why isn't that being followed? And from episode 37, it's like, okay, if I'm not doing it right, then maybe I need to— maybe there is more to it and I'm making the wrong decisions even though I think it's the best decision, right? So we need to have, you know, I'm going to end up soon probably getting with Josh Parnell and then get his, uh, his downloadable version of like leadership guide and start to try to get some like more structured things.

34:00Um, because I like structure and if I can get that and then try to implement some of those tasks and ways that and techniques that he does things, it's like, okay, let's try to work on this a little bit because I'm failing as a leader. That's like the bottom line. And, um, like business-wise we're doing okay. We're putting money in the bank, but the leadership part.

34:19Like, I want him to be happy, I want my wife to be happy. And it's like, okay, there's probably— I probably need to like open up my ears a little bit more. Because I'm in that place where— I've been in that place where they'll, you know, they'll ask for the input and you'll give suggestions, you get perspective, and it's like never then implemented on, right?

34:37And then eventually it becomes like— we all, I think, reach a level, I think it's just human nature, where we go, it doesn't really matter what I say at this answer, right? And then we'll start to maybe like half-ass the answer or even like go completely sarcastic, right, with the whole thing because you're not going to implement it anyway. I don't think you guys are there yet, right, in that situation.

34:58I don't— do you feel like everything you say is disregarded? It's not really disregarded. Um, I think the best way to put it from my side is he's hearing but he's not listening. Yeah. So he hears the words, but nothing really comes of it. Is that fair, Josh? It's 100% accurate. Yeah. I mean, I just, that's where the structured thing, it's like if we have the monthly meeting to talk and it's not about performance, I mean, there's some of that, but it's not what it's for.

35:29And if we have a dedicated plan, we talk through those things. It's like, okay, this is why I want to do this. At least it's being, um, taken more serious. Because I think a lot of the stuff that he, he says to me, it's like I'm disregarding it. That's not what I'm doing, right? And if I don't explain the why, which is the most powerful part, then, um, it's not— it's just looking as being disregarded.

35:55And it's not what's happening. It's just there's, you know, that's just what's happening sometimes too. The time frame, right? Like, we can sit down and have a discussion and even though we're doing it every month, I think sometimes we think that like the suggestion that we give, if by next month at that time it hasn't been implemented, we think it's been disregarded.

36:16And I know that like what I learned as I got older is a lot of things that I was saying they were hearing, and eventually it did come to fruition of what it was. It just took longer than sometimes what I expected my schedule would be for when I would see results, right? And I think that that's something that like Because it's, it's really simple.

36:34You can go, this is the goal and it's right here. And it looks like a very short trip to get to there. But there's a whole lot of stuff that's going to come in and out in the way to get there. Right. It doesn't mean that like we lose sight of this or that you have taken it and tossed it away and we're not even going to think about it.

36:49It's just like other things keep popping up. If, if you get another technician, how do you feel right now? Like, do you feel like that's going to add to your stress, or is it going to help your day-to-day? So with what we're currently looking at and have decided to attempt, uh, it's gonna be kind of a mixture of both. Okay. Uh, we've pretty much— I think we're in agreeance at this point that an A-level or master tech, they're not really looking for work.

37:17If they are as good as they say they are, shop they're at, it's not going to let them go. Yeah. So I think the video we watched the other day says, all right, we're going to shoot for an A and settle for a C and then bring them up to wherever we need them. So ultimately, we're going to grab somebody that has potential, has the right attitude, the right personality.

37:39So in the short— here, a month, 2 months, 3 months down the road, it's going to require a lot of training from Josh and me to try to start bringing whoever this guy is, up to our standards. Right. Which drastically exceed most of the standards of any of the shops in our area. Right. So we know that's gonna be a struggle. So in the short interim, yes, it's gonna be more stressful.

38:05Yes, there's gonna be mistakes. But long-term, actually getting someone in there that works good with all of us, that's part of the culture, actually believes in what we do, it'll alleviate a lot of that stress. Are you comfortable in a mentor role? I am. Okay, you've got experience in it? I do. Do you think he's going to be a good mentor? Yeah.

38:25Yeah, that's good. I think you'd be a great mentor too, honestly. Like, I think you've got the kind of like what you and I share technician-wise, like technical ability. I think there's— you've got a ton to offer, you know what I mean? And learning— you're a sharp guy, like You know, but it can be sometimes that, um, like it's the same as me.

38:46Like there's so much that I have that I can share, but sometimes the attitude comes out as to why, like, I completely disregard again some of the things, you know, that I shouldn't. Because I got to remember that, like, when I'm trying to teach them something, I should remove all of that because I'm just trying to teach you a skill or a process or a method.

39:05But some of the method is so linked to the way my what I think, that it's hard for me to pass that down without putting some of that taint on it. You know what I mean? That tainted perspective of why I do it that way. You know, I do a lot of things the way I do because I worked flat rate for so many years that it was just about speed and I didn't care.

39:27Right. I did not care. Like we joked, he's— I can't make a case study on something to save my life because I probably went out and either like touched it and put hands on it. And that's how I knew that it was bad because it was burning hot and it shouldn't have been. Or I wiggled the harness and the engine stalled and I never had a— I had the only tool I might have had was a pocket screwdriver on it, right?

