Ep 93 - Brad McAllister & Jay Power | $24K/Month More at the Shop with Analytics?
With Jay Power, Brad McAllister
Now playing — Confessions of a Shop Owner
About this episode
Tektonic 2027 is coming up April 1-3, and if you missed year 1, you MUST NOT miss year 2. It's bigger, it's better, because is…
Key takeaways
- —Improving close ratios by just 6 points can increase monthly revenue significantly.
- —Effective communication systems are crucial for connecting with customers and improving service.
- —Analytics can help shop owners track performance and make informed decisions.
- —Understanding customer demographics is key to targeted marketing efforts.
- —Incentivizing service advisors based on gross profit can drive better performance.
Frequently asked
- What is the impact of a 6-point increase in close ratio?
- A 6-point increase in close ratio can lead to an additional $24,475 in revenue per month for a shop.
- How can analytics help in managing a shop?
- Analytics provide visibility into performance metrics, helping owners set goals and track progress effectively.
- What role does technology play in customer interactions?
- Technology, such as CRM systems, enhances communication with customers, allowing for better service and follow-ups.
▸Full transcript
The median tech quote that we saw was $1,482, $1,482 and 254 cars per month. If you raise the close ratio on that by 6 points, that would increase your ARO and then that would be $24,475 more a month for 6 points. The following program features a bunch of doofuses talking about the automotive aftermarket. The stuff we or our guests may say do not necessarily reflect the beliefs of our peers, our sponsors, or any other association questions we may have.
There may be some spicy language in this show, so if you get your feelings hurt easily, you should probably just move along. So without further ado, here's your host, Mike Allen, with Confessions of a Shop Owner, presented by TechMetric, the best software in the history of ever. Alright, so here we are, we're at Tectonic 2026. It's day 1, day 1 and a half.
A lot of us got here yesterday and had the party on the pool on the roof, the, uh, the Texas-shaped lazy river. You noticed? Has anyone actually been in the Texas-shaped lazy river? I tried to get Jay to, but I have not. I have not. It was close though. The lines at the bar were a little bit long for me to have enough alcohol to be able to do that last night.
Yeah, yeah, try again tonight. My previous guest Rochelle Gottsenter was one of the women on the panel, actually both of the women that were in my previous episode, but her father was here and they, I guess, listened to the podcast. Awesome. Thank you for that. But he knows that I'm a big whiskey fan, so he's brought a bottle of bourbon that he wants to share tonight.
So very cool. So we might see you. Yeah, sure. In the pool tonight. About 10:30. Look for me slowly drowning in the pool, flapping around in this blazer. What part of Texas in the pool will you be at? Southeast or? If I get in on the Panhandle and come around with that direction of flow, I'll probably drown by Houston. There you go.
Smart. Yeah, smart. Now, the party was great. Really awesome. Great event. It was really— we were very impressed. Everything so far about this has been incredibly top notch. Yeah. I mean, next level production value and organization. Food's been great. So I'm really impressed with it. From start to finish. I will say last night I did like a 30-minute breeze through at the party.
Yeah, I love small social gatherings, like 15, 20 people. Love it. That's my element. A couple hundred people, I get a little overwhelmed. Yeah. And I'm just like, I'm going to go sit in the corner. So I had to take a little break. I did actually went back across the bridge and sat down over by the little fire pit. Yeah. Talk to my kids for a little bit.
And nice. And then I, then I went to the turtle races last night. So say that again. Turtle races. It's funny, you might think that I stuttered. So I thought I heard you wrong. I thought I had to hear— I thought it was me. So the promotive team invited me to go with them, and there was a place called Little Woodrose. I guess there are 5 or 6 of them around the Houston area, but the Midtown bar, it's like a neighborhood bar.
They've got lots of porch swings hanging up everywhere and cornhole and giant Jenga and all that. But this specific location in Midtown, every Thursday night for 18 years, they have turtle races and they paint numbers on the back of the shell of 10 turtles. And they each have like bios and like cheesy names, like Timothy Shellamay was one. And Shellamay. Yeah, they're all different turtle, you know, puns.
Yeah. But you go get your ticket and you pick your, your horse, right? And then it's like stadium seating all the way around. People screaming and yelling and cheering for their, for their turtle. And they all start in the middle and it's the first turtle to get out of the circle. Oh, okay. So it's not like a straight foot— they're not racing a track.
It's just escape, escape the circle, I guess. I don't know. How did you do? I, I am— it would— it turns out that I need to find a different type of degenerate gambling to become a millionaire on turtle. I'm not good at picking fast turtles. Okay. I did learn that size does not necessarily equate to speed one way or the other. The small ones are super slow and the big ones are super slow.
Medium-sized turtles, it's the way to go. Who knew? Yeah. Now you guys know. All of our listeners. All of our listeners know. I feel like that's a good segue to have you introduce yourselves. Okay. With the turtles. Brad, are you the medium-sized turtle or the small or large turtle? I'm not really sure. Great segue. Oh, mercy. Well, I'll start since I took the bait on that one.
My name is Jay Power. I'm the CEO of OctoRocket. Okay. And I'm Brad McAllister. I am the CTO of OctoRocket and co-founder. And co-founder. Co-founder. Yeah. How old is OctoRocket? Geez, how is it in turtle years or what are turtle years? Are they more or less? Anyway, it's pi. Times, yeah. Yeah, so the voice solution of the platform has been around, what, 10 years, 9, 10 years?
About 10 years now, yeah. Yeah, the analytics side of our business that we bolted on and put it all together really has been around probably 3 or 4 years. Okay, and have you noticed that, okay, back up. Yes. Explain what your business is to our listeners who might not be familiar. Okay, so the way I break it down, and I break it down to kind of key 3 things, 'cause there's a lot of features that we offer within the platform.
Which is what happens when you grow up in shops and shop owners ask you to, hey, can you do this? Can you do this? And you listen and you build those things. But it kind of breaks down into our why. And our why is we help our clients connect with their customers, cut through the noise, and seize every opportunity. So that sounds high, lofty vision.
What it really breaks down is when we connect our clients with our customers, we have a communication system that we built from the ground up, voice, text, communicates through our platform. Service advisor can get in it, handle all the customers, see everything about their customer, right? So it's the communicators, how they connect with their client. Hey guys, Kari Lynn with Turnkey Marketing.
If you are looking to increase cars and you're looking for the right demographic to go after, you want to get the right people who need auto repair right now, then give us a call. We have a service called Direct Track and it utilizes AI to find people in your area who are the great demographic that you wanna go after, have raised their hand and opted in saying, I need auto repair help right now.
We send them an email. As soon as they open the email, we then get their physical address, follow it up with commercial ads on all their streaming services like Hulu and YouTube and ESPN, Fox News, all those different things. And then we also get their physical address and we start sending banner ads and display ads to every single device in that house.
It has been incredibly effective. It has made shops seem like they're everywhere to those people who need repairs right then. And I mean, I'm telling you guys, the return on investment has been huge. So if you want to increase car count, you want to get great people in the door, give us a call or reach out to us and ask us about DirectTrack Marketing.
Look, when I first opened my shop, I thought my old systems would keep up, the software that I had would continue to evolve, but as we grew, the slow estimates, scattered workflow, increasing downtime, it really just, it was becoming a real problem. That's why I switched to TechMetric. It's not just software, it's a complete shop management system that makes my life easier.
SmartJobs, instant estimates, integrated payments, integrated financing options. I mean, it allows me to focus on the work that actually makes me money and not get bogged down in the other details. My shop's repair orders have jumped over 300% since switching to TechMetric, and when I need help, their support team responds in real time. I actually was online with them asking questions just this week, and I got answers in minutes rather than having to wait for callbacks and emails days later.
If your system is holding you back, it's time for a change. Tap the link in the show notes and see how TechMetric can help you move your shop forward. Our goal is to make our clients expert at their customers when they call in, every interaction, right? Yeah. The second piece, cut through the noise. That's the analytics side. We all have data, we all have reports.
It gets overwhelming, frankly. And owners don't have a ton of time to do a lot of things and figure out what things are going on. So our analytics really allows them to put in projections, goals. They can see whether or not they're gonna hit their goals. A lot, we work with a lot of coaching companies and they use it with their coaches to help the shops do better.
That's the analytics side of cutting through the noise. We help them see their business in a new way, and they can actually go in and say, "Hey, I want to see these metrics all comparison so I can see whether or not these things had any correlation to them." And the last part is the CRM side of our business where we do campaigns, voice, email as well.
Well, email, SMS, and voice campaigns for us that give the advisors automated tasks, things like that, so you can follow up on with customers. And so to use any of your services, you have to at a base level use your VoIP service? Is that right? No, they're all in different packages based upon what the shop needs. We service shops that are, you know, a mom-and-pop.
We actually just talked to one. They're using their cell phones literally for their business, which we see. That's a way. And we have franchises, we have MSOs, we have lots of different types of organizations that use different pieces. So a lot of times what we say for the shop owner, if they're coming in, they say, hey, what do you guys do? And we ask them more about their business.
What are you using? What are you doing? What do you need? And sometimes just having analytics to actually see the data and what it's doing gives them an idea of what they need to do next. So we don't advise a bunch of irons in the fire. Don't throw everything at it. Like, hey, start with something first. At least get visibility. Visibility shows you a lot of what you need to do next.
And then we can figure out the other pieces. But everything is modular. You can add it on, select it in a package. And then we also do a lot with our solutions where we also provide to different like marketing companies, coaching companies, analytics, call tracking, inbound. We do a lot of marketing conversion. We give a lot of visibility into the actual communication you're having that also connects with all the marketing you're doing.
So we, a lot of shops will give their marketing company access to our software so they can go in and say, wow, okay, this is how the marketing's actually working and here's what we can do with your campaigns and set all this up. So I work closely with Turnkey Marketing. Yep. I assume that you guys, work with turnkey clients? 100%. Carolyn's great.
So two of my— shout out to Carolyn, by the way, Turnkey Marketing. Isn't she just a total badass? The director of marketing service. She is a total badass. Yeah, I mean, she's, she's an impressive individual. Absolutely. Um, two of my best friends in the whole industry are big songbirds for you guys. Um, Harrison Rusk and Henry Rogge in Hartford, Connecticut. Love those guys.
Um, and they've been telling me that I need to get on board with OctoRocket for a while now, and I'm I'm, you know, dumbass and slow to make decisions. I get analysis paralysis on almost everything. It'd probably be really bad for me to have access to more data and more analytics. But of the analytics that you provide that might not be available in my primary SMS, what are kind of some of the key things that are really big feature?
Like, for example, Harrison, And Henry, we have a group chat, the three of us, and we talk pretty much every day. They're always talking about inbound call conversions and I don't have the ability to track that. And also outbound sales conversions. Yeah. And I can, I can kind of quasi-track that with my closing rate. Right. So but tell me more about, about those statistics and how that works.
Okay. So I'm— we're going to talk about it, but I'm also going to ask you some questions as an owner. Okay. Because this is, this is an ongoing topic for us because of what the industry really— because like I said, we get a lot of our feedback from shop owners that say, hey, can you do it this way? Do it this way, because everybody runs it a little bit different, tweaks and things, right?
So when it comes to the topic of conversion, it definitely comes— this is the hot topic. So we are— we can do the inbound call conversion from your tracking numbers and all those things. But in terms of what the reporting piece that's a little bit different in the analytics, and I can't talk about analytics without talking about Rick Buffington, who really did a lot of the development.
Rick is our kind of data scientist, mad scientist. We keep him locked away. He doesn't get to come to events. Primary nerd. Primary nerd. Okay. He, um, Rick, I apologize for this, but he doesn't like being at the booth. But he, if you get him in a room with 1,000 people and talk about data and analytics, that guy lights up like nobody else.
So he loves this stuff and he loves figuring out how it needs to be displayed for the shop owners to improve. But That's a little tangent. Thanks, Rick, for all that. I support tangents. They're important. We gotta give a shout out. With the analytics, it allows you to put in your goals, allows you to put in your numbers. So we can do things where we set that up and we actually project that out.
I think I mentioned that to you, but we also do things like outrunning your overhead. We can show you when that's gonna happen, things like that nature. And also with the comparisons. So one of the things a lot of shop owners come to us to say, hey, I made these changes. I want to see how it's compared to last quarter, last month, annually.
So they can do that, set timeframes. But we also allow you to pick the metrics that are important to you. So if you want to say, hey, I need to see if there's a correlation between these things, or these things really matter for me to track annually and see, we actually do that and we give you the ability to select on those and then we'll depict those in a graph for you as well.
Stuff like that. So there's different ways of using it and different ways of seeing it. Frankly, uh, you know, there's also leaderboards. We can show your advisors and techs and all that stuff what they're doing and how they're, they're doing in their shop. A lot— sometimes shops will have it up on a big board. Yeah. So they can actually see what's going on and kind of get, you know, a little bit of competition.
I've struggled with that over the years because, you know, everybody read The Game of Work 10 years ago and, uh, and wanted to put a scorecard up. And, um, I had dudes who are immediately massively motivated by that. Yeah. And other dudes who are like, oh, fuck, no, I'm just going to be last every day. And I mean, some of my listeners are going to be like, well, then you should have fired that guy.
And but I think it, I think it comes down sometimes to culture of the shop too and how you're using it and how you're motivating your people. I definitely have seen it both ways coming from enterprise sales organizations where you see it, where every Monday you're putting the board up in front of everybody. And of course you have your sales guy who's like, oh man, I've seen this before, you know, song and dance where I mean, every month you're zero, every quarter you're zero, you start over.
Over, but yet he'll go out and just crush it, you know, and do his own thing. And so it's— it kind of works both ways. It honestly, it comes down to me when I think about it with our team, how do I help them just be successful? And does it help them be successful, or does it take away from what I've already been developing in the culture and the personalities that I have in the business?
So we've kind of seen it both ways. Some people love it, they like that kind of competition on the board, and some people go, that's not going to work in my shop if I put that up there, you know. Like, two different ways. Like, for me, I'm I'm very competitive and I'm driven and I love seeing the score. I want to know if I'm winning or losing, right?
