Episode 270 - Overcoming Shop Owner Struggles: Hiring, Training, and Shop Management With Shaun Tipton

0:02Hey folks, David here, and I'd like to thank you for joining us for the Changing the Industry podcast. Lucas and I started this podcast with the goal of capturing the frank and open conversations you typically have at industry events. Those conversations cover the challenges we face in our business and lives, as well as difficult repairs, new products and services, and everything in between.

0:26We hoped that these recordings would spur our listeners to enact the change they'd like to see in their own lives and businesses. That's also why we've partnered with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence. My first management class was with Cecil Bullard, and his genuine passion for helping others in an honest and ethical manner permeates his entire organization. And if you need some of the Institute's help, they have a special offer for our listeners.

1:00Click the link in the show notes and get signed up for a free business analysis. They'll go over your current situation and give you advice on your next steps. And they have everything from free resources and online classes to peer groups, one-on-one coaching, and specific help for MSOs. So don't miss out on this great offer. Click the link in the show notes.

1:26And now on to the podcast. Fellas, how are we this morning? Good. Very good. My electrolytes. You're going to take your electrolytes? Yeah, you probably need some electrolytes. Oh man. Well, this morning we're here with Mr. Sean Tipton. Sean, how about you tell us a little bit about yourself? Uh, so let's see, where do we start? I've been in the industry for a total of 28 years now.

2:00Okay. I started as a tech like most shop owners. Yeah. Um, had some interesting times, man. It's been a journey that has started from technician to here, and I know you guys have probably heard these stories a million times, but man, the things you learn along the way that you thought you knew that you just just don't know. No kidding, man. That's such a good point too, because like we hear so many technicians who want to go start a shop and they get frustrated at David and I because we say, hey, we don't think you understand what you're getting into.

2:33Like, let's slow down for a minute, make sure you understand what you're getting into. We're not saying don't do it, we're saying go into it with a little bit of knowledge first so you understand, so you know what you're getting into, right? And so many people don't. So where were you working as a tech, Sean? So it's funny because I started out at a dealership.

2:52Okay. Which is where everybody thinks that's, you know, let's go to the dealership. That's a great place to work. That lasted about 6 months. I quickly realized that what I wanted to do as a career and what they wanted me to do was completely different. Yeah. The opportunity for advancement, which it's gotten better. Yeah, over the years I can actually say that it may still be tough at a dealership, but it's a lot better.

3:22In '98 it was, man, I had stories, man, I could write a book. It's crazy. But I started a dealership, 6 months later went to work for an independent. The guy called me up, he's like, hey, I've got a guy that gave me your name, thought you might be interested in coming to work. And I'm like, Okay, not really what I planned to do, but you know, it'll work.

3:46So I went and met the guy. Guy was a real nice guy. He turned out to be just an old school hot rodder from the '50s, man. This guy built NASCAR engines. He'd been around the world. So, uh, went to work for him. He was a diehard domestic guy. Like this was your V8 turbocharger, supercharger, 454s. I mean, that was him. He was a Chevrolet guy.

4:10After a couple years, I was kind of like, hey, have you ever thought about maybe getting into Euros? He's like, why? He's like, I want to mess with those cars, man. Like, I kind of like working on them, and it could be another revenue stream, and it could be good because, yeah, hot rods are cool, but it's not a lot of stuff going on, man.

4:32Like, the shop has projects and we've got engine builds and those are nice, but what about daily stuff? Yeah, for sure. That kind of fodder that feeds you and makes you feel like you're actually accomplishing something. Exactly. And back then we weren't, he wasn't on flat rate, which is kind of one of the appealing things, but in a way it wasn't like we got paid a set amount per week.

4:53So back then I think it was like $800 a week, which, you know, back then was pretty good. So, um, It was kind of a weird shock to him that I was concerned about that at the time because it didn't really affect my pay, but I was bored working on the stuff that he had. So he made a change, we did get into it, and he quickly started taking on a ton of these cars.

5:18Like, I don't think he realized the amount of European vehicles that were in our market. Right. That he was missing out on. And so it really helped out. And I was with this guy for, Oh man, probably 6 years. Okay. And after about 6 years, I felt like I'd reached my potential and tapped out. And I had this wild idea. It's like, hey, let's go start a shop.

5:44Right, right. In theory, it sounded great. I know, doesn't it all? You go, it's like, hey, I'm gonna be my own boss, man. I'm gonna be able to take off when I wanna take off. I can make all this money. Like nobody can tell me what to do. You don't have to go to work 3 a.m. You can get up in the middle of the night and go, how am I gonna pay the bills?

6:03Exactly. So, uh, with no plan whatsoever, and I think 2 paychecks in the bank, I made this stupid move. It's, it's not stupid now, but at the time, if I could go back and punch myself in the face, that would probably be something to do. Um, so jumped out. I actually started at my house, which is weird because I would never do that now, but I started out at home.

6:25I had people coming to my house, you know, they would drop cars off, we— I would do repairs. And then I had a guy who owned a Corvette and Viper shop. That's all he worked on exclusively. Okay. He's like, hey, I've got a stall for rent if you want to come, you know, work over here. And I was like, oh, that's kind of cool.

6:43I get over there and this guy's shop is like completely finished. It looks like the inside of a house. Like it's got wood paneling inside. It's got, you know, all this nice finished stuff. It looked better than any dealership I'd ever stepped in. And it was air-conditioned. I've never been in an air-conditioned shop, so I'm like, I'm in. So started there, quickly grew in client base, and basically he got to a point where he's like, look, you got to find something else, man.

7:12My whole yard's full of cars. Right. So moved into a shop, a 3-bay shop next to a dealership, and was there for a year. Funny story, this is kind of where the story twists a little bit. The guy that I started out with years before approached me during that time and he said, hey, um, I'm retiring, do you want to buy my shop?

7:36I was like, that's cool, yeah, what, get, throw me a number. And I'm thinking a high number, you know, I'm up there because this is a, an 8-bay shop, uh, very nice size, has a full machine shop in the back, it had it was close to 2 acres of land fenced in the back. I mean, it was a nice size place. He comes back with this super low number and I'm just like, yeah, I want it.

8:00And so I jumped on. So jumping back in time, man, I'm back where I started. I'm back in the same building. I love that. Do you think that he was doing that out of, out of homage, if you will, or to support you and help you get a leg up? What was his reasoning for it being so low? I think so. I— all the people I've met in this industry, I think that I have the most respect for him.

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9:16So if you're using PartsTech already, start sharing that referral link. And if you haven't signed up for PartsTech yet, what are you waiting for? Click on the link in the description or go to partstech.com/podcast. That's partstech.com/podcast. Hey, one more thing. If you find out that your shop management system doesn't integrate with PartsTech, it's time to upgrade. David and I use what we believe to be the very best system on the market, Shopware.

