Why Repair Shops are Toxic and Why Technicians Deserve More with Greg Hilliard

0:06We need to start demanding it as techs that we're treated like, you know, maybe not doctors and lawyers, but I feel that my education and experience is worth the same amount as my sister's education. She's a friggin' lawyer. So there are problems that she can solve and has solved for me only someone with her credentials can do. And there are plenty of problems that I have solved for her that only someone with my credentials can do.

0:35So you, you were saying they, they kind of came in and bought the, the Sterling dealership and the Freightliner dealership and all Western Star all became one kind of conglomerate. Yeah, so we merged everything. It became a melting pot. Here I end up back in the same shop with the same toxic mess Yeah. And neither of them— now you got 3 shops worth of work or 3 shops worth of guys in a weird economy.

1:06It was a bad— it was a bad deal. So, so I ended up making another move, moved over to Jerry's in London, worked for them, finished my apprenticeship there. And you're either an insider or an outsider there. For a long time, I was like part of the family. I loved it there. I still to this day, I still love them. I hate them too, but it's a toxic thing.

1:33But finished my apprenticeship there. We had a great crew of guys on our shift, man. We could punch out the work. We were changing like, we do 2 EGR valves on Volvo D14s a day. Like we were rear cover jobs, clutch jobs. And they moved me up. Like they were happy to get us into the ejector cup jobs and stuff. If you worked hard there, they'd invest in you.

1:58Sent me some training and stuff. And it was, it was a great place to be for a while until you've got, you've got kids of the owner maybe in roles they weren't necessarily ready for. There's a big respect thing. You know, the, the— he was, he was one of the foremen, was, was the owner's son, and like he'd just go into your toolbox and help himself to your tools to do a quick thing.

2:27It's like, man, that's like going inside my girl's purse, man. Like you just ask, ask. The answer is yes, man, but ask, you know? And when you got a brand new $15,000 toolbox that you got two coats of wax on, it's just, you just don't, you don't go there. And that would turn into, shouting matches in the shop and the morale went pretty quickly.

2:54So I started shopping around. At this point I'm licensed, right? So like I don't need to stay in the trade necessarily. I've always got that. And that was the one thing my dad stayed on me, my folks stayed on me, see this through, get your damn ticket no matter what. If you never turn a wrench again and that ticket has opened doors, So, started fishing around, you know, kind of watching for stuff and I randomly applied for a job and it was sort of a vague description, but they were looking for a Red Seal something and I got hired.

3:29So, I interviewed, it was like a panel interview. It was for a company called Novatrax and it was north of London and the owner of the company had two businesses. He had a farm equipment implement dealership. Where he had a couple different brands, and they also built wagons, like dump wagons there. And then he had this company called Novatrax, and they were the importer and assembler.

3:54It's sort of a game they played with NAFTA. So they had a small production facility where they would build reversing fans. So these are the coolest things ever. So you'd have— you name the piece of equipment, you put it in a, in a highly messy environment and you're gonna plug your rad up. So if you're, forestry was a big one, you got feller bunchers, a machine that would cut down trees and delimit all this stuff.

4:20You got this pulp and crap in the air. Well, by 10 in the morning, you're overheating 'cause your rad's plugged right full of whatever. So this fan, great big, you know, 30-inch fan, 12 blades on it, has a piston in the middle. An airline that would go in through the center and on a timer, those blades would go 180 degrees and instead of sucking the air, it would blow the air.

4:46And if you're standing in front of that thing, you'd get coated. It was violent. It was crazy. So, and they were looking for a service tech. So I ended up being the winning bid or whatever. I, most charismatic or whatever. There was a bunch of applicants. And I went to work for them for a few years. And that was the first job where I felt like, you know, these will always matter.

5:10But it was the first time I felt like they value what I have to say and what I think. It was magic. It didn't last forever, but it was magic when I was there. And I did installations of new equipment. I would do measuring. So there'd be some new machine come out and I would go and take all the measurements. So that our engineering team could make a kit to retrofit one of these things.

5:35I would go to— these were put on at Terex ASV in Minnesota, put them on at the factory. They were an option, and some of the Case New Holland products had them as a factory option. Sorry to cut in everyone, but this is really important. As a tech, I've seen firsthand how frustrating it'd be to work in a shop bogged down by outdated systems and inefficiencies.

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6:41TechMetric isn't just managing shops, it's transforming them. Measure up by every measure with TechMetric. Hit the link in the show notes below for more. So I would, you know, here I'm like 24 and I'm taking phone calls from, you know, engineering lead of Case New Holland. It was awesome. And in our little bubble, I was the North American expert on the technical side of it.

7:07So did that. So, you know, from going to the field to, I had my own office and a computer and company cell phone and, you know, I'd be the guy on the other end of the phone. It was the first time the roles were reversed. You know, I was used to calling Eaton Fuller and arguing with them and trying to get that extra half an hour or get authorization to change a synchro or something like that.

7:29And now I'm the guy taking the call and I've got the control system. I had, you know, I had a couple, I had some props. This is pre-Zoom. You know, this is all, this is all voice and email. And I'd be, okay, I got my wiring diagram. So, okay, you're gonna take your, you know, take your test light and check for power here and check for grounds here.

7:48Okay, you need a new timer module. Send me your email or send me your mailing address. I'll send you one out. Take that one and smash it with a hammer and throw it in the garbage. You know, it's gonna be warranty or not, right? So that was really, really cool 'cause I had to, so many guys can just do this., but to try to articulate, okay, I'm on the phone and you need to be my hands.

8:12And there's a, there's a green wire going into a gray terminal strip. I want you to, it really makes you break down, break it down. And that was, that was such a cool job. What sucked, I was there a couple of years, is they had an agreement. It was, I think, a 10-year agreement with the, with the patent holder., to do manufacturing distribution in Canada.

8:38So it was North America wide. Stuff came in from Germany. And, at the end of that 10-year agreement, they, they were too far. The two parties were too far apart is the nice way of saying it. And, and our, our deal came to an end. The parent company actually opened a facility in Stratford. So another 20 minutes further from home, and they offered me basically the same position.

9:05They, they, they had hunted a few people and I hummed and hawed on that. I really wanted to go, you know, where I am now compared to that, I probably maybe, you know, hindsight, probably should have taken the job. But I was really sort of jaded and, and I was, I was offended for my employer. You know, John brought that, spent $1 million to bring that brand into North America and make them make it go.

9:39And now that was established. I kind of felt like the rug had been ripped out from under me. I wasn't privy to those, those conversations, but that's how I felt. And I go, yeah, if they're going to, if they're going to burn him, what happens when they don't need me anymore? And I still loyal to John, so I end up I turned the position down and I told John at the time, hey man, like they offered me a job.

10:04And he said, well, what are you going to do? I said, I'll let you know when I make my decision. The following Monday, I let him know. I said, no, I'm going to turn them down. He gave me a job in his implement dealership. So I did that for a little while longer. I've worked in ag a little bit on and off, just when you need a filler here and there.