Yeah. And so when I was just a service advisor for my dad, there were 5 advisors on the counter. It was a big shop. And, you know, we're getting close to the end of the month and I'm in second place. I'm like out in the parking lot directing traffic into parking spaces and opening the door for them. That kind of obnoxious stuff that makes other advisors hate you, right?
But at the same time, my wife is, my wife is a pediatric dentist. She works in an organization that has like 100 practices. And so they have several hundred doctors and they publish the average daily production by doctor in their internal newsletter. And that includes like all the orthodontists and the pedodontists and the generalists. Yeah. And it is a demotivator for her.
She's like, "I don't wanna see that. I'm gonna do the very best I can for my patients every day until I've seen every patient on the schedule, no matter how late I have to be." And so she's internally motivated by quality and pride in what she does, and she's demotivated by that. So we're the two ends of the spectrum. Yeah. —so this is a bit of a soapbox, a bit tangent rabbit trail here—but one of the things that sometimes leaderboards can do is mask management.
And I'm a big believer that management is—you're fortunate to lead people, you're fortunate to manage people, because they're putting their livelihood in your hands. And you can either help them be successful, or you can cause problems for them. And sometimes leaderboards don't show that, because the leader themselves are ultimately responsible for what's on that board. Mm-hmm. Deming was one of the people I read a lot about, and a lot of stuff he breaks down is basically like it all boils down to management process and management.
And that might be the person doesn't need to be successful at your organization. They could be successful somewhere else. Yeah. What do you tolerate? Right. And so I think in that case, it really comes down to are you owning what's on that board as a manager, as a leader, as a GM? So that is not just their problem. It's how am I coaching them?
How am I training them? Where are they not being successful and how can I help them be successful? And that's what we all struggle with day in, day out is like we just have to own that stuff. Yeah, I think maybe that's one of the things that's playing into it because in my wife's situation, they are, they publish it and goes out to every employee of the company and then they never talk about it.
It's like this passive-aggressive. Oh, really? It's like a white paper that you just shoot out into the ether? Yeah, and right next to, you know, the recipe of the month, you know, some crazy shit. So, um, I, I'm sure that some consultant somewhere that they paid a lot of money to said you should do this. Yeah. And there was the lack of all the other follow-through that you talked about, about the discussion about what the numbers mean and why they're important and how to, you know, have impact on that and what the other considerations are.
You know, a general dentist is never going to outpace the sales of an orthodontist. Right, right. Generally, I shouldn't feel bad about being behind all of the orthodontists in the practice. Yes. I mean, it points to you got to really know the business in order to make sure you understand what that is, not just put it next to, you know, a recipe for a pie.
Always going to be behind the master technician, you know? Yeah. So cool. Well, I did— I answer the question you asked? I don't think so. I don't think I answered. We were talking about conversion. You got out of it. So this is why I'm coming back, Mike, because this guy skated right by it. So you asked about conversion, and we can show reports and stuff, but this has lately come up because we talk about conversion.
Do you, you want to— yeah, I can cover it. So right now our report is call conversion, very first-time call conversion, and the current metric is, hey, are you a first-time caller? We know you're a first-time caller, we've never seen your number in the system before. Hey everybody, I'm going to take just a quick minute out of our show to talk to you about one of the favorite tools that we have in my company to help streamline and make our guys as efficient as possible.
And that's Detect Auto. I've been talking about Detect Auto for almost a year at this point, and my team still loves it. And if you listen to the show, you know that I love the idea of bringing in skilled individuals from outside of the industry to add to our shortage within our trade, right? But one of the problems that you run into sometimes with that is that these guys and gals might not have a full automotive knowledge just yet.
And as a technician, if you've ever gotten a repair order that says check noise, you know how infuriating that can be. Well, this tool, the Customer Concern Tool, is designed specifically for that. The advisor can put in 1 or 2 or 3 words about what the complaint is, and then it's going to prompt them all the questions that they need to ask that customer.
And then it puts that into a paragraph form that's easy to understand for the technician. So that technician's not getting check noise, check vibration. They're getting all the information that they would like to have from the customer. It just makes things more efficient. It makes guys in the back happier, and it just makes the business run more smoothly. If you want to find out more about this and the other tools available on Detect Auto, just reach out to us through the link in the show notes.
Okay, here's the deal. Uh, at Vision, I recorded an episode with Keith Perkins and Seth Thorson, and I figured that we were going to talk about NASDEF stuff the whole time, but we ended up talking about AI the whole time. And they had just taught a class on building your own AI agents within your business, and it was an incredible conversation. And then after we recorded that, I went out into the show floor at VIZION and I talked to a ton of people who have been at the class, and they were talking about how 3 hours in that class had changed their entire perspective on AI, and they were building their own tools in just
3 hours of training. You know, it blew my mind. I've got to have that in my business. And so here's the deal on Saturday, June 13th, I'm flying Seth to Raleigh, North Carolina, and we are going to have a full day— not 3 hours, but a full day class, breakfast, lunch, and dinner included. If you want to come down the night before on Friday the 12th, we're going to do Friday night shenanigans at my business at the Car Fix Bar and Lounge.
It's going to be a great time. I think it's going to change the nature of how we do business. This class is for owners and GMs only. There are limited seats available for this class because it's very hands-on. You're going to need your laptop, you're going to need an active subscription to the AI of your choice. I recommend ChatGPT. GPT and Claude AI.
Early sign-up discount, it's $8.99. If you sign up after May 17th, it's $12.99. Tap the link in the show notes or scan the QR code on your screen to learn more. It's going to be awesome. We connect that to, did we get an appointment? Did we get a repair order? We don't currently track how many dollars in that report were generated from that conversion.
So we've been going back and forth. I'm like, this is a, that's a marketing conversion. We need a sales conversion version of the report. So we are building that and it will be available. But curious to get your take. What, what type of conversion is important to you? So marketing conversions are important, right? My job is to make the phone ring. Yep.
Service advisor's job is to convert a ring ring into a car in the bay. Technician has to convert the car in the bay into findings and needs, right, that then the advisor has to sell and collect. So there are lots of different conversions along that trail. The first and most important, I think, is converting an inbound call into a car, right? And ultimately, I think an appointment is probably enough because no-show rate's pretty low now.
You don't have a ton of people that are no-showing I don't have a ton of people that are no-showing appointments. I don't know if it's a problem industry-wide. What are you seeing with the pool of data that you have access to? Is the average first-time inbound call conversion rate? I haven't— go ahead. It ranges from, if we're doing marketing conversions here, anywhere from 20 to 40%.
Okay. First time is what I typically see. Okay. So it takes 3 to 4, 3 to 5 calls to generate a car. Mm-hmm. So, um, from an owner's perspective, I would say, what can I do to lower that number to 1 to 3? Mm-hmm. Um, is that the quality of my marketing spend? Am I advertising more intelligently and getting better qualified calls?
Do I have erroneous calls because I've got some, you know, bugged out page, uh, landing page on my website, right? Uh, so how do you help? So it's not your job to help people increase that number, you're just reporting that number, right? But we do, we do provide the tools to help with that because in that report, you as an owner or manager can go through and listen to those calls that didn't convert and be like, well, was it somebody looking for bodywork and we don't do bodywork?
Was it somebody they called the wrong number, you know, because of the way the ad was structured. So we can definitely give you the information to fine-tune that. At the end of the day, if it is a sales problem, we're not going to solve that for you, but we can at least show you, you know, what the outcome was of that call.
Yeah, and I think from my perspective, it was coming from the line of questioning of logistically, how would you use it during the course of ownership of the shop or talking to your people? What, what thing are you looking at to then go, okay, I'm looking at conversion, marketing conversion to a car, and that's a metric that I'm gonna use as a KPI with my advisors, and I'm going to be able to talk to them?
And then from the second side, you know, how would you use that just kind of during the course of operation of the business? And so it sounds like you'd break those up essentially between advisor and technician for those types of conversions. I think, you know, from a marketing perspective, it would be I want to know what How many calls from my direct mail piece equals one car versus how many calls from Google Ads equals one car versus how many calls from my community outreach efforts.
Yep. You know, and then it's for each of those funnels, or however you want to phrase it, I don't know all the right buzzwords, but for each of those avenues of inbound calls, what's the average repair order, right? Is the customer— what's the customer retention? Are they one-and-dones or do they stick? Yeah, yeah. Because then I can find out, well, my spend through this avenue to get a car that sticks and spends money— I'm gonna— I'm willing to spend a lot more.
Your acquisition costs. Yeah, yeah. We actually have, um, within the customer information that we gather and build basically a customer detail and journey, you can build reports off of that and tag different customers. And I only bring this up because one of our Euro shops came to us, he said, you know, I'd love to I see the inbound calls converting to these things, but I'd also like to tag them and find out, did that ad bring in the type of car that gets me to higher— Yeah, right.
Quality score. Yeah. So he was— it was Land Rover. He was asking, you know, did it bring in this type of Land Rover? And so you can actually tag that and do it. We were looking at that, but I thought it was interesting thinking about it. Not only did it convert, did it convert to the car that makes you the most money?
Yeah. So it doesn't matter if a bunch of people with Bugattis call my store. It's not going to make any money for me. Yeah. So, um, right. Or, you know, '93 Chevy Corsicas. I don't want those either. So get me in the sweet spot. Once a Chevy Corsica, I'm trying to think, um, are there any left? I don't know. Maybe down here, probably.
There's no rust down here out west. Yeah, so maybe. Still don't want it. Yeah. Yeah. I think you have to, like, never mind. Sorry. If you're driving a Corsica, it's because you don't have a Yeah. Tell us in the comments. Yeah. Yeah. Do you still have it? And why did you get it? Yeah. 704 confess. That's right. 704 confess. So I'm doing a coaches panel tomorrow morning and it's got, you know, 8 different coaches from, from different coaching organizations around the industry.
And I'm going to ask permission. I don't know if they're going to let me do it or not. I probably should ask before the day before. They're kind of busy, but I'm going to sit down with my phone and put it down on the, on the table next to the chair. And I'm going to say, okay guys, 704-CONFESS, text in your questions that you want these coaches to be asked.
And that way, one, it's not like, hey, somebody run a microphone over to them. They got a stupid question. I don't want to read it. You're right. You can scroll or if they're just going to talk forever, you know. Yeah, I might not have time, right? You got 8 different coaches on there. An hour is going to go by quick. But if I have some extra time, you know, send me your zinger questions that I want to hear about.
That's good. Well, the panel today was fantastic too. I thought it was really good. Yeah, I mean, really good, insightful stuff. What's really— the dude from Christian Brothers was very quiet. He didn't— it's like, he was a bit— when he said that about the question he was worried about, boxers or briefs? Yeah. Like, man, I did not expect that one. So, well, and the weird part is, right after the mics went off, he said, and the answer is Commando.
Oh, did he really? I think he did. I think he did. All right. So So I'm interested to hear from you guys and I want to, I want to come back to kind of the history, like what you guys did before OctoRocket and what was the genesis of OctoRocket. But first, you're telling me that, I mean, you guys have had the ability to analyze a very large pool of data across the industry, right, over multiple years.
Can you tell me a little bit more about that and what are some of the interesting findings you've got there? Yeah, sure. I've got some pulled up. This year we're releasing— it's an industry report. Okay. It is a little bit unique in that we're pulling in shop data from our customers as well as some communication information. And when you think about doing communication, CRM, and the analytics of the business, we can see some really interesting things and try and make sense of it.
And of course, Rick spends many hours in his office with the door closed walking back and forth, pulling his hair out, but loves it. But basically, I pulled together some reports and some data just so we can talk through it. But the way that the report's going to be structured, we're hoping to release this Q2. If you don't mind, I'll do a shout out.
If you go to our website, oktorocket.com, O-K-T-O-R-O-C-K-E-T, or as we like to say, it's okay to rock it. It's okay to rock it. Mike, you knew it was coming. No, I didn't see that. I fucking love it. You can't unsee it. Okay, but there's a link for industry report. If you sign up, we'll send you the report when we get it. And the thing we're also going to do is when you go to the page, it's going to be reactive that you can actually put in some of your own data from your shop.
So if you're not a customer of ours, you can actually put in your data. We'll show you where you are in the rankings and also tailor the report that we're going to send to you. So we're trying to make it more, more kind of like a calculator. You can actually go in and say, okay, well, where do I rank, right? What is important to me?
Because different shops have different things that are important for them to look at. But We're essentially going to break it up in 7 different ways by percentile bands, revenue tiers, tech count, staffing, gross profit bands, effective labor rate, and regions. But I brought some that are essentially a couple of callouts from 2024 to '25 and some other different regional things. The thing that we saw from '24 to '25— now this is over 1,000 shops, right?
This isn't just survey data that people sent us. This is actual data. Gathered across all the different SMS systems that we integrate with. But close ratios from '24 to '25 decreased by 6.3%. No shit. Like they went from 50% to 44% or— Close ratios dropped on average by 6.3%. Well, I say on average, I might say that accidentally. We really look at medians because averages sometimes get peaks and things in there.
And data— Rick will correct me if I say it wrong, but So 6.3%, depending upon, you know, ARO, that could be quite a bit of change. So close ratios decreased, effective labor rate and GP per hour increased by 5.5% and 5% respectively. I believe that. Yeah. Everybody's raising their rates. Yep. Cars per day, what's your guess? 24 to 25? Vehicles in operation.
Went up a little bit, but not by a lot. I'm going to go with cars per day went down by 5%. It was effectively flat. I would say pretty close. Yeah. But it's interesting you say that when you think about the number of cars and we're talking about here at the conference about things being difficult, it makes you ask questions like if there's more cars, but it was flat, there's less— effectively less cars.
Yeah. Is there something about that? You know, you were talking about intervals are increasing, right? Yeah, uh, that's definitely a part of it. And I also think that we're talking about '24 and '25 there, we weren't really feeling a pinch until the second half of '25. First half of '25 was still kind of happy days, it felt like. Yeah, maybe that's anecdotal from my own experience in my marketplace, so I don't know how the country— my market has been relatively economically secure.