9:44With unmatched features like Parts GP Optimizer and DVX, which is their digital vehicle experience, Shopware really is way more than just a shop management software. With it, you'll be able to create an immersive and interactive experience for your client, setting you apart from everyone else using run-of-the-mill software. Are you ready to upgrade? Click the link in the show notes to get started.

10:03Well, he's never come out and said, hey man, I'm really proud of you. But you know, you get that feeling. Like he's like, he's glad I made it. That's awesome. And to me, that, that's, that's a lot because he's, he's an old school guy, man. He doesn't have the best personality. So like he doesn't get along with everybody. He's kind of disgruntled.

10:20He's an old guy. He's just, yeah, he's not a friendly guy. So to get into a relationship with him and it's just kind of weird. But yeah.— you know, that pathway. And so like, one of the things I want to ask about is, because you've talked a lot about the fact, hey, I was a technician, I was in dealership for a while, and then I went other places.

10:42What surprises were there when you moved into that ownership role? Because like, there's a lot of technicians who listen to the show, and I just want them— I want to do everything I can to make sure they're prepared for the surprises. And yeah, a lot of them won't believe us, and they're like, nah, guys, you guys are just trying to hog all the money for yourself.

10:59No, I wish I could figure out where I'd put it at this point, you know, but still, like, what surprises do you think were the biggest ones for you coming into this, you know, being a tech to an owner? There were a ton of surprises. I think if I could give a couple pieces of advice to anybody starting out, number one, check your labor rate.

11:19These guys coming out, man, I thought the same thing. I started out, you know, I was like, oh, this guy's charging $110. I can do it for $50 and still make more than I was making working for this guy. But then you don't take into account overhead, insurance, expenses. Stuff adds up so fast, uh, and everybody wants to be the good guy.

11:36That's the thing. That's what we want to do. We want to help people. That's what we get into this to fix cars and help people. And so I think we get a little carried away in how we help these people. Um, I think that we sometimes sacrifice for ourselves and, and take the hit in the beginning because we, we want to do a good job and we want to be what we consider fair at the time, but we don't understand what fair is until you're in this, in this role of an owner and you have to deal with these things on a daily basis.

12:10You don't really comprehend fair. For sure. Fair is not charging $50 an hour and cutting him a deal because there's other things on the back end that you're robbing from that client. Yeah. Like you're not providing certain, something goes wrong. Amenities, things that are external that you have to pay for that you're not supplying and providing. Like, these are things that you need to think about.

12:32So you need to be in a fair rate. Like, make sure you're in the same market area as everybody around you. Don't try to come in super low because you're, you're gonna get a lot of work. But I can attest to this, like, your labor rate's gonna attract your clientele. Dude, if you're at $50 an hour, dude, you're going to get $50 an hour clients and you're not going to enjoy it.

12:57You're going to hate your life. You're going to hate it. And here's the thing about it, right? And what they don't understand, I've talked to a lot of other shops about this and they said, yeah, but you're slower than I am. I said, right, I am slower than you are. But if you look at my revenue and your revenue, I did more revenue than you with less work.

13:12I'm making 3 times as much money. And I can sleep at night because the other side of that is then they say, well, You know, you're robbing these people. But, but no, it takes money to provide the services we provide. Yeah, I want for first and foremost, my guys make top wage. I have to pay these guys. I want them happy. I want my technicians happy to come in.

13:33I don't want them coming in worrying about how they're going to pay their light bill. Like, that's not something they should be concerned about when they're on my time. They should be concerned about— here's the thing, is think about how many technicians right now are complaining about it, saying, I don't earn enough, I'm going to go start my own thing. And then they do that.

13:48It's worse. It gets worse. Yeah, exactly. And I don't think they're grasping it. I don't think that they understand it. And they say, I'm going to go start my own shop. All right, well, look, the reason that the industry is where it's at right now is because of jackasses like you going and starting a shop without understanding the financials. Exactly. Charge a subpar rate and then you figure out you get jaded, you start treating your techs like shit because you're not doing what you need to do to be able to pay them.

14:12Right. Like you become the problem that you supposedly hate. Exactly. That's what it's all about for us, is educating them so they don't do that. Well, and they don't take into account that this is also— when they do that, say you have— I've had a couple lately, they've left shops and opened shops in my area. It's a huge market disruption. Yeah, it's huge.

14:33And it's temporary because those people that flock over there because they're like, oh, it's the newest, latest, and greatest, and they're way cheaper than this guy, and they're certified, and But yeah, in 6 months when they close because they can't pay their bills because they're not charging you accordingly, you're back at my shop. You're back here. Yep. And I'm cleaning up the messes.

14:51Exactly. And it's not good. Most of the times it's not good. But to go back, you're talking about how bad it is in the beginning. I'll tell you a really funny quick story. True story. In the very beginning, it was so bad that for a period of 2 months, I had 2 of my daughters were born at the time. They were very young.

15:11I'm thinking like 6, 8, uh, 5, 7, somewhere around that age group. We had to live in the shop for a 2-month period. Holy cow. We had to. We, we could not afford rent. We couldn't afford water. So for 2 months we lived there. There was a room off to the side that was private, and I don't tell very many people this story because it's kind of embarrassing, but people need to know just how bad it can get.

15:39Like, from people looking at me now would be like, oh, you never did that. Yeah. Oh yeah, I absolutely did. My wife, myself, and two kids lived in one room for two months inside my shop. It happened. And we were taking showers in the sink. It was terrible. It was terrible. If you knew how many people have been in that spot. And I don't know about you, because like, if it hadn't been for family, I would have been there too.

16:04Right? Oh yeah. And, and the thing is, is like, it was just for me a lack of knowledge. It was a, it was a lack of understanding the financials of the business, right? And you know, it's like we were talking to a guy yesterday, like the seasons of your life. When I was, when I was 17, 18 years old, buddy, I didn't have a care in the world.

16:24I was full of piss and vinegar. I was going to take over the world, right? And then like, you know, I get to 25 and like, ah, this is not what I thought it was gonna be. And like, this shop ownership shit is not like where I thought I was gonna end up. Like, I thought I was gonna have millions by now, and I was gonna— like, things were gonna be moving better.

16:43And, and I went to training and started kind of trying to like turn things around. And then like, here I am at 41 saying, you know, like, the trajectory for my life that I had at 17 and 18, the trajectory I had for my life at I had for my life at 35 and now 41 are all very different, right? Like what I'm trying to accomplish, what I want.

17:05And what I've learned is having the right people for the right season in your life. You know, I'm, I'm going through all this stuff with the finances and trying to make things work. And now I'm saying, okay, the businesses are big enough now that I don't need to be trying to handle the finances and be a COO, right? I don't need to be trying to be a CFO for the business.

17:23I need to find somebody to help me manage those things and do those things. For the financial aspect of the business because it's too big. It outgrew me, right? Yeah. And see, I think when I was 18 years old, when I was 25 years old, I didn't have any plans of it outgrowing me. I didn't think that was possible. I thought I knew everything I needed to know.

