Episode 263 - Overcoming Addiction and Trying To Find Purpose in the Automotive Industry With Cole Tanner

0:02Hey folks, David here, and I'd like to thank you for joining us for the Changing the Industry podcast. Lucas and I started this podcast with the goal of capturing the frank and open conversations you typically have at industry events. Those conversations cover the challenges we face in our business and lives, as well as difficult repairs, new products and services, and everything in between.

0:26We hoped that these recordings would spur our listeners to enact the change they'd like to see in their own lives and businesses. That's also why we've partnered with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence. My first management class was with Cecil Bullard, and his genuine passion for helping others in an honest and ethical manner permeates his entire organization. And if you need some of the Institute's help, they have a special offer for our listeners.

1:00Click the link in the show notes and get signed up for a free business analysis. They'll go over your current situation and give you advice on your next steps. And they have everything from free resources and online classes to peer groups, one-on-one coaching, and specific help for MSOs. So don't miss out on this great offer. Click the link in the show notes.

1:26And now on to the podcast. Hey, you do— you want me to clap just for old time's sake? Do you have a recording? Yeah, it's recording. Do you have blue flashy lights? Yeah, you got blue flashy lights. Yeah, you're about to clap. I can clap fast now because it's like Sup? This is gonna be all messed up. What? What's already messed up?

1:53We need to slide that. Oh no, you said that you were sick. I'm a little bit worried about sitting this close to you. Well, I don't know if you can do anything. Well, what now? Wait a minute, you're getting me out of the frame. What's up with that? No, that's good. You come in a little bit. I just needed to move over.

2:09Just saying. What? He's trying to avoid your sickness if you're getting sick. No, you should be good. Yeah, because I'll just crop like this. So like that little spot there, you got just the nose, the tip of your nose. You know, one downside to this setup is like, if it's loud in here, we're not going to be able to hear what he says.

2:26I know. Is it? Because I can't hear anyway. Something about like the mic up. I mean, would that help? Can't hear you. I can't hear you. Can't hear me right now. Oh, okay. Okay. I got what you're saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a thing in Vegas. We went to dinner, put some bass in my voice. That's right. We went to dinner last night.

2:42We had to yell at each other across the table. Yeah, it was loud in there, man. Yeah. Where'd you guys go? We went to the Rock House. Yeah, that's it. Rock House. Yeah. Sonny came and stopped by and said hello. I don't know who that is. I don't know where the Rock House is. Yeah, you do. We went to a party there one time.

2:58It's right over here, like in the walkway in front of the Venetian where you can see like the bleachers where the fountains usually are. Sure. Sure. I don't know. I was just following him, man. I went to a— I went by a restaurant. I went in. They had fried chicken on the menu. Yeah, I wanted some fried chicken. And they're like, our next opening is like 9:45 PM.

3:19Oh man. Yeah. I was wearing a t-shirt and like joggers. They're like, they didn't— We don't want your kind in here. They did one of those to me. And then they're like, next available is 9:45. The people right in front of me, they offered the table at the R. And I get like, they didn't offer me a bar. And I said, okay, well, whatever.

3:40I'm not waiting till 9:45. So I walked out and there was like one other restaurant like near me because I was going to go walk somewhere to go eat. I was like, I just wanted something quick and so I could eat and go to bed. And I go, I go back around and they did the exact same thing to me. They looked me up and down.

4:01Really? Oh, my joggers and t-shirt. And they're like, you can sit at the bar. It's the same thing as the restaurant. And I'm like, all right, fine. Yeah, I don't like sitting at the bar most times. Yeah, they had like— it wasn't, uh, that the, the biggest thing for me is the chairs have to have a back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can't do it without a back.

4:23Nope, I'm doing that. Not doing that. Which these did. These were pretty comfortable, and the food came out like 3 minutes. I was in and out of there and like, yeah. That's awesome. I was telling Lucas it took me like 45 minutes just to get a coffee from Starbucks this morning. This place is jumping, man. You don't do that. One of the things I noticed this morning— would you quit kicking the camera?

4:43I'm sorry. Check it and make sure it's right. You just kicked it. Look, he's still wobbling. Good God, you and your ADHD. Maybe you need to scoot that way. It's Josh Pardell. Um, so, uh, we, uh, we went to dinner last night, had some good talks, and, uh, I guess you should introduce yourself, right? Like, my name is Cole Tanner. I'm a technician.

5:12I've been a technician for, uh, 13 years, 13 and a half years, something like that. All right, how'd you get started? Uh, I started working with my dad. He, uh, owned a Honda and Toyota specialty shop for 40 years, something like that. He had some health issues. Um, he's got a heart condition, he's got an artificial heart valve. And so I was kind of like in between, didn't know what I wanted to do with my life type thing, and knew he needed some help at the shop, so I went to work for him.

5:44Right. And so, uh, why did you— because you're not at Dad's shop anymore. Is the shop still open? Uh, it's still open. It's got a different owner. He sold it. He still owns the property. He rents the property, but, uh, yeah. Tell us a little bit about that from your perspective, him selling the shop and everything. What did that— uh, you aware of it?

6:11Yeah, sure, I was aware of it. Yeah, I mean, I wish I would have— could have stayed in the family, but there were some things that happened when I was working for him and I'd left. And so when it was time for him to sell the business, I didn't feel comfortable going in business with family again. Okay. That happens a lot. I don't think we've— almost every single situation ends up being that.

6:42Yeah, almost every single one. Yeah, I've heard that a lot listening to you guys' podcasts and other podcasts and stuff like that. I, from what I hear it, that's kind of how it goes rather than being a plus or a positive and working out. How do you feel about that now? Is there any bitterness? Is there any— No, I don't. I don't like hold any resentment or bitterness towards anybody for how things went.