39:49Because I was going after something. Whereas so I can't necessarily go, this is the lab scope that I took of that and this is the, this is the data that was on it like that. I don't have that. But what I'm trying to always teach people is a process, right, of how I— and that's tough for me because now I find a lot of people are getting into this Like we talked about that Jeep, they're getting into the, the learning.

40:11I only learn by based on the data. All right. And I learn at it going like we talked about that Jeep, like we're talking about, you're talking heat soak. And I'm going, man, it's really hard to think that that's like heat soak when the temperature is what it is right now. Right. And we're sharing how like I didn't see that heat soak happen a lot on that particular Jeep.

40:30The predecessor, the 4-liter, like your friend LJ that was in here, Yeah, a lot more, a lot more. And still not super common. Not just because I lived in Canada, but it just wasn't a super common thing. Right. That's the struggle that I have is because there's a lot of knowledge that I think a lot of the older techs like you and I can teach.

40:48But it's now we're running into this younger generation where if it's not like on a lab scope or with a bunch of traces and data and all this kind of stuff, they don't get it. And I go back to like, there's still— I fixed so many cars with just like a visual inspection and listening to it and then some data interpretation, I don't have to go and do a bunch of tests afterwards.

41:11And that's where it's hard for me to go to, to fit into, I think, a lot of other people's culture now. Lucas and I talk about this. I would not be successful in Lucas's shop because he wants all this evidence. See, and that's, that's what we're— that's exactly— look at him shake his head like, yeah, it's— that's where I'm at. I want without a doubt an answer, right?

41:31And I will charge to get that answer, or I will absorb it, but the technician doesn't take the brunt of it directly. Okay. And that's what led up to some of the tension from episode 37. It's like, it— I'm like Lucas, and what I am finding out is that to run the shop that I want to run, it adds so much extra stress on it.

41:53Yes. And it's like, because I want Perfection, it's like the tool of the devil, right? And I'm looking at constantly reputation and accuracy, and it's— the juice may not be worth the squeeze. Yeah, right. Because I'm pushing technicians away because it's like, you didn't do it my way. You know, I can do my best to explain the why, which is how you get buy-in.

42:16It's the most important part. But even after I still explain the why— why are we doing this voltage drop test on this starter? It's like, because I need to know it. Yeah. And it's like, well, I already proved the starter's bad. You and I talked about that. Yeah. And it's like, okay, but you're getting compensated for the test or it's within the initial evaluation, which is approximately an hour.

42:36We don't talk hours to the customer, right? But approximately an hour. But at the same time, if we're trying to still meet production goals, which is what, like, we changed the pay plan again recently because it wasn't necessarily fair for the tech, right? Yeah, I run my shop a little bit different. I'm probably very empathetic, and it's like, I'm going to take the responsibility now for the app, for the production, for the pay.

42:59But, um, you know, there's still, you know, coaching that's telling me, you know, you're kind of not doing it right. I'm like, well, I'm doing it my way. Maybe it's, you know, and it's like, I tried doing it that way and I don't like it. But yeah, so like pushing that stuff away and, or pushing the technician away because I want to do things a certain way If I want to do that my way, and if I ask you to go rotate tires because the check engine light's on, if you're paid hourly, yeah, I guess you can do that, right?

43:26But you're still going to crush moral— morale, I mean. And, and it's like, who wants to work for a guy like that? And I don't want to be that micromanager. And I caught myself doing it, and it was just more evident after that. It was like, okay, I need to like roll it back a little bit. Trust, trust my team. Hire the right guys.

43:42If there's mistakes being made, if there was a mistake made, it's paid training. Yeah. Right. And as long as it's not like what Cecil talked about in class yesterday, as long as it's not fire or blood or it's not going to cost you $6,000, let it go. Yeah. Right. So like, okay, let's just, let's try to, let's try to turn it down a little bit.

44:01Because Josh and I talked about, especially about that starter thing, because like he's sharing it with me and I'm going, dude, here's how I would approach it. And I'd be exactly the same. You give me a starter diag, if I walk out and I rap on it with a hammer and it starts, my diag's done. And he— and I see his point.

44:15Well, you could just disturb it and it could be a volt drop connection right on there. Guess what, man? I still got to go through all that work to say access that starter, right? I'm putting a new one in when I'm there and I'm going to fix it. The other thing that I might see, as soon as it's— I see it right there, I'm going to fix that too, right?

44:33So that's how I think, because now And I shared with one of— the last one I had was a Titan when I worked at the dealer. Not the last one, but one that sticks in my brain is we had a Titan that was under warranty and intermittently would hit the key and it wouldn't crank. Sometimes it would click, click, click. Sounds just like a starter, right?

44:50Well, on that Titan, it's buried under the intake manifold. You know what I did? I ordered the starter motor. And when I got in there, guess what? That cable was right from the factory. Had backed off and was loose. Yep. Now I could have just cleaned that up, straightened out that arcing, the pitting that's happened from the burn, and, and not put the starter in.

45:13Under warranty, I'm putting the starter in. Now on a customer's car, that's where it becomes a real thing. What do you do here? You've already got the customer— can, can I say convinced? Convinced that they need a starter, they're going to buy a starter, put the starter in. The due diligence thing is now when I'm there, I continue the diag process as I'm replacing the part.