17:42Now I'm looking at it saying, hey, I'm not capable of doing what this business needs me to do. I need somebody that's specialized and knows what they're doing, you know. Need help. Yeah, you're, you're right that the seasons I don't know where I was going to go with that, but I had a thought for a moment about the season because you're right about that, that the people that I started with absolutely couldn't be the people I'm with now.

18:05Amen. They worked for the time that they were meant to work for and that was it. And now we're here. And I know every shop says it, man, but I'm telling you, I've got the absolute best crew of people right now. Sure. We recently had to let a guy go. Because of toxicity in the workplace and it was creating a lot of friction.

18:24But man, when that guy got removed, everybody blossomed. This place is smoking. These guys are on fire. The techs are killing it. The service provider's killing it. My service manager's killing it. Everybody's happy. So the other piece of advice I was going to give is like, be careful who you let in your circle. Yes. Don't hire a guy that's got a toolbox.

18:44Don't hire him because he's got 35 certifications. Don't hire him because he's got 20 years experience. In most cases, I found 20 years experience is terrible. Yes. That's the guy you don't want. That guy's got 20 years of bad habits. And here's the thing, he's been in it 20 years and you start looking at his resume and you're like, in 20 years he's been at 7 shops.

19:03Why has this guy been at 7 shops? If he is this good, why has somebody not kept him? Because if I've got a guy that is that good and he tries to leave, I'm going to fight tooth and nail. I'm going to be like, hey, what's going on? Are you not happy? And it's a manager problem? Is the money a problem? What's the problem?

19:20If it's something in my control that I can fix, man, I will fix it. Yeah. Sometimes it's not, you know, they're moving out of state, you know, a family member dies and they got to go help somebody. That's understandable. You don't want it to happen, but it happens. But the crew that I've got right now, man, I wouldn't replace a single one of these guys, man.

19:39Yeah. I'm 100% with you. Now, Let me ask you this, because like that trajectory and right when we talk about exactly what you're describing right now, the toxic tech, the 20-year tech that's bounced around all over the place. I mean, I'm kind of to the point right now because of all the comments I get all the time about like, hey, you don't understand how bad the industry is.

19:59Every single one of those that's describing all those issues, it's all dealership. What I was going to say, but is it interesting? But is it really that bad? Is it really that bad? I think it's a bandwagon. I think it's, it's a snowball effect. You get a couple of guys complaining and then this guy starts thinking, you know, well, maybe it isn't as good as I thought it was.

20:19Of course, we've all got hopes bigger than what we got in reality. It's never going to be what we want it to be. But is it good? That's, that's the question, man. Am I going to live in— am I— now, now here's the thing, right? Because I'm with you and that, that, see, that's why I couldn't couldn't grasp it when we were talking about the independent world.

20:37So I started asking more questions and dropping, dropping videos that would attract that commentary, right? Like to try and get to the bottom of it. I follow your videos, so I see them. I watched one this morning. I'm like, yeah, this guy sits on it. Well, so like, here's the thing is like, now that I go back and I'm asking those questions, right?

20:55I'm starting to say, now wait a minute, it sounds like all these problems are dealership problems. Well, it's flat rate. Well, I, I, it's gotta sit there for 2 days waiting on approval. It's got a— and I'm like, who would do that? Like, why would you? It's sitting on the lift waiting for parts for 4 days. So I don't know, man. I've tried to have this conversation before, but the problem is it is so multilayered and complicated.

21:19It's not— there's no simple answer for this. It's— there's a lot of problems going on and some of it's management, some of it's service advisors, some of it's parts department, some of it's the technicians, some of it's the client. It's a lot of things factored in, but you've got to know, you've got to address these things one by one. You can't fix all of it at one time.

21:40You've got to find one thing to focus on, get that correct, then move to the next. If everybody's doing their job and they're doing it to the best of their ability and they're functioning and everything is going as it should go, these problems don't exist. Yeah. A lot of these problems are from people that just, you got people in place that don't care about their job.

22:02And now not only is it affecting them and your company, now you're affecting your other people. Well, I mean, look, here's what I'm seeing, at least from my perspective and talking to all these guys. I think it's got to start with the compensation plans. It's got to. I think in dealerships, I think the problem starts with the service managers. And I think that it drips down from there.

22:22Because the service managers— look, I've had firsthand experience with a dealer service manager in my facility, and he was a sweet guy. I'm not saying anything bad about him, but his belief system, the way that he was compensated previously, it— for him, it was, I'm against the techs, I'm against the advisors. Why? I need them to make lots of money, but, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna nitpick everything they do.

22:45I'm looking because I'm trying to get my bonus. I care about my bonus. I care about my bonus. And so everything they did, right? Like, and I started asking questions of these other dealer guys and it's like the toxicity starts at the top, right? Like in the independent world, we're talking about toxicity at the technician level, at the service advisor level. But where'd it come from?

23:03We're finally getting into a good roll and here comes Lucas interrupting the episode. Folks, now you know exactly why I hire Shop Marketing Pros to do my shop marketing. It's that I am spastic and all over the place and I lack consistency. But here's the thing, that doesn't work in marketing. You see, marketing takes 30, 60, sometimes 90 days to be effective, and I was all over the place with my marketing.

23:30There was no consistency at all. Caused these waves in my business because I was so inconsistent. And that's why I am so happy to refer Shop Marketing Pros They bring consistency. They are true professionals. I'm going to encourage you, go down to the link below and get your free digital marketing inspection. Just like we do digital vehicle evaluations for automobiles, they're doing the same thing about your marketing, and they will help you get your business turned around.

24:03To get that out of our shops, but in the dealer world, it's starting to sound like all the toxicity's at the top and just dripping down all over everybody else, you know. Well, and that mentality is, is a terrible way to think about it because we're— you got to think of it's not a me, I situation. We're on a team. Yeah, we're all on the same team.

24:22Yep. It's just like a football team. It, you know, this guy, if he's not doing well, it's going to affect this guy and the whole team loses. It's not a one-man run. And the problem too is in, in this, it's crazy because the setup It's weird that a person would think solely about themselves in a situation where you're involved with such a bigger picture like a shop, because I had early on— I think this may be one of the reasons why my original guy that hired me, we get along so well, because I actually cared about his shop.

24:57And he asked me one day, I think I'd been there like a year or two, and he sat down one day at lunch because we used to go on Fridays and we'd go eat lunch and hang out. And he said, he said, why do you worry so much about the things in the shop? And why do you worry about this? He said, that's, that should be my job.

25:12And I said, I work here. If this shop doesn't do well, I don't do well. Why would I not care about how this shop looks and performs and, and how things are done? If, if I don't care about it, it's affecting me. Yes, some of this is your job, but if you're busy I'm not doing something. What does it hurt me to pick this up and do this?

