Now playing — Repair Shop Reckoning
Summary
In this episode of Repair Shop Reckoning, Kevin breaks down one of the biggest problems killing repair shops right now: Owners are doing the work… but they are not controlling the money. What starts as a conversation about cash basis vs accrual...
About this episode
In this episode of Repair Shop Reckoning, Kevin breaks down one of the biggest problems killing repair shops right now:Owners are doing the work… but…
Key takeaways
- —Understanding cash basis vs. accrual accounting is crucial for accurate financial tracking.
- —Shop owners must prioritize invoicing to ensure they collect payments promptly.
- —High overhead can erode profits, making it essential to monitor expenses closely.
- —Building a savings cushion can help businesses weather slow periods without resorting to loans.
- —Consulting with a competent CPA can provide valuable insights into financial health and business strategy.
Frequently asked
- What is the difference between cash basis and accrual accounting?
- Cash basis accounting records transactions when cash is exchanged, while accrual accounting records them when they occur, providing a clearer picture of business performance.
- Why is invoicing important for shop owners?
- Invoicing is crucial because it ensures that shop owners collect payments for their services, preventing cash flow issues and financial instability.
- How can I prepare my shop for slow periods?
- Building a savings account by setting aside a percentage of weekly gross income can help you manage expenses during slow times without relying on loans.
▸Full transcript
Grainger knows when you're a procurement manager for an office park, you're not managing one building, you're managing all of them. And to stay ahead, you need to see through walls and around corners. Lights about to fail, filters ready to clog, HVAC on its last leg. If you wait until something breaks, you're already behind. Count on Grainger for quality products, easy reordering, and 24/7 support.
Call 1-800-GRANGER, click grainger.com, or just stop by. Grainger. For the ones who get it done. This is the story of the one. The one who keeps multiple buildings running smoothly day after day. Plumbing that flows, HVAC that hums, cleaning supplies that keep surfaces sparkling. That's why she counts on Grainger. With easy reordering online and 24/7 support, Grainger helps her keep the products she needs on hand.
So shelves stay stocked and buildings stay ready. Call 1-800-GRANGER, click grainger.com, or just stop by. Granger, for the ones who get it done. Welcome back, everybody. Uh, hopefully everybody had a good Memorial Day weekend. I did. I had people over the house, and on Sunday, and it rained all fucking day. People party started at 2, and at 2:01 it started raining, and about 3 o'clock it was cats and fucking dogs.
It was okay, it was still about 70 degrees out. And probably about 5 o'clock, all the little kids were like, will you take the COVID off the pool? So I had to pump— I got an automatic cover, so I had to pump all the water off. There's quite a bit of water on there. Then little guys went in there and swam with blue lips.
I mean, it's heated. Kids are crazy. There's no way as an adult you'd be getting in the pool like that, but kids are like, let's swim in that all day. 82 degrees the pool was, and it was steaming, and the little kids are like getting out and shivering. I'm like, yeah, these guys got guts. There's no way I'd do it. Lincoln got in, and Mia and everybody, I think.
Yeah, Lincoln dove in and had Elias in there and stuff, and it was like, wow, all the other little kids were on the steps, you know. It's kind of cool. I mean, it was so cold outside, the air of the wind. Yeah, we had the fireplace going out there for people. It's like, well, but everybody seemed to have a good time. There's no food left, so I think there's like 80-some Sloppy Joes eaten.
Holy shit. Yeah, there's a lot of people, a lot of food. Wow. Yeah, everybody brings something, you know how that goes. Yeah, everybody just ate, so it was a good time. And, uh, kind of started back to work and then we're like, oh shit, we haven't done an episode. So something I came up with this week, this is for Isaac, one of my clients.
We had a conversation with his accountant. He's on a cash basis for his accounting. There's a thing called cash basis or accrual basis accounting. I want to kind of go just touch on that today and I want to talk about why People just don't get how important the numbers are. I mean, I preach this from episode, what, 5 on. Somehow or another, I talk about you have to know your numbers.
Okay. Having your shop management program on the front end, pricing stuff the right way is only part of it. People just don't seem to get it. You could be doing great on the front end, but your overhead and everything is too high on the back end. It eats all that profit up like we talked about in the P&L and you're doing, you're working your butt off every day, but you're losing money because you don't know what your net is.
Well, the net is, is what we get to keep after everything's paid. And then they talk about this, you know, well, I have no money. Yeah, that's because everybody— it shows what you made, but you didn't collect your money. I got some clients that, you know, they're just— they're not really good at collecting their money. Well, you got to be really good at collecting your money.
Now, from what I understand, another one of my clients was telling me that, you know, after 60 days, like, some of these companies, bigger companies, they're like, we're not paying you, you should have freaking billed us. And I say to these guys, like, what the fuck are you doing? You're doing all the work, you're buying the parts, and you don't have time to write a fucking bill?
There's Several of my clients are like, tell me you have to write your fucking bills. I can't say fucking enough. Like last week's episode, I listened to it. That was pretty passionate. And I was like, huh, pretty amazing that I say fuck so much. But apparently I'm a passionate guy. So we're going to try to clean it up today. Dude, I love the passionate conversations.
I think some of these have been the best episodes. Yeah. And that's just me. They say highly intelligent people swear a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if I'm highly intelligent, but I swear a lot. So today we're just going to simplify it. We're just going to go through just a really quick— I got like 4 pages of explaining that. And then I want to kind of get into why it's important with metrics, know what's going on in your business, how we need to plan for the future, plan for slow times.
You know, I've been seeing guys on TikTok, you know, hey, I'm really slow all of a sudden. You know, the oil prices and the diesel fuel prices are really affecting my business. People aren't, you know, moving, they're not driving. So therefore they're not fixing their vehicles. You know, it's like an unexpected expense. Increase on a lot of these families. So now guess what?
You know, the car oil change or whatever might have to wait. So all the shops are slowing down. What happens when the shops slow down? The money's not coming in and you weren't making any money in the first place because you didn't know your numbers. Then you have nothing in your savings account. Like I've talked about, take 10% of your weekly gross and pop into your savings account.
If you absolutely have to have it back to pay some bills, take it back, but try to act like it's not there and it'll build up. So when a rainy day comes, what if you have money in the savings account, you get a little bit slow, You can kind of feed some of it into your company without having to borrow money. But a lot of these guys don't do it.
Their ideas are like, well, I'll just go get a loan from the bank or I'll go get a high-interest loan or I'll start putting everything on my credit cards. That's not the answer, guys. You know, if you have to, obviously do it, but you should probably start planning for this stuff like I'm saying. That way, when you hit the slow times, you have money in your savings account and you're self-sustaining.
Well, because you can talk about the gas prices, but it could be anything. It could be COVID, it could be, you know, whatever fluctuation. You can't control the slow times. In a lot of cases. Right. And one of my things I've done over the years as I became more and more successful in our business, I've gotten to the point now personally where I am the lines of credit if we ever need it for the companies.
I have savings account, but if we go through the savings account, I have enough money personally that I can say, hey, I can loan my company money to make it through a tough time. God, hopefully it doesn't happen. You know, during COVID we didn't close. We work on fire apparatuses and a lot of different stuff. So we never closed. My guys didn't want to stay home either.
So everybody around us closed. Everybody's— was actually a good thing. Yeah. So we didn't work anymore. We didn't raise our prices. We didn't do anything. We just did more work. You know, we did a different type of work, I should say. Right. The gravy lickers were all closed down. So we got break jobs and everything. Right. So anyway, so today I want to simplify something that confuses a lot of business owners.
The difference between a cash accounting and accrual accounting. Okay. Simple. Cash accounting is when anything, any money moves. Money comes in, money goes out, it's accounted for. Expense goes out, money comes in, right? Income. Uh, it tracks the money when it actually moves. That's like this, like I just said that, meaning when the money comes into your bank account or the money leaves your bank account, that's it.
It's tracked. Okay. So if a customer pays you, the income counts today. If your vendor— if you pay your vendor, the expense counts today. Simple as that, right? A lot of smaller businesses use this method because it's easy to understand. Basically, they can look at their bank account, see what's going on at all times, right? But I'm not going to go ahead on the pages, but what ends up happening, it's a lot harder to check the metrics.
And I'm going to explain why here in a minute to see what's going on in your business. A lot smaller businesses use this method because it's easy to understand. And honestly, many businesses under $1 million or so a year, especially like service businesses like the cash accounting, it works pretty well in the beginning. But as you start to scale out, I'm going to tell you why the problems become readily apparent that it's not going to work for you.
Okay. Because early on, many business owners are— they're interested, you know, you're new, you're a service business, you're worried about making payroll, you're paying your bills, you're keeping the cash in the bank and surviving, right? Yeah. So you're sitting there trying to do all this stuff. Okay. Your service business, you're brand new. I got 5 refrigerators to go fix this week. That's $500.
That means my payroll is $200. I have $300 left to pay for the expenses. Whatever's left, that's what I get to keep type of thing, right? Simple. That's how pretty much how simple it is on me just parroting it down, right? So cash accounting feels natural because you're basically watching the checking account, like I just said, right? And for smaller operations, that could work fine for a while.
But as the business grows and things start to changing, now you have problems that come up with this. And this is what I was trying to tell one of my clients' accountants yesterday. And this is where this whole thing came from. It caused— it becomes— it caused problems in the business being a cash— on a cash basis. And I'm going to show you why.
Customers start paying late. Okay. You have fleet accounts. That's a big one. Fleet accounts want terms, right? Yeah. Your accounts receivable, your vendor bills. Your inventory, your larger repair orders, you start paying for all this stuff, paying for labor and all that stuff. What happens if they don't pay right away? It could skew your months because you do all this work in, say, March.
So you look like you had a really kick-ass month. The money went out of your account. The money went out of your account. You really did good on an operational basis, but you never got paid till April. So March, it looks like, holy shit, all the money went out of the bank. Then April, all the money came back. So it doesn't flow.
They don't talk to each other, basically. Now, with accrual, it's the same way, but you have an accounting that you can kind of go through and follow it along. Okay. You could look like March was a really shitty month and you're like, oh my God, what are we doing on April? We're stars in April. Yeah, exactly. That's it. Because you got paid, right?
Your inventory, you start keeping more and more inventory. You got to remember, you're a refrigerator repair company. You have a credit card. I go over to Jason Tracy's house. I fix the— I just say I fix the refrigerator. I go to the— I need the parts. I go to the refrigerator parts store, pick up the parts, put them on the credit card, get the money from Jason Tracy.
The bill's $200. I paid $100 in parts. Jason Tracy made $50. The company keeps $50. That's how simple it is, really. But can you see how when it gets bigger, you have Glendale or Auto Value or Napa coming in your door 15 times a day? You're going to swipe your credit card 15 times a day. It just kind of— then your credit card bill, it's just it's a little bit easier to have kind of accounts, you know, as you get bigger.
And that's why you kind of want to do accrual. That way at the end of the month you can see what you owe and you kind of get, you know, a bigger picture. Yeah. Uh, you know, and jobs are crossing over from month to month and into another month are cause of problem. Now the cash accounting starts creating problems because it can distort how the business is actually performing.
You can't really see it. Kind of gets distorted if you got having in one month and collecting in the other, you're paying and stuff like that. So let's say your shop does a huge— I already went ahead, but here's a huge repair in March, right? The technicians do the work in March, the vehicle leaves in March, right? But the customer doesn't pay until April.
I just literally said this, right? With the cash accounting, March looks terrible because no cash came in yet. Then April suddenly looks amazing because the money finally shows up. You know what I mean? Yep. But operationally, the shop actually performed well in March. Yep. Grainger knows when you're a procurement manager for an office park, you're not managing one building, you're managing all of them.
And to stay ahead, you need to see through walls and around corners. Lights about to fail, filters ready to clog, HVAC on its last leg. If you wait until something breaks, you're already behind. Count on Grainger. For quality products, easy reordering, and 24/7 support. Call 1-800-Granger, click granger.com, or just stop by. Granger, for the ones who get it done. Hey sweetie, your mother showed me this Carvana thing for selling the car.
I'm gonna give it a try. Wish me luck. Me again. I put in the license plate, it gave me an offer. Unbelievable. Okay, I accepted the offer. They're picking it up Tuesday from the driveway. I haven't even left my chair. It's done. The car is gone. I'm holding a check. Anyway, Carvana, give it a whirl. Love ya. So good, you'll want to leave a voicemail about it.
Sell your car today on Carvana. Pickup fees may apply. So that's where accrual accounting comes in. Accrual accounting records the work when the work actually happens, not when the cash actually moves. Remember, the cash actually comes into your bank account or as an expense leaves your bank account. That's what it only records when it moves. Yeah, that's why I want to say the word moves.
I want to be very clear. Anytime something happens in your bank account, in a cash expense or income, that's when it's recorded. So if the repair is completed in March and the sale belongs in March, that gives you a much more accurate picture of the business performance because everything's— well, let's use the word closed. Yeah. Which we all know, and I've talked about it before in here, that in our business you just sometimes cannot close everything in one month.
You'll have carryover work. Right? Yeah. But you try to keep it to a minimum. But in our business, sometimes it happens and it goes over, right? But it gives you a much more accurate picture of performance. Okay. So that's when, you know, reality was— I guess that's when reality sets in, when you start to see what you're actually doing per month. You know, I personally like the net.
As we all know, I'm not an accountant. That's why I'm reading off this so I don't misspeak. Okay. I'm not a CPA. By any means, but I'm self-taught and, you know, I've always been accrual. So the cash thing was new to me. I'm like, ah, I need to really look into this because, you know, I'm a consultant, but I'm not a CPA.
Oh yeah. I know how to run businesses, but I'm not a CPA. Right. I have CPAs that I hire to work for, does do my stuff. Right. Maria, you know, but we do our own bookkeeping. Me and my wife do, you know, so, and this becomes really important when you start looking at your income statement, which income statement, P&L, it's kind of a universal word depending who's talking about it.
In what world, I should say, right? Or, you know, or what people, most people call their P&L. Your P&L is supposed to tell you, are you profitable? Are your margins healthy? Is your labor improving? Is, are your parts profitable? And remember when I talked about your shop management program, at the end you get a gross profit, right? It's just gross profit. Same as the top of your P&L sheets with your cost of goods sold.
You get your gross profit, your cost of goods sold, and then we're going to kind of match, right? So that's stuff you really want to look at as a business owner. With the cash, it's a little bit harder because you get the income statement, as they call it. You have to kind of do the checking in on stuff like that. It's a little bit harder.
It could be— they could vary. So you might not be where you should— you think you are because stuff happens with cash. I mean, it's a true picture, right? It's easier to manage. But for performance tracking and really drilling down on the numbers, you know, it's not. Yeah. So is your business getting stronger or weaker? You know, that's something, you know, but if your numbers are cash-based, those reports can become very misleading.
You know, one month looks incredible and next month looks terrible. I mean, okay, let's just take the, the numbers part of this out. Let's talk about it from a business owner stress point. Okay. A guy who really doesn't know his numbers. Calls his accountant because he doesn't know his numbers. And he says, I don't have no money in my bank. And they're like, oh my God, what happened in March?
You spent all this money. And what happened? I don't know. Well, the bank statement's not out yet. So we're not going to, the accountant's not going to look at the bank statement in March and see that the guy spent all this money. And wait a second, where's the, what kind of money did you collect? Right. Then all of a sudden, you know, April comes along.
2 weeks into April, the guy pays and all of a sudden, oh, we're rich again. The bank account just went back up. So it might take a little bit of time for the accountant to figure all this out because of the cash basis. So it's kind of interesting. I mean, once again, I'm not an accountant. I'm going to say this again, 100 fucking times, 101, but these guys that call their accountant and say, how am I doing my business?