7:17It's kind of water under the bridge. Yeah. Gotcha. So tell us a little bit about your past. Tell us about your history and who Cole is. Just in general, me personally, I grew up in a broken home. Dabbled in a lot of different drugs growing up. Broken home as in dad wasn't there or mom wasn't there? Well, my mom and dad split up when I was 7 or 8.

7:56And then my mom had moved. Well, I initially moved in with my mom. Excuse me. And I was, I don't know, wasn't listening to her and I was kind of beating up on my little brother and stuff. She didn't know how to handle me and so she sent me back to live with my dad and then I lived with him for— Were they close to each other?

8:20Yeah, she was living in a town at that time when I went back to live with my dad. She was living in town. We were outside of town like 15, 20 minutes. Lucas and I have been telling you about PartsTech for a while now. And how it gives you access to unlimited parts and tire vendors and direct integration with over 35 shop management systems.

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9:34Hey, one more thing. If you find out that your shop management system doesn't integrate with PartsTech, it's time to upgrade. David and I use what we believe to be the very best system on the market, Shopware. With unmatched features like Parts GP Optimizer and DVX, which is their digital vehicle experience, Shopware really is way more than just a shop management software. With it, you'll be able to create an immersive and interactive experience for your client.

9:57Setting you apart from everyone else using run-of-the-mill software. Are you ready to upgrade? Click the link in the show notes to get started. And it's outside of town. It wasn't like you're going to Florida and then, you know, that happened later. Uh, yeah, so she ended up moving to a town called Manassas. This is Virginia. This is all in Virginia. And, uh, which is like an hour from where my dad lived.

10:24And so we'd kind of like visit. I don't, I don't remember a lot of that stuff. I don't remember a lot of my childhood. But there was some visitation going on there. And then my mom decided to move to Florida. And then— So I nailed it with Florida? Yeah. Yeah. She moved to Florida. Yeah. Warm. Yeah. Yep, she moved to Florida and, uh, made it sound like a great place for me.

10:56And so I decided I wanted to move in with my mom. And so her and my dad had a nasty custody battle and my mom ended up getting custody of me and my sister. And, um, so we moved to Florida. I, I've got some friends who went through a very similar childhood, and I think it's safe to say that you and I talk a lot and, and have some in-depth conversations.

11:26And I think a lot of the things that I see you go through and the things that you deal with are things that my friends who have been in a similar situation went through. Do you think that attributes to some of, like, the challenges you had? Sure. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Uh, some of the stuff, um, I feel like I've moved past, uh, and other things maybe not.

11:54Um, I know I, I, I feel like I need to, uh, have some sort of, uh, counseling someone, because I don't have a lot of people to talk to about just different life situations, like situations that have happened, you know, more recently and stuff like that, trauma and, you know, those types of things. Dude, you're just going to get all sorts of weird noises, all sorts of weird noises.

12:29I will say that. As you're walking through these halls, every single time you've had a part fail, they're in here so you can go yell at them. Yeah, that's true. So that noise, I was worried because I was afraid it might be one of the mics is what I was— Oh. So like, is your light still on on yours? Yeah. That's good.

12:55So talking about that, right? Like recent— How old are you? I'm, uh, 37. I would have never guessed that, right? Like, first thing. Yeah, he looks like he's 28. You look young. Yeah. You, uh, do you have a family of your own? What's that? Do you have a family of your own? I have a fiancée. She has a son. Uh, so you don't have any kids of your own yet?

13:18Of my own yet, no. Yeah. So the, um, the whole like parent thing, um, I don't know, you, you tend to like, uh, you tend to just let it go. The, uh, because all of the shortcomings your parents, um, had, you just, you're just correcting it with your own kids. Sure. Yeah, no, 100%. Yeah. And you see some of the frustrations and stuff like that, and you're like, well, I kind of get why that happened.

13:56But you end up processing a lot of it yourself without the need of like, well, I got to go talk this out with someone. Because at least if you're introspective, because you can understand— I wouldn't say understand, you can see why certain things happened. And you're like, okay, well, this, this was just a matter of selfishness or immaturity, or— you see what I'm saying?

14:25And so you, because you kind of process that, you go, well, okay, well, Dad took off because, uh, you know, it was selfishness, or Dad wanted to go hook up with someone else, he didn't want to be around, uh, Mom anymore, that kind of thing, right? And I'm, I'm Not to interrupt you, but when I said I, like, I feel like maybe I need to go, you know, talk to somebody to explore some of these things, I, I, what I was more so referring to some things that have happened like within the last 5 years, you know, with your parents though.

15:01No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like that, my parents are who my parents are. They did the best they could with Yeah. With what they had, like, I don't hold any, you know, resentment. That's very forgiving. I don't say that. Me personally, I don't go, they did the best they could. No, they could have done a lot better, but they just chose not to.

15:21Right. Yes. So you go, okay, well, they were extremely flawed people and all I can do now, because you can't go back in time, obviously, right? Not that I would want to because it made me who I am today, but You just go, okay, well, they were flawed people. I'm just going to do better. That's all you can do. And the mistakes that they made, I just, I'm not going to make those same mistakes with my own kids.

15:49And that's extremely important because what typically ends up happening is the cycle starts. Yeah, I just go, you end up being your parents or, you know, you as a man, you end up being your dad and and you end up making the same mistakes he did and just starts over and over and over again. If you can at least go, well, I see what he did, I'm not going to do that, and then just shift, then you can at least break the cycle.

16:13That, that's usually the most important part, is you don't want to end up passing your own trauma down to your own kids. Yeah, I, you know, I see a lot of like where you're at right now And I hear a lot of kind of like resentment and frustration and a lot of what you say sometimes, right? Like, I'm not saying that as a bad thing, right?

16:34I don't think that is a bad thing. In regards to my family, like stuff, right? Like, I'm really— yeah, I see that kind of building up and I see that frustration there. Tell us a little bit about the past 5 years because you keep bringing up the past 5 years. Tell us a little bit about the past 5 years. I mean, I'm not, I'm not going to go in depth about it, but man, excuse me.