10:23Yeah, not for me, man. It's, it's, um, it's not a compulsory trade. They don't— it's, it's, it's just, it's not for me. So, um, from there I went to a company called— another very close friend of mine, diver guy, got me into the company he worked for, and I was a service technician in the food tech industry, and I did that. It was more Millwright-type stuff, again traveling.

10:48And you're in your 20s, you're not married, no kids. Traveling is great. You know, I spent 220 nights a year on the road doing installs and service work. That's where a lot of my fabrication welding skills really got tuned up. Really, that really— and reading blueprints. And yeah, I did that for a few years. But two things sort of happened. One, I started I started getting cocky and wearing out my welcome and being a little more abrasive with management and engineering.

11:24More management. The engineers and I got along pretty well, but I got, I got 40-grit personality. And some people in companies with an HR department don't do well with, with 40-grit personalities. Oh, because the, the manager role is tough, right? Because the engineer role is kind of like We see it all the time. Every mechanic hates an engineer, but really the problem is just the problem, right?

11:54Whatever goofy way they build it, I'm going to figure out a way to get that part out of there. And the engineer, for whatever reason, what he was thinking or not thinking, it is the way it is. It's the manager side of things that's always like, they can't do the job and they're like, why is it taking so long? What's the problem here?

12:12To them, it looks so simple. You've got soft hands. Like, you don't even have, you know, the beginning of the— even understand how we would— Yeah, right. Here's the wrench. Yeah. Yeah. Here's the vernier. Tell me why the part doesn't fit together. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So from there, at that point, we had just moved. We just bought our dream home out in the country.

12:38We'd always wanted to, you know, always wanted to be out in the country. This is before property values went insane. And I find myself with the rug yanked out from under me and probably at least half my own doing. So I end up at a Ford dealer, actually at this Ford dealer. And they hired me to— we actually went there. I was doing some actually back a little bit in Ag because I needed a job and we had our diving charter business and I needed because I lost my company truck, which was the best tow truck for towing a boat, is your company truck if it's a company that you don't own.

13:21So I needed a truck. So we went to the Ford dealer to buy a used truck and it was a couple-year-old Super Duty truck. And I'm talking to the sales guy who happened to be the owner's son, and I'm sort of trying to— okay, what's the bottom line? They go, well, we haven't even got it in the shop and looked at it.

13:40We just took it on trade. So we don't know what it's gonna take to get through a safety. So I can't tell you what we can drop to you. I said, well, what if I just buy it the way it is and I safety it myself? He goes, well, how can you do that? I said, well, I'm a truck mechanic, you know, I can find a way to do that.

13:54And he's like, yeah, well, do you want a job? So my answer, I was, well, do I get a discount on the truck if I work here? And he goes, yes, you do. So, all right, let's do this, right? So, So I was here for a little while and it was, it was, and I was brought in to mostly do the Super Duty trucks.

14:18You know, interesting place, very, very busy dealership. Like these guys, 4 to 6 F-150s a day left this place with, you know, new, new F-150s every day. And then you got your Edges and all the other stuff that goes out there like just rocking. And people come from all over Ontario to buy cars. And it's, it's not necessarily because they're the cheapest.

14:44You know, they had— they've still got half a dozen guys every day that, that go out and get cars. Like, they'll, they'll go to you and get your car or they'll drive you, you know, drive you home. It's not the shuttle where you got to stop at 30 other places. It's that concierge valet service. They still do it, do a ripping business.

15:06So, but family owned and not without its problems. It was a dealership, but a little bit of a different dealership. The biggest issue I had there, I think at this point I'd started my own business. I was working on cars and boats in my little two-bay shop behind the house. Right. If anybody watching, if you want to build a garage, or a shop, 16-foot ceilings, at least 12 with 16-foot ceilings, violate the zoning, just do it.

15:39This shop behind her has 10-foot ceilings. I can't put a freaking hoist in it. An 8-foot door. You know, you're standing on a $35,000 chunk of concrete. 6 more feet would have cost 3 grand, but nope. So, so I'm doing, I'm doing, you know, Honda Civic clutch jobs. Transmission on my belly and jamming them in. You know, I'm not doing that stuff anymore, but I was.

16:04So I was doing that after hours and working later than I should and all that sort of stuff. But doing a bunch of that and then working at Ford dealer during the day. And there was some politics. There was this— they're in the process of building their new dealership down the road from us., and, um, we had a service writer who felt like he should be the service manager.

16:30So he was— I feel like he was undermining the service manager. Yeah, kind of, you know, like it was just like, it just, just bullshit, right? Um, that's a funny— that's a funny dynamic. I've seen that happen too, right, where I've seen the service writer, because they think they've got such a Oh, such a relationship built with a customer that they think that they— like, they're constantly telling the service manager what to do and what— and, and they're doing this wrong and they're doing that wrong.

17:00In a dealership standpoint, I'm not talking about the independent shops here, people. And, and I would watch that and I'd be like, okay, so you see it from the customer standpoint that it's a real inconvenience to them that they have to take the shuttle bus back home or something like that. The service manager is the one that's looking at the whole operating cost of the whole department.

17:19And, you know, it's where we would come into that realization that sometimes the customers that the service advisors were so worried about impressing really weren't that valuable to the bottom line. You know what I mean? I always equate it to like you'd see them come in and they give them a bottle of whiskey at Christmas time, right, to the service writer. And I'm looking at going, well, they're here every 2 months bitching about something under warranty and we can't even sell them a brake job.

17:46Like, so they come and give you a bottle of whiskey and I made no money off them. Like, what do I care if they don't come back, right? Like, not the best. That's— you, you just hit it right there. It's like, I've seen it at all levels. The truck dealerships, although they pay the tax a little differently, um, it's the same shit.

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19:03So if you're ready to work faster, diagnose better, and stay ahead of the curve, visit our website at www.launchtechusa.com. For the tech, you know, the customer brought them in for the techs. The techs are the guys that fixed their truck and got them back on the road. But we just get the crumbs, man. It's, and it's, it's, that's got to change. But you hit it on, hit it on the nail with the bottle of whiskey for the, for the, for the service writer.

19:28And maybe he's getting a little bit better deal when it, when it comes time to write up the bill. But like, you know, it's, it's, it's a mess. So Um, yeah. So you, you got to the Ford dealer. How was that a transition from what you'd been doing, like, in the, in the equipment side of things, and I, to just going to working on Super Duty Power Strokes?

19:50Like, did you— was there a learning curve there, or did you just kind of take it to the fish to water and just— it's, it's, it's a learning curve, especially going to, you know, a highway truck where you flip the hood open and they're not— they aren't like they used to be, but all intents and purpose, you flip the hood open and there's the alternator, right?

20:10Yeah. Super Duty truck with a 6.4, the alternator ain't there. It's like, damn, you know, your inner fenders at least, you are pissed off doing an alternator on a Super Duty truck. It's ridiculous. I had a great mentor there, John Mills. He'd been with the company like 25 years. He's actually left. He's up in a diamond mine or a gold mine way, way up north doing fleet stuff.

