What should I do if I suspect a part is faulty after installation?

If you suspect a part is faulty, double-check the installation and ensure it matches the specifications. If the issue persists, consider replacing the part with a different brand or contacting the supplier for a warranty claim.

How can I improve my diagnostic skills as a technician?

Improving diagnostic skills involves continuous learning, hands-on experience, and seeking mentorship from more experienced technicians. Utilizing resources like online courses and technical manuals can also be beneficial.

What are the benefits of having a mentor in the automotive industry?

A mentor can provide guidance, share valuable experiences, and help you navigate challenges in your career. They can also offer insights into best practices and help you develop your skills more effectively.

What is Effective Labor Rate (ELR)?

ELR is the actual amount charged to customers for labor divided by the total hours billed. It reflects how effectively a shop is charging for labor.

How can I improve my shop's ELR?

Start by tracking billable hours accurately and ensuring that all technician time is charged appropriately. Regular audits of repair orders can help identify gaps.

Why is ELR important for shop profitability?

A higher ELR means more revenue generated from labor, which can significantly impact overall profitability and help cover rising technician wages.

How many hours of training should technicians complete each year?

Technicians should aim for a minimum of 40 hours of training annually, but more is encouraged to stay updated with industry changes.

What is the benefit of a systematic approach to diagnostics?

A systematic approach helps technicians efficiently narrow down issues, reducing diagnostic time and improving accuracy in repairs.

How can shop owners support their technicians' education?

Shop owners can support education by providing time for training, attending classes with their technicians, and creating a culture that values continuous learning.

What is the difference between calibration and programming in ADAS?

Calibration refers to adjusting the system to ensure it functions correctly, while programming involves updating or installing software in the vehicle's modules.

Why is it important to follow OEM procedures for ADAS?

Following OEM procedures ensures that the vehicle's safety systems operate as intended, reducing the risk of accidents and legal issues.

How can shop owners effectively communicate the need for ADAS calibrations to customers?

Shop owners should explain the importance of calibrations for safety and reliability, using clear language and providing examples of potential risks if not performed.

What are the 5 C's of writing a repair order?

The 5 C's are: Complaint, Confirmation, Cause, Cure, and Confirmation of the Cure. Each step is essential for clear communication and effective repairs.

How can I improve communication between service advisors and technicians?

Encourage service advisors to ask detailed questions and document customer complaints thoroughly, ensuring technicians have all necessary information to diagnose and repair vehicles effectively.

Why is proper documentation important in a repair order?

Proper documentation serves as a legally binding record that protects the shop from liability and helps clarify the work done, which is crucial if issues arise later.

What are the key challenges service advisors face?

Service advisors often deal with difficult customer interactions and must effectively communicate technical issues in a way that customers can understand.

How can technicians improve their diagnostic skills?

Technicians should focus on mastering the fundamentals and seek training that addresses their specific weaknesses rather than just their interests.

Why is communication important in a shop environment?

Clear communication ensures that service advisors can accurately convey diagnostic information to customers, which helps in building trust and improving service outcomes.

What should I do if a customer wants to bypass safety systems?

It's important to explain the risks involved and that bypassing safety systems can lead to dangerous situations. Always prioritize safety and refuse to perform such modifications.

How can I effectively communicate repair costs to customers?

Be transparent about the diagnostic process and provide a detailed breakdown of costs. Customers appreciate understanding what they are paying for and why.

What is the best way to handle unexpected repairs during a job?

Always inform the customer immediately if additional repairs are needed, explaining the reasons and costs involved. This keeps them in the loop and maintains trust.

What should I consider when buying tools as a professional mechanic?

Invest in professional-grade tools that enhance your efficiency and effectiveness in the shop, rather than settling for consumer-grade options.

How can a shop owner improve technician retention?

Creating a supportive work culture where employees feel appreciated and valued can significantly enhance retention rates among technicians.

What is the importance of diagnostic training for technicians?

Diagnostic training is essential for technicians to develop a systematic approach to troubleshooting, which helps in accurately identifying and resolving vehicle issues.

← Diagnostics & Repair

Comebacks & Quality Control

Reducing comebacks and the cost of rework — quality-control processes, final inspections, and technician accountability that protect your margin and reputation.

14 episodes

The Jaded MechanicMay 12 · 2h 23m

Christopher Clingerman Compares Fleet Life to the Dealership

Like the show? Show your support by using our sponsors. Need to update your shop systems and software? Try Tekmetric HERELaunch your tool game to the next level with Launch Tech USA! HEREIn this episode, Jeff talks with Christopher Clingerman, a fleet mechanic out of Rochester, New York. Christopher shares how he went from working on tractor trailers to maintaining school buses, and what surprised him most about the switch from dealership life to fleet work. They get into the day-to-day challenges techs deal with, from bad parts and misdiagnosed vehicles to the importance of training and having a shop culture that actually supports its people.Timestamps:00:00 Working at Hyundai dealership11:46 Frustrations with car dealership service26:28 Routine vehicle inspections37:40 Using vegetable oil in hydraulics42:50 Modified trucks and safety issues56:41 Concerns with turbocharged engines01:09:59 Laid back work environment01:19:22 Training opportunities during work hours01:25:33 Changes in welding education01:37:39 Brian's electrical skills explained01:46:34 Working on vehicle repairs01:57:40 Using real tools to teach skills02:10:56 Comparing tire brands and costs02:18:54 Open door for venting support Follow/Subscribe to the show on social media! TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@jeffcompton7YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@TheJadedMechanicFacebook - https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100091347564232

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Remarkable Results RadioJuly 10 · 40 min

Maximizing Profit Through Effective Labor Rate Strategy [THA 493]

Thanks to our Partners, NAPA TRACS, Today's Class, KUKUI, and Pit Crew Loyalty Watch Full Video Episode *]:pointer-events-auto scroll-mt-[calc(var(--header-height)+min(200px,max(70px,20svh)))]" dir="auto" data-turn-id="request-WEB:8e59eec7-a235-4fa3-a072-956fea3fe478-7" data-testid="conversation-turn-4" data-scroll-anchor="false" data-turn="assistant"> *]:pointer-events-auto scroll-mt-[calc(var(--header-height)+min(200px,max(70px,20svh)))]" dir="auto" data-turn-id="request-WEB:49a777bf-d263-4496-bf0b-2eb3a46ac96a-11" data-testid="conversation-turn-24" data-scroll-anchor="false" data-turn="assistant"> Your posted labor rate may not be the labor rate you're actually collecting, and that gap could be costing your shop thousands of dollars every month. In this episode, Carm Capriotto is joined by Andy Adams, a shop owner and business coach, and Rob Sperring, a service manager, to explain why the Effective Labor Rate (ELR) is one of the most overlooked yet impactful performance metrics in the auto repair industry. They break down why ELR falls short, how it affects profitability, and the practical steps every shop owner can take to close the gap. What You'll Learn What Effective Labor Rate (ELR) is and why it matters more than your posted door rate.Why healthy shops should collect at least 90 percent of their posted labor rate.How unbilled diagnostic time, underpriced canned jobs, and complimentary inspections reduce profitability.Why excessive discounting, even with good intentions, can quietly erode your bottom line.Why improving ELR creates opportunities to increase technician compensation and strengthen your business.How auditing repair orders can uncover missed labor opportunities and unnecessary discounts.Why updating your labor matrix and canned jobs can immediately improve financial performance.How sharing KPI's (key performance indicators) with your team builds ownership and accountability throughout the shop. Effective Labor Rate is more than a financial matrix; it's a direct measure of how well your shop captures the value of the work it performs. By understanding where labor revenue is being lost and making intentional operational improvements, shop owners can increase profitability, invest in their teams, and build a stronger, more sustainable business. Rob Sperring, Grand Rapids Motorcar, Grand Rapids, MI Andy Adams, Adams Garage, Terre Haute, IN. Coach at Repair Shop of Tomorrow Thanks to our Partner, NAPA TRACS NAPA TRACS will move your shop into the SMS fast lane with onsite training and six days a week of support and local representation. Find NAPA TRACS on the Web at http://napatracs.com/ Thanks to our Partner, Today's Class Optimize training with Today's Class: In just 5 minutes daily, boost knowledge retention and improve team performance. Find Today's Class on the web at https://www.todaysclass.com/ Thanks to our Partner, KUKUI Stop juggling multiple marketing tools. KUKUI’s integrated platform delivers 4x better website conversions, automated follow-up, and real-time ROI tracking. Get industry-leading customer support with KUKUI at https://www.kukui.com/ Thanks to our Partner, Pit Crew Loyalty You’re probably tired of chasing new customers who never return. We understand. Pit Crew Loyalty ends the one-and-done cycle, turning first visits into lasting, reliable revenue at https://www.pitcrewloyalty.com/ Connect with the Podcast: Visit the Website:https://remarkableresults.biz/Subscribe on YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/carmcapriottoFollow on Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/RemarkableResultsRadioPodcast/Follow on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/carmcapriotto/Follow on Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/remarkableresultsradiopodcast/Join Our Virtual Toastmasters Club:https://remarkableresults.biz/toastmastersJoin Our Private Facebook Community:https://www.facebook.com/groups/1734687266778976Join our Insider List:https://remarkableresults.biz/insiderAll books mentioned on our podcasts:https://remarkableresults.biz/booksOur Classroom page for personal or team learning:https://remarkableresults.biz/classroomBuy Me a Coffee:https://www.buymeacoffee.com/carmSpecial episode collections:https://remarkableresults.biz/collections The Automotive Repair Podcast Network: https://automotiverepairpodcastnetwork.com/ Remarkable Results Radio Podcast with Carm Capriotto: Facilitating Wisdom Through Story Telling and Open Discussion. https://remarkableresults.biz/Diagnosing the Aftermarket A to Z: From Diagnostics to Metallica and Mental Health, Matt Fanslow is Lifting the Hood on Life.<a...

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Remarkable Results RadioApril 28 · 38 min

Detective Mind Mapping: A Forensic Approach to Automotive Diagnostics [RR 1089]

Thanks to our Partners, NAPA Auto Care and NAPA TRACS Watch Full Video Episode Recorded live at the TST Big Event 2026, host Carm Capriotto sits down with Andrew Fischer, shop manager at Cergizan's Auto and Truck Repair in Northwest Indiana, and an industry trainer. Andrew shares his disciplined, process-driven approach to diagnostics, his passion for technician development, and why shop culture plays a defining role in long-term success. From daily habits to big-picture philosophy, this conversation is a roadmap for building more confident, capable technicians. What You’ll Learn: Why committing to at least 40 hours of continuous education each year can dramatically reduce comebacks and improve shop performanceHow to build learning into daily routines: whether through short practice sessions, webinars, or online training resourcesThe power of Standard Operating Procedures (SOPs) and why “going rogue” in diagnostics leads to inefficiencyHow Andrew’s “detective mind mapping” technique helps technicians visually organize problems and accelerate accurate diagnosesWhy revisiting foundational knowledge is critical and how ego often prevents technicians from mastering the basicsHow embracing failure strengthens diagnostic ability and builds real-world expertiseThe importance of capturing and studying “known good” vehicle data to improve accuracy on future repairs Great diagnostics is about discipline, process, and constant learning. Shops that invest in their people, reinforce foundational skills, and create a culture where failure fuels growth will not only solve problems faster but build stronger, more resilient teams. TST Big Event: https://tstseminars.org/ Andrew Fischer, Cergizan's Auto and Truck Repair, Burns Harbor, IN. Fischer Automotive Consulting and Training Services: factsautomotive@gmail.com Thanks to our Partners, NAPA Auto Care and NAPA TRACS Learn more about NAPA Auto Care and the benefits of being part of the NAPA family by visiting https://www.napaonline.com/en/auto-care NAPA TRACS will move your shop into the SMS fast lane with onsite training and six days a week of support and local representation. Find NAPA TRACS on the Web at http://napatracs.com/ Connect with the Podcast: Visit the Website:https://remarkableresults.biz/Subscribe on YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/carmcapriottoFollow on Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/RemarkableResultsRadioPodcast/Follow on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/carmcapriotto/Follow on Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/remarkableresultsradiopodcast/Join Our Virtual Toastmasters Club:https://remarkableresults.biz/toastmastersJoin Our Private Facebook Community:https://www.facebook.com/groups/1734687266778976Join our Insider List:https://remarkableresults.biz/insiderAll books mentioned on our podcasts:https://remarkableresults.biz/booksOur Classroom page for personal or team learning:https://remarkableresults.biz/classroomBuy Me a Coffee:https://www.buymeacoffee.com/carmSpecial episode collections:https://remarkableresults.biz/collections The Automotive Repair Podcast Network: https://automotiverepairpodcastnetwork.com/ Remarkable Results Radio Podcastwith Carm Capriotto: Advancing the Aftermarket by Facilitating Wisdom Through Story Telling and Open Discussion.https://remarkableresults.biz/Diagnosing the Aftermarket A to Zwith Matt Fanslow: From Diagnostics to Metallica and Mental Health, Matt Fanslow is Lifting the Hood on Life.https://mattfanslow.captivate.fm/Business by the Numberswith Hunt Demarest: Understand the Numbers of Your Business with CPA Hunt Demarest.https://huntdemarest.captivate.fm/The Auto Repair Marketing Podcastwith Kim and Brian Walker: Marketing Experts Brian & Kim Walker Work with Shop Owners to Take it to the Next Level.https://autorepairmarketing.captivate.fm/The Weekly Blitzwith Chris Cotton: Weekly Inspiration with Business Coach Chris Cotton from AutoFix - Auto Shop Coaching.https://chriscotton.captivate.fm/Speak Up! Effective Communicationwith Craig O'Neill: Develop Interpersonal and Professional Communication Skills when Speaking to Audiences of Any Size.https://craigoneill.captivate.fm                                          

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Remarkable Results RadioJuly 17 · 52 min

The Truth About ADAS Calibrations Every Shop Needs to Hear [THA 494]

Thanks to our Partners, NAPA TRACS, Today's Class, KUKUI, and Pit Crew Loyalty Watch Full Video Episode *]:pointer-events-auto scroll-mt-[calc(var(--header-height)+min(200px,max(70px,20svh)))]" dir="auto" data-turn-id="request-WEB:8e59eec7-a235-4fa3-a072-956fea3fe478-7" data-testid="conversation-turn-4" data-scroll-anchor="false" data-turn="assistant"> *]:pointer-events-auto scroll-mt-[calc(var(--header-height)+min(200px,max(70px,20svh)))]" dir="auto" data-turn-id="request-WEB:49a777bf-d263-4496-bf0b-2eb3a46ac96a-11" data-testid="conversation-turn-24" data-scroll-anchor="false" data-turn="assistant"> A viral social media clip about ADAS calibrations sparked thousands of comments and exposed a troubling reality: many automotive professionals still misunderstand when and why calibrations are required. In this episode, Carm Capriotto welcomes technical specialists and industry leaders Keith Perkins and Matt Fanslow to examine the industry's response, separate fact from fiction, and explain why following OEM repair procedures is essential for both vehicle safety and professional credibility. What You'll Learn The difference between static and dynamic ADAS calibrations, and why confusing the two leads to costly mistakes.Why programming, configuration, initialization, and calibration are separate procedures with different purposes.How fear of losing a sale often outweighs concerns about vehicle safety and liability.The real-world consequences of skipping OEM-required calibration procedures.How a properly calibrated vehicle helped protect Keith's wife and children during a serious highway rollover crash.How elevating the role of theCalibration Specialistreinforces professionalism and builds customer confidence. ADAS calibrations are not optional add-ons or revenue generators; they are critical safety procedures designed by vehicle manufacturers to ensure advanced safety systems perform as intended. Professional repair shops protect their customers by following OEM repair information, completing every required calibration, and returning every vehicle to the road safe and ready to perform. Why ADAS Calibrations Are Being Ignored in Auto Repair Shops [THA 484]: https://remarkableresults.biz/remarkable-results-radio-podcast/a484/ Keith Perkins, Previous episode HERE. L1 Automotive, https://www.l1diagnostics.com/, L1 Automotive Training: https://l1training.com/ Matt Fanslow, Riverside Automotive, Red Wing, MN, Diagnosing the Aftermarket A to Z Podcast: https://mattfanslow.captivate.fm/ Thanks to our Partner, NAPA TRACS NAPA TRACS will move your shop into the SMS fast lane with onsite training and six days a week of support and local representation. Find NAPA TRACS on the Web at http://napatracs.com/ Thanks to our Partner, Today's Class Optimize training with Today's Class: In just 5 minutes daily, boost knowledge retention and improve team performance. Find Today's Class on the web at https://www.todaysclass.com/ Thanks to our Partner, KUKUI Stop juggling multiple marketing tools. KUKUI’s integrated platform delivers 4x better website conversions, automated follow-up, and real-time ROI tracking. Get industry-leading customer support with KUKUI at https://www.kukui.com/ Thanks to our Partner, Pit Crew Loyalty You’re probably tired of chasing new customers who never return. We understand. Pit Crew Loyalty ends the one-and-done cycle, turning first visits into lasting, reliable revenue at https://www.pitcrewloyalty.com/ Connect with the Podcast: Download and Listen on Our Mobile App: https://automotiverepairpodcastnetwork.com/app/Visit the Website:https://remarkableresults.biz/Subscribe on YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/carmcapriottoFollow on Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/RemarkableResultsRadioPodcast/Follow on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/carmcapriotto/Follow on Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/remarkableresultsradiopodcast/Join Our Virtual Toastmasters Club:https://remarkableresults.biz/toastmastersJoin Our Private Facebook Community:https://www.facebook.com/groups/1734687266778976Join our Insider List:https://remarkableresults.biz/insiderAll books mentioned on our podcasts:https://remarkableresults.biz/booksOur Classroom page for personal or team learning:https://remarkableresults.biz/classroomBuy Me a Coffee:https://www.buymeacoffee.com/carmSpecial episode collections:<a...