17:07I had a brother-in-law that I woke up and found in my kitchen overdosed. Tried to revive him. Couldn't. So that was traumatic. So how did he pass? What happened? He overdosed. Oh, okay. Um, sorry, I didn't hear that part. Yeah. Um, and then I, I needed a scenery change. And so I moved to Tennessee and moved in with a sister of mine while my fiancée and I were getting on our feet and The guy that my sister was dating shot his— blew his brains out outside my bedroom window.

17:53So holding his skull together was— Was he on anything as well? Or was— I mean, he drank and stuff like that. I don't know the toxicology report. I don't know if she ever got it back. I don't— I don't know. That's tough, man. So just trying to deal with that stuff. It affects you. Yeah, for sure. And, you know, there's— man, we shared a lot last night and there's a lot of people who are going through something very, very similar to that.

18:26Right. And so thank you for sharing. Right. Because there's other people who are going through this. And I think that, you know, like you talked about your drug use, I was a drug user. Right. But I was a drug user in a time when it was a little bit safer to be a drug user. Right? There wasn't a chance of taking something that killed you in seconds.

18:43Right? And so that didn't exist. And so I didn't ever have to worry about smoking a bowl with somebody or doing meth with somebody or something like that. And it killing me because that wasn't a thing at the time. You know what I mean? And so now, like, it's a completely different world. And I understand how devastating it was to my family and the people who cared about me.

19:06And I understand even like in the alcohol addiction days, like I understand the impact that that had on people I loved and I cared about. And to this day, that impacts me. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. But like where we're at today for these people who are still living that lifestyle, man, it's only a matter of time. You know what I'm saying?

19:28Oh yeah. Like it happens just like that. I've lost so many friends. Right? So many friends. A lot of the people I went to school with, a lot of the people that I ran around with in those circles, they're gone now. Yeah. Right? And I think what hurts me the most is I remember them the way that they were, not the way that they ended up.

19:51Does that make sense? Yeah. Because like, you see what it does to people. You see it destroy their lives. Oh, it turns you into completely different person. Yeah. You're not even close to the person that you were, right? You're not even close to that person. And, you know, I was dealing with a family situation a while back and one of the things that was said, I need to be careful about how I say this, but one of the things that was said in the conversation was, is that, well, this person might take their own life.

20:24If this comes up. And I'll never forget the law enforcement's involved in all this stuff. And one of the law enforcement officers said, that's their choice. You didn't break the law. You didn't do the thing you weren't supposed to do. And I'm not saying that that's okay or that should feel nice, but like this has to be dealt with. And so like you didn't make this situation, you didn't create this situation.

20:49So I just want you to know, no matter what happens, This isn't on you. This isn't your fault, no matter what comes out of this. And so that's been a challenge for me too. What about your automotive career? Because we had a heart-to-heart last night and you said, I'm just, I'm tired. Tell me why. Because I feel like I put in more than what I get out.

21:29You feel like that's industry-wide? Do you think that's shop-wide? Do you think that, you know, and I don't, I don't know if it's industry-wide. I mean, I know there are, there are technicians that, that put in a lot of their own time., into bettering themselves. But I don't, I don't think it's the majority. And part of me feels like they shouldn't have to, but at the same time, our industry is, you know, constantly evolving and changing.

22:03And to keep up with that, I mean, it's like almost a full-time job in and of itself. Trying to just keep up with the new technologies and, and, you know, new, new fluids that are coming out. And Azure, you know, just, yeah, I mean, that's a full-time job in and of itself. So, right. Well, so I mean, like, some of the things we've been talking about, we've been talking about like compensation and stuff, right?

22:29And like, that's a, that's a bit of a sore subject for you. Not, not, and, and we should preface that it's not necessarily just the shop where you're at issue, right? Like, it's It's your frustrations with the industry as a whole, I feel like, and that the industry is not where it should be. It's not like we're compensating people fairly. And one of the talks we had is like, I've been on to Jeff recently saying, hey, you need to be careful what you say about compensation because like where we're at is very different than being in a metro like Las Vegas or being in a metro.

23:03We're finally getting into a good roll and here comes Lucas interrupting the episode. Folks, now you know exactly why I hire Shop Marketing Pros to do my shop marketing. It's that I am spastic and all over the place and I lack consistency. But here's the thing, that doesn't work in marketing. You see, marketing takes 30, 60, sometimes 90 days to be effective, and I was all over the place with my marketing.

23:30There was no consistency at all. Caused these waves in my business because I was so inconsistent. And that's why I am so happy to refer Shop Marketing Pros They bring consistency. They are true professionals. I'm going to encourage you, go down to the link below and get your free digital marketing inspection. Just like we do digital vehicle evaluations for automobiles, they're doing the same thing about your marketing and they will help you get your business turned around.

24:03Like Charlotte or even Knoxville, right? It's a very different world. And so you were saying like, hey, I've got guys telling me that they're earning six figures and I'm not earning six figures. And I feel like I put all this work in and it, at least from my perspective of what you were saying, it didn't feel like you were saying to me, I deserve more.

24:22I want more. I've done this. I've done that. It's like, bro, I'm putting all this work in and I don't see a return. I'm putting all this in and I don't, I don't feel like I'm getting anything for it. I feel like I'm spinning my wheels. Is that a fair assessment? Sure, 100%. Yeah, I'm not, I'm not saying like, oh, I should earn this money because, just because, like, I mean, I'm, I'm putting in the work, you know, I'm, I'm watching, you know, Scanner Danner and South Main Auto and Keith Perkins and, you know, Check Engine Chuck and Ryan Mullen and, you know, like, that's what I do with my off time.

24:57Like, I'm not watching Family Guy, you know, at night. Uh, like, diagnostics is like, I love it. It's, it's who I am, but I love problem solving, you know, but I feel like I'm not getting back what I should be. Right. And, and I've talked to you about this too. Like, it's not, everything's not about money. I'm not trying to say that, like, there's more to life than money, but, you know, I'm where I am in life, uh, and, and what I want out of life requires, you know, a level of compensation.