20:35Okay. Just recently, first, second job he's ever had. Really neat guy. This guy is so patient and he would just, all right, Greg, step by step, do this, this and this. Don't do this. Don't do this. But don't put an impact on those cab bolts. You're going to regret that. You'll spin the thing if you did it John's way. He had the secret sauce for all this stuff and it didn't take long to catch on.

21:00You, you do, you pull a cab off of two of them and now you got all the, you got the cheat codes. Yeah. So it didn't take long, but you know, I think the first 6.4 that I did, it was a trade-in truck. You know, it had been DPF delete, DPF gutted. They, they, the sales guy or the, yeah, the sales guy got, yep, it looks pretty from the hot, you know, from the road.

21:24Way overpaid for it, and then they resold it, and it comes back with both turbos, uh, rocker arms need to be done, the, the, um, the updated, uh, harnesses, DPF, and like, and I end up— I, we bent a pin putting the, putting the harness back on the, um, back on the ECM, so I got this phantom check engine light. Like, that truck that was the first cab off and man, it kicked my ass.

21:55It was, I think that cab was off 3 times before it was finally right. The sales guy, you know, the sales guy said he's got to take a mortgage out to pay the fricking service bill after that. But you'll learn, like I've got a policy on those Super Duties is anything I did for the most part, anything I disconnect is hard to get at.

22:14You're getting a new one, you're getting a new fan belt. Or new serpentine belt because it's right here right now. You're getting new upper and lower rad hoses because I've seen them pop off or leak after. They're real easy to change right now. You know, any of that wear stuff, we're doing it. If you don't want to do it, you know, especially now it's my shop, you don't want to do it, no problem.

22:34Yeah, I'll call the wrecker right now, they'll tow it down to the Ford dealer and they'll tell you the same thing, but I'm not dealing with the comeback. So, so I got enough time in there and then I did that long enough. I really butted heads with that, that service writer and I actually walked out when he just got mouthy with me and I just— there's a line, right?

23:01I have a Hutch on my toolbox. They're the best thing ever because all you got to do, no matter how bad your day is, pull that thing. I'm going home. Turned the lock, grabbed my lunch pail, walked out. The next time I was there was to get my toolbox. I worked on compressors for a while doing mobile service on Sol-Aire units. That was really neat.

23:22That was— it's a dealership. It's the same thing. I think my message here is the corporate bullshit is going to find you no matter where you go. Yeah. You know, So work for an outfit that, that basically owns the compressor market in Canada, or the majority of the compressor, um, the specific brand anyways, dealerships. Uh, did that for a few years on the road a lot.

23:47Uh, we're, we're not far from Sarnia, which is the chemical— they call it the Chemical Valley. So I had to do a bunch of special training so I could go into those plants and service their air compressors. We're talking, um, screw compressors, so they look like connection again style superchargers. So service that stuff for a while. All the same— oh, did we crash?

24:08It came back. It glitched there first. Yeah. Okay. All the same time, you know, I would get off work and I would go work in my own shop for what's starting to become a growing, you know, a growing concern. So it all kind of came to head right before I went out on my own. I kind of— we've been sort of talking about, about going out on my own for a few years.

24:33And my wife said, like, you're not getting any younger. You're bitching about who you're working for. You know, you need to— if you're going to do it, let's go. Let's do it right. Or don't. Right. But shut up either way. So the kind of the last straw was around Christmas time. I went to— went to our boss. So our branch reported to Toronto and our boss was in Toronto.

24:56So I was in Toronto for one of those stupid safety meeting, Monday morning safety meetings. We drive, we'd have to drive through a snowstorm to go to a safety meeting. So we'd have a meeting with the boss and say like, dude, it's time to talk about some more money, right? And if there's any managers listening right now, I'm going to translate this for you because you don't speak technician.

25:18If a tech comes to you and says, hey man, it's time to talk about a little bit more money, what he's really doing is he is holding you upside down by your feet and shaking you for everything you got.. And if you don't give him what he is worth to your business, they're going to leave. Right. That's what I am saying, man.

25:38I'm saying nicely, hey, man, it's time to talk about more money. What I'm really saying is you need to get your checkbook out or I'm putting my tools on a truck. That's what I've got. Yeah, I've got another offer. Or, you know, it's time to cut bait and fish and I'm going to go start looking. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, they— couple of weeks go by and they give me a dollar an hour, a frickin' dollar an hour.

26:01So, and that was— I drove— I'm driving home from Toronto. I'm on the phone with the wife and I'm like, we are actively now looking for a shop. I'm— I am going out on my own. It's just a matter of when. So we hunted around. I found a shop in Petrolia. And, uh, negotiated the lease on it. And it was a bit of a tense negotiation, but we got it done.

26:27And I, I wanted to have a signed lease before I put in my notice because it's kind of like I am on the hook for a 2-year lease of this building. There is— it's, it's Cortés burned his ships when he reached the New World. I cannot turn back no matter what these guys tell me or offer me. There is no turning back.

26:46So signed a lease, turned in my notice. And the cool thing is when we go into the plant, a lot of times when we were doing the service work on the compressors, you have no cell coverage. So, which is great because if you don't want to answer your boss, you're just in the plant. So I turned in, I went into the shop early in the morning, threw a letter on the boss's desk.

27:11And then I headed to the plant and turned my phone off for the day, right? It's like, just let that marinate, you know? So about 3 in the afternoon, I come out of the plant, turn my phone on to like 16 voicemails and emails and the friggin' owner of the company, everybody's like, you know, so call the boss in Toronto. He's the first call.

27:33He's like, man, what's going on? Like, he's not mad. He knew I was in the plant, right? So he's not mad about it. He's like, what's going on? Dude, I've got another opportunity I'm going to pursue. You know, it's been a slice. Well, you know, I'm going to come down. I'm going to come down tomorrow and take you out for breakfast. We're going to talk about this.

27:50You can take me out for breakfast. Sure. So we go out for breakfast the next morning. I order the most expensive thing on the menu, you know, and he's, you know, he's like, come on, Greg, man, what's it going to take? What do we got to do? You name it. You know, we're going to do it. I said, I said, man, we had this conversation 2 months ago and you had a dollar, right?

28:14Yeah, that was all you had. So I said, you know, this isn't me putting a— this isn't give me more money or I'll leave. This is I'm leaving, you know. So I find it really sad that I had to walk to the edge of the point, the edge of the cliff to finally get you off your wallet. And I said, I knew you guys were going to do this, so I've made commitments that I can't turn back from, right?

28:38Like, it'll cost me $100 grand to say no. So, so the answer is no, man. Thank you for breakfast. Um, you know, I'm gonna work for the next 2 weeks unless, unless you want to walk me out right now, which would be really great because I got, I got a lot of— I got like 6 months worth of work to do in getting this shop ready, you know.

29:00So, but it's just, that's that like corporate, like just blind, right? Like you can't say you didn't see this coming. So what, what do you think when we, when we see in the channels that we kind of hang out in and everybody talks about the numbers and everything, right? And the number has to exactly be this or else, you know, your profits are not that.