25:34It's going to help me. It's going to help the shop as a whole. Why not? If, if you fail, I fail. Well, I mean, I, I think that, that the way the compensation structures are set up in some of these organizations, right? And it's one of the reasons that I've kind of made a rule at this point that I'm not going to hire dealer technicians anymore, uh, between ability between attitude, between expectations, like lots of different things.

26:01And, and what they've started doing recently is they just keep raking up on what they pay people. And it's like, so you're going to go to a shit environment because they pay you more? And they've got this concept, this mentality, it's all about the money. We'll see what they don't understand is, is while it can be all about the money, the toxicity is creating this need for it to be all about the money, right?

26:22The attitude from the top and driving it so hard just for the money, like they're, they're pinching the pennies on the technician and they're trying to figure out every way they can improve the profitability of the business. So they pinch the technicians, they reduce what the technician earns. The technician then becomes toxic because he feels like they're constantly after his money, right?

26:41It's, it's a dog eat dog world and the advisor gets paid more. That's not fair. And all of this noise, all of this stuff, but it all starts at the top in the compensation package for the manager. So he creates compensation packages for everybody else that reward him. And so if it, if it's constantly this drip down and all he cares about, his only focus is the money, it's not about taking care of the people.

27:04And, and I mean, watch some of these coaches that have come out of the dealership world. Look at some of these 20 groups. Look at what they, they talk about. I saw the money. It's all about them, right? Like, and, and what the techs don't understand is it doesn't have to be like that. Well, there's a guy, I can't remember the guy's name.

27:21Now, obviously I'm not going to say it on here anyway, but there's one guy in particular I thought about when you said that he does videos. And this guy is, I guess he's a service advisor trainer. Yeah. And the techniques that I've seen this guy talk about as far as like selling, and you know who I'm talking about. I'm like, why would you even say that?

27:40First of all, that's not ethical at any point. Second of all, you're saying this on a public content. Yeah. Why would you do that? Why? It makes no sense. Look like jackasses. Thanks. Exactly. And then— and now we're already having to fight this reinforced notion that every shop is trying to rip you off and every shop is unethical and every shop is, you know, doing it wrong.

28:08I've been fighting this for years, man, and I'm still fighting it. And I'm— and the thing is, we educate them one at a time. You can't save everybody, but if you've walked through my door, you're going to get educated. You're going to get educated. You're going to find out how you should be treated and how it should have been from day one and the way it should be done correctly.

28:27And going back to what you were saying about the compensation plans, I— we got away from flat rate a long time ago. Uh, my guys are on salary, my techs, and then they have a comp plan. So They get an hourly wage once they surpass their salary. So let's just, for example, let's just say they made $500 a week, which is not true.

28:51These guys make more than that, but $500 a week. So we would give them something like a flat rate hourly, you know, rate of $45. So once they say they did 40 hours, obviously by flat rate standards, they made more money than their salary. That's what they would take home. But in the event that they didn't, these guys are still making a good paycheck.

29:10If they turn 5 hours, I take the hit. Yeah, I take the hit. 100%, man. So it's a win-win for them. They're going to— if they don't turn hours, they're going to win. If they turn hours, they're going to win. So there's— I had a guy, he questioned that a while back. We had a conversation. He goes, but that's not fair. You're going to lose money.

29:28I'm like, no, because here's the thing. Once these guys know that they can trust you, and that they're gonna make money, they're gonna make you money. That's what they're gonna do. They don't have to no longer— my old boss had a saying, he said, if I don't have to worry about my money, I can worry about your money. Yep. And if you can get the technicians in that mind state so they're not worrying about their money, they can focus on your money.

29:51Yep. When they're happier, they're more productive and they do their job efficiently. Well, I mean, but it's terrible that we're to the point in the industry that the technicians are so jaded. They don't ever believe believe that somebody would actually try to take care of. Yeah, that they don't believe. And, and, you know, my question— I posted that video saying that no technician needs more than one bay.

30:11And so it was a bit of a troll video, right? Because there's others coming out after it. But the point is, is like, why would we need to push that hard if our industry charged what it needs to charge, right? Let's think about this for a minute. If we charge what we need to charge and we build appropriately and we set things up in a efficient and productive way, the technician doesn't have to scramble that hard to make a living, right?

30:34So if he's in one bay, hey man, just put it back together and get it out. I'm paying you 40 hours anyway, right? Like, it's not that big of a deal to put this back together. And let's try not to go so deep that we can't push a car back out. I'm not asking you to do extended warranty. I'm not asking you to tear something down to prove to a warranty company that this needs to be covered.

30:54I'm saying let's get this car back outside. Let's get another one in. Let's take the time. We've got equipment to move cars. You don't have to kill yourself to do this. Let's make sure you earn enough that you don't have to run 3 bays to survive. Right. But, but notice what they all did. They all went to, you're trying to take money away from me.

31:12You're trying to destroy what I've got. You're trying to make me inefficient. You're trying to— it's all about take, take, take, take, take. And if you start asking questions, you figure out like every single one of those commenters, was from the dealership. I need 5 days to survive in the dealer. Well, that's a you problem, boo. Get out of that dealer. Like, if you're not figured out that they're the people who treat people like that, I mean, come on now.

31:36Exactly, exactly. And I've got— that's another thing you have to overcome in this industry, man. When you, when you hire people in, the last guy, last couple guys I've hired, like, they come in, they're gun-shy, man. They're like some of the clients that come through our doors, you know. They've been burned, they've been abused, they've beat. So when they come in, it's hard to get them to trust you.

31:54It takes a little while to get them to that point, but once they see, they're like, man, this is great. My service advisor just yesterday, he's like, dude, you're the best boss ever. And I'm like, why? He goes, I've never been treated like this. I'm like, really? Like, you've never been treated like a human being? He's like, no, I really haven't. Yep.

32:13And it blew my mind. And I'm just like, I'm like, I I don't know, man. So much. So we can go so far off onto that one. Yeah. I think it's so lacking in this industry, treating another person like a human being. I think they're, they're seen as production numbers. Yeah. Right. In, in that world, they're seen as production numbers and people get mad at me because I push back against some of these coaching companies.

32:35I push back against dealerships and it's like, right. When you start seeing human beings as numbers and that's the only way that you can see them. I get that a big organization, it's almost impossible to know your people and, and all of those things. But see, for me personally, that's not what I desire. No, that's not the type of organization I want to run.

32:52That's not where I want to be. I want to know my people. Exactly. My people are taken care of. And so if you want that experience— now look, plenty of technicians, all they care about is the money. All they care about is what they can get. They don't care about the quality of work they're putting out. They don't care about putting their name on shit.

33:09Right? They care about like, hey, I'm just trying to get this out of here. Great, you're a great fit for a dealership. You're a great fit for a chain. You're a great fit for one of these people that's coached by these coaching organizations. Hey, just get them in the door, just get them in the door, turn it fast, turn it fast, turn it fast.