The accountant doesn't know. Your accountant doesn't know. If you're calling your accountant and say, how am I doing? Or do I need to spend money? Or do I need to do this and stuff like that? This is a problem, guys. And I called my accountant yesterday after I got off the phone with this other accountant and I said, hey, let me run this stuff by you.
And we got talking. She's like, Kevin, you have to understand something. People don't know their numbers like you do. She's like, and it's not just your business. She's like, just in every business. These business owners are putting out fires all day. They're running around like maniacs. It's chaos in their business. Because they don't have operating procedures, they don't have the right people in place, whatever you want to say.
They don't know their numbers, so they count on us to tell them what their numbers are. She's like, I can do it, because my— obviously we had Maria on here, she's awesome, she's freaking— when I talk to her on the phone and say, what about this, I could hear her tick with her calculator and she gives me answers. She's smart, she's like a forensic CPA.
Yeah, I love how she talked about like putting the forensics of TJ's books together and like all this stuff, right? And she's very sharp at it, okay? So Absolutely. I call her and say, hey, I'm getting ready to do this strategically from a tax standpoint. How should I handle this? And she'll say, no, that's not a good idea, or you're looking at this wrong, or you're wrong on this, blah, blah, blah.
But at the end of the day, I have my nuts and bolts. I kind of know where my numbers are. We go to the office, her office, she'll start telling me and I'll start spitting them out and I'll be within a few thousand dollars. We'll be within a few thousand dollars of each other, which is just rounding and stuff like that. And she always laughs.
She's like, you really, really do eat, breathe, and sleep this stuff. I worry about it all the time. I want to make sure my businesses are healthy. There's families that depend on me. Yeah, it's just not me and my family. Yeah. In my house and my— okay, I have other families. I have my— I have employees that have young kids now and stuff like that.
I take my job very seriously as a business owner. Yes, I want to make money. Absolutely. That's the first and foremost thought in my head every day. Money, money, money, money, money. But I want to make sure there's enough money so I could pay my bills, pay my employees, take care of warranty situations and all that. In order to do that, I have to know what The money I'm making, it all comes back down to the numbers.
They do not lie. The numbers do not lie. If you have good numbers, garbage in, garbage out, but we have good numbers going in, good numbers coming out. I think it's so important to translate what the money does, because it's not just like the greed of like, oh, I want more money, want more money. It's the more money to pay your people well, to give your people a high quality of life, to have healthy businesses, to like, it's, it's, it's going to causes.
It's the money. I think you said this before, the money has a name to it. Yeah, absolutely. Every dollar has a name and has a use. We always make sure of that, you know. Um, you know, so that's why accrual accounting becomes much better for performance tracking, because now you can actually monitor your gross profit, your labor margins, your parts margins, your sales trends, your technician productivity, which is done on the front end.
But you know, you could do it in your cost of goods sold. Also, you know, what these guys produce, I guess not in the cost of goods sold, what these guys are producing or not producing. And your operating performance, you know, um, your gross profit is done right here. I will say on your front end, that's where you have to set it up in your shop management program at the front desk.
It's not the QuickBooks job to make sure that's right. It's QuickBooks' job, I believe, to check your shop management program. Okay. So you can start watching your labor margins, your parts margins, all that stuff. On the front end, but then you come through, you can start looking at your sales trends year to year and stuff like that. Technician productivity is done on the Shop Management program.
So really this particular section of it, I don't really necessarily agree with 100%, but operating performance and your net profit in your accounting program, whether it's QuickBooks, whatever, is very important because if there's a minus in front of it, you have to look and say, okay, why is there a minus in front of it? Okay, that's a big deal because you can't be necessarily losing money.
Yeah. You know, and you got to remember with your P&L sheets, if you're looking, if you do a year to date from, say, January 1st to end of April, because we're not closed out in May, you can see the trends. You can say, okay, wait a second here. I know last month it was my net profit was this. What happened? Why did it drop down?
Like April, I had a bad month. Just like everybody has, and my net profit was down year to date. So I caught that. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the stuff I think that needs to be monitored. Obviously, I know why it went down. I'm completely— it is what it is. Sometimes you just, you just don't have a ton of sales that month or stuff happened or whatever.
Like it's been slow because of the oil and the gas and everything like that. And this time of the year is usually, you know, kids are getting ready to get out of school and, you know, everybody's excited about Memorial Day. So there's a lot of different things that play in it because let's face it, Nowadays, I don't know if you've noticed it, people are now taking off the day before the holiday, like the Friday before Memorial Day.
Like nobody was working. I'm like, why the fuck is nobody working? Like ever since COVID like people really realize— stretch their holidays. They stretch their— they realize that taking time off is more important. Yeah. Yeah. You know, that's why we have these different companies that popped up, you know, the DoorDashes, the Instacart, whatever, these booms or whatever. And these people can set their own schedule.
So now they're having to enjoy their time off, which I think people are starting to understand that, you know, life is short. Take time off. And I think COVID, that was one good thing. That was a great thing out of COVID Absolutely. You know, and you know, so it's just, instead of watching your cash bounce around month to month, like you do on cash now, you know, it doesn't mean that your cash isn't important.
Cash flow is extremely important. We all know that, right? You could actually be profitable and still run out of cash if your customers don't pay enough or fast enough, right? That's with accrual or your expenses get too high. This is where it comes in again, guys. You're doing really good on the front end. Everything's perfect. Everything's— all your margins are great, right?
Everything looks good. Your costs look good. Look. So then you go to the center of the P&L sheet we talked about and your overhead's so high it kills all that profit, all that profit, all that profit. We put a new car payment on there. We did this. We went on vacation. Whatever. And all of a sudden we doop, doop, doop, doop, and there's a minus at that net.
Then you do that 3 or 4 months in a row, then people don't pay you, you run out of money. And that doesn't matter if you're cash or accrual. It means you're running out of money because you're not charging enough and your overhead's too high. Okay. But obviously somebody not paying you is a much bigger deal. If you pay for everything, you would take a loss on a job, right?
Yeah. Because every job we have figured out, okay, it costs us X amount of money to do this job. We have to make X amount of money. On this job to pay our overhead, right? If we don't ever collect that money, we lose money. Then it translates to going— we don't make negative, right? You know, I had a client say, you know, I did all these sales, I don't have no money.
I said, yes you do. It shows right there you have the money. Guess where it's at? In everybody else's fucking bank account, because you will not bill them. And I cannot stress to you guys enough, and you know who I'm talking about, the guy knows who I'm talking about. You need to start writing bills because if you don't collect the money, you might as well stay home.
Why put yourself through all the hassle? Go buy your auto parts from the auto parts store. Make— they make money. Guess what they send you every month? A bill, right? Your gas company, your electrical company, your insurance company, every company you do business with, what do they do? They send you a bill. They send you a bill. So why would you not send somebody else a bill to collect your money to pay your bills?
It makes zero sense. You cannot be that busy not to pay your fricking— write your customers an invoice. And to your point, when you have like fleet companies and stuff like that and businesses, they want terms. There are people that already don't want to pay you, right? If you're lackadaisical about collecting your payment, yeah, they will not pay you. Absolutely. They'll be happy to not pay you.
Like we talked about, some of these big ballers now, 60 days, you're done, we're not paying you. That's dead money to them. So, and how could you not pay or write somebody an invoice for 60 days after you're done with the job. Yeah, I know my shop, when you get done with the job, you get a bill. Yeah, here is the end result, sir, the invoice, you know.
So to the point where you tell people like, I want to get paid just as much as you want your vehicle back. I tell people that too. So smart, smart, so smart business owners watch both. They watch cash flow, they also watch, you know, accrual-based performance, because they tell you two different things. Cash tells you where the money is. Accrual tells you how the business is actually performing.
If you really stop and think about it, we have to know where the cash is. And you've heard me talk about this before. Back in the day when we had a lot of fleet accounts that were on terms, since over the years I've weaned them out, I only have 3 or 4. I do not give terms. I'm not a fucking bank. But I have a few customers that have been with me a long time that I trust and I give them terms.
What happens if all my bills are due and I'm owed $80,000? That's, that right there is a little bit of a cash flow problem because I have the money. It's just not where I want it to be at that particular moment. Yep. I used to tell my wife, I said, when we, when we were kind of weaning out, I said, we have the money.
It's just, we just don't have the money where we want it right now. It's coming. These people will pay us. So, you know, that's where, you know, cash tells you where the money is, you know what I'm saying? Cash flow and all that stuff. Uh, accrual tells you how the business is performing. Cause we have a rec— remember, we have everything that went happened through the months.
We have an accrual accounting system, you know, and once, you know, a business starts growing, accrual accounting usually becomes better tool for truly understanding the health of the company. Company because you're not— you think about it, you're bouncing back and forth and stuff like that. Now, just on a side note, I think it's an IRS Form 3315 to switch your status from cash to accrual or back and forth.
It just popped into my head. Don't ask me why, but that's an important note because how do you make that change? Yeah, you would talk to your accountant and stuff like that. So hopefully this helps you guys with the difference. Uh, you know, cash accounting is simple and works fine for many smaller businesses, service types of business like we talked about, refrigerator repair, small repair shops, stuff like that.
But accrual accounting gives you a clearer picture of real business performance as the company grows. That's pretty much where I'm at on that. I just wanted to talk about that. So let's talk about the numbers and why a lot of these business owners rely on their accountants. And I'm not sure that's necessarily a great idea. It's kind of like me standing behind a wall and trying to, to articulate to you what's going on in my business.
They see the numbers, but let's just use a cash system to start. I'm doing all this work and everything's going on, but I'm not billing on the— at my end. So I'm collecting a little bit of money, but I'm not really billing my customers. So I'm not collecting all the money. Okay. Accrual, or cash does not matter if I don't write the invoice.
Yeah, yep, because you're not collecting that money anyways. It's not even hopeful money, right? So basically what I'm doing, no matter what I do, the numbers are going to be wrong because I'm buying the parts, I'm paying the labor, but I'm never writing the invoice. Oh my God, isn't that crazy? That's crazy that there's like so many people, and it's not just one person, there's so many people that are just not writing their invoices.
Yeah, and it's That was like one of the things I really found shocking when I got into the consulting, coaching, whatever you want to call it nowadays, new words. The invoices don't get written to these customers. How can you be so lackadaisical that you do not even frickin' write an invoice? You give people your money. Listen to me, people. You're literally working for free.
If you're not giving them the invoice when they walk out, chances are it's going to go a week or two down the road. And I guarantee if you're not writing the invoice, that means you're all the parts and all the labor and everything that happened on that bill was shitty in the first place. So you're already giving money away because it's not all captured on the invoice because it's not fresh in your mind.
It's no difference when my wife goes on vacation or she's at Florida for the 2 weeks that she goes or at a time and stuff happens. She comes back at the end of June and she starts talking about what happened in May. What is this in May? I have to go back and research it. Yeah. Okay. 9 times out of 10, I could pretty much tell her right off the rip if it's something that was a little bit weird.
I know it in my mind already. Um, but everything is such a fucking mess in your shop, you can't write an invoice. That means the parts weren't— all the parts weren't captured, all the oils weren't captured. Okay, what if the guy does a $30,000 job and you leave it sitting there and he gets fired and he never put the oil in it, he put on the antifreeze, whatever, you paid for it all, it never even hit the invoice.
And on top of it, you're not even writing the invoice. Okay, there's so many problems involved in this whole thing that most shop owners just don't get. And then it all translates down to, I can't afford to pay you anymore, you know, Mr. Mechanic. I'm gonna put everybody on flat rate. That way, you know, they only get paid for what they produce.
Okay, there's— and then they never even pay, they never even collect the money. So then they run into money problems and they don't pay their people on time. And then they do this and they're so— they just think about The snowball that starts happening, it's just getting bigger and bigger as we keep talking. And it all comes down to there's no discipline as a business owner.
A lot of these shop owners have to run out in their shop and act like fucking psychopaths and help everybody do their job. They can't do their job. So there's going to be some hard truths being told here. If you're a shop owner, you need to run your shop. You need to work on your business, not in your business. Okay? The numbers don't lie.
You have to know your numbers. If you don't know how to know your numbers or you don't— I don't know how to read your numbers, look at your numbers. Go to your accountant. Sit down with your accountant once a month. Pay the money. But guess what? I can't pay the money because I don't even know how to fucking write a bill. So I have no money to pay the accountant because I can't write a bill.
Okay? You say there's this great mechanic. You're a business owner now. You were a mechanic. You said, I'm going to start a shop. So you start a shop. You could fix the shit out of trucks. You're one of the best guys around, right? But you can't write an invoice. You cannot even articulate it to paper to get paid, or your priorities are so fucked up you'd rather just hurry up and fix Jason's truck because Bob's truck's there and Fred's truck there, and they're all my buddies.
They're your buddies only till you give them a fucking invoice. They love you because guess how good their business runs? Because they don't have truck repair costs because you never bill them. Think about it. And then it goes 2 or 3 months down the road, and then you miss all this shit. You don't know what really happened in that job. Then they start questioning you.
It's always amazing. They have a million and one fucking questions. When you give them the invoice 2 months later. Why did we really do this? Why did we do that? What happened here? You can't even remember because you've worked on 100 trucks since. And then you're probably discounting now at this point because you have— you can't back it up. You have no confidence on it, right?
And then these guys— hear me now— these guys on social media are going, we're really slow, so what I'm doing is I'm discounting my works. I'm saying 20% off on this, 20% off on that. 20%. How are you giving 20% off on anything, or 10%, or 5%, when you don't even know how much your freaking gross is? You don't even know how to bill.
You don't even know how to write a bill. Not to mention, you're gonna give 20% off on a fucking bill you're not even gonna write. Why don't you give 100% off? Just be forthright. Just be free. Just be free. You get a repair, you get a repair. Yeah, it's fair. Like, and I'm not saying every shop owner doesn't write a bill, but I've come across a few that don't write bills and they have this mental thing like you don't think your customers will be your friends if you invoice them.
Well, and you said something about like now you can't pay your employees in the mindset that you can't take care of your people, but you don't want to offend your customers by sending them a bill. And I had this client that went through my bootcamp and she literally gave a piece of equipment to a customer on a promise that they were going to pay for it.
And this piece of equipment was $3,500 and then they just ghosted her.. And so she came to bootcamp all upset and crying because she had to pay $3,500 out of her own pocket and she couldn't pay her own mortgage. And I'm like, how does that feel that you can't feed your kids? How does that feel that you can't pay the bills and you can't, you know, protect your kids, but your customers out there with a free piece of equipment, take care of your home, take care of your people.
And you know, like if, if you're not taking care of your people inside that building, then like, what are you even doing? I know a company right now that is doing pretty shitty, and it's not in the auto repair business. They're giving 60 days of terms on their equipment to get people to buy it. These fucking people have college degrees, they have titles like CFO, okay, all this stuff, but they're not understanding.
They're giving 60-day terms and they're having cash flow problems paying their bills on the other end, and they're They're paying for this equipment, they're building this equipment, they're doing all this stuff, and they're giving 60-day terms on this shit to get the sales, to keep their numbers up. But they have a cash flow problem over there. How could that even be? Yeah.
Okay. They got more fucking degrees than a thermometer, but they can't even figure this shit out. Here I am, a little fucking pipsqueak in the cog of life, okay, doing what I do. And I've sat there and tortured myself to the point where I'm my worst own enemy. Hear me now. I am my worst own enemy. I see one little thing. It's like, you ever see a dog that gets a little itch and they just keep scratching and it gets raw and before it's a bloody fucking spot?
That's me. Okay. I see a problem and I start scratching and start looking at it and dissecting it and looking here, looking here. What happened here? And I go back to the very beginning and I have it figured all out. Okay. Most guys don't even have time to do that, but I beat myself to death over the years. Okay. Everybody's like, oh yeah, you're a business owner.