29:26I'm not the guy that understands that at the level that a coach or a trainer or a business person does, right? But to me, it's always been very simple. It's just a situation of like— and again, can you always find another technician? Well, I think they used to think that a lot, Greg, and now I think we're in a situation where we're at where it's like, you've got somebody coming to you and saying like, listen, I need more money.

29:54And, you know, you can talk all they want about, well, you're not really worth all that because, you know, you can't do this and you can't do that. But I mean, we're talking with you about a guy that's getting all the work done that they need done right there. It's not a situation of you're saying to them, I only want to do this, you know, because that's how I look the most productive, or I don't want to touch that.

30:13Like, he did everything that you're given to do. But the reality is, is when somebody comes to you and says, like, "Hey, we need to talk money," what they're really saying is it's like, "I don't feel like my compensation matches my value to you." And that's the most polite way I can think to say it. And what that means is that you can tell them they're great, but at the end of the day, they're past the point of having the conversation about how great I am.

30:43We're now up to the What's the compensation need to be and look at? And if you blow them off, you might as well sign their termination papers. Don't wait for them to quit, fire them, because they are going to become toxic and they're going to quit. And, and then, you know, you— okay, so you don't pay them severance, they quit, whatever, but you're stuck with your pants down trying to find somebody to replace this person.

31:09You're losing profits because you're not getting work done. Are you really saving money by not having a conversation and giving them what they want? I don't want to see anybody be like, "Okay, bend over a barrel and grab your ankles." But the very real reality is listen to what they have to say. And yeah, sometimes you just got to get off your wallet, pay the bill.

31:33And negotiate and say, "Greg, yeah, you want more money. This is what we need from you. We want you to invest in yourself and do these courses or or take on additional— more money, more responsibility. Okay, let's— at least, at least we're negotiating, right? Um, we're gonna give you an apprentice and you're gonna, you know, have to train the young person from the company.

31:53Or we're going to give you a cell phone and you might have to take a couple, you know, service calls, like service questions from our other people that are struggling because you're a senior, whatever. Those are very real things that I think some people would be like, okay, I'm going to take the money, but, and I'm going to understand that this is partially, you know, now a responsibility that comes along with it.

32:16You know, it's, it's, I liken it to like this. You can say, okay, you want more money? I want you then to get some ASEs. Okay, cool. All right. You know, but we don't even say that in this industry. We just always go back to, I need you to produce more hours before I can give you more money. Like, We, as we age, we don't produce more hours.

32:35We tend to produce less. And as the technology, as we were just having this conversation before I got on, initial diag used to be like you walked out and you hit it with a hammer and it smoothed out and it started to work again. Your diag was done. Now you walk out, you hit it with your hammer, it has no effect at all, and the clock is still ticking.

32:56So you're gathering evidence, you're scanning, you're checking for TSBs, you're checking Identifix, you're checking Google, you're talking to a friend, you're doing and whatever. That's just the first hour. And now everybody's like, but I told the customer, you know, they've got an hour of diag. Well, an hour of diag is an hour of diag. An hour is not— an hour diag doesn't mean an hour and it'll be promised result or promised answer or promised, you know, it's an hour of diag, it's an hour of testing, it's an hour of gathering evidence.

33:27And we need to like really start to, you know, not hold the customer's feet to the fire, but have the conversation that like this stuff takes longer to solve than it ever did. And, you know, the hour thing doesn't, doesn't line up anymore. That's just gathering. That's just a plan of attack the first hour, you know. Well, is the average car more complicated, more complex than the human body?

33:54And if— sure, I would argue that it is. And you look at how many steps it you go through to get a simple diagnosis on, on any ailment, right? And nobody ever questions— no one questions a medical bill, you know. Um, I, I think when it comes back to compensation, a couple things, tools that we as techs need to have is you need to know what your shop labor rate is.

34:19And a lot of techs don't know that, and a lot of shops don't want them to know that, right? Yeah. And they need to know On the truck side, they did a pretty good job. Most of the shops I were at of tracking our bay efficiency and our target was always 75 to 80% because you take 2 breaks a day. We're gonna have some admin time, right?

34:39And 80%, you know, 80% of 2,200 hours a year is a lot of fricking money, right? Yeah. At the door rate. So you go, okay, if I build $250,000 and that doesn't count a single part that I put on at a 30 to 100% margin. Um, yeah, the parts guy didn't sell the part, I did, right? Um, I built $250 grand, $220 grand in labor last year, and this is in 2011, right?

35:11And you paid me $50,000 or $60,000. There's meat on that bone still for me. I'm not saying I should get all of it or half of it, but Yeah, you know, in those days it was kind of a given thing, was a third, a third, a third, right? So if the shop made $200 grand, you were getting $65, $70, you know, um, and that has drifted.

35:31I, I've got a, I've got an invoice here from a shop in Gainesville, Florida. They charge $1,579 to put a brake caliper on a pickup truck. You can't justify that. Like, like, yeah, you know, and, and I bet you they didn't pay the technician all that time. I, I would, I would, I know it in my bones they didn't. So, um, I think that's a big thing is knowing what we, knowing what we build is a really big tool, and the shops need to start being transparent about it.

36:03Um, this, this customer paid the bill, so it shows that people will pay it. Um, I think the service writers need to be a little more transparent with. But that, that whole— we could, we could do a case study on this one, on this one build that's on my desk. But, um, knowing what we build and knowing, like, knowing where we land efficiency-wise, or whatever you want to say, it is a, is a big one.

36:30And then I think the dealer's got to start finding efficiencies in their organization and not taking it out on the tech, right? Yeah. You know, maybe the floors in the front office don't need to be that nice. You know, maybe your management team, your upper management team needs to take a little bit less. We need to start demanding it as techs that we're treated like, you know, maybe not doctors or lawyers, but I feel that my education and experience is worth the same amount as my sister's education.

37:01You know, she's a friggin' lawyer. So, There, there are problems that she can solve and has solved for me that only someone with her credentials can do. And there are plenty of problems that I have solved for her that only someone with my credentials can do. In Canada, specifically Ontario, because we have a, because we have a license, we do have them over a barrel a little bit.

37:25So there's a Chrysler dealer outside of Petrolia. I think they finally have a licensed guy, but for a little while they didn't. They had to send their cars to a sister dealership to get PDI'd, you know, so they could put a license plate on. Yeah. Like, it's not stupid when you think about the dealership, the amount of money that it's earned and the amount of money that it can make and the amount of potential for earning that's there.

37:51And they can't retain one friggin' licensed mechanic in the province of Ontario. That's there's such a red flag there that they're obviously like, it's got to be the most mismanaged, effed up, poor process place that anybody can think of. Because like that, you could go find a 50-year-old mechanic like myself with a license, be like, we just need you to show up here and do these PDIs so we can get the cars done.

38:17If you can't even do that, you're either like got such a toxic culture that nobody— or you just won't friggin pay. And if it's a dying dead horse, Just put the flag over it, put the tombstone on and say the business is dead and lock the doors, right? But they don't. And it's like, well, maybe we can get somebody in here stupid enough to do this job and, and have all the shit piled on them and pay them so little.