45:34I see the effect of the loose connection and I fix that too. That's the difference where swap gnostics or shotgun diag has gotten a bad rap in this industry is because we may hand it off to somebody else to say, just go put that starter in. And they hit the key and they drove it in. They had no idea where they're bringing it in.

45:52Right. And they don't notice. They don't look at that when they take it apart. We're looking always failure analysis. Oh shoot, that was only found— or they get smartmouth and they go out and they go, hey, it didn't even need it. It was only just a loose connection. The end of the day, you fixed the friggin car, right? And you, you, you look at enough things to know while you're in there, what are you going to do to make the job last as long as possible?

46:16So I get both sides because like I've worked with guys, if I hit the thing with a starter with a hammer and it cranks up, my diag's done. So that one was what, a Cadillac? No, it was the Infiniti. Either way, it was Nissan. Yeah, starter stuck underneath intake manifold. Uh, that one in particular, we went ahead and checked obviously supply voltage, the whole nine, made sure all that was good, went to the patch cable that we could reach right there at the back of the intake and verified we had power, we had ground.

46:45Yep. Still no click, no nothing. We went ahead and ripped the intake off. It's like, all right, I'm here. You know what? I'm gonna do the last test myself for my standards. Supply power and ground to it. Nothing. Starter's just locked up. It's dead. Locked up. No good. Yep. So in my mind, we're good. It's a shotgun. It's dead. It's not coming back.

47:09Get ready to start taking it off. Josh comes over. 5, 10 minutes later, hey, I need a voltage drop test put on this now, but I just confirmed it's dead. Yeah. And that's where sometimes he wants more. Yeah. And I'm looking at, well, if I swap this, I've already verified I got power and ground to it. Yeah. We know this is completely dead.

47:28We have to have it. Why am I wasting another 10, 15 minutes to run the next set of tests? Yeah, that's another 10, 15 minutes. I'm the only tech. I need to get to the next car. Yeah. Now, do you stress because right now, like, the fact that you're— you know the work schedule and you're the only tech, does it add stress to you?

47:46It does. See, that's tough, eh? It is. It is really. Because like, from me, my standpoint, I was always very blessed early in my career. I didn't give a shit, right? The more cars just meant the more money for me, and the less cars would irritate me. Now when I see— when I work in a shop and I see all these cars piling up, even though I'm, I'm not paid on any kind of commission-based or flat rate or any of that kind of stuff, it adds my— because I feel the same way.

48:14I'm like, they're going to be on me. Like, because we got all these cars backed up. It's like tire season in Canada, right? You and I've talked about that because no thing is just a tire job. It's a tire job. But plus, can you look at this window there? And plus, like, it always is the plus that adds the stress level of all the cars piling up outside.

48:31So I feel you, Brian. I really do, man. It is not— it's not easy. Um, the, the, the multiple test thing— when he's— he's right when he says if you're hourly and I tell you to go rotate the tires because I think it's going to fix the check engine light, you just do it. When I'm— when I'm commission-based pay, hybrid, flat rate, whatever, I'm wired where I'm going to challenge you every time on why am I doing that?

49:00Because like at the end of the goal, I'm just in survival mode. I either want to hit my number that I need to hit to bonus up. You and I have talked about this, or I'm in like, I, I want to get as much done as possible to maximize whatever I make. I'm always in survival mode and it affects the attitude that I can come to you.

49:19And this is what a lot of people, when they get from hybrid pay, they don't understand where, well, I pay them hybrid. But they still give me all this flack about how they want, you know, how I want them to do stuff. That's where in when, when their pay is justified somewhat on how fast they do something, they're always going to want to have the conversation, right, Josh?

49:38And you're nodding like, yeah, I know, it's frustrating. It's exactly what happened. Yeah. Yep. I'm not— and I can't sit here and tell you or everybody that like they should only pay their guys hourly, they should only pay straight time, and and production— see, I almost have trained my brain not to use that word because it triggers— um, should even come off the table as a conversation piece.

50:01But it has to, it has to be there because we live and die on that, right? But I think that too many of us— because the tech has every right that if I go out and I smack it with a hammer and I've got an hour sold at Diag or whatever, right, and I smack it with a hammer and I do a quick AVR test on the battery and I've got 2 things that I've proven what it is, my diag's done.

50:22And I got to put a half an hour, 45 minutes extra in my pocket for efficiency. When all of a sudden now it's the process is like, I can't make time on some people's processes is what I'm trying to say. And that's tough because you want to get faster and you want to be able to put some time away. But then they go, well, you, you make the time on the repair.

50:41Yes, but where my experience was always I didn't have a lot of extra time on the repair. Now here's the other thing that what you're doing well is because from my training and my experience, the quality control that happened after the repair was something that was never allotted for time-wise, charge-wise, or pay-wise. So now when we have— I'm— people that are listening as technicians, slow down a bit because like if you're doing it right and they're giving you quality control time, That can be where some of that, if your time goes over a little bit on the repair, you're still not going to lose because they should have added the matrix that adds a couple

51:19tenths to the job and you're going to be okay. Yeah. So we, we initially were doing a, we added a quality control about a year ago that was paying 15 minutes and at $0 an hour to the customer. Right. And it was kind of tanking the ELR, effective labor rate. Enough to where it skews the labor gross profit to where it's like, hmm, I'm not making what I need to make overall GP to be able to pay all the bills.