25:40I, I agree with you, but I also think that, that in some ways, I believe you measure yourself based on the compensation, right? Not necessarily just you, but I mean, I think that's kind of like the measure of success. Sure. Well, I mean, I mean, a lot of people do. I mean, that's— I don't know. It's not— it's not all of it, you know.

26:11I have healthy relationships. Yeah. You know, so that's a success to me. Right. Well, now, yesterday morning you sent me a video and it's funny because I don't think I watched that video until this morning. Right. And it kind of went in line with what we were talking about last night. So he sent me this video and it's Simon Sinek talking about how, like, the consistent performer is this gradual line going up to the goal, but then the erratic performers over here going up and down and they're hitting it sometimes, not hitting it others.

26:44And they're way down here part of the time, they're way up here the other part of the time. Yet they're the one getting rewarded consistently. But the guy who's bringing the consistency and they're not like, they're not causing the up and down and the drama is the one who ends up getting punished because they didn't hit the goal and the goal keeps moving further and further away from them.

27:04Right. Does that make sense? It was about momentum, you know, like, yeah, I mean, uh, judging things not necessarily off of hitting the goal, but the momentum that the company, the business has rather than a certain dollar amount or whatever. Like in his scenario, you know, that steady pace instead of the drastic up and downs, the steady pace was going to get to the goal.

27:39It just might have took it, taken a couple extra months. Yeah. But the guys that are, you know, constantly swinging up and down, they're, they're going to hit their goal on time and they're going to get the bonus check and whatever. But the guy that, you know, is steady, consistent averaging. Yeah. Right. Doesn't, you know, the problem though, like, I don't know how to fix a disconnect like this.

28:05The issue is that at the end of the day, the only thing that pays the bill is the fixed car. Like, that's it. So like, how much knowledge you bring to the table, how much time you put into learning diagnostics, if that doesn't translate into fixed car, like, it doesn't matter. None of it matters. And it's not just fixed car. It's like, I need the car done by Tuesday.

28:39It's like, okay, well, the car didn't get done on Tuesday. It got pushed off to Wednesday because of XYZ reason. It doesn't matter. But the car didn't get fixed on Tuesday. Okay, the car needed to be fixed on Tuesday. And it's not that, oh, we need to meet customer expectation. That's part of it. But it's also like we need to maintain consistent revenue, right?

29:00Well, for that to happen, I've got to get this car done Tuesday and then we need to start the cars that come in on Wednesday, get them done and so on and so forth. See what I'm saying? Yeah. And the, the disconnect ends up happening for whatever reason. I'm just seeing it, at least in my own shop. I see this when technicians are talking about it and just in general.

29:23They don't quite connect that if that car doesn't get done, it's not that we just didn't deliver to the customer the car that they needed. That's $3,500 that needs to come in today for me to pay the bills. And it's like, yeah, but we didn't take into account this, or the part was late, or it's like, okay, great. The car still needed to get done.

29:49Done. You see what I'm saying? Oh yeah, yeah. And like, if, if whatever you're doing on a daily basis doesn't end up contributing to the car being done on time, on budget, then it's all for naught. Is— you see what I'm saying? Yes sir, 100%. I don't, I don't know that, that every technician sees it that way. I, I know for sure, like, I've got technicians in my own shop that like in their minds things need to go a certain way and, and it doesn't match reality.

30:22Like I had a technician work for me one time and he's like, can we just do all the inspections on Mondays and Tuesdays, like schedule them all in so we don't need to do inspections on Wednesdays, Thursdays, and Fridays? Yeah, you can focus on repairs, right? Yep. Yeah. And I looked at them and I'm like So you're going to inspect the car on Monday morning and you may not start on it till Wednesday.

30:48And then it takes 2 days to fix. So the car will get done on Friday. So the car is going to stay here for a week. Or we inspect it. That's what my manager tried to do. Or we inspect it, get the approval, start the car on Tuesday. Maybe the car's out by Wednesday. Like, how do you bring money in like that?

31:05Like, you need to bring money in It's not just, hey, zero, zero on Monday, zero on Tuesday, zero on Wednesday, $5,000 on Thursday, $15,000 on Friday. Like, that doesn't work at all. Yeah, it's got to be $5,000, $5,000, $5,000. That's the only way we can maintain some consistency in revenue, and I can, on, as the bills come in, to get they get paid because no, nobody's gonna wait.

31:37Like, they just start tacking on late fees or they cut you off and cut off your credit or whatever. Like, there's problems when you don't bring in consistent revenue. And these tech— I'm just telling you, like, I see way too many technicians just like have a complete and total disconnect between the car coming in and what they do and revenue. Like they don't, it's together.

32:03Right. And wanting unrealistic things. Or who was it? Was it, who was it that we were talking to? They're like, oh, was that the Institute thing? Like the technicians were complaining. This is from a DVI company. The technicians were complaining about having to do inspections. And they didn't understand why they were having to inspect 100% of the car and report 100% of the findings.

32:34And then they were like, well, if it's not going to get sold, why even inspect it? Or why even bother doing the inspection if it's not going to get sold? And it's like, I don't think you understand. The inspection doesn't get done, no more gets sold. Now what? I mean, I can, I can see it in a, as a, excuse me, in a technician's perspective.

32:57I mean, if they're constantly doing all these inspections, all these inspections and nothing's getting sold, I mean, it's kind of like, okay, well, why, why am I doing this? Like, I mean, you could look at it as, well, it's a CYA type thing, but at the end of the day, especially if you're flat rate, like you got to turn hours. You can't do that just doing inspections all day.

33:21You got to be doing repairs and maintenance and even diag. I mean, you can make money on diag if, if, if we're charging appropriately. Right. You shared that in your shop. You definitely feel like there's a frustration, like you're kicking your butt doing everything you can to get these inspections. You're getting the inspections timely., but then it doesn't end up getting sold.