38:43Like, there's so many things. The conversation that came up a couple weeks ago is like, you know, technicians' inefficiencies. And it's like, why do we have techs standing at the parts counter waiting for a $4 oil filter? Why do we have them standing there waiting for— to, to get tires from that were delivered that morning there and carry them over to the tire machine, but we don't know where they are because they still haven't been carried in?

39:07Like, they should already be at the flipping tire machine. And that is a service manager's job, to look at the entire process and say, where are my bottlenecks? You know, if it's, if it's guys standing at the parts counter waiting for oil filters, if it's You know, I don't think a technician should be filling out an oil change sticker. One, we got greasy fingers and terrible penmanship.

39:29I could write you a prescription for anything and it would go through a pharmacy. That's how bad my penmanship is, right? So, but a service writer, they had to go talk to the customer, get the mileage, get all that stuff. They should know what flavor of oil it takes. So it's nothing for them to scribble out the oil change sticker, which a pet peeve of mine.

39:47I see it all the time. Jump in a customer's car that had an oil change at XYZ Shop and it'll say your next oil change is due, it'll say 58,000 kilometers, like exactly. So you're telling me that car came into the shop at 52,000 on the button, right? I doubt it. It doesn't say what flavor of oil, it doesn't say the date.

40:09If we're going to be professionals, we need to hold ourselves to a higher standard and fill all that stuff out. You know, make that— that's what the customer sees. They go, my impression is that guy couldn't even add $6,000 to $52,625. Yeah, he couldn't tell me the date, he couldn't tell me what kind of oil is— like, what kind of a job did he do of the oil change, you know?

40:30Yeah, we, we tell people to check their oil and add oil if it needs it, but we don't— like, they don't know what grade of oil, what oil to buy. When we send them out of there after an oil change, like, so you can remember being in truck shop, and I do too, we'd service a rig and all those trucks either leaked oil or burned oil or both, right?

40:48And the, the old truck driver, God love them, I miss them, they'd fill up 4 Rotella jugs, right? They don't fill up the boot, 2 or 3. Here, top these up while you're at it. Yep. And bunk, right? And that was what he was putting in between the services. Like, we think about that. You want to move oil people in your shops and you want to move your fluids or whatever, like, I guess the air filter margins aren't very good, like, let's sell some more oil.

41:16How do we do that? Well, if you got a car that's burning oil or leaking oil, sell them 2 flipping liters of oil and tell them this is how you put it in, this is what you put in, right? This is where the dipstick is. Here's a complimentary rag that we picked up off the floor and threw in the trunk for you.

41:32Like, tell them to do that. You want to move a couple more liters? Well, do shit like that. Serve your customer, but we can't even bother to tell them all. Because here's the thing, if they pull over and they get gas and they go, I wonder, I should check it, but I have no oil in there and I wouldn't even know what kind because not every oil cap, right, says what to pour in, and how do I buy it and whatever, like what am I going to pay here, they're just not going to flip and do it, you know.

41:57And we, we're supposed to be advocating for them and there's so many things we could be doing for the customer. Like you said, the oil change sticker, I, it's back to my wheel lock key thing, right? Like, advisors should be like finding the wheel lock key, printing the new oil change sticker. It should be on the invoice when it— when they get dispatched the job, there's the new sticker to go in.

42:16Don't make them walk across the shop to the one sticker machine that sometimes works. Like, have it printed and stapled to the work order when they get it, and then it's done. Then, then you can't say, oh, the technician forgot to put it in the window. Like, the customer comes comes back the next day, the sticker's not there. And, and the advisor's like, these dumb mechanics.

42:35And it's like, holy frig, like, what were you doing, like, playing Candy Crush on your phone? Like, I know that's— I get a lot of flack for how I talk about service writers here, but the reality is, is like, they're the first to throw the technician under the bus. But the very real reality is they don't sell squat. Service advisors don't sell squat in the sense of a product.

42:56They don't have a product to sell. The technician's ability is the product they sell, yet they're always saying they are where, well, they're the ones that screwed up the car. Like, I just, I'm over it. Done, done hearing it. I'd really like to see the techs treated, treat the whole process more like, I'm gonna say a dentist office, right? When I go into the dentist, I see a nurse or whatever.

43:20They go and they check, you know, paperwork, blah, blah, blah, blah. They have a quick look under the hood. And then the— they call it not a technologist, the person that cleans your teeth, hygienist, will come in and they do all that. And then 45 minutes later, the dentist comes in with his Rolex, looks around in there, scrapes with a little pick or whatever, and gives you a bill for $500 and walks out the door because that's all he had to do, right?

43:43His expertise was completely focused. And he might be able to see 20 clients an hour because all of the busy work has been done by people that don't require a quarter million dollar education. So I'd love to see, you know, let's, let's keep the techs doing the tech stuff. Um, you know, I've been— because I'm out of the dealership, I don't see the trends.

44:09Uh, but you talked about these DVIs, which one of the things I want to look at in the future is some kind of system where I can interact with my customers virtually like that. Hey, I'm gonna do a walk around your and you can have a little bit of personality, I think would be really cool. The danger for the dealerships is they will start becoming attached to the technician, not attached to the service writer, not necessarily attached to that dealership.

44:35So a great example at Jerry's, there was a guy there on the other shift. He was the rock star that kept that other shift running. His name was Derek. And there's a customer with a truck, with a Sterling truck. And he would come in and say, my truck needs a clutch adjustment. Is Derek in today? No, he's on afternoons. Okay, I'll come back after 5.

44:54You know, well, yeah, Greg can adjust your clutch. Nope, only Derek adjusts my clutch. He knows how I like it. So one day I asked him like, Derek, what do you do that's so special? It's a fricking, you know, half-inch drill bit. He's like, I adjust the clutch to spec. I'm like, yeah, that's what I do too. He's like, Pete likes it adjusted to spec and he thinks I do something magic.

45:13When Derek left that shop, all of Pete's work followed. This guy called every truck dealership and service facility in like a 10-mile radius till they found— is Derek work there? Nope. Does Derek work there? Nope. Found Derek. To this day, that truck— Derek works on that truck. So that, that's a— it's— I, I see where the DBI thing's going. Yeah. But, you know, I like Greg's style.

45:42You know, he's abrasive, but he, you know, I, you know, I always feel special when I get my car because Greg worked on it, you know. And that's the— that's— I, I see it happening too, because like I see there's more and more guys on TikTok and they're showing their DVI process and, and literally like the video is, is going from that tablet that they're filming to the customer's tablet or phone or whatever, opening up their laptop at work, and they're clicking yes.

46:12Right now, all the financials and the logistics of the repair is handled by the advisor who tells them, well, does all the tabulations and the adding and calculates it and all this kind of stuff. But the reality is, is that forward-facing now is more now with the technician than it is with the service writer, because she might have dropped it off in the night drop box.

46:34She's never even spoke to a service advisor. And now through a TechMetric program or something like that, they get an estimate tabled to them plus a DVI video that has a person on the video. Well, of course they're gonna— if the car is finally fixed the way they like it, they're gonna come back and go, um, you know, Curtis, my technician here at the dealer last time, I really like the DVI processes, it was great.