51:47I'm like, so we have to get the ELR up so I can afford to pay, give raises basically. Right. Yeah. So, um, we stopped doing that. Now we did, we still run 25% over Mitchell times, or if the technician feels as though this job pays 4 in Mitchell, Uh, after multiplier comes out to 5, I need 6. Okay. Like, I don't care.

52:09I mean, it has to be somewhat justifiable, right? You can't just like throw extra hours on for no reason. Right. But I mean, a great example is of like, I'm on board. I'm not doing a Honda V6 timing belt in 3.5 hours of what Mitchell says. Yeah. Like even with multiplier, I'm still putting more on that because I've never done a timing belt that fast on those cars.

52:26Yeah. If I worked on nothing but Honda, maybe I can justify 25% over 3.5, whatever hours that is. But a timing belt in my shop is 5.5 hours with a water pump. It's like, that's it. You know, I don't really care because we've seen all the, all the posts and the guys go, I whip them off in an hour and 30 minutes.

52:41I remember when I worked at Hyundai, it was crazy fast how fast some of those guys could do the timing belt and all the idlers and pulleys in there at the same time. It's like we're talking 45 minutes. It was a 4-hour job, right? And they were just so fast because the muscle memory, it's just reps in, right? And But for a shop that has to do everything, every brand, every make, every model that comes in— not has to, but you know what I mean— we don't just do one thing over again.

53:07We don't ever get the reps in. And it's crazy to me to think that it's like, I look at book time and I'm so glad so many in the, in the industry are probably finally adding the matrix to it. Because I know I've met a lot of great techs, you and I know them, and a lot of them, I'll say this, most guys, the first time I've ever watched them do a job, a lot of jobs they don't they don't cut the time in half.

53:28They don't even cut it— some, most, a lot break even if they're doing good quality work, doing it the way it wants. Who was I talking to yesterday? And it's like, their process is you don't put a caliper back on without torquing the bolts. Every friggin bolt, it's Loctited and torqued. That's just their process. Now, how many times would you hire a guy, and if he walked in there and you said that's the way the process, they go, you're crazy, I've been doing this forever, I know how to do brakes.

53:53Doesn't matter that you know how to do brakes. This is now my process. It adds time, right? That's how we've been able to make time on brake jobs forever is because we don't necessarily run over to the wire wheel like I'm famous for. And I wire wheel every bolt. I don't Loctite them back in, but I probably should. And I wire wheel all the fasteners, check them all out, and then I put the thing back together.

54:13That's the way I was trained, the way I do it. But we— I've worked with countless guys that they do a 15-minute brake job because nothing gets cleaned. Pads get slapped on, rotor gets hammered off, rotor gets hammered on. And out the door it goes. It's finding that, that perfect mix, hey Josh, of what is— what does quality look like, but does quality have to go over the time?

54:34That's the trick, man. That's the secret sauce. It's, it's hard when you have— I have, I have standards, right? And I mean, everyone has standards. Whether or not to be high or low is the difference, right? And, um, when I am so specific about how I want things done, because it's my shop, my name, my reputation, my legacy, whether or not it be small or big, right?

54:57It's like, it's hard to be able to express that same vision. I don't expect a technician to have the same, uh, burden of ownership and same care, right? Nobody really does. And when you tie in production to that, you're You know, my idea was that, hey, this is all fair. It's fair if I don't have a bunch of speed bumps and obstacles in the way for the technician to be able to produce.

55:23Yeah, I keep my labor GP exactly where I want it because now you're getting paid $22 an hour because you only billed out 30 hours a week, and then when you bill out 70 hours, you get paid $62 an hour. It's like, yeah, it's fair, everybody's making a lot of money. And it's like, wait a minute, now I can't make 70 hours because you wanted me to wire wheel bolts, Loctite this.

55:42Yeah, you know, you want me to do 3 extra test steps, 10-mile test drive when it's done, you know, burn-in and all that stuff. So as time went on, when it's like, okay, I'm seeing a problem, I'm acknowledging it, I'm trying to think of a way to move forward with this. And at that point in time, I wanted to take the burden off the technician to be able to produce.

55:59And now you're getting paid, in my mind, 50 hours of production. That's what our goals are set, is 50 hours of production. You're getting paid for that And you're— but now it's like, hey, you're getting paid what you need to get paid. And then when you overproduce or you produce more than that and you hustle, I want you to be rewarded. So instead of it being like the carrot that you always talk about, it's like now I'm trying to get it more and more close to this is now a reward for your effort instead of I'm paying you what you're worth.

56:28It's like when you push forth more, it's like, hey, this is— thank you for what you did. Here's some extra money. So, you know, I'm still— I was like I told Brian when we went through this stuff and we were like, after a day or two after we had that kind of like confrontation, I'm grateful he came in the next day. I wasn't sure if he was going to, right?