33:46Sometimes it's some back and forth, right? And so like I can see how that's frustrating because like you're telling me, hey, I'm going home at 2 PM because I don't have any work to do, right? Like that's like, and I'm sitting here telling him like, hey, that never happens in my shop. We're super inefficient. Like you can forget it, right? Like it ain't happening.

34:04But like it's something to think about is, is how do we navigate that in such a way that rewards the technician Right. And so they still see the value in doing that. Now, are you paid for your inspections? Yeah, we get a 0.5 for our inspections. Yeah. Right. And that's what I do. Like, your guys are hourly, so it doesn't matter to them for salary.

34:25Yeah. Hourly or set hours. But see, that still doesn't work. I mean, it still doesn't work. If we don't sell the work, they complain. It's like, but I'm paying you for the time here. Like, what does it make a difference whether we sell? And that's on us. Like, I've got to sell the work because otherwise I can't pay the bills, right? Yeah, but like, if the job is just the do the inspect, just do the fucking inspection.

34:52Just do the inspection. If that's all you do all day long and I'm paying you to do that, then just do the inspection. What difference does it make whether we sell something or not? Do the inspection to the best of your ability. That's it. Now we sell something, great. I know I have to sell something because otherwise I cannot pay the bills.

35:09We cannot, like, we don't charge for our inspections. So that's untenable entirely, right? I can't do 100 inspections by the end of the week and pay the bills. That's not going to happen. So obviously we need to sell some work. But if it was just, hey, we're going to do 100 inspections this week and nothing gets sold, what difference does it make if you're getting paid for it?

35:30Well, yeah, to the technician if he's paid hourly. Um, yeah, that makes sense. But they still complain. That's my point. They're getting paid hourly. Well, I mean, they're still complaining. They're like, oh, what are we doing this inspection? You go to work and like, it, it's just like, for instance, in the family business, if it's slow, dude, the employees are miserable because it's like it takes forever for the day to pass.

35:54It's just, it's like, and so he's sitting here saying like, dude, I don't have anything to do. I'm irritated. I'm frustrated because I don't have anything to do. Yeah, like I was telling Lucas, like I've been hourly before too. And it didn't, things didn't. I'm just the type of person I want to be busy. That's just who I am. And I want to be efficient.

36:19I want to maximize my efficiency. I don't want to waste time. I don't, you You know what I mean? And so even when I was hourly, I still, you know, I still felt like that way to an extent, you know, you know, at times, you know, the boss wanted me to do something. It's like, well, you know, there's a better way to do this or hey, this isn't going to fix the car.

36:41And it bothered me, but it didn't bother me because like, oh well, I'm still getting paid to do it. You know, that's a really good point because a lot of the things that we've been over here is something that I hear from a lot of technicians. And there's a lot of different areas of frustration, but some of those areas of frustration are, a great example, hey, they sold a brake job and they also sold a tire rotation.

37:05I don't feel like that's right. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like, hey, this isn't cool. Yep. Go take that back off the ticket. And usually that's just a mistake, but there's shops who are still charging for that, still saying, hey, go ahead and run it. Right. The one that we talked about last night that I think's a big frustration for a lot of techs is, hey, uh, it's the last 2 weeks of the month, we got to hit our numbers, while there was no push from the front counter leading up to that.

37:28And it's like, hey, we're going to smooth sail. Oh God, we're not going to hit our numbers, we're going to be in trouble. This is going to be a thing. So now it's all this pressure at the end of the month, no pressure at the beginning of the month, no consistency. And so I think it's things like that that are frustrating technicians, is that a fair— yeah, I'd agree with that.

37:43Yeah, we're putting all the— yeah, I would agree with that. Well, but I mean, like, what were you gonna say though? No, I don't want— I don't want to, uh, I don't want to, um, talk bad about anybody or, or, you know, my shop or that I'm working at. I don't think that would ever be perceived as, as like you saying something bad, right?

38:09Like, I, I know your shop owner really well. And I believe that they are honest and I believe they're trying to do their very best. I think they are good people. I believe that too. Yeah, I mean, I do think that they, like anything you say, that, that's what's cool about shop owners in these circles is like, I believe they genuinely want to improve.

38:27And so there's this like broken feedback loop because all these technicians feel like, hey, I can't go talk to the shop owner because I might get fired. Hey, I might like, I might overstep my bounds. And that's something you said last night, dude, it It broke my heart, right? Because I was sitting there thinking about something that you said and like, fuck, man, I've done that before.

38:44Like, I've made that mistake. And if you notice, like, you know how, like, I'm super jokey and everything in my shop and I'm always laughing and cutting up and I just say whatever I feel like saying whenever I feel like saying it. Well, the reason that I'm like that is because I have caught myself on multiple occasions saying and doing things that were— that could be perceived as I was saying something bad about somebody else.

39:07Now, it never in a million years crossed my mind or my heart in a negative light, right? I didn't think it was negative. I didn't mean it in a bad way. And so I'm just going to put it out there, right? Like, sorry, I'm not trying to spill our private conversation. No, you're good. You're fine. You know, one of the things he talked about is he said, hey, there was an issue in the shop.

39:28And so I went to the manager and I said to the manager, hey, bud, or maybe it wasn't the manager, maybe it was an advisor. Hey bud, I'm concerned about this. And so then walking outside, smoking a cigarette, overhear that person on the phone with somebody else. And it feels like they're talking about me. Feels like they're saying I'm the problem in this situation when I was just trying to help and I was just trying to uplift.

39:50And so from my perspective, I'm sitting here saying, fuck dude, I've done that. Like I didn't mean to. I didn't mean it in a negative light. And like as human beings, we're going around, like you think of the number of conversations that are happening right now in this building. Right? Probably 50,000 conversations at the exact same time. Yeah. Right? And so if you think about the number of times that you could walk past somebody, misunderstand or misinterpret what it was that they were saying.