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The Institute's Leading Edge PodcastJuly 1 · 1h 0m

210 - Ask Cecil & Lucas The 5 C's of Effective Vehicle Diagnosis & Repair Documentation

210 - Ask Cecil & Lucas The 5 C's of Effective Vehicle Diagnosis & Repair Documentation July 1, 2026 - 00:59:46 Show Summary: Strong repair order documentation protects the customer the technician and the shop while improving efficiency and profitability. Cecil Bullard and Lucas Underwood explain the Five Cs of repair documentation and why every repair order should tell a complete story from the customer's concern to the final verification. They share real court cases shop experiences and practical examples that show how better documentation reduces liability improves communication and builds customer trust. They also discuss accountability shop culture and why consistent processes create better teams and better results. Host(s): Lucas Underwood, Shop Owner of L&N Performance Auto Repair and Changing the Industry Podcast Cecil Bullard, Founder of The Institute Show Highlights: [00:00:00] – Repair orders protect the customer the shop and the technician. [00:03:00] – Ask better questions to fully understand every customer concern. [00:07:12] – Confirm every complaint before diagnosis begins to prevent wasted time. [00:12:05] – Complete documentation can protect your shop during legal disputes. [00:18:28] – Use a two arrow diagnostic process to prove the true cause. [00:22:10] – Technicians should document the repair plan and final verification. [00:31:02] – Accountability and quality control keep repair order standards consistent. [00:36:08] – Leaders must follow shop processes before expecting employees to. [00:42:18] – Strong culture grows from systems training and customer focused communication. [00:53:05] – The Five Cs create better documentation stronger shops and happier customers. In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode. 👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://youtu.be/cIbTInGm09Q Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this! Links & Resources: Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com. Episode Transcript: Lucas Underwood: Good afternoon, everybody. My name is Lucas Underwood with the Changing the Industry podcast. I own an auto repair shop here in Blowing Rock, North Carolina, called L&M Performance Auto Repair. And today I am joined with one of the elite of the industry, Mr. Cecil Bullard. Cecil is the founder and chairman of the Institute in GEAR Group. And one of my very first classes on writing repair orders was with Cecil. And I'm just gonna tell you right here and right now, I know that we just think that fixing the car is about fixing the car, but when I took that class with Cecil, I really understood the importance of writing a repair order. Because not only is it a repair order that tells you what to fix and tells the consumer what's wrong with the car, but it's a repair order that it's a legally binding document, and it helps us explain and convey information to the client, but it also protects us. So Cecil, how you doing today, buddy? Cecil Bullard: I'm great, Lucas, as always. I'm doing fantastic. Lucas Underwood: Very good. Very good. So we're talking repair orders today. The s- the idea of it is the five Cs, but I think that we need to talk through the process of writing a repair order. So many of us show up at work every single day, and we jump in and we start working on cars, and we focus on fixing the car. But who writes the repair order, who does what part of the repair order, and what information is on the repair order is mission critical to the success of the shop. Because it impacts the close ratio, it impacts liability, right? So if you've ever had to go to court you know how important it is to have some information on there. But it impacts the effectiveness of the shop. So I have seen a difference in productivity and efficiency all the way around by getting the correct information on the repair order at the right time. And so Cecil, I'd like you to kick it off and tell us, guys ask me all the time, "What are the five Cs?" You wanna jump in and tell us what they are? Cecil Bullard: So the five Cs so let me get there in a sec. I wanna- Yeah ... step maybe two steps backward. The repair order starts with the conversation with the service advisor and the consumer- Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: the client. And if I have good canned jobs good descriptions of what I'm doing. For instance, if I'm gonna do a mill light, a diagnostic, or a a electrical diagnostic, I wanna have a really good description of all of that builds value for the client and gets information for the technician. So let, let's think about this- it really starts there. Yeah. I've seen techs spend hours and hours go- because they didn't get the good information in the front. Lucas Underwood: For Cecil Bullard: sure. Going after, going after- Lucas Underwood: It's one of the primary complaints, Cecil. One of the primary complaints- Yeah ... is I just spent four hours looking for this- Cecil Bullard: Yeah ... Lucas Underwood: and you didn't give me the information. And then Cecil Bullard: y- yeah, and then they go up to the service advisor after th- all that frustration, and the service advisor says, "Oh, no. That's n- that's not really what I meant," right? Yeah. And so creating really good CAN jobs to start, which gives us a good heads-up on creating value for our client and give- giving the technician the information that the technician needs to move forward is kinda where this starts. And that really is in a way, that's the first C. What is the complaint from the consumer, right? Yeah. The client. So the first C is the complaint, and we need to document that complaint fully and completely. A- so I can't have a car runs rough. That's not enough for my technician, because my rough, and the consumer's rough, and the technician's rough could be three different things. So I really wanna ask the questions as a service advisor, how often, when, is the car cold? Is the car hot? Is it going uphill? Is it going downhill? Is this only on Tuesdays on a certain road at a certain time- Yeah ... of day? I need to be asking questions of the consumer so that I can get my technician the information that will help them create a problem. So I'll give you an example. Consumer comes in. I'm- I happen to be the service advisor, and I used to be the tech, and says, "I've got a rattle." I happen to jump in the car, and, I write it up, and I'm gonna end up giving it to a tech. But I jump in the car to pull it in the back, and there is just the most ungodly rattle in the trunk. And I- I open the trunk as a service advisor, and there's a bowling ball rolling around. Lucas Underwood: That'll Cecil Bullard: do the trick- And seriously ... Lucas Underwood: won't it? Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Yeah, seriously. And so I take the bowling ball. There's a towel in the trunk. I wrap it in this towel, and I put it in the backseat, where it's gonna be secure, and I test drive the car, and there's no rattle. There's no noise, right? And so I basically finish the work order, and the tech never sees the car. And I figure I got her whooped. And so I write the customer up. It was, I don't know, it was probably at the time it was an hour diag. I think I charged him half of the time and said, "Oh, yeah, we got her found, and, isn't this kind of funny? You have a bowling ball." There's actually dents on the inside of the trunk from this bowling ball rolling around. And the consumer pays the bill, drives out, the client, and not three minutes later, he's back in my- ... in the bay in my face. And, you Lucas Underwood: know- This sounds so Cecil Bullard: familiar. And he goes you didn't get the r- you didn't get the rattle." Yeah. And I'm like, "Oh, really?" Could you- Lucas Underwood: How could that not be the rattle? Cecil Bullard: Yeah, how could that... You- you ignored that completely, and now there's some minuscule... So I go for a ride with the guy, and it's actually a squeak coming out of one of the struts. Going over a bump, right? I didn't ask enough questions. I didn't, as the service advisor. And so now, the customer's already paid. They didn't pay enough 'cause I discounted it because it was so easy to, you know- Yeah ... fix, and I felt bad. And now I've gotta give it to a tech and track, put ears on it and track the noise down, and we end up replacing struts. But that's an example of not really understanding the customer's complaint, and that's- For sure ... that's the first, that's the first C. For sure. Lucas Underwood: And look, I'm gonna tell you, this is something that, that I have been through with my team over and over again. We're not just talking about understanding the complaint alone. We're trying to understand their desired outcome. Yeah. We're trying to understand what it is they're trying to accomplish. Yeah. Because if you knew the number of times that I have been working with a client, and they're like, "Hey, I have this noise." And we're talking, and we go all the way through it, and I fix the noise, right? I call them and say this. And I found out later that here I am, I'm on the telephone with them, and I'm talking through, "Oh, the noise. Yep, absolutely. Got this taken care of." Oh, you got this. But I wasn't active listening. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: They were saying, "Hey, I'm not worried about the noise, but there's this thing." Yeah. And so i- if we're not active listening and paying attention to what they actually want to accomplish... and Susan just came back from the advisor intensive. Yeah. And she said one of the things that she brought up is that, hey, I've been on to her. "Hey, convey to the technicians what it is the consumer's trying to achieve." Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: Like- Yeah ... let's talk about what this is. So Cecil Bullard: maybe we need to, we n- maybe we need to create a sixth C, or maybe it's five Cs and an, a- an A- Yeah ... or something because- ... what is it the customer wants? When they walk away at the end of the, at the end of the interaction, what are they really what are they really searching for? Yeah. And I hope that through the five Cs we actually- Find it, we get it, we confirm it, et cetera. So first C is the customer's complaint. The second is the confirmation of the complaint. Yeah. I need somebody in my business to have felt, experienced heard whatever it is the customer is complaining about. Because, I had a guy who worked for me love... One of my best employees ever, do anything for you. Deaf as a post, yeah. And so if you sent him out on any kind of a noise complaint i- with a car, he'd come back and say, "Not a thing. All this... I can't... There's nothing." And I go drive that thing, and sure enough the, there's a noise. And so somehow I want a confirmation. Whether it's the service advisor that, that drives with the customer and hears the noise. One of my questions as a service advisor was, "Can you duplicate the noise?" Yes. "Can you make it happen-" Yes ... at will? And if the customer said, "Yeah," I'm like, "Let's go for a ride," right? Yeah. I wanna hear the noise, right? Because when it's all done, the, I'm the guy who's responsible as the service advisor for making sure that the customer gets what they expected, and that's no noise, right? The, a solution- ... to their problem. How do we create a list of the right questions to ask? Yeah, that's Lucas Underwood: a... Cecil Bullard: Yeah, that's a great question. And ensure we capture it properly. I think that number one, there's an experience. I think at one point there's somewhere I have a list of questions that would be asked. Yeah. Some of my- A Lucas Underwood: diagnostic questionnaire or something ... Cecil Bullard: some of my shops have a diagnostic questionnaire that they use with the client to help make sure some of that doesn't get missed, right? And I think that as a... I need to be, I don't know, I need to be an investigator as a service advisor and I need to ask probably five more questions than I probably would ask anyway, right? Yeah. I would really like the consumer to say, "Wow, that's a lot of questions." Because I tell my service advisors, I, or I used to "I don't wanna know that it's got a noise. That's simple. What I wanna know is how often can it be recreated? When does it happen? Under what circumstances? At what temperature? Driving on what roads?" Yeah. I'd like to pinpoint it so much so that you could say it only happens on Tuesdays and Thursdays between 1:00 and 2:00, going uphill- Come- On X road. I want Lucas Underwood: every bit of Cecil Bullard: detail Lucas Underwood: you can get me. Yeah. I, you know how many complaints that I get from technicians who say, "These advisors are lazy. These advisors aren't getting me what I need. These advisors are frustrating me. These advisors are causing me extra work. These advisors are running me around like crazy"? Well- And, and- There's a Cecil Bullard: natural tension, right? I mean- Lucas Underwood: There is. Yeah. But just good questions can make all the difference in the world. It can. Getting this information, asking better questions. Because look, it only makes the technician more efficient, and when the technician's more efficient, guess what? You're gonna sell more work, Mr. Advisor. Cecil Bullard: More productivity equals- Yeah ... more money in the bank. And also less frustration, and that's- Exactly ... for me, that's kinda the point. I don't want anyone in my business to be frustrated. Yeah. Frustration you don't work at your best when you're frustrated. Yeah. I don't care what, which job you're doing you just don't work at your best. Yeah. And I want a confirmation. I want in the write-up Someone to say, "I took the car, I drove the car, I heard the noise, I experienced the problem and I need that in the write-up." Yeah. Not just the car has a noise. We replaced the upper control arms, and now it doesn't have a noise. Yeah. I need to... that customer could have another problem six months from now, two years from now. Yeah. Most shops now are y- are probably at least three year, 36,000-mile warranty on most of what they do. And so if that customer comes in two years from now and there's a different service advisor or even myself, I'm not necessarily gonna remember everything that happened. Yeah ... I wanna be able to read that work order and understand not the process, what we went through, what we experienced, why we did what we did. Yes. And I wanna be able to really clarify that for the for my client. I, hey- and it has little to do with court, but I gotta tell you, even yesterday I'm talking to a client and they're like- ... "Oh, I'm in trouble. This customer wants $1,700 back for X, Y, and Z." And I'm like, "Okay. Did you take pictures of the service and the repair that the car was fixed when you did what you did?" "No the tech always forgets to take pictures. They won't take pictures." Yeah. Whatever. And looking at the write-up, there's no clear why we did what we did and what the outcome was. For sure. Lucas Underwood: Absolutely. Cecil Bullard: It's just we replaced the upper control arm bushings. Okay. And if you go to court with that, you're dead. You- Lucas Underwood: Exactly ... Cecil Bullard: don't go. Lucas Underwood: I'm gonna tell you a little story, okay? Years ago, and it was when I first started kinda learning how to run the business, I'd hired my first coach at the time, and a guy came in, and he came from a local rental place, and he was tearing a building down. He was loading the building up, and he was taking it back, and he's kinda like one of these hotshot truck drivers, except he was doing work while he was on site. And if I remember, I'll go post pictures of this at some point. I gotta be careful about it 'cause I don't wanna alert anybody, but so long story short, this gentleman has a brake problem, and I get done with the c- with the truck, and I did the things he wanted done, and I said, "I'm gonna tell you something. I don't trust this thing. It's not stopping right. I couldn't tell you why." And I need to do more testing to determine what that is. You're telling me you need to leave right now, but something does not feel right. Something is not right here. And so I'd driven it, and this was right when I first started learning to write repair orders, and so I put all over that ticket, the brakes are not right, the client declined additional testing, we offered to do the testing for free, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. We don't know what the results might be of this. And so few days later, the guy who referred him out here and he said, "Hey man," he said, "Is this that truck that you were telling me about that I sent over?" And it's this picture, and this thing, Cecil, there's nothing left of it. Yeah. It's in pieces. The cab's ripped off of it. The axles are out from underneath it. The bed's ripped off of it. Now, the highway patrol shows up out here at the shop. Yeah. And he walks in and he's asking all these questions about the truck, and I said, "Here..." "Here's what I have, and here's the signed repair order where they signed off picking the truck up, and here's all the information that I had about the truck." He said, "I've never seen anything like this." He said, "I've never seen this written up." He said, "You were in the clear anyway." And I said, "Why?" He said, "Because he went off the top of that mountain with 42,000 pounds on a truck that was rated for 12." Cecil Bullard: Yeah. He said, "There was-" you know why it wouldn't stop, right? He said- I don't know why. Maybe it's 42,000 pounds in the back- ... when it's only supposed to have 12. Lucas Underwood: Exactly. And so he was- Wow ... he was super cool about it, but he said, "Man," he said, "I'm telling you," he said, "That just..." He said, "That's all I need. What you put on there is enough for me-" Yeah ... "to know that the driver was at fault for this accident." He said, "Because you told him as a professional something was wrong." Which, yeah, and- The number of tickets we see that have nothing on it- Yeah ... fixed brakes. I probably see 10 to 15 of those that come into my shop, dealers, independent shops, the whole nine yards, and they bring me their service history and I'm like Fixed brakes Cecil Bullard: So think about this, 'cause I don't think any shop owner understands the liability that they have. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: So I put a fixed brakes on the work order- Yeah ... and I don't write anything else. I don't write what I found, I don't write why I fixed them, I don't write what happened when they were fixed and how it rode. Yeah. I do nothing but fixed brakes, right? Lucas Underwood: Yep. Cecil Bullard: And that guy goes out and drives it off a mountain and all of a sudden I'm in the middle of a lawsuit that could cost me everything I have. And you think, you would think that wait a minute. I'm a corporation, I'm an LLC or a, an S corp or whatever, so I'm protected as the owner." If there's- Yeah ... anything illegal that goes on, your protection is wiped away. Gone. And so- Yeah, Lucas Underwood: buddy. If you've ever- And- ... pierced the corporate veil- Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: And then- ... they can find out anything. Cecil Bullard: And then I have the excuses of it takes too long to write the work order." Okay. Charge the customer for it. Yeah. I mean- Yeah ... if I have to document and I have to do a good job of documenting what happened and it takes an extra 20 minutes, then raise your labor rate. Or I don't know- Yeah ... add another 20 minutes to the work order to, so that you can document properly, because it's too important, right? Lucas Underwood: It is. Cecil Bullard: So I- It's too Lucas Underwood: important ... I've got a question though because it- Okay ... this is something that comes up. I've got a lot of shop owners that I talk to about this and they say no, you're better off putting less information on there, because then if you put more information, they could say you touched something. You did something. You took something apart.'" From my experiences, that's not the case. I- Cecil Bullard: I have never gone to court. I've gone to court personally for myself like four times. Yeah. I've gone to court 13 times for clients. I've been asked to go to court probably 50. All right? The 47 times I did not go to court- Were because the paperwork wasn't done right. Yeah. There wasn't enough information. Okay? The 13 times I went to court, I won. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Because the paperwork was done properly, because everything- Yeah ... was spelled out correctly. Because the signatures were in the right places. Because the mileage when it came in was on, and the mileage when it left was on. I had a lady with a Chrysler. It's one of my favorite stories. Really nice older lady. Came in, we did, I don't know, $3,500 worth of work to it. Struts, suspension work, tires, brakes, blah, blah, blah. And as part of what we did, we documented the fluids. We documented that the transmission fluid was good. We documented that the transmission was shifting properly. We documented that the engine was running well, that there were no oil leaks at the time that we were driving the car. We drove the car, I don't know, 22 miles as part of what we did. And 800 miles later, about three and a half weeks later, the transmission crapped itself. Okay? 123,000 mile, 140,000 mile Chrysler. Old Chrysler, yeah. Yeah. And so she came in hot. And I brought out the work order. I looked at what we did. I looked at why we did it. I told her, I said, "Look, see here? We checked the fluid. Here's a picture of the fluid. It looked good. There was no metal in it. See here? We drove the vehicle. We drove the vehicle, 22 miles. It was shifting perfectly. There were no problems with the way it shifted. So let me ask you a question. I just wanna ask you one question." She said, "Okay, fine." "Should we have sold you a transmission At, 800 miles ago when it was, when the fluid was good and the transmission was shifting perfectly as a precaution just because you had 123,000 miles on your car. And she looked at me and she went, "No, probably not." Okay, great. And but if you don't have the story, you can't back up what you did and why you did it. Yeah. Yeah. You have to have the story. And it, I don't know. For me if you're a service advisor in my shop, which okay, I don't have one today but I certainly ran a lot of shops for many years. And you're a service advisor in my shop, and you're not gonna write the story out, and you're not gonna create the right documentation, you're not gonna work for me. Yeah. And if I have to take over for you at 3:00 'cause you got a dentist appointment or you gotta go to your daughter's dance recital or whatever, and there's no information for me, the next day's gonna be a hard day for you, Lucas Underwood: right? Yeah. Absolutely, man. We- Absolutely ... Cecil Bullard: we should get in the pattern. So let's talk C number three, right? Okay. We talked about two. Number three is what's the cause? What is causing the vehicle? And I can tell you in my shops we use what we call a two arrow approach. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Okay? So you can't tell me that the code was whatever and it means that the number five spark plug wasn't firing properly. That's ... Okay, that's, that is not necessarily the cause. That's the out- an outcome, right? And you can't say we need to replace the number five spark plug because the code was here." I want testing done that tracks it to say, "This is what we're replacing, and this is why we're replacing it." Yeah. I want a second arrow. And so- For sure ... all of my guys knew if they didn't have a two arrow approach we, w- I wasn't selling it. Okay? Yeah. Or I might call the customer and say, "Look, we need to do some additional testing." I didn't have a problem with a guy coming to me and saying, "Hey, Cecil- ... I gotta run three more tests and then I need two more hours to, to really figure out what this is." Lucas Underwood: Exactly. Does not bother me a bit. Cecil Bullard: Not even- I'll do it Lucas Underwood: all day long. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. But I do have a problem with the computer basically told me number five cylinder." Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And- Absolutely. Lucas Underwood: 100% Cecil Bullard: Because I know having done this for a million years, right? Look at me, I look like I'm a million and a half. But that's a problem waiting to happen- It is ... if we don't have a clear what the cause is. Lucas Underwood: And I'm gonna tell you something. So there's this new and it relates to this question that's coming up right now, so leave the question up. There's apps now, like WhisperFlow, right? And so I can open this app on my phone, and I can dictate directly to it. Does an- ... excellent job of dictating what I'm saying, and even if I wanted to drop it into AI and have AI clean it up and make it more presentable, and I copy and paste it in, you're talking about 15, 20, 30 seconds of me describing- Yes through voice transcription what's going on with this car. So we're not talking about adding a lot of time. We're talking about converting the expertise of the technician To text on the repair order that the consumer could understand and that if, God forbid, you ever had to go to court the judge could read it and understand it. There are a ton of videos of court cases where- Yeah ... a technician is in court explaining what happened, right? And listen, I'm gonna tell you something, because this says, "Isn't it the technician's job to document all these things on the repair order?" A lot of it is, right? The initial stuff, in other words, where we're talking to the client, trying to understand what's happening, that is the service Cecil Bullard: advisor. Service advisor. St- begins the Lucas Underwood: story. But everything else... Exactly. The beginning of the story- Everything else does come to the tech ... Cecil Bullard: the beginning of the story and the end of the story are the service advisor. Lucas Underwood: Yes. Cecil Bullard: Okay? Lucas Underwood: 100%. Cecil Bullard: The middle is the tech. Today. Now, 20 years ago, that wasn't true. All right? Yeah. We didn't have systems where the techs could go in and put the story, and we still have a lot of shops where there's communication issues with the technician that they don't speak, English as a second language or a third language and they just- Yeah ... don't communicate very well. Yes, I want my technician documenting the tests they ran, what the outcomes were. And by, by the way, if, i- again, if you're working for me, let's say that we got an air conditioning system. I want documentation a problem with the air conditioning. Air conditioning doesn't cool. Blows hot air, right? Okay. When? All the time. All right, great. Now I wanna put the gauges on it. I wanna document the pressures. I wanna document- Vent temps ... the vent temps, et cetera, and I want someone to test drive it to verify that it's got hot air, right? Yeah. And under what conditions. All right? 100%, yeah. And a- and that's the tech is, that, that's going to do that for me. Now, we're gonna recommend we're gonna point to a cause. The compressor's bad, right? And we're gonna point to a cure, the fourth C. What's the cure? We're gonna replace the compressor. We're going to replace the condenser. We're gonna replace the I don't know what they have in POA valves- Orphus tubes ... or Orphus tubes or whatever we got today. And then we're gonna evac and recharge the system, right? That's the repair plan. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And in my opinion, the technician's the one that has to create the repair plan, okay? Yeah. And once we've done that- I want a retest of the system. Lucas Underwood: Yes. Cecil Bullard: I wanna know what's different. What were the pressures today- Yep ... when we drove it? And I wanna show by mileage that we actually drove the car. I don't- Yeah ... I want an in and out mileage on everything. Yeah. I don't care if you drove it just a mile test drive, so it came in at, I don't know, 143,000 miles and it left at 143,001. Yeah. But I want the finish of the story. Here's what happened after we fixed it. Yeah. Here's what it looks like. Here's what it feels like- You're exactly right ... today, right? Lucas Underwood: Yes. Cecil Bullard: And because I'm, what I'm doing is I'm also creating a story for the customer so they understand that I didn't just fix the air conditioning, right? Yeah. And I do that in quotes on purpose, right? Because if all I did was fix the air conditioning, what is that, right? Yeah. Oh, you put a little Freon in it. What does that take? Five minutes? Yeah. They make those little cans that you can go down to Pep Boys and buy, and you just put 'em on and turn 'em upside down- The bane of my existence ... and in five minutes the Freon's in the thing and you're done, right? No. We did all of this testing. We did this. We pulled these parts off. We put these parts on. The cleaner and the clearer the story- Yeah ... the less liability I have. If I have to go to court- The more value in the ticket ... or if I have to defend my... Yeah. If I have to defend myself- Yeah ... the more able I am to. And I, don't get me wrong, I don't wanna create a four-page story if there should be a half a page story. Yeah. I used to tell my techs, if you can tell me the service advisor. So when you're writing the work order, a- as a service advisor I always felt like I needed four pieces of information from my tech. One, tell me what's wrong. Okay? Tell me why it's wrong, right? Brakes are worn and need to be replaced. Okay? They're at two 30 seconds, one 30 second, metal to metal. Te- tell me that. Tell me the parts you need to do the job correctly. So is it pads? Yeah. Is it pads and rotors? Is it pads and rotors and a hardware kit? Is it pads, rotors, and a hardware kit, and calipers and hoses? What is it? And then tell me how much time you think it's gonna take. Yeah, for sure. I get that we have a book, and I understand- ... that the book is write X-tra Mile. But you're the one looking Lucas Underwood: at the car, not me. Yeah. I can't tell you how long it's gonna Cecil Bullard: take. You s- you see the fact that somebody has, you know- Yeah ... narfed up the bolts and et cetera, or there's rust or whatever. Tell me what you think and- Yeah ... and then I can create an estimate. And if I get those four pieces of information, they're clear enough, then I can create an estimate and sell that work to a customer. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: I have an... Here, so you gotta bring me back, man, 'cause I'll go, you know me, I'll go- Down the rabbit hole ... Lucas Underwood: way with Cecil Bullard: it. But I ha- I have customers that just they don't get that from the techs, and then the service advisor can't do their job properly. And what they want is for the service advisor to go out and look at the car. Yeah. I don't wanna go out and look at the car. In fact, there's a whole coaching company that's service advisors should be the ones looking at the car because then they can see..." Service advisor, if you're not a good- They're not the professional ... it's not their job and they're not the person. That's the job of the inspection of the car and the repair- Yeah ... plan for the car is the technician's job, Lucas Underwood: right? Exactly. And look, if you know how many times that I have worked with shops and somehow that advisor ends up walking out to the car, making a recommendation, saying, "We should do this, we should do that," used to be a technician. And it's this desire, it's like a curse of knowledge. I wanna fix this thing. I wanna help. I wanna show them I know what I'm talking about. And they get so overzealous that they end up making a mess. And so I think, somebody just dropped in the comments and said, "Hey, that's the responsibility of the shop to train the tech." Stop the Cecil Bullard: technician. Absolutely. I thought it was a- I got a comment I have to make. Matt Allen, go screw yourself, buddy. Lucas Underwood: I Cecil Bullard: thought that you were saying- I was in business for 27 years, and that whole time I ended up in court four times. All right? I went 13 times for different clients, and I've had thousands of clients. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: So buddy, you know- ... stop trying to yank my crank. Lucas Underwood: Diesel's, diesel does not Cecil Bullard: put up with any of that. And go screw yourself. Have a nice day. Oh, Lucas Underwood: that's awesome. Now, Cecil Bullard: where were we? Lucas Underwood: That's awesome. Okay. Cecil Bullard: Look- you wanted some fire, there's some fire, Matt. Lucas Underwood: You got the fire. Cecil Bullard: You can add that to your- This is gonna Lucas Underwood: be a real, Cecil Bullard: we're gonna chop this up to your internet and get some hits Cecil's a mean guy. Lucas Underwood: He's Cecil Bullard: an Lucas Underwood: idiot That's it. That's it Thank you very much. I, look I'm just gonna say that I think that overall when we look at this process, 'cause I just had a good talk with a friend of mine just I guess two nights ago, and he said, "Man," he said, "My technicians came to me and they said, 'Hey, we don't feel it's our responsibility to put all this information down. That's the front's responsibility.'" And I'm gonna tell you something, I, one of the biggest things that I've learned, and we... You remember Jeremy Hoyum? He's from Phoenix. And Jeremy is just such a phenomenal human being. And he was talking about this a while back, and he was talking about accountability, and he said... A- and let me explain. So he coaches 15, 16, 17, 18-year-olds into leaders, right? Because he was in the military, he came out of the military, and he went into the family entertainment space. And here he is, he's saying all this stuff, and he's trying to teach these kids how to work in a business and how to talk to people. And in today's world, I'm gonna tell you, that's a whole different ball game, right? It's a whole different ball game. Yeah. And he said, the failure..." And listen, he's worked for some massive organizations, right? Like- Yeah ... thousands and thousands of employees. Yeah. And this guy's in charge of training them. And he said, "The problem is that we don't have the conversation when it happens." And he said, "So listen-" Wait, well- Go ahead. Cecil Bullard: We are so great at- At picking up the pieces at the end. We're not really great at fixing the process- Definitely ... in the middle. Lucas Underwood: Exactly. Okay. So he tells this story. It's about taking the trash out, right? And he says so Tim is a new employee." And he said, "So Tim comes in and I trained Tim on how to do all the things." And he said, "At the end of the training, I talked to Tim about taking the trash out. 'Tim, you take all the other cans and you put them in this bag. You tie this bag up, you take it out, and you put it in the dumpster.'" And he said, "So Tim comes to work for me," and he said, "Here we are, it's four days in, Tim's taking out the trash every day, and I come in, and Tim didn't take the trash out." And I said but Tim's a nice guy. I really like Tim, and I don't wanna pick on him. I'll just take the trash out." And he said, so it goes on a little bit, and he said, "Three weeks later, Tim doesn't take out the trash again." He said, "Man, what is up with this kid? I've told him about this, and I need to go talk to him. I open the door and the place is full of people." He said, "I can't talk to Tim right now." He said, "So I forget about it. A few more weeks pass, and Tim forgets the trash again." He said, "Now I'm really upset. I'm frustrated. Why is this kid not taking the trash out? I've, Because I've had this experience, I'm thinking about it like Tim should be able to read my mind and know I'm frustrated, right?" And he said, "So what happens is here's Tim, and we're not taking the trash out, and I'm raging, and I sling my door open. Tim's not at work today. And so now the next time Tim doesn't take out the trash, I go and pull him aside and I rip him apart." And- "What were you thinking? You didn't take the trash out." Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And what I should have done is the first time the trash wasn't taken, I said, "Hey, Tim, what's the process? How do you do this?" Lucas Underwood: Exactly. "How often do you do this?" Exactly. He said there's only three answers. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: There's the right answer, a partial right answer, and there's the wrong answer. Yeah. And he said the partial right and the wrong answer are my fault, not Tim's, right? And Cecil Bullard: If you're if you're paying attention- Lucas Underwood: Yeah Cecil Bullard: and you're doing the right things, then your employees are gonna understand you're paying attention. They're much more likely to go ahead and do what needs to be done. Lucas Underwood: Exactly. Cecil Bullard: If you'd handled it in the beginning, you didn't have to get mad, right? Yeah. Lucas Underwood: And we, we- I talk a lot about- Cecil Bullard: Yeah Tim Kite. We struggle. Lucas Underwood: You remember Tim Kite? And I talk a lot about him. I've sent you a couple of his videos, and one of the things that Tim Kite said is, "You promote what you permit." Yeah. And so Tanner is in the comments. Tanner is the shop owner that I'm talking about. Yeah. And it's like Tanner gets distracted, and he goes and he wants to do all these new great big things. Now I'm over here doing this, now I'm over here doing this, now I'm over here doing this. But you weren't holding your team accountable. Yeah. And so if I'm not holding my team accountable, and if I'm not policing the work orders, and I'm not reviewing the work orders, and I'm not doing an audit, and I'm not checking in with my team and saying, "Hey, this didn't meet my expectation"- and if I continue to let it slide- Cecil Bullard: Yeah, and do you have it documented how the work order's sp- supposed to be written up? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: I don't know. I think mine is like seven pages with pictures of the order, why it's in that order how it's written up, whose responsibility is each piece of it, right? Yeah. And so that, and, is it the technician's job to do all of that? Eh, maybe s- maybe not. You might have a different process in your shop. Yeah. It's management's job to make sure everybody that's involved in the process understands clearly their part of the process- For sure ... and how to communicate clearly. Lucas Underwood: And that the process is efficient, right? Yeah. Like I, that's what I hear from so many technicians and so many advisors is, "Hey, our process does not flow. Our process does not work in our shop." And so nobody's looking at it. It's just we've always done it this way." Yeah. Okay. Let's work together to figure out how the process needs to work. And one of the greatest piece of visi- pieces of advice I've ever gotten was that repair order comes up and it's not right, it goes back, right? Cecil Bullard: Yes. Lucas Underwood: Yes. I'm not moving forward until it's fixed. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: I'm stopping right here right now. You're not going on to another car- Well- ... until you correct this repair order ... Cecil Bullard: you put quality control in place as part of your process. Yeah. So in our shop we had a parts guy. We felt like that was a value to us, and so we had a parts guy, so he was the first one to see the work order from the tech. If the inspection sheet, w- again, we're talking a few years ago, we didn't have DBIs, but if the sheet wasn't filled out properly and the estimate wasn't filled out properly, the tech got called in to redo it. Yeah. The work order didn't move. Yeah. And if that means the customer didn't get their car today- Oh right? Yeah. I know I've disappointed a lot of people about getting their car today. Sometimes because of parts, sometimes for other issues. Sometimes it's because my tech wasn't playing the game right, and we had to, send it back two or three times. Yeah. But the other thing is i- if you're willing to put that effort in and make sure that the job is done as efficiently and correctly as possible, and then you have quality control. When I first got to the last shop that I ran, I, for probably three months, I QC'd every work order- ... because it was so messed up. Yeah. At the end of three months, 95% of the work orders were going through fine. Yeah. The stories were good. The stuff was in the right order. The estimates were done. The inspection sheets matched the estimates. The service advisor had written everything up and presented everything, and the work order had the customer did not buy these things, here's why we recommended them- Yeah. Declined repairs ... at this time, right? Yeah. Declined repairs- Yeah ... et cetera. We had a very specific way all that was done. It was documented in a process. It was taught to everybody. It was retaught to everybody. It was quality controlled throughout. So the parts guy's the first guy to look, the second guy's the service advisor, the third guy's the manager, right? Yeah. And as a manager, after three months, I started pulling one day a week. Yeah. I didn't need to look at every work order because I had the other things in play. I only had to pull one day a week and look at them to make sure that we were still on target, right? Yeah. I'm l- I'm looking for pattern failure. I'm not looking for, oops, somebody made a mistake and missed one piece, right? Lucas Underwood: Exactly. Cecil Bullard: And- Exactly ... and so I'm trying, I'm always trying to identify pattern failure because pattern fails then get you in trouble, right? Lucas Underwood: I've got a question for you and see if this resonates with you, because this is something that when I first started really working on my shop and learning about how a shop should run and what a shop was supposed to do, that this was the biggest issue that I had, and I just wanna see if this resonates. When I put these processes, policies, and procedures in place, and I made a video about this just the other day, I oftentimes said, "Yeah Mrs. Smith's in a hurry, so I'm not gonna do that today," or, "This happened, so I'm not gonna do that today," or, "Oh, they can bring their own parts this time because I don't want to upset them And so I put processes, policies, and procedures in place, and as the business owner, I gave myself permission to override them because I- it was my name on the door, right? And I'll never forget, I had an employee come to me one time and "This is asinine. Why are we even, why do we even have rules if we're not gonna follow them?" I'm like I'm, but I'm the owner." And they were like but you put the rules in place, and that they're the, they're making the mess. Like, why are we doing this?" I Cecil Bullard: think, I think- And that made Lucas Underwood: so much sense ... Cecil Bullard: I think we need to be smart about exceptions, and I think there are exceptions. Yeah ... I have a rule that no owner supplied parts. None. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: But I have Mrs. Jones that's been a customer for 35 years. Her husband died five years ago. They brought their oil because, 25 years ago we let people bring their own oil. Yeah. And so she's just used to bringing her oil. I'm not gonna beat Mrs. Smith up about bringing her oil. I'm, you know- ... d- I'm paying back 35 years of a great customer- Of Lucas Underwood: loyalty, yeah ... Cecil Bullard: yeah, et cetera. And I think my staff would understand, yeah, we do have a rule. It is, the only exception is Mrs. Smith. So number one, few exceptions. Yeah. Number two, if you are the owner You have to abide by the rules better and more- Yes ... than anyone else in the business. If you're a manager, if you're a leader in that company, you abide by the rules better than anyone else. Yes. Because they're looking at you and they're saying that's a stupid rule. I don't know if I wanna do that. And wait, Lucas didn't do it." Yep. "If he doesn't have to do it, I don't have to do it." Yep. And pretty soon- Or every Lucas Underwood: staff ... Cecil Bullard: pretty soon there's no process. Lucas Underwood: Yep. Cecil Bullard: And pretty soon- It's not a rule anymore your average repair order's dropped- A suggestion ... your productivity's dropped. Yeah, and you're just not making money the way that you should. You're not profitable the way that you should. Lucas Underwood: And it's chaos, right? Yeah. It's pure chaos because now the standard that we're supposed to be operating by is no longer functioning. And if we continue to break that and we continue to say, "Yeah, but. Yeah, but. Yeah, but." And look I have exceptions too. Yeah. But we've gotten really good about "Hey, let's have a discussion about this exception and make sure we all agree that this exception is reasonable and rational," right? Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: I love the- Let's not just jump at it ... Cecil Bullard: yeah, I love the, I'll tell someone, "No waiters." Waiters are not... It's not in your favor to have a waiter in your shop. They're not thinking right, they're not in the right place. But again, I have Mrs. Jones, who's always waited for her car. Yeah. She's got nowhere else to be. Being at the shop is an exciting thing for her. Yeah. Because otherwise she's sitting at home, staring at the walls. And- Yeah ... and so yeah, I'm gonna let Mrs. Jones come in and wait. And that's... And I've also got somebody who, their car broke down on the road and they're with the car, and they don't have an option. They've got a car, they've gotta be somewhere, we're fixing the car, they're gonna sit around and wait. They're... Yeah, I'm gonna let them wait. They... We need to have common sense. Lucas Underwood: Yes. Cecil Bullard: But we also need to have policies and processes that are followed 99% of the time, right? By everybody. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And that's what, that's what creates efficiencies in your business. If it, if done right- It's a ballet, right? Yes. Yeah. The call is answered right, the customer feels good about coming to, they feel like you care about 'em, they feel like you've listened to them et cetera. They show up, you're there to greet 'em, shake their hand, say hi, pump up the shop and why, talk about your unique selling proposition. Ask them questions so that you are sure that you understood what the situation is, what their out- desired outcome is, what their problem is. Document that properly so the technician can pick it up. If necessary, and I can't... If I have to write a five-page story for the tech I'm probably not writing that five-page story. That's the one that I'm gonna write a one-page story, and then I'm gonna go out and talk to the tech about. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Yeah. " Cecil Bullard: Hey, I just wanted you to know, here's some strange things or different things," or whatever. And then the tech gets the work order and knows what to do and documents the stuff properly, beginning, middle, and end. And then it goes to the, in our shop, the parts guy, who then verified that we made our profit and that we stayed within the estimates that we talked to our customer about, and et cetera. And then the service advisor gets it and verifies again that the parts are done right, the margins are there, the stories are correct, the spelling is 99% good, the grammar is 99% good. Yeah. That two years from now, somebody picks this up, they know what happened. If a w- a, a a wife takes that home to her husband and hands it to her husband, he could read it and understand- Yes. Yeah ... not just what was done, but why it was done, and create value there, or vice versa. If a husband takes it home to his wife, right? I'm not being misogynist here. I'm literally saying there are often- Yeah ... other people involved. That work order could go- Yeah ... in any one of a number of people's hands, and Lucas Underwood: my- And they need to be able to understand it. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Yeah, my story. Lucas Underwood: And same for me, right? That's a major thing for me, because there's nothing more embarrassing than that car coming back a year later. Yeah. And me standing here saying, "I wish I could tell you why we did what we did or why I thought we needed to do that," or whatever it may be, but I can't. Cecil Bullard: You know what I r- ... what I really hate? I've got a customer standing in front of me, and the customer says "Hey how are my tire pressures?" And I look down And there's no tire pressure recorded Lucas Underwood: So embarrassing. Cecil Bullard: Or, how are my bra- I thought my front brakes might be bad. Oh, no, it says here your front brakes are good. Well- They're green ... how much is l- how much is left, right? The I don't have the information I need, even right at my counter. I took my truck in the local Goodyear, and I said, "Align it. ... You're putting tires on it, align it. The tires are worn." We put I put brakes with what it drilled and slotted rotors. Yeah. I spent big money and put tires on it at the same time, said, "Align it and check it out w- when you do the service," right? When I come back and the guy says I said, "There, there's nothing here on the inspection. Nothing." And he goes you only have 43,000 miles. It's probably fine." Lucas Underwood: It's probably fine. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And I said, "And you didn't align it." It was close enough." I'm not a close enough guy. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And- Lucas Underwood: Close enough counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And I ended up taking my truck somewhere else, and they did the alignment, and they bought, for the rear part of it, they had to buy whatever to make the alignment work and, the- Yeah ... I don't know, I spent another $1,200 on this thing that... And at the same time, I'm at the Goodyear, they're complaining about how bad business is, right? You could've got another 1,200 bucks out of me- Yeah ... if you'd have done it right. Lucas Underwood: How much of that, though, okay, so let's go back to Michael Smith for a minute. How much of that is culture? How mu- Well- ... like if in your shop, because in my shop I walk out here and I talk to these guys. Their focus is taking care of the client. Their focus is being an advocate for the client, because that's what we talk about. That's what we do. Yeah, and- That's what we believe Cecil Bullard: in ... and do they understand what that really means in the day-to-day operation- Yeah ... have I- ... it's one thing for me to say we're here to take care of the client." It's another thing for me to have the systems and processes in play that get taught and that my people really understand what that means. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. E- exactly, and my thing is, "Hey, if you don't understand this and you don't know why we're doing what we're doing, let's talk about it as a team," right? But you look at some of these other shops, and I've talked to a lot of guys from those other shops, and what do they say? It's the only thing they talk to us about is money and production. Yeah. That's all they talk about. And the advisor's over here saying, "I'm not gonna get my bonus if you don't get this done," and the technician's saying I'm not gonna get a bonus anyway. I get paid flat rate, and you're not giving me enough work," and it becomes this dog-eat-dog thing. There's a whole- As opposed to the focus being taking care of the client ... Cecil Bullard: there's a whole methodology for running an automotive business and making it as efficient and creating the best culture that you can in the business. And then there's, it, there's a lot involved, but there really isn't, right? Yeah. You could say geez, I have to think about hiring and my hiring message, and I need to have, a employee requisition form because I need to know what the skillsets and the traits are that I need from the new employee so they fit into my culture. And I need to have a good interview process and then I need to have a good training process, and I need to have the processes to train on," right? "And then I need this and I need this and I need this." And I think for a lot of guys, they're just trying to get the job done so they can get the money so they can pay the bills. And a- as you said in the beginning of this or in, in early parts of this, we're- We miss the, like we don't fix the problem when the problem should be fixed. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. We- we're really good at saying, "I can't do that I can't have that conversation right now because there's people." Okay. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Then let's go for a walk, right? Yeah ... I'll go for a walk 100 yards away from everybody else. I'll have the conversation about the trash cans and taking the trash out. Yeah. I don't... Or I'll put it on my calendar for tomorrow and say, "Can you meet me in my office at 10:00 so that we can have a-" Yeah. "I need to speak to you for 10 minutes," right? Yeah. We, w- we are so often, overwhelmed with making the money and just trying to make sure that the bills are paid that we miss some of the really important pieces. And it is, once you have the team on track and you have the culture, it makes it a lot easier. Yeah. When you have the processes, it makes it a lot easier. If you create consistent communication, company meetings at the right times well-defined it makes it easier, right? Yeah. And with every little thing that you are able to put in place, everything that you're able to fix, every time you do that, it makes it easier, and you're also more likely to get the outcome that you want. Yeah. Which frankly it isn't all about money. It has to be somewhat about money because if I can't- Yeah ... pay my bills, then I'm working all the time- ... and I'm not home, and my head's not in the game a- at home, and I need that too. Lucas Underwood: I'm gonna tell you something. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: I talk to a lot of shop owners. I talk to a lot of- ... technicians, and I talk to a lot of service advisors And they all believe that one of those others is looking at what they can get from them, right? Yeah. The shop owner's looking at how much money you can make me. The advisor's looking at how many hours you can turn and what I can get out of the deal, and the technician's looking at how many hours he's gonna get on his ticket. And you know the interesting thing about it, Cecil, is when I talk to them individually, none of them actually want that. None of them actually believe that. They just want to come to work. They wanna earn a good living. Sure. They don't want it to be stressful. They don't want it to be aggravating. They don't want it to be a mess. They don't wanna get yelled at by a client. They don't wanna get yelled at by a coworker. They just want to live a good life, right? Cecil Bullard: The point i- in a way is first of all, I always say this: automotive service and repair is a team sport. Lucas Underwood: Yes. Yes. Cecil Bullard: The service advisor is not more important than the tech, and the owner is not more important than the service advisor or the tech. Yeah. And the kid that cleans the floors and takes the trash out, whoever that is- ... or the old per- old guy that does. Who knows- Yeah ... I, my next career. That, that person is just as important. I- if we all- Yeah ... play our roles and do our thing, we're all gonna be fine. Lucas Underwood: You're exactly right. Remember what Zig Ziglar said? He said years ago, and he said the CEO could leave for a month and nobody would notice." Cecil Bullard: Yeah. " Lucas Underwood: But if the lady who answers the phone were to leave for a month, the place would fall apart." Cecil Bullard: Fall apart. Lucas Underwood: Because the director of first impressions was no longer present, right? And you need- And we just miss it. We Cecil Bullard: just- Yeah ... Lucas Underwood: don't see Cecil Bullard: it. And you also need to cross-train because you are gonna have people that are gonna be out, and so- Yeah ... it, the- Like I said, to me, running a shop and a successful shop is really fairly easy. Yeah. There's, th- there's always gonna be some issue. "Hey, our car count's down. Hey, our average repair order's dropped." Okay. If you have the methodologies in place to measure and the methodologies in place to manage, then you're gonna be okay, right? Lucas Underwood: That's it. You'll make it through the- As long as you'll learn, right? Yeah. As long as you're willing to open your mind, do a little bit of research, learn from people who have been there before because, there's way smarter people out there than me, and I don't need to- See- reinvent the wheel. Cecil Bullard: You see this flat spot on my head? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: So that's from banging it against the wall way too many times. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: So we haven't covered all five Cs. Lucas Underwood: Yeah, we got one more. One Cecil Bullard: more. So we have the cause and the correction. I need a confirmation of the correction in my write-up. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Test drove the car 23 miles, verified that it's running properly, the temperatures are at X degrees. The, the gauges are fine. The light's not on. Yeah. Yada, yada, yada. Because when that customer leaves, if they have another problem, they come back, I want it well-defined what we did, and I wanna know, is that my problem, or is that not my problem? Yeah. Because cars break, thank God, right? They break- Yeah ... and otherwise I wouldn't have a job. I wouldn't have a place to be. Yeah. So I think you're reading- Sure ... the comments. There's a pretty long one that came in. Lucas Underwood: I like that because that is my belief as well, and I know it's yours as well, is I feel like- Yeah Personally feel like flat rate for technicians and commission for advisors are the worst things that can be implemented. And I understand there's gives and takes of that, right? I- Yeah ... I know. But a lot of these guys, and so I posted this in some groups that have a lot of dealer technicians in it- I'm gonna tell you something, Cecil. The only answer I have at this point is leave the dealer, right? Yeah. That's the only answer I have for you. Because a- as I'm talking to these dealer guys, it's not fair. Okay? Cecil Bullard: No. Lucas Underwood: The way they're treated is not fair, there's no doubt about it. Cecil Bullard: I'm sure there's a dealership or two out there- Yeah that do a really good job and treat their people very fairly. There's not enough. And there just aren't enough. Lucas Underwood: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: every time I teach a service advisor class or a management class, I'll have somebody come up to me and they'll say, "Yeah, Cecil, I know that all sounds good, but my owner won't let me do X, Y, and Z." Yeah. "My owner won't. My owner won't won't follow the rules," et cetera. And I have a comment. Your owner sent you to me. I can't badmouth your owner. On the other hand, you have to decide what you're willing to work with and what you're not willing to work with. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And so if you're... what's the minimum level of, Acceptable ... of incompetence I'm willing- Yeah ... acceptable level of incompetence I'm willing to put up with? And if you are good at what you do, if you're a good service advisor, if you're a good tech, oh, my God- Get a job ... the sky's the limit right now, right? You can go to... I could send you to th- three different recruiting companies that would get you a fantastic job with great pay tomorrow, right? Yeah. And, Pay how Lucas Underwood: you wanna get paid. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: In the environment- Cecil Bullard: Et cetera ... you Lucas Underwood: wanna be in. Cecil Bullard: And I would say, you know- The problem with flat rate and the problem with hourly there's problems on both sides of that. There is no pay plan that is perfect except a blended pay plan that allows for as they produce, as they do what they, you want them to, they can make more money. But the base- Yeah ... has got to be a substantial base. We know that from Maslow. If we're not able to- Yeah ... take care of our people and have them feel comfortable working for us, like they're gonna be able to pay the bills and once, maybe once a week get a steak or something then we're not taking care of our people properly. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And we're not charging what we need to charge to do that. Whatever that is, it has to be fixed, right? Lucas Underwood: Exactly. Cecil Bullard: You're- or we're gonna, or we're gonna not attract and keep good people in our industry. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. And, here's what I keep hearing is that, "Oh we've got these warranty times," and, "Hey, I don't get paid for going out. 'Hey, can you go out and check the tire pressure in this? Can you go out and read the codes in this? Can you go do this and go do that?' And it's not on the ticket anywhere, and I'm not... and like I'm compensated by flat rate, so you're basically stealing my time." And Cecil Bullard: that's not right. I would agree 100%. That's why you need- Yeah ... a good base, because if I ask you to, if you need to go help one of your fellow workers, I want you to be able to do that and not feel like you're getting punished, right? Yeah. Lucas Underwood: Yes. Cecil Bullard: And, a- and so pay plans is a whole nother it's another meeting, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: It's another podcast. Lucas Underwood: It's a... I think that we all believe that we have to change this industry. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: We have to make this industry different than what it's been. Your whole belief system is I have to make a change because I want this to be different when I leave it because of the efforts that I made, right? And I think we all feel that way. We want this industry to be better. And here's the thing that frustrates me the most, is that we've got to pull these people along with us. Yeah. So many of them are jaded. So many of them are aggravated. So many of them are frustrated. And so I'm saying, "Hey, we've got to work together and share a message that resonates with everybody, and we've got to move the industry." Because when David and I started the podcast, one of the discussions was is like, we weren't... "How are you guys gonna make a difference? You're not gonna reach that many people." And we said but if we reach one person and we made their life better and they got a little bit better, and maybe they could impact somebody else." If somebody doesn't take action, nothing ever changes. And I think that's where our industry has been stuck for so many years. And so I commend you for what you're doing with everything you're doing right now to genuinely make the change, not just talk about making the change, but genuinely make the change. Cecil Bullard: I got a limited time. I don't know what it is, the older I get, the shorter that window seems to be, and we're not there yet. We got a lot to do. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. And like- Cecil Bullard: And Andrew Andrews, you- if you wanna reach out to me I'd be more than happy to spend an hour and go through pay plans and systems because we have 'em, I have thousands of shops using them. They're fantastic. They're great. Yeah. Technicians make good money. Get the desired result. Yeah. Techs make great money, service advisors, the shop, et cetera. It's not the end of the world. So I... We got the five Cs, right? Yep. The the customer's concern, the confirmation of the concern, the cause, the cure, and the confirmation of the cure. So we- Yeah ... we did what we promised here. And if you guys need to You know, like I said the institute, we're here to help, and sometimes that's... We've got stuff online, we've got stuff on YouTube- Yep ... that you don't have to pay big money. We have we have gear4shops.com. We have, Yep Auto Academy. It's not always, "I gotta pay." Yeah. 100%. A lot of the stuff we do is let's help you, and maybe at some point you say, "Wow, they did a good job helping us, and so now we wanna- Yeah ... sign up for coaching," or whatever. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. And look, I'm gonna tell you, this data is good data for technicians too, okay? Yep. I see a lot of these guys going out and starting their own shops and they don't have any knowledge or any experience. Their dream's to start their own shop, and do this thing on their own, and show the world how to fix the industry by doing it themselves. And so I just wanna say hey, if you're a technician, go consume this data now, right? Even if you don't wanna- Yeah ... start a shop. Go- Cecil Bullard: yeah. Lucas Underwood: Well- Go learn about this right now ... Cecil Bullard: but understand how you're paid, and why you're paid, and how that works, and how what the shop charges, and how what you do makes a difference on that. Yeah. Because i- if you can't understand, then it's gonna be difficult for you, and you're never gonna make the kinda money that you wanna make. You're j- it's not gonna happen for Lucas Underwood: you. Amen. Cecil Bullard: So the more you know, the better prepared you'll be. Lucas Underwood: Amen. Amen. Cecil Bullard: I made a decision 1,000 years ago, when I started to be as, to get as much information and to just know much about this business as I could. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And it has paid off in spades for me. Lucas Underwood: Amen. Cecil Bullard: Just as a tech, as a service advisor, as an owner, as a consultant. That effort, that choice that I made, 35, 45 years ago- Lucas Underwood: Paid big dividends, didn't it? ... Cecil Bullard: changed everything, so- Lucas Underwood: Yep ... Cecil Bullard: do the same. Lucas Underwood: See- Thank you for being here. Yes, sir. Cecil Bullard: Love you, brother. You know that, right? Lucas Underwood: Love you, brother. Y'all be good- Yes, sir ... and we can't wait to see you at the next AMA. Cecil Bullard: Yes, sir.