33:24Great, go work for them, right? And you can make a bookoo of money doing that. Yeah, exactly. But I'm saying like, that's not what I want, you know? So I've had a lot of experiences with coaching companies over the years, and I'm not going to say that they're all bad. I'm gonna say that you quickly will outgrow them no matter who you pick.

33:42I've actually used 3 different ones. There was good things, there's bad things. There's things I kicked back on and they don't like it when you kick back. Yeah. They're like, well, what are you paying us for? We're trying to tell you how to make money. That's great. I wanna make money, but I wanna do it the right way. I don't wanna, you know, abuse my guys and have them quitting.

33:57And now I'm down to one tech because we made 'em all mad and they've left. That's not good. I want to do it within my ethics and morals. Exactly. I don't want to lose myself in this. I don't want to like marginalize what I like about myself and my belief system because it's exactly money. I mean, it's money, dude. Like, I don't think they understand that when you die— I was talking to my aunt the other day and she said, you know, I'm gonna be cremated and I'm trying to figure out what to put in my mausoleum.

34:24And she said, all I'm gonna have is pictures because I don't have any money left. So I'm gonna have you guys take all of these pictures and put in the mausoleum. Yeah, for safekeeping and whatnot. And I'm like, I— it was just like a wake-up call to me that, oh my God, here we are, we're so focused on this money aspect of things, we're so focused on, yeah, on what we're gonna get.

34:44One day you're gonna be dead and it's not gonna matter. Like, that— I get building generational wealth, I, I get that, I understand that, but that's a strategy that's not seen in these organizations. No, they're not trying to teach generational wealth. They're trying to keep you growing so you can continue to pay them. Exactly. And part of that too, you're right, man.

35:05Like at the end of this deal, do you really want to be 55, 60 years old? I've seen a lot of techs retire out, man, and they just wasted their whole lives being miserable. Like, why? Like you wasted everything to gain what? Yep. Yeah. A couple of good years of fishing. Across the back wall. Worth but $5,000 now. What are they gonna do?

35:26They're gonna have to sell that off so they can bury you now? Bury you in it? Put you in the box and put it in the ground? I mean, what are you gonna do? Yeah, yeah, there's so much more to this, man. It's not, it's not all about money. Money is primary. I mean, we got to have money. We have to live, we have to operate.

35:41Yeah, and we want people to be successful and happy, but there's a way to do it. Yeah, that's— and if you focus solely on it, you're going to go the wrong way. You can't. Yeah, absolutely right. Like, well, you just, you can't see the forest for the trees when that's the only focus that you have. Yeah. You just cannot. The loss of your ethics and morals to gain more money will not net you a better result.

36:05I promise. Right. It's not worth it. I've seen people do it. It like, you can stack that pocketbook full, but the more of the ethics and morals that you lose, that perspective, that, that guiding light, if you will. As you lose those things, you start making decisions which put you in peril. They do. And it's a snowball all the time about the coaching companies and, and how it's like a frog in a pot of boiling water, right?

36:29They get these shop owners in the pot of water, it's cold, it's not that big of a deal, and they start turning the heat up a little bit. They're, they're encouraging them to do things. They're, hey man, it's making money, things are good, things are good, things are good. And eventually they look up The pot's boiling. Yep. And you know, there were a lot of shops who went out and they implemented some of the things that were taught by some coaching companies.

36:49And then they message me and they say, hey, like I don't have any clients and all of this is really kind of going downhill. What do you think happened? What, where did I go wrong? Well, you followed a coaching model that was designed for a metro area that doesn't care how it treats people, that doesn't care about the income, doesn't or about the outcome for those people.

37:11It's only focused on the money. And the idea is, is I can replace a tech, I can replace a client, I can replace a service advisor, and all you have to do is keep replacing them over and over and over again, and you'll just keep making money. And they, they don't really come out and say it like that, obviously, because they wouldn't have any clients if they did.

37:30But, but then they tried to implement that in rural North Carolina. They tried to implement that in rural Florida. Yes. It's not going to work. It doesn't work. It doesn't work for it. I've had this argument. I've had this argument with coaches in the past. They're like, like, great, it works in Las Vegas. Cool. Doesn't work here. Yeah. Like, we know this is a small area.

37:53We know everybody. Everybody knows everybody. So you make one guy upset and everybody knows it. You can't, you can't do that. Like, we don't have the people to burn through. Right. So we have to build relationships and we have to gain trust and we have to do things correctly and we can't abuse that person's trust while they're in our shop. Like, we have to do it this way.

38:13And the other thing is too, the amount of money some of these coaching firms charge, man, it's ridiculous. And they're, and they're so underhanded because you'll get logged in and signed up and then 7 months down the road you're like, I don't think this is working anymore. Like, oh yeah, by the way, you're in a 2-year contract. You go ahead and default and our lawyers will be contacting you.

38:33Oh, great. So now not only am I unhappy and I can't use the advice you give me because half of it's garbage, now you're going to, you know, basically take my money for the next 2 years. So great. Yeah, good job. Good job. That's everything that your company is about right there. And they're teaching— they're teaching shops to do the same thing in one way.

38:52Exactly right. Like that. Exactly. And then we look up and we say, why is the industry shit? Why does everybody hate it? Exactly. That makes sense. Well, let me ask you this, like, what was your journey when we talk about like shop management software, stuff like that? Because that's one of the things some of the shop owners who started years ago, one of the things that I think is important is, is there was a trajectory where we were on pen and paper and we began to move through shop management softwares.

39:18Tell us a little bit about your journey through the shop management software. I knew you, I knew you were gonna hit on this topic. So, Yeah, it started out exactly. We started out with paper and pen. My first work order was a little pack of work orders you would buy from Walmart in a little plastic wrap. They were like two-piece copies. Yep.

39:37That's what we started with. And then I think I upgraded from there, had a Mitchell rep come by. This is way early on, man. We had a Mitchell rep come by and he's like, hey, we can do this software. It's only this much money and You get all this technical info with it because you can have on ProDemand or whatever it's called.

39:55Right. It comes with it. I was like, oh, that's cool. So we started there. We grew, we moved on. I went from that software to, man, I'm trying to remember who the second software company I was with. I can't remember now, but it was right about the time I started doing my coaching. So it was probably, uh, like Pace Software or something like that.

40:18Yeah, for sure. Very antiquated, very hard to maneuver. Uh, I think for the year that I had it, I fought more with inventory problems. It was never right. You couldn't make it right. There was no way to audit it. It was a nightmare. So we left that. Uh, and then we moved on to, uh, MaxTrax, which was not bad. MaxTrax was not a terrible software.

40:43Um, could it have been better in a million ways? Absolutely., but it was great for the time. We used it for several years. We moved through that system and then, uh, moved into some other things. We went to, uh, Shop Monkey. Who else did we use? Went through Shop Boss. We went through several, uh, and I ended up hearing from a friend about Shopware.

41:07That's kind of where we've been for quite a while, for years. And I was like, man, I don't know. I've been through this before. I don't like having to pay all this money to onboard the information from my current software. It's a big deal. If I don't like it, then I'm screwed. I got to go back and pay, you know, to get all this stuff reintegrated to the old software and to make this move.