56:49And it's like I had it. I told him, I said, look, man, 26, 27-year technician, you know, I don't consider myself like a master tech still, and 2 years shop ownership. I mean, you like, it's not his responsibility. He's working for a guy that's 2 years in. Yeah. Well, you know, but it's like, there's got to be a little bit of grace.

57:11I don't think he— the goals that he sets down, do you think they're outrageous or hard to hit? Or like 50? 50 is not hard for you to hit? 50 is not hard to hit as long as all the pieces are moving like they should. Yeah. So what I mean by that, from the front of the office all the way through the back of the shop.

57:31If we get a car in and my diagnostic notes are simply AC broke, fix. Yeah, well, what's the story there? Yeah, are we just not cooling? Uh, was there any kind of noise, any precursors? And no details. Well, now I've got to figure it out, or we got to get a hold of that customer again to get those details. Well, that eats into our time because Because what if you walk out to it and hit it up and hit the key and start it up and it's blowing cold right when you look at it?

57:58We've had a couple of those. That's tricky, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. I don't like that. Right? Because then that would send me down a complete wormhole. Like, do I— okay, do I go and drive this like an hour? And after an hour, the— because I'll talk about a Nissan. We used to see lots of Nissans that like after an hour that clutch coil would go open circuit and the clutch wouldn't cycle anymore.

58:19And you chase your freaking ass on that car, right? Yeah, that would drive me nuts. Like, I'm just like, I'm already getting mad thinking of a flat rate— me as a flat rate tech. But see, what we knew is after we'd seen so many compressor failures, it didn't drive me crazy anymore because it's like— and it goes back to that saying, you laugh at me, it's gonna need one eventually.

58:38And you would just go out there with your estimate for selling the compressor, and you know what, it fixed the freaking car a lot of the time. And that's where I believe sometimes that it's that window when we operate profitably, profitably, and we'd have one that, well, it did need a compressor, like we tore it, but there was also something else that was going on.

58:58Control head in a Nissan would do that too. We just took care of it after the fact. You know what I mean? And that's where this is always going to be such a fluid conversation back and forth between the owner and the technician. I think the good Lord just put me here to try and either make fun of it or monetize it or, you know, help people understand both sides of how it can go because it just has to go that way.

59:20This is not— as crazy as it sounds, it's not a perfect science. You know, fixing cars is not a perfect science. Cars, for all the information that's in them, they're operated by people, they're built by people, and they don't tell us what's wrong with them. Now you can say, well, the data— sure it does when it's broken. But some people are getting so tuned in that they're telling us there's something wrong before the data is telling us something's wrong.

59:50And that becomes the whole can of worms of like, how can we go after this? Right. And there's the struggle in this because that's where the communication breaks down, customer to owner and then owner to technician, because it's interpretation on so many different fronts. We don't really know what it is until we actually dig in and start to investigate. And then when you find things, you can't ignore it because you found something, because it probably is what it is.

1:00:15It's probably the cause until it's not. Till it's not, because there's 2 causes, right? And then who— the, the problem with all of those things, right, it even gets even further into it with like, as technology advances, it's exponential. Yeah. So it's gonna get even worse and when you're on a production-based pay, flat rate or hybrid, the technician is the one that's taking the brunt.

1:00:35Yeah, right. They're the ones that feel it most in their pocket. And then, you know, then the shop is— the front is coming back on why, you know, that you're not making production or whatever. Can't pay you more, you're not producing enough. Yeah. And it's just not— it's just not fair. Like you said before, that flat rate's not going to go away.

1:00:51I think that flat rate in a dealership— if I went back to a dealership, I would absolutely want to be flat rate. I think I can still do it, right? And, um, but there's so much support network in those things when a properly ran shop— now some of them are terrible. I remember I waited for an engine for an hour, uh, after it was already sitting here and they wouldn't bring it out to my bay.

1:01:12We almost started swinging, right? Because now you were absolutely affecting my paycheck. I already slammed this out. Oh, and that, that stupid car that that happened to, it was a Volkswagen Passat, and there was a difference in the crankshaft between automatic and manual. And when it was all said and done and then finally the engine was out there, I looked at the crankshafts.

1:01:27The first thing I did was a wrong freaking engine anyway. So yeah, who, who takes that? I'm the one that's losing because they ordered the wrong freaking part. Yeah, I didn't order the part. Yeah. Now it's— and in a perfect world, you have another bay, you just go on with life, right? And it's a little bit of stress, but you're like, and maybe I wasted an hour waiting because I, I, I maybe I, I put my— started to put my tools away or organize this because the new engine's supposed to be coming right out.

1:01:52As soon as it's not there, it's like the talk all the time we had last week with somebody was like, what do you do? Do you make the technician throw the wheels on it and push it back outside? Like, because— and some of you are gonna— and you're nodding your head now as a shop owner, but back in the day as a technician flat rate in the bay, if somebody said, hey Josh, go throw that subframe half back in that thing so that the wheels can be driven out and push it out because we're now 2 weeks waiting for— you just said F you.

1:02:19Right? Go get the forklift and jam it through the windows and lift it out and carry it out. That's, that's what I— because I'm not effing paid to do this. Yeah, it's— but so, but to sit there and like let yourself smolder in it, if as a flat rate tech, I'm gonna bitch about it and then I'm gonna do it because I need to get the next 4 cars in so I can actually make a paycheck.