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Confessions of a Shop OwnerJune 16 · 54 min

Ep 100 - Andrew Fischer | Why Most Technicians Shouldn't Own a Shop

Tekmetric transformed my shop. Plain and simple. Want that for yours? Touch HEREIf you're like me and aren't good at marketing, don't do it on your own. Let the experts handle it. Touch HERE for more on Turnkey Marketing.Send your service advisor to hands down the BEST service advisor training in the industry (even other coaching companies agree). It's Elite Worldwide's Masters Program. The next one is happening in Dallas Texas, September 10-12. Learn more HERE When I used the maintenance tool for the fist time with Detect Auto, my mind was blown. My advisors had the same reaction - and then SO MUCH MORE TIME. Learn more about Detect Auto and book a free demo now!This episode is Mikeless - just how we like it. HA! Today Bryan rides solo at TOOLS 2026 and talks dynamics between technicians and service advisors Andrew Fischer. They bring up the importance of fundamentals and communication—technicians often overlook basic testing but expect to dive into advanced diagnostics, leading to costly mistakes and frustration. They also talk about ego and misunderstanding: both between team members in the shop and toward customers, highlighting how crucial it is to clearly explain repairs and processes, not just rely on expertise. Timestamps:00:00 The real hardest job in the shop: service advisor confessions03:08 Training struggles, being away from family, and the reality of evening classes05:02 Why owners MUST vet what you’re paying for in auto training07:11 Technicians skipping fundamentals—and how it comes back to bite your shop10:20 Ego, ignorance, and the "alphabet soup" of tech skill levels13:13 Fast techs vs fixed cars: the hidden cost of comebacks and efficiency16:19 Communicating diagnostics: where most techs screw up (and how AI helps)19:06 Why the front counter is pure chaos—and techs can’t handle customers21:13 Explaining diagnoses in a way anyone can understand (with help from AI)25:26 The service advisor’s secret: what customers REALLY want to know28:12 The "zip code" analogy for why testing matters30:28 Shops that charge for time vs selling fixed vehicles—who really wins?32:40 Real-life story: four shops, still not fixed (and how a dead battery fooled them all)34:35 What to do when you just can’t fix the car (real talk and lessons learned)41:33 The problem with technician forums & why the smartest avoid them44:28 Why most technicians will never be ready for business ownership47:46 Full circle: gratitude, getting humbled, and growing as a leader50:02 What every technician NEEDS to understand before running a shop

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The Jaded MechanicApril 21 · 1h 59m

You Don’t Know What You’re Worth (Until You’re Wrong) | Jeremiah Hiatt

Like the show? Show your support by using our sponsors. Need to update your shop systems and software? Try Tekmetric HERELaunch your tool game to the next level with Launch Tech USA! HEREIn this episode, Jeff talks with Jeremiah Hiatt, a mobile mechanic from Montana, about his shift from ranch work to running his own ag repair business. They get into imposter syndrome, pricing your work, balancing family life, and the real challenges of modern diagnostics, plus solid advice for techs thinking about going out on their own.Timestamps:05:48 Fixing farm equipment for neighbors12:26 Issues with new technology durability17:09 Importance of equipment maintenance26:33 Discussing work-life balance27:32 Balancing career and family goals34:01 Dealing with software updates41:33 Appreciating Harbor Freight Tools44:40 Diagnosing and fixing the computer52:56 Hydraulic equipment repair experience55:20 Deciding on vehicle investments01:03:24 Challenges in car maintenance01:07:46 Discussing automotive customer communication01:10:18 Deciding between repair options01:17:47 Discussing truck emission problems01:23:06 Limitations on job responsibilities01:27:53 Discussing changes in tech industry01:35:40 The evolution of diagnostic skills01:39:19 Diagnosing a car engine misfire01:47:18 Ideal work-life balance fantasy01:48:20 Finding balance and unplugging Follow/Subscribe to the show on social media! TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@jeffcompton7YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@TheJadedMechanicFacebook - https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100091347564232

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The Jaded MechanicJuly 14 · 1h 51m

Flat Rate Doesn't Match the Real Repair with Josh Forbes

Like the show? Show your support by using our sponsors. Need to update your shop systems and software? Try Tekmetric HERELaunch your tool game to the next level with Launch Tech USA! HEREIn this episode, Jeff is with Josh Forbes of Maxim Muffler in Winnipeg talks about his unconventional path into the automotive industry. What started with constant breakdowns on his first car—a 1993 Ford Tempo—turned into a career built through hands-on learning, apprenticeship experience, and years of navigating different shop environments. Josh shares lessons from dealership life, the importance of shop culture, why employee appreciation matters, and his concerns about the future of right-to-repair legislation.Timestamps:00:00 Tools and Debt Lessons 00:45 Podcast Introduction 02:44 Shop Schedule and Weather 03:27 First Cars and Fuel Costs 08:22 Tempo Breakdowns That Started It All 12:24 College Training at Fanshawe 14:17 Choosing the Trade Path 17:54 Ford Dealer Quick Lane Reality 24:19 Book Time vs. Real Repairs 36:41 Why He Left the Dealer 39:06 Finding the Right Shop 41:29 The Culture That Changed Everything 45:21 Appreciation Over Pay 52:17 How Bad Culture Breaks Technicians 55:04 Forever Apprentice Mindset 58:44 Trade Pay Gap Debate 01:02:19 DIY Repair Horror Stories 01:07:54 Training Service Writers 01:16:24 The Right to Repair Fight 01:21:22 Quality Control Basics 01:23:46 Training Instead of Punishment 01:27:35 Oil Leak Case Study 01:31:46 Recognition and Longevity 01:37:35 Smart Tool Buying 01:40:05 Diagnostics, Process, and School 01:47:00 Wrap Up and Final Thoughts Follow/Subscribe to the show on social media! TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@jeffcompton7YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@TheJadedMechanicFacebook - https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100091347564232

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The Jaded MechanicJune 23 · 2h 23m

Dealership or Independent Shop: Which Is Better? | Eric Schoenberger

Like the show? Show your support by using our sponsors. Need to update your shop systems and software? Try Tekmetric HERELaunch your tool game to the next level with Launch Tech USA! HEREIn this episode, Jeff Compton sits down with Kansas technician Eric Schoenberger of Holt Motor Company. Having grown up around Chrysler dealerships alongside his father, a veteran drivability and transmission specialist, Eric shares his experiences in dealer life and why he ultimately transitioned to the independent repair world. The conversation explores flat-rate frustrations, warranty and recall work, shop politics, diagnostic strategies, transmission repairs, evolving technology, and the value of ongoing training. Eric also discusses how independent shops offer less stress, and a different approach to customer service and technician growth.Timestamps: 00:00 Podcast Welcome and Holiday 00:45 Kansas Guest and Vision Talk 01:30 Shop Intro and Dealer Roots 06:03 Family Influence and Career Path 08:12 Flat Rate and Recall Frustrations 17:25 Favorite Dealer Work and Transmissions 23:03 PT Cruiser Love-Hate Jobs 25:35 Diagnostics and Techline Support 27:49 Dealer Life and Shop Politics 32:37 Misfires, Burnt Valves, and Borescopes 36:31 Pentastar Problems and Tips 41:26 Diesel Disasters 44:04 Recall Work Realities 49:21 Hybrid Battery Discussion 52:37 Leaving the Dealer World 55:47 Advisors, DVI, and Communication 01:01:38 Training Great Advisors 01:08:35 Transmission Service Debate 01:14:38 Moving to Independent Shops 01:16:27 Learning Through Service Information 01:18:46 Oddball Repairs and Old Mopars 01:27:05 Caravan Rear A/C Repairs 01:33:05 Training Events and Mentors 01:38:49 Shop Culture and Dispatching 01:40:44 A/C Diagnostics and Leak Testing 01:47:37 Parts Support Challenges 01:54:02 Technician Pay and Flat Rate 01:56:23 Gravy Work vs. Diagnostics 02:02:27 Independent Shop Mindset 02:12:28 Training and Networking 02:20:06 Final Thanks and Wrap Up Follow/Subscribe to the show on social media! TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@jeffcompton7YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@TheJadedMechanicFacebook - https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100091347564232

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Changing the Industry PodcastMay 18 · 1h 0m

Episode 269 - Lessons Learned From Custom Car Builds and Business Ownership With Sunny Massera

Don't get to the end of this year wishing you had taken action to change your business and your life.Click here to schedule a free discovery call for your business: https://geni.us/IFORABEDon't miss an upcoming event with The Institute: https://geni.us/InstituteEvents2026Shop-Ware gives you the tools to provide your shop with everything needed to become optimally profitable.Click here to schedule a free demo: https://geni.us/Shop-Ware-Free-MonthTransform your shop's marketing with the best in the automotive industry, Shop Marketing Pros!Get a free audit of your shop's current marketing by clicking here: https://geni.us/ShopMarketingProsShop owners, are you ready to simplify your business operations? Meet 360 Payments, your one-stop solution for effortless payment processing.Imagine this—no more juggling receipts, staplers, or endless paperwork. With 360 Payments, you get everything integrated into a single, sleek digital platform.Simplify payments. Streamline operations. Check out 360payments.com today!In this episode, Lucas Underwood and David Roman are joined by Sunny Massera, a custom car and truck builder from Oregon. Sunny Massera shares the hard lessons he learned from business ownership, including the importance of choosing the right business partner and the unexpected realities of running a shop versus working for someone else. The conversation also covers the challenges of building custom and performance vehicles—from managing customer expectations to dealing with unreliable aftermarket parts.00:00 Moving between New Mexico and California04:19 From flat rate to custom cars07:30 Realizing business complexities09:46 Deciding not to work alone13:05 Getting hired at second Bronco shop16:22 Discussing how to fund a startup20:36 Partner's role in business growth23:18 Revamping old Broncos28:11 Understanding the engine issue31:14 Working at custom car shops33:21 Learning through hands-on projects36:45 Test driving vehicles before ordering40:00 Restoring a 59 Ranchero41:33 Future of classic car market46:46 Challenges finding car parts50:09 Troubleshooting transmission issues53:35 Fixing ongoing installation issues56:10 Tuning engine installations59:15 Advice for young professionals

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The Institute's Leading Edge PodcastMay 14 · 57 min

205 - The Diagnostic Fee Debate: Ask Me Anything with Cecil Bullard and Lucas Underwood