41:29And it's disruptive to the techs. It's disruptive to my clients. And after about a month of conversation, he talked me into it. He's like, I'm telling you, if you swap over, You're not going to regret it. I'm like, I'm going to take your word on this, man. I'm going to do it. And I did. I swapped over and man, I think the biggest selling point for me that finally got him to tip the scales was he's like, look, man, this was like created by a shop owner.

41:54Yeah, for sure. And I'm like, for sure. I'm like, well, it's got to be good because they know what we need. Yeah. And but, you know, all the years I was burned with other softwares, man, it was like I had this reservation and I'm like, I don't know if I want to do this. And then finally I made a decision to do it.

42:07And man, I, I only thought about leaving it one time, and I had a rep call me up and he's like telling me about his software. And I think it was, it was ShopBoss, which I think is actually a sister company. Yeah, but it is now. So yeah, I think they bought them. But at the time they're like, yeah, you should do this.

42:28I swapped over and then, man, biggest mistake of my life, dude. It was tough. It was tough for months. And finally, Thank God over the years I was smart enough to know, hey, I'm going to move over to ShopBoss, but I'm not going to cancel my subscription with Shopware. I'm going to keep paying it. Yeah, just in case, man. There's a safety net.

42:48And several months later, after we swapped over, I was like, that's it, we're back. And I called Shopware up and I can't remember who I talked to, man. And I think I talked to Nicole. Who's the person I deal with mostly. And I was like, look, I made a mistake. I was wrong. I was wrong. Take me back. I'm sorry. I'll never do it again.

43:12And I do. Honestly, if anybody calls me with a software referral right now, they're wasting their breath. I'm not going anywhere at this point. And honestly, the two things that I had fault with the inspection portion of it. Yeah, they literally fixed it a month after I left. I'm like, are you freaking kidding me, man? Like the one thing that I had a problem with, I leave and you guys fix it the next month, man.

43:36So I think so many people go through this, right? And what we all fall victim to is we like the new flashy bells and whistles and all the things. Yeah. We don't understand the complexities that come along with that. Right. And so for me, right? Like what are the big things that I look at when I'm choosing a software like that? I want something that's easy to onboard my people.

43:55People with. I want something that's easy to use. I don't want all the buttons. I don't want all the bells and the whistles. I want the product to do what I need it to do. Yeah. And see, everybody that comes into shop management softwares, they expect it to work like their process works. They don't know how shop management softwares work, Bubba. Yep.

44:13What the way it works is, is you build your process around the product. And so like Carolyn, when we, when we first signed up with Shopware, I was having troubles. She sat down and said, hey, here's how I designed this to work. We implemented that, and dude, it's been smooth sailing ever since. I mean, that's our whole workflow. Yeah, and I was going to say too, the, the good point is if you do want the bells and whistles, they've got them.

44:37Yeah, I just recently switched my CRM over to Shopware, and, uh, actually swapped through Shopware, I was able to get my website swapped over to Autoshop Solutions, right? So now we are completely Shopware exclusively. Like, we've swapped everything over to those guys and we don't have 3 or 4 programs running, which was another issue too, because with the inspection process not being what I wanted it to be or expected it to be at the time, we had a separate company for that.

45:07And then for my CRM website, we had another company. So the issue becomes you're touching your clients too much because you've got notifications coming from 3 softwares And it's confusing. It's confusing. So my service advisor is running like this rat race. He's like, I've got stuff coming in on email. I've got stuff coming in from here. I've got stuff. I can't keep up with all this.

45:28Too many messages from too many places and things were getting dropped. So when they, when I talked to them a month or two ago about the CRM and everything, and we decided to swap over, I was like, man, this is so good, man. Like we're going to be able to put everything in one house, one communication, one system, done. And do not regret it at all.

45:51It was a little bumpy moving into the CRM because obviously new softwares are different, you got to get used to them. Yeah. And so we've got all the bugs worked out, it's working great now, and man, it's, it's perfect. Everything works great. So you— let me ask you this, what kind of cars are you— are you still Euro? Because I know you went to Euro when working for the other Right, so that's all we do exclusively.

46:12So our main focus is Porsche. That's our number one. So we're a Porsche-driven shop. Like we do a ton of Porsche. We have our shops divided into two. So we've got half the shop is Porsche exclusively. That's all those guys do. And they also do like exotics. So Ferrari, Aston Martin, Lamborghini. Those cars. And then on our back shop, we've got the remaining Euro stuff.

46:43So the BMW, the Audi, the Volkswagen, the Mercedes, the Land Rover, those guys do that. But we're strictly Euro with a Porsche focus. I love that. So let me ask you this then, because that clientele, especially when you get into exotics, is expecting something very different from their experience. Yes, right. It is. And, and I don't care what anybody says, it's a lot of work to get them to the point and to hold them— I don't want to say like to keep them happy, but like they have very high demands compared to a standard walk-in client, right?

47:21They really love the car, they spent a lot of money to get the car, right? That car is something very special to them. right? Do you think that when we talk about like shop management and process flow and all of those things, that you have to run different processes and the shop management software has to be a little more astute? In other words, you have to have the process flowing really well compared to standard domestic, even standard European, right?

47:48Do you think it makes a difference? I think it absolutely makes a difference. I think that I, I have to give credit to Shopware because That's part of what makes us stand out. Like the updates, the communication through the system, the way it's set up, the way that the repair orders are laid out. Like it really helps out. And we, it's weird because we get compliments because you would think going to a dealer, they should be the best.

48:16They should have the best systems. They should have the best communication. They should have the best repair order information. And time and time again, we get compliments all the time to the service advisor. Hey man, your system is great. We love it. We love the text. We love the fact that, you know, we can go into our repair order anytime and look at it and look at the updates.

48:35Like, they love that stuff, man, because they can see it in real time. Once you send them and share that repair order, it's a live link. It's a living document. So, you know, they can go in there and look at the status. They can say, oh, he's still waiting on parts. Oh, look, there's a note here. Let's see what the technician said.

48:50They love that. They love getting that update and being able to see that stuff. And it also, it kind of makes them feel involved with the process more, right? Which is great because we want them involved with every step, especially in the line of work that you're in. Now let me ask you, how do you find— because like everybody's out here saying, I can't find technicians, I can't find service advisors, there's nobody out there.

49:13But here you are, you've got a shop full of techs that can work on exotics. Yep. And high-end cars. How did you find a staff? So I'll tell you the secret. You ready? Yep. Quit hiring technicians, man. Quit hiring technicians. The last guy I hired was a lube guy. Yeah, we brought him in, we've trained him up, he's been here for a while.

49:37This guy's working on everything now. He's doing diagnostics, he's— we sent him a training, that's That's another key thing that people leave out. Independent shops are terrible at this. Spend the money on your guys, man. Send those guys to training. Spend the money. They're scared. I talk to shop owners all the time and they're like, yeah, man, but you know, training's expensive.