I haven't had felt a lot of, uh, the pressure that might be felt elsewhere in the country. So, right. Yeah, we call those the salad days from Raising Arizona, if you recognize that reference. Um, at all? Don't you? Don't? Never seen it? Never watched Nick Cage? Raising Arizona? I hear it's great, but no, never seen it. You gotta go watch it. It's fantastic.
Anyway, parts cost. Came down by 1.5%. Down? So that means people are buying shit parts then? Mike, I don't know what they're doing. I don't know what price has gone down. Yeah, I mean, you're looking at the data. I'm looking at the data. I'm just telling it how it is out of the data. But, um, wait, so that's a, that's a percentage as a percentage of the retail cost of the part, right?
So that might mean that they're cranking up their margins. The cost. Yeah, and then margins went up. Yeah, so maybe they got aggressive on their parts metrics. Yeah, which one of the finders in here is about parts cost control. The number one driver of GP we found was just parts cost control. Look, when I first opened my shop, I thought my old systems would keep up, the software that I had would continue to evolve, but as we grew, the slow estimates, scattered workflow, increasing downtime, it really just— it was becoming a real problem.
That's why I switched to TechMetric. It's not just software, it's a complete shop management system that makes my life easier. SmartJobs, instant estimates, integrated payments, integrated financing options. I mean, it allows me to focus on the work that actually makes me money and not get bogged down in the other details. My shop's repair orders have jumped over 300% since switching to TechMetric, and when I need help, their support team responds in real time.
I actually was online with them asking questions just this week, and I got answers in minutes rather than having to wait for callbacks and emails days later. If your system is holding you back, it's time for a change. Tap the link in the show notes and see how TechMetric can help you move your shop forward. Um, labor costs went up by 5.3%.
That sounds low. Jesus. Yeah, it does. I mean, there's certain areas definitely, and I mean, again, this is regional and across American— that's just me being jaded. Don't worry about that. That's right. Um, I mean Looking at it, the thing that we really come to is that the close ratios is the biggest gap. And how do we do that? How do you increase close ratio in your shop to improve things?
But that was kind of the biggest thing. As far as regional performance, the highest we saw was out of Euro in the Northeast. They lead at GP per hour at $194 on a median. And then highest ARO was around $1,120 for average repair order. You have a region? Well, okay. But you think about the type of— yeah, the type of shops that use OctoRocket are not typical shops.
It depends. It depends. We do have some that have, uh, high-end stuff that they go through their shop, so high ROAs. Yeah, I would say that an OctoRocket client shop is already better than average to be looking for tools like that. Yeah, if they have analytics, they're trying to understand their data. Yeah. Yeah. Um, okay, so back up to the closing rate because that is a a big variance, 6%.
You said it went down 6%, but went from what to what? I don't have that for you. I just know it went down 6.3%, but it will be in the report. All you got to do is go to oktorocket.com and click on industry. So there you go. There you go. But out of that, when we look at the median tech quote that we saw was $1,482, $1,482.
And 254 cars per month, right? If you raise the close ratio on that by 6 points, that would increase your ARO, and then that would be $24,475 more a month. Yeah. For 6 points. I mean, 6 points of close ratio, 6% GP, that number adds up in a very big way. Yeah. Over time. And that's what we're— feel like we're a window into a conversation we had with our team earlier this week.
We had a full team meeting Tuesday night, so Just got just a couple of points, move the needle a couple points, it's going to make an enormous difference. Well, that actually, that makes me ask the question because we provide a lot of the data. We both had shop experience. I GM'd a European shop many, many years ago. He grew up in shops and his dad shops.
But you as an owner, what do you do to invest in your service advisors to close that gap? Or that, is there something that you're doing to try and raise that point margin? Well, so the first thing you got to do is figure out why you are where you are, right? So the conversation stemmed from us being abnormally low for the previous month, and we had a spike in major jobs, a lot of engines and transmissions, a lot of tire jobs, that kind of thing.
And so that's going to drive down GP, but it's going to drive up GPH. And so that's what we saw, that GPH was also very high. So So, you know, the net effect is okay on that front. But just, you know, what gets measured, right? Gets done. And bringing it to front of mind for them that, you know, hey, don't just trust the estimate to be good to go.
Review the estimate, look at your GPH, look at your margins. You know, you check RepairPal and see, are we under the window for what's expected? Are we leaving some— are we leaving some meat on the bone there? Um, and just be thinking in terms of how do we maintain the quality standard that we expect, because we're not going to go get, you know, Chinese parts for everything, right?
Um, because we want to maintain that 5-year warranty that we're putting out there. But we also have to maintain margin, because if we're putting a 5-year warranty out there, we got to stand behind it for 5 years, right? The margin's got to be there. It's got to support the business. Um, and so I I think if you've got the right team members, explaining the why is 90% of the work, right?
And then, you know, we tie compensation directly to gross profit. So, and that seems to kick it into high gear. Yeah, seems to incentivize that. It's weird how incentives work. Yeah. Don't forget though, any incentive-based pay plan is the devil and it's horrible to incentivize people to do good at their job. I hear you. I smell that sarcasm. That just kind of came right across the table.
Another Altoid. So, okay, give me, give me backgrounds. You referenced that a little bit. Brad, start with you. Tell me about your, your history in shops. Yeah, so I grew up in my dad's shops. He had started with a single shop in Illinois in '93. I was 14. So, is your dad Doug McAllister? Doug McAllister. Yeah, my dad was in a 20 group with him.
Okay. Yeah, back in the day. That's awesome. Yeah. Uh, Earl O'Connor first and then Elite. Yes. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. So that was my dad. Okay. Still your dad. Still my dad. He's still fantastic. Um, he eventually had 3 shops. Growing up, I figured I would be a tech, probably maybe an advisor, but I got into the whole computer thing and I was like, Dad, this— I like this stuff too much.
I was always their IT guy. I would, you know, that was my job. I'd work on the computers back when it was, you know, all data was on DVDs or Mitchell, and we'd swap them out and I'd build disk towers and all the crazy stuff. So I grew up doing that, went the tech route. I worked for Cisco Systems and I was a voice engineer.
That was kind of my— the route that I went. And I started building him voice systems. I'm like, oh, this is cool. And we could do all this fun recording and stuff, but it was complex, expensive. And I started tailoring things for just his shops, and then his buddies in the groups would be like, "Hey, we want it. We want that too."
I'm like, "I got to figure out a way to build this in a way that works." So eventually, I started building the voice, the CRM piece, and they'd say, "Well, what about this?" And I'd start linking different things together. And it was just a side hustle for me until 2 years ago. 2 years ago. Yeah. And I ran it under Digital Concierge, or DC was the name of the company back then.
So as a side hustle, I was working at Cisco and then I went to Twilio, learned the whole SMS world. And I loved all that. But DC got too big and I had way more fun building my own stuff. Yeah. So then I got connected with with Rick. We had mutual customers. They were asking me, hey, can you build the reports OctaRocket has?
They were asking Rick, hey, can you do the phone system and CRM? And we're like, ah, should we do an integration? What would this look like? And then eventually we're like, let's just merge this thing together and build something awesome. So we did. January 25th was when we officially merged companies. And it's been awesome. We've been growing like crazy. Eventually we're like, we need somebody to run this thing because I don't want to run it.
I want to do all— I want to build stuff. Rick wants to build stuff. So we found this guy and, um, it's been, it's been good. So yeah, we have a lot of fun. I mean, you think about what organizations, what kind of makes them different, the people who are in them, obviously. And we have a blast. So hopefully you can tell we, we enjoy joking with each other and kidding around, but it We've all grown up in technology and been around, you know, large companies, large enterprises.
And we're just super thankful to be doing what we're doing together and to be in this industry because we find it a lot of fun. That's super cool, man. Yeah. So, and your background prior to this? I have had lots of different things of employment, but I've always gone through technology. I did GM a European shop. I would say I did not do it very well, and I have some definitely scar tissue from that piece of employment, but not well enough to know that I knew how to run it right.
But I was at a technology company, left there, went and did that, and then left and went back into technology. So my background is in telecommunications, customer experience, those types of things that I really grew up in. So building networks, building voice systems, And that's where it came through and used to manage software companies and then started talking to these guys. And what was interesting to me is that in the enterprise space, you see very large logos, very large brands that I've been used to serving.
Most of the brands we— you probably frequent. And I see them trying to connect different pieces of software to build a customer experience in the journey with their brand and their interactions. And I met these guys and saw what they were doing, I was like, you don't realize what you've done or what you've built is something that brands everywhere are trying to build.
And you mentioned at the very beginning about the competitive landscape. He came through Cisco, I came from Extreme through another manufacturer, and it was always, I mean, you were selling the exact same thing, right? So you're always high competition. But the thing in which we operate is that we've built it from the ground up and we own it. And we are very rapid in terms of how we were able to do things and tailor it for our customers in the shops, which is really fun to us.
We love it. And so as we build things and as we put them together, we can do a lot of cool stuff, which is what we're excited about. So the root of the question that we did talk about earlier that you just referenced was the, the competitive landscape. Yeah. Um, being, uh, having the skill set necessary and the experience to be able to code effectively was differentiator.
It still is to a degree, but that gap is closing rapidly with Clone Code and all the other tools that are out there, right? There are a ton of people who are racing to build tools that do what you guys do. Yeah. So you're going to have an ever more competitive marketplace for your services and tools that you offer. How do you stay nimble and stay on the leading edge of that, that curve in this?
It's like a tidal wave, man, coming right now. It's crazy. Yeah, it's, it's pretty wild. If I may, just on the AI side. Yeah. I mean, we have a lot of AI that we leverage and we use AI all the time in our business and how we operate because obviously augmentation and efficiency is everything when it comes to AI. At the same time, understanding what it's doing and the why behind of what some— it can do, we leverage it, we use it, but you always have to be really good at what you do in order to check it, right?
And as a software company, we're not gonna put anything out there that we don't fully understand, fully leverage, fully use, fully understand from a risk perspective to our customers and make sure it's gonna be a great piece of software. So yes, there is a convergence of AI being able to do things. You still have to understand and be able to craft and put those things together that are underneath it.
So there's a competitive landscape and those things are happening fast and we're leveraging them to also rapidly improve things. So that's my little like soapbox on AI, 'cause we get people a lot of times, they'll be like, "Oh, I'm creating this app or I'm doing this thing." And from a software company perspective, that's awesome. That isn't necessarily software that's deployable on a production scale to thousands and thousands and thousands.
That's like me being at the ballgame watching my kids play and the dude sitting next to me is like, "Oh yeah, I put brakes on my car yesterday." I'm like, "Great, dude, that's awesome. Good on ya." Yeah, exactly. It's kind of that you really do need to understand what it's doing in order to really effectively handle it. Now there's certain, there's great capabilities in different things, don't get me wrong, but we also want to do it in such a way that it has longevity to it, it has productivity to it for our customers, and it fits together and does the thing that we're going after, which is the North Star.
AI really is only as good as the stuff you give it. And so you have to stay in the driver's seat of it. And a lot of times when we talk about software and AI and the things people are building, and we see this, you've seen this in the open space, I mean, people build something and think, oh, this is great, I used AI to do it.
They're testing it for what they wanted to use it for. When we're doing QA, we test it for the things you don't want to use it for, right? I mean, what was it, Chipotle that had their bot out there and a guy said, why am I paying for Claude when I can just go to the bot and say, hey, I want to order a burrito bowl, but first answer this Python question.
Spit back the code. And he was like, you know, so stuff like that. I mean, if you're asking it the questions you think you wanted to hear, sure. If you're asking it the questions about, hey, do you think I should quit my job? Or do you think I should like, I mean, what was it? Rick was trying to get it to like an AI bot that we were working with on our own.
He was like, hey, can you order my Amazon order? You know, it's like, ask it the questions you don't expect it to do or you don't want it to do. That's the kind of stuff you're gonna do as a software company. But anyway, sorry, that was my little 5-second soapbox. No, I think it's spot on. From my perspective, because I run our dev teams, it's accelerating everything that we're working on.
But to your point, if you're not paying attention to the code, it creates some really crappy looking code and it's going to become the most unmaintainable code ever if it's not kept in check. So that's something that we pay really close attention to that, hey, we can, we know what it's doing. We're not just blindly, you know, hoping that it worked and then we deploy it out to thousands of customers and they come in on Monday and it's down.
You got to stress test it because— Yes. Yeah. Well, and I mean, to the point, it's efficient and optimization, it can help. And so in the arms race of software and us all getting to the things that we want to be and do, we're all using it. Everybody's using it. So the way that we can do it and augment our staff and help and do the things efficiently, absolutely, we're going to do that.
Any new tools or features coming on the horizon? Well, the biggest tool or feature that our customers are asking for right now, speaking of AI, are AI agents, voice agents. So we have it in beta right now with about 20 customers testing it. So after hours scheduling, things like that, or overflow. There's a few asking for primary, I'm not really sold on that.
Overflow and after hours. Yeah, those are the two that I'm really tuning it for right now. It's working really well. We're just kind of getting a sense of how customers interact with it because that's what I've seen is actually the biggest gap. They don't either one want to, they hear it's AI and they're like, click, and they hang up. So just kind of making it sound more human and not even announcing, hey, I'm an AI agent, seems to be more effective.
Really? Yeah, I would think it'd be like, hey, I'm Mike Allen's fake AI robot. Mike's busy right now, but I can answer your questions. They just hang up. Yeah, it's very interesting. So we've been kind of monitoring, seeing what type of messaging works the best, um, how customers are reacting, and kind of guiding the customer through their options. If you just want to leave a voicemail, fine, just ask to leave a voicemail.
Has latency gotten Is it quick enough now that it's conversational? Yes. And you can't, there's not that half a second delay that makes it awkward? Yeah, there's almost zero delay now. The only delay is if you need to do a lookup on a calendar to see availability and you're gonna have human delay there, so. Well, you can program ums, program in the ums and ahs.
Some comfort noise in there. Yeah. Yeah. So that's probably one of the big items that we're working on right now. We did last year launch Rocket Shield, if you wanna say anything about that. Rocket Shield was a big one. We're seeing, I'm sure you felt it, Robocalls are just a total time suck for advisors. They get lots of them, and when you're picking up that call, you're missing a potential customer calling in.