205 - The Diagnostic Fee Debate: Ask Me Anything with Cecil Bullard and Lucas Underwood May 13, 2026 - 00:56:50 Show Summary: Lucas Underwood and Cecil Bullard explain why diagnostic testing should never be treated as free work. They discuss how weak pay systems and poor communication have lowered the value of technicians across the industry. The conversation compares automotive testing to the medical field and explains why customers should expect to pay for professional diagnostics. They also cover technician growth customer education leadership and the need for stronger professionalism in repair shops. The episode ends with a call for the industry to raise standards and focus on creating long term value. Host(s): Lucas Underwood, Shop Owner of L&N Performance Auto Repair and Changing the Industry Podcast Cecil Bullard, Founder of The Institute Show Highlights: [01:00:25] – Customers understand testing better than diagnostics. [01:03:09] – Proper testing requires skill experience and expensive equipment. [01:04:04] – Shops lose profit when diagnostic time is given away. [01:06:47] – Flat rate pay discourages advanced diagnostic skill development. [01:12:10] – Lucas explains his Level One testing process. [01:14:45] – Cecil compares automotive testing to medical diagnostics. [01:19:22] – Skipping testing leads to poor repairs and wasted money. [01:31:06] – Lucas discusses leadership responsibility and coaching influence. [01:39:40] – Accurate testing saves money and prevents unnecessary repairs. [01:50:16] – The industry must value professionalism and technician expertise. In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode. 👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://youtu.be/cUCa2tz_G1c Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this! Links & Resources: Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com. Episode Transcript: [01:00:00:01 - 01:00:11:22] Lucas Underwood Good afternoon, everybody. My name's Lucas Underwood from Changing the Industry podcast. I'm also a shop owner. And this afternoon, I'm here with the man, the myth, the legend, Mr. Cecil Bullard. Cecil, how you doing, buddy? [01:00:11:22 - 01:00:14:10] Cecil Bullard Howdy, howdy. I'm great, Lucas. As always. [01:00:14:10 - 01:00:24:14] Lucas Underwood Yes, sir. Yes, sir. So we've got some deep dive topics for the day. I'm excited about it because this is a hot button series of topics. So let's dig right into it. [01:00:25:15 - 01:00:53:00] Lucas Underwood Now, now, Cecil, we're talking diagnostics. We're talking testing. We're talking charging for it. But you know something? Very, very early on when I first started kind of working on improving my business, I went to ASTA for the first time and I got into some training classes. It was drilled into my head from the word go. You don't sell diagnostics. You sell testing and testing results in a diagnosis. How do you feel about that, Cecil? [01:00:56:10 - 01:00:56:24] Cecil Bullard Who cares? [01:00:58:05 - 01:01:03:19] Cecil Bullard I don't care. Here's the thing. I mean, I sold diagnostics for, I don't know, 25 years. [01:01:03:19 - 01:01:04:04] Lucas Underwood Yeah. [01:01:04:04 - 01:01:52:00] Cecil Bullard We're going to diagnose your car. Now, testing actually, we keep having these people that come into our industry and they come up with these great new words. And so let's not call it green anymore. Let's call it, I don't know, pumpkin pie or whatever. Who knows? Who cares? Right. And so if you're selling pumpkin posse. Yeah. If you're, if you're selling, if you're, if you're good at selling diagnostics, who cares? Right. This is the one instance where testing probably makes more sense only because the consumer probably understands testing a lot better than they understand diagnostics. Okay. And, and so, you know, I'm, I'm, if I'm going to go to the doctor, they're going to run a series of tests. [01:01:53:03 - 01:02:38:10] Cecil Bullard If those series of tests don't give them the information they need, then they're going to run another series of tests or more tests. And, and so I think that at least because of the medical industry and the, and the work they've done, the testing probably makes more sense at this particular point. And if we made that shift in the industry, would it make it easier for your customers, your clients to understand what you're, what you're doing and why there's a cost to it? And, and the answer is probably yes. So, you know, as far as calling, you know, technicians, mechanics or mechanics technicians or specialists or whatever, I don't care what you call me, you know, just call, make sure you call me. As [01:02:38:10 - 01:02:40:16] Lucas Underwood long as you pay the bill when you're done, I don't care. [01:02:40:16 - 01:02:41:09] Cecil Bullard Yeah. [01:02:41:09 - 01:02:42:09] Lucas Underwood Yeah. [01:02:43:17 - 01:02:44:16] Lucas Underwood Go ahead. Go ahead. [01:02:44:16 - 01:03:09:03] Cecil Bullard I just, we keep coming up with new words, thinking we're going to change the game when we're not really changing the game. The problem is that we don't value ourselves as an industry or our time as technicians or as mechanics and we never have, and we still don't value that time. And that creates a lot of the unrest in our industry and a lot of the financial issues in our industry. [01:03:09:03 - 01:03:45:15] Lucas Underwood I agree a thousand percent Cecil. I completely agree with you. But here, here's where I'm at on the testing thing. Okay. And a couple of thoughts behind this process. When, when I bring a client into my shop, I start with a level one testing routine. Now look, if you've never tested a car, if you've never done the diagnostic process yourself, it is very easy to say, well, hey, I'm just going to wrap that into the price. It's not that big of a deal. No, it's a talent. There is skill associated. There is knowledge associated. There's tooling associated with it. If you've never been the one to do it, you just don't understand how complex the process can be. Okay. [01:03:45:15 - 01:03:52:14] Cecil Bullard I'm talking to a shop yesterday. They have $189 posted labor rate. [01:03:52:14 - 01:03:53:07] Lucas Underwood Yeah. [01:03:53:07 - 01:03:55:29] Cecil Bullard Okay. They have an effective labor rate of 123. [01:03:57:26 - 01:04:00:08] Cecil Bullard Now they're wonder why there's no money in the bank. [01:04:00:08 - 01:04:01:00] Lucas Underwood Yeah. [01:04:01:00 - 01:04:02:13] Cecil Bullard And you know, we're talking about. [01:04:02:13 - 01:04:04:06] Lucas Underwood Everybody they're higher than everybody in town. [01:04:04:06 - 01:05:44:14] Cecil Bullard How many comebacks do you have? Oh, we don't have any, we have hardly any comebacks at all. Okay. And by the way, that's the answer. 99.9% of the time, we don't have any comebacks. Okay. Wonderful. Wonderful. It's not that how many, how many DVI's do you give away without charging that to your customer? Yeah, we do DVI's for free for our clients. Okay. All right. How much, how many times does your master technician, your A-Tech have an hour to quote unquote run tests or diagnose a car and take two days? Oh man, that happens a lot. Okay. Now we've, we've, we've circled in on one of the main reasons that the effective labor rate. And by the way, it's like $27,000 a month for this shop because their effective labor is so far off of their posted rate. And they, their A-Tech is again and again and again. If it's so easy to do this quote unquote diagnosis, anybody can do it in half an hour, anybody can do it in an hour. I cannot, you know, you got these ego tacks out there and I'm going to get blasted, but they're out there and they're like, Oh, well anybody should be able to do that in an hour. You know, we should be able to diagnose this code in an hour that code. And yet hundreds, if not thousands of guys are spending three, four, five, seven, 10 hours on a car, trying to figure out what's really going on. And, and how does that not come together? My ego is being in the way of being profitable and making money. Right? Yeah. Then I'm going to come up to the shop owner who's cheating me. [01:05:44:14 - 01:06:47:25] Lucas Underwood Well, so a couple of things here, right? First of all, let's just, let's put the elephant in the middle of the room and beat it. Okay. Because the reality of the situation is this, the pay systems and the way that we have set up the testing routines have not rewarded technicians. Okay. Now I get that there are thousands of ways to obtain reward and to find meaning and purpose in life, right? We go back to Michael Smith's leadership in the last. It's not all about money. It shouldn't be right. Right. But I'm going to tell you right now, if you don't pay somebody for it, they're not going to develop the skill. Right? I mean, let's just be real about it. You go and you work in the dealership and you get paid 0.25. You get paid 0.5 to go and do said testing that you know is going to take you an hour and a half or two hours to do it. Is it fair? One, no, it's not. B, there's no system. They're, they see them giving it away. Okay. When, when someone sees you giving their work away, it says to them, I don't value this. Well, we've, I don't see value in it. [01:06:47:25 - 01:07:11:22] Cecil Bullard Yeah. That's, that's one of the other issues we've devalued ourselves over and over and over again. And we continue to do that. You've got an owner that used to be a tech and for him or her, it, oh, it was easy for me. You know, every car that came in, I could figure it out in an hour. And, and then, but they're not the one figuring it out. Yeah. I have a, I have some companies that are, um, uh, [01:07:12:29 - 01:09:26:29] Cecil Bullard like restoration. So that what they're doing, there isn't quote unquote a book time for right there. They're sometimes making components and, and taking something off of a vehicle was never intended for this vehicle and, and re retooling it and et cetera. And we're timing materials. So when your timing materials, um, what's better to have the worst tech doing the job or to have the best tech doing the job. And if you do do that, you're going to have to do it. And if you do have the best tech doing the job, is that, is that hurting the shop, but helping the customer? Is that hurting the tech, but helping the client? Right. So yeah, our, our, um, the way we pay and obviously, you know, I'm for a pretty decent base pay. Right. So you're going to be here. You got to know that you're going to have, you know, food at home and a shelter over your head. And once in a while it would be nice if I could take my wife out to dinner or whatever. Right. And you got to know that. And then I think you need to have performance enhancement stuff. And if you are excelling in certain areas in certain ways that I can earn more money, I can make a bigger paycheck. And if you can blend those two, which is what we do, then I think you have the best of both worlds. But, but it doesn't, it will never matter if we don't, if we continue to devalue what we do. We do this techs all the time because, you know, we'll go, "Oh, I know exactly what that is." And then you have to have a lot of money. And I think that's, that's what I think that is. But wait a minute, why do you know exactly what that is? Well, you're some experience. So I have, I don't know, 252 scars on my hands. The reason I know this is because when I'm sitting in church and I'm bored, I'm OCD. So I'm counting the scars. And I've done it a hundred times, right? A thousand times. And where did those 252 scars come from? Working on cars. They came from reaching up under a dash and, and getting cut. And they came from, you know, a bunch of cars. And I think that's, that's, that's the reason why I'm here. sized them as they mostly were. Is because, uh, [01:09:27:29 - 01:09:49:02] Cecil Bullard I work overtime and I had a lot of hard work around them. And then you do the whole thing, pushed into that and I were like, Oh my God, this is terrifying. and, uh, you know, and there at the first time, you're someone else's medical Vancouver department. weren't born with it, right? You, you,u paid for it in blood, sweat and tears. You paid for it in extra hours that you didn't get paid for, you paid for it in real blood. Right? [01:09:50:15 - 01:10:17:11] Cecil Bullard And yet we constantly, we disregard that as technicians. I would say it's epidemic in our industry. And then you have your ATEX who don't understand why the C-TECH can't do it as fast or as good as they can. Right? Well, I don't understand. This is so easy. Well, go back to when you were learning. It wasn't easy when you were learning it. Right? And until we... Absolutely. [01:10:18:16 - 01:10:30:04] Cecil Bullard Until we find a way to kind of value ourselves and our time, that's what we have. Could you imagine a lawyer, like lawyer giving you 30 minutes without charging you? [01:10:30:04 - 01:10:33:09] Lucas Underwood Let me just tell you something. They don't ever. [01:10:33:09 - 01:10:35:01] Cecil Bullard No, they don't. [01:10:35:01 - 01:11:14:29] Lucas Underwood The one I've been working with here recently is fire. I mean, so good. We've got two right now that I work with on pretty much a daily basis. And there's a lot of things that they will just talk to us and say, "All right." And then they roll that into what they're doing. And I understand that, right? Because it's too much to every telephone conversation. Every second. Yeah. But I'm going to tell you right now, I've got a bad one and two good ones. And the two good ones, buddy, I don't even care. I don't flinch when that bill comes in because it's like, a great example is one of them, they're in another state and he calls me the other day and he said, "These people that we're going to battle with." [01:11:16:01 - 01:11:32:03] Lucas Underwood Two years ago, they were in a civil case and they accidentally released a document and I found that document and it is your everything you need to get what you want from them. And it's right there. Yeah. And he went through thousands of documents. [01:11:32:03 - 01:11:36:16] Cecil Bullard A few hundred thousand dollars. I'm like, "Yeah, you're worth your money, man. [01:11:36:16 - 01:11:52:07] Lucas Underwood Whatever you need to do. Send me the bill." Yeah. And so here's the big thing for me and I've dealt with a lot of shop owners and I talked to a lot of techs, a lot of shop owners on a daily basis. I talked to probably six or seven already today. [01:11:53:07 - 01:12:09:14] Lucas Underwood First of all, the main issue that I see is the people who have never done it don't value it because they don't understand it. And so there's a lot of these shop owners who went and they just bought a shop and they just say, "Well, a car goes to tech, tech tells me what to do, car fixed." [01:12:10:14 - 01:12:50:23] Lucas Underwood And all they see is the time associated with it. They don't understand the talent. They don't understand the skill. They don't understand the logistics of what has to happen to properly repair that automobile or to find out what's wrong with it. And so what I started doing in my shop season, and you tell me if this is right or wrong, I start with a level one testing routine. It has one hour on it and they get the basic data. It's a code read, it's fuel trends, it's data acquisition, it's confirm the client's concern, determine where it's at on the car, get me some base data. And if you can figure out in that hour, which about 90% of all cases they're able to, then great. It's an hour. We roll on with it. Typically they're out in half an hour to 45 minutes. [01:12:50:23 - 01:12:59:07] Cecil Bullard And maybe this is just coming in my head at the moment. Maybe what we're really doing in that first hour is creating a testing plan. [01:12:59:07 - 01:13:00:19] Lucas Underwood Well, that's what I was getting ready to say. [01:13:00:19 - 01:13:01:22] Cecil Bullard Or a diagnostic plan. [01:13:01:22 - 01:13:05:20] Lucas Underwood That's exactly what happens if it is something advanced. [01:13:06:21 - 01:13:30:12] Lucas Underwood And so step two, that technician comes to me and they say, Lucas, here's the data I have collected. It tells me that I am looking at an issue that is in X circuit because it says circuit high and I know it's not the component and I know it's not the computer because I've done these two tests. I have to do X to find this. [01:13:30:12 - 01:13:37:01] Cecil Bullard I have to spend this amount of time or I have to run these three tests in order to determine what's really going on. [01:13:37:01 - 01:14:45:03] Lucas Underwood You came back to me with data and you said, here's the test I need to do. Okay. Now, if I go to the doctor, I just want to point this out. If I go to the doctor and I've fallen, I've hit my arm and it's all bruised up and it's all to pieces and I go to that doctor, first of all, I'm going to pay for the visit fee. Okay. So I go into the doctor and they're going to say, Hey, it's a hundred and whatever dollars. The doctor comes in, takes a look and says, Hey, Lucas, I believe you've broken your arm. Now for me to determine the best course of action to correct your concern, I have to do additional testing. That's going to be an X-ray, that's going to be an MRI, that's going to be whatever it is. Now at that point, we'll know what course of action we need to take. Do we have to do surgery? Can we just set it? What do we do next? Right? First of all, they're not giving me an estimate for what's wrong. They're giving me probabilities. They're giving me some idea of where we're headed. But if I went into that doctor's office and they said, man, it looks like your arm hurts. I'm going to have to do some testing. It's going to be about a thousand bucks. Okay. What test are you going to do? Well, I don't know yet. I'm going to figure that out when I get there. I'll let you know. [01:14:45:03 - 01:15:10:13] Cecil Bullard Right. But that's not, that's not kind of how it works. I mean, I was at the doctor yesterday, normal visit. I'm diabetic. So I go twice a year and he says, how are you doing? I paid my $95 coded up, whatever. So he's getting paid, I don't know, $250 for between me and the insurance company. Maybe it's 150 for 10 minutes of his time at most. [01:15:12:09 - 01:16:16:01] Cecil Bullard And he says, oh, well, you're looking great, but I want to send you to this guy because you've got this problem and they need to, we need to figure out what's going on so we can have a course of action. Right. So we know what we're going to do or if we're not going to do anything. And so I paid for him. Now I'm going to go see a quote unquote specialist that will, I'll pay for that visit and then I'll pay for the testing on top of that. And then I'll have a plan to move forward. That's that's you know, we could discuss why are our medical systems out of hand and other things. The process that they do to determine the plan to solve the problem is a good process. They've been doing it for years and years and years. It works. It gets the right answer most of the time, 97% of the time or whatever. Right. And and and we move forward. And yet in our industry, we're like, well, I can't charge anybody for that. [01:16:16:01 - 01:16:23:25] Lucas Underwood Well, I just need to point out to you Cecil. Yeah. That's when you know you over the hill when they start saying, well, we're not going to do anything about this. [01:16:23:25 - 01:16:24:16] Cecil Bullard Yeah. [01:16:25:27 - 01:16:26:03] Lucas Underwood Yeah. [01:16:27:21 - 01:16:30:28] Cecil Bullard Until you can't walk anymore, then we'll think if we need to do something, [01:16:30:28 - 01:16:32:18] Lucas Underwood we'll get you a wheelchair then see. [01:16:32:18 - 01:16:39:16] Cecil Bullard Yeah. Yeah. That'll be great. You can get one of those little things. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. [01:16:39:16 - 01:16:49:19] Lucas Underwood My dear friend Rick white, when he hurt his back had a scooter that they read him around on at Apex and I've never let that go. I just rubbed it in all the time. [01:16:49:19 - 01:17:00:26] Cecil Bullard You know, I had a, I had a foot surgery three years ago before Apex and I was, I was on a scooter for Apex and yeah, not, not fun. I'm really not fun. [01:17:00:26 - 01:17:18:13] Lucas Underwood I bet not. So look, when we talk about this testing thing, I just want to point something out about this because I think it's so important when we look at that medical field, they see value in the test that they're going to do because they know what test needs to be done. [01:17:19:18 - 01:17:52:23] Lucas Underwood They're in charge of charging you for that test, right? They decide what test has to be done. They put it on there. It gets billed to you and then the thing happens, right? Yeah. I think what happens in our industry is there are so many people who do not understand the service advisor and the owner or the service manager do not understand the skill, the talent, the tools, the ability, the time it takes to properly diagnose an automobile. Well, and so it's, it's different for them to stand up there and say, this is $400, but that's why I do the testing routine. [01:17:52:23 - 01:19:21:25] Cecil Bullard That's part of the problem with our industry. So if we look at, at a doctor, a doctor cannot afford to just go set your arm, right? Yeah. The bone is sticking out. You know, I know I've, I've got the scars to prove it, blah, blah, blah. Bone is sticking out. The doctor says we need to do some testing to find out what's going on because we need a course of action. All right. Now, if they had just set my arm at the time because the bone was sticking out, then I wouldn't have use of my wrist. Okay. Because it was, the bone had shifted when it broke. All right. Now, and they needed to find that out. And, and in the medical field, they cannot afford to set that bone and then later have me sue them or come after them because I know I now, I now no longer have use of my wrist in the automotive field. We don't seem to have a problem with, well, that guy wasn't right. Okay. And we, we even, we even, we propagate this idea that there's too many guys out there that aren't right. Well, yeah, because we're not giving them the tools or the necessity to run the testing to be right or the time when you, when you have a free, Oh, by the way, I have an hour. Man, you've spent three hours on that car. [01:19:22:25 - 01:21:03:07] Cecil Bullard How come, how come? What is it? You know, well, let me pull something out of my behind so that I'll get you off my back. And then, well, wait a minute. That guy was wrong. Now the shop is paying for it or the customer is paying for it or whatever, because we didn't do the testing in the front because we didn't value it because we didn't understand the liability that we have on the other side of that. It's a, it's a problem that is bigger than we think. And it's been going on for a very, very long time. Don't get me wrong. There's some guys out there working on cars that shouldn't be working on cars, but there's a lot of guys, when you put someone in a position for their family to starve or them to cheat, what do you think they're going to do? Let their family starve. Yeah, they have to. Right. And so when you're not charging for your text time and, and I don't know if, if Mike is here or not, but if he is Mike, don't tell me you're not charging for diagnostics. If you raised your labor rate, you are charging for your diagnostics. You're just charging for it in a different way. So now we got that out of the way. All right. But if you're not, if you're not charging for your diagnostic and, and you're asking your tech to do that for free, or you're paying for that yourself somewhere, there's a cost. There's either cost to the customer in poor diagnostics or incorrect answers. There's a cost to the, to the, the owner of the company, the company. And if there's a cost to the company, there's a cost to the employees of the company. And that's one of these things why we have techs constantly complaining about how poorly they're treated. You know, is it fair? [01:21:04:12 - 01:21:29:24] Cecil Bullard You call me, Hey Cecil, I've got this Toyota Camry that, you know, 2014 and it's got this weird blah, blah, blah. What's it going to cost? Right? Oh, well, you know, we're going to need to. We need to do some testing. And so we start at $300 and that'll be applied toward the testing. And if we can solve the problem with that, we'll certainly solve the problem. You come in, it's not even a damn Toyota. [01:21:30:24 - 01:21:46:02] Cecil Bullard Right. Yeah. And you show up with a, I don't know, you show up with a Nissan and you don't even know what you're driving and you want me to tell you on the phone what that price is going to be to fix something that I have no idea what it is or, or anything. [01:21:46:02 - 01:21:55:27] Lucas Underwood But our industry set that expectation, right? Our industry has created that expectation in consumers and, and, and we, you know, Dutch is always bust about us being a commodity. [01:21:55:27 - 01:22:24:05] Cecil Bullard Yeah. We keep propagating that. And you know, some of it is because we have egos and our egos won't let us get out of the way of ourselves. And, and, and some of it is because we don't, we don't get it, right? We really don't understand the, the financial aspects of the business or the, the, uh, uh, liability we have or any of the, you know, a few other things. And, and, and some of it's just probably plain ignorance. [01:22:24:05 - 01:22:43:28] Lucas Underwood Okay. Spicy, spicy perspective coming in here. I think some of it is because we're too stupid to have our own thoughts. So we go and we listen to some big wig coach who is in a metropolitan area who has thousands and thousands of clients that they can pull from. And, and we don't realize that what we're doing is basically market manipulation. [01:22:45:00 - 01:23:01:28] Lucas Underwood And, and we don't care that it devalues our industry as a whole. We don't care that it damages our industry because all we care about is making enough money to sell the shop or do whatever we need to do. We don't care who it upsets. We don't care who it hurts because all we care about is our shop. All we care about is the money. [01:23:01:28 - 01:26:37:16] Cecil Bullard I think, um, when you look at, at, at human beings in general, um, certainly there is the trap of I'm only doing what's best for me. Yeah. Okay. And, uh, right now, you know, someone hangs this sweet carrot of if you get 10 locations, you're going to get 16 X and, uh, and they stay. And by the way, you're going to get a really nice VC company that's going to buy your company for top dollar, and then they're going to take care of all your customers and employees, just like you would. Uh, you know what? I will, I was born at night, but not last night. Okay. So, so yeah, we're. And by the way, should we be doing what's best for us? Right. Yeah. So on the, on the chart of, of, um, uh, what's important, uh, my chart is, is Cecil's relationship with Cecil. Okay. Then it's Cecil's relationship with God. Then it's Cecil's relationship with his family. And then it's Cecil's relationship with his business. And then it's Cecil's relationship with everybody else. Right. And the, and the reason why that has become that over the years, because it wasn't always that was because if I'm not happy with me, I won't be happy with anything else or anybody else. I have to like me. I have to understand me. I have to know that with all the, all the warts and all the other stuff, you know, the temper, the whatever, that I'm a good guy and I'm trying to be a good guy and I'm trying to, you know, et cetera. And so I like me and, and then I need to have a relationship with God, whatever that is, so whatever your. You know, you may say there's no God, Cecil. There's a, there's a being or some science or something. Okay. Whatever that is, you have to have a relationship with it. You have to understand how you fit in the world. Right. And then I got to make my wife, uh, mostly happy. Can't make her all happy. Can't make my kids happy, but I got to do my best for my family. And then it's my business because there's an awful lot of responsibility. So with that nature that we have, are we going to look out for ourselves sometimes more than we probably should? Yeah. You know, I think it's, it's inherent. What, what gets me in our industry is that I almost dread going online anymore because 90% of what I'm hearing is negative. Yeah. And, and I, in this industry, this industry has been good to me. All right. Uh, I was, uh, 19 dropped out of college, came home, started as a tech for my dad. I was making 50,000 the first year I was working as a tech and I got news for you. I didn't know squat. Right. And, and then I became a service advisor and a manager and, and eventually I owned shops and sold those. And then I started a coaching company and now we're, you know, we're expanding and doing other things. And, and the industry has got me here. And got me through, I don't 45 year, 45 tough years with four kids. All right. And, and where else can that happen? You know, someone that drops out of college that really knows very little high, high intelligence, high ego, right? But other than that, not much going for me. Uh, and, and I end up here, this is a great industry. There's more opportunity in our industry right now than there's ever been. And you know what, if your owner is treating you like crap, [01:26:38:18 - 01:26:40:11] Cecil Bullard you know, how many shops need a tech, [01:26:41:11 - 01:26:52:14] Cecil Bullard right? And so don't sit in the, excuse me, do not sit in the pile of shit and then complain how stinky it is. Right. Get out, [01:26:53:14 - 01:27:43:19] Cecil Bullard shower yourself off, go get another job somewhere. Because I know right now I could tell 50 shops, if they could find an ATEC, they'd be paying that ATEC as much, almost as much money as they wanted. And probably a lot more than the average in the