40:14But as business owners, we have a responsibility to be solid on that measure. As managers, we have a responsibility to be solid. If we're going to say something, we should say it to everybody. Now there's times where I have to have conversations that are like, dude, hey, this guy's missing the mark. Right? Yeah. But I think that we should be open and communicate well enough that I could come to you and say, hey, I think you're missing the mark on this.

40:37Right? Instead of taking your feedback and saying, hey, yeah, I really appreciate you letting me know. And then pick up the phone and say something negative behind your back. I should be able to say, dude, Cole, like, hey man, you've been saying this about this person and this is what keeps coming up, but I'm not seeing that. Can you give me some insight?

40:53So I'm getting a lot better at doing that, but that was a wake-up call for me because I'm guilty of doing that, right? And like, you see that. I think we all are. Yeah, for sure. We don't mean it. I mean, how many times have you been in the doghouse with your wife because you said something that was, you know, perceived in the wrong light?

41:09Yeah, all subject. I don't say anything wrong. I don't know what you're talking about. You're only right. Maybe that's the whole reason. That's the problem. I'm always right. Whatever you do in your marriage, never do that. Yeah, that doesn't work. If you acknowledge I'm always wrong, you're in good shape, you know? It'll be fine. My fiancée, she has actually told me, like, you know, you're right, like, all the time.

41:41There you go. That'll change when you get married, I promise. Yeah, that'll stop. She's just saying that now because you're not married yet. Yeah, I don't know. We've been together off and on for, uh, 10 years, so— wow. Uh, we've been through a lot. Yeah, long distance and everything. So, so what does the future look like for you? Like, we've had some hard talks, and, and you've said— you told me what you've told your boss and, and some of the stuff you've shared with them.

42:12Um, I shared that my fear was that if you could not— and, and I don't want to say that it got heated last night, but I could tell it frustrated you, right? Like, because you felt like I was saying that I thought you switched shops a lot, and that, like, I want you to know that that was not my intent. That wasn't what I was trying to say, but that, like, until you fix some of these issues and gain a perspective where you can be okay with things it can become a pattern, right?

42:43Because we see so many techs that bounce shop to shop and shop to shop. And it's like, this is wrong and this is wrong and this is wrong and this is wrong and this is wrong. Okay, I'm going to move. Now this is wrong and this is wrong and this is wrong. Right? I know you're not that. And so I felt like you were putting that on me.

43:02And yeah, I mean, I'm an open book, man. I was a little frustrated with that, sure. Yeah, but that doesn't mean I'm like unwilling to have those conversations or, or unwilling to look at that in myself. Yeah, but I mean, every shop I've left has been for, for personal reasons because, because of me, because I was the problem. Sure. Tell us a little bit about that.

43:32Just substance abuse off and on. So I needed, I need, I need to change, you know, people, places, and things, you know, so I would— Is that alcohol? Is it opiates? Opiates? Yeah. Yeah, that can be dangerous. That's a tough one. And they, they are the hardest wolves. Right? Like, they are hard. And— Okay, good. Definitely a difficult road. It's not easy.

44:08Well, and the loop that I got stuck in was like coming down made me ill and grouchy and like I felt like I could not tolerate the world. Like I felt so uncomfortable in the world and I felt so— and so it was so easy to go back. It was so easy to go back to what I was doing. Yeah, um, the ones that really— there was one that, that bothered me so bad, right?

44:34Like, I'd taken oxys and stuff like that, and it didn't bother me. The one that really bothered me was Xanax, right? Because like, I felt like I had to have more. Like, I felt like I could not live my life without more. I saw a lot of people who went down that road. And, and you want to talk about being a piece of shit parent?

44:51You want to talk about being— and, and this was all way before I I'm in my relationship, my marriage, way before my kids, right? Thankfully, I figured out like some pathways to get through this stuff. But like, man, those, those in particular, when you come off of them, you are a miserable motherfucker. You can die from, from withdrawals from Xanax. And so like, it's difficult to like find that balance.

45:19And one of the things that's difficult about somebody in your position for sure, right? Like I'm I'm a long way out, right? I'm '21, '22, somewhere in there is where I kind of quit doing all those things. So, you know, I'm a number of years past that. But one of the interesting things about it is it's just like there's a guy who was coming in the shop for a while.

45:40He brought one of the lighter vehicles back and it was trashed. What the fuck, dude? Like really nasty and like damaged interior components and had ran it off the road and all this stuff. So I was asking him like, hey man, what's up? And he's like, I am not afraid to tell I'm an addict. I'm like, all right, well, like, man, I think we've all been an addict, but that doesn't excuse what happened.

46:01And so we got into this like really heartfelt conversation. He said, man, he said, I was over this. He said, I had fixed my life. And he said, so I was a heroin user. And he said, I was working on the back of a house. He said, I had a ladder set up. He said, I've been completely clean and sober for over 7 years.

46:20He said, I was on that ladder. He said, the homeowner comes around the back of the house and hits the bottom of the ladder with the lawnmower. It knocks the ladder out and I fall 40 feet and hit the ground. And he said, when I woke up, he said, I was in the back of an ambulance. And he said, I told them over and over again, do not give me painkillers.

46:36Do not give me painkillers. Please do not. I'm an addict. Please do not give me painkillers. He said, I'd worked for over 10 years to resolve my addiction. And he said, they gave me painkillers anyway. And he said, I've had the hardest time. He's like, I want to quit. I want to change. I want to be different. I don't want to be the person that I am.

46:55But every single morning I fight a demon inside me that I can't kill. And it's right back to what it was. And he's like, so there's times in my life when I don't want to live like this, but the one time that I do want to live like this breaks it all and I can't get— it can. It can for sure. And then a similar situation happened to me.