So we created Rocket Shield, and it's essentially— I don't know how your current phones work, if they ring straight through or if you have a menu in front of it. The menu is the best way to get rid of those spam calls, but a lot of shops are like, no, we want the personal touch, we want it to ring straight through. So Rocket Shield gives you that, the ability to do that.
If we see that the incoming number is a little fishy, you know how you get this potential spam on your mobile, we use those same signals, and then we can put a menu in front saying, "Thanks for calling, press 1 to speak to an advisor." That eliminates almost all those spam calls, unless it's an actual salesperson still dialing through. They're going to make it through.
And one of the unique things on that is for customers, again, customer experience is key in making sure that we're lowering friction to sales. And so once the customer, if a customer comes through and they have a suspicious number and they come through that, once they say, "Hey, I want to talk to somebody," we then record that number. They'll never hear that again, even if their call still comes to us as suspicious.
I mean, that's the whole point. If we can keep from that being the front experience and lower friction for the customer, then that's what we want to do. But we still want to effectively improve the time that your advisor is getting, having to answer calls. They're— For sure. It's an expensive resource, right? Right. So what I'd love to see is if I had phones and, um, you guys know I'm a happy, healthy Techmetric user, um, and I'd love to have Techmetric on one screen and I'd love to have my phone system on the other.
Mm-hmm. Um, and as I'm having the conversation with that customer, be that an inbound call where I'm trying to get them to come in to visit me or an outbound call while I'm, where I'm trying to sell. I'd love for the tool to have all of my base level scripts and all of my base level objection handling routines loaded and be able to identify the objections that the customer is giving the advisor and prompt them with the bullet points of how to overcome that objection.
It's like a, it's like a call coach in real time on the screen. In the contact center, we'd call that agent assist, which is essentially where you hear the conversation and you're putting up things for them to next best action. And sometimes those are defined in the journey of the customer and how that comes in. But yeah, so we definitely hear that a bit from customers about being able to do that and present those to it.
It's not something we have at the moment. Not quite. But Brad is obviously— here's the thing about Brad, he's the guy that's coding. He's going to sit here and write checks all day. You can't get him to do that. But it is a really interesting thing because if we can present done it in such a way that it helps them stay on script because, you know, that's really important, obviously, with the customer trying to close that close ratio for that gap.
Um, but yeah, we hear that a bit. We don't have it yet, but that's something that's important. Look, man, I need you as the, the face sales guy to be like, yes, we can absolutely do that, it'll be in 6 months, just sign up now. Yeah. And then it'll be on you to make it happen, deliver. Yeah, it's classic technology sales. I hear you.
I do. Well, Awesome, guys. I appreciate you guys taking the time to come and hang out with me. Yeah, we're honored to be here. Thank you. Yeah, Digital Concierge first and then Octo Rocket. My guy's been beating me over the head to get on board for years. And it sounds like I need to get off my ass and actually take action. So if I have an agent assist, you'll take a look at it?
Heard it here first. Okay. All right. Cool. Thanks for listening to Confessions of a Shop Owner, where we lay it all out. The good, the bad, and sometimes the super messed up. I'm your host, Mike Allen, here to remind you that even the pros screw it up sometimes, so Why not laugh a little bit, learn a little bit, and maybe have another drink?
You got a confession of your own or a topic you'd like me to cover, or do you just want to let me know what an idiot I am? Email mike@confessionsofashopowner.com or call and leave a message. The number is 704-CONFESS. That's 704-266-3377. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to like, subscribe, or follow. Join us on this crazy journey that is shop ownership.
I'll see you on the next episode. All right, guys, AI class. Learn how to use AI so that you can make it your bitch and you don't become its bitch. Saturday, June 13th, Seth Thorson's teaching a full-day class in Raleigh, North Carolina. Tap the link in the show notes or scan the QR code on your screen to learn more. It's going to be awesome.
More from Confessions of a Shop Owner

Ep 124 - James Hornak & Nathan Ward | These Shop Owners Are 14 Months In and Pacing $1.5 Million
Tekmetric transformed my shop. Plain and simple. Want that for yours? Touch HERETurnkey Marketing takes the stress of doing something I'm not good at off my plate. And gives it to someone who is. Click HERE for more.47 Consultants brings your shop’s story to life on social media, helping Carfix engage 60,000 people in Raleigh in just a few weeks. See what 47 Consultants can do for your shop, and tell them Big Daddy Mike sent you!Elite Worldwide's Ignite 2027 is coming up in February and NOW is the time to sign up. It's happening in Vegas February 4-6 and it will be the best 3 days of your shops year when you attend. Save $100 when you use code CONFESSIONS HEREWhen I used the maintenance tool for the fist time with Detect Auto, my mind was blown. My advisors had the same reaction - and then SO MUCH MORE TIME. Learn more about Detect Auto and book a free demo now!Mike Allen catches up with James Hornak and Nathan Ward roughly a year after their first appearance on Confessions of a Shop Owner—and a lot has changed. Their shop now has three full-time technicians, has been running roughly 180 cars a month at around a $955 ARO, and is pacing toward approximately $1.5 million in its first full year. They explain the strategy behind their controversial $29 oil changes, what happened when their first $100K month convinced them they could change roles too quickly, why finding the right service advisor has been harder than expected and how coaching and involvement in the industry accelerated their growth. Mike also opens up about the management mistake that wrecked his own shop culture, they discuss building strong DVIs without trying to sell every discovered item immediately, and Nathan casually declares that the goal for next year is $3 million. Oh—and James and Nathan finally reveal that they were behind the mystery Mike Allen shirts that had him accusing half of ASTA Expo of conspiring against him.Timestamps:00:00 – Mike Discovers the Mystery Shirt01:26 – Martini Bar at ASTA 😂02:24 – Is the Mustang STILL Broken?04:19 – One Year of Insane Shop Growth06:01 – Hiring Three Technicians in Year One09:24 – 180 Cars a Month & $955 ARO10:42 – The $29 Oil Change Strategy12:25 – Pacing $1.5 Million in Year One16:50 – Mike’s Shop Culture Fell Apart18:59 – $100K Month → $60K Month20:38 – Mike’s Best Service Advisor Was a Bartender21:48 – Why Coaching Changed Everything23:44 – Should They Buy a $2.5M Shop?27:54 – Paying Off Debt & Building the “F You Fund”28:30 – WHO MADE THE MIKE SHIRTS?! 😂38:04 – Profitable Enough to Spend Money on a Joke53:28 – The Free Diag Debate Returns55:59 – $5,300 in Discovered Work58:58 – The $3 Million Goal1:03:03 – From Startup to $1.5M Through Community & Coaching

Ep 123 - Caleb McElmurry | When Should a One-Man Shop Hire Its First Technician?
Tekmetric transformed my shop. Plain and simple. Want that for yours? Touch HEREIf you're like me and aren't good at marketing, don't do it on your own. Let the experts handle it. Touch HERE for more on Turnkey Marketing.47 Consultants brings your shop’s story to life on social media, helping Carfix engage 60,000 people in Raleigh in just a few weeks. See what 47 Consultants can do for your shop, and tell them Big Daddy Mike sent you!Elite Worldwide's Ignite 2027 is coming up in February and NOW is the time to sign up. It's happening in Vegas February 4-6 and it will be the best 3 days of your shops year when you attend. Save $100 when you use code CONFESSIONS HERE When I used the maintenance tool for the fist time with Detect Auto, my mind was blown. My advisors had the same reaction - and then SO MUCH MORE TIME. Learn more about Detect Auto and book a free demo now!Mike Allen and Bryan Pollock welcome Caleb McElmurry to talk about the realities of building a repair business when you’re still the technician, service advisor, estimator, parts department and owner all at once. Caleb started mobile, moved several hours away and essentially started over with a brick-and-mortar shop—and now he’s intentionally waiting until the business is consistently ready before hiring his first technician. They debate why hiring a cheap apprentice first can actually make a solo owner less productive, how many billable hours might signal that it’s time to hire, what types of jobs a startup shop should avoid and why some European cars can eat a new shop alive. Caleb also explains why his first major training event is focused almost entirely on business and service-advisor skills instead of technical classes, and the conversation turns into ASE certifications, technician licensing, customer communication, $1,000 AROs and why owners shouldn’t go home from training and try to change their entire business Monday morning. The bigger lesson: being great at fixing cars gets you started—but learning how to run the business is what determines what happens next.Timestamps: 00:00 – Why Startup Shops Should Be Careful With European Cars05:13 – Meet Caleb McElmurry06:01 – From Mobile Mechanic to Brick-and-Mortar07:09 – When Should Caleb Hire His First Technician?09:22 – Why Your First Hire Shouldn’t Be Cheap Labor10:05 – How Busy Should a Solo Shop Be?13:00 – Tow Trucks, Winter & Small-Town Shop Life16:00 – Stop Giving Jobs the “Go Away” Price20:29 – First Training Event: Don’t Implement Everything23:00 – Why Caleb Isn’t Taking Technical Classes25:00 – Should Automotive Technicians Be Licensed?30:00 – ASE, Apprenticeships & Industry Standards33:00 – Just Get 1% Better34:00 – Caleb’s Service Advisor Process36:42 – Do Customers Need Prices Explained First?38:00 – A $1,000 ARO in a One-Man Shop39:00 – Caleb’s Plan for His First Technician41:12 – The Difficulty of Turning the Business Off43:13 – Late Nights at ASTA

Ep 122 - Trey & Sasha Holley | Stop Looking for A-Techs. Build Them.
Keep shop management, payments, marketing (all the things) all in one place with Tekmetric. It will CHANGE YOUR LIFE. Click HERETurnkey Marketing has made my life SOOO much simpler, AND they've helped keep the phone ringing. Do you need these two things too? Learn more HERE47 Consultants brings your shop’s story to life on social media, helping Carfix engage 60,000 people in Raleigh in just a few weeks. See what 47 Consultants can do for your shop, and tell them Big Daddy Mike sent you!When I used the maintenance tool for the fist time with Detect Auto, my mind was blown. My advisors had the same reaction - and then SO MUCH MORE TIME. Learn more about Detect Auto and book a free demo now!Elite Worldwide's Ignite 2027 is coming up in February and NOW is the time to sign up. It's happening in Vegas February 4-6 and it will be the best 3 days of your shops year when you attend. Save $100 when you use code CONFESSIONS HEREMike Allen sits down with Trey and Sasha Holley, owners of a 10-bay repair shop in Thomaston, Georgia, for a conversation about growth, technician development, working with your spouse and building a business that can eventually survive without you. Trey and Sasha share how losing Sasha’s father suddenly forced them into the business side of automotive before they were ready—and why watching him work himself relentlessly shaped the kind of shop they want to build today. They also explain why struggling to find an experienced A-tech completely changed their hiring philosophy after they took a chance on a high-school student, bought him a toolbox and developed him into a productive young technician now learning diagnostics. The conversation gets into their 400-hour backlog, whether becoming a multi-shop operation is actually something they want, succession planning for their son and the uncomfortable question of what happens to your business if you die tomorrow. And in true Confessions fashion, Trey eventually admits that one of his shop’s biggest historical problems wasn’t employees, technicians or customers—it was his own attitude.Timestamps: 00:00 – Do You Really Need an A-Tech?01:29 – Meet Trey & Sasha Holley03:59 – From Two Bays to a 10-Bay Shop05:38 – Being Thrown Into Business Overnight06:15 – Losing Sasha’s Dad at 5108:57 – Starting Their Own Shop11:02 – Running a Business With Your Spouse13:03 – When Employees Play Husband vs. Wife16:40 – Moving a Technician Into the Front Office18:17 – 400 Hours of Approved Work19:27 – Stop Looking for A-Techs—Build Them20:50 – Teaching a Young Technician Diagnostics22:49 – The Never-Ending Growth Problem23:56 – How Much Growth Is Enough?25:39 – Building a Shop Their Son Can Inherit26:08 – What Happens If the Owners Die Tomorrow?28:36 – Mike’s “Oh Shit, I’m Dead” Book35:08 – What Happened to Sasha’s Dad’s Shop?38:04 – Their First ASTA Expo47:03 – Stop Making Excuses and Show Up51:09 – Trey’s Confession: “The Problem Was Me”52:44 – “I’ve Only Had Two Leave in Tears” 😂

Ep 121 - Marketing Call #2 | Are Your Advisors Accidentally Turning Customers Away?