1:02:39But see, some of those technicians, Josh, they're the ones that like, when it, when it gets to that level with them, they're the ones that you start seeing tools fly. Yeah, right. I can't say that they're wrong because of that, because like we all think we're, we're, we all think we're at our level, and then somebody, life will pile on something else, and you thought you were at your max, and all of a sudden you just, you took it up another notch to how angry you can actually get or how jaded you can get, right?

1:03:04And then it's like, who was that guy? I look back sometimes now, I talk about that thing where I, I, it almost came to fisticuffs with the guy that was getting me the wrong brake rotors. I look back now and I go, who was that guy? Like, that wasn't me. But then I remember, oh, that was me a lot of weeks because the— just the pay wasn't there and the stress level was already up.

1:03:24And, you know, they tell you like, hey, you got to make hay when the sun's shining, right? Boy, like there's all kinds of these at work. It's a busy time of year. Like, get it done, get it done, get it done. And your stress level is just incrementally going up and up and up and up and up. And you're like, I'm making money.

1:03:38But you're, you're, you're right at your limit. One little thing and the wheel falls off the cart, not the car, the cart. And also the apple cart's turned upside down and you're like, I, I became a different person. And that's why for me, I can never go back. I can't do it. It's just, it's not in my culture anymore. Physically, I can't do it.

1:03:57I'm— I only have one good arm. But the reality is, is like, it puts me in such a headspace now. It's just a matter of time when somebody starts to to pay me that way or talk about production that way before I sabotage myself. So don't ever become that. Always have— because here's why I became that way. There was nobody to listen.

1:04:18There was nobody to have the conversation. So always come to him with your, with your, with your feelings and your perspective. And, and, you know, but I have to be receptive to it. And you are. You're not a terrible listener, but you do need to— I've known you enough now, we've shared enough that I know that you're, you're stubborn. You're stubborn sometimes.

1:04:37Yeah, you know, so are you. Oh yeah, but it's that, it's that A type of personality that gets into this that makes us so good. But we almost have to like flick that switch to the other type of person that we need to be when we're in your role now as a shop owner, right? Because yes, I'm stubborn and I'm opinionated and I'm pigheaded, and I have a record that shows that like I'm very difficult to employ.

1:05:00Because I think I'm pretty flipping smart. But here's the reality, like, we're all flipping smart, but the truly successful ones are the ones that are flipping smart, but they're able to navigate the other side of this conversation. That is how they manage to not talk themselves out of a job, or they don't sour their, their attitude and their, and their personality till nobody wants to be around them.

1:05:23Well, luckily I came to Josh at a point in my life where I'm a lot more calm than I used to be. I used to be easily excitable. Uh, I like how he even says that, easily excitable. Like, it's a very politically correct way to say, like, I was ready to throw hands. Like, that's, you know, Josh has heard the stories. Yeah, he, he's known, uh, previously I've been at a stage where I threw hands.

1:05:45Um, but it's something where— and learn how to humble myself and see both sides for what it really is, as best as we can. So just like some of the incidents you've probably heard about at this point, me and Josh just kind of get to the point. You know what? We do have a bit of a difference of opinions at this point.

1:06:03I'm going to pick up my toys. I'm going to go home. I'm going to cool off. We'll talk in a day or so. Yeah, that's awesome for him to be so emotionally intelligent that he doesn't respond when emotions are high. Like, I'm getting better with that, but he's already, in my opinion, mastered it. So that's awesome because you can do a bunch of bad things when— and, you know, very bad things.

1:06:25Yeah, right. And it's like, I respect him tremendously for that. And I just have to know, I need to like, when he's ready, you know, it's like I— the next day I said, you know, we're gonna have to talk about this. We'll, we'll put a pin in it for now, but this has to be addressed. This can't fester and we have to come up with a resolution.

1:06:44So it's like, I'll give you space. You know, I'm grateful he came into work the next day, you know, but— and it took about 4 days. It happened on a Thursday. I think by Tuesday or Wednesday— and it's been— the atmosphere in the shop has been the absolute best it has ever been. It's good. It's good. It's awesome. So I'm hoping that with some more guidance and structure, we can kind of maintain that.

1:07:07And hiring somebody else is going to help. You know, we've been hiring for 9 months now. Yeah. And I cannot find— I gave 2 job offers One guy was like, he's about an hour drive and he couldn't do it. He was going to have been an awesome fit. Yeah. And, um, you know, I came in for a 3-day working interview and he's like, dude, I just can't do this drive.

1:07:24So I appreciate the honesty because I'm gonna pay to move his toolbox here. It's like, okay, you're gonna like work 2 weeks and it's not gonna work. But yeah, and the other guy is just like, as time goes on, I'm trying to figure out where to go. Now most of my coaching and mentors in the industry are like, you need to get a guy that comes in here and bills out 40 hours a week.

1:07:41Yeah, that's not the type of shop that I want. Like, yeah, obviously I need production. It's, it's like, no shit, right? But I don't want a guy to come in just to bang out work and go home at 5 o'clock. And it's just like, I don't want that kind of atmosphere where it's just like, this is a job to me. Like, we're trying to build something better here, and that's making the scope of technician pool from a puddle to a mud puddle.