47:15I had about 10 years. Yeah. Hurt my back picking up an F-350 transfer case or something. You know, being stupid. Doing it by myself and I felt something pop in my back and that was it. And I tried, I mean, I tried physical therapy. I tried, you know, muscle relaxers and all kinds of stuff and nothing, nothing helped. And, you know, I had 10 years, so I figured I'm, I'm all right as long as I don't, you know, don't abuse it, you know?

47:52And I, and I did fine. I did fine for months. And then just one day I was like, I don't remember something, something happened. I'm like, yeah, eff it, you know? And then it was just downhill. Sure. And, you know, it wasn't that I wanted to be on that stuff. Like, I didn't— I didn't— I didn't go back to, like, who I was in my, like, teens and, you know, early 20s.

48:23Like, I wasn't robbing people and, you know, stealing from my family and lying and manipulating. Like, I wasn't that guy. But, you know, I spent all my money on the stuff. I ended up selling stuff to afford my habit, you know, because I was physically— it was more so a physical dependency, and I didn't have the resources or time to go through that sickness that you have getting off of it.

48:57I mean, you know, it's like the flu times 100 with restless legs and vomiting and, you know, diarrhea and, you know, the list goes on. It's nasty substances, you know, just pills, OxyContin, oxycodone, whatever you want to call it. Yep. Back before those, they were real, you know. Yeah, absolutely. So like moving forward, what does life look like for you as a tech?

49:28Hold on, I got a question. Is that what keeps you on it? What's that? Just trying to, yeah, avoiding the withdrawals? Withdrawals? Some people, yeah. I mean, other people, they don't want to change and they don't care. And you know what? Yeah, they want that feeling, right? They want to be high. They— It erases, I think from my perspective, Like there's days I wake up and life's really hard and I do not feel like lifing and it erases some of that, right?

49:58It, it, it mutes that. And so like those really bad— Always just, they're still there. Well, of course they are. But I can, I just, I can never get into any of it. Like it's like, yeah, you feel good. Like drinking. You're like, yeah, you get a buzz and you're like, oh, this is great. The next morning you feel like shit. It's like, oh, okay.

50:16All the problems. And It doesn't matter. Well, that's what I'm saying. Like, you're just kicking the can down the road. Eventually you're like, I'm going to have to face the pipe, the piper here eventually. Well, I mean, and that's why so many people don't stop is because facing that is hard, right? Like, I remember, I think one of the bigger challenges for me is right there towards the end of my addiction thing.

50:40Lots of things had happened, right? I was running around with Cooks. And so when you're running around with the Cooks, you know, like you have endless supply, whatever you want, as much of it as you want, right? It's not a big deal. And then I started— I remember in particular there were two scenarios where of age, but young girls were around people that I knew.

51:05And I believe that meth has an impact on young girls. That they do not recover from forever, right? I know some people do, but I believe it impacts their brain in a way. I believe it adjusts brain chemistry. You know, I told you about my anxiety stuff when I went to the anxiety clinic, and she was like, it'll be 10 to 15 years before your brain chemistry resets.

51:26She's like, that's why we don't prescribe Xanax. And she's like, so meth, anything like that changes your brain chemistry. And so it takes a lot of work to get back from that. And I don't want to give you something that you have to work back to. Like, I understand if it was an emergency situation and just to get you to live, this is what we had to do.

51:43I could see that. But like, it doesn't fix anything. It doesn't do anything, right? And so I watch these young girls be exposed to something. I watched a guy hold a girl down one time and put something in her arm. And I was like, I am not okay with this. This is fucking wrong. And I've told this dude, I was like, dude, if I'd have had a pistol, you'd have been dead, right?

51:59Like, I wouldn't have. That was wrong, right? What you did, I mean, that's sending you straight to hell, buddy. Because I like that person now is not the same human being they were, right? And I started seeing people be impacted in a way that, and like you begin to back up and you realize what impact it's having on the people around you and you see what's happening to them and they're dying and they're falling apart and they're looking terrible.

52:22And I'll never forget, I ate like 4 ladder bars one night. And drank a bunch of whiskey and I lost 3 weeks. I don't know where it went. I don't know what happened. That was a ladder bar. A ladder bar Xanax. And so they have the very first ones, like what they call a peach. It's like a 5mg or 0.5mg or something.

52:41And then they had a football that was blue and then they had another one. But there were— they had a ladder bar that was 4 of them. Yeah, they had white, yellows or greens. Yeah, the greens were split up into 3 sections. The yellows and whites were 2. Yeah, I'm sorry, 4 sections. And they were like, these like randos cooking this stuff.

53:01No, no, they're, they're— sorry. Yeah, they were. It was— it's a half a milligram each square, right? Each, each section. These are prescription drugs. Somebody's just getting jacked. Yeah. And so like what, what happened to me was I was dating a girl who her cousin worked for a doctor's office and that doctor was letting her take the strip pad and write whatever they wanted.

53:23And that was before it was a big thing. Now she's dead, right? She's dead. Holy shit. You know what I mean? Like, and a lot of people that I knew ended up there. And so like, I started seeing that and I'm like, holy crap, I lost 3 weeks. It was a terrible story. It's so embarrassing. Long story short, a picture got taken with a girl on top of me.

53:46Now I'm clearly out of it. Like, I'm not even there. But this girl and like, I'm clothed, it's not anything, but I don't. Yeah. Oh yeah. And it's like, I don't like this. This isn't who I want to be. I'm not okay with this. Yeah. And so it was enough. It scared me enough that I was like, ah, nah, man, I don't want this for myself anymore.

54:09There are days, though, that it gets really hard to life And like, life gets frustrating, life gets aggravating. And I think that's why it's so important to have support structures that back you up and say like, nah, man, you're gonna be all right. I get so aggravated with my wife because she is like very, very aggressively firm with, no, you're fine. You're okay.

54:33Like, I'm not even buying your bullshit. You're fine. Right? But that's what I need. I need somebody in my life to tell me, shut the fuck up. You'll be all right. You got this. Come on. I need that sometimes. Sure. Yeah, for sure. And like, I think that, I think that if we fall victim to that addiction and we let that addiction drive us and we let that addiction become who we are, then we can't hear what anybody else has to say.