Tektonic 2027 is coming up April 1-3, and if you missed year 1, you MUST NOT miss year 2. It's bigger, it's better, because is Tekmetric's conference. You know it's gonna be the best conference in the history of conferences. Get lower pricing now HEREMy marketing before and after signing up with Turnkey Marketing is pretty scary. In a good way. Get your marketing right today HERE47 Consultants brings your shop’s story to life on social media, helping Carfix engage 60,000 people in Raleigh in just a few weeks. See what 47 Consultants can do for your shop, and tell them Big Daddy Mike sent you! Make your techs happier with Detect Auto. They'll stop getting "check noise" or "check vibration" from advisors with the customer concern tool. It will CHANGE YOUR LIFE. Book a demo HEREElite Worldwide's Ignite 2027 is coming up in February and NOW is the time to sign up. It's happening in Vegas February 4-6 and it will be the best 3 days of your shops year when you attend. Save $100 when you use code CONFESSIONS HEREMike Allen sits down with Carry-Lynn Rodenberg of Turnkey Marketing for Marketing Call #2, and this time they dig into what happens after your marketing actually works. Mike shares the numbers from his shops—including nearly 2,700 inbound callers in September, roughly 550 unanswered calls and a call-to-car conversion rate of only about 33%—and they talk about how much revenue can disappear when advisors accidentally repel customers. They also discuss handling negative Google reviews, why customer retention may be more important than buying more leads, ways to fill an empty schedule, and why overwhelming customers with massive estimates can sometimes hurt long-term relationships. Carry-Lynn also explains how Google and other AI tools are changing local search, why shops need to be prepared for AI-generated phone calls and why lazy AI use may eventually make every business sound exactly the same. The big question throughout the episode: Do you actually need more marketing—or do you need to stop wasting the customers you already have?Timestamps:00:00 – How Advisors Accidentally Push Customers Away01:08 – Mistakes Happen—Your Response Matters09:34 – Google Reviews & Rebuilding Reputation11:48 – How to Respond to a Bad Review13:37 – What Mike Learned From His Negative Reviews15:46 – You Paid to Make the Phone Ring—Now Convert It18:44 – Measuring Call-to-Car Conversion20:48 – Mike Missed 550 Calls in One Month23:46 – Google’s AI Is Calling Repair Shops28:46 – “Be Nice to the Robot” 😂30:42 – Could AI Capture 100 More Cars a Month?32:50 – Is a Huge ARO Destroying Customer Retention?34:49 – Only 24% of New Customers Came Back39:59 – How to Win Back Lost Customers43:16 – What to Do When Next Week’s Schedule Is Empty48:01 – Easy Customers Already Sitting in Your Database49:35 – Marketing Priorities for a Smaller Shop53:34 – The Most Alarming Thing About AI Marketing57:10 – Bad Marketing Decisions & AI Slop
Related across the catalog

The Power of Financing: A Growth Tool for Auto Repair Shops [RR 1108]
Thanks to our Partners, NAPA Auto Care and NAPA TRACS Watch Full Video Episode What happens when a customer needs a $2,000 repair but doesn’t have the cash available today? That moment can determine whether the vehicle gets repaired, the customer delays a critical service, or they take their business somewhere else. For automotive shops, offering flexible payment options can be more than a convenience. It can be a powerful tool for helping customers say yes to the work their vehicles need. Kwane Stokes, Assistant Vice President and Relationship Manager in the automotive division at Synchrony, explains how the program can help shops remove financial barriers, increase repair opportunities, and create another reason for customers to return. Kwane also addresses why many shops still aren't offering financing and how the biggest obstacle may simply be the assumptions advisors make about a customer's ability or willingness to pay. What You'll Learn Why financing should be presented as a payment option, not something an advisor decides a customer needs.How the program's average first and repeat purchase amounts demonstrate the potential impact on average repair order (ARO).Why assuming a customer can't qualify for credit can cause shops to lose needed repair work.How monthly promotional offers can give shops another reason to communicate with their customers.How advisor incentives and simple training can encourage more consistent presentation of financing.What the upcoming "waterfall" financing model could mean for customers who aren't approved through the primary credit program. The biggest opportunity may not be finding more customers. It may be giving the customers already sitting at your counter more ways to say yes. The key is removing the assumption that you know what a customer can or cannot afford. Present the options, explain them clearly, and let the customer decide what works for their financial situation. For a shop, financing isn't simply about collecting payment. It's another tool for helping customers get the repairs they need while protecting the relationship and keeping the work in your shop. Kwane Stokes, AVP, Relationship Manager, Auto Network, Synchrony Learn more about the benefits of being part of the NAPA family by visiting https://www.napaonline.com/en/auto-care NAPA TRACS will move your shop into the SMS fast lane with on-site training and six days a week of support: http://napatracs.com/ Connect with the Podcast: Download Our Mobile App:https://automotiverepairpodcastnetwork.com/app/Website:https://remarkableresults.biz/YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/carmcapriottoFacebook:https://www.facebook.com/RemarkableResultsRadioPodcast/LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/carmcapriotto/Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/remarkableresultsradiopodcast/Join Our Virtual Toastmasters Club:https://remarkableresults.biz/toastmastersJoin Our Private Facebook Community:https://www.facebook.com/groups/1734687266778976Join our Insider List:https://remarkableresults.biz/insiderBooks Page:https://remarkableresults.biz/booksOur Classroom Page:https://remarkableresults.biz/classroomEpisode Collections:https://remarkableresults.biz/collectionsBuy Me a Coffee:https://www.buymeacoffee.com/carm The Automotive Repair Podcast Network: https://automotiverepairpodcastnetwork.com/ Remarkable Results Radio Podcastwith Carm Capriotto:https://remarkableresults.biz/Automotive Field TheorywithMatt Fanslow:https://mattfanslow.captivate.fm/Business by the NumberswithHunt Demarest: https://huntdemarest.captivate.fm/The Auto Repair Marketing Podcastwith Brian and Kim Walker: https://autorepairmarketing.captivate.fm/The Weekly Blitzwith Chris Cotton: https://chriscotton.captivate.fm/Speak Up! Effective Communicationwith Craig O'Neill: https://craigoneill.captivate.fm

Prepare to Deliver: What Smart Owners Do During Slow Times
In this episode of Repair Shop Reckoning, Kevin tackles a reality every shop owner will face sooner or later: What do you do when the phones slow down, the bays aren't as full, and the panic starts creeping in? Too many owners react by cutting...

Profit Panel: How 3 Shops Put $750K+ to the Bottom Line in One Month - Bonus Zoom Episode 7
Glenn Piccolo hosts the Profit Panel: Charlie Zlatkos, J.J. Mont and Lynn Massengill to reveal how auto hospitality, mindset shifts, pricing strategy, parts purchasing and execution drove dramatic profit gains across varied markets—from rural Tennessee to rust-heavy Boston. The episode shares real results, practical tactics (rack attack, key-to-key, follow-ups, part-shopping) and leadership lessons you can apply to increase net profit and transform your shop. autoshopanswers.com auto-shop-media.com

218 - What Your Opt-Outs Reveal: Your CRM Isn't Broken. It's Being Misused
218 - What Your Opt-Outs Reveal: Your CRM Isn't Broken. It's Being Misused September 9th, 2026 - 00:55:22 Show Summary: Most CRM systems are capable of producing results but the way shops use them can weaken customer relationships. Mass messages often focus on filling bays instead of delivering value customers actually want. Strong retention starts by understanding communication preferences and earning permission before sending messages. Shops can build stronger relationships by creating meaningful reasons for customers to stay connected. Automation can support that process but it should never replace genuine human communication. Returning customers should become a primary measure of success because lifetime value matters far more than a single repair order. A retention focused culture can create steadier car count and stronger long term growth. Host(s): Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development Guest(s): Craig O'Neill, VP of Training Autoflow Show Highlights: [00:02:45] – CRM systems work but shops often misuse their capabilities. [00:06:32] – Mass text blasts can create opt outs instead of appointments. [00:12:10] – Effective communication must focus on what matters to customers. [00:18:18] – Customer retention should create meaningful relationships built on trust. [00:21:08] – Customers should understand why your messages provide real value. [00:27:36] – Promotional mass texts require proper permission before being sent. [00:33:28] – Retention should become a goal across the entire organization. [00:35:02] – Returning customers can reveal more than traditional sales metrics. [00:41:12] – Give customers a compelling reason to return after every visit. [00:45:35] – Safe reliable vehicles provide a powerful purpose for follow up. In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode. 👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://youtu.be/10RC8L1nKhM Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this! Links & Resources: Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com. Episode Transcript: Jimmy Lea: Hello, welcome. Glad to be with you today. It is Wednesday, so excited for Webinar Wednesday. Coming to you live from the road. I'm in Eugene, Oregon, here at Brian Slater's shop in Eugene, Oregon. This is the North Eugene Auto Repair in in Eugene, and so coming to you from the road. Thank you, Brian. Jimmy Lea: Appreciate you letting me use your office today as we're out and about visiting shops. It's just an awesome, gorgeous weather here in northern U- northern... no. I was gonna say northern Utah. I'm not in northern Utah. I'm in Eugene, Oregon, and this is not northern Utah, but it is gorgeous weather. Jimmy Lea: So if you don't have gorgeous weather where you are, you wish you were here. We're gonna have a great conversation today. Those of you who have comments, questions, comments, put them into the chat section. That chat section comments allows us to have this conversation back and forth. I will be the voice for You've got questions, comments, concerns for our guest, want to make sure that those are voiced for you, put them in the comments section. Jimmy Lea: My guest with us today is ever-present, ever-linguist, Mr. Craig O'Neill of AutoFlow. Craig, how the heck are you, brother? Craig O'Neill: I'm really good, Jimmy. Really good. I was actually thinking northern Utah, as you mentioned Utah, even though it was Oregon. Both places are beautiful. I can't blame you for the distinction issue there. Craig O'Neill: That was- that's all right. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. No it is absolutely gorgeous up here. Now, I will tell you that there is a large lack of mountains in Eugene, Oregon- ... Jimmy Lea: That northern Utah does have, is bounteous mountains. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. A lot of them. Yeah. I can't wait. Ogden, a couple, next month. Next month now is October. Jimmy Lea: Yes. October for the Mars Conference. Craig O'Neill: Yep. Jimmy Lea: Yes. Yes. Speaking of Mars Conferences we're gonna put up a QR code for the Mars Conference. If you scan this QR code, it will get you right onto our registration page, and those sticking around to the very end, there is this very special, very unique offer for anybody who wants to attend the Mars Conference. Jimmy Lea: So stick around, scan the QR code. Save that in your smartphones. We are gonna have a great conversation about marketing. Craig is one of our presenters at the Mars Conference, and super excited for Craig to be here. Craig and I have known each other for a couple of years now, and worked together at a couple of companies, and- Jimmy Lea: glad that we are able to still be friends here in this wonderful industry that we call home. Craig, what are we talking about today? Craig O'Neill: Jimmy, this is the, one of my favorite topics to go into. We're talking about CRM systems, of course. Now I have some opinions about CRM systems. Both of us come from a background that deals in these systems. Craig O'Neill: You have opinions as well, and you have some observations, and my observation is simply this: the systems themselves are capable of some pretty cool things- Jimmy Lea: Yeah ... Craig O'Neill: but we aren't using them very well. The it's not broken, they're being misused, is the title of our conversation today. Your CRM isn't broken, it's being misused. Craig O'Neill: And I don't like to walk into a conversation with "Oh, you're doing something wrong", or on the opposite side of it, I don't like to walk into a conversation as you guys are doing it right. You're just fine, but other people are doing it..." Like I, I've used stuff wrong. I've made mistakes in how I leverage the different systems and tools that are available, and I just believe, and I hope you just go along with us today, there might be a better way than our way that we're approaching it now. Craig O'Neill: Be open to that. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Be open to it, because what they're, what you as a shop may be doing today is working. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. It's not even a debate. It is getting results of a certain level and type that are appearing to be adequate. Jimmy Lea: Adequate for today. And hopefully with this conversation that you and I are gonna have as we talk about the customer relationship management software Hopefully there's something we can expose shops to that might say, "Hey, maybe there is a different way of doing this." Craig O'Neill: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: So what are these ways? What are the five mistakes that shops make the most, or not the mistakes. What, how can we help these shops improve? Sure. I would call Craig O'Neill: them hurdles that we have to get over, right? Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. This one it's an opportunity for us to make it better. It's an opportunity to make it better. Jimmy Lea: This is what it is. It's not a mistake. You're not doing it wrong. Consider this. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. We're gonna talk about a lot of things on this, and I think before we even get into those hurdles, let's talk about the nature of communication today. Yeah. People's attention span today, because I think that there's a couple of different things that we need to understand. Craig O'Neill: And first off, let's talk about why we even wanna leverage a CRM system. And for many shops, you might have a sustainable s- sort of automatic practice here, but when you're a busy shop, you feel very successful, and then all of a sudden things are not as busy as they are. This happens to all of us. All the time. Craig O'Neill: We've ... shop, Jimmy, our transmission shop, family business that I came up, down into grew up in, and like we never had a slow spell. The shops around us always had those little slow spells, and we're like, "Yeah, we don't." And that was a good feeling until it happened to us, too. So we're all vulnerable to it, and the knee-jerk reaction that I see is this. Craig O'Neill: People as eventually hit that slow spell. They check, see if other people are experiencing it, too. We comfort ourselves with the fact that others are doing it, defining it as a, a market-wide symptom of broader events that we have no control over. And so then we can just comfort ourselves with another idea. Craig O'Neill: It's like, "Ah, it'll come back around." And I heard this over, and over again from my family who is owner of the business, my, my dad and my grandpa, because that has been the experience. It always comes back around. Why would we ever be okay with the fact that a slow spell also technically always comes back around? Craig O'Neill: And if our knee-jerk reaction to those moments is then to go into a, a degree of marketing or a degree of follow-up or a mass blast text strategy, like I see a lot of people fall into is like, "Huh, the work needs to be drummed up. We'll turn to our CRM system. We'll construct the perfect message and send it out, and then people will make appointments and fill our bays." Craig O'Neill: Sound familiar? Jimmy Lea: Oh, it does. It does. And if we know those, those times are gonna come back around because it's cyclical, what are we doing? We... It- Yeah ... is preventable. What are we doing that we can prevent this from happening and being that cyclical item? Because- Craig O'Neill: This is, this goes straight into it, because what I see people doing with the knee-jerk response is they're actually crippling their ability to handle the cycles of this. Craig O'Neill: When you do a knee-jerk text blast response, what's the number one reaction that you get to it every single time? Opt-outs. They are the most common reaction to this, and that's what I... If you go on the socials and you look on comment threads of shop owners experiencing a slow spell, they're asking each other "What's the perfect message that you can type out that gets fewer opt-outs and more