47:00I want Curtis to fix my car this time. And that's where we're now— they don't like it, but when people get on there and they say, well, I can replace a service writer with AI, or I can replace a service writer with a kiosk, they're not that far off in the sense that it could get to there. Because if the DVI is really effective, and it's been proven that it is, and it's what customers really like, they want to see the DVI, they want to see, and they want to have faith in the person that's filming their car and showing them what it needs.

47:28The person that we used to, you know, would go around the car with them and look at their tire tread and try and make the pitch in the drive-through, that's not happening as much anymore, right? Um, so it is entirely possible that we are going to replace or phase out some service writers, not them all, but certainly we'll probably be able to operate with less because that person will be like maybe tabling 10 work orders that all got submitted from a DVI and they're, they're calculating and running it through the program and then they're hitting forward to the customer.

48:01But that forward-facing person, that their identity with the repair shop will be the technician. And you can't tell me that, that something like ChatGPT, if you gave it the credentials to get into your dealership's, um, labor, labor room tables and parts lookup, say, ChatGPT, this is the VIN of my Aerostar van, it needs a 4-wheel brake job, 2 upper ball joints, and a catalytic converter.

48:27And as fast as you can say it, it'll start spitting out the part numbers. It'll probably print a pit ticket for the parts guy. So, Greg, I don't doubt that that's coming. You wouldn't believe how many shop owners already know Greg that use it to build their canned jobs. So yeah, they literally— like, uh, another guy I know, Kevin, he says, yeah, um, whatever, 2022 Chevy Silverado, 4-corner brake job.

48:50Right? Pads, calipers, rotors. ChatGPT, you know, build that estimate for me. And it'll spit it back in a minute going, you know, price availability of parts is this, labor breakdown is this, total cost is this. Would you like me to get started on that today? That's literally how it answers back. Like, it is so smart that it can build the canned job and it can— it never forgets it.

49:12It can remember it from like Chevy 2022 versus 2026. If there's a part number difference, it knows it. It's, it's incredible. Like, yes, it is going to completely revolutionize the way we do this business, whether we like it or not. Here's what's going to change— stay the same, excuse me. The technician out in the bay that's going to put the parts on is going to be the same type of technician.

49:36It'll always be that way. It's just the— and I think that's, that's where it's like, we talk about culture and we talk about leadership and all that kind of stuff. The type of person that has that knack, that ability to bolt parts on and get the car solved, is not going to change a whole lot. It's going to be the same type of personality.

49:58So we should stop trying to reinvent the wheel and change their personalities, and I think learn how to value them and, and work with them instead of always been working against. Because I know It sounds tired, but I mean, because for as long as I've come up in this industry, it's always been an us versus them feel to it. And it shouldn't be that way.

50:21And everyone's like, "It shouldn't be that way. You're right." No, but it's at such a rooted core that it's like that, that if we want to break it, you're going to have to break and it's going to be you in management's going to have to recede because they're not going to change. The type of person you need won't change. You'll need that A-type personality in the back that can fix the car.

50:41So you might as well learn how to lead them and change the culture so that they feel at the end of the day like they don't hate this job and they don't hate this industry. You know, I went through it. It's, you know, we're not going to have time to get into everything, but it's— I think my message is that it's being out on your own is This is my dream.

51:07I'm in my dream shop. It is also my own nightmare. Absolutely. You know, but a few, a few takeaways of it. The first takeaway is when I moved from my shop behind my house where I had an established group of customers, my labor rate doubled because, you know, a shop behind the house, I was too cheap, but I was making twice. I was making twice an hour in my backyard as I was working for the man.

51:34So I thought I was making bank. It was still half of what the standard labor rate was. So when you're going on your own and you've got a, you know, $1,000 a month in insurance and $5,000 a month, you know, probably $5,000 or $6,000 a month overhead, all of a sudden your labor rate, it's got to be— it's right in line with everybody else.

51:52Yeah. Labor rate doubled. Do you know how many customers— I probably had 50 customers. Do you know how many customers complained about my labor rate changing? One. Only one. What do you, you know, so the message was, well, shit, I should have been charging this labor rate and working in my garage and just stay there. I'd have been better off. So that proves that customers will pay if they perceive that you're giving them value.

52:19Service writers are so bad at communicating the value of what the technician did. And the extra things that we did. And I am not saying to charge for stuff that we didn't do, but right, if the technician went an extra mile, if a technician got out a broken bolt, make sure we charge them for it, but also make sure we tell them, right?

52:41Instead of just saying, you know, $1,500 fixed brakes. Well, no, no, no, no, you really like— it doesn't have to be a Tom Sawyer novel, but, but You know, buffed the insides of the rims, buffed off the, you know, the surfaces of the wheel hubs before the— tell them that, you know what I mean? This is what we do that makes our work special.

53:05Communicating that. Yeah, we could go down. I had a bunch of stuff that we didn't even get to tonight, but it's you gotta— there's only so many hours of the day, and it still is a thing that I struggle with. You got to go home at some point. You know, if it's Tuesday and you haven't made any money and it's 7 o'clock, you, you ain't gonna fix the day.

53:34You know, that day is— that day is, is a lost cause. Go home and see your family, see your kids. Um, that's probably my, my, my, my biggest regret in this is that The sacrifice, uh, the family sacrifice is, is exponentially higher than I anticipated. Yeah. Um, don't get into something that you can't— I say don't get into something you can't do on your own.

54:00So every time I've had to count on people, I found myself let down because I can do it myself and carry it. We are not getting rich. If I had two techs in there banging out 80 hours a week, I would be wealthy. Um, but I can make it on my own. If, if you're counting on somebody else, you better have really, really, really good people that you can count on, and you better pay them because you need them.

54:27You, you need them more than the, than the dealer down the street. You're gonna have to pay them what they're worth to you because, you know, um Those are kind of the takeaways. And, and the other thing is— yeah, go ahead. What's, what's the obstacle right now for you staying as a one-man shop? Like, just there's no— I don't think that we can afford to pay a tech.

54:58I can't provide benefits, and the volume of work the type of work that a normal tech would want. You know, we're doing a transom and a floor on a boat one day, and then we're doing a brake job on a Honda the next day, and then we're doing a cab off on a Super Duty. And finding someone that could do all those things, or finding an apprentice, I'm just frustrated to all hell with that.

55:25But that's really a thing. I've also got other challenges where I get pulled away. I, you know, our vision was we have 3 guys in here. Maybe someday that'll come true, but I don't think the industry's there. So we're kind of, how do we pivot? I think the growth in our business is I'm kind of at capacity on service is I want to grow into other avenues.

55:50I'm going to look at doing, I'm going to look at getting a dealer license and refurbishing the odd used car. You know, if I had 2 or 3 minivans here through the winter, because it always gets slow in January, be a great time to throw wheel bearings and struts in a minivan and put it back out front. If you don't get double your money on it, even if you can recover your labor rate when you're slow, it's not gonna pay in January, but when it sells in March, you can pay the credit card off or whatever.