54:55We're not willing to look at ourselves and say, are they right? Because it's driving. And I think that's the scariest thing for me is because it is driving, right? You're not driving anymore. You're not in control anymore. And it's taking you where you're going. Everything you do is about that now, right? Yeah. When you're in it, that's— yeah, when you're in it.

55:17Yeah. And so breaking out of that and getting to a different place is not a— not an easy thing. No, for sure. No, for sure. So where do you go from here, right? There's, there's some shop frustrations. You've talked to the shop owner and said, hey, I think I'm going to be looking. I'm going to do something different here. But what— where do you go from here?

55:36What does happiness look like for you moving forward? Happiness? I don't really look for, like, happiness. I feel like happiness is just— it's fleeting. Doesn't last, uh, but that's another subject. Um, just, I don't know. Um, I'm gonna see, I'm just gonna plan on seeing where things go. You know, we did leadership intensive not too long ago at your shop, uh, and, uh, That seemed to be pretty impactful.

56:34Did it make an impact on you? Because you had mentioned like, hey, I've been through rehab. So a lot of these things I've learned on my own. Yeah, sure. Right. Was it reinforcing to that? Was it— I didn't learn them on my own, but I learned them, you know, through that, through programs that I've been a part of and went through and you know, there are things that like you might not think about all the time that aren't at the forefront of your mind.

57:01And so, you know, hearing that, going through it again and seeing those things, yeah, it's brought that back to the surface and, you know, shown me, you know, I have areas to work on. And maybe a different perspective. Do you think it changed the shop at all? Do you think it impacted the shop? Well, that's— I think it impacted— I think it impacted the manager and the owner, and it seems like some things might be in the works.

57:43And so I plan on seeing where it goes for a little bit. Do you think that that need for constant improvement or that need for like, was one of the things you expressed is like, hey, we keep talking about this, but we're not doing anything. I know for me, and this might sound a little crazy, but I think for me, there's some, some of the addiction stuff kind of pours back in and it's like, hey, I need to keep moving.

58:10I need to keep, like, I'm afraid to slow down, right? And I've talked a lot about my anxiety. Like, I don't want to stop because my anxiety boils over when I stop. And so I have to keep going and I never deal with the root of how I feel. And so that push, I've got to keep going. I have to keep driving harder.

58:28I'm trying to like keep things moving in a positive direction. Do you think that addiction and some of like where you've been, plays into that need for the shop to continue to like hit these new goals, hit these new things, take another step, go further? Yeah, probably. Yeah, I would say having gone through that, that type of stuff, it knowing, you knowing where I've been, uh, made me realize— and like overcoming and, and bettering myself, like, made me realize I can do so much better.

59:14I can do so much more. And, and I want— yeah, and I want that for everybody around me. And so, uh, and so I get, I get frustrated when I don't see the progress in the time frame that I feel it should be in, and whatever the case may be, you know, that for sure. Have you— it does. Have you shared, um, have you shared some of this with your employer?

59:42Have you shared your addiction stories? Not that, not that in particular. I mean, I've, I've, I've shared a little bit, uh, I've not went into great detail or anything like that, um, You know, but my manager, well, pretty much I think everybody I work with knows I'm not, you know, I don't like, I don't hide from it. You know, I'm not ashamed of it.

1:00:08No, no. It's made me who I am today. For everybody is we stop being ashamed of it and we talk about it. Yeah. Because for a long time it was a shameful thing. It was an embarrassing thing. It was hard to talk about. You know, George that works for me, you know, Big George. Big George. Yeah. Yeah. So George, George came to me one time with tears in his eyes.

1:00:30He had done 4 years, right? And was right slap in the middle of all of it. Right. And George, it's tough because George found out that the person that he loved with all of his heart, had children with, had been betraying him all along. And had been leading him in a path where they continued to go towards addiction and continued to go to a path of poverty.

1:00:55And, and right, and so like he comes out of prison and he, he's trying to fix things, he's trying to make things right. And he said, you know, I recognize now that I'm a felon and I've spent so many years upset because I didn't have the same opportunities of other people because I was a felon. But he said, now I recognize I have to own that.

1:01:17That was a decision I made, and I made decisions that led me to where I ended up, and nobody can control that. That is— I'm going to pay for the consequences of my actions no matter what. And I'm— and, you know, I think we get caught up in trying to overcome the consequences. And he was like, I am— I am submitting to this now.

1:01:37I'm deciding I'm going to submit to this. Because I can't run from the consequences anymore. I can't be angry about the consequences. I can't try to hide the consequences. I have to accept the consequences, right? And so I think when we start having those honest and real conversations about that and being okay with this is where we're at and it's okay to be embarrassed by this, it's okay to not be perfect, I think that we will start making things better because there's a lot of addiction, a lot of substance abuse, a lot of abusive and mental health issues in this industry.

1:02:11And so until we start talking about it, we're not going to make those things better. Right? This is a hard job. Lots of guys get hurt, get hurt doing this job. And because they get hurt doing this job, they end up on opiates. Right? And it's a downhill slide from there. And so they just need to know they can go ask for help.

1:02:31Yeah. There's people they can talk to. They can message us, they can message you, they can message somebody. But don't like think you're going through this alone, you know? Yeah. So thank you for being here. My next class is Things We Don't Talk About. Margaret Blythe? Yes. Yep. Margaret Blythe. Yep. That's my next class. I pushed so hard for her to get classes and for her to be able to go around the country and talk.

1:02:56And I tell every single show that we go to and everybody I talk to, you need to have her there. And they're like, how many people are going to show up for a mental health class? How many people are going to show up for an addiction class? Like, look, dude, if one person shows up out of these 50-some thousand people that are APAC— Thank you for listening to the Changing the Industry podcast.

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