49:58And if this guy leaves in a year, who cares? He's representing your shop right now. Who cares what he's doing in 2 years? Spend the money, dude. Send that guy to class. $500, $1,000, who cares? Right. Get him up to speed. Give him the— equip him with what he needs to do his job. Yeah. And let me ask about that though, because I think this is important, right?

50:22You were a technician. Yeah. How are you determining it? And I don't want to say worthy, right? I shouldn't say worthy. Right. But, but we all know there are some technicians who come in and they really want it, right? Like, I don't know if you know anything about the EOS operating system. Wants it, gets it, has the capacity for it, right? There's some that want it and they get it, but they don't have the capacity.

50:47How do we judge that? How do we make sure that the people that we're putting in these bays have the capacity that we need them to have to be able to do the job that we need them to do? You're not always going to find the person with the capacity. You're gonna have to create that person. You're gonna have to mentor that person.

51:03You're gonna have to, to shape that guy. I, I think I've tried different hiring models over the years. I've done it all. I've tried, you know, looking for qualified people. I've tried looking for people who have experience. I've tried looking for guys who have tools. I've done it all. The number one thing that I've found that works, man, if you find a guy who has a good attitude and he's honest and he doesn't come through the door and say, I work on everything, you know, I can fix everything, I'm a 20-year master tech.

51:33I don't even want that guy. Yeah, I don't even have a second interview with them. When those guys come in like that, I don't— it's like, okay, good for you. Yeah, you're not a good fit here. Probably not the place for you, but you're not a good fit. My culture is above everything else. I value my culture in my shop higher than I value anything else.

51:50So I'm not looking for a technician. I'm looking for a guy that I can make a technician. Yeah. If you find the guy that can be a technician who wants to do it, but he has the right attitude and he has the right morals, you have to ask the right questions during an interview. I talk about personal life things during interviews, man.

52:09I'm not asking you, you know, have you ever changed the transmission on a, you know, a ZF and blah, blah. I don't get into that. I don't care. We have enough information. We have enough training. We have enough You know, systems and workshop manuals that you will figure it out. How's your home life? What do you like? What do you like to do?

52:29What do you like to do when you're off work? You know, you know, what are your hobbies? That's what I want to know, because I can tell more about this guy asking those questions than I can asking him what he can work on. What kind of human being are you? What kind of person are you? Do you have pets? What kind of pets do you have?

52:47Really? How many? You have kids? You're married? Oh, great. How long you been married? I want to know this stuff, man, because it's not a hiring process. This is like a courtship. Yeah, we're about to get married. Yep, 100%. We are about to get married. We are going to be one. Once I bring you in and you sign that paper, you're my responsibility.

53:14Yeah. So I have to make sure this is a good fit. If we don't have the same values and we don't line up, I mean, it's going to inevitably be a problem. Yeah. Sooner or later it's going to become a problem. And these guys, you get the guys with the right values and morals and the guys that really want to do this.

53:32I've not had one of those guys fail. Yeah. If they fail, you know what? It's my fault. It's not their fault. It's because I didn't do something. I didn't equip these guys. I didn't spend the time with these guys. I didn't get them what they needed. I didn't send them to training. That's the only way they can fail. Yeah. Yep. Absolutely. I think you're 100% right.

53:53And I think that the thing is, is like, it's about that initial process. Exactly. It's about finding the person from the get-go. And then here's the other thing is if they start to turn toxic, if you realize it's a problem, you realize there's something going on, you realize they don't have the capacity once they're in there, the number one thing you gotta do is you gotta deal with it right now.

54:15Immediately. I think shop owners, man, they feel bad and they, they don't want to hurt somebody's feelings, but what they're doing is they hurt the rest of the team. They hurt the client. And so we, we have to understand what's at risk when we let that person stay. I don't think that it's— destroy a shop, man. I don't think they're necessarily worried about the feelings of the people.

54:35I think they're scared of losing a technician. That's, that's very true too. They don't want to be a man down. Right now that guy's a problem, but at least he's making me money. You know, he's turning cars. Yeah. But if you, like you said, if you let it go, now not only is he going to be a problem, he's going to affect the other guys and their production is going to drop.

54:55Yeah. Is it— another thing that a guy told me years ago, and I'll never forget it, we had a conversation. I had a guy who was a problem back then. And I let this go on way, way too long. I put way too much in my early years. I should have cut it, but trying to do the right thing, man. You want to help people.

55:12You don't want to see people fail. But I let it go on and the guy told me, I was like, you know, it's going to, if I fire this guy, this is what it's going to cost me this. I'm going to lose this. I'm going to have to hire another guy. I'm going to have to, you know, jump in the shop. I'm going to, you know, not be available for this and I need to be working on that.

55:30He said, that's going to cost you a lot. He said, but what is it going to cost you to keep this guy? Okay, man, way more. And he was absolutely right, man. It was going to cost me way more money in the end if I kept this guy. I just cut the string, right? Like you're going to lose some peace over it.

55:47You're going to lose some sleep over it. You're going to do sleepless nights. I have had so many, man. I remember a period of time where I had— I was running two shops at the time, man. And I had this one guy, he was a huge problem, and it was one of those kind of problems where you just couldn't walk in and fire him.

56:04You had to walk in and handle this guy with gloves because he was that guy. Like, even though he didn't have a ground, you know, to stand on, he could really— he wanted to make my life miserable. And so I had to be careful about how I addressed this man. There was an entire week I didn't sleep. I would lay down at night, man, I would just be sweating.

56:22And just staring at the ceiling, wanting to go to sleep. I'm exhausted, man. Mentally, physically, I'm done. But I can't. I'm just staring at the ceiling for hours and hours. And man, dude, it was not worth it. At the end of the day, man, if a guy starts showing signs he's a problem, address it immediately. If it happens again, fire him. Don't even ask him.

56:46Don't even talk. Fired. Dude's done. 100%. You can't deal with it. I think that we like have it in our head, and, and I, I hear all these technicians that talk so poorly about shop owners, right? And I think we have it in our head that we almost work for them in some ways. Like, do you know how many shop owners I talk to that they're like, yeah, but he's this and I don't want to— talk to one the other day and he's like, you know, if I tell them what we're going to work on or I tell them when they have to be here, and if I say anything, they get very upset.

57:19Really? Okay, like, hold up now. You can't be held hostage in your own shop. Like, you've got to be able— there has to be a leader. And if you're letting them lead, the— here's the problem is like, I know technicians love to believe that they are leaders, and I know that they love to believe that they know how to run a shop better than anybody else.

57:37I get on old Jeff Compton all the time. They're doing this wrong and this wrong and this wrong and this wrong. I'm like, Jeff, the problem is, is you can't see everything. Like you only see your part of it and you don't see the advisor part of it. And then you don't see the owner part who sees your part and the advisor part and all the other parts.