It's easy. I work 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. If I am not thinking about it laying in bed, I'm fucking having dreams about work. Okay? And anybody that's a business owner says, oh, it's not okay. Is the stress worth the reward? For me, yes. But it's taken me many years to get to where I'm at. Okay? Am I arrogant sounding?
Yeah, I probably do sound arrogant to some of these losers online. And I'm saying some of these losers online that say, I can't believe this guy always talks about this stuff. Okay, and then some guy said, I wouldn't take advice how to take a shit from you. I said, I wouldn't give a loser fucking advice. I wouldn't let you consult me on taking a shit.
I said, well, I wouldn't consult a loser. Okay, because anybody who does not find value in some of the things I say, maybe not all of them, maybe it doesn't hit with you or resonate with you. Yeah, but maybe you're not their personality, but like to say that you're wrong is stupid, right? Um, you know, there's things that some other influencers say online I agree with, I don't agree with.
Um, I don't fricking get on there and bust their balls all the time. I did at the very beginning. But you know what it does? It's just not worth it. So I really don't care about their opinion. And like Dave Ramsey says, would you take criticism from somebody you wouldn't take advice from? Okay. And I always look at it this way, like, I don't take advice from people less successful than me.
Can I learn something from somebody? Absolutely. But I'm sure not going to take a guy's advice on, you know, running my business and stuff like that when he's already done bankruptcy 4 times. And there's guys out there that are always willing to give you advice. Yeah. Yeah. There's a guy. That you could read the thing, and he never answered me. He's in Michigan.
Actually, let me see if I could pull it up because I told him he's 100% wrong. Um, I think these are the— I think these are great learning. Let's see here, it's thinking. You know, Facebook's been slow lately. Slow, yeah. Uh, messages. Inbox. Here he is. Dean. Dean Gaffner is his name. I'm talking about charging storage. He says, on the other hand, on the other end, if you're in an accident, they will only cover 4 days of storage.
Anything more the auto owner is responsible for. And I put wrong in all caps. He said, what's wrong? I said, you saying only if they only cover 4 days. They have done it to us twice in my buddy's shop on 4 occasions. So, so, so I'm not wrong. Sorry, I'm reading it just a little bit miscue. Yeah, you can make it a blank.
You can't make a blanket statement. When it happened to you and your buddy. That doesn't mean it happens to everybody. Sounds like to me you don't know how to run a body shop or don't know how to run a business. He's like, wow, that's pretty ballsy. I said, why, thank you. He said, pretty easy to hide behind your screen. You must be a keyboard warrior, my friend.
I said, you commented on my post with misinformation. Trust me, I'm not hiding behind my keyboard. He said, I know two people that have had it done is some misinformation. I'm sure, uh, I didn't miss it when they screwed over their customer. Now I'm reading what he says. That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Well, I just got 70 days storage on one.
This is me. Also 7 days on another. I see you're in Michigan. Stop by Motor City Truck Collision. I'll show you the invoices and I'll help you write up your— is in order to show you how to collect on storage fees. He said only State Farm has done it. I'm not sure if the other ones have. Wait a second, up above you said nobody.
Yeah, okay. I said State Farm just paid me, uh, $900, 9 days of storage. Here's the invoice. I sent them pictures. Yeah, okay. I said, so here's a State Farm job, stop by. Guess what? He read the last one, never answered me. Okay, I have no problem freaking arguing with somebody when they talk their bullshit like that. That's what's wrong with all this.
It's really funny when they say that you're a keyboard warrior hiding behind the screen because you pick up the phone and call people. Yeah, I pick up the phone and call. If I had his phone number, I would have called him. He's in Michigan. He's in two of the Facebook groups. I know he's in Michigan. Stop by. If I'm a keyboard warrior, stop by.
Let's talk it out. I'll show you what I'm talking about and I'll show you you're wrong. Now, would State Farm screw you if you let them? Absolutely. But I don't let them. Here it is, like, stop talking shit. Like, I'm not a keyboard warrior. I stand behind what I do and what I say. Yeah, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Call me out.
I mean, Jesus Christ, how much do people call us out online? It was funny because I saw the comment, the message come through that said, you're ballsy. And then I went back and read what you said, and I'm like, what's he like? Where was he so offended? I didn't understand because you were just pointing out to him where he was wrong. Yeah, I'm not going to sit here and argue with people.
I'm not going to sit there and let them just say the shit and it's wrong, and then all of a sudden everybody's like— everybody stops even trying to charge State Farm more than 4 days, and then State Farm wins. Exactly. Come on, Dean. Yeah, wake the fuck up. And you're putting out the content for the reason— for a reason. It's not just— just to help people understand the information.
Yeah. And you know what, going over to running a shop and on the body shop part of it. We do emails only now is our policy, back and forth to the insurance companies with the customer involved in it. Because we just had one that was here 101 days and their storage bill was 101 days when they totaled it. They freaked out. We busted down the timeline.
They— I said, we— Jim went through and he said, do you realize 51 days before anything happened was on you? The vehicle is towed in unannounced. We said, we'll do an estimate. They said, nope, we have to send our people out to do an estimate. They sent a 12-year-old kid out to take pictures that was pissing his pants. We tried to talk to him.
I just got to take pictures. He took all the pictures, took it back to somebody. We get this half-cocked estimate and we finally got the check 51 days later. We worked on the vehicle. It's— we pulled it in 5 days later. It sat for 2 weeks because we got busy doing other stuff. We had parts delivery problems and stuff like that. So then we called them and said, hey, we found more stuff wrong.
And then we said we need a supplement. They said it's a total loss. So between all that, it was 101 days. So we billed them for 101 days. And he said, well, wait a second here with the timeline, you this, you that. I said, oh, fine, you say we wasted 21 days. We argued. He said we wasted all the time. But once we laid out who was who.
We were, we were responsible for 21 days. So we took 21 days off that 101, said, here you go, you owe us the rest. Guess what? They paid. Okay. When you can prove the timeline is on them, how can they argue? How can they argue with it? Now, I have heard that. I have heard that they'll bring you the title and say, here, have the fucking thing, or send the title to you and dump it on you, or just dump it on you and never even pick it up.
I have heard insurance companies doing that to people. Huh. So, but on a side note, but let's go back to these guys that aren't writing invoices and they do write the invoice, but they don't charge enough money 'cause they don't want to upset the customer by it's too expensive. Let me tell you something, guys. Everything's become really, really expensive. Ridiculously, the Isuzu dealer by us is $238 an hour now.
We're $217 an hour. You know, we do medium and light trucks and stuff like that. We get that for pickup trucks and everything like that. So are you gonna lose all your customers 'cause your labor rate's high? You might lose the right customers. The good customers will stay with you. People that find value in your quality work. Yeah, yeah. Your professionalism, your warranties and stuff like that.
You might not be appealing to the broke people, but who wants to work for broke people? Broke people bring their own set of problems. Yeah. Am I being arrogant? Goddamn right. Because I don't want to work on broke people's shit because I'm the guys that I've gotten in fights with over the years. Hey, you need Kingpins, ball joints, or tie rods, you know, shocks, this.
And they start screaming, yelling at you because they spent all their money. On their brand new Jaguar because they're a business owner and they roll up to look at their truck and their brand new car and they're telling you they can't afford to fix their truck or DOT their truck, but they're driving a brand new Jaguar. And this has happened over years, over years, over years.
BMW. These guys walk in, they're dripping Rolex watches, the whole nine yards, right? And they don't have money to fix their truck. That happens all the time. So them are the guys, you know, that you don't really want as customers anyway. They're a liability. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, chances are they're going to try to dick you around on paying you. And stuff like that.
And that's where it led into us getting deposits, you know, half down on stuff like that. So, you know, it helps with cash flow and all this stuff on these bigger truck jobs too. On some of these big jobs, it helps with cash flow. It's fixed the cash flow problem. But going back to the key thing here, we have to start at the front of the office and the shop management program like I talked about, writing the invoice, making sure the numbers are correct, then, you know, doing the job.
Make sure we capture all the parts on repair order, then send it back up to the front when the job is done, and then bill the customer. Then after we bill the customer, we get paid, and then we go back to the back office after the end of the month, or, you know, every 3 months or every other month, how you read your P&L and say, okay, how am I doing?
Mm-hmm. And guys are just not doing that. And I'm telling you guys, you have to start paying attention to your numbers. If not, you're literally in a mud slick. You're just spinning your tires. You're going nowhere. And the faster you press your gas, what does it do to your vehicle? It makes it more and more tired, right? It wears it out. That's what you're doing to your body.
Do you want to end this being in this business as a shop owner, not taking the time to figure out your numbers and being broke and say, man, I had my own business my whole life. Now I have to live on $1,600 a month Social Security because I never did anything and I've never been able to keep an employee because I never would do retirement.
I never did a a healthcare program. I never did any of this stuff. So I, it's me, me, me. I took, you know, I'm making $80,000 a year out of my business and I'm doing $1 million or $1.2 million a year. Okay, go work for somebody. Yeah. If you cannot make money and treat your people good or even take the time to learn your numbers, I'm not even saying you need to be the level I'm at because I have, you know, I have 4 or 5 different things going on, right?
I, with my personality, I like to know what's going on. I don't want to take, you know, anybody else's word for what's going on in my business. So I figure it out. Now, sometimes it gets a little above me, so I'll call Maria and be like, hey, what's— what does this exactly mean on my tax return? And she'll explain it to me, right?
And I'm not— once again, I'm not a CPA. Yeah. So I don't feel stupid calling her. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So I'm at the level of these other shop owners. Maybe there's other guys, other shop owners, I'm sure above me, right? But in my companies, I make sure I watch the numbers and I watch what's going on. Like, my insurance has gone up substantially.
There's a meeting with my insurance guy next week. Like, dude, you cannot raise my insurance as much as you did my health insurance, okay? I'm gonna have to start shopping you if it goes up again next year when we renew. This is ridiculous, okay? But then you start looking at the trends that they're doing it to everybody. Yeah. So you have to start moving stuff to keep your overhead down.
But how do you even know that if you don't look at last year's P&L and this year's P&L to see where the increases are? You know, because increases usually come the first, second month of the year, right? Yeah. So you can go back last year and say, okay, I want to do a, you know, side-by-side P&L sheet with percentage of income. So it'll show you your percentages and like, oh shit, that just went up.
You know, that translates to real dollars, right? If I'm doing the same amount of sales, but all of a sudden That went up, that went up, that went up. What happens to that net we talked about? The P&L goes down, right? And the reason I'm repeating this, guys, is because you guys not knowing your numbers, this is all happening right before your eyes and you're wondering why your bank account shrinking to pay your bills every month, but you're doing the same amount of numbers.
There's only a couple of things that could be happening. If your numbers are staying the same, meaning your sales are the same, what's killing it? Yeah. Yeah. Your overhead went up. You know, I like these guys that just want to throw another service advisor in the fucking mix. Like, you know, I don't think my techs are producing enough, I'm gonna throw another service advisor in there and have another service advisor.
That's a fucking direct add-on to the freaking middle of your P&L sheet. That comes right off your bottom line. So you better figure out how are we going to offset this $100,000 or $80,000 or whatever a year right off. You know, it's kind of like that I talked about in The ONE Thing, you know, The guy goes to his accountant. This was like a fricking meme in the, I think it was Crain's Detroit Business or whatever.
You know, the guy has his P&L sheet and his accountant's there. He's like, I didn't make no money this year. You know, I'm broke. Look at my P&L sheet. It's at zero. I didn't make no money, you know? And they're like, well, where did you figure this out? He's like, I figured out at my lake house, my company lake house up at, you know, you know, and you know, and oh really?
You went to your company lake? Yeah. You know, I drove my company convertible up there. You know, he's not realizing that all this shit he's buying out of the company, anything an owner takes out of the company is profit. It comes, you know what I'm saying? So he buys a car, he buys a house, he buys this, he does this, he pays people to go like, that's all you're taking out of your, your, your company.
That's all profit. That'd be all an add back if you were selling your company to private equity. Like you're taking all this money and then you're like, we're not making any money. My guys aren't working fast enough. No. Everything stayed the same. But look at this line right here. Lake house, car, like, you know what I mean? Gas, all that stuff comes out.
So you have to take that into consideration when you're not making— you keep saying, well, a lot of these guys say, well, I don't make any money. Well, then you look at their house and you look at their car, you look at this and you're like, you're not making any money. How are you paying for all this? Well, my company pays for my brand new platinum truck.
That was $120,000. Like, well, wait a second here. You know, you do, you know, you are making money. Yeah. There's called the, you know, what is it? PUCC, personal use of a company car. You should be being taxed on that. That's all the stuff an accountant needs to keep track of, a good accountant. So when the IRS comes, if they ever do, God forbid, wait a second, that company truck, how much you drive it?
Oh, I drive it 100% for work. Well, wait a second. You just told me you drove it back and forth home. That's not working. That's going to the soccer game on the weekend is not working. Like I talk about all this stuff to try to get people to think about, you know, all the money and where it goes and it all matters and it all can kill a company.
But the main thing will kill a company. I guarantee you 110%, go ahead and do not write your customer an invoice. You will kill your company if you're doing all the work and not invoicing for it. You're doing it for free. You are now a charity. Congratulations. You and the Salvation Army, right? How do you convert to be a nonprofit? Yeah, right.
Even the nonprofits pay their CEOs off. They say nonprofits— there's a misconception they're not making money, they just spend it. They just, they spend it in most of the time not physically great places, right? They go there and they got a freaking, you know, food, food spread every day at freaking lunchtime. They're nonprofits. Profit and selling it. We've all been to them nonprofit organization golf outings.
They're giving everybody gold fricking presidential Rolexes. We're nonprofit, you know, you know, it's like, holy shit. But you know, um, a lot of these, and you know, it's not just our business talking to my accountant. It's a lot of businesses that are like this, that, you know, these guys just kill it. And in closing, I'll tell you the most dangerous type of business owner is third generation statistically.
Grandpa built it. Dad worked with Grandpa. Yeah. Okay. So Dad kind of knows. Then Junior comes along. It's the new world. You don't really need to work that hard. You don't need to do this. You don't need to do that. And then he starts spending more than that company's bringing in. He then all of a sudden, you know, I've seen it happen before.
Then they jack up their prices to offset their, their lifestyle, their lavish lifestyle. Yep. You know, well, it's like the guy you bought the house from, you know, when, when mom's paying the bills and all those kind of things, do you really care or know, understand work ethic? Everything's things just kind of handed to support your lifestyle and you have this lifestyle, you don't go and like think about how to— like the last episode, if you don't understand your personal finances, you're not going to all of a sudden understand your business finances.
No, 100%. And I— and a lot of shop owners can understand this. How many of you guys notice when a technician buys his own tool, he'll get all done with it, he'll fucking wipe it off, he'll polish it, he'll set it back in his drawer, Then there's your specialty shop tool. That motherfucker's laying over in the corner when he got done with it and he'll get to it when he's done.
It's not theirs, they didn't pay for it. There's no pain that came along with buying that specialty tool. And I'm not saying every technician, but a lot of 'em, right? There was pain associated with them maybe buying that wrench set and they paying $10 a week. And so they wanna take care of it 'cause that $10 a week is over. So they don't wanna keep going.
I'm just using an example, right? I can remember them days, you know? People just don't respect what they don't earn. It's just the way it is, you know. Uh, I, I'm listening to a really good book right now. Um, I, well, I just got a 1 to 2 hour booking request from the studio. Oh, hell yeah. Um, I wanted to pull this book up because this is a— okay, anybody heard of Dale Carnegie?