1:08:03Yeah, right. So it's not a, it's not a freaking, you know, a lake of, you know. And yeah, everybody says that, oh, go find one that you can pull in here and do 40 hours. And I, as the dealer guy from way back then, I saw lots of them hire guys that could pull 40 hours. And you know what? I did 10 of their hours over again every fucking week.

1:08:23Yep. And you don't want that. And you don't want that. No. So, so yeah, and that's what I'm saying. So it's like, as time goes on, like, I, I— where I'm at in Fayetteville In my opinion, there's not a huge technician pool, right? And the guys that are out there, yes, they might be able to produce, but not when you put them in my shop to where we do things different.

1:08:41100%, we're not doing the same things that you're doing. Yeah. Where these guys are able to produce 70 hours a week. You will not come into my shop and produce 70 hours a week. I can almost guarantee it. Yeah. Now what you will produce is going to be 50 hours of amazing work that will not come back is the goal, right? So it's like, that's what we're trying to find.

1:08:58And I can't find the person that can do that right now. And, you know, everyone's telling me don't hire a new guy. Well, it's like, look, man, I got a cultural fit that has— he's ambitious and he wants to do things. And it's like, hey, let's try this out. You know, it's like we're going to try to— we're doing it. I mean, I'm pretty sure that we're going to give— we're doing a 1-day working interview.

1:09:18Normally we do 1 to 3 depending on skill level because I'm not really actively looking at 100% skill unless we're getting into like a lot of higher pay or you're being hired because of your skill set, then we might try to push for like, what can you do and what do you know? But for now, the, the one-day working interview is really for a cultural fit to make sure— like, if we weren't going to do a working interview, I met him after hours, nobody's there, I would probably offer him a job.

1:09:45But that's done a disservice to my wife and my technician. Yes. It's like, hey, um, I want to bring you in and work for a day and then make sure it's all going to jive. And if you're going to be receptive, you know, it's not fail-safe, but it's something better than nothing. This guy is such in a bad spot where he's at right now.

1:10:02He thought he wasn't getting paid to come in. And he was like, yeah, I'll be in. Yeah, for a whole day. I know. And I was like, your daytime. And I forgot, like, I never even told him about that. And I forgot. And I had to text him. I'm like, he told me he was good to come in on Monday. And I was like, oh, by the way, I'm paying you for the day.

1:10:16And he's like, oh really? That's great. I'm like, oh my God, dude, this guy is so freaking jaded that he's just like willing to do anything. It's really sad. Yeah. So I mean, like, there's a lot of them out there like that, bro. I tell you right now, like, I, I've, I've had the working interview and done the working interview thing, and I never expected to get paid.

1:10:34I was just willing to do it to try and get into a better fit. What's your opinion on working interviews? Because I missed a couple guys for that. Let's ask the interviewee or interviewer. What, like, what, working interview? Like working, working job interview? I think everybody— I think this industry needs to pull its head out of its butt and actually start doing it.

1:10:53Like, when I think about some of the shop owners that have gone as far as they've gone to bring guys from other states, make it happen, come down and do a week Right? And it's not just, are you going to fit in the shop at that week? Because you— they may fit by day 2 and they love that. Like, I could see myself working forever.

1:11:08You got to show them the rest of the area and go like, do you want to live in Fayetteville? Do you want to live in Blowing Rock? Do you want to live— like, I'm talking, I'm thinking of people that have brought techs from farther away. It's a big commitment. Andrew Fisher, right? Like, he— we know him, he's a friend of ours, goes and works at arguably one of the best shops in the country.

1:11:25But there's, there's still family things that like brought him away and he had to make a move. You know, it kills him every day, I think. Well, it doesn't kill him every day, but he, he waxes nostalgic about being there and it's such an awesome place to work. I think we have to do it in this industry. We have to become a lot more flexible about how we're going to find the talent because it's like you're going to do— you're going to grow the talent in your shop or we're going to sit here and, and wonder how do we poach talent from something else.

1:11:53Both cost money. That's the thing. Growing them or poaching them, it's a ton of money. Ton. So that— but we have no choice in this industry. We're at that point now. And there's, there's a collective in the industry just wants to blame the high schools and blame the colleges and blame the parents. What good does blaming anybody do for that? Not a damn thing.

1:12:11At the end of the day, you still need another tech. You still want another tech. Blaming everybody ain't gonna do squat. That's why you put the wheels on the car and push it outside and get moving to the next thing that's actually— and the next thing is, is like, I have to to now, for the people that are listening, and I'm not citing you as an example, if you think you're doing, oh, I can help my customer by doing free diag, or I can help my customer by doing this, that money that you're not charging for that, that you feel good about, you don't have that money then to come and build your— and I'm

1:12:40not talking profit now— you can't build your team without money because it's gonna cost money to get people to come in to your business and work there. It's just the reality. We have a window here where we have a lot of young people that are thinking about coming in. We have a lot of old angry people like me. And what we both want is good pay and a good culture, and we can't build that if you don't fucking charge.

1:13:04So yeah, I think like just coming to this, this tools— yes, this is a mandatory— it was mandatory this year, uh, for the shop, um, because of like just the dynamic we have in the shop right now. And, um, ASTA is always mandatory because it's an hour and a half north of us, and it's like— and most of my friends are in North Carolina.