56:21It's an interesting It's a tough one. So do you have a succession plan for yourself and the business, or do you just kind of think that when you decide to kind of shut the doors and lock the key for the last time, you'll be able to walk away from it? Because what it sounds like to me, Greg, is it'd be hard to find somebody to be able to walk in and do what you want done because your range of talents is not It took a lifetime to build that.

56:51You know what I mean? And then for somebody to come in and you could get a boat guy and you could get an apprentice for trucks, but it's going to be very hard to get one person to do all three. That's the trick. And this is sort of the ugly of it. And I don't want to paint it as me as a success story, I am a survival story, maybe.

57:19And 5 years from now, I hope that it is a success story. I'm too stubborn to let this fail. But the succession plan as we see it is I'm going to earn a living. We bought— this is a piece of real estate that is in our name. You know, we have about, you know, 75 more years and we'll have the damn thing paid for.

57:37It's on the Never Never Plan. And at that point, you know, The thought is we'll either put a renter, some other business can use this facility either as a shop or as an HVAC warehouse or who knows, a nail salon. I don't know. It's a piece of real estate. That is my retirement plan. I don't make what your average technician, I don't take in a wage what your average technician dealership is going to make even flat rate.

58:11But I'm making a payment every month that is building wealth, is putting equity in this building. That's our retirement plan, you know. So the succession plan is, you know, I'd love to have someone take it over and become, you know, become our tenant. I would literally— if it's— if a guy came and worked for me for 10 years and then I'm ready to retire, 15 years and I'm ready to retire, I'll give you the tire machine and the hoist and the whatever.

58:37You just sign a lease on the building, pay me rent. I, you know, what's a 20-year-old or 15-year-old hoist gonna be worth, right? So you can have that. You can have the customers, you know. I'd love to see it. I don't know. A lot could change. You know, a real estate developer could come around the corner next week and offer to write me a check and If there's enough zeros on it, everything's for sale.

59:02So, um, you're the first person I've heard that's said, was frank enough to say with themselves that they're not a success story, they're a survival story. And, you know, we talk a lot in the industry about how some people manage to buy themselves a job, and, you know, certain segments of the industries talk on that like it's a bad thing. And it's a— and it's a— but I think you're one of them that, like, your days of being able to work for somebody else are done.

59:34You're not— you're unemployable, as David Roman says. Absolutely. I don't think that necessarily, like, striking out on your own and getting yourself set up to where you make all the— all the money, you take all the risk, you take all the liability, and at the end of the year you don't really take home any more than what that you would've, but working for somebody else.

59:54That mental health that I'm not going home frustrated with being devalued or feeling a certain way because of how they make me feel, there's value to that. Now, you take on a whole lot of other stress, like when we started talking about, you never turn it off, you wake up in the middle of the night and you're thinking, where is that ground splice?

1:00:13And all that kind of jazz. But you can't put a dollar value on that. This is mine and I feel free here. You know what I mean? I can, I can go stand in the corner and pick my nose. It's my business. I can do that. You know, I can leave that rag, you know, on the bench and like, I don't— if I don't sweep my bay, it's mine.

1:00:34You know, there's value. I can pick who I'm going to work for. And we are— if I had 3 techs, I can't be picky as I am right now. 'Cause I am, from the day I went out on my own, I have never had an empty bay ever. Like typically every bay in the shop, a lot of times we're waiting for parts and stuff, but I've never had a day where I walk out the door going, I don't know what I'm gonna do tomorrow.

1:00:59So I'm learning to charge. I don't wanna say charge more for it. That's not the right, I'm learning to charge and bill accurately. I'm learning to, you know, earlier you would underest— I don't even say underestimate a job. Quote a lot tighter because you really needed the work or felt you did. Now it's a take it or leave it. And if you're going to push me around, you're going to come in here and push my buttons.

1:01:25You— I won't have you back. I'll just, you know, you'll call for an appointment and I'll give you an appointment in November, you know. Oh, you're that busy? Yep. You know, like, they'll get the message. Last one was— and this was actually Larry Grogan, the guy we bought the building from, told me this. He says, you're going to have people are going to come and push you and they're going to say they're going to, they're going to promise you the world, right?

1:01:51And I had this a month ago. I had a diesel truck in for a safety inspection. And this is one of the few things in the industry where we hold the cards. I'm holding this damn thing right here. You know, the stupid thing that doesn't have the passwords written on the back. That's right. And, uh, um, I'm holding that thing, right? I'm the one that's got to scribble my name on it and put a yellow sticker on this truck.

1:02:19There's nothing, you know, the days of the hot safeties are over. I've always said, I don't want to— why do I want to take a bribe from you? I would rather you just pay me to fix your truck. Um, right. But in this case, truck's on the hoist, wheels are off, it needs a four-wheel brake job, ball joint, and a set of headlights.

1:02:34Headlights look like a bathroom window, right? So quote it, it's going to be $2,500, totally reasonable. That includes the inspection. And he goes, well, can you do it for $2,000? I'm going, I can do it for $2,475.63. You know, like, like that's what I can do it for. Said, if I can maybe get you cheaper rotors, but you know, I might save $100 here or there, but that's what it's for.

1:03:00Well, I've got like 5 other trucks that I gotta bring you for safeties. Or if you could do this for this one, it's like, I'm like, and my exact, the words weren't out of his mouth and they said, you're gonna bring me 5 more trucks and you're gonna beat me up on the price of those too. I said, I don't want 'em.

1:03:14I don't want 'em. Right. That's right. So yeah, he said, go ahead and fix that one. I've never seen him again. You know what? He can go beat up my competition. And you know what? The competition around here is competent. They aren't gonna tolerate it either. So you need a yellow sticker on your truck, you're gonna pay what it costs. And it wasn't like I'm, not like I was exploiting them, you know?

1:03:35So, but we're at a dealership or when you work for the, you know, you work for somebody, you can't tell a customer where to go, right? So, you know. Yeah. Yeah, you're the one put under the microscope and you looked at your production when it was like we took in something that we had no business touched for what we quoted, but it's the production sucks because it just took too long.

1:04:01And who do you blame when it took too long? Well, you blame the technician. They must have been slow or they must not know what they're doing. And that's where I'll die on that hill of there's more to why it took too long and why it didn't go right than just the technician ability. And if we lose our shirt on a job, The dealer's got to take, or the shop owner has got to take the hit, you know, because if, if, you know, we get into something, sometimes it's something so stupid and we learn from it.

1:04:34Well, guess what? The next time we see that, we're a better— you now have a better technician, a more valuable technician. You don't have to pay him more an hour today because he learned something the hard way, and the best lessons are learned the hard way. So, yep. Pay him for his day, right, where he feels worthless because he friggin spent all day trying to chase something that was so— sometimes it's so obvious when we— the eureka moment.

1:04:59I've been paying for his day, you know, you know, and when I've had people work for me, that apprentices make mistakes and more than one occasion say, I'll just clock out and fix it. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you're going to, you're going to fix it. I'm going to pay you to fix it. You're my— you're mine.