industry and, and really giving them a great place to work with all the support they need, all the tools, all the equipment, all the education, all the training, et cetera. And then I understand what you were saying about like the coach. Sometimes we have these companies that are telling you what you want to hear. Yeah. Not what you need to hear. Okay. Absolutely. And, and, and I think, you know, it's probably a good thing that I'm not God, frankly, cause I don't have the patience or the understanding and I might do some, [01:27:44:24 - 01:28:15:15] Cecil Bullard I might do some really crazy bad things because there are people in our industry that, you know, if I had the, if it was up to me, they wouldn't be in our industry, but that competition, that, that knowing that that's out there drives me harder every day, right? Yeah. It makes me want the Institute to do better, to do more, to, to have more impact, to, to help more people be successful. Right. [01:28:15:15 - 01:28:34:29] Lucas Underwood Here's the thing is that those people, okay, let's think about this for a minute. They know, right? Those people are intelligent enough to know what they're doing. They're intelligent enough to know what the outcome is. Um, Mike Allen says he wants a list of people that sees with Smike. Mike's at the very top of it. [01:28:34:29 - 01:28:37:05] Cecil Bullard No, he's not. He's like fifth on the list. [01:28:38:17 - 01:28:38:23] Lucas Underwood Okay. [01:28:39:28 - 01:28:43:19] Lucas Underwood Um, uh, now I need to, oh man, this is going down a dark tunnel here. [01:28:45:20 - 01:28:56:15] Lucas Underwood But I, you know, look, I'm just going to say like, I think that, that those people know, and they know that the impact they're making on the industry. We pick on Mike. Mike really does. [01:28:56:15 - 01:29:01:00] Cecil Bullard Mike's a easy target. Thanks. And thank you for being that target, Mike. [01:29:01:00 - 01:29:09:08] Lucas Underwood Yeah, absolutely. And he's, he is working. I see his efforts behind the scenes all day long of like teaching people and trying to lift them up and, [01:29:09:08 - 01:29:27:23] Cecil Bullard and, but you, you have a big responsibility when you have the ear of the industry. Okay. And if you're going to be an industry influencer, there's a responsibility, not just to provoke, but to educate and to help. [01:29:28:28 - 01:29:39:26] Cecil Bullard Okay. And if you're, if you're provoking for the sake of, um, uh, hits and likes and crap like that, that's problematic. [01:29:39:26 - 01:29:42:05] Lucas Underwood That is not why Mike's doing that. [01:29:42:05 - 01:29:44:15] Cecil Bullard No, I know what Mike's up to. [01:29:44:15 - 01:30:00:18] Lucas Underwood I, yeah, what Mike is up to is he's just trying to meet his brother's level of this success. I mean, his brother was this super successful pilot and he did all these amazing things and Mike has always felt a little bit less than because of that. And so Mike is working really hard to get to the next level. [01:30:00:18 - 01:30:39:16] Cecil Bullard Do you know where we, do you know what we have to compare ourselves to? If you do this, right? You compare yourself to yourself. That's it. Amen. I, if I, I will never be the man my dad was. Okay. Um, he was stronger than I am physically, uh, till the day he died. He, I will never be him. Okay. And there's good and bad about that. And there's a lot of people out there that I admire. Okay. But I'm not going to be them. I hold myself to my own standard, right? It's my standard for me. I don't, yeah. [01:30:39:16 - 01:31:06:00] Lucas Underwood I've got to ask this question. Okay. This has nothing to do with diagnostic testing and it's something that I think I have personally struggled with a little bit, um, and something that I think about often when, when we give advice, right, it's rooted in our belief system. It's rooted in, in who we are, but I take giving advice to other people very seriously, and I take lifting them up and getting them to a better place very seriously, [01:31:07:03 - 01:32:07:05] Lucas Underwood when we look at, at people giving some of this advice and, and I, I think they genuinely believe that they're doing what's right. I think they genuinely believe they're, they're doing the right thing for other people. See, so how do you judge that advice? How do you know that you're leading them in a right direction? Because like these, what I keep seeing is I see these people, they're business owners and they're, they're lost, right? They don't know where to go. They don't know what to do. They don't know. And, and many of them pull from many different facets and they get information from lots of different people. But sometimes someone will attach to a very specific person. And what that person says is the grace and they believe everything they say. My fear is that my belief system may move their morals or their values in a different direction that doesn't align with who they are. And I take that very seriously. But I don't, how do you avoid that as a, as a coach? How do you make sure that you're not infringing on their belief system? [01:32:07:05 - 01:33:31:20] Cecil Bullard Do you, do you remember what I, I, I started out with in, and that is, um, Cecil has to like Cecil and then God and family and et cetera. So, um, you know, I judge the success of what we do with clients by their success, right? And I always said, you know, we, we can influence, um, we can't, I can't make your decisions for you. I can ask you what I can, I can tell you what I would do. Um, I can tell you also as a coach 20 years ago, I was a lot harsher and a lot more imagine that right. Uh, and a lot more, um, you got to do this and you got to do that. There were, there were a lot more definitive statements. All shops should, all people should blah, blah, blah. Uh, those, a lot of those things have disappeared from my, from my vernacular, I look at the, at what the Institute for all the clients that we have served and all the clients we serve and the success that we have. And I judge my success by that success. I also judge my success by being able to look at myself in the mirror in the, in the morning and, and, and like what I see, even though it's, it's a little flabbier, a little older and a little whiter. [01:33:31:20 - 01:33:33:05] Lucas Underwood Well, saggy, the old nine yards. [01:33:33:05 - 01:33:34:09] Cecil Bullard Yeah. All that. [01:33:34:09 - 01:34:34:01] Lucas Underwood There's a, there's a great question that just came up and I'm going to take a stab at this, he's going to pop it up on the screen for us because I'm wondering about the best ways to present a higher cost for Diag to customers. I always have a hard time, especially if we end up having to send it elsewhere because we don't have a special tool or software. We go as far as we can. Then we have to stop sometimes medical field. It's not a big deal to pay a bill to one doctor after they tell you they need to send you to a specialist, but in our industry, it feels like we've just failed. Now, listen, I'm going to tell you that for me, I'm judging that situation very early on. Okay. I'm not taking on things that are out of my wheelhouse and I have learned my lesson. And listen, Cecil, this is something you've seen in my shop. If the advisor is not astute, automatically, if they don't have that technical knowledge, if the manager doesn't have that technical knowledge, it can be very difficult to weed those out. But you have to have a technical team that says, "Hey, I believe this is something that we shouldn't get into. We need to get this out." There's things that require some treatment. [01:34:34:01 - 01:35:55:10] Cecil Bullard But I don't, I would, in a way, I disagree with you because we need to define what our jobs are in the business, right? If I'm the owner and the manager of my company, what's my job? To provide my people with the things they need to be successful, goals, org charts, job descriptions, tools, education, et cetera. Am I the one making the decision as the owner that we're going to take that job or we're not going to take that job? No, I'm not qualified. I haven't worked on cars in 16 years. Okay. There's no grease under my fingernails. There's, you know, the scars I have are well healed and there's no fresh stuff going on. Is it the service advisor's job to make that decision? No, no, no, it's probably not. It's the tech's job. This is beyond our capabilities. And by the way, can the tech do that if we haven't charged some time up front to determine that? And maybe we need to develop a list of specialists in our area that we can say, "We need to send you to a specialist on this type of a car." And not feel bad about doing that because that's what's best for the company. That's what's best for the client and the client's vehicle. It's not to bring it in and try to mess it around and, you know. For sure. [01:35:55:10 - 01:36:32:07] Lucas Underwood But, but I mean, here's, here's the thing. A 1993 Mercedes SL shows up. It's KJET. It's one of the worst injection systems ever built. Somebody's going to yell at me for saying that. It's terrible. It's awful. You look at that car and you say, "Hey, I don't work on cars that are older than 20 years old." "Hey, I don't work on Mercedes that's this type of fuel system." I don't, right? Like there's, if we know, right? If I know there's no way I'm going to work on that car, I know better. I have learned my lesson. I have paid the price for it. I'm not going to take that car. [01:36:32:07 - 01:36:41:12] Cecil Bullard As techs in our industry, we judge ourselves by being the guy that can fix everything and have all the answers. [01:36:41:12 - 01:36:45:10] Lucas Underwood I'm over that Cecil. I am so over that. [01:36:45:10 - 01:36:45:25] Cecil Bullard Me too. [01:36:46:25 - 01:37:06:01] Cecil Bullard Someday, hopefully we mature enough to understand that that's, you know, that there are things in our life that we're never going to do, right? I'm never going to fix every car. I'm not going to fix every client. They won't, you know, I, I've got, believe it or not, there are people that won't listen to me, right? [01:37:07:24 - 01:37:49:25] Cecil Bullard Sometimes I'm like, "God, you've hired us to help you. We're telling you what to do." And yet you won't go do it, right? Right. And again, I can only have influence. So I think, yeah, I think we need to decide kind of upfront what our roles are and what we're willing to do and what we're not willing to do. And the better we make that, the clearer we are, then the better we can focus our business on being more successful as opposed to, you know, all the crap. And I got to tell you, it's, it's really hard when you have no cars in your shop to say no to somebody that's bringing in a Mercedes with a K-Jet system or whatever. Right? [01:37:49:25 - 01:37:56:05] Lucas Underwood No, it's not. So I would rather be broke. I would rather not pay my bills this month. Okay. I'm just telling you. [01:37:56:05 - 01:38:23:07] Cecil Bullard It's hard for most people to, when they think, again, if you think, if you judge yourself on your, your prowess of fixing cars, and now all of a sudden you're making a shift into ownership or something, and you have to judge yourself now on the success of the people that work for you, not, and your clients, not on your own ability to, to fix cars. And that's not an easy shift to make. [01:38:23:07 - 01:38:37:07] Lucas Underwood I agree. And that, that was one of the hardest things for me to do because the things that I saw as easy, the things that I saw as, Hey, just go do this. I recognize other people don't have the same abilities that I had. Now, I don't have the ability anymore. [01:38:38:15 - 01:39:34:28] Lucas Underwood But they were easy for me. And so I would judge the situation based on my knowledge, right? The curse of knowledge. I would talk to clients on the front counter based on what I had experienced and got myself into trouble many times. Now I'm going to tell you, be prepared. Here's where I am with this. What I do is I bring them in for a level one testing routine. And I just explained in 90% of all cases, I'm able to determine the cause or causes of your concern. Other 10% of cases, I may have to refer you to a specialist or do additional testing. I will never, ever, ever change my estimate from this price. You will stay in control of the entire process at all times. But I may come back to you. And if you are one of those 10% cases and let you know, we have to do additional testing or you need to go to a specialist or you comfortable with that. And so I, you know, I made a video last night talking about this until you've been to a shop that throws parts at your car and can't actually fix it. And you just spent $3,500 trying to change all these parts and you still have the same exact problem you went in with. [01:39:35:28 - 01:39:40:05] Lucas Underwood You listen, they have no issue paying for proper testing at that point in time. [01:39:40:05 - 01:40:33:04] Cecil Bullard And those are my clients. The least expensive way to fix your car is to have someone that knows and understands that vehicle, inspect it, do the proper testing, create a diagnostic, a diagnostic process, plan for it and pay for that. That's the least expensive way to fix your car. And this, the stuff we do in our industry, like taking it over to, you know, one of the parts houses and they're going to test it for free and then sell you an oxygen sensor and you're going to bring it in and I'm going to put it on your car. Can't, can't make that work. Right. I, and we, we have to stop as an industry doing those kinds of things. And we have to, and, and those of us that are in the industry that are being affected by that, we should be fighting that tooth and nail. Yeah. Right. [01:40:33:04 - 01:40:54:18] Lucas Underwood Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Got an incoming question and I vote. I know which one it is. And it's Mike Allen saying, are you super clear if you have to pump this to a specialist that you're still charging? Yes. Now listen, I've had issues with advisors not being super clear, but I am super clear and I am very, very transparent about that. [01:40:54:18 - 01:41:24:15] Cecil Bullard And what I want to, what I really want to teach my advisors is this. We need to be as clear as, as I mean, crystal clear about what the costs are going to be and what's going to happen with our clients. And by the way, if I want a client to argue with me about the cost, do I want that to happen before I work on the car or after my tech is spent two hours on the car and created a plan, right? And, and what happens a lot is the advisors, we have a lot of. [01:41:25:23 - 01:42:43:22] Cecil Bullard Unqualified salespeople in our industry. We're not really salespeople. Okay. They're not really advisors and, and they're, they might be the nicest people. They might be all kinds of things, but they're not really advisors and they have a fear, I don't want to have this conversation because it's going to be a potential to have that person be mad at me or have that person take their car away or whatever, and they may walk away and not like me. Right. And, and, and so we're vague. We're vague about our answers. We're vague about what we're going to do. We're vague. How many shops have you walked into that have a very good script about Diag and what they do, why they do it, what the costs are, why those costs are the costs and what, what is likely to happen and what could happen. You know, how many shops have that script that your service advisors know and understand. So that customer is right off the bat understanding what's really going to happen and why it needs to happen that way. I would tell you for me, like sales and building value, it's so easy, but it is not easy for the average service advisor because they've been taught how to do that and they don't have the experience to do that. Right. And so we, yeah, we, we need to, yeah, we got to clean that up. [01:42:43:22 - 01:44:28:21] Lucas Underwood You know, look, we, we pick on Mike, but, but let's be honest about why Mike does a lot of what Mike does in this instance. And it's because Mike needs a competitive advantage. He is, he is in a very, very heavily saturated area. There's a lot of shops around him. There's a lot of people around him too, but he uses this as a tool to try and drive more people in the door. He uses it to set himself apart from the rest of the crowd. I use something completely different, right? Like for me, I'm using the fact that we can test anything. I'm using the fact that we have abilities nobody else has. And we have those abilities because we pay our guys to learn this. We pay our guys to go to training. We have this set up so they can develop these skills and we have the equipment and that costs money, right? I understand like in their eyes, a lot of times it's like, Hey, they don't really know that they're still paying for it. They don't understand that it's in the labor rate, but to me, like, I feel like that devalues the industry as a whole. I feel like it makes it look like this should be a free service. You know, just two weeks ago, we had a car in the shop that, that came through and he called somebody else and they, they were going to do the job we were going to do for $700 for $240. And they're telling them about how we're ripping them off. They've never heard of a coolant service. They've never heard of this. They've never heard of that. And then we look at our industry as a whole and it's like, Hey, this guy's over here talking smack on an industry standard just to talk smack about it. I think if we could align ourselves, if we could get our industry moving in a more similar direction, where we're, we're making it better about our actions in our shops, our single shops at a time, we have a chance at getting this industry to where it's seen as a professional industry. [01:44:28:21 - 01:44:34:01] Cecil Bullard So let me ask you, let me ask you a question. I got, I got a couple of points, but let me ask you this question. [01:44:35:22 - 01:44:49:09] Cecil Bullard We're going to go somewhere and have a steak. Yeah. All right. And they've got a, uh, I don't know. It's $120 steak. Yeah. Um, but they also have a $30 steak and they're the same steak. [01:44:49:09 - 01:44:50:04] Lucas Underwood Yeah. [01:44:50:04 - 01:45:00:22] Cecil Bullard Okay. Does that, did, would that even play? I mean, would, would anybody at all look at the $30 steak and think that's the $120 steak? [01:45:01:23 - 01:45:15:16] Cecil Bullard No. Right. So if somebody comes into my shop and we're going to charge them $700 for whatever, right? Uh, Mike, that's my imaginary shop. Okay. Um, I don't own one. I'm thinking of buying one just because you put, you goaded me, [01:45:15:16 - 01:45:18:00] Lucas Underwood but no, I missed this. [01:45:18:00 - 01:45:55:09] Cecil Bullard But, but, um, uh, if I'm 700 and they call and say, this guy is, is saying he doesn't even know, never heard of this and he's going to charge $240 for the same thing, you know, my answer would be it's not the same thing. It can't be the same thing. Because if he, if he knew what he was doing, if he understood his business, if he understood the time it was going to take to properly diagnose and fix this car correctly, he'd be charging you $700 also. And then I want to, I want to play on something you said. Mike uses this for competitive advantage because he's in a saturated place. [01:45:56:13 - 01:47:28:26] Cecil Bullard Boo hoo. I mean, every, you're, you're somewhat unique, right? In your out in the country and you're kind of further away. There's a two thirds of the shops are in saturated places. And there are a lot of guys that aren't using, well, we don't charge for diagnostic as their competitive advantage. And they're doing just fine. I know they're my clients, right? Um, I, I always talk about this stupid book. I'm going to write that Cecil, you don't understand is the title, you know, I love it. You, you don't, you don't understand Cecil. Um, my shop had 41 shops within a mile of it and two dealerships and we were $58 higher than the next shop and we were the busiest shop. We had the happiest clients, the most satisfied. Uh, we, I believe we were the most profitable, although I didn't see all the other shops, P and L's. I did see some of them because I was, you know, that's when I started my coaching career. But, but I, I, I don't need to do that for a competitive advantage. I need to take great care of my clients. I need to help them understand why it costs, what it costs and how they're paying when somebody says, you know, I can get it done for 240 and you're going to charge me 700, you must be ripping me off. I have to say, wait a minute. Time out. No, that's not true. Because if you and I go to the restaurant and I ordered the $120 steak and you order the $30 steak, we're not getting the same steak. Okay. [01:47:30:04 - 01:48:17:23] Cecil Bullard And in, in, intelligently, internally, we understand that emotionally. We don't necessarily get that. We have to help our clients take their understanding and create emotional intelligence around that, uh, with what we, we charge and why we charge it. And I would say that most shop owners understand that we, or at least believe that if the client comes to them, the client is going to get a better repair, a better job, we care more, et cetera. And we should definitely feel that way about it, but a good salesperson helps the client take their emotion, their mental intelligent understanding and create emotional understanding around that. [01:48:17:23 - 01:49:58:04] Lucas Underwood Yeah, absolutely. And I think that if we, if we are not doing that, and so it's your job as a coach to do that for us, it's our job as a business owner to do that for, for your people, for our people and our people's job to do that for the client coming through the door. And I genuinely see that if we don't start taking moves to move our industry in that direction, as far as educating the consumer about the value in what we do, that we are professionals, right? And see that, that, that's the thing that trips me up on this. Because I can look at Mike's shop and say, that's my friend's shop. I love him. I care about him. I want the best for him. And if that's what's working best for him, so be it. He can do whatever he wants. The thing that, that hems me up on that is that I know that it has a detrimental impact to our industry in the longterm, right? There's no ifs, ands, or buts about it. We've seen what it does. We see what the code scan from AutoZone and Advanced Auto Parts does to our industry. And so we know that not charging for that testing makes it look more like a commodity. Right. And I'll never forget. One of these coaches we're talking about was on a podcast a while back and he said, man, he said, I'm a retailer. I'm a retailer. I don't care about the industry. I don't care about any of that. I'm a retailer. I'm here to make money. And I'm like, but, but we're not retail. We're professionals. This is our job. We are here to advise, consult, provide information to the consumer, help them make an informed decision about one of their most expensive purchases that they'll ever make in their lifetime. Right. And it's not just about money to us. [01:49:58:04 - 01:50:16:05] Cecil Bullard And if that customer takes care of their vehicle, that vehicle will service them and service them well for a very, very long time. Now, now here's the, here's the other thing. And I think this is like super important. And we have to stop complaining. [01:50:17:11 - 01:50:48:22] Cecil Bullard We have to stop talking. I'm not, not talking about the bad stuff. And, and, and I can't, whose actions can I, can I change? Luke, Lucas, can I make you do something? No, I can't make you do anything. I can only change my own actions. So we, if we want consumers to understand the value of what we do, we have to start talking like what we do has value, not like what we do is crap. [01:50:49:22 - 01:51:04:17] Cecil Bullard And, and there'll always be some bad guys out there. We can't, we can't help that. We can't make that go away. You know, um, like I said, it's a good thing. I don't have that power because I would do some, [01:51:04:17 - 01:51:06:07] Lucas Underwood there would be some people, uh, [01:51:07:07 - 01:51:08:03] Lucas Underwood burning crisp. [01:51:08:03 - 01:52:23:22] Cecil Bullard Yeah. But, but, but I can be as positive as I can be and work towards a better industry and, and try to bring people together to, to work towards that better industry, I can influence again, what we say on our podcasts and, and how we say it or what we say in our, um, our groups and how we say it, I can influence that hopefully, but I can't change it all. I can only change as much as I can change it and work as hard as I can work. Um, I, we, we, we want to be seen as professionals as an industry. And yet many of us don't act as professionals and we need to, we need to turn that corner. Yeah. Okay. And whatever that takes, I mean, if it's a, if it's a badge that we wear a star on our forehead, a tattoo, whatever, whatever that's going to take, I'm for it. As long as we change the conversation and we start moving towards, you know, becoming in being the professionals that we know we need to be and that we know we should be, that's what we, that's what I'm for. [01:52:23:22 - 01:53:29:05] Lucas Underwood You're exactly right. And I think that it takes experience. I think it takes commitment to trying to do the right thing, focused on doing the right thing. And, and sometimes it has to be, you know, I, and I'm with you, right? Like I've, I've really shifted over the past couple of years from, Hey, I'm primarily focused on our industry and making our industry better, right? But I still have to be able to pay my bills. I still have to be able to take care of myself and my family and I have to be there for them and, and I've seen the impacts through other people's actions of what misaligned, uh, desired outcomes or misaligned intentions can do. And so I recognize that I have to align my, my family, myself, they have to come first, my business has to come first, but still yet, every decision I make in my business, I'm trying my very best to say, how can I improve this industry? How can I make this industry a better place? Because one day I have this vision that I'll maybe my son owns this shop and I want his life as a shop owner to be easier than mine, because I'm not going to lie. This has been a slog. [01:53:30:05 - 01:53:30:11] Lucas Underwood Okay. [01:53:30:11 - 01:55:23:25] Cecil Bullard I'm just saying you like it. I mean, that's the other part. You know, we, we, we go through our lives and, and you know, I, I'm not, I always say I'm not supposed to be in this industry. I wasn't, this wasn't the plan. And, and here I am, you know, 44, 45 years later and here, you know, here I am. And I've been in this industry and, and, uh, it's been good to me. It hasn't been easy. But you know what, the hard part of it has, what's kept it interesting and, and make me strive and all of that. I don't, you know, I don't, I don't think there's a perfect anything and, and, you know, thank you, who, whoever's in charge of the universe for doing that to us so that we, so that we know how to strive and that we continue to strive. Um, I've had a great life. I've enjoyed my life. Uh, I'm going to hopefully enjoy it for another 20, 25 years and, and, uh, continue to try and influence, um, the industry to be as professional as possible. And, uh, I just, I really want to go to the changing the industry blog and all the, the, you know, the group and, and I want to see some people say, man, you know, my owner Lee is just a great guy. And man, this is a great shop that I work in. And there's such great opportunity to be a tech in this industry today. You could almost write your own ticket. And I'd love to see some owners go in there and say, you know what, man, it, it's a struggle, there's some bad weeks and occasionally there's a bad month, but overall, man, what a great industry we work in, because if we can't, if we can't talk about it that way and be that way with it, the public is never going to understand why they pay us a nickel. Yeah. A hundred percent, a hundred percent. If we get, we got to get more positive focused in this industry. [01:55:24:25 - 01:55:45:28] Cecil Bullard And, uh, so look for the, uh, automotive industry initiative coming out soon, which, uh, is the group of, uh, people we put together and we're going to be putting more people into that pile to drive the industry towards more professionalism and towards, um, worse, uh, to be more solidified and more positive. [01:55:46:29 - 01:55:47:03] Cecil Bullard Absolutely. [01:55:47:03 - 01:56:17:17] Lucas Underwood It's going to be great Cecil. Thank you for being here today. Everybody. Thank you for, for being part of the conversation. Our dear friend, David over at inbound is going to get all kinds of diagnostic questions because the email says support at call inbound. So, you know, David, listen, you just answered the best you can. We'll riff off of it next time. Okay. So, uh, you know, I'm really excited about the things that are happening and the moves that we're making and even, even little old Mike Allen over here, his efforts in the industry have been huge as well. [01:56:17:17 - 01:56:21:13] Cecil Bullard I'm going to have to give him a big old wet kiss on the cheek next time I see him. [01:56:21:13 - 01:56:49:14] Lucas Underwood So that's it. He would enjoy that very much. So, uh, but I am so thankful to be here with you today, Cecil, and I can't wait for the next one. We got another one coming up next month and, uh, it's just been a blast. And if you guys have any additional questions, make sure that you email over to the Institute and we'll try and answer those next time on our next AMA with Cecil Buller. Cecil, thank you, sir. Thank you, Lucas. Have a good day, buddy. Love you, brother. Love you, man.