Oh yeah, that guy was a fucking genius. Yeah, that guy, his books are amazing. I have all of them. I listen to them all the time. Just because you— How to Stop Worrying and Start Living: Time-Tested Methods for Conquering Worry. This book is insanely good. Uh, it's long as shit too. Uh, this one, I've seen it. Uh, dude, it's— I bet you it's a— what, there's 2 hours and 29 minutes left.
I'm halfway through it. Wow. I listen to them in my truck when I'm driving because that way I just— amazing book. It teaches you about all kinds of different stuff, about people not liking you, your enemies. It's just all— it's fantastic. I listened to Dale Carnegie's sales book, How to Win Friends and Influence People. That was the first book I read. Amazing book.
And I use a lot of his sales tactics. Yep. I always have. Yep. Ever since I read that book, I mean, the guy's a genius. And another book— these are guys, I think these are books you guys all need to read. My library's stupid big. I listen to so many books. Um, another one is The Body Language book. This guy's an ex-FBI.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Body. He's an ex-profiler for the FBI. Yep. This is The Power of Body Language. Ex-FBI agent Joe Navarro. This book is fucking amazing. I use that in a lot of sales meetings and stuff like that when I'm dealing with customers, watching their microexpressions. And I could literally, after I read this book so much, I could literally tell my wife I'm like, look at them people over there.
That lady and her husband or boyfriend are in a fight. She's like, no, they're not. I'm like, watch, look at his legs. And I would point out all the different things. You have to listen to this book. Yeah. And all of a sudden they would start getting agitated, so you could tell they're fighting. I'm like, literally, that, that's how good that book was.
That is awesome. Like, when people recall memories when they're lying, the way they look a certain way, they look to the left versus the— like, amazing. Yeah, like your eye rolls. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You could watch— people all have micro telltales when they're lying to you. You could always, always tell. And it's, it's interesting. Yeah. And I listen to a lot of these books and a lot of these books help me.
I'll find a topic that I don't know about or I'm having a struggle with. And one of the things I do is I worry, you know, I worry about just like every other business owner. Let's be completely 100% honest. When you're kicking ass and your business is doing well, you're up here. I'm the best motherfucking guy at running a business. I know, look at my— do this shit with my hands.
It gets slow. Yeah. And things start to get a little bit weird. Is my pricing too high? Am I doing this? Are my mechanics— that it— then all of a sudden you have this, you have this. So your life is like this. Yeah. You know, and stress is a bigger killer than pretty much anything in middle-aged men. We all get a little chunky, you know, we don't take care of ourselves.
You either turn to alcohol and alcohol is better than obviously dying of stress. Alcohol is a stress reliever. Why is alcohol everywhere? I'm not saying you should drink and stuff like that, but alcohol is universal stress reliever. Yeah. Why do people go and do it? How many TV shows we watch at the end where they sit there and they have a cognac or a whiskey?
Yeah. Yep. It's very common. Yeah, it's very common, you know. And I think being a business owner is very stressful, you know, and I think that it's under these technicians, these crybaby technicians that get on TikTok and all that stuff and sit there and go, yeah, yeah, this fucking people, these fucking business owners do this and do that. You cannot paint people with the same brush.
You cannot paint everybody with the same brush. There's good shop owners and there's bad shop owners, just like there's good technicians and bad technicians. But these guys want to paint everybody with the same brush and they act like the problems aren't real. Yeah. Okay. We're dealing— I'm dealing with my problems. You go deal with your problems. Oh, yeah. If you want to trade problems, you'll have to get bigger, right?
But you're— if you're at the top like I do, do the problems I deal with. There's nobody equipped to deal with the problems in my company that I do. Yeah. Now what I've learned is I take other people's perspective and I don't cut them off thinking I know what they're going to say. When I pull Jason in an office or Jim in office, they say, here's our problems, this is what I've identified, what is your take on it?
I want to hear what they have to say. I ask my wife, okay, a lot of times. A lot of times I get told how to do it, how I'm doing it wrong. But I, I sometimes I want to hear her perspective. A lot of times she's in HR, so she's pretty good at looking at stuff different. She points stuff out to me and I don't want to fucking admit it sometimes.
Goddamn, she's spot on, you know what I'm saying? So I do take— this book solidified what I'm saying. It says sometimes you need to take your advisors around you and listen to what they have to say, weigh it all together with your problems, and come up with a solution. Maybe your solution is not 100% accurate because you're narrowed down on the problem.
You're so fixated, you're not seeing the landscape around you. Ask other people, which is true because, you know, I'll give you an example. Jason Spencer, I just think this is hilarious. Probably about 2 years ago, we put a 6.0 back in a truck and it wouldn't start. It didn't have a crank signal. He's like, what the fuck? They're over— him and Jim are over there messing.
He's like, did you check the— yeah, I checked the fucking wires are good. You know, and I walk over there and they've been working out for 2 hours and I look down and I pick it up. Well, sometime or another, somebody had butt connected the harness for the crank sensor. So you got 2 here that go down the crank sensor and 2 here that go over to the FICOM.
They hook these 2 together and these 2 together. They weren't paying attention when he put it back. Jason wasn't paying attention, man. So they're cranking. I'm like, so I go, the wires? Are the wires hooked up? Yeah, the wires are hooked up. I picked up, I go, yeah, to each other. We all busted out laughing. They caught it, hook it, truck fired up.
But my point to that story was they were over there so close to it. They were so sure that they checked everything. They were so narrowed in on it. I walked there and go, hey guys. Easy solution. And we all laughed. We all still laugh about it. Yep. He brought it up the other day. He's like, yeah, it's like hooking Frank wires together.
But my point to that was he was so close to the problem. It just took an outside voice to go, hey, what about that? Yeah. Well, you think about like when you're in an argument, you get into an argument and you've got the emotions flowing. And then after the argument, you're like, oh, I should have said this, or I should have said that, or I should have— it's because the emotions make you dumb.
And like when you're in your business and you're emotional and you're like in it, like you're, you're, you're in the, you're frustrated because this truck won't fire up. Your, your, your emotional intelligence is down. Your intelligence is down. You're missing things. When you calm down and you're not emotional, you can see clearly when you come in not being him. Yeah. And I just said, "Fick off, bitch."
Not emotional. "Fick off and just hook to the PCM to get cranks." Whatever. You know what I'm saying? Yep. So I misspoke there a minute ago, but my point is you're 100% right. It's like you get so close to the problem, you can't see. It's like getting close to this microphone. You know, it's just like you can't see. And, you know, I think the everyday grind wears people down and you gotta realize there's a lot more going on nowadays.
You know, guys are worried about, like, one of the things I was talking to a guy about, I go, "Why are you worried about parts markup?" He goes, well, what if they go on Amazon and look up the part? I go, are you buying the part from Amazon? He goes, no. I go, it's a different part. I go, do you realize there's different brands of white paint?
White paint is not white paint. If I go to Walmart and buy white paint, is this the same paint I buy from— white paint I buy from Sherwin-Williams? No. There's a quality difference. Yep. I said, not to mention there's a warranty. You're marking up that part so when it breaks or if it breaks, you could get the vehicle towed back. You could repair it.
Like, There's a lot built into our price, our insurance, our— there's a lot of things built in. There has to be value. And this is where the professional buyer— look for the professional buyer and blow off the knuckleheads. That's what Mike Lee used to say at Management Success. Look for the professional customers, blow off the knuckleheads. And the knuckleheads are usually the guys that don't know their numbers.
They're completely 100% broke in these trucking companies. They have no money. Their truck's a piece of shit. And the way I look at it is a truck is a savings account. You buy a truck brand new, the savings account's full. If you keep replenishing that savings account, guess what? It stays full, right? Or it stays up there. But what happens if you take your bank account, your savings account, and you take money out of it for 5 years?
Say there's $100,000, you take every day, you take money out. After 5 years, what happens? It's gone. It's gone. It's no different than a vehicle. You have to maintain them. But the problem is, if you're running a trucking company and you have the white Navigator and you have— or you have the Jaguar and you have this, you have that, Your truck's rolling around on 6 bald tires and no DOT because you take every month a dollar out of your company because you don't even know how much you're supposed to be charging in your company 'cause you don't know your numbers.
I don't know how many different ways I could say this. I'm choosing, you know, and it's no different than the shop life. It's no different, or owning a shop is no different than owning a refrigerator repair shop, a TV repair shop, which have gone by the wayside. Now they just buy a new TV. TV repair shops. Yeah, no, we had a TV go out a few years ago and we called up Best Buy to see if they'd fix it.
Yeah. The Geek Squad or whatever, and the guy was like, you know what, it's, it's cheaper to buy a new TV these days than to even come and fix it. Like, okay, right? So, you know, in closing, my thought with these guys, with you guys, is, um, if you don't know your numbers, get a competent CPA to help you learn them, or have a meeting with them and say, hey, here's my numbers, let's— how am I doing?
Let's break this down to see where I'm at. You know, a good CPA can say, okay, your cost of goods sold your profit, your gross profit's too low. And this is why you need to raise it up so they can do a calculation, say, hey, your labor rate needs to be this. Now, in closing, guys, you heard me say this probably one time that I called around and checked labor rates in a guy's neighborhood.
And that was TJ because he just not believe that we need to raise his labor rate, right? Yep. Your overhead dictates your labor rate, guys. Hear me here. So if everybody in your town is $110 an hour and you go to a CPA and you figure out your overhead and stuff like that, and she says you need to be at $130 an hour, you better figure out how to shrink your overhead or charge $130 or charge $130 an hour to frickin' do it.
If not, you can't even sustain being in business, you know? And that's, that's, that's kind of the nuts and bolts of it, you know, as far as that goes. So did I say fuck a lot less? Uh, it was a lot less, but it was good. I love it. I love the passion. I, I know this probably leads into another episode. I don't think you can answer this this as you're, as you're ending the episode, but I'm glad you ended it this way because it's been on my mind through this conversation because you've referred back a couple times, get a competent CPA, get a good CPA.
Um, but I know you've, you've went through the experience of having a CPA that, you know, burn you. We've shared that story. Um, and it seems like most of the consulting clients you have, when you start talking to their CPAs, you're finding out they're not competent. And this, again, this is probably leading into another episode, but What would be your advice and how do people find a competent CPA?
You know, I would have to say, you know, a lot of times you could look at the other shops in the area, the really good shops and say, hey, who's your CPA? 'Cause you know, you want a guy that does shops. Yeah. So he already knows the business, right? Like my accounting firm, they are like a service business type orientated accounting firm.
So, and I know I had talked to the Macko Man a while ago about, you know, what kind of CPA you saw. We all, the toolmen, use the same CPA. Kind of makes sense, right? Makes sense. You don't go to a fucking guy that, you know, sells airplanes or CPA does airplanes, you know, and then, you know, here's my repair, diesel repair shop.
Yep. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, he's trying to figure out your individual business. Right, so, you know, I think experience is a good thing with a CPA for sure. And then, What I realized with these CPAs, they're almost like marketing people, you wanna know the truth. Not all of them, but some of these guys I talk to, they do the very bare minimum and send a bill.
And the bill they send, you're like, "Okay, what the hell are you doing with that little amount of money?" Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? And then, you know, yesterday, you know, like I was talking to one and it's just like, "Oh, QuickBooks is horrible," and stuff like that. And I'm like, "No, is it a training issue?" Then they get all butthurt.
If this is the way it's going to go, you know, and I wasn't doing that, but like I talked to my CPA, I said, how's QuickBooks? She says, great for small business. She's like, it's great for guys that want to learn their numbers and stuff like that. Okay. But I will tell you this, Jason, a lot of these business owners are fucking lazy.
Yeah. And they're like, oh, I'm so busy. I don't have time to do anything. You're so busy because you run around, you micromanage every fucking aspect of your business. I got one right now that's a micromanager. He set up shit systems. And he runs around, he has to be involved in every fucking decision in his shop. And not to mention he's got like 4 people supporting him and he's still so busy they can't handle it at all.
But they're doing the same amount of vehicles through there that we are. Wow. And I have 2 other clients that have to do more vehicles a month than them. But this guy is like, oh, we're so busy, we can't do anything. I just can't. I need more time in the day. It's like, no, you need to get some organization and break your old habits.
But until you decide to break your own habits, None of this is going to change. I'm not your fucking daddy. I'm not going to sit there and argue with you. If you call me, you pay me, I'll answer your questions. Yeah, but I can't fucking force you. It's not like I want to hold you down. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.
That's— I would have to say that's the most frustrating thing about being a consultant. These fucking guys have an excuse for everything. Yeah. And they're like, I'll call you, then they don't call. Or you talk to them, they do this, you know. Jesus Christ, it's just like I feel like their daddy. You know, and I got rid of one, you know, I just basically broke it off amicably because he just wouldn't listen.
I had everything ready to go. They just won't listen. Okay, if you hired me to do a job, I'm not going to keep taking your money. I even said I'll give you your money back if that's a big deal, because I'm not going to ever be blamed for fucking somebody. But if I'm giving you advice and you're paying, you're not doing it, I do the work, you owe me.
What you do with the systems I set up after I set them up and tell you how to do it, it's on you. Yep. Yep. You know, you said the same thing. You get tired of chasing these people. Ah, no. Well, because like at the end of the day, if you work with people, if they, when they're paying you and they're doing the things, like it feels good because they're growing their business and you've talked about like changing people's lives.
Um, but then they go out and they talk, tell other people about you, you know, versus, or you get testimonials or all those kinds of things that grow more business versus like people going out and saying like, oh, I that was a scam, or because it's never their responsibility, it's never their fault. They've always painted like, oh, I paid this guy and that was, that was a mistake, or whatever, you know.
How can I have 5 shops that are absolutely kicking ass, they're completely changed their whole everything that was going on in their shop, and you got the 6th one looking at going, yeah, this fucking system doesn't work? Yep. It's his limitation. It's his limitation. What I did to one of my guys yesterday was being a bitch, uh, I said, you know, I said, you want to know who the problem in your life is?
And he's like, who? And I did this to him. I turned on my camera and I said, you're the problem in your fucking life until you decide to change it. That's the greatest. I'm going to start doing that to people. You know what the problem is, right? That's amazing. But it's true. It's true. Like, a lot of these guys will not take responsibility.
I talked about that last week's episode, which Holy shit, that thing was downloaded a lot. Yeah. Okay, dude, we're catching fire on, uh, Apple. Yeah, amazing. For a lot of people that freaking hate me on my comments, boy, there's sure a lot of people that love me apparently. Yeah. What I think it is, I'm, I talk real and I, and I swear and I talk to— I'm talking to my group of people, you know.
I'm offensive to some people, I'm sure of it. I don't— not my people. Yep, right? Yeah, you know. So I think we could probably, you know, look do an episode on CPAs. We should have Maria back, say, hey, you want to maybe do a thing? If she's got time, she's really busy. But like, hey, do you want to do an episode? What do we look for in a CPA?
Let's talk about this. Let's break this all down. And she knows our business really well. Yeah, she knows all of our businesses. You know, the only one I don't know, she was really surprised. I'm like, oh, by the way, I started a new business, this LLC, and Repair Shop Reckoning. And look, she's like, Jesus. She's like, when do you sleep? She's like, it's already making money.
I'm like, yeah, what do you think, I'm going to open up as a hobby? But you know, it's really interesting though. I would say that TikTok money has taken off again. It's taken off again. Yeah. There's consistency. I, you know, getting 2 posts out a day, I think helps out. But I also think that the content that you're putting out, you're talking really passionately.
There's some really, really good actionable stuff. It's dumbasses that are like, I wouldn't pay you to consult taking a shit. Then continue running your life into the ground. You know, it doesn't— who gives a fuck? Like, well, that's why I always tell Lincoln, I said, you know, these people give you a hard time, go look at your bank account. Yeah. And did it change?