1:05:17I'm going to— but I'm going to pay you. You screwed it up on my dime. You're going to fix it on my dime. I owe you that at the very least, right? So none of us should get out of bed. This as a business owner, I guess maybe it's different. There have been days where by lunchtime I'm going, if I'd have stayed in bed, I'd be a richer man, you know?

1:05:34Yeah. Broke an impact gun today, right? You break— you break a $600 impact gun. The rest of your week is a write-off. But none of us in any business, whether you're working at Walmart or working as a technician, should be worse off for having worked a hard day, a full day. And it's criminal otherwise. It's criminal. It's gotta stop. Yeah, I agree.

1:06:01Well, touching on the family thing, I don't want to keep you away from yours any longer. It's been a long day and I know you— Yeah, I just got a text. I just got a text from the wife. She ran over a vehicle, like a car mat with the lawnmower. So I got to go pick that out of the blades when I get home.

1:06:18Good luck scuba diving this weekend. Thank you. Safe trip to Ohio for that. I'll definitely check back in with you, Greg, in a few months, 6 months to a year or something like that. See how it's going, see what's changed, see if anything's changed., you know, all that kind of stuff. And, um, reach out to my people in my circle about, you know, how they run their shop.

1:06:40I'm not saying anything you're doing anything wrong. I'm not trying to say that. Oh, I, I'll take all the advice. It doesn't cost you anything to listen. Um, and Jeff, thank you, thank you for, for giving us techs a bit of an outlet, you know, listening, you know, just being at work with these things in my ears and listening to, to the plight of, of, you know, sometimes we feel alone I appreciate you giving us an outlet.

1:07:03Sometimes just being able to talk about this is very valuable. I don't want anybody to feel alone, you know, and we keep touching on it and we have to touch on it. The mental health side of this industry has got to improve. And that's the whole thing. Like, I can talk all we want about pay plans and pay methods and valuing technicians.

1:07:24The mental health thing has just got to improve. It's just, there's no two ways about it. Ways about it, you know. And, and then, and if I'm responsible— yeah, the mental health is, it's in a lot of cases, it's a product of the environment that, that we're, we're trapped in, you know. And when you, when a guy, when typically a guy, let's just say, um, we're very, very proud and, and we're programmed to fix stuff, you know.

1:07:52But we don't know how these things work and we don't know how to fix these things. It's— it's— and you work all day and you work really hard and you put, you know, you put your blood into the damn thing and then you don't get paid for it. Yeah. You know, you— we can't keep doing that. And that maybe it's going to take some sort of a watershed moment or a watershed legal action against the industry, uh, this, the stakeholders of this industry to fix this.

1:08:26But they have, they have, they have, they've— this has always been a thing, but it's just the greed has just narrowed and narrowed and narrowed to where people aren't seeing a way out. And, and the chickens are coming to roost and they can't get taxed. But then the flip side of it is like, you're hurting people. You know, you're— you're— you— this, this behavior and this greed is genuinely hurting people, and something's got to change.

1:08:53You know, I, I just wish that, you know, the Ontario College of Trades, uh, or, or the, you know, the shareholders of these big corporations would, would, would listen to, like, your voice, Jeff. And, you know, I think— imagine you testifying in front of Congress about the mental health technicians, tradespeople, it would be watershed. I think you put together— Imagine if I sat down with the boardroom at Canadian Tire and talked to them about how they have to change their culture within their business, right?

1:09:27Or Midas or Canadian Tire or Great Canadian Oil Change or something else. If I actually sat with them and said, this is what your typical person that works for you actually really feels looks like and wants to— at the end of the day, this is what they feel like. You walk in and you see them and they showed up today and you think that's a win.

1:09:50Talk to them at day's end and think about how many more years do they think they can do this or want to do this or what do they actually feel? And that's the thing. If more would listen, we would start to really solve this problem. But Like you said, the greed is in the way. And it's not just at the big franchise stores and it's not just the dealership.

1:10:09It's, it's, it's all throughout this industry. And some of it we painted as greed. But what the reality is, is there's, there's a collection of people that are realizing that they're worth more than they ever were paying themselves. And now they're starting to pay themselves and everybody's calling them greedy. And we have to change that stigma too, because at the end of the day, what another shop charges, I don't flippin' care.

1:10:33I really don't, man. Like, it's whatever I agree with my customer is my flippin' business. And, you know, I don't want to see people getting ripped off, but if they pay $500 and the car leaves fixed and they're satisfied and you're satisfied charging $500, I don't care if somebody would have done it for $250. I don't give a shit. Go be poor somewhere else.

1:10:57It's— that's what it boils down to. So, um, for years it was a race to the bottom, but I feel like as the shortage, you know, there's going to be things you just can't get or can't get done anymore. It's already coming. Like, you can't get someone to fix your weed whacker because it's not financially— like, you know, $300 weed whacker, you can't pay a guy.

1:11:15It's gonna be $100 in labor just to look at it and $100 in parts. Well, here's a new one, right? Yeah. You can't get an electrician out your house to wire up a light because they're too busy wiring new houses for $1,000 a day, you know, or whatever. So it's, it's, we gotta, I think it's gotta get worse before it gets better.

1:11:36Shortage-wise, I just hope that something, something, it starts with us. We just gotta, we have to recognize ourselves as professionals. We gotta be proud of the work we do and we gotta If every guy in your shop, if we had some solidarity, every guy in this trade, guy and girl in this trade said, I need to be treated better. It's not just money.

1:12:01I need to be treated better. They'll fucking treat us better or the shops that do will be successful and the shops that don't won't be able to ship cars this week because there's no one to sign the safety certificates. That's right. Greg, thank you for coming on tonight. Thanks for listening. You know, as always, thanks to my family at Promotive, you know, Launch Tech USA, TechMetric.

1:12:24Without you guys, we wouldn't be able to have these conversations. So I mean, I appreciate everybody that, you know, reaches out to support me every day. The people that have bought the merchandise from the store, you know, that just tickles me. What we're trying to do with that merch store, guys, is to take, you know, a shop owner or a technician to a training event.

1:12:42It's not like I'm putting in my pocket, right? We're going to do something with that money to give back. So, you know, I know the prices— tariffs suck, the prices are a little high, shipping sucks. But think about that from a standpoint of it's not going into Jeff's pocket. We're going to do something with that to continue to improve the industry. So thank you, everybody, for listening.

1:13:03Greg, it's been a blast, man. I enjoyed talking with you. Go. Thanks. Good luck fixing the lawnmower. Enjoy this good life, man. We'll talk to everybody later. Thank you, man. Hey, if you could do me a favor real quick and like, comment on, and share this episode, I'd really appreciate it. And please, most importantly, set the podcast to automatically download every Tuesday morning.

1:13:29As always, I'd like to thank our amazing guests for their perspectives and expertise, and I hope that you'll please join us again next week on this journey of change. Thank you to my partners in the ASAR Group and to the Changing the Industry podcast. Remember what I always say: in this industry, you get what you pay for. Here's hoping everyone finds their missing 10mm, and we'll see you all again next time.