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Remarkable Results RadioMay 8 · 57 min

Why ADAS Calibrations Are Being Ignored in Auto Repair Shops [THA 484]

Thanks to our Partners, NAPA TRACS, Today's Class, KUKUI, and Pit Crew Loyalty Watch Full Video Episode *]:pointer-events-auto scroll-mt-[calc(var(--header-height)+min(200px,max(70px,20svh)))]" dir="auto" data-turn-id="request-WEB:8e59eec7-a235-4fa3-a072-956fea3fe478-7" data-testid="conversation-turn-4" data-scroll-anchor="false" data-turn="assistant"> *]:pointer-events-auto scroll-mt-[calc(var(--header-height)+min(200px,max(70px,20svh)))]" dir="auto" data-turn-id="request-WEB:49a777bf-d263-4496-bf0b-2eb3a46ac96a-11" data-testid="conversation-turn-24" data-scroll-anchor="false" data-turn="assistant"> Recorded live at the 2026 TST Big Event, host Carm Capriato sits down with shop owners and industry trainers Keith and Liz Perkins for a candid conversation about the evolving future of automotive repair. From the growing demand for private, hands-on training to the dangerous misconceptions surrounding vehicle calibrations, Keith and Liz share hard-earned insights from the front lines of the industry. They also pull back the curtain on how they successfully balance multiple businesses, a family farm, and life as entrepreneurial partners, all while staying deeply committed to technician development and industry advancement. What You’ll Learn: Why more shop owners are bringing trainers directly into their facilities for personalized, hands-on educationHow the flat-rate pay system can unintentionally discourage accurate diagnostics and proper repairsThe critical importance of vehicle calibrations and why skipping them creates major safety concernsA real-world story of how Keith and Liz challenged a dealership that failed to properly calibrate a vehicle after repairsHow Keith’s mobile diagnostics team operates as the “Navy SEALs” of the automotive industry, tackling the most complex repair challengesThe productivity systems, AI tools, and organizational habits that Keith and Liz use to manage multiple businesses and family responsibilitiesTheir perspective on partnership, marriage, and entrepreneurship, including why success is rarely a perfect 50/50 splitUpdates from the NASTF board, including a new mobile app designed to simplify D1 security processes This episode is a powerful reminder that professionalism in the automotive industry extends far beyond fixing vehicles. It requires continuous education, accountability, clear communication, and a commitment to doing the job correctly, even when it’s difficult or inconvenient. Keith and Liz Perkins demonstrate how technical excellence, strong systems, and true partnership can create lasting impact both inside and outside the shop. TST Big Event: https://tstseminars.org/ Liz and Keith Perkins, Previous episode HERE. L1 Automotive: https://www.l1diagnostics.com/ L1 Automotive Training: https://l1training.com/ Thanks to our Partner, NAPA TRACS *]:pointer-events-auto scroll-mt-[calc(var(--header-height)+min(200px,max(70px,20svh)))]" dir="auto" data-turn-id="request-WEB:49a777bf-d263-4496-bf0b-2eb3a46ac96a-15" data-testid="conversation-turn-32" data-scroll-anchor="true" data-turn="assistant"> NAPA TRACS will move your shop into the SMS fast lane with onsite training and six days a week of support and local representation. Find NAPA TRACS on the Web at http://napatracs.com/ Thanks to our Partner, Today's Class Optimize training with Today's Class: In just 5 minutes daily, boost knowledge retention and improve team performance. Find Today's Class on the web at https://www.todaysclass.com/ Thanks to our Partner, KUKUI Stop juggling multiple marketing tools. KUKUI’s integrated platform delivers 4x better website conversions, automated follow-up, and real-time ROI tracking. Get industry-leading customer support with KUKUI at https://www.kukui.com/ Thanks to our Partner, Pit Crew Loyalty You’re probably tired of chasing new customers who never return. We understand. Pit Crew Loyalty ends the one-and-done cycle, turning first visits into lasting, reliable revenue at https://www.pitcrewloyalty.com/ Connect with the Podcast: ...

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Repair Shop ReckoningApril 17 · 38 min

Stop Guessing & Start Controlling: Budget vs P & L

In this episode of Repair Shop Reckoning, Kevin takes the conversation beyond just understanding your numbers and gets into what actually separates profitable shops from the ones constantly feeling the squeeze. Most shop owners look at their P&L...

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Changing the Industry PodcastApril 13 · 55 min

Episode 264 - The Value of Diagnostics, Hands-On Classes, & Finding Happiness With Tim Iezzi & Ira Waldman

Don't get to the end of this year wishing you had taken action to change your business and your life.Click here to schedule a free discovery call for your business: https://geni.us/IFORABEDon't miss an upcoming event with The Institute: https://geni.us/InstituteEvents2026Shop-Ware gives you the tools to provide your shop with everything needed to become optimally profitable.Click here to schedule a free demo: https://geni.us/Shop-Ware-Free-MonthTransform your shop's marketing with the best in the automotive industry, Shop Marketing Pros!Get a free audit of your shop's current marketing by clicking here: https://geni.us/ShopMarketingProsShop owners, are you ready to simplify your business operations? Meet 360 Payments, your one-stop solution for effortless payment processing.Imagine this—no more juggling receipts, staplers, or endless paperwork. With 360 Payments, you get everything integrated into a single, sleek digital platform.Simplify payments. Streamline operations. Check out 360payments.com today!In this episode, Lucas Underwood and David Roman are joined by Ira Waldman and Tim Iezzi, who share their experiences with technical training and diagnostics in the automotive industry. Ira Waldman explains the value of comprehensive accident investigations and how data pulled from vehicles is increasingly crucial for liability and repairs. Tim Iezzi and Ira Waldman detail their hands-on training classes, emphasizing the importance of practicing with equipment to build real skills. Throughout the conversation, the group discusses challenges facing trainers—including undervaluation and barriers to fair compensation—while reflecting on what true success looks like in the industry.00:00 Consulting work and accident investigations04:58 Calibration data and liability concerns08:48 Lab scope training launch11:32 Practicing lab scope basics15:25 Common mistakes using scopes19:03 Importance of planning and tools20:10 Teaching procedural oil change steps24:46 Improving technician education27:00 Training value and budget changes32:48 Challenges faced by fitness trainers36:16 Launching the training company39:46 Impact of low-cost car markets41:29 Covid’s impact on auto repairs47:30 Troubleshooting equipment issues50:25 Defining personal success52:21 Interviewing successful people54:28 Thanking the audience

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Questions answered on comebacks & quality control

Practical questions on comebacks & quality control, answered across the catalog — each linked to the episode it came from.

What should I do if I suspect a part is faulty after installation?: If you suspect a part is faulty, double-check the installation and ensure it matches the specifications. If the issue persists, consider replacing the part with a different brand or contacting the supplier for a warranty claim.
How can I improve my diagnostic skills as a technician?: Improving diagnostic skills involves continuous learning, hands-on experience, and seeking mentorship from more experienced technicians. Utilizing resources like online courses and technical manuals can also be beneficial.
What are the benefits of having a mentor in the automotive industry?: A mentor can provide guidance, share valuable experiences, and help you navigate challenges in your career. They can also offer insights into best practices and help you develop your skills more effectively.
What is Effective Labor Rate (ELR)?: ELR is the actual amount charged to customers for labor divided by the total hours billed. It reflects how effectively a shop is charging for labor.
How can I improve my shop's ELR?: Start by tracking billable hours accurately and ensuring that all technician time is charged appropriately. Regular audits of repair orders can help identify gaps.
Why is ELR important for shop profitability?: A higher ELR means more revenue generated from labor, which can significantly impact overall profitability and help cover rising technician wages.
How many hours of training should technicians complete each year?: Technicians should aim for a minimum of 40 hours of training annually, but more is encouraged to stay updated with industry changes.
What is the benefit of a systematic approach to diagnostics?: A systematic approach helps technicians efficiently narrow down issues, reducing diagnostic time and improving accuracy in repairs.
How can shop owners support their technicians' education?: Shop owners can support education by providing time for training, attending classes with their technicians, and creating a culture that values continuous learning.
What is the difference between calibration and programming in ADAS?: Calibration refers to adjusting the system to ensure it functions correctly, while programming involves updating or installing software in the vehicle's modules.
Why is it important to follow OEM procedures for ADAS?: Following OEM procedures ensures that the vehicle's safety systems operate as intended, reducing the risk of accidents and legal issues.
How can shop owners effectively communicate the need for ADAS calibrations to customers?: Shop owners should explain the importance of calibrations for safety and reliability, using clear language and providing examples of potential risks if not performed.
What are the 5 C's of writing a repair order?: The 5 C's are: Complaint, Confirmation, Cause, Cure, and Confirmation of the Cure. Each step is essential for clear communication and effective repairs.
How can I improve communication between service advisors and technicians?: Encourage service advisors to ask detailed questions and document customer complaints thoroughly, ensuring technicians have all necessary information to diagnose and repair vehicles effectively.
Why is proper documentation important in a repair order?: Proper documentation serves as a legally binding record that protects the shop from liability and helps clarify the work done, which is crucial if issues arise later.
What are the key challenges service advisors face?: Service advisors often deal with difficult customer interactions and must effectively communicate technical issues in a way that customers can understand.
How can technicians improve their diagnostic skills?: Technicians should focus on mastering the fundamentals and seek training that addresses their specific weaknesses rather than just their interests.
Why is communication important in a shop environment?: Clear communication ensures that service advisors can accurately convey diagnostic information to customers, which helps in building trust and improving service outcomes.
What should I do if a customer wants to bypass safety systems?: It's important to explain the risks involved and that bypassing safety systems can lead to dangerous situations. Always prioritize safety and refuse to perform such modifications.
How can I effectively communicate repair costs to customers?: Be transparent about the diagnostic process and provide a detailed breakdown of costs. Customers appreciate understanding what they are paying for and why.
What is the best way to handle unexpected repairs during a job?: Always inform the customer immediately if additional repairs are needed, explaining the reasons and costs involved. This keeps them in the loop and maintains trust.
What should I consider when buying tools as a professional mechanic?: Invest in professional-grade tools that enhance your efficiency and effectiveness in the shop, rather than settling for consumer-grade options.
How can a shop owner improve technician retention?: Creating a supportive work culture where employees feel appreciated and valued can significantly enhance retention rates among technicians.
What is the importance of diagnostic training for technicians?: Diagnostic training is essential for technicians to develop a systematic approach to troubleshooting, which helps in accurately identifying and resolving vehicle issues.

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