No. So they don't fucking matter. They're irrelevant. And I had to get past that early on, you know? Yeah. You know, I look at what I do and what I have, and then I look at other people looking at me going, yeah, you're doing this wrong, you're doing that wrong. Well, wait a second, you live with your fucking mom and dad still.
Exactly. How do you sleep at night? Next to my hot wife. Like, I don't rip people off, but like, it's just, it's amazing. The people, like, the guy calls me a kibo or warrior because I challenged him. People are, feel like conflict is bad, and conflict is not bad. Like, how do you change and grow unless there's conflict? If you, you get what you have in life based off of your beliefs that you have, and if nobody comes and challenges you on your beliefs, then you just continue living life the way that you are.
Isn't it pretty interesting that, um, social media— social media is actually training people that they can't say stuff? Like, us as influencers, YouTube is really bad. They check every fucking— you sent me those 3 videos that I had. I'm like, what? Yeah, they basically— they freaking— oh, this video is okay. This— like, if you say anything, argue back with anybody, they freaking get on you.
Oh yeah, it's like, wait a second, He can call me all these names and I said something back and all of a sudden I'm a problem. Isn't that crazy? It's crazy. Yeah, TikTok and YouTube are bad. Facebook's lightened up a lot. Yeah, Facebook has lightened up a lot, but you're right, TikTok, you can't— if people are calling you names, you can't say anything back or they'll tear it down or they'll take it down.
It's like, whatever, we live in a world of bitches. There's stuff— there's so many times I'm gonna put a description on the post and I'm like, you said something, keyword that's like fuck or something like that. I'm like, I can't put that in the title, they'll ban it, you know? Like, there's like such a good Yeah, but it's pretty interesting. Do you ever see these TikTok videos now?
These guys are screaming, fuck this, fuck that, motherfucker. Yeah, they're okay. It seems there's shit you see on TikTok sometimes, like, how did this get out there? But then our shit is pulled off. Isn't it crazy? Like, you see the sex scenes, and I'm not even like— I'm not even making this up. There's like a girl bent over and a guy's behind her.
You could totally tell what he's doing to her. Yeah, grunt. Everybody's grunting and everything, and TikTok's okay with that. But you say fuck and they take it down. Or two monkeys fucking, you're like, why do I need to see this? They're like, like, oh, it's okay. It's like— and I'm not even like— I've seen all this shit, like these sex scenes and movies, and I'm like, yeah, you're right.
And I say fuck, and they're like, uh, what is wrong with you? I just don't get it. I don't get it. I think they honestly— not to go crazy— I think they're just conditioning everybody to act a certain way, be soft. Yeah, bitch made is what they call it. We should probably get Not Bitch Made shirts for these freaking— oh, the Not Bitch Made would be great.
Yeah, because, you know, I just Nobody in my circle that runs with me in any of my companies is a bitch. Bitches don't last. Crybabies don't last. As we could probably tell, I'm just like, yeah, we're not into that shit. You know what I mean? You want to— I just, I don't know. I guess we're men. Yeah, that's the thing. I know.
I see your kid on social media. He's a man. Like, he's not a bitch, you know? Like my wife told Lincoln a few— remember when Lincoln started out, the guys were giving him a hard time? Yeah. She said, you know what? You're being a little bitch. Go deal with it. It. Like, seriously, like, that's the way we raise our kids. But they have to learn to deal with adversity.
You have to. Everybody's not going to get along with you. Well, in— to go, you like— you talked about the third generation as being the failure. It's because, like, usually the first generation, the dad starts the company, the son sees the dad grinding, he comes along, he's usually a little bit smarter, but he's used to working in the company from a young age.
And then he's a little bit smarter with business, and they paid— put a little bit of money into his education or whatever. And then he takes the business to the next level, and then he doesn't want his kid to work like he did and doesn't want to, you know, want us— wants to give his kid things that he didn't have. And like, because he was working at 13 and stuff like that.
And so then he spoils the shit out of his kids, gives them all the things, and then has nobody to pass the business down to, or pass the business to a third generation that doesn't have any discipline because they were just given everything. And it's all based on how the parents are parenting. Absolutely. And again, like, it's like the— if in your generation how you parented Lincoln and where Lincoln is at, that's like, that wouldn't happen.
It's just all depending on how you, how you raise your kids. Yeah, it's pretty interesting because last night, you know, um, Lincoln messaged me like 9:20. He says, the pool's still open? Like, no, I closed it. He's like, well, I'm coming home to go swim. And I'm like, okay. He got off work at 4 o'clock and he went and did 3 vehicles, him and Mia did.
And he was getting— he got home like by about 10 o'clock. He called me, he got home at 10 o'clock. And he— I looked at him this morning like, man, you look tired. He's like, fuck yeah, I'm tired. I did 3 cars last night. But you know, he went and worked basically a double. Yeah. How many kids at that age— he's going to be 20 here June 20th— would have fricking worked that much?
They won't. They don't think they even have to. They— it's like they're shocked that you would actually ask them to work an hour overtime. What? Like, we got done when I was growing up. I grew up on a farm. We got done when the work got done. We didn't get done at 5 o'clock. We hung up our gloves. It was like, when the work is done, you're done and you just get used to it.
Okay. But you're 100% right. Well, I don't want my kid to have to go through that, you know? Oh, this business is so bad. This is horrible. Yeah. This business has its trials. It's— but it's a lot easier when you're making money. Okay. And Lincoln, he's in the business now. Mm-hmm. For love it or hate it, he's in the business. He wanted to, and I'm not gonna lie to you, and I told you, I've said this before, I was a little bit apprehensive about bringing him in.
But he's like, Dad, I wanna be like you. I don't wanna go out there and fix cars, but I could definitely do the business part of it. Will you teach me how to do that? Absolutely. You know, so he's doing good at it. Yeah. If anything, he's learned how to do invoices and sell stuff even better than he did. So, which is huge.
Which is huge. You know, he could, you know, there, you know, I don't, He can make his own way in the world. But I know one thing, whatever he does, he'll do great 'cause he works his ass off. He doesn't go in at 10%. It comes down, I think I had this on one of the posts the other day, but doing what others won't now so you can do what others can't later.
And I know you've talked about like he's 19. Yeah. 19, he can buy a house, he can do whatever he wants. Yeah. And you know, I would have to say like in our taekwondo school, we had a thing, everybody wants to be a beast till they see what beasts have to do. Yep. Everybody wants to be a Viking to see what Vikings have to do.
Like, everyone wants to be a business owner until they have to see what business owners do. But the problem is they don't see where the iceberg is just poking out of the water. They don't see all the stuff below. You ever see that picture? Yeah. And if you listen to last week's podcast, when I talk about this, like, you listen to that podcast, me and Marilyn were listening to it.
I made one mistake. She got a Christmas bonus. My mom and dad didn't loan me the money. She corrected me when She listened to the podcast, whatever. It's still— she's like, wait a minute. Yeah. She's like, I got a Christmas bonus that year. I'm like, oh, shit. Yeah, maybe you did. I don't remember that. I thought my mom and dad gave us some money.
But you sit there and you listen to that story. It's like, holy shit. Because sometimes you have to say it as I'm saying it. Yeah, the emotion's not there. But when you start listening to yourself tell the story, you start taking yourself to way back land. Yeah. You start thinking about the trials and the tribulations you went through. You're like, holy shit.
But what happened? I came out on the other end. That doesn't happen with everybody because a lot of people give up. I've never given up. Difference. That's the difference. So everybody, thanks for watching. Hope you enjoyed the episode.
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215 - Ask Me Anything: Car Count vs. Profit - Why More Cars Doesn't Always Mean More Profit
215 - Ask Me Anything: Car Count vs. Profit - Why More Cars Doesn't Always Mean More Profit August 5, 2026 - 00:53:54 Show Summary: Higher car count does not always create higher profit. Excess volume can lower repair order averages and increase mistakes while exhausting the team. Strong financial data helps owners find the right workload for their business model. Shops should improve margins and workflow before investing in more marketing or staff. Host(s): Lucas Underwood, Shop Owner of L&N Performance Auto Repair and Changing the Industry Podcast Cecil Bullard, Founder of The Institute Show Highlights: [00:01:00] – Higher repair orders can create less stress and a better client experience. [00:04:00] – Strong sales mean little when the business still loses money. [00:09:00] – Last minute work can disrupt promises and increase costly mistakes. [00:15:00] – Excess car count often lowers sales and employee satisfaction. [00:18:00] – Every shop must find the workload that supports its model. [00:20:00] – Clean financial data helps owners make sound business decisions. [00:22:00] – Fix weak margins before spending money to attract more clients. [00:28:00] – A thoughtful response can protect workflow without rejecting the customer. [00:42:00] – Adding technicians without strong processes can create greater chaos. [00:49:00] – Clear goals and accountability help employees understand how to succeed. In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode. 👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://youtu.be/7M70n_DfTDg Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this! Links & Resources: Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com. Episode Transcript: Ask Me Anything Car Count vs. Profit - Why More Cars Doesn't Always Mean More Profit Lucas Underwood: What is up, everybody? Hey, y'all. It's Lucas Underwood from the Changing the Industry podcast and L&M Performance here in Blowing Rock, North Carolina. I am joined today by the one, the only, Mr. Cecil Bullard. We're gonna be talking about car count versus profit. Cecil, how are you today, buddy? Cecil Bullard: I'm doing fantastic as usual, Lucas. Lucas Underwood: Very good. Very good. So Cecil, one of the, one of the things I'll never forget, I taught a class at a industry event one time, and I had been in another class where the person was talking about do whatever it takes to get them in the door, and they'd been in a shop, and they were in their own shop, and the, the advisor had turned down a car at 4:00 in the afternoon that came in for a coupon oil change and wanted to wait. And so she chased the person back out into the parking lot and said, "No, no, no, no, no, we'll get you in. We'll make it work. I'm gonna pull a technician off something else. I'm gonna put them on this," and fired an advisor over it. And I've, I'd been in that class, and I'm talking about that in this training, and that person was sitting in the back of the class and I didn't see Cecil Bullard: him. Yeah. Lucas Underwood: And, and the thing that I said about it was this, is I said, "Listen, one of the most impactful things that I've ever experienced was being on the other side of an experience like that as an advisor, as a technician, what it feels like to feel that kind of pressure and why we shouldn't do that to our people And so I know there's been a massive movement, movement in the industry that's pushing people to say yes to every car that comes in the door. Doesn't matter what it is, just more cars, more cars, more cars, more cars. And I have had a very, very different experience than that. I am someone who has experienced a higher ARO with less stress and less pressure on our people, a better experience for the client, and I have found that that works best for me. And I'm not saying it works best for every organization, but I wanted to dig in with you and talk a little bit about this. Are you a say yes to every car man, or are you a balanced car count and balanced ARO man? Help me understand. Cecil Bullard: I think there's a, I think there's both, frankly. Um- Okay ... it, it has to make common sense, and I think you're really talking about two different things. So first of all- Yeah ... you know, before you fire someone for not doing what you want, does the person really understand what you want, right? Yeah. I mean, is that, is that well defined? Did the guy know that no matter what, I have to bring that car in? Uh, you know, so at 4:00, your service advisor made a decision. He'd made promises to other customers that they would have their cars. Yeah. And instead, now you're jumping in the middle of that and you're saying, "Well, I'm gonna fire this guy because he turned down a, a discount oil change or whatever." Yeah. Maybe a dis- and it- maybe a dis- you know, the guys, the discount oil change guys would say, "Well, yeah, but we do discount oil changes 'cause it leads to other sales." Lucas Underwood: Right. Cecil Bullard: But so that's one thing, you know? I- I- is the person who works at your counter... Um, I, I was in, uh, North Carolina. You saw me last week. I was on the road- Yeah ... for four da- after one of my meetings, and this happens a lot, one of the kids came up, young guy, uh, looked like he was about 14, but he was probably in his 20s, and he's like, "I'm a third generation. My dad runs the shop, but, but you know, my dad, he's getting in the middle of everything. It's really hard." And, and, uh, I, I always say you work for someone, they write you a check- You have to make a decision about what you're willing to put up with or not put up with, right? For sure. As an, as an employee, right? Lucas Underwood: Yep. Cecil Bullard: And so when you decide that I, I wanna work here and I wanna take the check, i- in a way you also decide I'm gonna follow the rules of the company, whatever those are. Yeah. Whether Cecil agrees with them or Lucas agrees with them or, or whatever. None of that really matters. What matters is that the person that's writing you a check is, is basically saying, "This is how I wanna do it," right? Lucas Underwood: Right. Cecil Bullard: And, you know, behind the scenes, we can have all the arguments we want. We can sit down and go, "I don't think that's correct." Um, a- a- but until the owner changes their mind about how we do this, then you gotta do- That's how business Lucas Underwood: runs ... Cecil Bullard: you gotta do how, what the owner wants. And so if that employee got terminated legitimately because- Yeah he knew better, then I'm, I'm fine with that. I, I, I think we have a craziness in our industry. I think we've all lost our minds because You know, you, you look at car count, car count. I mean, that's everybody's... That's like the mantra, right? More cars, more cars. I'll make money if I have more cars. Yeah. Well, that's, that's not necessarily true. It's never been true, frankly. Lucas Underwood: Right. Cecil Bullard: Right. You know, we have these shops. I mean, I can't tell you how many times, you know, having done seminars in the industry for well over 20 years and, and, and worked with automotive- thousands of automotive shops, we have these shops that come in, they're doing $2 million a year worth of business and losing money. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And, and so... And we also have shops, frankly, that are doing, you know, uh, 700,000 and losing money, and, and I'm pretty sure there's shops out there doing 10 million and losing money. Yeah. Uh, there's a balance and there's a way to run your business that is successful, right? Yep. Lucas Underwood: Absolutely. 100%. So- And, and look, h- I, I'm gonna, I'm gonna take a play directly from the Cecil Bullard playbook, okay? Hey- I'm gonna pull the play straight out of the playbook because you said something that I think we need to address right here and right now, okay? We Cecil Bullard: lost our minds in our industry? Lucas Underwood: Well, I mean, you would've had to have had one to have lost it, okay? You have to have something to lose it. So, I, the industry in that sense, we're in trouble. But, you know, th- this brings up something that's completely off-topic and, and I'm just gonna ask you what you think about it. There's all these technicians who are really upset right now, right? They're, they're very disgruntled, and it's primarily in the dealership space, right? You know I make these videos and they come out- Yeah every single Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday and Sunday. Yeah. And these videos come out, and all these dealership guys get so upset and so mad because they think that I'm talking about the dealership space. And I keep saying to them, like, you set the terms for what you're willing to accept in that, that job, in that role as an employee, and if you don't like the job, for God's sakes, leave. Cecil Bullard: Yeah, there's- And if Lucas Underwood: everybody leaves- Cecil Bullard: There's so many... There, I mean, you know, I, I think if you got a thousand shop owners in a room and you said, "How many of you need a good technician in your shop?" You know, 999 hands would go up, right? Yeah. Um, the, the... And, and yet we have these techs that are so miserable in their lives, in their sh- in the shop that they're at, and the, bec- the owner doesn't pay me, doesn't appreciate me, doesn't whatever, or she doesn't- Yeah or whatever. Okay, Lucas Underwood: cool. Why Cecil Bullard: are you there? Go somewhere else. Right. I mean, holy, holy crap. Um, yeah. I'm with you, man. I mean- I am like, uh... And I was t- I talk about the level of incompetence you're willing to accept. I, I do that- Yeah ... with owners because, you know, nobody's gonna be Cecil, right? Yeah. And by the way, in Cecil's head, in my brain, I think I do it right all the time. Right. Yeah. I mean, there's a piece of me that knows that's not true, right? But we're all a little- Sure ... insane in some ways, and we think that, you know, we, we know how to do things, and we think that our way is the right way. And, and, but as an owner, I'm gonna work twice as hard as pretty much anybody else, you know? Yeah. If it... I, I was talking to one of our, um, our marketing people. I, I used to print our workbooks, and I used to write our workbooks, and I used to edit our workbooks. Yeah. And, excuse me. I don't, I don't do that now, but I was, I was talking to her and I said, "You know, I used to be here at 2:00 in the morning-" Lucas Underwood: Yeah Cecil Bullard: printing workbooks because I had a class the next day that I needed the workbooks for- Uh ... and putting them together. 