57:53And plus the bills that come out, right? Like you just don't see it. Exactly. You don't have the perspective. And so I think that if we don't have as owners, this leadership component and, and look, I'm gonna tell you that no matter what, as a business owner, business owner, you must be a leader. And if you don't want to be a leader, fine, go get a job.

58:11Go do something else. Go do something where you don't have to be a leader. You don't have people who are in your employ. And be the kind of leader— and be the kind of leader that you would want to be under. Yeah, remember that, man. People forget this stuff, man. They forget being a tech. They forget what it was like. They get wrapped up in this whole deal and concept of being a business owner and an entrepreneur and they're trying to fit a role that they were never intended to fit, man.

58:37Like you were a tech, you should know what these guys are going through. Yep. Absolutely. Like you didn't want to deal with that. Why would you put them through it, man? Really? Exactly. But see, they lose the perspective, right? Like they don't think about it from that standpoint. They think about the objective. They think about the goal that they're trying to accomplish right now.

58:54And see, here's the deal. Leadership is a skill that must be learned and trained, right? Like, you, you're not going to be a leader unless you invest in leadership. You have to go out and do it. You have to learn about it. You have to develop the skill. It's— and, and yeah, there's some muscle memory to it, but even then, like, I have to go back and continue to train in leadership.

59:15Yeah. So I make sure that I'm staying current and I'm staying moving in a positive direction. I'm understanding what my guys are going through. It's reminding me of things that I forgot about. Because if I'm not developing myself as a leader— and look, I pick on Dutch for this because Dutch is always, you know, this next generation, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

59:34And he's openly admitted, like, this generation sucks because I failed you. I didn't make you tough, right? Like, I should have made you put up or shut up. And I'm not going to say that he's wrong, but here's the thing, is like, the next generation has to be led differently than the previous generation. Yeah, the, the skills and the talents that, that you led the previous generation with is not going to lead the current generation.

59:57So we have to stay current on leadership skills. And I just think that if, if you don't develop those skills, man, you are asking for trouble. So are we going to sit here and talk about the generation, or are we going to do something about it? Good question. Amen, buddy. Good question. Amen. And you were talking about the guy, you know, the more like the boss working for the tech.

1:00:18You're right, man. That happens a lot. But I've got a saying here at the shop. When we've got a person like that, we don't have an employee. We have a terrorist. Yeah. And we do not negotiate with terrorists at all, period. Amen. I would rather have them mad at me. I would rather have a 1-star review. I would rather— whatever I got to do.

1:00:40Like, but I'm not going to negotiate with you because you're an asshole. Right? Exactly. 100%. They're just not doing it. You can't. But yeah, that's, yeah. 100%, man. Shawn, in closing, is there anything that you would want technicians, service advisors, or shop owners to know about this industry with your experience? Anything that you feel is really important for them to hear? I've got a lot of things, man, but I don't know one specific.

1:01:08I guess the specific, okay, so I will say this. If, if you really truly feel like you're not being treated fairly and it's not you, do, do self-examination first. Let's, let's look at it. You know, let's not just say, you know, we're being treated unfairly. Let's examine it. And if it's legitimate, try to address it, man. Like it doesn't hurt to have conversations.

1:01:30And if your leadership in wherever you're at doesn't like to have those hard conversations, then maybe you're in the wrong place. Exactly. You're in the wrong place because we have an open door here. My guys can tell me anything and they know I'm not going to get upset. They can come in and say whatever. I'm going to listen. Yeah, you're exactly right.

1:01:47And if you can't have that conversation and if the business owner is not interested in improving based on your feedback, like the number of guys that I'm told say, hey dude, I can't say anything to them. They'll fire me. I've seen them fire all these other people who complained. If you're working in a place who's gonna fire people because they gave feedback that would make the business better, you're in the wrong place.

1:02:08Maybe you should leave. So the industry as a whole, it's got a terrible reputation right now. And you're trying to change that. I'm working in my local area to try to change that. We've gotta change the perception 'cause that's not the truth. It's the voices of a few screaming really loudly is what's happening. And there are a lot of great shops out there, man.

1:02:32So if you are working somewhere and it's like that, don't feel like there's not options, man. There are places, dude, it's not that hard to find one. There are way more ethical and great shops out there than there are bad ones. You're exactly right. Now look, I'm going to tell you something though. The naysayers, the complainers, the haters, the ones who are upset and always out there rabble-rousing.

1:02:55I'm going to tell you something about them that I've learned. It's that they say there are no great shops because no great shops will hire them. Okay, true. Great shops are really good at filtering and sifting out the flak, and those guys get put in the, the, the discard pile. They get thrown out, and they're like, there's no great shops out here.

1:03:15Well, maybe you should reflect a little bit, as you said, on yourself and make sure there's not part of problem that is you. We call those guys bench warmers. We keep them in the file, but you know, they just kind of hang out. So that's exactly right. Yeah, and that's the thing, man. There's just— there, there really is a lot of great shops out there, man.

1:03:33But again, it goes back to what you were saying too. Most of these guys are chasing a dollar, so it's more appealing to go work for a crappy place that's going to pay $2 more. Yeah, peace of mind is invaluable, man. You cannot put a price tag on it, period. 100%. Don't— I, I think if there was one piece of advice I would give, especially younger techs and those who, who aspire to be owners, don't look at your life right now for where you think you want to be.

1:04:00Evaluate your life and look out 5, 10, 15, 20 years and think, if everything changed in my life, where would I really want to be? If I had kids, if, if, if I got I got sick and I couldn't work anymore, if everything hit the fan, where would I want my life to be? What type of security would I want in my life?

1:04:21And would I be okay with it? Exactly. Would I be okay with it? If I lost, like right now, I could lose everything in this building. You know what? That's okay with it, man. I'm okay with it. Yep. You know, I, we're going through all this mess with family business stuff and, and I still laugh at my dad from time to time.

1:04:382008, he had got involved with this pastor and the guy got him for millions of dollars. Oh, man. Man, I was freaking out. And I'm like, Dad, you've sunk us. You've done this, you've done that. He's like, ah, son, it'll be all right. It's just money. And, you know, I look back now and all this is going on. He said, son, no matter what happens, it'll be all right.

1:04:57You're going to live and you're going to die. You better just enjoy the process. Enjoy the ride, man. Getting wound up ain't going to do nothing. Enjoy the ride. Enjoy the journey. I'm getting there. I'm— By the way, you got $1 million I could borrow? Buddy, I got a couple million that I owe at this point. If you can get them to write that off, I might be able to help.

1:05:22We'll see. We may be running neck and neck. Well, I wouldn't want to trade with you. That's it. That's it. Sean, thank you for being here, brother. Oh, man, it's been great. Thank you for listening to the Changing the Industry podcast. If you enjoy the show, do us a favor and leave us a review on your favorite podcast player, and don't forget to set it to automatically download the latest episode.

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