appointments?" Craig O'Neill: There isn't one. There is no perfect message that gets X number of people. The ratio will never be the same in two demographics with unique people being the customers or clients in every one of the unique repair facilities that we have. There is no perfect message. Jimmy Lea: No. They're not. They're looking for that silver bullet, Craig. Craig O'Neill: Yes. It's silver bullet is the right term for this, and I discussed this on my podcast in an early episode of the podcast Speak Up: Effective Communication on the Automotive Repair Podcast Network. It was episode 14. I said, "What your opt-outs are really telling you," and I think that what they are telling us is something we need to listen to. Craig O'Neill: So now on that, let's move into the attention span of the people in the world today versus the past. And Jimmy, I love to read. I love deep thoughts, and we're gonna get philosophical for a second. I know you don't mind. Love it. We love this. Yeah. Let's Jimmy Lea: go. Craig O'Neill: Signature classic, C.S. Lewis. One of my favorites, Screwtape Letters. Craig O'Neill: In the early chapters in that book it's describing... I won't go into the details of Screwtape Letters, but the way that you distract someone if you're trying to distract them from serious thoughts in C.S. Lewis' time period was, and I'll quote here from the book that- Got the guy to think he was hungry, and then I showed him a newsboy shouting, "The midday paper," and the number 73 bus going past, and before he reached the bottom of the steps, I had him into an unalterable conviction that whatever odd ideas might come into the man's head when he was shut up alone with his books, a healthy dose of real life, which he meant by the bus and the newsboy, was enough to show him that all that sort of thing just couldn't be true. Craig O'Neill: He knew he had a narrow escape, and then years later was fond of talking about it. I w- I'll skip ahead. But thanks to the process which we set at work in them centuries ago, they find it all but impossible to believe in the unfamiliar while the familiar is before their eyes. So this is hard to digest 'cause it's C.S. Craig O'Neill: Lewis. You... It's like a tough piece of wonderful, awesome, the best flavor steak in the world that you gotta chew on a whole lot of times before you can actually get to digesting it. But the point is, C.S. Lewis's era, the distraction was you wanted to get them into this stream of events and that's your business is to fix his attention on the stream. Craig O'Neill: Teach it to call it real life, and don't let him ask what it means by real. And that stream is exactly what people are having today. This is a word used by C.S. Lewis before streaming like we are on a webinar, streaming across the web even existed. What distracted a man? Just being on the street with a bus and a newsboy shouting. Craig O'Neill: That's yesterday. That's 1940s United Kingdom, actually, in C.S. Lewis' time. Let's fast-forward Johann Hari's book, Stolen Focus: Why You Can't Pay Attention and How to Think Deeply Again, absolutely nails the same point in the modern age and puts a name to it with this term called the f- this frenetic digital interruption, and he says, "Is pulling our attention away from our thoughts and suppressing your default mode network," cool term. Craig O'Neill: I think we're almost in this constant stimulus-driven, stimulus-bound environment, moving from one distraction to the next, and if you don't remove yourself from that, it will suppress whatever train of thought you had, right? And I think that frenetic digital distraction really i- it's just, we have to acknowledge this is the reality we're in today, and there's people that are struggling with notifications and attention, and bombarded with media messages. Craig O'Neill: Every news article you read has the pop-up ads. Are we in that same zone like C.S. Lewis, where a newsboy and the sign on a bus is the only thing that could distract our attention? No. We are under a constant 24/7 assault for our attention span today. That's where we're communicating from, and when your shop gets a little slow and you decide you're gonna have a knee-jerk reaction to the slowness, and you expect a message to land that leads to action with a population that's drowning in this reality, would it be any surprise that it only sees marginal results? Jimmy Lea: Is there any irony that it is called streaming? Is there any irony that it's called a reel? No. Craig O'Neill: Jimmy, it's like the oldest problems are always resurfaced again in our lifetimes today- Yep ... with different technology. Jimmy Lea: Oh, it's totally different. And now it's 17-second blurbs about it's a seven-second commercial, it's a 17-second commercial. Jimmy Lea: We're being bombarded with this instant stimuli to totally distract us from what is actually real- Yes ... and consequential, and you're being bombarded by things that are momentary blurbs of Jimmy Lea: Endorphins Craig O'Neill: Yeah. It, and it just- It's a Jimmy Lea: temporary- Craig O'Neill: You're competing with that- Yeah ... tendency too, to escape with these things. You're spot on. This, this topic is why I lead into these five barriers to that are causing us, like the things that we're misusing in our CRMs, right? Yeah. I consider them barriers or hurdles because we can get over them. Craig O'Neill: Yeah ... and we can decide to lever it right. And number one and we have a slide for this, so I put it up there. I know some people like to read and some people can listen. I wanted to put this quote on there because... And I'm gonna, fatal sin of speakers, I'm gonna read the quote. I know it's on the slide, but I know some of you can't see it, and I know some of you are only listening. Craig O'Neill: Yes. I can't read it. Oh, Jimmy, I'm sorry. It's too small. Too small? Oh, that's okay. That's why I'm here. Yeah. So- You can Jimmy Lea: read all of them. Read all of Craig O'Neill: them ... it's a big meaty slide. Problem number one though is we're not communicating to people on what matters to them. That's the problem. And to reference this point the, a great read, and please write this down, pick up this book, How to Win Friends and Influence People in the Digital Age. Craig O'Neill: Amen. If you're interested in this topic at all, read that book. It's from the Dale Carnegie and Associates. So updated for the digital age. There's so many profoundly good things in this, and this is a quote I pulled straight from the book, and I wanna make sure it gets its proper reference there. Craig O'Neill: But it says, "When it comes to mattering to others, you must discuss what matters to them. Assume all else will fall on deaf, or in this case, dull ears. This is an interesting principle to consider given the spirit in which the vast majority of people are communicating today. Most messages are primarily meant to educate others about our lives, our products, to reveal compelling portions of ourselves we think others would be attracted to. Craig O'Neill: While this appears to be an assertive strategy, it is actually a passive strategy in that it requires others to connect with us." "The trouble is that's marketing monologue, not relational dialogue. It's assumption, not assimilation. When assumption guides our efforts to befriend or influence others, the results end up on the wrong side of memorable." Craig O'Neill: Okay. End quote. That is that's another, like I'm giving you solid food to digest today. That's, that's- ... we don't have time to go this layer of depth in our presentation at Mars, so that's why I'm really happy to have this conversation today. It's a primer. If you walk in primed with some of these thoughts, you're gonna be able to get a lot more out of it. Craig O'Neill: But here's where I go with this. We are communicating from a position of our interests most of the time in the auto repair shop. When it slows down, we're interested in filling our bay. If we were really interested in having those customers come in, we would have done the harder work of relating and documenting and managing the data, all sorts of things differently to have a sustained conversation that they understood the value in, because we understand what's important to them. Craig O'Neill: And that's a whole different thing, and that's gonna come up again as we move into these, these other hurdles. But I think that's the thing, first and foremost, remember what messages right now are you pushing out there that are not memorable? I didn't give this in the slide, but I have an example recently, Jimmy very recently. Craig O'Neill: I turned 43 earlier in August, and I'm not on social media these days. The one thing that was fun is getting all those birthday harvests. You know how you get all the happy birthday thing. It's actually a lot of work. Yeah. Then you gotta go like everything and all that stuff too. But don't worry, I don't miss that entirely because I have been a patron in local businesses that have CRM systems in my neighborhood chiefly my Subaru dealership where we have a, a vehicle leased presently. Craig O'Neill: And I got three happy birthday emails from three separate people in that organization. Two of them were identical emails automatically constructed, and there was a neat little quote in the bottom of one of those emails. It actually said, "This email is automatically generated, and we do not monitor replies to it." Jimmy Lea: Oh my God. That's- Craig O'Neill: But it was a beautiful picture of balloons with the branding of that dealership on it. Oh, it was touching. It was such a great birthday blessing to receive that on Sunday afternoon. Jimmy Lea: Had it been from an actual person and not an automated system would've made it even better, but... Craig O'Neill: Sure. But does the birthday greeting from a business actually land on the memorable side of communication, or is it a cheap and simple automated gimmick to feign that you care with a direct interest that is more for the business's benefit rather than it is for my birthday, right? Craig O'Neill: Congratulations, you captured my birth date in a data field in a system that is automated to generate a joy, because I don't unsubscribe because I love these examples. It really was a gift for me that I get to use and communicate from. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. And that's good. That's good. Craig O'Neill: But no, this is a common thing, and we've we've seen this strategy. Craig O'Neill: You and I have been in the CRM space for a while, and you've seen that given as a best practice. We wanna capture the, birth date and month, not the year. Birth date and month. And then you can have these sort of birthday messages go out. All right, maybe you have that strategy applied in your shop. Craig O'Neill: Is that a wrongness? No. Maybe some people really appreciate it. I think a lot of people don't give it a second thought, and that's the majority. Jimmy Lea: They probably don't, but they also aren't sending it from an email that is not being monitored and not gonna reply. Craig O'Neill: Let's hope not. Yeah. ' Jimmy Lea: Cause if Jimmy's Super Shop were to send you a happy birthday message, it would purely be a happy birthday message. Jimmy Lea: There's no other ulterior motives whatsoever. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Jimmy- And you would reply and say, "Oh, thank you so much, Jimmy's Super Shop." We would reply again to say Craig O'Neill: I would hope so. Yeah. Now, my experience in birthdays are one thing, but all sorts of messages. I know when CRM automation occurs, and I'll touch on this at Mars a little bit further the team is not engaged in that part of the process, and it's difficult for them to engage in the inbound Present Jimmy Lea: conversation. Jimmy Lea: Yeah Craig O'Neill: Yep. There's a, a loss of continuity there. So I do feel a lot of times there's automated things going out from a shop, but there is actually no behavior that is being encouraged or directed or accountable any accountability layer for the team to be a participant in that. So it does play in that. Craig O'Neill: But this goes to number two which I think is at the root of the whole problem, and this is, again, another quote from the Dale Carnegie and Associates. First off, problem number two we're not cultivating a community, and this, this principle comes for me from my study in this book. And as I was reading that book, assessing how shops are leveraging CRMs, this stuck out. Craig O'Neill: And it says, and I quote, "Often forgotten is the long-term plan. Businesses call it a customer retention strategy, but it is best thought of as a lively, meaningful dialogue among a community of friends. If the foundation of all long-term success is the establishment of trust-based relationships, then the goal of all interactions should be to convey value as soon and as often as possible." Jimmy Lea: Not just birthdays. Craig O'Neill: Not just birthdays as a data field. What's meaningful for a client in a repair shop? What's meaningful to them in a repair shop? What is the purpose in our community, and how are you articulating the value of staying in touch so we can continue to express what this purpose is and how it benefits you? Craig O'Neill: And by the way, Mr. Client, it's very important, save this number in your phone so that you recognize that we're a contact 'cause you can reach out to us here, and we're gonna be here if you have any questions. And that's starting to get to the sense of community here. And Jimmy, this is getting more important. Craig O'Neill: In today's world, here's a tip for y'all right now. I want you to open up your phone, go to your text message app, look at the spam folder How many messages do you have in the spam folder of your messages app, whether you're using Android or Apple, does not matter. Automatically, messages are going straight to those folders with default settings from the phone's operating system and device. Craig O'Neill: There's a bunch in there, and a lot of it probably is spam, correct, Jimmy? Jimmy Lea: Oh, I'm pretty sure all of it's spam. Craig O'Neill: A lot of times it's very accurate in mine. I- I've only on occasion seen one or two messages in there. Here's how your shop is gonna land in the spam folder. If the client never accepts you as a contact and never engages in the dialogue with you in text. Jimmy Lea: Yep. Craig O'Neill: And so the manifestation of this, and I've started to see more of this recently, very recently, just this summer people sending a DVI link to their client, for example, but the client claims they never got it. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Craig O'Neill: But they do receive- Because it went to spam ... messages without the link went to the spam folder because sometimes those links are just being interpreted when it's not saved as a contact. Craig O'Neill: The solution is to get it saved as a contact. Interesting little issue, but that takes a little effort, doesn't it, to keep your client- Yeah ... to add you as a contact. There's some cool tools to do that, simple QR code scans, and lots of things we can do at the counter to help people through this problem. Craig O'Neill: But we need our advisors to express the importance of the communication and why they should want it before they'll ever accept it as a contact. Jimmy Lea: That's right. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. So interesting, right? So I think that cultivation of a community, that's the easy entry point. Help them understand the value of the communication that's coming and why we're going to be reaching you and make sure they actually do want it. Craig O'Neill: And that leads perfectly into hurdle number three. Hurdle number three is we are not gaining an opt-in for the purpose we seek. And Jimmy, you know this is true across the board generally for opt-ins and shop capturing, and we're gonna talk just a minute about this here as well. We'll do this after the next point. Craig O'Neill: The next point is a strong one on this. But you want the customer to want the message from you. Yeah. Does that happen automatically that they understand what you're going to be sending them and why you're going to be sending it? Jimmy Lea: Not unless you explain it. Craig O'Neill: Not unless you explain it. What's the value in it for them? Craig O'Neill: Why is there a benefit for them to be on a list in your shop for a certain type of message? I used an example earlier about text blast when it gets slow. And the mistake I see the most, Jimmy, is that shops literally have their all or repeat customer list, and they just hit this whole list with this message like, "Hey, we're slow. Craig O'Neill: Come in." Yeah. What if... just go with me here. Love it. What if you created a list that people could sign up and subscribe to in your shop? It's like, "Hey, if you wanna join our slow day list, there's a couple advantages of this. If you wanna just you have a few lingering maintenance items type of a thing, and we have openings we have a... Craig O'Neill: Maybe there's a promotion rate, or maybe it's just literally we can get you in and out because we know time is important, and we're not a discount culture anymore here, right? So maybe we express the speed of service. We know it's inconvenient to have the car down when it's quiet like this. We'll have loaners or rides available. Craig O'Neill: Whatever. There's benefits for you signing up on this list, so you can gain access to this thing that we're gonna do to make it better for you. Would you like to be on that list? We maybe send one or two of these out-" a quarter and perfect, right? And they sign up for that, so now you've got a warm lead list of people who are ready to fill your bays when they need filling. Craig O'Neill: How hard would it be to create that? Jimmy Lea: Oh, not very hard, and I wanna rename it already. I wanna call it the VIP available spots list. Perfect. Craig O'Neill: Yes. Yes. All sorts of things that you could do. Yeah, you could call it your membership list. Whatever. You go crazy. Have fun with it. Communicate the value of it. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. And you have some- My wife does this at art shows. She sells her art in these art shows, and she's found that even just the placement of the sign-up form matters. Like, when it's front and center, people who are waiting in line for the checkout now are able to sign into that book while they're waiting for their turn to check out with the art, and she gets way more signups for her email list. Craig O'Neill: Love it. It's perfect. Yeah, and similar practices are totally possible still today, but what do shops do? We automatically assume everyone wants to get any type of message we wanna have for any purpose, and we never clarify or distinguish any special type of thing, and thus they never get the opt-in. Craig O'Neill: And thus, what are your opt-outs telling you? Man, that's their first chance to talk to you about their preference for the type of communication you send. And you know what happens in an opt-out, Jimmy. You know as well as I do. That number's blacklisted at the carrier level. Jimmy Lea: Yep. Craig O'Neill: That's hard to undo. Now you gotta communicate to them about the value of reengaging in that by texting the word start to this number, and that's a harder thing for a busy service advisor or customer service rep to be able to engage in. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. No, it's true. It's true. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: We've gotta communicate with them on the level they want in the form that they want. And sometimes those opt-outs are them saying, "Look, I just don't want to communicate in this method." Craig O'Neill: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: But what do they prefer? Craig O'Neill: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Might Craig O'Neill: be. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: What's the conversation? Where have you built the relationship to continue that conversation on their preferred platform? Craig O'Neill: Yeah. Look, I cooked my cellphone a long time ago doing demos of AutoFlow at, with multiple instances. Now I get texts that I forget to clear out of their thing all the time. That texting's not the best way to get me during the day. I am, however, in my inbox. And I promise you, you have clients that's the same thing for them too. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. Or they don't even want... Now, go with me here. What if we had a list of people who prefer a phone call follow-up, Jimmy? Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. And there are. Craig O'Neill: Yes. Jimmy Lea: There's people that's what they would prefer. Craig O'Neill: Yes. 100% yes. And if you don't get the buy-in from that group, and you think everyone wants a phone call follow-up we already do this- You're wrong Craig O'Neill: at Chris' shop, Jimmy. Yeah. You wanna know in about 90 to 120 follow-up calls that we do in a week there we have a gal doing this for us, for Golden Rule Auto Care. Yeah. We get about 10 to 15% of those calls that go out end up with good connections. Like a good conversation. Jimmy Lea: Oh, they actually answer the phone and have a Craig O'Neill: conversation. Craig O'Neill: Actually answer the phone and have a conversation. Only 10 to 15% 10 to 15. Around 120 calls. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. I, Craig O'Neill: I- Not a huge number. Jimmy Lea: No, it's not. Because people are busy, and they don't wanna be interrupted. And those that want the conversations, they're the ones that answer the phone. And the other 80, 85%, 90% prefer a text message or an email or a Facebook message or purely nothing at all. Jimmy Lea: Thank you very much. Goodbye. Craig O'Neill: Let me ask you this, Jimmy. You got it, man. And when you get a phone call today from a number that's not a contact in your phone- ... do you answer it? Jimmy Lea: Voicemail. No. I- Craig O'Neill: Or screening? Yeah ... Jimmy Lea: I found the you push the two buttons on both sides, boop, right into voicemail. Done. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. I, I have, one of the call screener things on mine now. If it's not a contact, it hits that pretty much automatically. I don't answer my phone. I don't answer my phone. I then check to see the missed call, and if it is something important, I'll call it back. That's the world we're entering, and it's the same principle that we just discussed with that text message that i- if they darn a contact, same is true for the phone number that you're dialing from. Craig O'Neill: If that hasn't yet been saved as a contact, look, guys, your call isn't gonna be trusted yet. Area codes that are mine are the least trusted. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. Yes. But that's the world now, and we have to be able to recognize that and combat that. Yeah ... but that involves becoming that contact, agreeing to that type of conversation, and maybe making a note somewhere in your management or CRM system about those preferred lev- levels of contact. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. So- that's the hard work here, and I understand why shops that are low staff or only have one service advisor to five technicians, and he's also the CSR, and he handles payroll because he's also the owner, and yeah, it gets really tough really fast. And you have opportunity there when you're overwhelmed to hire someone else who can do these things, that's gonna add value to your business. Craig O'Neill: They'll be able to help cultivate these lists, which ke- it's more retention, guarantees you have the income and the cashflow to be able to support their livelihood, and everything gets better. But the starting point's really tough. Problem Jimmy Lea: Number four Craig O'Neill: Let's go. All right, this one's key. Mass blasts- Oh Craig O'Neill: without express written permission are against the law. True. And this is- True ... the really bonkers part of this is shops are loosely aware of this and yet they do it anyway. I forget what the fine is right now, and I'm not a lawyer. I'm not giving legal advice. Just disclaimer on that if you can put it in bold. Craig O'Neill: Yeah, no. But I think it's a $1,500 fine per offense, and if somebody knows that they did not expressly give you permission to text them very specifically- Jimmy Lea: Yep ... Craig O'Neill: text is what we're talking about here. Yep ... that's something they could sue you for and win every time. Notice a lot of the largest organizations out there with multiple locations do not engage in this method of follow-up Jimmy Lea: Because- They Craig O'Neill: know the targets Jimmy Lea: they've lost multiple court cases. Jiffy Lube is one that comes to mind. You can Google it. Court cases where Jiffy Lube had to pay out multimillion dollars because of their mass texting clients. A- and- and what's makes it worse is that they were mass texting clients who had opted out. Craig O'Neill: Oh. Oh, no. Craig O'Neill: So they had a blacklist failure- Yeah ... which is even another thing. So yeah, this is where, okay, you videcoders out there, I know you're out there, and I know you're even playing with APIs from groups like Twilio. And you might think "Cool, we can do texting real easy." Guess what? Start managing your blacklist because Twilio sometimes doesn't do it properly for you. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. And the carrier sometimes doesn't do it properly, and it is still you on the hook every time. And if you're giving your software platform to other people to use, your platform, unless it has clear terms and conditions, could also fall under some scrutiny. Oh, boy. It gets sticky. Investigate that. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. It does. It really is. So there's a difference between mass sending a marketing message versus pinpointing and being very specific. Craig O'Neill: Oh, I'm glad you bring this up, Jimmy. Yeah we have a slide on this. So CRM permissions are not actually the same across the board in multiple channels. So the- you probably use terms like transactional versus promotional, Jimmy, I'm sure. Craig O'Neill: But industry terms do vary from- from some- And our industry itself is not usually good at taking universal language- ... Craig O'Neill: And carrying it forward. But these three categories of- of text messages, I put this out. This is I don't have the source on here, but I pulled this source from online. Craig O'Neill: Conversational, informational, promotional. I wanna draw your attention to that blue arrow on the screen. It's kind of a bluish-green arrow, Jimmy. It's on that- Yep ... one, two, three, third row down, where it's talking about how that- that message is constructed. Messages promoting a brand, a product, or a service Or anything that prompts a consumer to buy something, go somewhere, or otherwise take an action. Craig O'Neill: That, if it's in that category, requires express written consent to be legal. Express written consent. Consumers may sign a form, check a box online, or otherwise provide consent to receive promotional text message in some fashion. That express written consent is the highest form of consent, and I haven't met an organization that's tracking it yet. Jimmy Lea: And through the TCPA- Yeah ... which is the act that governs over texting and how you can communicate, it used to be that you had to have a wet signature for that promotional message to go out, and you had to retain it for seven years even after you stopped your business. You still had to have it on file. Jimmy Lea: It's now changed. You can track it digitally. Yes. But you have to be able to provide the source, the date, the time, where it consent was given- Craig O'Neill: Yeah ... Jimmy Lea: for you to send promotional messages. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. Yeah ... Jimmy Lea: conversational, reminders, informational. Now and it's interesting you've got informational broke out here that you do need consent Craig O'Neill: Express consent, which is different than express written consent, and this was interesting to me when I started studying this too, and these things are pretty stable. Craig O'Neill: I don't see this element changing a lot. Yeah. But permission can happen over text on that, or on a form or a website, or verbally, and that's an interesting one. And that's just a message that contains information, just information. It's a status update, it's an appointment confirmation or a reminder. Craig O'Neill: Those types of things are information text, and that's handled- Yeah ... very differently than a promotional marketing text that's asking them to take an action. It tips towards promotional anytime you're asking them to click a link to schedule an appointment, for example, on your slow day blast type of scenario. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. That is a promotional text purely. Even if it's a deferred service reminder. Think about those deferred service drips that people have active in just about every CRM system in the world. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Craig O'Neill: That is asking the consumer to take an action, and this is exactly the type of thing I will be combating in, in, in our session at Mars 'cause we have a better way forward. Craig O'Neill: We can start talking a little bit about that here too. But those deferred work little drips are... Like, it's a strange thing to do. It's the thing your customer said no to during your visit that we're now assuming they want to receive an, a reminder about without any knowledge that this is coming, and certainly no express written consent. Craig O'Neill: And all of the burden is fully on them to take the action to make something happen about that still deferred work. Yeah. We aren't doing anything. We, in fact, automated the whole thing. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So what's- Craig O'Neill: It's a passive reminder, as we discussed earlier, right? Jimmy Lea: What's the better way? Are we gonna discuss that here, or are you waiting for Mars? Craig O'Neill: Oh, we can ta- we can talk on it here. So our better way is, it depends on our sense of purpose here, but I think let's go to barrier number five before we talk about that better way, 'cause I think this plays into the whole topic that we're discussing. And this is really the largest barrier, and it is the, the one that I think needs to be overcome before you fix any of the other ones. Craig O'Neill: We don't have our whole organization truly oriented towards retention as a goal What are we oriented towards then? Is the question I like to ask. And if you really stop and you really think about what your organization is structured to achieve, what is it? And it might be what you consider your most important metric might give you a clue. Craig O'Neill: I think it's an interesting question to ask, Jimmy. I do this a lot in different courses. I ask what's the most important metric for a service advisor or for a technician or for this or that?" I like to ask specifically for our front counter staff, whether it be a CSR, a reservationist, a service advisor, whoever we have working our front counter. Craig O'Neill: What is their most important metric? And you get all kinds of answers. You've probably heard every one of them, Jimmy. Closing rate. Those service advisors are like, "I sell 98.92% of all work I ever write up." Terrible stat, by the way, 'cause that's the work you write up. You can artificially inflate your closing rate on sales by writing up what you know will sell. Jimmy Lea: Yep. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. But I th- I'm gonna give you my answer. Jimmy Lea: Okay. Craig O'Neill: Your ratio of returning customers Jimmy Lea: Agreed Craig O'Neill: It's your most important statistic Jimmy Lea: If they're not coming back, you're doing something wrong Craig O'Neill: Correct. Yeah, I don't care what your ARO is really. It's an interesting stat to know. You'll establish baselines for all sorts of KPIs. Craig O'Neill: They tell you useful information. But is our goal to sell all of the stuff we find on every visit? And is our team like, "Is that's what's gonna impress the boss? That's what's gonna make him very happy"? Jimmy Lea: No, returning customers. Totally agree. Craig O'Neill: Yeah, because what's the value of one good visit, right? Yeah. Craig O'Neill: What's the value of one visit versus the lifetime value of a client? Jimmy Lea: Yes. The lifetime value has so much more weight to it. Neck and neck. Tens of thousands of dollars versus- Craig O'Neill: Hundreds. Yeah ... Jimmy Lea: hundreds that, for that one visit. Craig O'Neill: Some, yeah. Yeah. And o- I had family accounts, family accounts- Yeah ... literally in the hundreds of thousands with, For Jimmy Lea: the lifetime value? Craig O'Neill: Lifetime value of that particular individual. He had a lot of vehicles in the family. Jimmy Lea: And, What's the family fleet? Craig O'Neill: It's the family fleet ... it's a family fleet. It's Jimmy Lea: a Craig O'Neill: fleet Jimmy Lea: account. Craig O'Neill: Yep. Yep, but even when the kids grew up, they were still coming in as well, too, and that, the lifetime value of the relationships that turn into more things, like, man, if that's true, though, and we do this. Craig O'Neill: Jimmy, we pay lip service to this all the time in our industry. It's a relationship-based business. It is. And then we go and we emphasize we gotta sell this much, and this is our target for sales, and all this other thing, and it's and how much time really are we putting our human attention on our team's human attention in this frenetic age on retention strategy? Craig O'Neill: Yeah. How involved are they in your team right now towards the goal of getting people back in the door from the beginning of that visit to the end of that visit, and what happens in between, the humans involved? And Jimmy, you've been in this industry. It... Most shops, I hear they say, "Hey, my guys aren't gonna use this. Craig O'Neill: I just need this to be automated." Jimmy Lea: Yeah. We'll try and make it sound as personal as possible in that automation, but Craig O'Neill: Yeah, we use those cool little variables. Your service advisor gets filled in with the service advisor's name, all the automated message, and automation has merit. It does. We create, through automation, consistent repeatability of things that we want to have occur That's good, right? Craig O'Neill: It is. Jimmy Lea: Make it personable, and make sure you're responding. Craig O'Neill: And make sure you had a hand in that, and make sure you are responding. Correct. The service advisors know these are going out, they know when it's going out, and they're maybe involved in scanning to see who replied and who didn't, or maybe that's somebody's job in the shop. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. And we'll talk about this at Mars a little further. I believe it is somebody's job in the shop. We call... I call it the reservationist. A lot of people have a CSR. Yes ... it's a fun topic because... And it goes deep, and we have podcasts on that too. But dude, it's an orientation thing. It's if it's important to you, you're gonna do something about it. Craig O'Neill: If it's not important to you, you won't do anything about it, and that's the measure that, yeah, like, all right. So I just kinda threw a C.S. Lewis mindset at you. There's like this is one of the things I love about reading some of these, these thinkers, right? It's and of course, he's Christian apologetics and that sort of thing, but he said... Craig O'Neill: i'm breaking it down to just a simple point, like something is important or it's not important at all. Craig O'Neill: That middle ground in this topic, I think this is true, that middle ground's not given to us, which forces us to either have to decide, "Eh, it's really not important and we can continue as we are because we're okay with the results," or, "No, this is a really important topic. Craig O'Neill: Our strategy for getting clients into the shop is of actually critical importance to the ultimate success of our business, and is the most important thing that we should be focusing on to guarantee our success. So we're gonna really put in all of our effort towards this goal instead of just reacting to the chaos, reacting to the things that made it in today." Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Craig O'Neill: Wow. What would happen to your business with that focus? Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. Yeah. Man. We wanna exponentially increase it. We wanna rocket fuel this. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: And I wonder what the statistics are. There, there was a, a, a read a while ago that talked about restaurant industry was tracking this. How can they get a client to come back for the second dining experience- Yeah Jimmy Lea: and the third dining experience, and the fourth dining experience? And once they get 'em in for that fourth dining experience, they've got a client for life. Craig O'Neill: True. Yeah. I actually just had a interesting restaurant follow-up. I'm on the email list for one of the sushi joints here in Grand Rapids. I love sushi. Craig O'Neill: Love this place. We go Maru Sushi on Cherry Street. Fantastic. Next time you're in Grand Rapids, wonderful. Love going there with my wife. It's our go-to spot. We had a couple months of a dry spell there where we didn't make it in, and we were busy with art shows and all sorts of stuff. Sure. And I got an email that must have been triggered. Craig O'Neill: It's like their little lost customer reminder. It's like- Jimmy Lea: Yeah ... " Craig O'Neill: It's been a while. Here's a free app- appetizer" Okay ... for next, on, on your next visit." It was an interesting follow-up. I thought it was really good. Oh yeah, it has been a while. Man, I want sushi right now, is what I experienced with that. Craig O'Neill: And then, and there's a benefit for me right there in it, and I already wanna go there anyways. It's just been a while. Jimmy Lea: Yes. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: It's a great way of getting you back in. I, there, there was the example That the manager would go around and say, "Oh, is this your first time?" They had different colored napkins, so he knew- The servers ask us, they're the new ones that don't recognize us. Jimmy Lea: They ask, "Have you guys been in before?" It's like, "Oh, yeah." Yeah. All right. "You can hold on to the menu. N- unless you need it to show us that you haven't taken the order yet," right? Yeah. Yeah. The the managers are going around and they're giving away, "Hey, on your second visit, make sure you try the cheesecake, and here's a coupon for a free cheesecake." Jimmy Lea: You get me back for a $100 meal for a free cheesecake, is it worth it? Craig O'Neill: Totally. Jimmy Lea: What's that cheesecake cost you? Craig O'Neill: Cheapest marketing. All right. So look- Cheesecake more cost ... how much Jimmy Lea: money Craig O'Neill: do you spend on other marketing efforts for what kind of results? Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And we've got to do the optimizing everywhere. Jimmy Lea: We've got to optimize ourself in all the locations. There's, which is true. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: But also how effective, and it's extremely, ex- extremely effective when they're there at your shop enjoying the experience, you give them a reason to come back. Craig O'Neill: Yes. And I like what you said there, Jimmy, and I think that's worth drawing some out a little further. Craig O'Neill: What you described is what I we have an improv club in our Toastmasters club, so the we play a lot of improv games, and we've been taught the yes and- Yes and ... approach. Yes and. Yes and. It is, it's, so it's a rule in improv where one of the people in your troupe are make something, that's truth now. Craig O'Neill: You react with that. It's not, you can't go combat this thing. It's not this or this. It's these things now have to be recognized as, as connected. The reality of Jimmy Lea: what you create. Combining forces for something good. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. So you said- Using that idea ... all networks, all channels, and this is exactly it. Craig O'Neill: This conversation that we're having doesn't say "Oh, yeah, we just master this and we won't need to spend as much money in this other area." That's not necessarily the case. Now, although maybe you have have some restructuring of that, it's you do refine your strategy on how your team is engaging retention, and you continue your outreach efforts, and maybe restructure how your phone call skills and other things go into all the m- effort you did take towards generating leads actually gets converted into real clients that come back again. Jimmy Lea: Oh, yeah. W- I was talking to a shop the other day, "My marketing's not working. My marketing's not working. I need to redo all my marketing." Got digging into his phone call log, discovered 43% of phone calls were- Ooh ... not being answered. No. 43%. Craig O'Neill: This is the world th- that AI assistants are entering. Craig O'Neill: And Jimmy- Yes ... this is this is the deepest, saddest thing in the world for me. AI assistants are one, a thing that is i- in demand and two, that it's sometimes better than the Jimmy Lea: people. If you're not able to answer the phone, you need to figure out either you need a human that's there answering the phone, or you implement this AI answering system- Oh, man Jimmy Lea: that's tied to your point of sale that sees your schedule, that can schedule- Better Craig O'Neill: at containing the context and keeping the notes and everything else ... four different... Jimmy Lea: Absolutely. Craig O'Neill: Yeah, I know. Jimmy Lea: And it's true. If- I do not support the idea that the AI answering your system is going to replace your advisor. Jimmy Lea: Absolutely not. Yeah. Craig O'Neill: No. Jimmy Lea: You do need to answer the phone as quickly as you humanly possibly can, but if you're not able to, that's where you've got this backup that can take care of business. And it's an interesting thing. Craig O'Neill: And this backup Jimmy Lea: is just that. Yeah. It needs to be backup, not plan A. Craig O'Neill: Oh, not plan A. Craig O'Neill: And in fact, you need to be aware And we were having this conversation in our team, too 'cause our sales guys, when they're calling shops, they're hitting AI- Jimmy Lea: Yes ... Craig O'Neill: systems far more frequently than they ever used to, and it's interesting to see that volume go. But simultaneously, we understand, like, how do you feel personally when you call a business and the first thing you get is an AI? Craig O'Neill: Are you happy or a little sad about that? And in an election year right now, it has turned divisive. And we did tailor- trace this back to this really started about two weeks ago. Even in demos where we're talking about AI features- ... the data center issue is coming up. And, like, all these things are, like, top of mind, front and center. Craig O'Neill: "Oh, I can't believe you guys are engaging with AI stuff in this world right now." And it's oh, wow, hot button issue. You have an AI assistant, you probably are gonna have a 50/50 split. I'm y- I'm talking 50/50. Some people will love it and think it's fine or just tolerate it. The other 50% are going to hate it, hate you, and may never call you again. Craig O'Neill: And congratulations, now we're in 2026. Yep. Jimmy Lea: And I, I think the 50/50 might be a little, Craig O'Neill: I'm just thinking about how the elections play out- Jimmy Lea: Yeah ... for two different parties. I propose there's probably a 30%, maybe a 33% that loves it, 33%- Fair ... that hates it, and 33% that's in that middle that says, "Ah." Craig O'Neill: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: I Craig O'Neill: would love to see a strong third party too, Jimmy, but that's neither here nor there. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. So look at this though. We talked orientation. We don't have a whole organization structured towards retention. Now I had a great coach. Bob Greenwood was my coach. He passed away 2021. And I talk about this frequently. I echo what he taught me a long time ago, and he described our professional responsibility. Craig O'Neill: He asked the question, "What's our job? What's our job? What is your job?" I remember being the technician in the room that raised my hand, and I told him what he was expecting someone in the room to raise their hand and say. Jimmy Lea: Fix cars. " Craig O'Neill: I fix cars." Yep. He pounced. He was ready. This is what he did. I've seen him do it multiple conversations after that. Craig O'Neill: He said, "No. Your job, your professional responsibility, is to make sure the vehicle's safe, reliable, and efficient. That's the job. And that, Mr. Client, is why we do a multi-point inspection on every vehicle that we do, and we will send this digitally to you, and we won't let you down." And there's lots more that goes into that, but there's a whole underlaying sense of purpose about the service that we provided. Craig O'Neill: And if that is our job, to make sure the vehicle's safe, reliable, and efficient, we owe it to our customers to be participants in that- Yeah ... as a member of the community of which they are also driving in. It has direct benefits to us and the other people we love on the streets. But that's an orientation, right? Craig O'Neill: And if that is what you believe about your purpose in this industry- Amen ... yeah, we're gonna start following up with the strong ability to communicate that sense of purpose, and people will hear the conviction in there and that commitment that you made to not letting them down. And that is not going to be heard in your competitors. Craig O'Neill: If you master this, and you don't, you will stand out, I promise you. Jimmy Lea: It's true. It's true. Yeah. Craig, this is a, a phenomenal conversation that we're having, talking about all things marketing, customers, customer relationships. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Managing those relationships, communicating in their preferred method, form, and fashion. Jimmy Lea: This is gonna continue in our Mars Conference. I can't wait. Let's throw up that QR code again. If you are able to attend, and you are listening to this, today is... What day is today? Craig O'Neill: Today is the 9th. Jimmy Lea: September 9th It's called Wednesday. September 9th, intensive giveaway winners. Oh, don't forget the giveaway winners here, Craig. Jimmy Lea: We've- Oh ... le- but- Great Do you wanna announce the winners first, or do you wanna announce the the special giveaway for everybody listening? Craig O'Neill: Let's do the winners first, Jimmy. I'm excited. So we had a drawing as we had two tickets to give away to Mars, and we have two winners, and we'll be sending emails to these winners as well. Craig O'Neill: Winner number one, Preston Callahan. Winner number two, Jordan Jawarenko. And we will get those emails out to you and hope to see you in Utah. And yeah bring your hiking shoes if you wanna go up in the hills with me. I definitely encourage getting up in the hills. So- Jimmy Lea: Are you gonna be rucking? Craig O'Neill: Oh, see, when I'm in the hills I don't just bring useless weight, I bring actual hiking gear, so I just call it hiking when I'm actually in a mountain. Jimmy Lea: When you're in Utah, you go hiking. Yeah. Everywhere else it's Craig O'Neill: rucking. Yeah. Rucking is what I would call urban hiking. Jimmy Lea: It's for you flatlanders. Craig O'Neill: Yeah. Yeah. So no, I will definitely be ha- I have a pack, I have I put water in there for weight and snacks that I can eat, and the, the idea is you get it lighter as you go with that sort of stuff, but- Oh ... it's absolutely beautiful. So these- Yeah ... are the winners from the Autoflow drawing that we'd had. Craig O'Neill: Those of you who did not win on that drawing, we'll still email you and hope to see you in Utah. Take advantage of this promotion. I think it's gonna be a great conversation. I've done this intensive multiple times. Jimmy, I gotta give you guys some props on this because this is my favorite format literally in all events that I go to. Craig O'Neill: You're in one room together at your headquarters in Ogden, Utah- Yeah ... which is a cool town. Everyone hears the same presenter. We get everyone here asking those same questions, and then- Yep ... the next presenter's gonna be up, and then we do that. We have great food in between, and then there's breakout sessions afterward where we get to go and break out into groups and discuss everything that's done. Craig O'Neill: No one's missing any of the context from any of the presentations. It's not like you're in one session and then another session is going on and "Man, that would've been a cool talk too, but this is really good." You don't have any fear of missing out on anything that's happening. Everybody's a participant the whole way. Craig O'Neill: It's awesome. Jimmy Lea: Oh, and I love the, the vendors are included. Everyone is in the same- Yeah ... room, and we're having these conversations together. It's not just shop owner to shop owner point of view. We get everybody's point of view in on these conversations- Yeah ... which is super awesome. All right. So if you scan this QR code, grab out your smartphone, scan this QR code, this is a coupon. Jimmy Lea: It is on- coupon, oh, I hate calling it that. Yeah. This is a special member VIP. Because you are watching this webinar, this is a cu- the, this code is good until 12:00 AM tomorrow morning, Pacific Daylight Time The code is, and I have to switch over to my other computer, the code is Mars300. This is $300 off of the general admission pricing. Jimmy Lea: So you and a- anybody of the public that is out there, you will get the webinar, the the whole entire intensive, Mars Intensive at the institute member pricing. So use the code Mars, M-A-R-S 300, and that is good until, for in the next, what? 12 hours? Craig O'Neill: Yeah. Where are we? 10, 12- And after Jimmy Lea: you fill that out- Oh, 13 hours. Jimmy Lea: You got 13 hours. Ready, set, go. Go ahead ... after Craig O'Neill: you fill that out, email us and I will tell you my favorite two sushi joints in Ogden, Utah, and maybe we can even grab a bite there. Jimmy Lea: Ooh, that's great. And you know what? We do have a couple of more tickets available. There's not a lot, but there are a few more tickets available for that exclusive dinner with Cecil Bullard. Craig O'Neill: Nice. Jimmy Lea: We're gonna have some great conversations. Those that are speakers are invited to be able to be part of this conversation and it's an exclusive dinner with Cecil, so you're gonna have some really good, intense, great conversations with the speakers of the event, with Cecil being there. These are gonna be some really good focused conversations. Jimmy Lea: Those Craig O'Neill: are my favorite moments, Jimmy. Yeah, the event is one thing, but the conversations that happen throughout and at dinners these... If you're not frequently going to industry events like this is... You owe it to yourself to do this. The ideas that you get to go back with are phenomenal, and the connections that you make and the sense of community that you feel that, that's permanent Jimmy Lea: Agreed. Jimmy Lea: Agreed. Couldn't have said it better. Thank you, Craig. Oh, yeah. Congratulations to Preston. Congratulations to Jordan. Look forward to seeing you in Ogden, Utah, October 26th, 27th and 28th, right before SEMA Apex. And for those who are the adventurous types rent a car. Let's go drive down through Zion and Bryce Canyon and- Yes Jimmy Lea: I'm sure Craig Craig O'Neill: and- Zion. If you haven't been to Zion National Park, what is that place? It is beautiful. It is. Southern Utah, phenomenal, dude. I could go... We have another hour here, so we can just talk about Southern Utah. Man, dude- ... you guys have got the pocket of beauty in this world. It is phenomenal. Craig O'Neill: Like- Jimmy Lea: It's gorgeous. Yeah. It is gorgeous. Craig O'Neill: Absolutely. You will... And Salt Lake City's no joke either. You fly in there, you're gonna think, "This is amazing," and it is. And then you go to Southern Utah and you think "What is... It gets better?" Jimmy Lea: Yep. Yep. Glad you had a great experience with your family down there in Southern Utah. Craig O'Neill: Dude, my wife and I are flying out a little early. We're staying through the weekend before the Mars Intensive we're gonna be hiking some hills then too. It's hard to get the bigger hikes in between the event stuff. Jimmy Lea: Yes. Craig O'Neill: It gets dark- Yes, it is ... it gets hard on the mountain. Jimmy Lea: It does. It does. Jimmy Lea: Even with that, it's not quite enough. I got you. With that, thank you, Craig. I appreciate you being here, brother. Oh, thanks. Thank you so much. Look forward to Mars- Can't wait ... the Mars Intensive. Let's continue this conversation. Let's get in deeper with these conversations and have a great time. I will see you there. Jimmy Lea: Thank you, everybody. See Craig O'Neill: you soon.