1:13:24So that is mandatory always. And those 2 training conventions with 3 tickets. Yeah. Is about— it's going to run about $26,000 minimum. If we have a 4th ticket, we have more lost production pay. Right. So, you know, it's like basically my training budget is $40,000 a year. Yeah. So $40,000 and I have a small shop. I have one technician, man. You know, like we'll be lucky to break a million this year.

1:13:55And I think we can do it, especially if we get another tech in there. But like, that's, that's a lot. And my expenses are really high for what we— for what I'm doing. But if I'm not charging for diag, how can I justify a $40,000 training bill? Yeah. And people don't care to know that. They don't, they don't care. They're just like, oh, it's $170,000.

1:14:12Yeah. And charging diag is just an example. But I mean, let's roll it into and say I don't run a matrix. I don't mark my parts up. Like, we— the free diag thing always gets tossed there and it's the hot button thing. But like, I mean charging effectively all throughout the business, same as you, same as we talked about. Okay, so here's what I'm going to say to you.

1:14:32I want to see you back here next year at this event, and I want to see you at, you know, when we do ASTA in September. Yeah, I'd love to see you there. And, and, you know, um, one-point closing, what do you want to say to him? And then you get to do the same thing. Oh, because I know he brags about you all the time to me, 100%.

1:14:56So you— and then we close on that, we'll go get some lunch. Tell you what, you go first because I'm a little lost. Um, I would say that I have a strong technician, right? Nobody is perfect. Uh, as long as you're willing to listen and absorb knowledge then you're an asset. As soon as you have, uh, someone that is shut down and like doesn't want to listen to anything, you're now a liability.

1:15:23And you're not— you're not necessarily worthless, but you're nowhere near as worth to the company as what you think you are. You're an obstacle instead of— yeah. So, and I have a technician that is still— he 100% does it. Brian Pollack says that the first 40 is the job, the next 40 is where you're going to hone your craft. I have a technician that understands that and does that on his own.

1:15:46So this training conference was hard for him because like, I already do some of this training. And then you get here and you see it like eyes open. So him being a little like, he didn't really want to come, right? But now you see the value that's here. So he went out of his comfort zone probably because he was told to, but now he's here and he's like, okay, I like it.

1:16:05So I have someone that I want to invest into and he's receptive to it. Yeah, there's tension, and I'm sorry for that, but know that I'm not trying to do anything wrong on purpose. It just happens all the time. And I get all of that. You're absolutely right. We've talked about training. I'm a creature of habit, so I like staying around my home state within a few hours.

1:16:32I mean, we're what, 8 hours out, give or take? Yeah. So it was a big jump for me to come here, uh, be part of this giant seminar where I've got social anxiety like no tomorrow. It's part of the reason it's easy to lock me in the back of the shop and just leave me alone. Uh, I see the value in everything you do or where you're trying to get there.

1:16:55Uh, that's why I stick around. Guaranteed, over the next 6 months between now and ASTA, we're gonna have some kind of disagreement somewhere, some reason, some why. But just like the last one, we're just going to keep moving forward and figure it out. All right, good. That's pretty powerful stuff to hear, guys. Like, that's, that's the example of what I wanted to have these 2 on, because we don't— like I said at the beginning, we don't get to have very often the technician and the shop owner in the same conversation at the same time in the same interview.

1:17:24And that's why I want to bring you 2 here, because like, you're, you're an awesome friend. And I mean, like, I want to see— I want to cheer for you louder than anybody, right? I want to see you succeed. And he brags about you to me all the time, right? So I mean, I feel like you guys can really— like, we can be, we can be doing this in a year and another year and another year, and you're just going to become another face where you're going to be like his right-hand man, and I'm going to see you guys together.

1:17:49So thank you both for coming on here today with me. I know you're— I can see you're not super comfortable, but you're doing well. So though, and you know, you, I love you, so you know, we're good. Um, everybody, uh, we got their meet and greet tonight, um, from 6 to 9. Uh, I know by the time this gets released you're not gonna be able to make it there, but, um, you know, I appreciate everything that, uh, Brett bringing me here to Tools.

1:18:14And, um, make this part of your calendar for next year that you come to Tools in Hershey. I think it's going to be in Hershey going forward every year, and it's an amazing place to be. If you can't make Tools, make it on your calendar that you're going to make one of these events because it literally will change your life. So everybody, I love you.

1:18:32Thanks to all my family, my sponsors, LaunchTech USA, Promotive, you know, TechMetric, everybody. Thank you guys. Without you guys, I wouldn't be able to do what I'm doing here. So love you all. Talk to you later. Hey, if you could do me a favor real quick and like, comment on, and share this episode, I'd really appreciate it. And please, most importantly, set the podcast to automatically download every Tuesday morning.

1:19:00As always, I'd like to thank our amazing guests for their perspectives and expertise, and I hope that you'll please join us again next week on this journey of change. Thank you to my partners in the ASAR Group and to the Changing the Industry podcast. Remember what I always say, in this industry, you get what you pay for. Here's hoping everyone finds their missing 10mm, and we'll see you all again next time.