100%. And now I'm really glad I don't have to do that. Lucas Underwood: But- We, you know, we got a, we got a review the other day b- at the family business, and it said, "The owner was in there serving food." And I wanted to reply and say, "Yeah, because, like, I gotta do whatever I gotta do." 'Cause Cecil Bullard: everybody quit, and, and I'm in trouble, and I c- I'm the only one. Otherwise, I wouldn't be there. Lucas Underwood: Right. I've gotta do what I gotta do, right? Yeah. Like, this is how we're gonna survive. And, and I, uh... What is it that old Dutch always says? Like, "I'm paying for the blessings of tomorrow with the sacrifices of today." Of today. Whatever it takes. But Cecil Bullard: we a- you know, a- and so you, you create the level of incompetence. And I would say from an owner's point or a manager's point, you say, "Okay, in that position, I'm willing to accept 3% warranty," right? Yeah. So I've got a tech, I'm willing to accept 35 hours a week as a, okay, that's, like, you, you, you hit 35, you're, you're still in my good graces. You- Lucas Underwood: Right ... Cecil Bullard: you only have 3% warranty, you're still in my good graces. But, but also employees have to do the same thing. I mean, you have to decide, what am I willing to put up with? Am I willing to put up with- Yeah ... crappy pay? Well, if you do, and you take the check, and you keep taking the check- Lucas Underwood: Ain't Cecil Bullard: nothing gonna change then shut up. Right? Right. I mean, stop bitching about it. And we're, we're a, an interesting industry. Like you said, maybe we never had a mind, but- Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: you know, we, we, we constantly eat our tails, you know? Yeah. We constantly bitch and bitch and bitch, and, and we don't W- I don't even think we fully understand. So, you know, I'm pretty sure if, um, if, uh, uh, Aaron Stokes was still alive and, and we had Aaron on this, Aaron would be saying, "Yeah, you say yes, and you say yes because of this, this, and this," right? Yeah. Because that was w- that's one of their philosophies, was that yes philosophy. And on the same time, I would be saying Yeah, but sometimes you gotta say no. Yeah. Because you've already made promises to other customers because you're pulling a guy off of a $5,000 job that he could finish up- Lucas Underwood: For a $29 Cecil Bullard: oil change ... and you're gonna have him do a, an oil change where you're gonna lose $35. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And then he's gotta come back to the $5,000 job, and he's gotta get his head back in the game. So now you've increased the odds of, of mistakes happening, comebacks, et cetera. And so I think there's a point where you say to the customer, "Look, you know, we, we would love to do that oil change for you, absolutely. Only I can't do it tonight, right now, because my techs are all tied up on other jobs, and we've made promises to customers." Absolutely. "And I'm pretty sure if you were one of those customers who I made a promise to, you would not want me pulling the tech off of your car to do someone else's- To, to do that ... service or whatever it is, right?" I, I think- And it's not even about a $29 oil change. If it was a $300 oil change, I still wouldn't pull my guy off of a $5,000 job- Yeah at 4:00 to do that oil change. Lucas Underwood: I, I think it's easy, right? Like, so, so my vision of leadership is, is my job is to create a awesome environment for my internal customers, my employees. Right. And, and currently I'm not in the shop that much, so it is my managers' job to create an amazing experience for them, and then they in turn create an amazing experience. The desired outcome is a safely and properly repaired automobile for our consumer that is safe and reliable for them and their families. Or that, that's what we're trying to accomplish, and we have the guardrails which say, "Here is the, the metrics of profitability that we expect, and so you guys stay within these guardrails. Here's where you're going. This is the roadmap. This is what we want." You saw the roadmap. Well- I've, I've got it on the whiteboard, right? Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And so- And you're also not, you're not setting yourself up for success here, right? I'm, I'm bringing a, a $29 oil change. So I'm working with, uh, big old tire guys, uh, not, not the big company, but a guy who owns three locations. Yeah. And we're doing free tire rotations and free brake inspections. Yeah. We're doing hundreds of them. You know what we're selling? Probably Lucas Underwood: nothing. Nothing, Cecil Bullard: right? Lucas Underwood: Right. Cecil Bullard: Because we're so busy doing the tire rotations and brake inspections, we forget to look at the car. We don't have time to get to the Lucas Underwood: actual work Cecil Bullard: that they could approve. We, we forget to estimate the work and, and we don't have time to have a conversation with the customer. Yeah. And so I'm, I'm literally going... I said, "Why, why do you guys do free brake, uh, you know, inspections, free tire rotations?" Yeah. He said, "So we can look at the car." Well, you forgot that- Does it matter if you're not getting the end of it? somewhere along the... Yeah. So now I'm gonna bring this, this oil change in, and we'll get to that question in just a second, but I, I just have to make the point. I'm gonna bring this guy in at 4:00. It's a waiter, you know? Yeah. Uh, we're gonna service the car, and if I have a good technician do a good inspection, we're 35, 45, 50 minutes in. So now we're pushing 5:00 Then we will find stuff on this car that needs to be talked about. Customer may not buy it, but it needs to be talked about. The whole reason I'm doing the cheap oil change is to get the guy in so I can look at the car and try to sell him the things that he really needs, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Except now it's close to 5:00. Is that customer gonna sit for another 15, 20 minutes while- Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: my service advisor estimates the work, and then is he gonna sit for another 15 or 20 minutes with my service advisor after that to discuss what he needs- In- ... so that he can make a good decision? Lucas Underwood: In this instance, the, the, their theory was is like just, just find one thing wrong with the car that will make them leave it, and then do an inspection and provide the inspection later. I didn't feel like that was very kosher. Cecil Bullard: It's not my, it's not the way that I would- Lucas Underwood: No, I didn't feel like Cecil Bullard: it ... I would approach it. And it's certainly, it's certainly not the way that I would teach. I don't wanna have three phone calls with you, right? Yeah. Or three meetings. I don't wanna find one thing and say, "Oh my God, your, y- you know, your oil leak is coming out of the, the whatever timing cover so badly, we've gotta do your timing cover, and it's gonna cost X, Y, Z." And you go, "Okay, you know, I've seen the leaks. Do it." Yeah. And then you leave And then I go, "Oh, and now we've had time to check the car over, so here's another $5,000 worth of crap." Right. I don't wanna have that. I wanna have one conversation. I don't wanna have three or two, right? Right. I may have two because when we get in the middle of stuff, uh- Yeah we may find something- My vein's gonna have to- ... that are related that, that we can't see at that point in time with a basic inspection. But I certainly don't wanna have three conversations. And- Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: and I think you're, um... Everything is i- with a client is about how does that client feel about us, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And that experience with us. And, and so by telling him yes, I made him feel good, okay? So yeah. Tell him, any, anytime you tell someone, "No, I, I really can't do that," if that's all you say, you're in trouble, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Or no. Uh, nobody wants to hear no, right? Yeah. "Oh, my gosh, I would love to do that for you right now, but unfortunately there's just not enough time, and if we did it right now, we wouldn't do you a justice. We wouldn't be able to-" Yeah "... inspect the car. We wouldn't be able to tell you about what's going on with the car. You would not have the information you need to make intelligent decisions, and my whole job is making sure that you have the information you need to make the right decisions about Lucas Underwood: your car." Is advising you, being your advocate. Cecil Bullard: That, that's what I do, right? Yeah. And so this, this yes mentality and this car count thing of just driving as many cars through. We... I watch... I'm a numbers guy. You, y- everyone in the industry kinda knows, you know? Cecil understands the numbers or thinks he does. And- Yeah and I watch shops drive car count, and as they drive car count, I watch sales go down. I watch- Yep ... average repair- Yes ... orders go down. I watch mistakes go up. Employee satisfaction Lucas Underwood: go down. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. The whole nine yards. Employees are, are running around- Yep ... like chickens with their head cut off. Yep. There's a lot more inefficiencies that, that happen in the business. Yeah. And so if you, if you run a shop and you really pay attention, you'll learn where your sweet spots are, right? Yeah. Where does the shop make m- the most money? Where does the shop create the most happy clients? Where does the shop create the best average repair order? You know? Yeah. Those things that matter to me. And then where does the shop create the most profit? Because y- I, I have to, I have to be profitable here i, in the short term, and frankly, in the long term. Yeah. Otherwise, I, I have to go work f- For somebody else, and I'm not employable Lucas Underwood: Right. I, I'm the same way, and I, I think it's important, right? O- one of the things that I'm bad for doing is painting with a broad brush. Yeah. If you own, own a tire store, right? And, and you can turn hundreds of tires a day, that, that's a different model than what we're discussing. We're not talking about a high volume just tire store or something like that. That's a very different model. But even then, these same practices work in that tire store the same way they work in, in a mechanical shop. Cecil Bullard: And- Most of, most of the tire guys that I know are- Mm-hmm ... probably doing 50% tires, 50% um- Mechanical ... at least. Yeah. I mean, I know there's some that are 70% tires, 30% service, but I don't know of- Yeah ... any tires, uh, other than maybe discount tires, that are only doing tires. Just tires. Yeah And not getting into any of the service at all. Um- Lucas Underwood: Well, you know, I, I thought, I was, I've talked with Mark Ponz a lot. Brilliant, brilliant businessman, right? And, and one of the things that I always learned from Mark was, was, "Hey, watch the way we do tire business," and then we kinda shift gears in the mechanical business. You have to. It runs a little bit differently, right? Cecil Bullard: It's a different business, right. Lucas Underwood: And so you've got your tire team that's out here just nailing the tires out, and that's what they do every single day. And, and I've, I've, because of ASEA, I've had some amazing opportunities to work with some of the best tire men in the entire country. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: And, and I always, I was the guy saying like, "You can't make it with tires." How do you make it? And then I meet Mark Ponz and I'm like, "Whoof. He did more than make it with tires." Cecil Bullard: Holy smokes, you can make a lot of money with tires. Yes. But- Lucas Underwood: Yes ... Cecil Bullard: it's a different margin, it's a different business. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. And it, it's ran differently. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: And so, you know, I found my sweet spot to be three cars a day per tech, somewhere between $900 and $1,100 on my ARO. That, that's my sweet spot. That's where we run. That's where things work. We get too much higher than that, we start getting into very complex jobs. And, and listen, I talk to a lot of shop owners, "I got a $3,000 ARO. That's too high." And they're like, "What are you talking about that's too high?" Well, Cecil Bullard: if, if you're a diesel shop, it's not. For sure. If you're a European shop, you're pushing the edge. But- For Lucas Underwood: sure ... Cecil Bullard: but if you're a general repair shop, it's, it's too high, right? Lucas Underwood: Exactly. It means you're Cecil Bullard: doing engines and transmissions all day. It also means you're doing a lot of heavy duty work. Engine repair. And if you're doing a lot of heavy duty work, the margins and the matrixes that- You currently would have in place normally that would be taught to you will never work for your business- Yeah to make the profit you need. Lucas Underwood: Exactly. Right. You're 100% right. You're 100% right. And, and I think that's why, you know, it's like when I talk to folks about coaching with the Institute, I'm always saying, "Listen, there is no cookie cutter model that fits every shop." Like, this is a- I think there, Cecil Bullard: I think there is, frankly. I mean, if you say, "I'm a tire store," there's a model that works best. Yeah. If you say, "I'm a- I don't Lucas Underwood: disagree ... Cecil Bullard: I'm a discount store-" I don't disagree with that ... there's, there's a model that works best. Yeah. But, you know, I was... A- and again, I, I have never run a discount store, so I've never done- Yeah ... a cheap oil change or anything cheap. Or frankly- Right ... I'm, I never, when I was running shops, I never was a discounter. So- Yeah ... I don't understand that model. And I know some guys, however, that run really discount. Yeah. I've known some guys in my life. And, and their model works for them, only their techs are usually, uh, pretty transient because- Yeah they're just- Discount model, that's it ... they're not paying them enough, and they're running too many cars through, and that's, their service advisors can be somewhat transient in that business, and their customers can be somewhat transient in that business. Yeah. So the other part of that is if I'm running a discount model, I have to keep really hounding- Yeah marketing. Tha- those are the guys that are also saying you need to send out 10,000 to 40,000 mailers every month so you can bring- Yeah ... these oil changes in, so you can do enough business to- Here- ... you know, to be profitable. Lucas Underwood: Here, here's my thing, though, okay? When, when we look at the numbers, right? When we look at the financials, because I talk to Eric Jordan all the time at Geisen. Cecil Bullard: Yeah, yeah. Lucas Underwood: And I'm like, "Dude, I... You know where I was at, I didn't have clean numbers." I, I ran through a, a spell where we didn't have good bookkeeping and, and our numbers were a mess. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: And it's impossible to run a business without good clean numbers, right? And so what I'm saying, though, Cecil, is that without good clean numbers, without good clean data, there is no model that's gonna work. And I think that when they have good numbers, that GP number that you have to hit every single month to pay the bill- Cecil Bullard: Yeah ... Lucas Underwood: what, what the shop down the street's charging- They don't, they don't- ... is irrelevant to you. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. They also- Lucas Underwood: What you have to make is what you have to make. Cecil Bullard: If you don't have clean numbers, you make mistakes. Yeah. And you make bad decisions. So, you know, imagine- I've made bad Lucas Underwood: decisions with clean numbers, Cecil. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Right, yeah. But, but, you know, imagine that we brought a new car in or a, you know- Yeah ... a four-year-old whatever, and we didn't have a scanner, and we couldn't get the data- Yeah ... out of the car, and so now what are we doing? Now, now it's the, you know, well, I, I, based on my experience, I think, or- Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: you know, my tech is saying, "Let's- Yeah ... place re- let's rep- replace these six parts. Maybe that's gonna solve the problem." Yeah. I, I don't wanna be that company. I wanna be the company that says, "I know exactly what's going on with your, with your business, and- Yeah these are the three or the five things that we can do that will really improve your business and- Yeah ... put more money in your bottom line, create more happy, happier employees, happier- uh, clients, et cetera. For sure. Um, we do have a question. Let's- Yeah. Kyle ... let's get to the question. 2020, Kyle. I know that this is supposed to be ask me questions, so, and I've al- I have kinda read the question, but I'll let you read it. I read it myself, so. Yeah. " Lucas Underwood: I'm a mobile programming and testing company netting 8% currently." Now, Kyle is a, a fairly new company, very proud of him, doing awesome things. "My GP's 55% per RO, but my car count is only about 10 per week, so two a day. Should my next step be more investment into marketing or jump into coaching to maximize what I currently have?" Cecil, what do you think? Cecil Bullard: Well, I would, I, I, I would lean on the coaching side, and here's why. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Y- Cecil Bullard: you're supposed to be making net 20, and your gross profit is off by, uh, what is that? 12, 14 points. Yeah. I mean, I need 62 to 64% GP. Lucas Underwood: Yep. Cecil Bullard: And I need to know where that's missing. For sure. And what I have to do to get that. So you can bring more cars in at this point, and you'll st- and, and if you maintain a, a net eight, you're just gonna... If you wanna make tw- you know, the 200 K you told- A higher Lucas Underwood: net eight. Cecil Bullard: I wanna make, I don't know, I wanna make $200,000. At 8%, $200,000 is an awful lot of cars to work on, an awful, awful lot of places to make mistakes, and a lo- awful lot of liability. Yeah. At 20%, you know, $200,000 is a lot less cars, it's a lot less liability, and a lot less places to make mistakes. I- So for me, I, I'm, I might do both. It, it would depend on, you know... I mean, 8%, if you're doing, you know, 10,000 a month, okay, I'm making 8%, that's, in my opinion, that ain't enough to survive. You know, if you're doing 100,000, you might do both. You might, you know, get coaching, improve your margins, figure out where your business is going wrong, and then while you're doing that, you might improve car count and put a few more, you know, butts in seats so that I can make 20% on more people instead of 8%. Lucas Underwood: So here, here's my perspective, okay? So, so thing number one for me here Is that you're exactly right, and my reasoning's a little bit different. I would want to fix my net and I would want to fix my gross profit- Gross Cecil Bullard: profit ... Lucas Underwood: first before I started stacking more clients in the door, because now I'm gonna have more attrition because I'm changing my model midstream as opposed to narrowing down and polishing my model right now and getting my model right before I start presenting it to more people, right? Well, then- So, so I can set the expectation early. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And if you, if you do that, you'll have happier clients that will continue- Yeah ... to use you and come back. And- Lucas Underwood: I Cecil Bullard: agree ... this is a mo- mobile programming guy, so his client is probably not, uh, like the end user. This m- he may be working with more shops. I mean, there's- Yep definitely more information I'd need in order to- For sure ... evaluate him. And, and he is- These are the five Lucas Underwood: things ... he's working with a lot of shops. Right. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And, Lucas Underwood: and I think he's doing some mobile diag too. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: But so here- But you're- ... here's the next question to that though, right? Okay. Because I think there's a lot of mobile diag guys out there, there's a lot of mobile techs out there, and, and that does lead us to that next question is, hey- Like I, I'm not... If I do a DVI, how am I gonna upsell something? Because I'm really just coming out to do the diag and program the vehicle. Cecil Bullard: Well, in, if I'm working with other shops, I'm not doing a DVI. We're, we, we are just there to fill a, a place. That's why- Yeah ... I never liked, like, uh, being the alignment guy for the 10 shops around me. Um- Yeah ... because when the car comes in, I see things that- Lucas Underwood: Wasted Cecil Bullard: opportunities ... that the customer should be talking. We, w- we need, I, I feel like- Yeah ... oh, my God, why aren't they telling the customer that, you know, your upper control arm bushings are falling out of the car, and- Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: you c- I can't even align it, right? It, I, uh, uh, but it, I have different roles in, in different places. And, and if I am coming out to do programming and I'm the, I'm at the end user, the, you know, the client who owns the car, and I do a DVI, I might have an opportunity to sell additional stuff. But do I have the tools with me? You know, do I have the parts there? You know, do I have the equipment? Can I do it wherever I'm at, or do I have a place where I can take it and do it? I mean, there's a lot of additional questions and information, you know, depending on the model that you wanna build, right? I- And- Lucas Underwood: Yeah. I- ... Cecil Bullard: I don't think you should run three different models. I think you need to find the model that's gonna work the best for you, and that's the model that you wanna run, and you wanna run it as, a- as, as well as it can be run. Right? Lucas Underwood: I, I don't know anything about the mobile business, and I'm not gonna pretend to. But I, I think if it were me, right, what I would be doing is I'd be working with professional shops, and I'd say, "Hey, what I'll do, you guys get the cars you need programmed lined up. You get everything you need. In other words, do you have multiple cars that are gonna need programming? Do you have things? Try and get those all scheduled on a day for me. I'll come out, and I'll get the repairs made if you need me to do repairs. Whatever. I'll get diags done. But get me a day's worth of work," right? Cecil Bullard: Yeah, yeah, yeah, because I can't be moving around. I'm losing- Exactly ... my time, and time has to be billable no matter what. So either I gotta- Exactly ... charge... If, if I'm, if I'm working with five shops in a day- And I'm traveling around I have to shop Lucas Underwood: to shop, I spend as much Cecil Bullard: time and gas money Lucas Underwood: moving Cecil Bullard: Am I charging enough? Yeah, do, am I charging enough to cover the vehicle, the, the expenses- Yeah ... the, the gas, the rent, the, uh, excuse me, the utilities, the payment, whatever, uh- Yeah you know, or... Utilities, holy smokes. You know, I bet I'm, I'm thinking one thing, and it c- what comes out of my mouth is something else sometimes. Um- Lucas Underwood: We're used to it, Stace, so it's fine. Cecil Bullard: Yeah, it's all right. Guy's losing his mind. Um- You Lucas Underwood: never had one ... Cecil Bullard: and never had one in the first place. Um, but am I charging enough? And- Yeah ... and by the way, if I'm going to one shop and I'm gonna be there all day, that cost, uh, can be less for that shop than if I'm going to five shops. If I'm going to five shops- Yeah ... I have to cover all the traveling time and all the expenses that go with it. I've gotta charge more, otherwise I only make 8% or I only make 3% or whatever. I don't make my 20%, and I need my 20%. Lucas Underwood: I, I, I think, you know, to summarize basically where we've gone with this is, is like, the, the base numbers, the 55 and the 8%, are not fixed by increasing car count. Mm-hmm. So we fix those numbers first. Cecil Bullard: Yep. Lucas Underwood: And then, like, we, we get some of that dialed in, and we get the model dialed in, we get the efficiency dialed in, and then we work on marketing to bring more in if we need it at that point. But that's, I, I, that's how I would take it. Yeah. Cecil Bullard: So imagine you were, say, building houses, and you weren't charging enough, plus you maybe weren't building the house in a correct manner. All right? Yeah. So, and I, I build more houses, I create more liability- Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: that la- later I may have to go back and fix, repair, whatever. Um, I think you always wanna fix the model first. And, and there- Sure ... is a point, you know, hey, I'm a guy. I, I wanna start a business. I don't know what I don't know. Uh, I'm gonna get in there, and I'm gonna work my butt off and, and all of that, but there's a point in that where you have to say to yourself, "I want this to run well- Yeah and I want this, you know, I want... And so I need to know what it really takes to run it well, because I don't wanna work, you know, 12 hours a day, uh, in order to make the money I need to take care of my family or to- Yeah ... you know, take..." So yeah, I, I mean- A- and that, back to the... Okay, so I hope we answered that well enough, Kyle- Yeah, I think so and thank you so much. Thank you so much for that, that question. Um, and, uh, you know, back to this yes mentality, I told you I'm, I'm of both worlds, so I don't wanna tell a customer no, no matter what. Yeah. I, I really don't. But sometimes I have to say, "Yes, but..." Right? Lucas Underwood: Right. " Cecil Bullard: Yeah, we'd absolutely love to take care of that for you. However," right, "this is the situation." Uh, I always try to, um, to create some, uh, empathy, uh- Yeah ... around what's, what's going on in my world. Yeah. And, and by the way, if I get a guy that comes in who's really pissed off because at 4:00 I can't stop everything and change his oil- This is Lucas Underwood: somebody I want in my shop. Cecil Bullard: Yeah, and is that the guy I wanna work with? Yeah. And the answer is no. N- for me, the answer is- Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: uh, uh, unequivocally no. Lucas Underwood: So, so many of these shop owners, okay, and, and I'm gonna be really blunt here, and I'm not talking about the Institute. You blunt? Wait a minute. Yeah, I know, right? I'm not talking about the Institute when I say what I'm gonna say, okay? Cecil Bullard: Okay. Lucas Underwood: But so many of these shop owners, they go to a class somewhere, and somebody gives them these ideas of what to do. Now, listen, I, I've been this guy. I've been disconnected from the front counter. I've been disconnected from the base, and I go to a class, and this person recommends... And, and I'm gonna tell you, why do you think coaches have got such a bad name? There's, there is a coach that, that if you go on TikTok and search his name, it's technicians cussing him. Like, every TikTok video is people just cussing this guy out, right? And it, it's, it's that they have become so disconnected from what it's like to do the job. Now listen- I think what happens is, is that owner has been struggling for a long time. I've told you about this in my personal life before, that I spent so many years fighting and just climbing and trying to get things right and dealing with the stress and the upset client and all the things, that the minute somebody was willing to walk in that front door and take that pressure off of me, I'm like, "Here you go. It's yours. Take it. Do whatever you want with it. I don't care." Right? Cecil Bullard: Like- Well, would you... I mean, if you're gonna listen to someone- Yeah ... give you advice, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Um, uh, you know, uh, am I going to do some research on that person or that company- Lucas Underwood: Absolutely ... Cecil Bullard: and, and find out- Lucas Underwood: Absolutely ... Cecil Bullard: you know, you know, what their clients are, are saying and, and, you know, where did that person get his education? You know- For sure ... what, what's the, where's the- Lucas Underwood: What's Cecil Bullard: their experience? Uh, as they said in What Are the Bona Fides, right? You know- Yeah ... um, uh, in, in whatever movie- Right ... I can't remember the title to, but, um, i- or are, are you just, uh... At one of our events, and again, I'm gonna be brutal but not name their name. Lucas Underwood: Right. Cecil Bullard: You know, last year, um, chose speakers based on the title of their thing. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And, and they got a- Never Lucas Underwood: actually inspected the class or anything. Cecil Bullard: They got a lot of complaints. Uh, uh- Yeah ... and I heard a lot of feedback from people saying, "Wow, I, you know, in 20 minutes I walked out of that class." Yeah. And, and so do you wanna ha- I, I'm not saying we don't wanna have new people in the industry, 'cause we do. We wanna bring new people in, but do you wanna have people that, that have no bona fides, no, no qualifications? Just, they're just basically- Well- The, the thing I hate about the internet is they're able to say, "I'm the expert on this," and all of a sudden- Exactly everybody believes they're the expert on this- 100%. Lucas Underwood: 100% ... Cecil Bullard: even though they don't have the experience. They don't- Well- ... have the, the basic knowledge to really- E- ... be the expert. Lucas Underwood: Here's my beef though, right, is like they, they can come in and say whatever they want and, and it's, it's like a lot of what's being taught in the industry right now has consequences that, that we're not paying for yet. And I believe there were a lot of things taught over the past however many years that we're paying for the consequences right now, right? Like, there's a lot of things that we're paying for that were done years ago, and this is just how the industry works, and now we're paying the price for it. We don't have any techs, and all of these problems and all this stuff's coming up, right? And so when I... I guess what I was saying about, like, they're teaching these things, but they've never been on that side of the counter. And so it's like the shop owner comes back and says, "Hey guys, we're gonna start doing this." Well, let me ask you, Mr. Shop Owner, how many years has it been since you've sat on that front counter? How many years has it been since you were the one getting the butt chewing because you did something that was shady or was... Right? Like, have you disconnected yourself from the, the experience? Have you disconnected yourself from the consumer, the advisor, the technician? So I'm gonna- Because many of the guys we teach- Cecil Bullard: Yeah Lucas Underwood: were technicians, they were advisors. And- Cecil Bullard: Yeah, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna kick you in the teeth here. Lucas Underwood: Okay. I like it. Do it. Cecil Bullard: Just because you sat on the front c- on the front counter- Lucas Underwood: Mm-hmm ... Cecil Bullard: doesn't mean that you learned anything. Lucas Underwood: Of course. Cecil Bullard: So, so I think, um, like having a technician who becomes a service advisor, I would rather have a service advisor who was never a technician. Yeah, I- And I know a lot of shop owners are gonna go, "Man, you're crazy, Cecil." But there's bad habits that you learn as a tech- Yes, absolutely ... that are great habits when you're a tech, but when you're a salesperson, service advisor- They're terrible ... they're not good habits, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And, and so that's one thing. One thing is, okay, so you did it for 20 years. So what, right? And, and I know, you know, that's some of my bona fides. I used... You know, I- Yeah ... I did this. This is... I've, I've, I've run business, been successful, et cetera. I, I believe I've learned a lot of things that, that maybe many shop owners don't really know and understand. Here's, here's the other part of this. There are things that need to be taught to a tech that a service advisor should not be taught. Yeah. There are things that a service advisor needs to know that a tech shouldn't know, and, and there are things that a manager needs to know that are different than a service advisor, and there are things that an owner needs to know that are a, a lot different, and not all of those will, you will learn by being on the counter or by running the business, right? For Lucas Underwood: sure. Cecil Bullard: And, and listen- We... I've got guys that has, have been doing this for 30 years. I see them all the time. They come up and they're like, "Yes, I've been, I've had a shop for 30 years" and, and their business is worth $150,000 all in. And they, and they have no money. Right? A- and but they've been working at this for 30 years. Lucas Underwood: We've always done it this way. Yeah. But, but here's my point, though, is, is where I'm going with this is a little bit different. Where I'm going with this is it's been so long since you've sat on that front counter, and your policies and procedures are causing problems for the front counter that you don't even see. Cecil Bullard: I, I cannot use my policies and procedures when I was running a shop 15 years ago for a shop today. Yeah. Exactly. Lucas Underwood: Um- Cecil Bullard: Exactly ... and, and we don't teach that, you know? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: It might be a good place for you to start, because you can see what a policy and procedure should, should look like. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: But to take my policy, even my sche- the way I scheduled- Lucas Underwood: Yeah, Cecil Bullard: completely different um, uh, today, I think it's a bit different, right? I, i- it has to be modified. But- And that, another thing you want your coach to be is somewhat flexible on certain things, because- Yeah ... if they're not, they're gonna teach you what they learned 25 years ago, right? And- Well, Lucas Underwood: I, I mean, I guess my point in that, though, is let, let's, let's go back to the example given, okay? Of, hey, we're gonna have this situation where we bring this car in, and they've got a coupon, so we just wanna get the car in to convert it into a car that we can turn into a higher ARO, right? Now, I've got an advisor who's at the end of the day. Yeah. They're trying to make all of their telephone calls, they're trying to update all of their clients, they're trying to get everything cleaned up. Cecil Bullard: Once finished the 15 tickets that are going on- Exactly ... they get the money in the bank, et cetera. Lucas Underwood: Trying to make sure- Right ... the shop looks good, trying to get everybody wound down. They're, they're in the end of the day. They're phasing it out. They're getting ready to bookend the day. Plan tomorrow, right? Cecil Bullard: Right. Lucas Underwood: And now I've got a technician who's in the middle of a job, he's got an hour left, and I'm going back and I'm saying, "Hey, I need you to stop what you're doing. I need you to inspect this car. I need you to do an oil change right now. I need you to pull this thing in right now." And plus you're asking the advisor to go to that client, write an estimate for something simple, something that needs to be dealt with right now. It's a big deal to get the car to stay, and now I'm arranging a ride for this person, right? So the- Now you wanna talk about disgruntled, think about how that disrupts every single person in the shop's day. I've disrupted a porter, I've disrupted an advisor, I've disrupted a client, I've disrupted a technician. Cecil Bullard: I've disrupted my profits. Yes. I've disrupted my, my workflow. Lucas Underwood: Absolutely. Cecil Bullard: You know, one of the biggest, one of the biggest expenses in the automotive industry, the biggest cost and, and where we're losing the most money is that we do not have good workflow. Yeah. So the productivity issue, and we have a... Because of that we have a lot of techs complaining 'cause they can't get paid. If they're on flat rate and we don't have productivity, and it is the fault of the business because of our flow, um, then they got a, they got a legitimate complaint, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And, and what we're doing, I have a class called Stack the Deck, and what we're doing is stacking the deck against us. Yeah. We're not stacking it in our favor, Lucas Underwood: right? Right. Cecil Bullard: And so we're doing... By, by bringing that car in at the, at the last minute, we're doing everyone a disservice. Everybody. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: The, the client, the car, the service advisor, the tech that's gonna have to be pulled off, and, and we're creating kind of hatt- havoc and, and bad attitudes. Lucas Underwood: Chaos. Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And, and if we create, you know, bad attitude and havoc in our, and chaos in our business, then what are our results gonna be? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Okay? Exactly. And you can beat guys only so long. You know, you, you can- Yeah ... be a forceful manager and, and use the whip or the, you know, the, the prod or whatever only so long when guys say, "Uh, no more of this." It is not a long-term strategy for running a good business that's gonna last long-term and be profitable long-term. It's just not a good strategy. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Yeah. I think you're exactly right, and, and I think that that's where it comes back to me that, that if I build a workflow That is prioritizing profit over the car count, right? Because I, I don't believe in the, the high car count numbers. I- now let me tell you something. I, I had an epiphany a few years back because I was in three bays. You've seen the shop. Cecil Bullard: Mm-hmm. Lucas Underwood: I was in three bays, and it didn't take a lot- With Cecil Bullard: no ceiling. I mean, nine feet- Yeah ... or eight and a half feet or whatever. Yep. Yeah. Lucas Underwood: It didn't take that much to fill that shop, and it didn't take that much to pay that shop's bills. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: And then you've seen the new shop, and I, I, I'm, I don't even have to tell you, it takes a lot to pay its bills, right? Cecil Bullard: Yes, sir. Lucas Underwood: And so I have a whole new appreciation for people who try and drive car count. Like I get it. I get it. Cecil Bullard: I had a... In the, in the class, I had a, a guy come up and he's like, "Hey, I'm just, I'm just me, and, uh, what should I do now?" And I'm like, "Well, first of all, I, I don't know enough information." Yeah. "But second of all, when it's just you in one bay, you're gonna have the least expense, but you're gonna make the most money." It's gonna be hard because, you know, you gotta be the service advisor. You gotta, you know, when you've gotta answer the phone- Yeah ... you have Lucas Underwood: to stop what you're doing- Maybe you can stack Cecil Bullard: that bank account full like that ... blah, blah, blah. But you, you can. Yeah. I also have to... Kent made a comment that, um, it requires you to hold the stick. Somebody has to hold the stick. Yeah. And my answer is, "It doesn't require me to hold the stick. It requires the stick to be held- Yeah ... and held by somebody that, that knows what, what they're holding and knows what they need to do, right?" Yeah. Flying a plane, I don't wanna put my, you know, uh, 13-year-old grandson flying a plane. He's no experience. I put the stick in his hand, we're probably in trouble. You know, I want, I want a pilot, I want Dutch at the- Lucas Underwood: Exactly ... Cecil Bullard: you know, behind the wheel, right? Lucas Underwood: Well, you know, it's funny you say that because I was getting ready to bring him up. I, I was talking to him years ago. I was really frustrated about the way the shop was going, and he said, "Son, let me tell you something" He said, "When I worked for the airline," he said, "it does not matter who flies that plane or who does what on that plane." He said, "Because I was the left seat captain, that was my job." He said, "I could let anybody I wanted fly the plane. For God's sakes, I could let a passenger fly it." Cecil Bullard: Yeah, but he- "But I Lucas Underwood: could give them- Cecil Bullard: But he's responsible ultimately for what happens on that plane ... Lucas Underwood: I could give them all the authority in the world- Yeah to fly the plane, but ultimately it was still my responsibility." Good luck. And I said, "What does that have to do with me?" He said, "You're letting a bunch of bimbos fly your plane." Yeah. Cecil Bullard: People who don't know. Lucas Underwood: Like- Cecil Bullard: That's like, that's like- You know? It's like- ... going to coaching and, and going to classes- Yeah with people who, who have a nice internet presence who don't really have the, the experience or the knowledge to really help you out. Lucas Underwood: Yeah, 100%. Cecil Bullard: You know? And, and, and- I, I see these, some of these new coaches come on and they say things and I'm like, "Well, that sounds really pretty, but-" Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: you know, it i- i- it's not meaningful or impactful. It just sounds pretty. Lucas Underwood: Right. Okay, we've got a question here. Um, Steve from Wasp Automotive: "My question is how do you decide when adding capacity, another tech, actually helps profit versus creating more chaos?" Been there, done that. It's all in the numbers. It's all in your financials. Ha- I, what do you say, Cecil? What Cecil Bullard: do you- I think, um, I think you look at your business and you say to yourself, uh, you know, like, "I've got three techs. I have one service advisor. I'm probably... My flow is now starting to get affected because one service advisor, three techs." Lucas Underwood: That's Cecil Bullard: for sure. Uh, and 11, 12 cars a day, maybe 15 if you're running a lower ARO model, and that service advisor can't talk to all those people, answer all those phones, deal with everything that's happening and make that happen. So you say to yourself- Yeah ... "Okay, um, I'm gonna add a fourth, uh, uh, tech," before you really have your service advisor stuff really set up. So, you know, I'm, if I'm adding a fourth tech, I'm, I'm certainly probably at that point adding a second service advisor. And if you're, if you're willing, if you have your systems and processes down and your shop is efficient, the, if you have a, a decent ARO, if you, if you know your inspection process and your sales process is good, then let's add a tech. But if you're, if you're adding a tech because you feel like we're, we're stacked too deep and I can't get the work out, then y- y- Yeah ... it's not the tech you need, it's the process you need. Lucas Underwood: So- Right? ... w- what I do in my shop, okay, let me give you a rundown of how I do my daily planning, my weekly planning. Yeah. Is I'm monitoring how much work we have in the shop at any given time. So I know how many hours and I know how many dollars I have in the shop, and I'm saying, "Okay, I know what my typical sales per build hour are, and does that line up with the financial model we've put in place for the shop?" And so if I'm consistently at that number, I can take my hours and I can say, my technicians should be able to turn eight hours a day. There's gonna be days they're a little bit less, there's gonna be days they're a little bit more, but if I have X number of hours and it gives me a runway, because I view this like my runway, right? Like, how far can I go? And I run this shop somewhere between five and seven days out, is, is typically where it falls, right? Yeah. I wanna have between new appointments coming in, right, because I know my average hours per repair order, new appointments coming in versus the work that I have here right now. How much work would that give me, right? And a lot of guys come back and say, "How could you judge what a new appointment's gonna be?" Because it's my average hours per repair order. That's what we always run. It doesn't go up and down hours. It goes up and down five, 10, 15 minutes. It goes up, down .1, .2. It's not a huge swing. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: And so now I'm looking at the shop and I'm saying, "Okay- If that is the case and I have this much work and I'm billing this much, is the work getting done? No, it's not. Okay, well now I have an efficiency problem in the shop. Cecil Bullard: Maybe. Maybe- Okay, the work... Go ahead. Maybe it's an efficiency problem in the shop. Maybe it's a, I have too many clients and I need another tech, right? So- Lucas Underwood: Well, I guess, I guess what I'm saying though is if, if I'm in that situation, right? So if I've got that number and my number is, is each tech should be able to do eight hours a day, and I am not moving that number through the shop, and I go and I look and I find out, hey, I got four hours per day per tech, that's an efficiency problem. And by the way, that's a- Adding another tech Cecil Bullard: will not fix that problem don't hire another tech. Yeah, because now you're gonna have- Unless you- Now you're gonna have five guys doing three hours- Doing four hours a day ... or whatever. So yeah. And, and all the marketing, all the money you've spent on that and everything else- Yep ... is just gonna go by the Lucas Underwood: wayside. 100%. So- But I'm gonna maximize what I have, I guess is my point. I'm, I'm, I, it, it's ran by the numbers. There's a formula. I Cecil Bullard: think, I think if you're smart, you're always maximizing what you have. And so- Yeah ... um, you know, you're, the question that I ask every day is, is why not, right? W- why- Yeah ... aren't we? Why, why, why isn't the institute growing faster? Why are we not, uh, signing up more people? Why are we, you know, whatever, whatever it is. Because the answer to that question is the answer I need to, in order to really move my head- Yeah ... right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Sure. And, and so if you're, if you're saying, you know, I've got, um, six hours of productivity out of my s- out of my techs- And now I'm gonna hire another tech because I have too many cars. Well, m- maybe your price isn't high enough to, you know- Yeah ... maybe your price needs to be a little higher. Uh, so th- that's a way that you might manage car count. So we're booked three weeks out. Well, booked three weeks out is, is not okay, and what, what often happens is I, I have customers come in today, and they were scheduled for whatever, and then we found $4,000 worth of stuff they need, and they wanna buy it- Get bumped I said, "I can't, I can't do it today." Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: So they get bumped a week and a half out, two weeks out. And then the other problem is if I'm, if I'm scheduling that way, and, and I have new people that are, that I'm... They don't know who I am. Yeah. So they're calling for a first time. I need to get those people in either today or tomorrow. Yeah. I cannot- If you wanna retain that ... schedule those people. Yeah. Otherwise, that money I spent is wasted money. Yeah. And, and so, you know, there, again, there's these balancing and tipping points in your business that if you really understand the business and you're watching the numbers as, as Ken says, you know, if you know where you're going and you're, you know, you got s- your hand on the stick, and you got the data that you need- Yeah then all of a sudden, I'm making better decisions, and so I know what to do when I need to do it. And then- For sure. Lucas Underwood: Absolutely ... I Cecil Bullard: think, I think everybody should have mentors or coaches. Uh, y- you know, mentors, uh, uh, many of... Some of those are paid because you, that's what you hired them for. Yeah. And they might be your coach, and some of those are not. I mean, you know, I'll, I'll call you occasionally for something and say, "Hey, Lucas, what do you think about this?" Because- For sure ... frankly, I look at you in s- some areas as that guy where I can call you and get some good information. Right. Um, and, a- a- I just think we have so many people in our industry that they just don't know enough about the business and how- Yeah the business runs to make the best decisions, and so they keep running into the wall. Lucas Underwood: They were really good at fixing cars, and they were really good at maybe selling service. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: But they weren't good at running the business that fixes cars and sells service. Cecil Bullard: Well, Lucas Underwood: how many- There's a d- there's a difference. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And then, you know, how, how about how do I manage these people? I mean, I can't tell you how many times I've heard, "Well, my guys won't do good inspections," or, "They won't take-" "... 20 pictures of the car," or whatever. Ah. And, and, and I'm, I'm like, part of me is, is flabbergasted, right? Yeah. Part of me is like, how, how do you have people that won't do what you need them to do, and you keep writing them a check every, every week- Yeah right, or every two weeks? And, and then part of me is, is angry, like- Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: are you, are you really that dumb that you, you can't figure this out, and, and manage people, and make sure that you're getting, you know, what you need out of your staff? And, and so I, the... I'm always two people in my head, you know? I'm just always. But they keep doing the same thing over and over. Yeah. And they keep thinking they're gonna get different results. Lucas Underwood: You know- Cecil Bullard: It's insanity ... Lucas Underwood: here, here's what stands out to me, because you know I've been working at the other end dealing with- Mm-hmm ... with much younger employees, right? Cecil Bullard: Yep. Lucas Underwood: And I had one a while back come up to me and said, "I really appreciate you holding me accountable." And I said, "What are you talking about?" And they said, "Nobody has ever said to me, 'Why didn't you accomplish this thing?'" And they just acted like I was gonna be upset or was gonna be mad if somebody came and said, "What about?" And they said, "The problem was is I never knew if I was winning or losing. And so I need somebody to tell me I'm doing good or I'm not doing good- Yeah so I understand where I need to go, but that's not happening anywhere else I've been." And see- Cecil Bullard: Well, it doesn't... In most places it does not happen, my friend. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And so- Lucas Underwood: Exactly ... Cecil Bullard: you know, we, we don't have goals. I'll, I'll go into a shop and say, "Well, what are your goals for your techs? How do they win," right? "Well, uh, they do a lot of work and they don't have any comebacks." Well, first of all, not having any comebacks is ridiculous because you can't work on cars without having a comeback. Lucas Underwood: You figure that Cecil Bullard: one out, buddy. Second of all, what's a lot? What's a lot of work, right? I mean- Yeah ... a lot of work is, is 10 hours a day. I mean- Yeah ... uh, people need... If you hold people accountable, if they understand, if you're fair, meaning- Yeah ... they know what their target is, they know what they have to do, and then you hold them accountable, they're very happy. They're happier than they can ever be. Yeah. It's the people that don't have any direction, that don't know if they're winning, you know, every two years, every three years they move to another shop hoping that they can find that thing that they don't have, and the thing that they don't have is goals, targets, accountability, and winning. I mean, those are the things you absolutely have to have to be a happy human being, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: If not, it wears at you and it wears at you until what you do is you go online and you just bitch, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And, and so we got a lot of online complaining going on. Lucas Underwood: Yep. Cecil Bullard: Um- Lucas Underwood: The, the quickest way to a depressing life is unmet expectations. Yeah. And the only human being capable of setting your expectations is you. Is Cecil Bullard: that right? Well, and that's the other thing I think we all... You know, I, I always say, um, managers need to manage, meaning- Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: you know, you... When I was a tech, I kept track of every hour I billed, okay? Now, the reason I was keeping track of every hour I billed was not because I d- I thought my company was gonna not pay me for it. The reason I kept track of every hour was because every day was a competition against yesterday. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: So if I did seven hours yesterday, today I wanna do eight. And, you know, I, I, I'm competing against myself. In, in a way, part of my life has been managing myself because if somebody else- Yeah ... doesn't create the expectations for me, I create the expectations. Lucas Underwood: Amen. Cecil Bullard: Because I need the- The dopamine or whatever that comes from being successful. Lucas Underwood: Amen, Cecil Bullard: buddy. Uh, if not, at the end of the day, you watch me. I'm sitting watching TV doing this because- That's it ... I wasn't successful today, right? I di- I didn't- Yeah ... make anything happen. Lucas Underwood: Kent says, "Complaining can make the problem feel bigger it is to the point it feels insurmountable." Um, I- Cecil Bullard: Yeah, it happens all, all, all the time in this, in this industry ... Lucas Underwood: somebody told me one time that human beings can be in love with their problems. They can make their problems their identity, and so I think that Cecil Bullard: that's- Well, think, think about this. As a technician, I'm a problem solver. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Right? And problems are brought to me all day long, but all of a sudden- Yeah I become a salesperson or I become a manager, sol- creating problems so that I have problems to solve, right? Lucas Underwood: Amen. Cecil Bullard: And, you know, don't get me wrong, you'll... A- as a salesperson you'll have plenty of problems to solve. As a manager you'll have ple- plenty of problems to solve, but we have a lot of people in, in the industry that are creating their own nightmares- Lucas Underwood: Yes Cecil Bullard: and then they're living in them, and then they're complaining about them. Yeah. And, and, and my mind is like, "Okay, fix it." Lucas Underwood: Right? Exactly. Exactly. Cecil Bullard: It might not be easy. It might not be quick, but fix it. Stop doing what you're doing today. Start learning how to do something just a little bit different and, and because you keep going the same way, you keep getting the same thing. Lucas Underwood: That's exactly right. If you continue to do the same thing and expect different results, that is the definition- Is Cecil Bullard: insanity ... of Lucas Underwood: insanity. Cecil Bullard: Yes, sir. Lucas Underwood: Cecil, thank you for being here today. Cecil Bullard: Yes, sir. Well, thank you. I love these things. And- Yes, sir ... uh, thank you for those of you that participated and, uh, and asked questions, and we'll be back again soon I'm sure. Lucas Underwood: That's it. Well, I guess another month and we'll be back Cecil Bullard: here. Another month, and we'll make your head Lucas Underwood: hurt one more time. Another AMA. Yeah. Waiting to hear y'all's questions. Cecil, see you next time, buddy. Cecil Bullard: Love you, brother. Lucas Underwood: Love you, brother.